Archer replaced by Assassin?

Sazzy - Dreamweaver

Sheyde - Sanctuary wrote: »

*ahem* Mobs that attack with magic skills yup, they keep distance from you, and monsters attacking with melee attack get closest as possible to rip you apart.

Two words... Knockback... Wingspan....

Sazzy - Dreamweaver

Chronos - Raging Tide wrote: »

So, since we've established that Assassin's melee damage=Archer's range damage that means that they're equally good at killing magic and range mobs, since assassins have several skills that lets them get close to their enemies quickly. But, Assassins are much better at killing melee mobs because they can get in some extra hits before the mob gets to them and we've established that Assassin's melee damage+Assassin's sucky range damage>Archer's range damage. So overall, Assassin's are definitely better for PVE.

QUOTE]

I dont see the point here... why do I need to melee? I have knockback and I have wingspan. Both push the target away..... why melee for PVE? And tbh I kill mobs in 2 hits typically so I need neither. b:chuckle

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

I think assassins would do well in PK but not in mass pvp like tw. Archers should still have the edge in pve due to their greater range and there is no replacement for barrage.

warrenbaxter

Poizon - Harshlands wrote: »

Well said..

Ha ha ha, better do it and then try to say it u emo...

go do yr instant tele and catch an archer at its maxed range.

When u do it then open your mouth again.. till then keep yr mouth b:shutup

Twsted - Raging Tide

ok just thought id put my 2cents into this little argument. archers vs sin in pve archers own. if the archer knows wat he/she is doin then a lot of mobs dont even get in one hit. In terms of pking i dont know wth everyones on about "omg my class owns" its ridiculous mind u im only lvl 41 soo i have not done that much pking but i have done a little in my opinion sins have a slight advantage over archers. archers deal massive damage and stun but most likely if the sin will not die during the few secs he is stunned then its a simple matter of telein to the archer imobilizing him and beatin the **** outa him even if the archer does manage to kill him deaden nerves brings him back to life. at least thats what happened to me when i fought archers. except when he killed me before i got in range with my tele b:surrender. still simple fact is that its a new class ppl!! stop ****ting on them and give them a chance to prove themselves!

Lusca - Sanctuary

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol that reminds me of a certain other game that can provide up to 80% Ranged block rate. meaning bow using classes in that game are completly useless in pvp. especially when they trying to take out a class with 140k HP and there only doing at the very most 4k crits which gets blocked 80% of the time b:chuckle

lol would that certain game have the people with 140k hp also able to one hit almost anyone xD?

Quilue - Sanctuary

Chronos - Raging Tide wrote: »

So, since we've established that Assassin's melee damage=Archer's range damage that means that they're equally good at killing magic and range mobs, since assassins have several skills that lets them get close to their enemies quickly. But, Assassins are much better at killing melee mobs because they can get in some extra hits before the mob gets to them and we've established that Assassin's melee damage+Assassin's sucky range damage>Archer's range damage. So overall, Assassin's are definitely better for PVE.

Now, for PVP I really can't tell at the moment, it looks like they're about even, I don't know.

lol no

what part of mob never getting to touch an archer do you not understand? you can get a few extra hits at range good for you, archers just kill it from range. you obviously haven't seen an archer above 5x, when people start seriously grinding due to quests thinning out. being able to shoot at a melee mob then switch to daggers is hilariously not what makes you better than archers at PvE.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol no

what part of mob never getting to touch an archer do you not understand? you can get a few extra hits at range good for you, archers just kill it from range. you obviously haven't seen an archer above 5x, when people start seriously grinding due to quests thinning out. being able to shoot at a melee mob then switch to daggers is hilariously not what makes you better than archers at PvE.

you still got hit when you went fishing >=[

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

XXSayaXx - Lost City wrote: »

blah blah blah. archers r just badass

Sazzy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont see the point here... why do I need to melee? I have knockback and I have wingspan. Both push the target away..... why melee for PVE? And tbh I kill mobs in 2 hits typically so I need neither. b:chuckle

You too must really be bored with your forum, to barge in SIN threads. Most of your posts just seem to belittle this class rather than put up a good debate.

And yeah i come to this thread cause i actually am seriously lvling a sin.

Athena - Raging Tide

Archer =/= Assassin

/thread.

