Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?
Comments
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Hate to break it to you, but when you really think about it, the extra 2khp a herc has doesn't mean squat against a boss. If you aren't able to heal back the same amount of damage that is being done, you will die. That simple. While yes, having a higher maximum allows for more forgiveness for certain boss skills, it doesn't change this fact. Giving any pet the defense buff negates this weakness that non-herc pets have since it can be triggered when the boss is casting to reduce the damage that would be done. With the right skills, and enough healing, almost any raised pet can tank bosses. With channeling gear, you don't even need a second veno.
The bottom line is that having a herc doesn't make you a good veno, it just makes you able to solo bosses. You still need to know how to utilize your pet and skills to fit the roles needed for any squad or situation. Reducing a veno to being just another tank that has no repair bill is an insult to those skilled venos. Suggesting that veno's are replacement barbs is an insult to those barbs that actually know how to tank.0 -
I miss the parties of all classes working together to kill a boss.
Being farely new to all this, when I started I met some great ppl that were patient and kind to me. People that aren't even the same class as me taught me alot about what Venos can do.
I love being a veno and having pets. Learning different ways to use different pets makes it fun for me.
When I was really low level, people invited me to dungeons and bosses and it amazed me that even though I was the lowest level in the party they still wanted me there. It was alot of fun.
I was amazed at what all the classes could do against some of these bosses and the team work was amazing.
This is the funny part now...I've asked ppl for help for others to do their bosses and get left out of the squads. I'm the first one there to help..I'm the one asking others to help not even for myself, but I get left out and now I'm a level 60 and more practiced. If I do get invited it's because they want me to spam life a Herc.
My best friend has always wanted a Herc and I see them so much now that I'm here looking to see if they are really worth the expense. I miss being part of a squad. I miss the fun of helping ppl and being helped.
If I do get one, I will help the people that have helped me and been kind to me. If I don't know you and you just want me to use my Herc, then I you will be introduced to my pet rock.
It's a game and meant to be fun, a squad is suppose to be about team work. It's not real life, but it's real people.0 -
If I do get one, I will help the people that have helped me and been kind to me. If I don't know you and you just want me to use my Herc, then I you will be introduced to my pet rock.
It's a game and meant to be fun, a squad is suppose to be about team work. It's not real life, but it's real people.
Don't change for their sake. Once they've managed to thoroughly ruin the prices on those TT mats that they can farm, and gotten bored of spamhealing, the hype will go away and the focus will be back on those venos who can work within a party.
It's the big thing now... Just like Neinbeast was for those 4 or 5 hours right after being available. Then people realize that it kinda sucks, and really isn't worth the cost or effort.0 -
lol now even veno's are complaining about the cash shop pets b:chuckle
time to lock away the OP pets b:pleased
lmao
topic starter is totally right , it's rarely that a veno get's asked if they don't have a herc for dungeons
it's rarely that veno's get assigned for TW without pheonix
but hey ^^
they're the PVE solo classthanks to forsaken for this awesome sig b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I don't see the hercs or nix's as a passing faze unless later levels proves them less effective. Most want the easy way out.
As for mat prices, everything drops when the market gets overwhelmed. And it's already happening. Look at the chi for genies. I bought up chi before they were brought in game for my bird. lol Knowing the prices would go way up. Now they're coming down because people are learning to make it for themselves and competitive prices. I never bothered with crafting till I found out how to make the stuff and still make it for my bird.
But the draw to Hercs is the quick and easy in and out of dungeons and bosses.
I'll just keep playing with my plain ole pets and enjoying getting them and me into some screwy situations. Nice thing about dying here is it isn't perminent. b:chuckle0 -
16 pages of over analizing and mostly bs huh..
Here is the scoop, herc can do things golems cant. Chances are if somone asks on WC "need a veno with herc" then it means they probably already all died trying a golem.
So if sommone asks for X and you go "well i dont have X but i got a really nice Y" of course you're getting ignored.
Now to address some of the other nonsense in the thread:
NO hercs dont tank better than barbs, their HP is way to low.
