Rei's kinda-ok guide for Heavy/Robe Fox.

mastnwm

Nice guide.

Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear

Hello, I've been reading this guide and recently been thinking of switching to heavy(/arcane) build.. Right now I play light armor and I have to agree... It's too mediocre. So my choice is to go back to arcane (which I tried and didnt like much) or go heavy armor. So what Ive read here sounds pretty good and is worth a shot I guess...

Now I have couple of questions.. First, you said heavy build veno doesnt have much mag atk difference from light veno build. How is that? I've been looking into the requirments for wearing heavy armor.. It's obvious I'll have to nurf some stats from Int. tree to get enough stats for let say lvl 60 plate.. Means I cant use my TT60 weap anymore.. Im now not sure what lvl weap it will leave me with, lol.. Anyways this kinda leads to my 2nd question..

Well, I figured what armor/weap I'll equip will have a lot to do what bonus stats I have on my gear, but.. I still gotta start somewhere so.. Will it be better to a) reach the requirments to use my current weap (let say TT60 one) and use lower lvl HA, or b) get all stats needed for heavy armor and then move on from there to pump my Int. tree for best mag weap I can equip?

Keep in mind im just lvl 6X now so.. I'll have to look into an other type of gear than those molds/TT u've mentioned. But since I'm switching between light<>heavy and not arcance<>heavy I hope it won't be too early for me... Just gotta know where I need to start and how many points to reset.. b:cute
Any advice right now would be appreciated! b:mischievous

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Imo 61 might be too early too pull it off successfully, and will cost you substantially more throughout the levels and a lot more planning.

The general consensus is it has about the same magical attack damage as a light armor build because (if you get enough +stats gear) you generally try to use the best possible weapon, so your weapons and mags will be nearly identical(not base, but after +stats anyways)

If you are dead-set on switching and you have to nerf one of your gears(weapon/armor) I'd say use lower level armor, simply because you dont get hit very often as a veno, and you'll want your weapon to be able to solo-heal TT's. You can also try finding -%requirements on armor pieces.

I also suggest getting all the equipment you'll use before restatting, then planning out how many points need to go where.(this should be an obvious thought lol)

Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear

Well, I just did a stat calculation on ecatomb to see how it possibly could turn out.. I desided to keep all my INT stats (all 185 cause 180 needed for TT60). This basically left me with one option, to get Intermediate reset note (-50 stat from one tree) and nerf my dex to put most of stats to Str. and just a few more to Dex.

Looking upon HA requirments, I built up a base of stats that would look like this for a lvl 62:
Con: 5
Str: 112
Dex: 27
Int: 185

With these stats I would be able to wear lvl 4x HA, except boots that would be lvl 36. Now I haven't taking in account +stats on gear, nor -requirments and my stat base has an extra 4 points that I shouldnt have but this will be solved somehow through -req or bonus stats, so thats no biggie.

Anyway, how did that reflect on my stats compared to my current build? No big difference in mag atk. cause I will still use same weap, the rest depends on the bonus stats etc. My phy def. would go up by approx 50%. Mag resistance went down a bit more than half.. Phy atk. went up some too. Now this was calculated using NPC 1* items only with no bonus stats and so on... Oh yeah crit/eva/dodge went down by half too..

So... What would your opinions be about this? I do feel ready to do it lol.. b:cute The only thing is Im not sure in what direction to move on from there.. Bump my Str. to get the TT70 armor? Stick with my 185 Mag for a while, right? Cant imagine myself running around with lvl 30-40 armor lol but... Im ready to try it at least. b:victory

