Lets clarify something here. The stopping of stealth regen is something it *always* did. I didn't make any changes to that. Overall you will regenerate more stealth, especially if you can dodge major hits. Previously any hit would drain 10% of your stealth meter (before Tenacious). This change means that any small hit that does less than 10% of your HP will drain less than it did previously, with no change in regeneration uptime. This is a buff to stealth regen, not a nerf.
We're all aware that damage stopping stealth regen has always been the case. There wouldn't be so many posts complaining about it since the new TR mechanic was announced if that wasn't the case.
The problem with these latest changes is that it really doesn't matter if one kind of damage affects stealth one way, and another a different way, you still can't replenish your stealth in combat without using a refilling encounter. Possibly for the new Sab tree it helps but not for anyone else, and Sabs probably need the assistance the least.
Lets clarify something here. The stopping of stealth regen is something it *always* did. I didn't make any changes to that. Overall you will regenerate more stealth, especially if you can dodge major hits. Previously any hit would drain 10% of your stealth meter (before Tenacious). This change means that any small hit that does less than 10% of your HP will drain less than it did previously, with no change in regeneration uptime. This is a buff to stealth regen, not a nerf.
So if a CW, SW, GWF or HR lands a 3k+ hit (which they often do, especially the first two) it will drain it more. Or eLol mobs hitting you for half your hp, do you lose 50% of your stealth bar then?
In any case, i guess we hoped for something more. Something that would make us wanted in PvE primarily, as we've no niche to fill. All we bring to the table is dps. Less dps than cw's that can ae cc, sw's that can heal while dpsing or spec fury for great dps. GF's that have kv + itf + ef and mark thats very desirable by groups.
Even HR's that can dish out pretty good damage from afar and have some debuffs, and gwf's are somewhat tanky with good dps. DC's are great buffers/debuffers and can heal.
See, everyone has their own niche, all we bring to the table is DPS techinally, and we arent even close to being 'best' at it. Call the content flawed for making ae's efficient, but we arent even best at single target.
In addition to that, as all melee classes in mmo's since EQ, we lose precious dps time due to our range limitations, this is usually compensated in some other matter (risk vs reward), but currently im not feeling any advantages of breathing down a mobs neck and having to dodge away from large pobaoes, losing dps, and re-engaging, while a ranged class can plonk on the mob from afar, also while moving.
Why can't we have an inherent mechanic, something similar to the gf mark, call it exploit weakness, that applies on hit, and can stack on mobs, make it pve only for all i care. Or some debuffs implemented in some of our skills (we've only 3 encounter slots, making a debuff encounter would limit us too much imo, and would make the playstyle more passive, like gf's).
Anyway, my point is, while im personally indifferent to this change (still 3 sec without regaining any stealth + losing it, albeit a bit less/more depending on the situation..) it's the overall frustration that's seeping through.
And for the record, I'm talking purerly about PvE here.
0
Options
blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
Lets clarify something here. The stopping of stealth regen is something it *always* did. I didn't make any changes to that. Overall you will regenerate more stealth, especially if you can dodge major hits. Previously any hit would drain 10% of your stealth meter (before Tenacious). This change means that any small hit that does less than 10% of your HP will drain less than it did previously, with no change in regeneration uptime. This is a buff to stealth regen, not a nerf.
It would make sense, to maximaze the stealth loss. So in PVE a big hit wouldn't deplete all of the stealth meter at once. (like in a boss/dragon fight). So, please cap stealth loss at 10% per hit maximum, even if a big hit takes 50% health. In this case, we could speak about a buff.
Still, I don't see it as a solution to the mechanic, but need testing.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
Think about how often the small and annoying bits and parcels of damage, like all sorts of DoTs.. bilethorn.. plaguefire... ice/snow spells from CWs... Careful Bullshi* from HRs.. PotB spamming from TRs... and the itsy-bitsy ranged attacks the mobs throw at you even when you are in stealth...
