Does anyone think these changes will help the PvE TR in getting groups? I am uncertain but my initial impression is no. Now if they will also go back and modify the other classes and bring them down to the level of the TR I think these could be some of the greatest changes around, but I am not sure if that is the way they are thinking.
From my testing so far I see the executioner as a weaker gwf or melee HR. I see the scoundrel as a poor mans CW (but damned the fun of the scoundrel). I find the saboteur as an even easier perma stealth with slightly more damage and lots of diversity in play.
It's not going to change anything when it comes to getting into party-level PvE content... ie., dungeons, skirmishes, etc.. It will most likely take the most profound effect in PvP, and to a lesser extent, but still important nonetheless, in solo-PvE content.
In party-PvE content, the only change that will bring TRs a place, is when the current GWF-CW (plus a DC as a heal-slave) standard comes crashing down... and IMO that can only happen when the difficulty level of future PvE content changes/shifts towards significantly harder levels.
Gaining a place in a party never was about how the TR performs. It never was. When a content is so easy, the only thing matters is the clear time/ease/efficiency of the dungeon run. Under this premise anything that's not a GWF/CW is all the same. TRs, HRs, GFs, even SWs, and even DPS DCs. It's only when people begin to be concerned about safety and avoiding team-wipes, that other classes start receiving actual roles.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Just want to chime in that as a Fury SW I've enjoyed running with the new TR build with the Stun effects. In add clearing it's great, as the baddies just stand still and let me melt them.
That being said, on live, I frequently take all classes on runs in my Guild. TRs included, and will continue to do so post-Mod 5... I like mixing up party make ups, as it keeps things fresh. That's just me though, and I'm not into the 'endless AD dungeon running' grinding, but hey it's how I play the game!
It's not going to change anything when it comes to getting into party-level PvE content... ie., dungeons, skirmishes, etc.. It will most likely take the most profound effect in PvP, and to a lesser extent, but still important nonetheless, in solo-PvE content.
In party-PvE content, the only change that will bring TRs a place, is when the current GWF-CW (plus a DC as a heal-slave) standard comes crashing down... and IMO that can only happen when the difficulty level of future PvE content changes/shifts towards significantly harder levels.
Gaining a place in a party never was about how the TR performs. It never was. When a content is so easy, the only thing matters is the clear time/ease/efficiency of the dungeon run. Under this premise anything that's not a GWF/CW is all the same. TRs, HRs, GFs, even SWs, and even DPS DCs. It's only when people begin to be concerned about safety and avoiding team-wipes, that other classes start receiving actual roles.
So let me get this straight.
"It's not that the class is weak, other classes are too strong."
"It's not that the class is weak, it's that the dungeon design is too easy."
So..... in other words, you want them to re-balance EVERYTHING but the rogue class. Are you so blind as to ignore that this just isn't going to happen?
Gaining a place in a party never was about how the TR performs.
When a content is so easy, the only thing matters is the clear time/ease/efficiency of the dungeon run.
These two statements are clearly contradictory. Performance DOES matter. Else, high performance classes would not be getting triple stacked over rainbow parties.
I see nothing in the preview changes to date that bring the TR class to the same level of performance as any other class, much less CWs/GWFs. This is done precisely by looking beyond the paingiver chart at what each class has to offer in party dynamics and support.
Having said that, I do, in general see the changes as an improvement. I think skilled, BIS rogues with perfect rotations and vorp enchants are going to be decent, and possibly even shine when surrounded by incompetence/wet behind the ears types.
But I highly doubt the vast majority of TR players, and especially the new ones are going to find solace in your answers.
Now, back to the topic of this thread.
Feedback of latest changes and where the TR class sits in preview.
Duelist flurry - The QOL improvement of the new DF is hard to quantify. Such a simple change and yet now with the new DF and new dazing strike I'm starting to feel very roguish.
Gloaming cut - Damage seemed more appropriate. However, one thing I forgot to take into account on my earlier feedback of the power is that I have a perfect vorpal enchantment, anyone without one would certainly have a different impression on it's damage output.
Cloud of steel - There was very little danger of this ability becoming too powerful in PVP or PVE the second stealth drain was implemented. No one is going to let a rogue out of stealth chuck daggers at them for any appreciable length of time. In PVE COS didn't exactly do stellar damage even with combat advantage with 12 charges. I rather like the idea of COS having no charges, but at the moment time is better spent on using any other at-will. COS needed a buff, base damage reduced, stacking damage removed, activation time increased....... overall this comes across as a nerf. I'd say one of the three nerfs would have been appropriate, but not all three, stacking damage capped at 8 stacks of course.
