reasons why you want or dont want sins in ur squad
Somebody - Raging Tide
Posts: 112 Arc User
Ok, I'm still wondering after behind denied for many many squads, why would you want or not want a sin in your squad?
I'm not talking about crappy ones that don't know how to play there class. but just the regular sins that actually do know what do to and what not to do.
discuss
I'm not talking about crappy ones that don't know how to play there class. but just the regular sins that actually do know what do to and what not to do.
discuss
Post edited by Somebody - Raging Tide on
0
Comments
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because spot is reserved already for other classes?lol
just kidding.
i usually solo bh's and hh's with my hubby so b:surrender
but if i play cleric,and sin is in bh squad that would be problem at some bosses.
like in 69,melee classes u always have to heal separated,besides spamming iron on tank and party heal for others when boss aoe,u need to worry about LA melee b:shutup0 -
Actually i think it quiet simple :
On aoe boss that has hurt phy damage they can died easily. (don't say use bow in that case, any class can use bow and only archer can has extra range)
As melee you were squishy, so even if the aoe not so strong cleric may have to focus on heal you too.
The skill and combo tend to steal agroo, even if you not mean it. (usually not happen on low to mid lv)
The last one but rare is the squad leader or member of the squad don't know your capability and just decide to ask you to leave or impolitely reject you.
I don't reject people on my squad, as long they know what they doing in squad. b:bye
Forget : and of course if the squad already has tank and cleric xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
i still laugh my **** off at clerics that are only able to heal one person at a time.. l2play please..0
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i still laugh my **** off at clerics that are only able to heal one person at a time..
hmm not really,they need to heal bms too,but bm's are not LA
with 2 classes healing separated,and party heal for others so as purify for tank IF boss debuffed,i dont think they should be worried about another LA melee..cuz it will be much easier for him to die,then bm or barb..would end up probably healing that sin more then any1 else.
even tho sin could use pots and step back sometimes,but i am just saying as one of explanation why sins are not wanted in squads as much as other classes.0 -
i still laugh my **** off at clerics that are only able to heal one person at a time.. l2play please..
^ What /NiKi say . .
Going to reply post but already ninjaed by /NiKi b:sad
Assassin is the only melee la by default. b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »On aoe boss that has hurt phy damage they can died easily. (don't say use bow in that case, any class can use bow and only archer can has extra range)
well if people are a little smart they would remember the bloodpaint of a sin can give a little extra HP to barb/bm (not much but it helps) and with the sin DD speed i can keep my HP up high enough with small AOE, i can survive gaurnob AOE in 69, polearm is a b*tch though.
also for rebirth/FC people tend to not want us but never think about the fact we have AOE amp dmg like bm's do. and we can use it every 30sec even though it's 2spark skill. this would greatly increase kill rate for the wiz + archer AOE. for bosses our ribstrike causes the boss to slow down by 50% for 30 sec with 8sec cooldown. this already proved yesterday when i was with a veno in TT2-2 he was able to tank the boss cause of that skill.
and off course the bloodpaint will help a lot on BM AOE attacks. (5k dmg = 20hp regen * amount of mobs, that spikes fast)0 -
i didnt have any hard time healing a sin that got aggro dunno what u guys invite.0
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well like i said i am soloing all with my hubby so i cant say for sure.
i didnt pt with any yet and i doubt i would refuse one just cuz of class,
but i think this would be one of explanations why people dont want sins in party..
i think they rather do it with old classes.
tank,cleric,veno for pull,bm as HA melee DD,archer and mage as ranged DD..
works probably better then LA melee DD on some bosses. b:surrender
also u have to remember sins are new class,theres alot of them who oracled up and probably dont know how to survive all those bosses,messed up some bh's and now people because of bad experience refuse other sins.0 -
Hmm, some remarks :
First off, sins might be LA, but with decent gear and sharded with garnets the Pdef is quite nice, so a Patk aoe isn't that bad for a sin.
Second, even being LA, the Elemental def is also quite balanced.
Third, any decent sin will know NOT to take aggro on a boss, so will act accordingly. With bloodpaint on the sin will do good damage doing regular attacks AND heal himself from any aoe.
Fourth, "deaden nerves". It lasts for 2 minutes and i always use it in a bossfight. It's gods gift for sins imo.
Lastly, sins can do their part in any squad. If i see a veno taking aggro, or a psy or whiz because of their high crits, i can tele to them fast and silence the mobs or take aggro myself. Usually this works very well and my Pdef is a lot better then an arcane user.