...and then think about how often you're really hit by attacks that cost more than 10% of your HP... and while at that, when you are in stealth, at the same time.
Then weigh both of those on a scale. Mine reads "PROFIT!". If yours reads "LOSS ::", then its either your scale is broken, or you're not even average level in handling/managing a TR. The kind that knows nothing of how to fight, except to "stealth - stand right next to mob - spam at-will - rinse and repeat".
For starters, how many mobs even attack you when you're in stealth? Some of the boss mobs... some trash mobs that throw AoE ranged stuff at you... that's like what... 5% of the entire mob gallery? The rest 95% of mobs don't even move around.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
...and then think about how often you're really hit by attacks that cost more than 10% of your HP... and while at that, when you are in stealth, at the same time.
When some jackanapes flips a dragon onto me (in or out of stealth is irrelevant), which is really the only thing I'm worried about with this change. In that kind of scenario, stealth isn't for protection (if things were aggroed to me, I would not be the one getting the tail to the face), but you still want to be in stealth as much as possible to maximize your contribution.
When some jackanapes flips a dragon onto me (in or out of stealth is irrelevant), which is really the only thing I'm worried about with this change. In that kind of scenario, stealth isn't for protection (if things were aggroed to me, I would not be the one getting the tail to the face), but you still want to be in stealth as much as possible to maximize your contribution.
Right. So its a luxury issue, not a necessity one. Zero problems in survival, zero problems with enjoying the content... but the only problem being whether you get enough stealth damage buff to top-out and get that "Great Suckers...er..I mean.. Success" sign over your head.
Which is, btw, unrelated to stealth in the first place, but rather how some idiots bring upon a team-kill with stupid maneuvering. I agree having clueless people around can be a pain.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
0
Options
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Lets clarify something here. The stopping of stealth regen is something it *always* did. I didn't make any changes to that. Overall you will regenerate more stealth, especially if you can dodge major hits. Previously any hit would drain 10% of your stealth meter (before Tenacious). This change means that any small hit that does less than 10% of your HP will drain less than it did previously, with no change in regeneration uptime. This is a buff to stealth regen, not a nerf.
Everything is clarified instantly.
Some of us are the type of people that can see an equation written down on a chalk board, and instantly come up with formulas to solve it.
I see your equation, and I have seen all possible outcomes from the suggestion.
Given the fact that most of the mod 4/5 monsters/players can hit my TR and drain it to 10% hp, this suggestion will be terrible for those of use that understand the weight of the implied implications.
How about leave stealth regeneration alone.
The change to me makes me feel like I am strapped down on a table with my hands and feet bound, and based on how far someone pulls the pendulum back will be how deep the blade cuts through my bowels. You are giving other players more control over my stealth bar and how it operates. I don't have control over their stamina bar, non existent mana bars, casting times based on my damage done to them, or anything close to what is being suggested to happen to TR players here.
If anything our stealth should rise regardless of how much damage we are taking in combat, just like our stamina does.
Have you not heard the cries of your TR people?
We have been saying, NO... Stop... please don't do this to us!
Stealth is very important to us!
Yet you still persist on sticking new ways of removing more stealth based on what others are doing to us, along with removing stealth based on what we are doing to others.
.If it was 3000 B.C. and I had you as my god, and you had forsaken all my prayers... trust me, your idol and alter would be broken and burned, just as you are burning our dreams based on the ill will of those who have one arm around our shoulders just to make it easier to knife us in the side. QoL...... My quality of life with TR has dropped 5d100(20) based on this proposal
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
So after a few seconds of testing the "new" at wills i knew they werent right:
Cloud of Steel has been nerfed threefold : Its slower, it does 18% less base damage, its damage doesnt stack.
Sly Flourish 'Buff' is so miniscule its not even noticeable. Im beginning to think it hasnt been implemented
I really hope this is a simple mistake.