Most classes are totally ignorant about venos and see them as a neccessary evil to do dungeons and refuse to properly learn/research. Venos with hercs are not better than other venos with regular pets if you are just doing a regular dungeon run with pulling. Infact hercs are a pain to lure with because you need to redo their buffs all the time.0 -
Wrong, there was a party of us there, I just spam healed him well enough.Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »point 1
you mustve been on solo modepoint 2
magic deffffff, golem has none
not very contributing points to an argument.
VERY apt point for this arguement. I have a pet with better Mag Def than a Golem. So shoot me. b:laugh
Other points, yeah Hercs are **** at luring: slooooooooooow big fat man.
My Adalwolf has been with me since level 15, therefore the gain he has in stats is MUCH greater than pets I could tame at his level would start with.
Hmm Hercs aint no Barbs, they're nowhere near as cuddly, and basically, overrated except for boss tanking, when a Barb isn't available.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud member of the VenoMafia.
b:flower Read my FanFic! b:flower
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=3342220 -
I don't think there is a veno out there that would claim that a herc is as good a tank as a barb, unless you're a fail veno. Besides, a veno is MUCH more useful playing her given role in a squad, indirect support with pet as DPS and using her debuffs/amps/sparks.
BUT to claim that there is a pet that can, hit for hit, tank better than the herc, is silly. I don't know of a pet that has higher pdef, and if there is one that has higher mdef, it certainly doesn't have the pdef of a herc. The herc is designed to accentuate the veno's soloing capabilities and improve them. That's certainly what I got one for.
Golem has higher spike damage but slower attack speed, some pets run faster than the herc, but overall it's a known fact (that's FACT, not opinion) that the herc is the best PET tank in the game.
That being said, venos need to learn their roles, I spent 30m on a pet but that doesn't mean I want to replace tanks, I got it to solo, that is what a herc is for.
It's insulting to me, furthermore, that people without legendary pets feel the need to degrade me because I chose to scrimp and save to purchase one with coin. I don't want to "take the easy way out" and I'm not arrogant or fail <_< I chose to buy the herc to expand my soloing capabilities, and I'm purchasing the phoenix (when I get the coin
) for the same reason, it takes my veno's inherent ability to solo and expands it.
You play your way, I play mine. If you're insulting me or anyone else for having a herc, you're just as bad as the ones degrading you because you don't have one.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Anyone else notice the trend that not one single non-herc owner has anything good to say about the herc?
I love uninformed opinions, don't you? Guess what? Those of us that have one didn't at one point, so we can actually comment on both sides of the argument.
Someone above me said that they prefer being useful to a party. You do realize you can have more than one pet, right? And that having a herc as one of them makes you even more useful to your party? I can tank, DD, debuff, pull all with a few simple mouse clicks.
Someone also said they have better things to spend their money on. I have both legendary pets, and didn't spend a single penny on either. Making money in this game is easy.
You don't have to have a herc to be effective, but don't think for one second that you will ever be as good as an equally skilled veno with one.0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »Anyone else notice the trend that not one single non-herc owner has anything good to say about the herc?
I love uninformed opinions, don't you? Guess what? Those of us that have one didn't at one point, so we can actually comment on both sides of the argument.
Someone above me said that they prefer being useful to a party. You do realize you can have more than one pet, right? And that having a herc as one of them makes you even more useful to your party? I can tank, DD, debuff, pull all with a few simple mouse clicks.
Someone also said they have better things to spend their money on. I have both legendary pets, and didn't spend a single penny on either. Making money in this game is easy.
You don't have to have a herc to be effective, but don't think for one second that you will ever be as good as an equally skilled veno with one.
Umm, I'd love to have a Herc, but coin to level ratio, I must be the poorest veno on PWI.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud member of the VenoMafia.
b:flower Read my FanFic! b:flower
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=3342220 -
MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »Umm, I'd love to have a Herc, but coin to level ratio, I must be the poorest veno on PWI.
Die a few times, but please. Don't call me a lazy bum because I saved to get one, or any other veno with a legendary pet.
Those without hate being generalized, well those with don't like it much either.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I would never want Barbs to be removed.....