It's not that hard to understand. Holy ****.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Athena - Raging Tide wrote: »

It's not that hard to understand. Holy ****.

b:chuckleb:chuckleb:chuckle

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

i dont understand all these archer ppl saying (a mob dont evin get a 1 hit on me cuz i keel themz be4 they can touch meh!!#!#!@!@!@##$R!) u know that applies for almost all of the range classes in this game especially when it comes to venos right? all the ranged classes in this game have skills that if used right the melee mobs will never touch them. that is the benefit of being ranged and its like that in alot of games.

melee classes get up close in the face of a mob. there GOING to take hits its unavoidable and some ppl actually like going toe to toe with a mob instead of being ranged. so points like that are just stupid in a argument. sins have skills IN ORDER TO GET UP CLOSE in a opponents face. the complete OPPOSITE of what archers/psys have which PUSHES THE TARGET EVEN FURTHER AWAY from u or to get more distance between u and the mob. our teleport skills litteraly teleports us so close to the target till it looks like were fused together lol. and our more advanced teleport stuns the target once we teleport to them so they wont be able to atk back.

so that "i dont get hit cuz im ranged" bs is a useless argument.

Quilue - Sanctuary

its not a useless argument. OP asserts that because he can wield a bow on melee mobs and archers can't wield daggers when melee mobs get close, sins are better than archers in PvE. archers are just stating it doesn't matter that we can't wield daggers at melee range mobs because

we don't need to

it's not being arrogant and bashing the sin class, it's driving some facts into OP's...gill slits

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

And yeah i come to this thread cause i actually am seriously lvling a sin.

i thought that was supposed to be seekrat! b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

its not a useless argument. OP asserts that because he can wield a bow on melee mobs and archers can't wield daggers when melee mobs get close, sins are better than archers in PvE. archers are just stating it doesn't matter that we can't wield daggers at melee range mobs because

we don't need to

it's not being arrogant and bashing the sin class, it's driving some facts into OP's...gill slits

i thought that was supposed to be seekrat! b:chuckle

lol @ gill slits

only few know the name yus its seecret

Shandelzare - Sanctuary

Wizards can heal AND nuke!!! CLERICS GTFO. b:angry

^That's your argument basically.

Periculosul - Raging Tide

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:chuckleb:chuckleb:chuckle

You have something to say or just trolling b:angry


Q: Archer replaced by Assassin?

Phoenix - Dreamweaver

Assassin lacks of self protection , laks of skills useful in Dungeons , or for party. There is no skill of assasin which you can say we need this character in our party without it we cannot do the Dungeon , or the teritorial war .

Assassins get a 60 second buff that completely negates 25% of the hits they don't dodge, as well as a buff which makes them impossible to one-shot. Impossible. Nothing's funnier than seeing a Highland Cleave crit for one damage. This is, of course, aside from their massive dodge rate; a fist/axe BM was testing his tt60 weapons on me earlier (I'm 59 presently), and he missed 40% of his attacks against me. Granted, at 7x+ when people can start equipping dual Misty Forest rings, this benefit will be diminished.

As for Assassin's benefit to a party in a dungeon:

-Assassin's get the same AoE defense debuff that can be found with HF...only it stacks with HF, and Assassins will easily have the chi to use it every 30 seconds (even BMs need fists and interval gear to pop off HF every 30 seconds).
-Assassin's can slow any boss's melee attack by 50%. Not only will this make some previously untouchable bosses Herc-soloable, now, but you just saved your cleric and your barb massive amounts of money on MP and repairs.
-Properly outfitted Assassins will be able to outdamage most anything in the game. Except, maybe, for pimped out Fist BMs.

In regards to Territory Wars, you can think what you want. The clerics healing your Cata Barbs won't see it coming before they die, and with dead clerics your Barbs will be immobilized and locked down as effectively as any stun-locking BM can.

All this awesome is offset by the low HP and defense of an Assassin. With Deaden Nerves down, all but the most pimped out Assassins will be one-shots to a zerk-crit, and we don't get Balance like BMs do to defend against annoying Undine Strikes.

spuitelf

Mizore_P - Sanctuary wrote: »

A pure archer vs a pure sin

Archers can kill their target before it lands a hit on them
Assassins take hits
Archers have longer range

If a assassin and archer have equal stats and gears and they both take a diffrent target at max distance an archer will kill its target faster than the assassin with a bow and the mob maybe wont even hit the archer while it will hit the assassin.