In their defence Duelists Flurry is working great now.
0
Options
mojoratMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited October 2014
feedback
I haven't parsed numbers forvthus but for the stealth regen change I'm pretty sure the majority of monsters I fight as a challenge hit for more than 10% of my you. Actuallt part of the issue in tuern is some trash mobs hit for 100% of my gpgp
I haven't parsed numbers forvthus but for the stealth regen change I'm pretty sure the majority of monsters I fight as a challenge hit for more than 10% of my you. Actuallt part of the issue in tuern is some trash mobs hit for 100% of my gpgp
We are making a slight change to stealth depletion from damage as a QoL change, and to remove the disproportionate penalty applied by having a damage over time effect on you.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Stealth depletion from damage is now directly related to how much damage the target deals. You lose an amount equal to the percent of HP that you lose in the attack.
This means that small hits will still block stealth regeneration for 3 seconds, but will no longer rapidly drain out the entire meter. This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
This won't be in today's preview push, but will be in for next week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
With all due respect your honor! Reconsider! When TR pops out of stealth that time to regenerate is enough for other class to kill this fragile rogues they dont even care about this 10% of health to stealth loss. This only means when DOT is applied stealth regeneration is dead every tick for 3 seconds! WTH! massive damage will drain far larger chunks? seriously? Do you even know how MASSIVE other class can dish out? If this will be applied give us better STAT mechanic so we can adjust with this nonsense stealth depletion from damage.
Quality of Life huh? do you even understand this class? do you go to pvp and pve?
Didn't test the new at-wills yet, but I actually anticipated this happening. There wasn't any way they would let an infinite stacking happen, nor even a "maxed out" stacking, since from that point on CoS streams would be seriously "overloaded".
CoS changes would be meaningless to measure in terms of number of attacks fired off.
Rather, it should now be measured & compared by how much damage it does over a given amount of time, regardless of number of attackes fired off. In other words, staying true to the term DPS -- as in "Damage per Second" -- you need to compare the new CoS with the old CoS in terms of damage inflicted over a longer duration of time... let's say, 3 minutes of non-stop attack... which will do more damage? My guess is ofcourse, the new one.
In otherwords, (I'll have to test it, but I'm pretty sure that) overall average DPS of CoS probably went up greatly -- but the trade-off would be that its 8-knives burst-stream damage over a short time, probably went down drastically.
So in a sense, this is a PvE buff where CoS can now be used like any other at-will, a steady stream of outgoing damage. But for PvP, where it's always the short moment of opportunity that matters, it's probably a nerf.
IMO, no bonuses at all seems a bit harsh.
I'd settle for a much smaller stack bonus which maxes out around the same 8 attacks thrown, and then stays constant as long as CoS is keeps hitting, or otherwise would fall off and reset after 2 seconds or something.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
All I have to say is WOW! I love the changes! the only thing I could ask for now is a longer duration/shorter cooldown of ITC or an implementation of Improved Evasion as myself and others have asked for.
TR is on the right path, fast paced and exciting to play!
I know I will not like it in PvP, but I also know I'd love being able to hit stuff constantly without waiting for recharge time in PvE -- even in boss fights. Besides, CoS wasn't a main damage dealer power for me in PvP anyway. It's a supplementary tool at best. All at-wills are, after the stealth change (except GC, ofc).
I'm actually wondering if any PvPer would really find the CoS changes so disturbing. CoS spamming is so mod4. Who uses that in the preview anyway? I know MI/Sabs don't. Even my WK/Sco doesn't.
There's not much to hate in the first place, now that I think of it
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Dodge changes
I like three dodges, it helps a lot. GJ Devs.
Stealth
As Sabouter I didnt have much problem with stealth and with extra dodge, SS and OwS it was fine.
For solo content its just great, but when we go in group and lots of aoe spells are cast our stealth is burnt almost instantly.