I was just saying that 'cause.. yes.. I've been in squads (not with my Venom but with other toons) where the team refused the help of high level barbs becuase they wanted to have a Herc as a tank and we had healing power..... I also been in squads where the barbs asked me to pull out my Herc and tank as much as possible, so it would cost them less of repairs......and after saying I had no Herc to be kicked out from the squads....
So yes.. I met some people that would take an Herc instead of a barb.. and I even met barbs that prefer having a Herc tanking....
Which I find ridiculous.... there's the title of my previous post.....
It is my choice to not have a Herc ... I cannot buy Gold .. and when I finally can play, I like helping others and do some soloing from time to time.. so I cannot grind alot of money.. and when I do have some.. I'll either spend it on skills or gears....or to give a gift to a friend that helped me
I know my pets will never be as good as an Herc... but.. I still have fun... I still help others...and I am still pretty useful in many occasion... I just can't solo bosses.. but.. usually.. my happy barb friends will be more than happy to do it
As far as soloing.. maybe I cannot AOE as much as somebody that has a Herc .. but I easily solo many things over my level.... I am 67 now and I solo Golden edges ( I can handle 2 at a time, 3 sometimes), Hooded Adawolfs ( I can handle 2 at a time), the leopardite beside DWP etc...0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »Anyone else notice the trend that not one single non-herc owner has anything good to say about the herc?
That's actually a false generalization.I love uninformed opinions, don't you? Guess what? Those of us that have one didn't at one point, so we can actually comment on both sides of the argument.
Your previous statement is an uninformed opinion not based on fact.You don't have to have a herc to be effective, but don't think for one second that you will ever be as good as an equally skilled veno with one.
I've seen how many venos with hercs play, and I have to disagree.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I've seen how many venos with hercs play, and I have to disagree.
Do try to read. She said, "equally skilled." Put the same fail veno behind a herc and a golem, the herc will still win. Put the same win veno behind a herc and a golem, the herc will still win.
I haven't seen a veno with a herc hate on a veno without one in this thread. But there seems to be a lot of hate for venos WITH one, as if having a herc makes you a fail, lazy bum who wants only to make money.
Sure, when I got a herc I was attracted to the possibility of making money soloing, but that is it, soloing, soloing, soloing, soloing. Soloing quests, soloing bosses, soloing.
Just because fail venos have hercs, doesn't make every veno with a herc fail.
Stop generalizing, or you're as bad as the people this thread was meant to point out.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Alphae - Lost City wrote: »Stop generalizing, or you're as bad as the people this thread was meant to point out.
That wasn't a generalization.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »dont make things up they dont add to your argument. you -need- a herc to kill those mobs during bean collecting, ive seen them kill wizards in LA who have 2x the pdef of my old golem.
emm, weird, i killed them with no problems0 -
I think the point of the thread and many posts I read, isn't whether hercs and their owners are good or bad. And I don't think it was intended to slam other classes. All classes have our pros and cons.
I think the point is for people not to be so quick to ingnore a hercless veno. When I ask for help, I'm grateful for anyone that will take the time out of their questing to be there for me.
Death in game isn't forever. Being rude can be.
Show a little respect to the ones that would go out of their way and take the time to help you. And don't be so quick to judge a class or level. I've seen some people from all classes that were amazing.0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »That wasn't a generalization.
That wasn't directed at you in particular, just my first paragraph. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Who wrote that tank squad mode HH with some lame pet? LOL, thats ridicolous, you cant tank those bosses without a herc, unles I suppose youre 40 lvls higher?
Golem Crystalline is the best tank (non CS) in the game, thats it. If you take others pet youre just nerfing yourself, it would like a barb saying, OH, I dont use Heavy Armor bcs I dont like how it looks.
For magic defense purposes you can lvl other pets as well and have two tanks, one magic one defense.
Herc is the best tank regarding VENOs pets, a barb can never be replaced.
Facts. Herc cant rush, barb can ie.