Watch what you say about archers or you'll get pwned by them! b:angry

assa got shadow teleport so archer does not much damage(damage is redused by half when target is near to them!)

spuitelf

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wow, OP is not very smart. a sin cant replace a archer just like a archer cant replace a sin. they both have there own roles and strategies. also, i am HIGHLY against a sin using a bow for ANY reason. they just plain suck with it. u have daggers so use them -_-. ull never learn how to play a sin the correct way if u pretend to be a damn archer ur whole assassin career.

i agree with this! and now:
descussion is over:D

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol would that certain game have the people with 140k hp also able to one hit almost anyone xD?

If I;m right and hes talking about the game I think hes talking about....then I would say yes cos the 140k hp ppl have a skill that does damage proportional to 10% of their max hp they have at the time of casting and never misses and the effect is present for the next 5 normal hits. However after dealing the damage, they lose out like 5% of their hp. That would essentially one shot most classes except the heavily equipped tanks which would probably last 2~3 hits.

Those 140k hp chars are behemoths and usually stand at the backlines as support :P.

However there is also another class which can achieve that much HP or even more with their skills and equips (I think max was like 200k) who would hit with a 300% dmg increase (trust me this hurts when they already have the highest physical damage you can get out there) and at ridiculous speeds (faster than a fist BM over here). This one is like the primary charging class. More of a BM+Barb combined into a single one. More fearful than the previous character since these can one shot ppl without sacrificing on HP

And a surprising thing about these heavy damaging classes is that theyre tanks who can get immense physical and magic defense apart from the atk damage and HP.

But even so, strategically speaking, archers there have a lot more use than what we have here even if they cant deal considerable damage. Theyre always needed for wars and heck no amount of tankers/dders can replace the role they play there .... Friggin Trappers!!! Its not funny when they lay an entire road of minefield ahead of you which sucks away HP, MP and stops your movement while youre getting nuked to death.

assa got shadow teleport so archer does not much damage(damage is redused by half when target is near to them!)

Archers also have 5 skills which do not suffer damage penalty at close range <.<. 4 of them do not have a long cast time and 1 is pretty much spammable due to low cool down.

This is just to state that the damage penalty can be worked around if someone/something gets near.

@On Topic,
Seriously, I dont know people are still arguing about which one is better or which is being replaced.

Adapt your strategies depending on what classes you have and youre good to go. Neither class can replace the other. As long as your quest is completed, there is nothing more to think about. You will always find ppl who suck at their characters and who are really good.

Veronica_ - Heavens Tear

This is idoitic...... an assasin can NEVER replace an archer , just like an archer can NEVER replace an assasin. b:sweat

For the people saying "But , assasins can use bows" . well good for you, there are crossbows and slingshoot too <.< . They are ONLY for archers ._. Besides just becase you can use a bow it is unknown how good..... And either way since assasins use *daggers* why shoud they use bows O.- , I mean if they want a ranged class go make an archer b:surrender

Just like there are many importain skills that archer has and assasin - not.While fighting a boss with a lot of hp ( mainly TT cases ) it will be MUCH easyer for the squad if the arches uses sharpen tooth arrow.

Good day b:bye

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Periculosul - Raging Tide wrote: »

You have something to say or just trolling b:angry


Q: Archer replaced by Assassin?

learn to pay attention to the prior posts, good lord. I always read all the pages before i answer, seems u did not if your asking me this. If each post has to be some kind of an answer to the first question, then your post right here just failed to answer it and your also pointing fingers at other, unless repeating the question like you did just now is ok. Here lemme try it;

Q: Archer replaced by Assassin?

Zhadou - Heavens Tear

lol
idk why this thread has continued for so long when the guy who started it is a lvl 14 troll noob
b:bye

Veronica_ - Heavens Tear

Zhadou - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol
idk why this thread has continued for so long when the guy who started it is a lvl 14 troll noob
b:bye

I too have no idea, this is meaningless ......

Lusca - Sanctuary

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If I;m right and hes talking about the game I think hes talking about....then I would say yes cos the 140k hp ppl have a skill that does damage proportional to 10% of their max hp they have at the time of casting and never misses and the effect is present for the next 5 normal hits. However after dealing the damage, they lose out like 5% of their hp. That would essentially one shot most classes except the heavily equipped tanks which would probably last 2~3 hits.