As Executioner, well... I just died a lot
At wills changes Duelists Flurry is still the best attack we have right now, the bleed is just to good to leave it behind.
While its hard to apply in solo game, its just great when we fight in group, especialy its still very effective while out of stealth.
Sly Flourish is second best in damage vs standing target (eg dummy), which is nice buff.
I think this skill is in right place now.
Gloaming Cut is just slow, very slow, while damage might be nice, I dont find this skill very usefull.
The only reason I would use its is if I solo content and want a break.
Please listen to players and make it a bit faster.
Schocking Execution is not shocking and have never been near any execution at all. Change it please to be more like SW Killing Flames. Damage based on % and small aoe, like Killing Flames with Fury-tree feat (consider changing Exec feat). This daily is useless, unless you fight mobs in dread ring or sharandar, where you dont need it anyway.
Shadow Strike is a must have for almost every TR now, consider changing lvl2&3 to longer daze, anything but 10%dmg, 10% dmg of my 880 is what, 80 dmg, seriously?
I dont understand why some utility powers, like warlocs bargain can hit for 5-10k dmg and we TRs have what... 800dmg stun for 1 second?
Feats suggestions
Consider implementing more feats like cunning abusher. We have very short stealth now, give TR more deflection/other bonuses when we leave stealth (just for few seconds), so we will be visible to enemies, vulnerable to their attacks, but quicker/harder to hit, because we are still embraced by shadows
BUGS
There are still many situations when you press TAB/Stealth - become invsible, but many mobs and players can hit/kill you anyway. You can check this easyli in Icewindale with Raiders jumping on you, winter wolves freez and throw, etc. Stealth we have now, its not true stealth anymore ;p
When in stealth using daily with Invisible Infiltrator you might be hit as well as if you were visible for just a moment.
Giants in IWD can swing their aoe attack and the same freeze/throw from wolves.
Disciple of Strenght is not working
Dear devs I have request.
Create GWF/CW/SW/DC/TR characters, put popular T1/T2 set (Avatar, Vizier, Diabolist, Prophet, SwashCaptain),
purple jewelery, Ioun stone and purple artifacts on them.
This will be common player in Neverwinter, 13-14k gs, and decent stats.
Go into dungeon and see what they can do.
I dont know how you test and implement things, but it seems like you dont play TR much.
I understand pvp is important to balance, but its not balanced and will never be.
Give our TR some love please, especialy when it comes to pve
I hate what happens now on live...
TR joins group and people just leave... they dont want to play with handicapped TR ;/
0
Options
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Didn't test the new at-wills yet, but I actually anticipated this happening. There wasn't any way they would let an infinite stacking happen, nor even a "maxed out" stacking, since from that point on CoS streams would be seriously "overloaded".
CoS changes would be meaningless to measure in terms of number of attacks fired off.
Rather, it should now be measured & compared by how much damage it does over a given amount of time, regardless of number of attackes fired off. In other words, staying true to the term DPS -- as in "Damage per Second" -- you need to compare the new CoS with the old CoS in terms of damage inflicted over a longer duration of time... let's say, 3 minutes of non-stop attack... which will do more damage? My guess is ofcourse, the new one.
In otherwords, (I'll have to test it, but I'm pretty sure that) overall average DPS of CoS probably went up greatly -- but the trade-off would be that its 8-knives burst-stream damage over a short time, probably went down drastically.
So in a sense, this is a PvE buff where CoS can now be used like any other at-will, a steady stream of outgoing damage. But for PvP, where it's always the short moment of opportunity that matters, it's probably a nerf.
IMO, no bonuses at all seems a bit harsh.
I'd settle for a much smaller stack bonus which maxes out around the same 8 attacks thrown, and then stays constant as long as CoS is keeps hitting, or otherwise would fall off and reset after 2 seconds or something.
no one will be standing for three mins throwing cos in pvp
and whoever stands and throws cos for three mins in pve has obviously never used flurry on a boss.
yea only a boss will be alive that long.
