Why are Venos without Hercs considered useless?
Comments
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OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »How does that make them useless?
When put side to side, a herc veno is superior to magmite veno, by far.
Herc veno easy to find, especially after the battlepack sale.
Therefore, magmite veno might aswell be useless - they can easily be replaced by something better.0 -
Nayiro - Sanctuary wrote: »Also, Magnamites can tank just as well as Hercs, you just need to spam heal a lot more. I mean ssrly, what did people do before herc?
If you need to spam heal a lot more then a magmite cannot tank as well as a herc. (Did I really need to say that?)
Also too bad for the magmite if youre already spam healing your herc to keep it alive.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »The thing about herc is that is has almost double the HP of the golem, and about the same pDef and a mDef that is equally very high.
Actually the thing about the herc is that it has a 2 1 hour self buffs that increase pdef and mdef to 250% of their original value. (aka a 150% increase)
*That* is what sets the herc apart from all other pets.0 -
Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually the thing about the herc is that it has a 2 1 hour self buffs that increase pdef and mdef to 250% of their original value. (aka a 150% increase)
*That* is what sets the herc apart from all other pets.
By "all other pets" do you mean the rock dude? Or every single beast even the pets that didn't even come out yet (since this is still a new game)?
b:scorn As time passes by there might be a tank pet better than the Herc.
But I see how regular venos turn to the Herc for now. As the world believes... The most popular/newest thing is the best thing. -Cough- Look how Vista turned out -Cough-The VenoX: Heavy Pure Melee (Axe User with a hint of magic) Venomancer and Proud
Having fun since lv1
5 more levels baby!
^_____^
{=^.^=} < I'll never give up. Never give in. )
I'm for The Cursed!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=6561320 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »How does that make them useless?
They are useless when you dont already have a tank.0 -
david12345 wrote: »When put side to side, a herc veno is superior to magmite veno, by far.
Herc veno easy to find, especially after the battlepack sale.
Therefore, magmite veno might aswell be useless - they can easily be replaced by something better.
Nothing you've said actually means a magmite is useless. I mean, venos with magmites are easy to find, and with the right skills a magmite can shrink the gap between the two.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »By "all other pets" do you mean the rock dude? Or every single beast even the pets that didn't even come out yet (since this is still a new game)?b:scorn
I mean all other pets currently in the game. No other pet can either self buff or be buffed to increase its pdef or mdef. (including phoenix)
As for the pets that haven't come out yet, I have yet to read up on them, or even hear about them prior to this thread.0 -
FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »i totally agree with this!
when i began playing this, back in Nov, almost no one had a herc, and few had phoenixes. the gold standard was a well levled golem, because people preferred to catch and raise their own pets, to be proud of their skills as a veno. it takes no skill to buy something, just money. another reason no one had hercs then was that venos prided themselves on having 'the right tool for the job', by having many different pets trained to handle different mobs. now people shell out money, and have a big butterball do it all, with perhaps the addition of a pet to pull. to me, this is rather sad. one of the joys of being a veno for me is variety of pets, and the point of leveling is to be able to catch new ones, to enjoy playing with them. but those who buy a herc to use all the time, are missing the whole point of being a veno, i think. its like a tool you bought, not a pet that you saw in the wild, that you saw, hunted, caught and made friends with. and to have to use only the one all the time would be so boring...like wearing the same thing daily, fighting the same mob though the whole game. i love having all my different ones, and bring out ones to partner me in battles, even though they perhaps arent the best, just to have the change in company.
another reason its not fair to diss venos without hercs is that many of us have put the money into leveling our moves and those of our pets. as one goes into the higher levels, moves become insanely expensive, and do not permit any purchases other than basics most of the time...most certainly not the buying of massive amounts of Sofs or feathers. so though we would also like to have the 'yellow barb' in our bags, we cant afford it. its that simple.
so please, when looking for venos for squads, please dont discriminate. which would you rather have: a herc that is not leveled, that will just get every one killed,just so you have the flavour of the month pet in your squad or a golem who is high level, has the moves necessary to do the job at hand?
Auto Response: I would rather have a high level Herc.0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »you cant do bosses like soul banisher like that, he'll eat you alive :O. yall neeeeeed BB + charm to live his ****.
There always many ways to defeat a boss. What you are suggesting maybe the norm but that does not mean there aren't other methods. Every single boss fight thus far I have come across can be tackled with more than one type of solution. It depends on the people in the squad to keep an open mind to try it out.0 -
Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »I mean all other pets currently in the game. No other pet can either self buff or be buffed to increase its pdef or mdef. (including phoenix)
As for the pets that haven't come out yet, I have yet to read up on them, or even hear about them prior to this thread.