A good sin knows how to act in certain situations, in my opinion they are the "buffer" between life & death for squishy classes, add to the HP of BM's and barbs, are very good DD's and if played well, add to the squad.
Also, in my opinion, ANY melee class in instances should be charmed. It not only saves your own life, but takes some pressure off the clerics in case something goes wrong. And be honest, charms are worth their price.0 -
Having used both an archer and a sin (first 2 toons, both 49 so far) I have to say that the sin can edge out the archer utility-wise so far. Sure archers do have their fair share of skills/buffs they can throw on the table, but from what I've seen so far, Sins are more practical. For example, I myself value bloodpaint much more than the evade buff from archer.
Slowing attack rate of the enemy, immobilizing/silencing any run-away mobs that aggro on party members, giving that slight healing buffer with bloodpaint, the damage sins do, I have to say that I do enjoy my sin much more and think it has more to offer.
And any sin should at least have the wits to figure out that with their damage they have to approach a boss encounter like an archer. Archers WILL grab aggro unless they sit back and let the tanks deal the first 10-20% of damage. I'll hit the mob with Rib Strike first, then sit back until it wears off, much as an archer will do with sharpened tooth arrow.
Like I said, I do think sins have something to offer. The biggest reason I can think of for rejecting sins is that people are comfy with what they have seen that works, and will just repeat the same technique over and over. It's the people that came up with those techniques in the first place that will probably go through the effort of coming up with new ways to do things.
Edit - am I saying that sins should replace archer? Hell no! I still think archers are great squad members. I'm just saying the sins can offer a little more, with the trade-off that they do face higher risk than the archer.0 -
I'm still waiting to see these bosses that Sins have to have a bow for to survive. Nob and Pole AoE me for 800-1.5k with full party buffs. I haven't had problems with either of them since I ran my weapon token quest at 60 (then they hurt...bad). 1-3 armor boss may tick my charm, but he only casts every 10 seconds and is easily interruptable, so I don't mind.
Really, where is this uberpowerful demigod of a boss that's supposed to decimate Assassins so bad they can't even be expected to stay in melee range?0 -
reason i dont like sins in squad is,
they stealth mode all the way to the boss and go afk to make a cup of tea wile the rest of the squad kills all the mobs and finally reachies the boss
on a serious note, never had a sin in squad for bhs that i can remember
but id think nob and poles aoe could be nasty to them. range people aare alright its mostly only the magic aoe that hits them but for sins they gotta put up with the phys and magic aoe, and both will most likely hurt them bad which could be a problem.0 -
BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »reason i dont like sins in squad is,
they stealth mode all the way to the boss and go afk to make a cup of tea wile the rest of the squad kills all the mobs and finally reachies the boss
on a serious note, never had a sin in squad for bhs that i can remember
but id think nob and poles aoe could be nasty to them. range people aare alright its mostly only the magic aoe that hits them but for sins they gotta put up with the phys and magic aoe, and both will most likely hurt them bad which could be a problem.
those sins you're squaded with are real "asses" -_-
whenever i'm in bh i do my fair share, and never stealth off on my own. i usually protect the clerics from stray mobs, and/or take away their heal aggro and help DD b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
StretchIt - Harshlands wrote: »those sins you're squaded with are real "asses" -_-
whenever i'm in bh i do my fair share, and never stealth off on my own. i usually protect the clerics from stray mobs, and/or take away their heal aggro and help DD b:cute
The sins I see are usually ahead of the squad. Killing mobs off before even squad has managed to catch up and just keeps going.
They are the next kamikaze BMs or Barbs that rushes up to mobs before a cleric can catch up?
No sins that I have squaded with stays with the Cleric. Archers are usually the one with them.
Reason for not squading with sins:
1. Not leader
2. abundance of other classes needing BH (more comfortable with old school classes)
Also, since sins being LA, they could technically tank bosses just as well, if nor better than an archer. But I see them unwilling to tank bh 59 bosses and giving lame excuses like "i will die".
If I can tank it, a LA sin sure can.0 -
I guess just wait until everyone adapt to what assassin can do in squad and what they do to cover their weakness. b:pleased
Lets hope it will happen soon, so we all can have happy squad again.
But what cannot be changed is those real ****** assassin. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »The sins I see are usually ahead of the squad. Killing mobs off before even squad has managed to catch up and just keeps going.
They are the next kamikaze BMs or Barbs that rushes up to mobs before a cleric can catch up?
No sins that I have squaded with stays with the Cleric. Archers are usually the one with them.
