Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

LMFAO... you just showed everyone you don't know how to play your character...

omg! i did!?

thats the STUPIDEST logic ive ever heard lol. someone cant play a class because they have a certain kind of pet?

I'll take a veno w/o a herc any day cause they know how to play

ive seen some pretty stupid rare pet using venos who dont know what theyre doing. using blazing on fire mobs, rushing into a group of mobs thinking their golem can take it; only to forget to hit everything once and getting killed because they get heal aggro...

ive also seen some crappy herc users who do things like put flesh ream or roar on theirs, or delete reflect for the sake of a DPS aggro move, refuse to put bash because they thought pounce holds aggro better... among a million other things.

you sir are just plain **** lol.

Herc is a Tank for the Veno not for a squad especially with Archers around with high crit.

not true, just means youre a bad archer if you dont know when to start attacking :P. a 5 bash herc should out aggro you if you attack at the right hp % :P

Alphae - Lost City

MystiBabe - Sanctuary wrote: »

I would rather have a Veno without a Herc in a FB or TT anyday. So tired of Veno's with Hercs thinking they can hold agro on a boss. Herc is a Tank for the Veno not for a squad especially with Archers around with high crit. Hercs can be useful but in a party with a Herc I am useless cant even auto attack without pulling agro off it.
b:victory

Honestly, I'd much rather a barb tank in squad, and pay him for his repairs, gladly, I feel much more useful debuffing, passing spark, amping, etc., than I do spamming heal but fact remains is that as long as you don't use agro attacks, and watch the herc's bash skill, and as long as the herc has a fully leveled bash, you shouldn't steal agro, provided you let it get a head start.

Holystic - Sanctuary

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

you cant do bosses like soul banisher like that, he'll eat you alive :O. yall neeeeeed BB + charm to live his ****.

Just a note on this, I just did this boss twice with no BB as a single healer. The key to this fight from a healing perspective is to stack the tank and alternate between Iron Heart and Wellspring. Use wellspring to keep tank topped off.This boss does hit very hard on tanks around 68. The BB would only be used here to 1/2 the dmg but if your IH is maxed and so is wellspring you will be fine and wont need BB

MystiBabe - Sanctuary

LMAO
Any Archer with decent gear/weapon can wait til boss is almost dead and steal grab agro off a HERC. Herc is a tank for the Veno. Herc may be useful at times but in my own personal opinion I do not like them. Learn to read the comment completely or if you don't understand ask. I don't steal agro off good Barbs but a Herc always. So how does that make me a bad archer? Seems to me that it would be the Herc was made for a class that is a Solo class not Squad. Guess that is why so many Veno's out there have the God Complex huh? They can tank everything and do everything. Makes the game so much fun...
I will stick to having the Barb tank they are the true tanks of the game.

b:kissBarb'sb:kiss

Prancers - Heavens Tear

all this mag and herc talk.blah.

i use.

-a (max skills) WOLF b:surrender

mag is too damn big always in my face. gave up at lvl 30.

this is why i love my faction!

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

its not the tank youre looking out for, its the rest of the party, im assuming looking at your level, youve only done 1-1 squad. You would know his AOE hurts like hell if youve done further, and without ~3k hp + barb buff in modes like 1-3, youll be toast without BB

Rillien - Heavens Tear

Holystic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just a note on this, I just did this boss twice with no BB as a single healer. The key to this fight from a healing perspective is to stack the tank and alternate between Iron Heart and Wellspring. Use wellspring to keep tank topped off.This boss does hit very hard on tanks around 68. The BB would only be used here to 1/2 the dmg but if your IH is maxed and so is wellspring you will be fine and wont need BB

I know it's possible to solo heal on soulbanisher (with BB), but question--what in heaven's name did you do when soulbanisher starts his aoe? Even through BB's damage reduction and ~3k pdef, I still get hit 2k at worst on his aoes. That's 4k without BB...enough to kill pretty much any 7x mage type, nevermind the fact that plenty die anyways even under damage reduction. Can you explain a bit more what you did? How did you avoid aoe?

