Archer replaced by Assassin?

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

archer DPS

sin spike

/ thread

nope not rly. nice try tho

FadeDaggers - Lost City

Chronos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Archers can kill their target before it lands a hit on them: Same with Assassins(yes we can use bows too).

Assassins take hits: LOL pretty sure every class can take hits

Archers have longer range: Again, assassins can use bows.

archers can indeed kill a mob of their own lvl before they reach them if they are 4x and have a decent weapon but most people dont at 4x and if the archer gets hit it seems to do greater damage on my 35 archer then on my 34 sin

assassin indeed takes 2 hits each monster if u know what ur doing maybe 1
wich is on higher lvls more than the archer will

yes the archers indeed have longer range because of their skill that gives u 1m extra range each lvl u upgrade it

so archers wont be replaced but there is a new class that is pretty damn good in PvP and even PvE

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

I find it funny how archers actually are flocking to this thread. Just to retort back that their big and tough. But actually need to type it out cause they worry about their rep. (seriously a non worthwhile thread they dont even look at) And yeah i post here cause i have a mid lvl sin, not to beat down and troll other class forums.

Its a sin forum, of course theres gonna be talk like this.

XXSayaXx - Lost City

blah blah blah stop b!tchin at me sayin i killed orical noobs. so what if u orical just faster way to lvl. doesnt mean they r ******* and dnt know how play the character. just find me ingame with ur sin see if u can kill a archer

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

XXSayaXx - Lost City wrote: »

blah blah blah stop b!tchin at me sayin i killed orical noobs. so what if u orical just faster way to lvl. doesnt mean they r ******* and dnt know how play the character. just find me ingame with ur sin see if u can kill a archer

i killed 10 archers already... 3 of which were 10 lvls higher then me tyvmb:victory just because u killed one oraclaler doesnt mean jack **** for the entire assassin population.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i killed 10 archers already... 3 of which were 10 lvls higher then me tyvmb:victory just because u killed one oraclaler doesnt mean jack **** for the entire assassin population.

watcha expect from a noob lol

HollowMartyr - Raging Tide

One thing nobody can argue is that all the older classes have a heckuva lot more experience and knowledge base backing them vs the two new classes...Regardless of how well anyone thinks they know their Assassin/Psychic...They've only been out a week compared to the years the other classes have been out...Let's give the new classes players a bit of time to catch up and we'll see their true potential.

THEN...We can remake this kind of thread XD Right now it isn't a fair fight.

Bardolph - Harshlands

Every class can equip a bow.

Thread fails.

Brigid - Harshlands

Bardolph - Harshlands wrote: »

Every class can equip a bow.

Only by using some crazy variant build. Assassins can equip a bow without restatting or following a nonstandard build.

Isala - Sanctuary

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Only by using some crazy variant build. Assassins can equip a bow without restatting or following a nonstandard build.

He didn't say a bow your level. Just a bow. Which is true. Either way, I don't know about you, but I don't think Archers are going to be replaced. One reason. Aggro vs location. An archer screws up and gets aggro, the mob has to move to him to melee, or cast instead, giving time to fix the problem. An assassin gets aggro, the mob simply swats him down. Period. You guys both have about the same survivability, so you might take one hit, but where as the Archer has a few seconds between hits, the Assassin can get WTFPWNed before the cleric can even react. Now, together, on the other hand, they might become a beautiful combo. But, of course... Nobody wants to think about that route. :P

Limeball - Heavens Tear

Archers are always going to keep their place in zhen and RB ect. Archers still get barrage. Assasins have only one aoe and from the description, it dosen't last forever until our mana runs out.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

He didn't say a bow your level. Just a bow. Which is true. Either way, I don't know about you, but I don't think Archers are going to be replaced. One reason. Aggro vs location. An archer screws up and gets aggro, the mob has to move to him to melee, or cast instead, giving time to fix the problem. An assassin gets aggro, the mob simply swats him down. Period. You guys both have about the same survivability, so you might take one hit, but where as the Archer has a few seconds between hits, the Assassin can get WTFPWNed before the cleric can even react. Now, together, on the other hand, they might become a beautiful combo. But, of course... Nobody wants to think about that route. :P

Here is the experience from a cleric. Archers, not assassins will tend to get WTFPWned instead. Why? Because it is easier to heal stagnant close melee as opposed to ranged. 9 out of 10 times when I see archers they put in the max distance between them and the mob/boss, at this point ironheart does not even reach. When they get aggro guess what they do? They run even further…. GL with them getting any heals. A cleric should know who will get POSSIBLE aggro and it is always possible to rotate heals between 1-3pple easily. IF they are in range.