Reason for not squading with sins:
1. Not leader
2. abundance of other classes needing BH (more comfortable with old school classes)
Also, since sins being LA, they could technically tank bosses just as well, if nor better than an archer. But I see them unwilling to tank bh 59 bosses and giving lame excuses like "i will die".
If I can tank it, a LA sin sure can.
IDK what sins your squading with.. but being a sin myself... i never run ahead of my squad.. and if i do.. its with a cleric behind me so we can kill mobs while we wait for someone to get back into the dungeon...so... if your gonna judge all sins based off of some very incompetent sins u squaded with then plz just RAGE-Quit now...cuz there are plenty of sins in the game now..0 -
Zacchaeus - Dreamweaver wrote: »IDK what sins your squading with.. but being a sin myself... i never run ahead of my squad.. and if i do.. its with a cleric behind me so we can kill mobs while we wait for someone to get back into the dungeon...so... if your gonna judge all sins based off of some very incompetent sins u squaded with then plz just RAGE-Quit now...cuz there are plenty of sins in the game now..
Well said. :O
In all the BH/FB runs I've done, I've never run ahead, due to the fact that I probably couldn't survive without a cleric. Don't know how the other sin of your quoted post did though :S. If it was a low lvl fb then sure, running ahead saves a lot of time and means the low lvl doesn't need to almost die due to simple mistakes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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Zacchaeus - Dreamweaver wrote: »IDK what sins your squading with.. but being a sin myself... i never run ahead of my squad.. and if i do.. its with a cleric behind me so we can kill mobs while we wait for someone to get back into the dungeon...so... if your gonna judge all sins based off of some very incompetent sins u squaded with then plz just RAGE-Quit now...cuz there are plenty of sins in the game now..
I'm not the only one in this thread that has something negative to say about sins.
Besides, at my level, there aren't alot of sins that made it that far, so it isn't a problem.
Plenty of sins? lulz...
no..i won't rage-quit, but will just keep a distance away from potential failz sins.Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »Well said. :O
In all the BH/FB runs I've done, I've never run ahead, due to the fact that I probably couldn't survive without a cleric. Don't know how the other sin of your quoted post did though :S. If it was a low lvl fb then sure, running ahead saves a lot of time and means the low lvl doesn't need to almost die due to simple mistakes.
The problem is, your class can sure survive those mini drake mobs pretty well in BH 59 and that's the only path section that sins always run ahead of others. Given time, I sure the sin could clear the rest of the way into drake lair.
So if these sins could survive, I do not see why you can't.
And I sure can't understand why they refuse to tank drake. failz sins ftw?
Also, high levels running ahead of the squad usually means they are dodging the mob instead of clearing it.Especially for patrol mobs, which the lowbie will have a high chance of aggro-ing if they are doing it the first time.0 -
Sins are hands down the best squad DD class in the game. Why? Because we can reset our aggro with Shadow Escape. While I haven't read anything that officially states this resets aggro, I know that it does. As long as I can take 2 hits from the boss, I can go all out, pull aggro, go all out and never pull aggro a second time, atleast in a BH. If my archer pulls aggro, he dies, at least at my level. I pull aggro all the time, I've died once because of this, but that was more due to me not paying attention at the time (stupid wife).
As soon as someone parties with a good sin, they see there potential. I have made some people go out and start a sin. Its a fun class to play, play it well and we will get a good name.0 -
D/S - Heavens Tear wrote: »Sins are hands down the best squad DD class in the game. Why? Because we can reset our aggro with Shadow Escape. While I haven't read anything that officially states this resets aggro, I know that it does. As long as I can take 2 hits from the boss, I can go all out, pull aggro, go all out and never pull aggro a second time, atleast in a BH. If my archer pulls aggro, he dies, at least at my level. I pull aggro all the time, I've died once because of this, but that was more due to me not paying attention at the time (stupid wife).
As soon as someone parties with a good sin, they see there potential. I have made some people go out and start a sin. Its a fun class to play, play it well and we will get a good name.
this wont work for TT bosses or any other boss with 150 level. it will work in your FB/BH thoughI hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington0 -
Trawne - Lost City wrote: »this wont work for TT bosses or any other boss with 150 level. it will work in your FB/BH though
This is true, like other classes, you do have to adjust your playing style depending on the bosses you fight. When I TT, I normally only play with a good barb, which typically wont lose aggro. In BH, I normally find random squads and feel that I have more chances of surviving then other DD classes.