Those 140k hp chars are behemoths and usually stand at the backlines as support :P.

However there is also another class which can achieve that much HP or even more with their skills and equips (I think max was like 200k) who would hit with a 300% dmg increase (trust me this hurts when they already have the highest physical damage you can get out there) and at ridiculous speeds (faster than a fist BM over here). This one is like the primary charging class. More of a BM+Barb combined into a single one. More fearful than the previous character since these can one shot ppl without sacrificing on HP

And a surprising thing about these heavy damaging classes is that theyre tanks who can get immense physical and magic defense apart from the atk damage and HP.

But even so, strategically speaking, archers there have a lot more use than what we have here even if they cant deal considerable damage. Theyre always needed for wars and heck no amount of tankers/dders can replace the role they play there .... Friggin Trappers!!! Its not funny when they lay an entire road of minefield ahead of you which sucks away HP, MP and stops your movement while youre getting nuked to death.

nah the game i was thinking of is were pvp is basically ruled by one class since they can get the second highest hp but can still one hit almost everyone

and this game doesn't even have magic defense, just defense which barely matters at all anyway lol and it doesn't even have agro skills

Ahknatn - Heavens Tear

ok im not taking sides but
ive tried archer (and ive only got to lvl 15 and got bored) and as far as ive noticed
u cant shoot and run at the same time
plus we can tely and when u knockback assasin just does speedup and runs up to u and surprise surprise
whos at a disadvantage
ok so dont be mad at me

i really dont want to be in an argument but, just sayin, u get like 3 hits and theyre on top of you.
and btw can someone tell me what u do to stay away from the enemy and keep shooting them at lvl 15?
cuz i shoot them, run, and i still have to wait while m spec charges wich just slows m down.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »

nah the game i was thinking of is were pvp is basically ruled by one class since they can get the second highest hp but can still one hit almost everyone

and this game doesn't even have magic defense, just defense which barely matters at all anyway lol and it doesn't even have agro skills

yup. one word. Asal XD ignores def and one hits anyone and everyone with only a 14 sec cooldown lol. not to mention the class itself that uses the skill is near unkillable with good equips.

but no need to talk about that game now. imo this game is thousands of times more balanced then that other one.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

yup. one word. Asal XD ignores def and one hits anyone and everyone with only a 14 sec cooldown lol. not to mention the class itself that uses the skill is near unkillable with good equips.

but no need to talk about that game now. imo this game is thousands of times more balanced then that other one.

lmfao yeahs, it use to be good in like v6/v7 but now it is seriously like the worst mmorpg i have seen x.x

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Ahknatn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok im not taking sides but
ive tried archer (and ive only got to lvl 15 and got bored) and as far as ive noticed
u cant shoot and run at the same time
plus we can tely and when u knockback assasin just does speedup and runs up to u and surprise surprise
whos at a disadvantage
ok so dont be mad at me

i really dont want to be in an argument but, just sayin, u get like 3 hits and theyre on top of you.
and btw can someone tell me what u do to stay away from the enemy and keep shooting them at lvl 15?
cuz i shoot them, run, and i still have to wait while m spec charges wich just slows m down.

And how exactly does this go on to say that assassins replace archers? o.O

At earlier lvls i agree with you but that lvl15 is passed pretty quickly. You havent played an archer beyond lvl15 so you wouldnt know. Once you cross 19 u can practically keep things away from u using Frost + Knockback arrow. If they get near use metal atks (lightning strike lvl1 is got at lvl13) or winged pledge which do not suffer any dmg penalty and hit decently hard.

At my lvl am practically donating stacks of 100 hp/mp pots to my faction members since theyre occupying space in my bank and inventory and I am yet to buy a single potion from the apoth for myself <.<. I think that pretty much proves that i rarely need to use potions to do normal grinding which I do like 3 hrs continuous, only taking a break every 10% (300~400 kills of equal lvl ranged magic mobs) to repair my equips and sell DQs and junk . I dont think the same can be said for sins.

As for knocking back assassins, when do knockbacks work in pvp/duels/tw? o.O

Quilue - Sanctuary

before frost and knockback archers might as well just wield fists...honestly...