Hazon - Sanctuary

Hi,

Right now, I'm lvl 63 and wear lvl 60 armor with lvl 63 heavy leggings, all these had reduced min requirment tats y I able to wear. I only buy and wear equipment with stats which cost me alot. My last weapon which is lvl 54 3star military sword which gave me +6 Mag, +5 Str, +4 Vit but the phy and mag attack is weak compared to lvl 60 Arbor so I switch to Arbor but Arbor dun have additional stats:(. Right now my buff phy def is 5K++, maybe not strong but at least can withstand some of my same current lvl mobs phy attack. Try to get those equipment with stats, eg with these equipment, my stat:mag is 194 and str is 136, and try to get your same lvl heavy armor with reduced requirement. My necklace and belt give me +7str each but it is pure luck to get it so try your local AH and start digging.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

@Lady
Well remember gears can have +mag on them too... so you might be able to drop your mag more, once you go accessory hunting. Also vit can be dropped down to 3, giving you 2 more stat points. Then if you work on finding some -requirement armors on top of the +stat accessories you should be a lot closer to using same level armor.

As for the drop in mdef, expected obviously lol(though you can same-level use robes too!). Drop in accuracy/evasion is pretty meaningless. Yeah the drop in crit hurts, but everything else is very good.

So like I said.. try hunting auction hosue for +stat accessories, and -requirement armors, and you might be able to pull it off(after a bit of restating). Though working this hard on low level gear is going to be kinda tedius, and to have to adjust every 10 levels(give or take). Thats why people generally tell you to wait until endgame.

Hazon - Sanctuary

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@Lady
Though working this hard on low level gear is going to be kinda tedius, and to have to adjust every 10 levels(give or take).QUOTE]

I'm totally agreed abt it... b:cry I spend 30-40% of my play time to hunt the equipments at AH or catshops, 50% for grinding to get funding and the rest is quests and FBs.

Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear

Okay guys, thx for all advices, I've been looking into acc and gear and calculated stats, so should be ready for a switch at lvl 65 and wear a full lvl 5x set.. Gonna make this work and looking forward to it. b:victory

Edit: Squeezed it all the way to lvl 6x set

Diva - Dreamweaver

This Guide came along to late! Q.Q I was Heavy/Arcane Veno before this, and man did I have on hell of a time trying to do it. I eventually figured it out but this would ahve made it so much easier, then trying to do it alone!! Lol. Very Nice guide, thanks for bringing to light some of the awesome adantages to the ever-versitaile Venomancer Class. We rock! Whoo!

Agravain - Heavens Tear

@Hazon - At your level you should be able to scrape up an additional 20 points from ornaments. Personally I don't pay a lot of attention to the star rating of jewelry. The main stat really doesn't add enough to care about. But the add stats can be great, even on a one star item. At your level between armor and ornaments I had a bonus of 40 points (in various attributes). Its dropped a bit now that Im wearing TT armor.
Just restated to this build at lvl 73. Was a heavy armor build all my life and luved every level of it. Going mag might have been a bit ezer in some ways though, and more useful in parties. Previous build had way to much vit. Dropping the vit has not dramatically affected my HP. Guess I should have thought of that a long time ago. The added magic is great. Got just enough mag for the TT60 Ancient Arbor. Boosted it with a few refinements and gems. Makes a world of difference on pet heal. Had calculated my pet heal at about 200 less than mag build. Now I estimate its about 100 less.

Hazon - Sanctuary

Hi Agravain

My current total additional stats from my gears are 41points. I agreed with u that it doesn't matter how many stars in the gear, as long as it gives a lot of stat, it is a great gear/ornament. I prefer lower requirement armors or leggings, cos I want the armor or leggings to be close to my current lvl and I can save the stat on str to pump more on magic.

Xelea - Heavens Tear

Heary armour veno= fail nuff said. You have been trolled.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Xelea - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heary armour veno= fail nuff said. You have been trolled.

You're fail. Fail troll.

Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're fail. Fail troll.

He/she didnt say "heavy".... I think she meant "hairy" b:chuckleb:chuckle I wanna try that build..

Ayeshah - Sanctuary

Which lvl90 heavy set is prefered, TT90 with the better HP bonuses or legendary lvl90 with better movspeed and mag defense (assuming they get socketed with +hp stones and +5 refine, at least) ?