I'll retract my statement, for a lot of bosses, sins are the best DD class in the game. In the end though, my vote is still for wizzies for purest DD class, but I enjoy playing as a Sin.0 -
D/S - Heavens Tear wrote: »This is true, like other classes, you do have to adjust your playing style depending on the bosses you fight. When I TT, I normally only play with a good barb, which typically wont lose aggro. In BH, I normally find random squads and feel that I have more chances of surviving then other DD classes.
I'll retract my statement, for a lot of bosses, sins are the best DD class in the game. In the end though, my vote is still for wizzies for purest DD class, but I enjoy playing as a Sin.
If you are the best DD, then archers are officially replaced.
Also, you do not have STA to bring down the boss HP, how's that gonna make you the best DD?
In most cases, you pull aggro, you die. Or being hit by Boss AOE.
Soon, you will feel the pain being in range of your BH 69 Bosses.
I only got hit by a type of AOE. Bow-sins and dagger sins are gonna be hit by both.0 -
D/S - Heavens Tear wrote: »This is true, like other classes, you do have to adjust your playing style depending on the bosses you fight. When I TT, I normally only play with a good barb, which typically wont lose aggro. In BH, I normally find random squads and feel that I have more chances of surviving then other DD classes.
I'll retract my statement, for a lot of bosses, sins are the best DD class in the game. In the end though, my vote is still for wizzies for purest DD class, but I enjoy playing as a Sin.
well i can assure u alot of people wouldnt take sin to hh in 2-2 or 2-3,for astral boss.
better take ranged DD class,like mage or archer then melee DD which will aggro all mobs which boss spawns. b:surrender
then 1st boss in 3-1 aoe on melee classes,usually if herc tanks,dont need for cleric,or cleric can dd,if sin is in pt,he will have to spam heal..theres couple of more bosses but u will see by ur self through lvls.
still,not an excuse why people refuse sins for bh's..maybe they just prefer old classes for now,till that dont change all u can do is find ur self a good faction and do bh's with them.0 -
/NiKi - Lost City wrote: »well i can assure u alot of people wouldnt take sin to hh in 2-2 or 2-3,for astral boss.
better take ranged DD class,like mage or archer then melee DD which will aggro all mobs which boss spawns. b:surrender
then 1st boss in 3-1 aoe on melee classes,usually if herc tanks,dont need for cleric,or cleric can dd,if sin is in pt,he will have to spam heal..theres couple of more bosses but u will see by ur self through lvls.
still,not an excuse why people refuse sins for bh's..maybe they just prefer old classes for now,till that dont change all u can do is find ur self a good faction and do bh's with them.
my sin was never refused for bhs o.O, true i stopped leveling at 66, but from 40 to 66 i was never refused to go on a bounty hunter and i did 90% of them with randoms i found in the middle of arch0 -
Giodia, regarding 51 fb/bh
at that level range even with **** gear fushima is no issue, rankar can still be survived past the AoE. Drake on the other hand, while I had done it with a good cleric, the fact of the matter there is that he is a physical boss, he has an AoE, and he also has a curse debuff which unchecked hurts like hell.
BH59
Never once had an issue tanking here, had a higher survival rate than my bm's most of the time, dunno if they had no idea about marrow ... but keep in mind that those bosses all have a magical attack that can be tanked by any arcane user with enough hp to soak and they only swap to phys if up close.
BH69
Pyro - easy
Garunob- can't be tank, can survive a few hits if you steal though
Cons. Pole - He just sucks, the aoe w/o very good gear is a problem, however with a hp charm it's negligible, you just take the ticks and get over it.
TT 1-3
Dimentora is the only boss that is a pain in the **** as bloodpaint and pots is not comfy
TT 2-x
Nothing bad in here really, if with a full ranged DD party, pull out a bow and get your **** up the chain to max dist, nothing difficult there.
TT 3-1
This place is hilariously fun, nothing here to worry about really and luring around corners when your veno is having issues with walls and distances comes in handy.I can see what you see not,
Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone,
Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be,
Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind,
Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »...
Also, since sins being LA, they could technically tank bosses just as well, if nor better than an archer. But I see them unwilling to tank bh 59 bosses and giving lame excuses like "i will die".
...
Here's something to think about in general Archer tank vs Assassin tanking. This might not necessarily apply to FB59.
The bosses Archer usually tanks are more favourable to a squad because the bosses have weaker Magical Attacks than Physical Attacks.
If you make an Archer tank the usual "favourable" bosses in melee, all hell breaks loose because LA Archers die to melee boss hits quite easily.
