Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?
Comments
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Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Barbs are much better tanks than a herc can ever hope to be
er... at a few bosses sure but thats <10-20%
on lvl 150 or just much higher bosses i prefer a tank that deals 2x damage and holds aggro ..well completely... not to mention leaving the cleric to debuff/dd and not sit there ironhearting all day, and overall saving charm and everyones time0 -
SunHawk - Heavens Tear wrote: »1) that herc would have died without me helping her duel heal it
This quote, right here, is why I don't have a Herc, nor, really do I ever want one. I can't keep it alive. I'm an LA/Vit Veno. My pet heals... Well, they're pretty crappy. Compared to a Pure Mag veno, my spells do little poofs of healing. Granted, as I sit right now, I can heal my Golem for Half his HP, now that I got my hands on a + 10 Magic, tome, but either way, it's not going to be that much more effective if I try to use a Herc. So, I use my Golem as a DPS tank. By the time he's done, he will have 4 attack skills at level 5. Bash, Sandblow, Flesh Ream, and Thunderbolt, which actually makes him quite the terror at PvP. Granted, he's not going to catch up with anyone, least not on his own, anyway. But since I PvP in Fox, as well as having Genie effects that do so, I can stop or slow people so I can get them, and then rip through them.
On a sidenote, talking about bizarre pets, I'm the proud owner of an Undine with Threaten. You gotta love that skill. Cutting physical attack for 15 seconds every 30? Not to mention if you have 2 venos each with an Undine, you can permanently cripple the boss's attack. I've plowed through TT like that. 2 undines + Barb = Happy Barb. And, the one I had came with Tough, so I can help her last through AoE's for a bit as well.
Sometimes, the Herc is not the best choice for a task at hand. Since we cannot purify our pets, Debuffs eat away at our pets. So, in certain situations, a pet that isn't pulling aggro, yet assisting the main tank, would be the best choice. Last I checked, Herc doesn't come with debuffs, only buffs and attacks. Of course, in a bit of irony, a Veno who did, in fact, give her Herc Debuffs would be mocked for all eternity.0 -
Yes there is a secret, and no I'm not telling. If you really think about it, you should be able to figure it out. What you've posted is halfway to the answer. As for my regular cat shop, there's no big secret. Anyone who buys from it sees what I sell (mostly DQ31 items). Buy low, sell high.Literature - Harshlands wrote: »K perfect stones go for 900 on HL so thats like 17000 you have to get from breaking down. You only get like 10 from 1 item. Tell us your secret of how you got 17000 of them and sold them all within a week.
Money-making opportunities exist in things that are obvious but hard to do, or things that very few people think of how to do. The herc is great for helping you do the former if you want to do what everyone does. But anyone can do the latter if they just spend some time to think about things.0 -
To the OP:
I can understand your frustration. It must suck to be ignored or thought to be worthless. The reality is, Hercs are the best pets in the game when it comes to tanking bosses and such. So when a group of people are looking for people to accomplish something in the game, it only makes sense for them to look for the best people they can get. Now, this isnt a tiny community. Not everyone knows each other nor will they ever. So what do they have to go by? Pets. Pets gear and maybe at times, reputation. You randomly PM someone, they dont know who you are. Nor do they know what kind of gear you might have (although for venos its a bit irrelavent). So they ask the next best thing. My advice to you is, get a Herc. It only benefits you in the long run. Whether you can keep it alive or not, that is something you have to somehow overcome yourself. However, not getting one will only result in more headaches and let downs. Sorry, it might not seem RIGHT but its how things are. b:byeb:bye you were all swell peoples0 -
Literature - Harshlands wrote: »What other way is there to make money besides grinding for 10 hours a day? I made 16m in a week doing twilight temple...not even hardcore playing. Please tell me anyone w/o herc who can do that without extreme no-lifing.
But like I said, people without a herc don't understand...or don't want to because they can't afford one. ;o
Without a herc, without a magmite, without anything stronger than an oddfoot king I made 3 million coin by level 24 on my venomancer. I have literally gone through millions in coin without a herc. Since then I have picked up a volcanic magmite so I could kill Krixxix with help from another veno dual healing the level 43 golem.
You do not need a herc to make millions of coins.
How did I do it?
Simple: I set a cat shop while I wasn't playing.