Right now I can chuck daggers at something for 10 seconds straight before it dies, or I can hit it with one encounter, COS on preview is just pathetic.
Sly flourish - Didn't notice any real change here, certainly nothing to make it worth slotting or as viable as in live.
Dodge change - love it, goes a long way towards making me feel more mobile after the loss of speed from less stealth, and on live it seems I'm always out of dodges, especially in shores of Tuern.
Overall impression.
This has been mentioned before, but stats are a mess. I didn't realize just how bad it was until I recently tested them. In a way it's kind of odd, because str, con, dex, int, and cha are all kinda equally viable, with dex now the weakest of those. Which is to say they all are terrible. Combat advantage damage from Cha is barely noticeable, damage bonus from str is barely noticeable, crit from dex is much less useful, con and int are not supposed to be rogue stats and yet probably give the best bonuses, but just one bonus. I'd say dex, str, and cha could all use a boost, but at the very least give dex one, it's a rogue's main stat.
Rogue is moderate AOE, moderate single target, and 0 party utility. Rogue is making progress towards being viable but they are still a far step short. To be equally viable as other classes in PVE content the rogue class either needs to be good AOE, great single target, or have some kind of party utility - like their own set of class specific buffs and debuffs, nothing on the level of GF or DC, just something. No class really has single target damage that is far and above their AOE capability, so I feel that rogues could safely occupy that role without pushing any other class out. I'm getting the feeling that rogue single target is not going to be drastically improved. In which case giving Whirlwind of blades a 10 target cap would go a long way. We really have no other PVE daily to speak of, and at a 10 target cap WOB is hardly more powerful than oppressive force or avalanche of steel. Also, this has been said many times before, but smoke bomb really needs a DOT or a debuff feature, doesn't have to be over the top, just something.
"It's not that the class is weak, other classes are too strong."
"It's not that the class is weak, it's that the dungeon design is too easy."
So..... in other words, you want them to re-balance EVERYTHING but the rogue class. Are you so blind as to ignore that this just isn't going to happen?
These two statements are clearly contradictory. Performance DOES matter. Else, high performance classes would not be getting triple stacked over rainbow parties.
I see nothing in the preview changes to date that bring the TR class to the same level of performance as any other class, much less CWs/GWFs. This is done precisely by looking beyond the paingiver chart at what each class has to offer in party dynamics and support.
Having said that, I do, in general see the changes as an improvement. I think skilled, BIS rogues with perfect rotations and vorp enchants are going to be decent, and possibly even shine when surrounded by incompetence/wet behind the ears types.
But I highly doubt the vast majority of TR players, and especially the new ones are going to find solace in your answers.
Now, back to the topic of this thread.
Feedback of latest changes and where the TR class sits in preview.
Duelist flurry - The QOL improvement of the new DF is hard to quantify. Such a simple change and yet now with the new DF and new dazing strike I'm starting to feel very roguish.
Gloaming cut - Damage seemed more appropriate. However, one thing I forgot to take into account on my earlier feedback of the power is that I have a perfect vorpal enchantment, anyone without one would certainly have a different impression on it's damage output.
Cloud of steel - There was very little danger of this ability becoming too powerful in PVP or PVE the second stealth drain was implemented. No one is going to let a rogue out of stealth chuck daggers at them for any appreciable length of time. In PVE COS didn't exactly do stellar damage even with combat advantage with 12 charges. I rather like the idea of COS having no charges, but at the moment time is better spent on using any other at-will. COS needed a buff, base damage reduced, stacking damage removed, activation time increased....... overall this comes across as a nerf. I'd say one of the three nerfs would have been appropriate, but not all three, stacking damage capped at 8 stacks of course.
Right now I can chuck daggers at something for 10 seconds straight before it dies, or I can hit it with one encounter, COS on preview is just pathetic.
Sly flourish - Didn't notice any real change here, certainly nothing to make it worth slotting or as viable as in live.
Dodge change - love it, goes a long way towards making me feel more mobile after the loss of speed from less stealth, and on live it seems I'm always out of dodges, especially in shores of Tuern.
Overall impression.