Reane - Sanctuary

To op, if you can find another class that can reduce a boss's hp by 20% in 30 seconds, then maybe archers have been replaced. im yet to see that though...

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

Veno's.b:victory

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Reane - Sanctuary wrote: »

To op, if you can find another class that can reduce a boss's hp by 20% in 30 seconds, then maybe archers have been replaced. im yet to see that though...

they do have a skill that can probably make up for that dmg wise. its a dmg increaser stacks with the BMs orange worm aoe skill(rofl)

Brigid - Harshlands

By no means do I think Archers can be replaced by assassins. Being able to knock off 10-15% (more for Sage/Demon) right off the bat, followed by being one of if not the highest-damage dealing classes, means they account for a very large fraction of a boss's HP. And the Assassin damage increase skill does NOT stack with Extreme Poison, which can be used more often and by any class.

As for archers getting WTFPwned, that's a rather bad archer. Or possibly a bad cleric. Generally, the archer is going to be standing near the cleric, unless for some silly reason the cleric is standing next to the tank.

Also, an archer's best hope of survival if they pull aggro isn't heals or running, most of the time. Heals don't matter when we die in 2-3 hits at most anyway, and it's very tough to get outside of spell range in 1 second. It's in popping Wings of Grace (resist 1, maybe 2 hits, and reduce damage of next few), Winged Shell (reduce another hit, maybe 2, to 20% damage), Single Sparking (resist 1 hit, if timed right), and hoping to god that the tank has managed to regain aggro.

On the other hand, an Assassin can survive the killing blow with that skill of theirs and force stealth to get away and heal. Basically both classes have skills that if used right, can help survive an aggro steal.

And finally, most ranged bosses' attacks are both slower and weaker than their melee attack. The only exceptions are the physical ranged bosses like Fushma, Luminoc Architect, Rattus, and Stygean. Thus, an archer will take less damage in an equal amount of time.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

By no means do I think Archers can be replaced by assassins. Being able to knock off 10-15% (more for Sage/Demon) right off the bat, followed by being one of if not the highest-damage dealing classes, means they account for a very large fraction of a boss's HP. And the Assassin damage increase skill does NOT stack with Extreme Poison, which can be used more often and by any class.

i dont know if its just amazing or utterly ignorant to put that on as a reason when only like ..what less than 50 cross server? have gotten sin to past lv80 on average. Without Any 3 or so TT80+ weapon i might add, much less a LG weapon to choose from. All they get is a mold dagger IF they are lucky and more than half will not have it.

Brigid - Harshlands

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i dont know if its just amazing or utterly ignorant to put that on as a reason when only like ..what less than 50 cross server? have gotten sin to past lv80 on average. Without Any 3 or so TT80+ weapon i might add, much less a LG weapon to choose from. All they get is a mold dagger IF they are lucky and more than half will not have it.

Hence the words "one of" and "if". It might be that a high level assassin can vastly outdamage an archer of the same level. In fact, with interval stacking it actually seems rather likely.

However, can they actually take full advantage of that damage? Archers already have trouble avoiding aggro when they go all-out. If an Assassin does more damage, then they'll also take aggro, and probably get themselves killed. Archers at least have the advantage of having an extra second or so to react since they're not right next to the boss. Not to mention Sharpened Tooth Arrow, which is aggro-free damage.

Thus, while an assassin may be capable of doing more damage, actually doing so is rather impractical.

Quilue - Sanctuary

o.o wow forums messed up bad on me for some reason

Quilue - Sanctuary

:O quoting phails

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

He didn't say a bow your level. Just a bow. Which is true. Either way, I don't know about you, but I don't think Archers are going to be replaced. One reason. Aggro vs location. An archer screws up and gets aggro, the mob has to move to him to melee, or cast instead, giving time to fix the problem. An assassin gets aggro, the mob simply swats him down. Period. You guys both have about the same survivability, so you might take one hit, but where as the Archer has a few seconds between hits, the Assassin can get WTFPWNed before the cleric can even react. Now, together, on the other hand, they might become a beautiful combo. But, of course... Nobody wants to think about that route. :P

also a point that is not valid at all because ppl do not know how sins work. if they catch aggro from another mob they can simply sleep/immobolize/stun it and then go into stealth mode. then the aggroed mob will loose its aggro and go away.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Here is the experience from a cleric. Archers, not assassins will tend to get WTFPWned instead. Why? Because it is easier to heal stagnant close melee as opposed to ranged. 9 out of 10 times when I see archers they put in the max distance between them and the mob/boss, at this point ironheart does not even reach. When they get aggro guess what they do? They run even further…. GL with them getting any heals. A cleric should know who will get POSSIBLE aggro and it is always possible to rotate heals between 1-3pple easily. IF they are in range.