Many of the players you claim don't understand actually do understand a lot more than you give them credit for or could possilby fathom since in your mind the only person who could understand is you or someone who bought easy mode which is a gross generalization and blatantly false. (yes, I am aware there is a generalization in there, and no, I don't care)
Many people don't play games on easy mode, they chose hard, expert, and nightmare mode because it's a challenge, but you don't like anything past easy breezy cover girl.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well, @Isala, you remember my topic in the veno section, there it was pretty obvious that "classification" of the veno class has begun into "hercless = trash && hercfull(?) = pro", and tbh there is nothing we can do about but harm ourselves with the concern and frustration caused b the global attitude of this topic...
Really, there you were one of the reasonable types, and I can only advise to you no to let it ruin your pleasure and experience of this game. Best of luck and fun...0 -
One thing to remember in all this is MOST venos with herc didn't get theirs until their 70's,and went through the same ****,myself included.
Know what i did once i finally got mine?Anyone that asks me for help that previously left me out of tt's fb's and even bosses i probably could have tanked with a lesser pet,i ignore now
**** them. Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »This quote, right here, is why I don't have a Herc, nor, really do I ever want one. I can't keep it alive. I'm an LA/Vit Veno. My pet heals... Well, they're pretty crappy. Compared to a Pure Mag veno, my spells do little poofs of healing. Granted, as I sit right now, I can heal my Golem for Half his HP, now that I got my hands on a + 10 Magic, tome, but either way, it's not going to be that much more effective if I try to use a Herc. So, I use my Golem as a DPS tank. By the time he's done, he will have 4 attack skills at level 5. Bash, Sandblow, Flesh Ream, and Thunderbolt, which actually makes him quite the terror at PvP. Granted, he's not going to catch up with anyone, least not on his own, anyway. But since I PvP in Fox, as well as having Genie effects that do so, I can stop or slow people so I can get them, and then rip through them.
On a sidenote, talking about bizarre pets, I'm the proud owner of an Undine with Threaten. You gotta love that skill. Cutting physical attack for 15 seconds every 30? Not to mention if you have 2 venos each with an Undine, you can permanently cripple the boss's attack. I've plowed through TT like that. 2 undines + Barb = Happy Barb. And, the one I had came with Tough, so I can help her last through AoE's for a bit as well.
Sometimes, the Herc is not the best choice for a task at hand. Since we cannot purify our pets, Debuffs eat away at our pets. So, in certain situations, a pet that isn't pulling aggro, yet assisting the main tank, would be the best choice. Last I checked, Herc doesn't come with debuffs, only buffs and attacks. Of course, in a bit of irony, a Veno who did, in fact, give her Herc Debuffs would be mocked for all eternity.
Isala the only flaw with your logic is that the herc needs about a quarter of the healing as the golem. Anything a golem can do, a herc can do better. Not only that but with the herc you can actually dps instead of spam healing.
You say you don't want one, and I can respect that. One of these days you will actually have the spare coin to get one, and if you do you will retract every statement you have ever made about not wanting one.0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »Isala the only flaw with your logic is that the herc needs about a quarter of the healing as the golem. Anything a golem can do, a herc can do better. Not only that but with the herc you can actually dps instead of spam healing.
You say you don't want one, and I can respect that. One of these days you will actually have the spare coin to get one, and if you do you will retract every statement you have ever made about not wanting one.
Actually you can DPS with a golem by alternating between casting Pet Heal and nuking the mob depending on what is going on.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually you can DPS with a golem by alternating between casting Pet Heal and nuking the mob depending on what is going on.
Anything a golem can tank that you can afford the time to nuke a herc can do with even less heals. It's a simple matter of mathematics. Of course there are some things a golem can tank with nukes, no one is denying that. That doesn't change the fact that the herc does it with far greater efficiency, and far less chance for failure.0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »Isala the only flaw with your logic is that the herc needs about a quarter of the healing as the golem. Anything a golem can do, a herc can do better. Not only that but with the herc you can actually dps instead of spam healing.
You say you don't want one, and I can respect that. One of these days you will actually have the spare coin to get one, and if you do you will retract every statement you have ever made about not wanting one.
I know you're right. I know having a Herc would make this game so much easier, and simpler... But, no matter what, I'm still not getting one. Call it ego, call it principle, call it plain stupidity, but there's just something about having to pay money for a pet that just doesn't set right with me. I know I can grind the 25 million it needs to have it. I can probably do that within a few weeks, if I really set myself down to it, but I'm not going to. It's just not for me. Being able to tame a pet, and bring it to the top means much more to me than dumping a ton of cash to have a pet like everyone else. And, yeah, I know. I'm being a hypocrite because a ton of Venos have Golems as well, but I'm not getting a Herc for the same reason I'm not getting a Nix, which is the same reason I've got a funky build.