Alrightb:pleased. And just for the heck of it I looked up stats of pets that people trained to lv90. You know those purple starter beatles? They are 2nd best for tank @_@. Shows what needs to be explorered more.b:thanksThe VenoX: Heavy Pure Melee (Axe User with a hint of magic) Venomancer and Proud
Having fun since lv1
5 more levels baby!
^_____^
{=^.^=} < I'll never give up. Never give in. )
I'm for The Cursed!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=6561320 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Nothing you've said actually means a magmite is useless. I mean, venos with magmites are easy to find, and with the right skills a magmite can shrink the gap between the two.
I said might aswell be useless. And they are, when put in comparison to a herc veno. Is there anything a magmite veno can do better then a herc veno? I doubt it. Of course the final result really depends on the player behind the veno; I've seen herc venos fail hard enough to make people cry in frustration.
Also why try so hard to find a magmite veno with the right skills, and still have a gap, when you can just call for a herc veno?
And actually all pets can self buff... you just need to find the skill for it.0 -
edit: ignore this0
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Titles: HP Atk P.def M.def Acc. Dodge Atk/s m/s
Herc: 4135 2672 8952 7161 2297 1225 0.8 8.1
Beetle: 2986 2137 7758 6565 1838 1021 0.8 6.5
Rocky: 2934 3240 8792 5861 1354 1003 0.6 6.2The VenoX: Heavy Pure Melee (Axe User with a hint of magic) Venomancer and Proud
Having fun since lv1
5 more levels baby!
^_____^
{=^.^=} < I'll never give up. Never give in. )
I'm for The Cursed!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=6561320 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Nothing you've said actually means a magmite is useless. I mean, venos with magmites are easy to find, and with the right skills a magmite can shrink the gap between the two.
Wow are you a ****ing logician or something? Or are you just too stupid to figure out what he means?
He's saying theres SO MANY hercs around. So why go through the trouble of finding 2-3 venos to heal on a golem when 1 herc + veno can do it?Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »Of course, nobody is going to listen to a Veno say they can tank a boss like Gouf without a pet, right? So, the Big Bad BM struts his stuff and goes in after the boss.
Then, there was the Slitt incident. I figured out how Slitt works, how to destroy him without dying, to the point where I could even solo him. I head to him to do my thing, and this Veno stops me, and asks if I can help her heal her pet, a Torgrin Brave. I know immediately, it's not going to work, and I try to tell her so, well... Long story short. I'm right. Pet drops instantly, other veno scatters. I inform her "Run. I got this." And proceed to beat the ever loving **** out of Slitt. Of course, by the time I was done, the skies above my head were filled with Wizards. Not clerics, but Wizards healing me to keep me alive. We all got a laugh out of that one. Of course, what made it even better is the squad I encountered when I went to help a Barb friend. They were armed to the teeth with Clerics etc. And they all made the mistake of staying in his AoE Manadrain. I, of course, having stepped back when they told me they only had room for my friend was beside myself with glee as I watched this huge party all complain about the manadrain.
Well your build allows you to tank things like Gouf. I can barely tank krixix's melee w/ charm and pots. As for slitt, I did him solo at the lvl I got the quest with herc. It just burned my mana.
But I didn't get a herc for quest mobs or grinding. I got a herc because of the MONEY you make in...TWILIGHT TEMPLE. And trust me, you make lots of money.
Heres an example. In just a week, I have made 16m total and 1k nix feathers. This is from Twilight Temple. Since you value smart players, let me tell you my strategy. I skip huge chunks of 1-2 and 1-3 with bramble, holy path, and stream powders. Thats how I get so many mats so fast. =D
Bow before one greater than yourself.0 -
Everyone has their own opinion as to who they want in their squad.
If they don't reply back to your offer for help, there's no need to think more about it.
But considering effectiveness of a pet, the herc does stand above with reasons already mentioned in this post.
However, it doesn't make other venos who wishes to use other pets in the wrong in any way.
It's just that the general conception in most people's mind is that the herc = safety net to a degree. The herc also provides a smaller margin for error if things do go awry or by chance the veno is inexperience or forgot to do something.
It's also a valid point to say that not all herc venos are good and not all non-herc venos are bad. But it's also valid to say that herc venos that are good are easily better not in the execution of skills but in the element of pet survivability.