This has been mentioned before, but stats are a mess. I didn't realize just how bad it was until I recently tested them. In a way it's kind of odd, because str, con, dex, int, and cha are all kinda equally viable, with dex now the weakest of those. Which is to say they all are terrible. Combat advantage damage from Cha is barely noticeable, damage bonus from str is barely noticeable, crit from dex is much less useful, con and int are not supposed to be rogue stats and yet probably give the best bonuses, but just one bonus. I'd say dex, str, and cha could all use a boost, but at the very least give dex one, it's a rogue's main stat.
Rogue is moderate AOE, moderate single target, and 0 party utility. Rogue is making progress towards being viable but they are still a far step short. To be equally viable as other classes in PVE content the rogue class either needs to be good AOE, great single target, or have some kind of party utility - like their own set of class specific buffs and debuffs, nothing on the level of GF or DC, just something. No class really has single target damage that is far and above their AOE capability, so I feel that rogues could safely occupy that role without pushing any other class out. I'm getting the feeling that rogue single target is not going to be drastically improved. In which case giving Whirlwind of blades a 10 target cap would go a long way. We really have no other PVE daily to speak of, and at a 10 target cap WOB is hardly more powerful than oppressive force or avalanche of steel. Also, this has been said many times before, but smoke bomb really needs a DOT or a debuff feature, doesn't have to be over the top, just something.
I've got nothing more to say to whiney QQrs. I'm not doing this any more in the Feedback thread.
If you want to keep doing this, come to the Thieve's Den.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I've got nothing more to say to whiney QQrs. I'm not doing this any more in the Feedback thread.
If you want to keep doing this, come to the Thieve's Den.
i wouldnt worry about this. Kwe is one of the few who are happy about changes. ACtually, if kwe had actually did some testing on the recent at will changes he/she would notice that sly hasnt changed and CoS isnt working properly as i have mentioned in several posts with images of testing.
the fault in Kwe's 'testing', is he/she does not compare the TR to other classes according to performance. even with all these changes the TR is still short on sustained dps and survivabilty. This has been confirmed in this thread countless times.
The simple fact is: TR still under performs and we all know it.
i wouldnt worry about this. Kwe is one of the few who are happy about changes. ACtually, if kwe had actually did some testing on the recent at will changes he/she would notice that sly hasnt changed and CoS isnt working properly as i have mentioned in several posts with images of testing.
the fault in Kwe's 'testing', is he/she does not compare the TR to other classes according to performance. even with all these changes the TR is still short on sustained dps and survivabilty. This has been confirmed in this thread countless times.
The simple fact is: TR still under performs and we all know it.
What did you expect if they first thing they announced about rework to worst class in game was that they are going to destroy their tab because it's too easy to play XD Also the person you answered to will always flip facts upside down to fit ridiculous theory he used to make. Most of time he spends on ridiculous theories that TR is fine and everything is bad, like shadowbunslice already said.
While it comes to rework if they wanted to fill people with hope and show them they really care they should have started it other way around. First thing they should have done was announcing that they will fix all bugs which were never fixed from beta:
[*]ITC bugging, that means you are many times affraid to use your skill to not waste it...
[*]Shadow strike fix that no longer wastes when someone disappears or run too far
[*]Hard target cheat which makes stealth useless it's same thing as they would allow people to write command to disable divine mode or unstoppable or just lock HR on 1 tab untill HR is dead or other command to disable GF shield
[*]-before even idea they made to destroy TR tab as it is now they would rework first that TR is no longer dependent from tab, that tab is same addition as other class have tab
That is how rework should have been done.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
We see changes but couldnt feel improvement because they upgrade less and nerf more. This changes wasnt all about our feedbacks it is base on other class complaints about how OP stealth is in pvp and how they hate TR. Further feedbacks wont help, this nerfs will dawn on us soon but Im sure we will find a way to adjust and still be rogues.
We see changes but couldnt feel improvement because they upgrade less and nerf more. This changes wasnt all about our feedbacks it is base on other class complaints about how OP stealth is in pvp and how they hate TR. Further feedbacks wont help, this nerfs will dawn on us soon but Im sure we will find a way to adjust and still be rogues.
until walking doesnt deplete stealth i know for sure what i will be doing
I think the devs idea actually is to prevent that again, to make a class OP and then having to nerf again, specially for the TR that has received only nerfs since beta.