I'm not a clone.
Everyone keeps telling me, "No, this is how you play a Veno." and I'm not buying it. There has to be more to our class, something untapped, something that will set me apart from the hoards of other Venos. Something, that at the end of the game, will set me over all cookie cutters. That is why I play games, not just PW. I play them to find my own path, and to be better under my own power than those who have come before, or who will come after. That is my goal, my drive, my ambition. And that is why, although I respect every single one of you who does have legendary pets, and Guide based builds, I can't be one of you.0 -
Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »Anything a golem can tank that you can afford the time to nuke a herc can do with even less heals. It's a simple matter of mathematics. Of course there are some things a golem can tank with nukes, no one is denying that. That doesn't change the fact that the herc does it with far greater efficiency, and far less chance for failure.
You
Are
Not
Listening
Let
Me
Repeat
Myself
You do not need a herc, and not having a herc does not make a veno useless.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
So you are complaining about conforming? Playing a game a certain way isn't conforming, it's playing how people would like to.
I have a herc, me and my hubby got it both together.
I'm proud of it, and no, it's not conforming, in fact I don't see how it's possible to do that in a game. Herc helps me a lot, and helps me help people more so without needing anything in return. So "tbh" this thread is useless, you're basically complaining about your said ego.
End it.
edit: btw I did not waste real cash on my herc. Just to throw that out there.
b:bye0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »You
Are
Not
Listening
Let
Me
Repeat
Myself
You do not need a herc, and not having a herc does not make a veno useless.
Next time you try to be patronising to someone,read what was written PROPERLY,now you point out where she says a veno is useless without herc or that you MUST have one.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
**** - Sanctuary wrote: »So "tbh" this thread is useless, you're basically complaining about your said ego.
End it.
I didn't just post this for me. I posted it for all Venos out there. If I wanted to complain about my ego, a simple angry World Chat shout would have sufficed. Regardless of my reasons for not owning a Herc, the fact remains that it is an opinion of many people in the game. I just merely brought it up.0 -
Isa doesnt have an ego ****. hes actually rather a docile passive kinda dude.
take it as a vouch for a judge of character, i think, hes a decent guy, he just doesnt see why people look down on alot of people without bird for TW or herc for TT/FB/boss etc0 -
Sorry I misread the "call it ego" - sorry to Isala
However I do believe this thread is still pointless. All that is happening is flame after flame.
Honestly I haven't seen anyone look down on a veno without a bird for tw also. I don't have one, I'm on a pve server damnit, why do I need a pk pet (perfectly happy with kowlin thanks)? xD
As for looking down on certain things, it's how games are. Everybody does it, that's why you prove you're worth something as does everyone else.
That is just my opinion though.
b:sad0 -
**** - Sanctuary wrote: »Sorry I misread the "call it ego" - sorry to Isala
No, you were quite right. I do have an ego. Can any of us honestly say we don't have one to some degree? I didn't have a problem with you saying I had an ego, just that it was the only reason for my post. And I understand that it seems pointless, but at least it's stirred things up a little bit and made some people evaluate their opinions, even if just for a second while they posted.0 -
I never once said a hercless veno was useless. I can obviously say from personal experience that we aren't. There are still a lot things we are capable of. Once again that still doesn't change the fact that a herc is preferred for many situations. Assuming equal skill of the veno, the herc will always perform better.0
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Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm not a clone.
Saying everyone is special is the same is saying that no one is.
I'd rather use my herc, and utilize all my potential as a veno, "just like all the other venos", and have my game a little easier, so that I can do what I do best when playing this game: do about 10 other things at the same time, including reading this forum, playing flash games, watching TV, and often reading a novel as well.
And ask my guild leader if I am always afk. b:sad
Honestly I say that they way you play is fantastic, I love that you're so enjoying it, and so passionate about it. But just as if I chose to play a melee wizard, or an FAC, or some other "alternate" build, I can't be offended 20 times a day when people say, "need cleric TT1-2" and when you say "I"m FAC" they say "we need a healer, sorry." It's just the way life works. If a herc veno is being requested for the veno to amp/purge/spark pass, that's stupid. But if a herc veno is being requested, then assume that they need him to tank, and if you don't have one, there is no place in the party for you, and that's just the way it is.
I've found there are 2 ways that life progresses. One is that sht happens, and we worry about it. The other is that sht happens, and we choose to not worry about it.