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Well if you're using the heavy/mage armour hybrid already there's not much need for magic defense on your heavy armour, movespeed isn't really a priority when it comes to stat bonuses either. I mean you've already got a speed buff at hand+ speed pots. Also if you choose the 89 demon cultivation and you can aquire the fox form demon skill, you can get a 60% speed increase by changing to human/fox/human/fox ect every 6 seconds. (It's so fast! O_o;)

Personally I'd go with the HP since it's probably the only pitfall to this build.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Xelea - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heary armour veno= fail nuff said. You have been trolled.

Actually you should find out facts first. It seems that venos are moving to mixed. As for heavy armor venos, they don't fail unless they die alot.b:pleased

Reikara - Heavens Tear

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually you should find out facts first. It seems that venos are moving to mixed. As for heavy armor venos, they don't fail unless they die alot.b:pleased

lol. Which is a well known fact that arcane venos do :P
(No offence )

solarraa

I met you last night Rei and thanks for all the great info:) I was wondering would this build be good for people that don't do Pvp or Tw?

Thx,
Solarraa

Hazon - Sanctuary

Just curious and also for my future skills, which one is better for our built, sage/demon?

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Highly dependant on playstyle. So long as you intend to stay caster though, I would go with demon, simply based on the level 89 skills, since the other skillbooks are nearly impossible to obtain.

Peoples main argument about going sage is extra 30% def in foxform, but the fact remains... if I'm jumping in foxform it's because I'm dying.. to a MAGIC attack.. extra pdef isnt going to make a damn difference, but the speed boost demon provides will allow you to kite.

brentbest

should i learn fox or mage skills?

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear

Okay.... So I am heading towards 80, and at 89 I am going to go demon (for the attack bonus).
I also own a nix and a herc.
Currently I am a LA veno, but I want to go to heavy. I read that a heavy + nix = really good for PVP, but with that be a vaiable option with a demon? I know that sage gives very nice pdef bonus for skills, but how would a demon do with this?
Since demon boosts mostly your m.attack skills and since heavy doenst excell in this, should I maybe go sage then? Note: I also PVP a LOT.

What should I do for maximum PVP performance?
Thanks!

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

heavy armor has ****ty magic defense,
robe has ****ty physical defense.

LA is the perfect balance between the two, but has a lower HP amount as its downfall.

damage wise, you need to be on your bird to optimize phoenix in TW, so like, heavy would be the least damaging; relying more on phoenix, and robe would have the best dmg to support the bird for quicker kills. demon is way too random, and sage has way better M.Attk buffs/enhances your debuffs. I dont know where you came to the conclusion demon helps your m atk, its more about crit/cool downs :P.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

heavy armor has ****ty magic defense,
robe has ****ty physical defense.

LA is the perfect balance between the two, but has a lower HP amount as its downfall.

damage wise, you need to be on your bird to optimize phoenix in TW, so like, heavy would be the least damaging; relying more on phoenix, and robe would have the best dmg to support the bird for quicker kills. demon is way too random, and sage has way better M.Attk buffs/enhances your debuffs. I dont know where you came to the conclusion demon helps your m atk, its more about crit/cool downs :P.

Based soley on FB89 skill books(as most people wont ever attain any of the other skills), Demon ftw.

Also about LA being the most balanced, fyi HA build CAN wear the best robes too, and mix and match to achieve higher mag/phys defences than LA. It's the most versitile for survivability. It's DD is not giped as everyone implies either.