I am not pleased with how you try to smash players when they offer their feedback.
Then again seems you feels that you are always right brainy smurf.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2014
Those IWD mobs aren't bugged, just dangerous enough to treat with caution. They won't attack if they never see you at all (bosses like Biggrin actually are immune to stealth though), but they'll start using AoE attacks (rider charge, wolf breath, etc.) that will hit you if you pop visible for a moment. If they've begun their cast, they won't stop just because you restealthed. You gots to move.
We are making a slight change to stealth depletion from damage as a QoL change, and to remove the disproportionate penalty applied by having a damage over time effect on you.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Stealth depletion from damage is now directly related to how much damage the target deals. You lose an amount equal to the percent of HP that you lose in the attack.
This means that small hits will still block stealth regeneration for 3 seconds, but will no longer rapidly drain out the entire meter. This also conversely means that major hits and massive damage will drain far larger chunks of the meter than the previously did.
This won't be in today's preview push, but will be in for next week.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I don't know how this will help us when we're constantly getting hit for +30% of out total HP. In the case of dragons, we have to crawl so much up the dragon's *** that we don't even see the AoEs coming and end up getting hit for +50% of total HP.
This will not improve our "QoL" in any way, I assure you. I'm not sure if this will affect us in a negative way either, like some other people are saying. This is more like meh...
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
no one will be standing for three mins throwing cos in pvp
and whoever stands and throws cos for three mins in pve has obviously never used flurry on a boss.
yea only a boss will be alive that long.
I am not pleased with how you try to smash players when they offer their feedback.
Then again seems you feels that you are always right brainy smurf.
no kidding. maybe a whisperknife will just spam CoS all day, but the rest of us do much better dps in melee. besides any ranged character can out-dps that at-will easily. it was just an easy way to finish off near dead people in pvp that were running away with all their might.
no one will be standing for three mins throwing cos in pvp
and whoever stands and throws cos for three mins in pve has obviously never used flurry on a boss.
yea only a boss will be alive that long.
I am not pleased with how you try to smash players when they offer their feedback.
Then again seems you feels that you are always right brainy smurf.
Where did I smash anyone? Kindly point out. Quote the sentence? Underline the smashy? If I offer a different opinion, that qualifies as a 'smash'? Must I agree with every popular opinion? Do I have to lie and say, "Oh, I am absolutely grieving over this tragic loss" and start participating in the mass hysteria?
I do start 'smash' when people start on taking that foul-smelling attitude, that twisted and angry scent of nerdrage about not getting what they want -- over a game -- but naw, didn't smash anything this time, sir.
(ps)
...whoever stands and throws cos for three mins in pve has obviously never used flurry on a boss...
You're quite the literal type, aren't you. I'll make sure not to use any metaphors around you next time, demonmonger. :rolleyes:
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
no kidding. maybe a whisperknife will just spam CoS all day, but the rest of us do much better dps in melee. besides any ranged character can out-dps that at-will easily. it was just an easy way to finish off near dead people in pvp that were running away with all their might.
Does anyone have even the slightest clue of what the "difference between test conditions and actual combat means"?
Do I really have to explain every bit and detail that when testing out the new changes one would have to test out both short bursts and long ones to accurately compare DPS?
T. E. S. T.
Test.
...*sigh*
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Where did I smash anyone? Kindly point out. Quote the sentence? Underline the smashy? If I offer a different opinion, that qualifies as a 'smash'? Must I agree with every popular opinion? Do I have to lie and say, "Oh, I am absolutely grieving over this tragic loss" and start participating in the mass hysteria?
I do start 'smash' when people start on taking that foul-smelling attitude, that twisted and angry scent of nerdrage about not getting what they want -- over a game -- but naw, didn't smash anything this time, sir.