I picked the latter.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
i know what you mean about aggro-its kind of funny to me that in an FB, my golem, who is lower level than the barb that does a lot of our guild's FBs, steals aggro from the barb all the time! so i wind up having to use my eldergoth sharpshooter instead to help him while i debuff in foxform.
i love the wolves so much, and miss them badly now that im stuck in the swamp. they are beautiful, fast and much nicer to be with than a pile of rocks, or an ugly purple gorilla with painted toenails. <wry grin>
SunHawk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok i will admit that hercs are awsome in some ways but i gotta be honest..they cant keep agro for ****! I have a high lv tank and while in TT's i have found it is easyer for a well raised golem to steal my agro then a herc. I have also seen venos aoe with hercs which iv seen is effect the issue being as i said they cannot keep agro. Its funny honestly. I will see a veno take on like 8 mobs and 3 of them will trail off; she has to run while makeing her herc try to grab them back. Ok heres the thing i agree with the use of multiple pets because I personally like wolves (and the kowling) style pets. If you find a good elite wolf it tanks just fine. Also they are very fast that is why i like them. I have a mythical wolfkin on my veno and he moves 8.7 m/sec so when i mob with him he can easly catch mobs that run off, before they reach me. And as was said spend cash on that pet. (which in the end is cheaper then a herc) it makes up for it. As long as one raised it and kept its moves up. I also laughed when i found out that a veno with a herc was with another veno (yes it was raised) and they duel healed it for krimson. Guess what ppl it died!b:laugh .The only thing i hate is ppl seem to think one NEEDs a herc. COME ON PPL use you minds! WTH do you think ppl did before hercs even came into the game. I mean come on! The lvs were already up to at least 80 think of all the TTs and Bosses that were done before hercs even came into to play. Im not saying its a sucky pet im just saying ONE SHOULDNT HAVE THE MIND SET THAT YOU NEED IT! And come on $200 serously!? For a pet lol. Venos can get boring but honestly where is the challenge and fun if one gets a herc? If your gonna get one since they can take on higher lv mobs just get one at higher lvs. I mean honestly where is the fun if you get it at the begining of the game. And for those wondering yes there will be better and diffrent pets. That parrot on the backround aint just for looks b:laugh i have seen that later there will be this litte minature dragon and that parrot(no jk) but sorry idk their stats. I enjoy my beast pets eventhough they may not be the best they get the job done and make it fun for me and thats what counts. Some ppl are just better with certain types of pets. I had a friend who sold her kowling cause she felt her golem was better. Oh and question can you even teach a herc skills other then what it currently has? In the long run wouldnt that make it eventually out of date? oh PS i was on my veno and out of the goodness of my heart i helped another veno heal her herc for hog king. 1) that herc would have died without me helping her duel heal it 2) she was getting attacked and i sent my wolf after the mobs cause hes fast 3) the bish didnt even say thank you she just flew off.... Last comment why do so many venos with hercs get an ego(and dont get all huffy i said many not all)...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »i know what you mean about aggro-its kind of funny to me that in an FB, my golem, who is lower level than the barb that does a lot of our guild's FBs, steals aggro from the barb all the time! so i wind up having to use my eldergoth sharpshooter instead to help him while i debuff in foxform.
turn of bash/pounce/flesh ream?0 -
Um, pets tend to have aggro skills, and they cast faster than a barb can cast THEIR aggro skills so unless you are TRYING to steal aggro from a barb, turn off your damn aggro skills O_o. I can assure you a lower level golem can steal aggro from a higher level barb easily unless the barb was being fed chi like mad.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
On FB bosses a herc with maxed out bash shouldnt steal agro from a same-level barb who is using his agro spells correctly.
TT bosses are different, as the barb has a 75% damage penalty against the bosses which pets do not, so the pet (with maxes bash) will steal agro unless the barb goes mad with agro spells, and probably needs to be fed chi to do so.
The usual thing is to just turn off bash when you want the barb to tank the boss in TT.
For the same reason, dps class can pull agro off a herc bash in a fb instance, but can probably go full out dps without having to worry in a TT.0 -
thats what i did...i had not know of this before thenMosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »turn of bash/pounce/flesh ream?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
Holystic - Sanctuary wrote: »*Sigh* Welcome to the world of clerics. Most people wont even look at you if you under 75+ for healing. "NEED 75+ Cleric for Jewel". Its seems most people have some seriously ludicrous idea on what is needed to heal some of these bosses or instances.Trust me, I'm just as frustrated as you are. I love proving these type of people wrong so its great when we do some **** like Solo heal a boss where everyone thinks you need 2 healers (1 to heal tank , 1 for BB). **** em , play how you want to play b:laugh
omg i saw that on wc, maybe if the cleric is solo healing and they were looking for high lvl purify..0 -
I DON'T use a Herc or Golem! So HA!