The only reason we can tank is because LA has "ok" magic resistance and bosses cast magic at range. Assassins would have to use a ranged weapon to be able to tank what an Archer traditionally can. LA users have really really bad pdef. This could be countered by heavily refining 4 pdef ornaments.
With that said though, I'm sure there are a few gear choices which allow them to tank bosses at melee (similar to Archers going fists and being able to tank the melee hits).0 -
Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »TT 2-x
Nothing bad in here really, if with a full ranged DD party, pull out a bow and get your **** up the chain to max dist, nothing difficult there.
TT 3-1
This place is hilariously fun, nothing here to worry about really and luring around corners when your veno is having issues with walls and distances comes in handy.
yup 3-1 is easy,only 1st boss does aoe on melee classes which isnt really nice for someone being LA.
pots and charm can help,or cleric healing u.
all can be done with sins too if squad is willing to try,just saying people would rather pick mage or archer since they already know theirs abilities in parties then worry will sin use a bow or not.0 -
Reason why I don't like to squad with sins and psychics in BH? Idiots who can't control their ****ing damage. Yeah, there's other idiots who play other classes who steal aggro but I've noticed that TB players seem to be very bad at it.
7/10 (this is an estimate) of sins I've squaded with somehow believe that 'holding back' means sparking and attacking the boss at the beginning.
Half the sins I've squaded with tried to show off by using stealth and walking into a group of mobs. Funny...until the dumbass runs out of MP and brings all his new friends over to the squad.
A frighteningly large number of psychics I've been in squads with seem to think they're job is rip aggro from whoever happens to be tanking then running around in circles letting the boss's AoE (if it has one) wipe out the squishies.
Yes, I know that there are other failures who play other classes (a certain archer who used barrage when my pet was tanking and a BM who chased after my pet when I was luring Zimo come to mind) but they're not as numerous as the failures who play TBs. It's come to the point that I'm starting to just expect any TB I'm in a squad with to do something stupid and I'm pleasantly surprised (read: shocked) whenever I meet one who actually knows what the hell he/she's doing.This alt has been brought to you by lkurei - Harshlands.
I'm a guy. b:sad
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] lol
'I think most of us f2p players stopped caring about buying gold once the ani packs came in, bent the gold market over a chair and did unspeakable things to it. >_>' Miugre - Heavens Tear0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »If you are the best DD, then archers are officially replaced.
I never said this, but an archer cant reset aggro, neither can a wizzie and for that reason alone, sins can do more damage because we dont have to gimp ourselves. I was always scared to do damage as an archer for a lot of bosses, not with my sin.
STA is an amazing skill, no doubt. We dont have anything that comes close.
Pull aggro and die? Doesnt happen that way for me. But I do have good gear and charms at all times, so maybe thats why. Sin is an expensive class imo, need great gear to be LA melee, or atleast to do it well.
I did Nob and Pole during my FB, they did tick my charm but not all that bad and that was at lvl 69.
I have done up to TT 2-3 without any problems, but those were great squads.
Not trying to turn this into Sin vs other dd classes. Just saying, being able to reset aggro during a fight is huge for total damage output, on the bosses that arent ? lvl that is. Will sins replace archers? Of course not. Archers and sins go great together in a party.0 -
VerenKaunis - Dreamweaver wrote: »Reason why I don't like to squad with sins and psychics in BH? Idiots who can't control their ****ing damage. Yeah, there's other idiots who play other classes who steal aggro but I've noticed that TB players seem to be very bad at it.
7/10 (this is an estimate) of sins I've squaded with somehow believe that 'holding back' means sparking and attacking the boss at the beginning.
Half the sins I've squaded with tried to show off by using stealth and walking into a group of mobs. Funny...until the dumbass runs out of MP and brings all his new friends over to the squad.
A frighteningly large number of psychics I've been in squads with seem to think they're job is rip aggro from whoever happens to be tanking then running around in circles letting the boss's AoE (if it has one) wipe out the squishies.
Yes, I know that there are other failures who play other classes (a certain archer who used barrage when my pet was tanking and a BM who chased after my pet when I was luring Zimo come to mind) but they're not as numerous as the failures who play TBs. It's come to the point that I'm starting to just expect any TB I'm in a squad with to do something stupid and I'm pleasantly surprised (read: shocked) whenever I meet one who actually knows what the hell he/she's doing.
come to raging tide server i haven't caused much squad wipes (i caused some but that was in the early days xD) 0
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