*grabs Deceptipoo* stand closer to Qui! forget the tank b:chuckleb:cute

besides, your range with ironheart is 27m while archer's attack range is 30-34m. you can reach the tank and the archer at the same time no problem. if an archer bolts upon getting aggro that's just funny

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

*grabs Deceptipoo* stand closer to Qui! forget the tank b:chuckleb:cute

besides, your range with ironheart is 27m while archer's attack range is 30m. you can reach the tank and the archer at the same time no problem. if an archer bolts upon getting aggro that's just funny

seat of torment last bosses >>

Brigid - Harshlands

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

also a point that is not valid at all because ppl do not know how sins work. if they catch aggro from another mob they can simply sleep/immobolize/stun it and then go into stealth mode. then the aggroed mob will loose its aggro and go away.

Bosses generally can't be slept, immobilized, or stunned. I'll give you the force stealth though. In fact, between that and the avoiding-death skill, Assassins ought to be able to survive stealing aggro on a boss just fine if they're paying attention. As I said earlier, both classes have excellent ways to avoid death, though the Assassin's is better.

Admittedly, my experience only goes as far as FB79 and part of FC. Still, I'm having trouble seeing a situation where the archer would want to be so far away. The way I see it, either the cleric is Ironheart spamming, in which case the archer should be fairly close to them, or the cleric is BBing, in which case... the archer should REALLY be close to them.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Hence the words "one of" and "if". It might be that a high level assassin can vastly outdamage an archer of the same level. In fact, with interval stacking it actually seems rather likely.

However, can they actually take full advantage of that damage? Archers already have trouble avoiding aggro when they go all-out. If an Assassin does more damage, then they'll also take aggro, and probably get themselves killed. Archers at least have the advantage of having an extra second or so to react since they're not right next to the boss. Not to mention Sharpened Tooth Arrow, which is aggro-free damage.

Thus, while an assassin may be capable of doing more damage, actually doing so is rather impractical.

nothing in your quote said survivability regarding dmg. aggro yes. :P

Quilue - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

seat of torment last bosses >>

that was cuz Maj couldn't keep aggro with Ast and i wielding fist/claw weapon! we were right up to the boss the second round of deaths b:surprised

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Bosses generally can't be slept, immobilized, or stunned. I'll give you the force stealth though. In fact, between that and the avoiding-death skill, Assassins ought to be able to survive stealing aggro on a boss just fine if they're paying attention. As I said earlier, both classes have excellent ways to avoid death, though the Assassin's is better.

Admittedly, my experience only goes as far as FB79 and part of FC. Still, I'm having trouble seeing a situation where the archer would want to be so far away. The way I see it, either the cleric is Ironheart spamming, in which case the archer should be fairly close to them, or the cleric is BBing, in which case... the archer should REALLY be close to them.

my bad at first i thought u ment aggro from reg mobs not bosses for some reason lol. but ya just force stealth and stuff.

XXSayaXx - Lost City

i dnt get y the low lvls keep calling the high lvl noobs? some1 explain that 2 me pls o.O archers wont be replaced lol all classes r good. all have weaknesses. except pie can never go wrong wit it. PIE HAS NO WEAKNESS mwhaha.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

XXSayaXx - Lost City wrote: »

i dnt get y the low lvls keep calling the high lvl noobs? some1 explain that 2 me pls o.O archers wont be replaced lol all classes r good. all have weaknesses. except pie can never go wrong wit it. PIE HAS NO WEAKNESS mwhaha.

maybe because some high lvls are just idiots? being a high lvl does not make a retardd less ****. idiots will be idiots no matter what lvl they are. the only thing being a high lvl does for u is give more ego to that idiot.

XXSayaXx - Lost City

true lol. but every time a low lvl gets pked there respons is what a noob instantly o.O just makes them self look stupid if all they can do is say noob. most of them say stay here ill get my 90+ char.. i mean come on dnt get me excited like that if ur gonna bs just no funb:sad