Alphae - Lost City

MystiBabe - Sanctuary wrote: »

LMAO
Any Archer with decent gear/weapon can wait til boss is almost dead and steal grab agro off a HERC. Herc is a tank for the Veno. Herc may be useful at times but in my own personal opinion I do not like them. Learn to read the comment completely or if you don't understand ask. I don't steal agro off good Barbs but a Herc always. So how does that make me a bad archer? Seems to me that it would be the Herc was made for a class that is a Solo class not Squad. Guess that is why so many Veno's out there have the God Complex huh? They can tank everything and do everything. Makes the game so much fun...
I will stick to having the Barb tank they are the true tanks of the game.

b:kissBarb'sb:kiss

I read it sweetie, sure if you TRY you can steal agro from a herc anyone can. When using a herc, he can't spam agro skills as fast as a barb, it's just not possible, so you have to adjust your playing style, you can't macro all your DD skills, set something on the hotkey and leave... gotta even do a few normal attacks. I usually tell people not accustomed to working with herc to attack, say "one" attack again, and to alternate heavy DD skills with 2 normal attacks. Nearly always worked unless they're like, attack, "one", ZOMG ULTI.

But yes, Barbs. Always preferred by me in squad situs.

Crazy__erik - Heavens Tear

The only true TANK in this world is a Barb...A veno calling herself/himself a Tank is simpily delusional and full of their own ego. Everyone knows in this game: Ego gets people killed.
What makes this worse IMHO is a veno with a Herc. Too many times I have seen a Veno roll up, try to bump me as a Tank, and then celebrate a Victory over a boss as others lie dead.
As a true wannabe tank, every single person's health is my main concern...if anyone dies, I take it as a personal failure. As a general statement HercVenos don't. One simple statement that these venos should learn...TANKING IS NOT SOLOING!


With that said I love Venos, they are an exceelant blend of many diverse talents...and yes, I prefer them to be without a Herc. So for the opening argument in this case...NO..I would actually frown if a veno i didn't know admitted to having a Herc. I would truly prefer a Veno that knew her role. In essence this is a team sport, when a Veno's ego can't accept her role...the whole team suffers.

Bottom line: My run and I don't know you? I would be LESS apt to pick a Veno with a herc.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Just a note here on Hercs: can they really pull?

That's what a Veno's specialty really is, isn't it? (Veno pulls, barb tanks... rinse, repeat). What does a Veno have to sacrifice in order to make her Herc pull decently? And also, how many Venos really know how to pull?

According to experienced players, a well-trained Golem can do as well if not better than a Herc, same thing with Petite Sawfly vs a Phoenix.

I'm quite interested in this discussion because I'm building an Arcane Veno (lev 30 now) and, as sure as I would love to have a Herc and a Nix, my main interest lies in how to play a Veno as best as I can.

Alphae - Lost City

Hercs pull just fine. Just make sure, ffs, that reflect is not on. XD

MystiBabe - Sanctuary

My whole point was I do not use ANY SKILLS on bosses never do unless a Barb is tanking. Auto Attacking = Normal attacks no skills. but whatever no matter what I say or any other person who has stolen agro from a Herc says it wont change the fact that some Veno's with Hercs think they can do it all and do it better. Oh well, my whole point was I prefer Barbs over Hercs always will.

Alphae - Lost City

Crazy__erik - Heavens Tear wrote: »

With that said I love Venos, they are an exceelant blend of many diverse talents...and yes, I prefer them to be without a Herc. So for the opening argument in this case...NO..I would actually frown if a veno i didn't know admitted to having a Herc. I would truly prefer a Veno that knew her role. In essence this is a team sport, when a Veno's ego can't accept her role...the whole team suffers.

Bottom line: My run and I don't know you? I would be LESS apt to pick a Veno with a herc.

That's the real issue, is getting arrogant fail venos behind hercs, they make things worse than they would tanking melee by themselves in robes. At least then they would only get themselves killed. b:shocked

Herc can *never* replace a good barb, IMO, simply due to the fact they don't have as wide a range of agro skills, and can't spam them as fast. What herc can do, is save a little money on repairs, allow a veno to solo or to lead a squad without a barb+cleric, or allow a barb to not be a meat shield if he doesn't want to be that particular boss. If a barb + cleric is in a squad and the barb wants to tank, herc should be performing the role of any other pet, and veno should be debuffing, amping, spark passing.