For instance, a herc can allow me to lure constantly if I deem the party fit to tank a massive amount of mobs at once. Also, just in case a main tank happen to D/C or have to go, a herc can take over depending on the situation. Also, several herc venos can bind together and test new things out. A herc with blessing can tank other bosses that a normal herc can't. 2-3 venos spamming heal on one herc can help it tank a boss that it can't tank with only one veno healing. RB & channeling gears & calculating different cast speeds, allocating roles amongst herc venos, etc. Basically, a good veno will always remain a good veno no matter what pet they possess. It's just that a herc will also unveil new paths to uncover in its usage depending on which group.
Some of us do not have the time to spend all day in game and wishes to maximize efficiency and reduce margin of riskiness to the bare minimum. However, this does not apply to anyone else and neither does this thought prevail any other thoughts.
I personally have done crazy things and tried tanking many things from Krimson to TT bosses to fb bosses. It all depends on the situation and what is required of me. I'm Arcane btw.
All in all, this is a game and we want to have fun with it. However, this too may be up for debate as people find different ways of having fun which can be totally abrasive to others.
In the end, if you find the game hard to bear, step back and go do something else.
Herc venos or not, it all boils down to the veno.0 -
ABSOLUTELY!!Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »Alrightb:pleased. And just for the heck of it I looked up stats of pets that people trained to lv90. You know those purple starter beatles? They are 2nd best for tank @_@. Shows what needs to be explorered more.b:thanks
I get laughed at when I pull out my purple beetle. Until they see it leveled to the 7x's and with the right skills. Has good phys defense, has good magic defense, has good health, decent evade, and good damage. Only big difference between beetle and herc is a special skill and a bit of HP. Although its that bit of HP that really keeps it from being able to tank bosses, this can be overcome with the defense pet skills. Maxed bleed and bash can hold agro better than some barbs, and do quite a bit of damage. Spent alot of effort getting my bug right, wouldn't trade it for a herc, even if offered. My sawfly (also leveled and skilled up) for a nix on the otherhand... That could be open for discussion.
Besides, who wants to tank some boss for some ungrateful noobs anyway. It's one thing if it was a faction group wanting to do a FB or something, where you could probably grab another veno to help heal, it's another for some randoms.0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »Uh you guys seem to forget
hercs pdef move makes him have well over 24k pdef in his 90s. stacked with ~4k hp. a golem will never be as good as herc.
@ nayiro: LA wizards have stone barrier and can easily break a golems def with pdef gems. Ive seen a 9x LA wiz with 14k pdef :P
A golem, with the same skills comes pretty close except in HP, since it will have quite a bit less hp than the herc. However, a golem with the same skills would most likely cost more than a Herc..... So it would seriously be pointless.....
Herc: 4135 2672 8952 7161 (HP, Attk, Pdef, Mdef)
Golem: 2934 3240 8792 5861
Except for HP, you can get the golem to have just about the same Pdef as the herc, since it only starts with 140 less Pdef before you apply the skills.
What really makes the herc so good is the HP, since the skills you could, theoretically speaking, find them for sale and add them to the herc.
I am not saying that the people should use golem instead of herc, heck, I am saving atm to buy a herc, although I would like to see how a golem with the 150% extra Hp skill that comes with the nix, and Blessing, brumble and bash would compare against a herc (that should give the golem about 7k hp, with just about the same Pdef as the herc)... Of course it would probably cost more than just buying a herc, but it would still be interesting to compare.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I don't have a herc cause I apparently enjoy being useless, hurhurhur.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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ABSOLUTELY!!
I get laughed at when I pull out my purple beetle. Until they see it leveled to the 7x's and with the right skills. Has good phys defense, has good magic defense, has good health, decent evade, and good damage. Only big difference between beetle and herc is a special skill and a bit of HP. Although its that bit of HP that really keeps it from being able to tank bosses, this can be overcome with the defense pet skills. Maxed bleed and bash can hold agro better than some barbs, and do quite a bit of damage. Spent alot of effort getting my bug right, wouldn't trade it for a herc, even if offered. My sawfly (also leveled and skilled up) for a nix on the otherhand... That could be open for discussion.
Besides, who wants to tank some boss for some ungrateful noobs anyway. It's one thing if it was a faction group wanting to do a FB or something, where you could probably grab another veno to help heal, it's another for some randoms.
Lol, exactly. And for the best part, it doesn't cost $200b:victory
I got a Wilderness Lynx, he gets the job done but with bosses I tank it myself XP (Low magic). I would like to try the purple beetle and other pets when I get to lv100 so I can check stats and everything. And make the ultimate pet stat listb:cuteThe VenoX: Heavy Pure Melee (Axe User with a hint of magic) Venomancer and Proud
Having fun since lv1
5 more levels baby!