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear

So, Obsessed. When you say the DD is not as gimped as ppl say it is do you mean that HA venos are still really good for PVP damage? Due to the crappy magic stat how can the m.attack be good? P.attack on the other hand is okay I guess but still, unless you have something like the [ahem... unattainable] mysto caster how can magic swords be good? Sure, you may get 700 p.attack with a Sakayumi's Light if you + the hell out of it, but is that really good? and after all then you are only pretty much limited to using fox form skills in PVP right?
I want to turn my veno into a successful PVPer (not that it isnt) but it just seems that both phys and mag attacks will in fact be gimped since you have good m.attack weapon but not enough mag to utilize it to its full potential and crappy p.attack that you can only use as a fox...

Someone should make (or add to this guide) how to : PVP with Heavy Fox

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Based soley on FB89 skill books(as most people wont ever attain any of the other skills), Demon ftw.

Also about LA being the most balanced, fyi HA build CAN wear the best robes too, and mix and match to achieve higher mag/phys defences than LA. It's the most versitile for survivability. It's DD is not giped as everyone implies either.

according to your pictures, your buffed matk, is what mine is without buff and a lower weapon. a LA build would have better stat distribution and has nearly the same dmg as me :P.

LA is fine, heavy armor is like having one leg and no prosthetic to try and win the 50m dash.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, Obsessed. When you say the DD is not as gimped as ppl say it is do you mean that HA venos are still really good for PVP damage? Due to the crappy magic stat how can the m.attack be good? P.attack on the other hand is okay I guess but still, unless you have something like the [ahem... unattainable] mysto caster how can magic swords be good? Sure, you may get 700 p.attack with a Sakayumi's Light if you + the hell out of it, but is that really good? and after all then you are only pretty much limited to using fox form skills in PVP right?
I want to turn my veno into a successful PVPer (not that it isnt) but it just seems that both phys and mag attacks will in fact be gimped since you have good m.attack weapon but not enough mag to utilize it to its full potential and crappy p.attack that you can only use as a fox...

Someone should make (or add to this guide) how to : PVP with Heavy Fox

I rarely use physical attack/foxform in pvp. Human spells work just fine, but I can if I wanted to, use foxform.. Melafalic Crush hits like 3k on robies.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

according to your pictures, your buffed matk, is what mine is without buff and a lower weapon. a LA build would have better stat distribution and has nearly the same dmg as me :P.

LA is fine, heavy armor is like having one leg and no prosthetic to try and win the 50m dash.

Go figure your arcane build has more mag dmg, NO FREAKING WAY.

Crappy magic stat my ****, I've explained it 1000000000 times. Same weapon, same magic stat as LA Build = SAME DAMAGE. I know Tears just a troll who doesn't like this build with a passion, but seriously it's getting rediculous.

The top 3 recomended veno pvp builds... notice anything?

(lvl 90)-LA build- mag stat w/adds:
270
(lvl 90)-HA build- mag stat w/adds:
270
(lvl 90)-Pure vit robe- mag stat w/adds:
270

Asuming they wear the exact same weapon, guess what, their magic damage will be the same.

---

The only differences between the builds are for Mag attack is with -channeling and +crit. Which HA is limited against using.

I know people dont like the build, but dont go around misinforming people with bullpoop, please.

I'm done defending the build in general, I try to help people understand it and get flamed by people who havent even tried it and are going off word of mouth.(FYI I've played the 3 main veno builds) Anyone who I've pvp'd with in HT, I'm sure, would vouch for how good the build is.

People dont go AHH robe veno, but they do for Heavy.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

assuming you go for typical LA build, youd have a minimum of 287 magic with a 3 mag 1 str 1 dex build at your level, factor in any +mag they may have, while youre tying to manage to meet the stats, the LA will have more mag. I dont see how 270 = 287+.

mixing LA with robe would get better balance of mdef/pdef too.

150% pdef holds better too than faster running speed,
40% pdef debuff > 20% for 0
venomous... well thats debatable xD.

the build in my opinion isnt as good as the others cept maybe against melees

Akiratojo - Heavens Tear

Its okay Obsessed, HA is awesome, and your points are valid.
Therefore Obsessed FTW
(and so is HA)
kthxbai