I stand by my Adalwolf, he's tough enough to Tank anything at my level with very little healing, and survived TT 2nd boss when my friend's golem that was 5+ levels above died in a few hits.
HAIL to the old school venos, for one day our army of pets shall outsmart the custard balls.
Also, on the cleric note, I did Jewel the other day with 2 lvl 62 clerics. We would have been fine if it wasn't for the dumbass BM that ran in and got virtually one shotted. O.O[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud member of the VenoMafia.
b:flower Read my FanFic! b:flower
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=3342220 -
point 1
you mustve been on solo mode
point 2
magic deffffff, golem has none
not very contributing points to an argument.0 -
MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »I DON'T use a Herc or Golem! So HA!
I stand by my Adalwolf, he's tough enough to Tank anything at my level with very little healing, and survived TT 2nd boss when my friend's golem that was 5+ levels above died in a few hits.
HAIL to the old school venos, for one day our army of pets shall outsmart the custard balls.
Also, on the cleric note, I did Jewel the other day with 2 lvl 62 clerics. We would have been fine if it wasn't for the dumbass BM that ran in and got virtually one shotted. O.O
Here here! b:victory
Im a strict "No Golem" veno, I cant stand the fact that people just want pets for the stats. I became a veno to use the pet I want, not the pet thats got the best stats.
Iv been using Fang (lvl 59 Darkbreed Wolfkin) ever since I was the right lvl to use one, and he pwns most monsters easily
that and if I have to tank something I have an eldergoth warrior that has a little more health for my spam healing (fyi I can tank a lvl 90 near broken plains no sweat)
Enough bragging from me. Bottom line is stop disregarding us venos without Hercs just because we prefer to spend ou monie elsewhere.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
From what I read... Venom with Herc are mostly wanted.. so a Barb ( which is suppose to be the meatshield of the game) don't tank the bosses, so it cost less of repairs.. and less heals from cleric etc.......
So why not just remove the Barb class then??? if Hecules is the meatshield of PWI... why having an actual meatshield class????
Am sorry.. but I just find all that.. ridiculous...
I am a venom without an Herc or a Phoenix... I am part of a faction that use their class for what they were intended for , Venom to pull and help if tanks dies.. Barb to tank and aggro the mobs, Cleric to heal and help with DD, Archer to DD, Wiz to DD and BM to DD and/or help with some tanking or adds.
Sure, we uses the Hercules if ever a friend or a guildie needs a certain boss and no barbs we know are online.... but in a day to day basis..it is not our 1st choice to use the Hercules as a tank... we like trying things and experience and if we die.. so what... it's a game and we are learning, experiencing and having fun.... that's what a game is suppose to be no???
I come from 6 years of playing Everquest.... there's not much about PWI that I can complain... in EQ you can lose level if you die too much, and regaining exp is way harder than in PWI... when you die, if you aren't rezzed in the 10 minutes timed, you are sent to a central location and need to run back ( naked) to your corpse OR.. you need to buy item to bring your corpse to you and then ask a cleric ( who will usually ask you to pay him) will rez you....
You can die from falling.... I've been stuck in a death loop once.. and lost 3 levels.... took me forever to regain it.... but.. did I whine?? ok.. maybe a lil bit.. but.. it's a game and I continued to play and enjoy the fun .... but then the game started to become a job.. if you were not this or that level with this or that gear etc... you were snobbed.... so I left the game...
I am a mother, I don't have the time or money in PWI case to invest to be a super powerful venom with a super powerful Hercules... which also is apparently sooo needed.. but then.. peeps complain that they are too powerful..... ( people can never be happy it seems) ROFL... I play these game to relax, have fun, be somebody I could not be in RL ( sexah and chatty and all ROFL).... I've also been snobbed many time due to no hercules... or even no Golem.... WHAT??? A VENOM WITH NO GOLEM??? No.. don't.. I have a cute Florafang and I have a chicken... and ok.. I will not tank boss.. but what I have time for in game... and the risk of many AFK due to DD... I still manage to solo almost everything and have fun..... and help my faction and friends..
Ok.. it was longer than I was intended ROFL.. sorry about that 0
This discussion has been closed.
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