BUGS: (not nerw ones but still)
-Bait and switch dummy is ignored by most high level enemies, this makes the skill basically useless, if not for the stealth recovery.
-Shadow strike doesn't work many times, goes on cooldown (or not) after activation but stealth meter isn't replenished.
I don't PVP anymore so I can't comment on that, but on the PVE side I feel like I'm doing more damage and helping more on the preview server than on live server. So to me it's a good change, it still should be better but it's a good change.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I don't want the TR to be OP when it hits live. For all of the progress and good ideas, where are we? Weak and underpowered with the only viable pvp path being PERMA Stealth. Which means very little has been solved.
Do you remember how it was as we were leveling up from lvl 11 - 40 in pvp?
At certain levels some classes were more powerful than others regardless of gear, because of skills that unlocked for them at those levels.
Once we hit level 60, the main things that makes up dominate people in pvp and smash all pve are our items/enchantments.
Thus said, we cannot begin to claim OP or anything based on these changes when most of peoples power will not come from these changes, but from their gear.
Strip down naked and use a transmute weapon to do all your tests on whats op and whats not and the results will come out a little better.
I know you understand this because you do your tests in preview without companions, our gear has equal effect as companions do in pvp/pve.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
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orodalfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
Feedback: Stealth-increasing Bonuses Improved Cunning Sneak and all PvP armors' effects are now thoroughly useless; they extend your Stealth meter, but your At-Wills reduce your Stealth by 15% of the augmented amount instead of 15% of the original amount. In other words, even if I have equipped Profound Armor and the Improved Cunning Sneak feat and am supposed to have 150% Stealth, I can still only use at-wills 6 times instead of 10 before my Stealth is completely gone.
This would also hold true when taking damage as well since it is percentile drain based oh hp loss, so the stealth extending effects would only exist when in stealth and not attacking or taking damage but for taking damage it could be mitigated or fully neutralized via TC and offhand artifact weapon. Unless going saboteur I had already decided that ICS would be likely best passed by for any other feat.
This would also hold true when taking damage as well since it is percentile drain based oh hp loss, so the stealth extending effects would only exist when in stealth and not attacking or taking damage but for taking damage it could be mitigated or fully neutralized via TC and offhand artifact weapon. Unless going saboteur I had already decided that ICS would be likely best passed by for any other feat.
so maybe they can give stealth 1.5 sec more , and substitute I.cunning sneak with 4-8-12-16-20 more deflect severity??
this should hopefully solve survivability problems. it's impossible to go over 45% even the cheesiest roll ever.
losing that 1.5 sec more is however out of question, stealth would be even more meaningless
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
BUGS: (not nerw ones but still)
-Shadow strike doesn't work many times, goes on cooldown (or not) after activation but stealth meter isn't replenished.
As far as I can tell, this happens when you use Shadow Strike on a target just as it dies. It happens if someone else kills the target as your Shadow Strike activates, so it isn't restricted to SS striking the killing blow either.
We are making a couple more improvements to some underperforming (or awkwardly performing powers) to open up some new power choices in situations where they were not viable before.
Broken Armor: This debuff now reduces the target's damage resistance by 10% (up from 5).
Trickster Rogue: Sly Flourish: Now applies Broken Armor for 15 seconds (up from 6).
Trickster Rogue: Sly Flourish: Overall damage now increased by 15% on all strikes.
Trickster Rogue: Cloud of Steel: Applies a stacking damage buff on the target for 4 seconds. Each stack increases the damage of Cloud of Steel by 5%, stacking up to 8 times.
Trickster Rogue: Bait and Switch: The Bait and Switch Dummy will now more effectively taunt targets and grab their attention.
Trickster Rogue: Smoke Bomb now deals Poison damage over time to all targets caught within it.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth Depletion: Stealth depletion is now based on base stealth Duration rather than modified duration.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
so maybe they can give stealth 1.5 sec more , and substitute I.cunning sneak with 4-8-12-16-20 more deflect severity??
this should hopefully solve survivability problems. it's impossible to go over 45% even the cheesiest roll ever.
losing that 1.5 sec more is however out of question, stealth would be even more meaningless
If that be the case:
base stealth duration should be increased b +4s = 10 seconds
set bonus of skulker/profound gear changed to provide some other special defensive bonus..
ex) stealth depletion from at-wills is reduced by 5%
ICS changed to 2/4/6/8/10% deflection chance
the Sharandar campaign boon which offers deflect severity working correctly, boosted to 5%
IMO 10s stealth duration should be the standard for all TR builds. No higher, no less.