(ps)
You're quite the literal type, aren't you. I'll make sure not to use any metaphors around you next time, demonmonger. :rolleyes:
Glad you asked. Allow me, this is from the "Module 5 Trickster Rogue Discussion Thread";
Every single pointer you make is a bunch of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-shi* propaganda made out of your own personal failures to cope/adapt with the tools given to you. The TR may be weaker OR stronger than other classes in certain given roles, but never in extremes.
Just where dafuq is the point you would be satisfied?
Being able to hold on to a buff/debuff that is as strong as a magic-user that has unlimited and would beef up every single attack of yours to perma-crit levels? And having that amount of damage and power and crit rating and still want to retain 50~60k HP levels of the GWF/GFs.. and at the same time throwing around unlimited target cap AoEs that CC mobs with the efficiency of a CW's singularity?
Oh, that's right. You consider the massive shi*-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage the "ancient" TRs used to do as being optimal for PvE. *snicker* I forgot that part. I thought you were actually interested in balance.
It is no wonder your types want that "DF from stealth" so badly. Now I understand why.
Your definition of PvE is someone in front of that punching bag in the local arcade. You give a strong punch, the numbers come up, and you define who is strong and who is weak by who has the highest numbers, and that is the pitiful definition of "PvE" for you.
You don't want any real fighting experience, you don't want to enjoy the combat, or have a fun session with your friends, feel what it is like to fight together as a team, or enjoy the story, or want a challenge. You don't want anything that makes PvE a PvE.
You simply want an in-game punching bag, since your PvE is defined by a contest of numbers."
Your goal is to CHANGE the existing conditions, you wimp.
Where were you then? Too busy rolling around the "existing condtions" of the gutter?
Only nubs and idiots measure contribution through numbers -- especially the misleading <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> numbers like Paingiver or etc etc.. bullshi*. Better players can see who is really contributing and who not just by watching how you play. The moves, the power use, the timing, its easily recognizeable.
I'd actually not have thought PvErs can be this twisted, selfish, absurd levels of blindness where ONLY the TR is the 'striker', where ONLY the TR boasts 3~4 times more damage than others, where ONLY the TRs would have to be top contendors... etc etc..
I don't blame you for not 'seeing' how dungeon design can help you. The only aspect of PvE your types -- all the whiners and complainers -- seem to be able to compute, is by understanding it as an abstract numbers contest. Basically the same nub mindset as those who think leaderboard rankings are measure of skill.
You simply fail to understand other classes doing higher damage is simply a result of the environment. If you can't see how a different dungeon design might help you, go read my Beholder write-up.
This is just form two posts in the Module 5 Trickster Rogue Discussion Thread thread.
Yeah, 'smashing' indeed.
The smashy is underlined as requested.
You're rude, agressive and not very constructive, and that in a feedback thread.
I was just testing MI Scoundrel with Low Blows feated entering melee with Deft Strike and hitting DF and it's DEAD SHRED. CoS w/ Legendary Talon, AMAZING. Gloaming cut is still very much a mixed bag. Whereas DF just became a lot more "rogue," GC never really felt "rogue.
I still have to test PvP but I'm not as optimistic about the changes. I don't think CoS is going to suck as hard as people think, DF has MAJOR promise, Gloaming...meh....
More tweaks need to be done but I still believe this was a step in the right direction. Let's keep giving good feedback and work with Gentlemancrush, I think he's getting what we're after.
im pretty certain CoS isnt working as intended.
0
Options
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Does anyone have even the slightest clue of what the "difference between test conditions and actual combat means"?
Do I really have to explain every bit and detail that when testing out the new changes one would have to test out both short bursts and long ones to accurately compare DPS?
T. E. S. T.
Test.
...*sigh*
again brainy smurf trolling
stop assuming you know what is what on all matters
just leave your feedback vs changes not our comments.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Comments
We're all aware that damage stopping stealth regen has always been the case. There wouldn't be so many posts complaining about it since the new TR mechanic was announced if that wasn't the case.