Herc is a way to make venos life easier, and to get HH/bosses drop much more easier, since we all know that solo mode drops kinda suxs most of the time
I dont think that you can say "I wont take herc or nix" both pets are the best you can get, why would someone not take the best they can? :S It makes no sense0 -
I don't have a herc and am doin' fine, thank you. One day maybe I'll have the stuff to get one But I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over it. I play the game and hope I'm skillful enough to not need to spend money all over the place to get quests done. It may be more difficult , but hell, isn't challenge the name of the game?0
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Kinkajou - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't have a herc and am doin' fine, thank you. One day maybe I'll have the stuff to get one But I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over it. I play the game and hope I'm skillful enough to not need to spend money all over the place to get quests done. It may be more difficult , but hell, isn't challenge the name of the game?
You always are going to do it fine, hell plp before herc and nix played without them with no further issues, but buying a nix or herc is a huge investment that will FOR SURE pay back by itself.
Herc through HH, Nix through fastening your grinding and your levelling.
Legendary are the ultimate pets (so far) and any veno should get them if they are seriously playing this game0 -
I am not sure players realize how difficult it is getting a herc or nix and the diet they need.Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0
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MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »I am not sure players realize how difficult it is getting a herc or nix and the diet they need.
by lvl 50 ?yah difficult, by 70? hard, by 80ish should be there, realize many classes throw that into a single or 2 pieces of equipment by lvl 800 -
If I ever saved the monie for a rare veno pet (I still owe a friend 1 Mill and it doesnt help that I keep asking my faction mates for help because im way too lazy to do mob grinding quests on my own >.>) Im gonna get a phoenix. Not because of its stats, but because I think id be a bit wiereded out from a giant buddah folowin me arround everywhere O.o
Venos with Hercs = great
Venos witout Hercs = just as skilled[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »I am not sure players realize how difficult it is getting a herc or nix and the diet they need.
If they can afford the 20m for each pet, chances that shelling out another 1-2m for christmas blessing (since EVERYONE gets one at level 80 now (Worst mistake ever)), and a few hundred k for food isn't going to break them. It's a bit of an annoyance, but is hardly something serious.0 -
MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »I am not sure players realize how difficult it is getting a herc or nix and the diet they need.
If someone is pro enough (irl or game b:victory ) to get the pets then feeding will be no problem.
I was paying 400k a week before (the christmas blessing came out) on arcane books. They were pretty easy to afford....it just sucked that I couldn't save as much. b:shocked
Now with the blessing in the supply stash, feeding isn't even an issue. ;o0 -
Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's just a phase for comformity and ****. But the funny thing is is that new pets are coming out.b:chuckle So in other words, Hercules might not be the best thing anymore. Godly Dragon FTW lol just kidding >.> You didn't hear me say anything. It's the way people are sadly.
Wait what?you thilly gooses... feather set is thuper fabulous! -Bowlinbob
Chars:
Qwentomec 94 BM / _Zappy_ 99 Wizzy / xLysander 6x Cleric / MoneyBagz 5x Veno / BaNaNa 3x Barb / _Flappy_ 2x Archer / xKnifey 2x Sin / Spoo_Ney 3x Psy
(cookie for anyone who gets the simpsons reference in those last 2 names)0 -
made up **** by player assuming herc and phoenix will be obsolete some day0
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Sashera - Sanctuary wrote: »If I ever saved the monie for a rare veno pet (I still owe a friend 1 Mill and it doesnt help that I keep asking my faction mates for help because im way too lazy to do mob grinding quests on my own >.>) Im gonna get a phoenix. Not because of its stats, but because I think id be a bit wiereded out from a giant buddah folowin me arround everywhere O.o
Venos with Hercs = great
Venos witout Hercs = just as skilled
I would go for Herc if you want to make money and do FB runs.The Nix is for pvp.
What is the x-mas blessing you all talk about?Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0 -
dont you guys get it yet?? not all of us are able to afford it! some of us are poor, some on SSI or other disabiltiy checks, or other tiny income, which prevents us from buying it outrigit. when you are on that tight a budget, limited time to play the norm, so collecting up the millions to buy the pet and the blessing to feed it are impossible. its bad enough to be poor, without having rich players telling us to just 'try harder'.
these are just a few of the reasons, but bottom line is:
many of us have no choice- we are stuck with the pets we have, and we resent how others diss us for this fact. please be fair, and play fair.[/I]Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »time
I dont think that you can say "I wont take herc or nix" both pets are the best you can get, why would someone not take the best they can? :S It makes no sense[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0
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