^_____^
{=^.^=} < I'll never give up. Never give in. )
I'm for The Cursed!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=6561320 -
Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »But I see how regular venos turn to the Herc for now. As the world believes... The most popular/newest thing is the best thing. -Cough- Look how Vista turned out -Cough-
Vista turned out crappy. However, in this case, the Herc, the newest, IS the best.
With the choice of a good veno behind both, golems are good, hercs are better, end of story. If you have a fool veno behind either, both suck.
If I have a choice between no veno, though, and a veno with a golem... well, I'd ask if the veno has a decent puller. Because then the role changes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think if you're a 9x veno and have only 1 battle pet thats kinda....not pro. ;o
If you don't have either pet at 9x then you fail at the game and at life. b:laugh
BOTTOM LINE!0 -
It's been known to happen XD
Unfortunately for venos without herc, if the instance/dungeon has no need for pulling means that the veno's role is pretty limited, and if they don't have debuffs leveled, well... it's nearly nonexistant.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »Would you do the same for the other classes? "Oh, look, a Wizard without full TT, YUCK! Let's leave him alone", or "Ew... a Non Tiger-Form barb, let's ignore the crappy tanker.", or "A cleric without Charm, Do not WANT."
If I'm looking for a good tank, I'm not going to take a barb without tiger. If I'm looking for a good dd I'm not going to take a melee wizard. If I'm looking for a cleric for a TT run I'm not going to take someone without BB (damn FACs). Given the number of venos out there with hercs, odds are you'll be able to get one without too much trouble, so if you could have a veno with herc, and without herc, why would you go for the inferior one?
And yes, there are some clerics who run around with enough focus+etc pots to keep their bb up. There are also a lot who don't. It only takes one aborted TT run because the cleric can't actually maintain their BB long enough before people start wanting charms.0 -
Tear, you just argue for the sake of being contrary, i think! hercs just make things easier....like having a calculator instead of knowing how to do math.
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »no they arent lol. im giving reasons why people need one for high end gaming, and reasons why theyre superior to a **** golem.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
...lol golem or any other tank-like pet out there..
It will have less mdef,speed,acc,dps,hp,def,evade.... less everything no matter what you do.
You get a herc, you dont really need any other ground pet.. it does it all.
So, party wise no your not useless.. you can do uummmmm a little dmg and be the party puller ****. Every party needs a **** anyways.. own it![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »Tear, you just argue for the sake of being contrary, i think! hercs just make things easier....like having a calculator instead of knowing how to do math.
Do you enjoy doing long, difficult, complicated math by hand? And in the case of mag bosses... it's like not only not having a calculator, but being thrown into calculus course without rudimentary knowledge of algebra. You might as well not even go to class. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I just pop in to say Clerics don't need charms for anything if you have yuanxiao. I haven't used nor needed a charm for hmm 1.5 months, or however long its been since Jolly was around spreading joy. b:victory
I still have nearly 2k yuanxiao and about 4.5k jiaozi to trade for more if I need. b:victory
Oh also nobody has said anything to me about needing a charm.b:pleased0 -
win :O.Alphae - Lost City wrote: »Do you enjoy doing long, difficult, complicated math by hand? And in the case of mag bosses... it's like not only not having a calculator, but being thrown into calculus course without rudimentary knowledge of algebra. You might as well not even go to class. b:surrender
why would you want a golem over a herc, its like wanting a bicycle over a car0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »dont make things up they dont add to your argument. you -need- a herc to kill those mobs during bean collecting, ive seen them kill wizards in LA who have 2x the pdef of my old golem.
it saves time and money in TT by minimizing repair costs, and makes mob luring and killing faster whether its tanking, or pulling a mob for the barb while holding its own.
5$ says i can outplay any veno without a herc, and for the most part i have yet to be proven wrong :P
FYI: you dont need MONEY to buy one, i got my legendary pets for ~40m and ive been playing maybe 3 1/2 months max
LMFAO... you just showed everyone you don't know how to play your character...
Veno + herc = solo god complex.. I try to avoid you...
I'll take a veno w/o a herc any day cause they know how to play and are not just relying on an overpowered (oh no, i said the key word) boutique item...0 -
I would rather have a Veno without a Herc in a FB or TT anyday. So tired of Veno's with Hercs thinking they can hold agro on a boss. Herc is a Tank for the Veno not for a squad especially with Archers around with high crit. Hercs can be useful but in a party with a Herc I am useless cant even auto attack without pulling agro off it.
b:victory0
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