Yes I paid for a herc, a bit of coin, a bit of cash, I paid for it to solo, not to steal a barb's role, one a barb can perform much better.

Eorween - Heavens Tear

For most outdoor boss veno with herc can handle them.
within a dungeon / fb runs herc can handle 90% of them..
TT runs with genie a very skill and fast reaction veno with proper members support can even do 1-3 drum and soul..

But as high you go herc can not handle those bosses.
for the simple reason they just hit hard as a single strike.

MOST people that want a veno in TT runs cause tank been cheap and dont want to tank all boss with high repair bill.
Yet the barb takes full credit for tanking the whole run..

95% of the high lvl players gets more and more lazy as they lvl up higher and higher..
lazy = low income = low coin = cant buy much = dont like repair bills more and more.
high lvl players = better armor = better weapon = higher repair bill.


Its very nice you offer help those that ask for help..
just remember at least half of players are bunch of tArs..

Zorish - Harshlands

Yes, they are useless


P.D= I dont have Herc

Necrosy - Sanctuary

MystiBabe - Sanctuary wrote: »

My whole point was I do not use ANY SKILLS on bosses never do unless a Barb is tanking. Auto Attacking = Normal attacks no skills. but whatever no matter what I say or any other person who has stolen agro from a Herc says it wont change the fact that some Veno's with Hercs think they can do it all and do it better. Oh well, my whole point was I prefer Barbs over Hercs always will.

i throw 2 hits i usaly pull agro from my pet and it has lvl 5 bash so dont feed me it dont got agro skill bs i have 2 end up healing runing around use iron wood and venoum then repeat anything more i end up stealing agro

i personaly think best puller pet is catapod or monkey for the range u hit before u even get looked at and u can stow pet before anything thinks of hiting

Dirty_PEET - Sanctuary

Eorween - Heavens Tear wrote: »

95% of the high lvl players gets more and more lazy as they lvl up higher and higher..
lazy = low income = low coin = cant buy much = dont like repair bills more and more.
high lvl players = better armor = better weapon = higher repair bill.

Way to go prove the "veno god complex" theory....

Alizeee - Heavens Tear

Well as far as the original post was stating- A veno without a Herc cannot do things a veno w/ a Herc can do. Same as a charmed cleric. Cleric needs to protect, all good clerics know they need MP charm. Although I agree and understand where you are coming from, it is still in best interest of player parties to have the best tools if they so wish. Better tools=better results. Another thing I wanted to respond/add to was about Veno being a puller and Herc pulling well etc. Herc pulls fine, I prefer Kowlin as best puller since he's the fastest. Nothing has ever escaped my Kowlin except a barb in TW who flew over water on his manta-lol. Also want to respond to a golem being as good as a Herc- no way! Rock pets suck! Lol. A baby bear is better suited for that argument in my opinion and still falls short on the superiority of the mighty Herc. All veno's can make enough to get a Herc eventually over time and it is worth it. I also agree strongly with an above post that says their veno not to replace a barb but for solo. Same here. Nothing can replace the exp. barbarian kitty, but they sure do appreciate a Herc who can help them save tons in repairs I assure you. I didn't get my Herc till lvl 70+ and still working on getting the phoenix. I think there should be lvl restrictions on legendary pets (like 60-70+) Trust me nobody wants a lvl 20 Veno with a Herc in their party except maybe a lvl 20ish party. HERCS RULEb:dirty

Kannone - Heavens Tear

Veno question: Don't Torg. Primes work just as well as Hercs when leveled up and all? I like to duo with a veno who doesn't have a herc, and her Torgrin can mob 3 and 4 6X mobs at a time... and seems to do fine in TTs.

So do Hercs have massively more (like 16mil coins worth more) HP & def than other pets available for less?

Dirty_PEET - Sanctuary wrote: »

Way to go prove the "veno god complex" theory....