All of these changes I am greatly pleased with, only work under the assumption that the stealth is around 10seconds, since I use both ICS and profound gear. Were I to use Black Ice or Draconic gear that drops my stealth to 6s default, with only a 1.2s increase from ICS, then none of the changes would work, not even for me.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
Now that looks like some response to player feedback.
Can anyone clarify if the Broken Armor debuff is for allies or just self?
We are making a couple more improvements to some underperforming (or awkwardly performing powers) to open up some new power choices in situations where they were not viable before.
Broken Armor: This debuff now reduces the target's damage resistance by 10% (up from 5).
Trickster Rogue: Sly Flourish: Now applies Broken Armor for 15 seconds (up from 6).
Trickster Rogue: Sly Flourish: Overall damage now increased by 15% on all strikes.
Trickster Rogue: Cloud of Steel: Applies a stacking damage buff on the target for 4 seconds. Each stack increases the damage of Cloud of Steel by 5%, stacking up to 8 times.
Trickster Rogue: Bait and Switch: The Bait and Switch Dummy will now more effectively taunt targets and grab their attention.
Trickster Rogue: Smoke Bomb now deals Poison damage over time to all targets caught within it.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth Depletion: Stealth depletion is now based on base stealth Duration rather than modified duration.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Oh my god..
With the Smoke Bomb changes, you've made happy a LOT of TRs I know. It also means a WHOLE NEW level of PvE playing field...an AoE neutralization power that also deals (perhaps very small, but still) damage... !!
Thanks for the update!
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Trickster Rogue: Smoke Bomb now deals Poison damage over time to all targets caught within it.
To make it better for PvE, less effective in 1v1 PvP and more skill involved power, let Smoke Bomb deal medium base poison damage and more damage for every target hit.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
To make it better for PvE, less effective in 1v1 PvP and more skill involved power, let Smoke Bomb deal medium base poison damage and more damage for every target hit.
definitely not.
i dont want to play perma stealth all my life.
i have to see damage worth of me being unstealthed.
WOOOOOOOW awesome changes! So glad to hear about the bait and switch dummy AND the smoke bomb one!
thanks so much!
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orodalfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
Thanks for responding with that change to Stealth Depletion! I have another piece of Feedback concerning Stealth Depletion.
Feedback: Stealth Depletion on At-Will use Please let the Stealth Depletion on At-Will use be dependent on the time used on that At-Will instead of a flat 15% per hit.
Feedback: Shadowy Opportunity Likewise, please make Shadowy Opportunity damage scale with channeling time of the relevant attack instead of a flat 75% weapon damage per hit.
These changes would be in line with your proposed changes to the way weapon enhancements work, Chris.
Comments
It's not going to change anything when it comes to getting into party-level PvE content... ie., dungeons, skirmishes, etc.. It will most likely take the most profound effect in PvP, and to a lesser extent, but still important nonetheless, in solo-PvE content.
In party-PvE content, the only change that will bring TRs a place, is when the current GWF-CW (plus a DC as a heal-slave) standard comes crashing down... and IMO that can only happen when the difficulty level of future PvE content changes/shifts towards significantly harder levels.
Gaining a place in a party never was about how the TR performs. It never was. When a content is so easy, the only thing matters is the clear time/ease/efficiency of the dungeon run. Under this premise anything that's not a GWF/CW is all the same. TRs, HRs, GFs, even SWs, and even DPS DCs. It's only when people begin to be concerned about safety and avoiding team-wipes, that other classes start receiving actual roles.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Just want to chime in that as a Fury SW I've enjoyed running with the new TR build with the Stun effects. In add clearing it's great, as the baddies just stand still and let me melt them.
That being said, on live, I frequently take all classes on runs in my Guild. TRs included, and will continue to do so post-Mod 5... I like mixing up party make ups, as it keeps things fresh. That's just me though, and I'm not into the 'endless AD dungeon running' grinding, but hey it's how I play the game!
So let me get this straight.
"It's not that the class is weak, other classes are too strong."
"It's not that the class is weak, it's that the dungeon design is too easy."
So..... in other words, you want them to re-balance EVERYTHING but the rogue class. Are you so blind as to ignore that this just isn't going to happen?