O_o one post in 93 levels of play... I'm actually impressed...you deserve a quote for that b:chuckle

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear

The only true TANK in this world is a Barb...A veno calling herself/himself a Tank is simpily delusional and full of their own ego. Everyone knows in this game: Ego gets people killed.
What makes this worse IMHO is a veno with a Herc. Too many times I have seen a Veno roll up, try to bump me as a Tank, and then celebrate a Victory over a boss as others lie dead.
As a true wannabe tank, every single person's health is my main concern...if anyone dies, I take it as a personal failure. As a general statement HercVenos don't. One simple statement that these venos should learn...TANKING IS NOT SOLOING!

Wow, didn't know there was so much hate brewing for Herc Venos. Dont assume just cause a Veno has a Herc that they're arrogant and don't care about the other members of the party. I'm sure there are Venos like that out there just as there's Clerics and Barbs who don't give a ****. I once had a Barb claim that he could tank the last two FB69 bosses in Human mode. Needless to say, most of that party wiped. I've also had Clerics try to tell me how to do my job. If I hear one more person say "Are you sure you turned off pet skills?", I'm gonna lose it. It's not my fault my pet is 6 levels higher than the tank and he can't keep aggro even though I'm throwing him sparks everytime Lending Hand is available. I've had a Barb tell me point blank while I was pulling Wurlord that he didn't care if I died as long as he got Wurlord while he was in range of the BB. I've had Clerics ignore the rest of the party and just heal the tank even though party members were close to dying. There are jerks out there who just don't care and it's not just based on class. Just cause the Veno has a Herc doesn't make him/her one of them.

I've tanked FB79, TT 2-2, 2-3, and 3-1. Almost everytime my squad has had no casualties. The one time someone died was cause I had lag issues and the person who died was ME. Everyone else got away safely while the boss focused on me after the Herc died. Plus, I've had level 90+ archers in the fb79 squad and had no aggro issues. He was using demon spark too.

I'm not trying to replace a Barb. I've never said I can tank better than a Barb. I've gone 80+ levels on this character Herc-less. Started playing this game and character on the day it went Open Beta. I know my limitations and I know how to play my character. I got a Herc cause it expanded my limits. I can tank more bosses and help my friends out more. And yeah, making more money did factor in too.

Necrosy - Sanctuary

there are plenty of times a veno needs better pet than a herc eldergoths do 500more damage then herc of same lvl and is a tad faster in attacks but ya herc is such a godly dd that theres no other pet in game needed"sarcasm" i perfer barb tanks 2 useing herc's but in lack of a good barb ya i use a herc but most of the time a veno can be used as a pller/dd not a tank
sure there thing a veno with a herc can only do for a veno but there also things a normal pet can do that a herc cant for a veno

Allnighte - Lost City

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Would you do the same for the other classes? "Oh, look, a Wizard without full TT, YUCK! Let's leave him alone", or "Ew... a Non Tiger-Form barb, let's ignore the crappy tanker.", or "A cleric without Charm, Do not WANT."

uh, yes?

there's plenty of people who know what their job is and how to do it properly.

if you want to do your HH/FB runs with a human form barb, an archer with no bow, a cleric with lvl 1 res and lvl 10 attack skills, and a veno with a level 10 cactopod, then you can go right ahead.
I'll be doing it with proper parties much quicker than yours, and I'll lose maybe 10k on my heiro when i take aggro and the barb/veno can take it back, and i won't lose any experience.
By all means, if you want to spend all day doing your run, go through half your charm, and get yourself to 0% exp, be my guest.

some things are only herc-able. deal with it.

Smokesalot - Heavens Tear

as a barb i personally love having a veno in squad- with herc saves on repairs . without i still get bramble and sparks so either way im happy -
keep up the good work.

Naku - Lost City

Vidalaire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow, didn't know there was so much hate brewing for Herc Venos. Dont assume just cause a Veno has a Herc that they're arrogant and don't care about the other members of the party. I'm sure there are Venos like that out there just as there's Clerics and Barbs who don't give a ****. I once had a Barb claim that he could tank the last two FB69 bosses in Human mode. Needless to say, most of that party wiped. I've also had Clerics try to tell me how to do my job. If I hear one more person say "Are you sure you turned off pet skills?", I'm gonna lose it. It's not my fault my pet is 6 levels higher than the tank and he can't keep aggro even though I'm throwing him sparks everytime Lending Hand is available. I've had a Barb tell me point blank while I was pulling Wurlord that he didn't care if I died as long as he got Wurlord while he was in range of the BB. I've had Clerics ignore the rest of the party and just heal the tank even though party members were close to dying. There are jerks out there who just don't care and it's not just based on class. Just cause the Veno has a Herc doesn't make him/her one of them.

I've tanked FB79, TT 2-2, 2-3, and 3-1. Almost everytime my squad has had no casualties. The one time someone died was cause I had lag issues and the person who died was ME. Everyone else got away safely while the boss focused on me after the Herc died. Plus, I've had level 90+ archers in the fb79 squad and had no aggro issues. He was using demon spark too.

I'm not trying to replace a Barb. I've never said I can tank better than a Barb. I've gone 80+ levels on this character Herc-less. Started playing this game and character on the day it went Open Beta. I know my limitations and I know how to play my character. I got a Herc cause it expanded my limits. I can tank more bosses and help my friends out more. And yeah, making more money did factor in too.

You go girl, I aggreed 1000000% of what you said there.

Literature - Harshlands

People without a herc simply don't understand the money you can make. I can solo 1-2, 1-3, 2-1 squad. In 1-x, I can solo dementora and vipenalt. Soulbanisher can be killed with 2 people....me + cleric. I have never tried lord. In 2-1, I can do everything but General Wurlord.

With Genie Holy Path, stream powders, bramble, and some herc deaths I skip ALOT of mobs in 1-x. I'm talking two hallways of mobs + those five dragons at the end. The time for each run is probably cut in half.

I lol so hard when I see people saying "OMGz goLeM CanZ Solo sayme quest boZZ az HercuLe, JusT Get TwO VeNo." Yeah we know that. And if soloing quest mobs was the only thing herc could do, we would all have nixes.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

This isn't true on Sanctuary as they just want a certian lvl of Veno.I hear lvl 75 to 85 fot TT? all the time on world chat.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Veno question: Don't Torg. Primes work just as well as Hercs when leveled up and all? I like to duo with a veno who doesn't have a herc, and her Torgrin can mob 3 and 4 6X mobs at a time... and seems to do fine in TTs.

No, because Torgirn Primes (level 35) are not tameable. The tameable Torgirns are the Torgirn Puppet (level 29) and the Torgirn Brave (level 32), and of the two the Puppet has better stats, and they trail the Magmites by a little bit stat wise.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

Alizeee - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I didn't get my Herc till lvl 70+ and still working on getting the phoenix. I think there should be lvl restrictions on legendary pets (like 60-70+) Trust me nobody wants a lvl 20 Veno with a Herc in their party except maybe a lvl 20ish party. HERCS RULEb:dirty

Thanks for the advice, then I guess my veno can wait a bit

Alizee added:

Also want to respond to a golem being as good as a Herc- no way! Rock pets suck! Lol. A baby bear is better suited for that argument in my opinion...

How about a snow hare? Mine's pretty good so far.

Alizee also said:

Herc pulls fine, I prefer Kowlin as best puller since he's the fastest.

Tks for the tip, so I could get a Kowlin to replace my veno's Volcanic Magmite?

b:pleased

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

People without a herc simply don't understand the money you can make. I can solo 1-2, 1-3, 2-1 squad. In 1-x, I can solo dementora and vipenalt. Soulbanisher can be killed with 2 people....me + cleric. I have never tried lord. In 2-1, I can do everything but General Wurlord.

With Genie Holy Path, stream powders, bramble, and some herc deaths I skip ALOT of mobs in 1-x. I'm talking two hallways of mobs + those five dragons at the end. The time for each run is probably cut in half.

I lol so hard when I see people saying "OMGz goLeM CanZ Solo sayme quest boZZ az HercuLe, JusT Get TwO VeNo." Yeah we know that. And if soloing quest mobs was the only thing herc could do, we would all have nixes.

Lit, you simply fail because you cannot seem to grasp that a veno simply does not need a herc to make a lot of coin in the game.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Hercs are like CARS.
Its fast and efficient and gets you far, fast. It also makes you lazy and fat and once you have them, you NEED to have them cause it makes life just that easier. Also causes wide spread accidents when venos take that herc to more than they can handle.