These two statements are clearly contradictory. Performance DOES matter. Else, high performance classes would not be getting triple stacked over rainbow parties.
I see nothing in the preview changes to date that bring the TR class to the same level of performance as any other class, much less CWs/GWFs. This is done precisely by looking beyond the paingiver chart at what each class has to offer in party dynamics and support.
Having said that, I do, in general see the changes as an improvement. I think skilled, BIS rogues with perfect rotations and vorp enchants are going to be decent, and possibly even shine when surrounded by incompetence/wet behind the ears types.
But I highly doubt the vast majority of TR players, and especially the new ones are going to find solace in your answers.
Now, back to the topic of this thread.
Feedback of latest changes and where the TR class sits in preview.
Duelist flurry - The QOL improvement of the new DF is hard to quantify. Such a simple change and yet now with the new DF and new dazing strike I'm starting to feel very roguish.
Gloaming cut - Damage seemed more appropriate. However, one thing I forgot to take into account on my earlier feedback of the power is that I have a perfect vorpal enchantment, anyone without one would certainly have a different impression on it's damage output.
Cloud of steel - There was very little danger of this ability becoming too powerful in PVP or PVE the second stealth drain was implemented. No one is going to let a rogue out of stealth chuck daggers at them for any appreciable length of time. In PVE COS didn't exactly do stellar damage even with combat advantage with 12 charges. I rather like the idea of COS having no charges, but at the moment time is better spent on using any other at-will. COS needed a buff, base damage reduced, stacking damage removed, activation time increased....... overall this comes across as a nerf. I'd say one of the three nerfs would have been appropriate, but not all three, stacking damage capped at 8 stacks of course.
Right now I can chuck daggers at something for 10 seconds straight before it dies, or I can hit it with one encounter, COS on preview is just pathetic.
Sly flourish - Didn't notice any real change here, certainly nothing to make it worth slotting or as viable as in live.
Dodge change - love it, goes a long way towards making me feel more mobile after the loss of speed from less stealth, and on live it seems I'm always out of dodges, especially in shores of Tuern.
Overall impression.
This has been mentioned before, but stats are a mess. I didn't realize just how bad it was until I recently tested them. In a way it's kind of odd, because str, con, dex, int, and cha are all kinda equally viable, with dex now the weakest of those. Which is to say they all are terrible. Combat advantage damage from Cha is barely noticeable, damage bonus from str is barely noticeable, crit from dex is much less useful, con and int are not supposed to be rogue stats and yet probably give the best bonuses, but just one bonus. I'd say dex, str, and cha could all use a boost, but at the very least give dex one, it's a rogue's main stat.
Rogue is moderate AOE, moderate single target, and 0 party utility. Rogue is making progress towards being viable but they are still a far step short. To be equally viable as other classes in PVE content the rogue class either needs to be good AOE, great single target, or have some kind of party utility - like their own set of class specific buffs and debuffs, nothing on the level of GF or DC, just something. No class really has single target damage that is far and above their AOE capability, so I feel that rogues could safely occupy that role without pushing any other class out. I'm getting the feeling that rogue single target is not going to be drastically improved. In which case giving Whirlwind of blades a 10 target cap would go a long way. We really have no other PVE daily to speak of, and at a 10 target cap WOB is hardly more powerful than oppressive force or avalanche of steel. Also, this has been said many times before, but smoke bomb really needs a DOT or a debuff feature, doesn't have to be over the top, just something.
I've got nothing more to say to whiney QQrs. I'm not doing this any more in the Feedback thread.
If you want to keep doing this, come to the Thieve's Den.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i wouldnt worry about this. Kwe is one of the few who are happy about changes. ACtually, if kwe had actually did some testing on the recent at will changes he/she would notice that sly hasnt changed and CoS isnt working properly as i have mentioned in several posts with images of testing.
the fault in Kwe's 'testing', is he/she does not compare the TR to other classes according to performance. even with all these changes the TR is still short on sustained dps and survivabilty. This has been confirmed in this thread countless times.
The simple fact is: TR still under performs and we all know it.
What did you expect if they first thing they announced about rework to worst class in game was that they are going to destroy their tab because it's too easy to play XD Also the person you answered to will always flip facts upside down to fit ridiculous theory he used to make. Most of time he spends on ridiculous theories that TR is fine and everything is bad, like shadowbunslice already said.
While it comes to rework if they wanted to fill people with hope and show them they really care they should have started it other way around. First thing they should have done was announcing that they will fix all bugs which were never fixed from beta:
[*]ITC bugging, that means you are many times affraid to use your skill to not waste it...
[*]Shadow strike fix that no longer wastes when someone disappears or run too far
[*]Hard target cheat which makes stealth useless it's same thing as they would allow people to write command to disable divine mode or unstoppable or just lock HR on 1 tab untill HR is dead or other command to disable GF shield
[*]-before even idea they made to destroy TR tab as it is now they would rework first that TR is no longer dependent from tab, that tab is same addition as other class have tab
That is how rework should have been done.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
BUGS: (not nerw ones but still)
-Bait and switch dummy is ignored by most high level enemies, this makes the skill basically useless, if not for the stealth recovery.
-Shadow strike doesn't work many times, goes on cooldown (or not) after activation but stealth meter isn't replenished.
Do you remember how it was as we were leveling up from lvl 11 - 40 in pvp?
At certain levels some classes were more powerful than others regardless of gear, because of skills that unlocked for them at those levels.
Once we hit level 60, the main things that makes up dominate people in pvp and smash all pve are our items/enchantments.
Thus said, we cannot begin to claim OP or anything based on these changes when most of peoples power will not come from these changes, but from their gear.
Strip down naked and use a transmute weapon to do all your tests on whats op and whats not and the results will come out a little better.
I know you understand this because you do your tests in preview without companions, our gear has equal effect as companions do in pvp/pve.
Improved Cunning Sneak and all PvP armors' effects are now thoroughly useless; they extend your Stealth meter, but your At-Wills reduce your Stealth by 15% of the augmented amount instead of 15% of the original amount. In other words, even if I have equipped Profound Armor and the Improved Cunning Sneak feat and am supposed to have 150% Stealth, I can still only use at-wills 6 times instead of 10 before my Stealth is completely gone.
so maybe they can give stealth 1.5 sec more , and substitute I.cunning sneak with 4-8-12-16-20 more deflect severity??
this should hopefully solve survivability problems. it's impossible to go over 45% even the cheesiest roll ever.
losing that 1.5 sec more is however out of question, stealth would be even more meaningless
As far as I can tell, this happens when you use Shadow Strike on a target just as it dies. It happens if someone else kills the target as your Shadow Strike activates, so it isn't restricted to SS striking the killing blow either.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
If that be the case:
base stealth duration should be increased b +4s = 10 seconds
set bonus of skulker/profound gear changed to provide some other special defensive bonus.. ex) stealth depletion from at-wills is reduced by 5%
ICS changed to 2/4/6/8/10% deflection chance
the Sharandar campaign boon which offers deflect severity working correctly, boosted to 5%
IMO 10s stealth duration should be the standard for all TR builds. No higher, no less.
All of these changes I am greatly pleased with, only work under the assumption that the stealth is around 10seconds, since I use both ICS and profound gear. Were I to use Black Ice or Draconic gear that drops my stealth to 6s default, with only a 1.2s increase from ICS, then none of the changes would work, not even for me.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Can anyone clarify if the Broken Armor debuff is for allies or just self?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Oh my god..
With the Smoke Bomb changes, you've made happy a LOT of TRs I know. It also means a WHOLE NEW level of PvE playing field...an AoE neutralization power that also deals (perhaps very small, but still) damage... !!
Thanks for the update!
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It is Allies as well.
IT'S HAPPENING !!!!!!!!!!!
now...pls let's talk about survivability.
and pls check 2 times what happened to gloaming cut.. it's definitely not a 15% damage nerf.
however thanks
To make it better for PvE, less effective in 1v1 PvP and more skill involved power, let Smoke Bomb deal medium base poison damage and more damage for every target hit.
i dont want to play perma stealth all my life.
i have to see damage worth of me being unstealthed.
thanks so much!
Feedback: Stealth Depletion on At-Will use
Please let the Stealth Depletion on At-Will use be dependent on the time used on that At-Will instead of a flat 15% per hit.
Feedback: Shadowy Opportunity
Likewise, please make Shadowy Opportunity damage scale with channeling time of the relevant attack instead of a flat 75% weapon damage per hit.
These changes would be in line with your proposed changes to the way weapon enhancements work, Chris.