The problem with these latest changes is that it really doesn't matter if one kind of damage affects stealth one way, and another a different way, you still can't replenish your stealth in combat without using a refilling encounter. Possibly for the new Sab tree it helps but not for anyone else, and Sabs probably need the assistance the least.
So if a CW, SW, GWF or HR lands a 3k+ hit (which they often do, especially the first two) it will drain it more. Or eLol mobs hitting you for half your hp, do you lose 50% of your stealth bar then?
In any case, i guess we hoped for something more. Something that would make us wanted in PvE primarily, as we've no niche to fill. All we bring to the table is dps. Less dps than cw's that can ae cc, sw's that can heal while dpsing or spec fury for great dps. GF's that have kv + itf + ef and mark thats very desirable by groups.
Even HR's that can dish out pretty good damage from afar and have some debuffs, and gwf's are somewhat tanky with good dps. DC's are great buffers/debuffers and can heal.
See, everyone has their own niche, all we bring to the table is DPS techinally, and we arent even close to being 'best' at it. Call the content flawed for making ae's efficient, but we arent even best at single target.
In addition to that, as all melee classes in mmo's since EQ, we lose precious dps time due to our range limitations, this is usually compensated in some other matter (risk vs reward), but currently im not feeling any advantages of breathing down a mobs neck and having to dodge away from large pobaoes, losing dps, and re-engaging, while a ranged class can plonk on the mob from afar, also while moving.
Why can't we have an inherent mechanic, something similar to the gf mark, call it exploit weakness, that applies on hit, and can stack on mobs, make it pve only for all i care. Or some debuffs implemented in some of our skills (we've only 3 encounter slots, making a debuff encounter would limit us too much imo, and would make the playstyle more passive, like gf's).
Anyway, my point is, while im personally indifferent to this change (still 3 sec without regaining any stealth + losing it, albeit a bit less/more depending on the situation..) it's the overall frustration that's seeping through.
And for the record, I'm talking purerly about PvE here.
It would make sense, to maximaze the stealth loss. So in PVE a big hit wouldn't deplete all of the stealth meter at once. (like in a boss/dragon fight). So, please cap stealth loss at 10% per hit maximum, even if a big hit takes 50% health. In this case, we could speak about a buff.
Still, I don't see it as a solution to the mechanic, but need testing.
...and then think about how often you're really hit by attacks that cost more than 10% of your HP... and while at that, when you are in stealth, at the same time.
Then weigh both of those on a scale. Mine reads "PROFIT!". If yours reads "LOSS ::", then its either your scale is broken, or you're not even average level in handling/managing a TR. The kind that knows nothing of how to fight, except to "stealth - stand right next to mob - spam at-will - rinse and repeat".
For starters, how many mobs even attack you when you're in stealth? Some of the boss mobs... some trash mobs that throw AoE ranged stuff at you... that's like what... 5% of the entire mob gallery? The rest 95% of mobs don't even move around.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
When some jackanapes flips a dragon onto me (in or out of stealth is irrelevant), which is really the only thing I'm worried about with this change. In that kind of scenario, stealth isn't for protection (if things were aggroed to me, I would not be the one getting the tail to the face), but you still want to be in stealth as much as possible to maximize your contribution.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Right. So its a luxury issue, not a necessity one. Zero problems in survival, zero problems with enjoying the content... but the only problem being whether you get enough stealth damage buff to top-out and get that "Great Suckers...er..I mean.. Success" sign over your head.
Which is, btw, unrelated to stealth in the first place, but rather how some idiots bring upon a team-kill with stupid maneuvering. I agree having clueless people around can be a pain.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Everything is clarified instantly.
Some of us are the type of people that can see an equation written down on a chalk board, and instantly come up with formulas to solve it.
I see your equation, and I have seen all possible outcomes from the suggestion.
Given the fact that most of the mod 4/5 monsters/players can hit my TR and drain it to 10% hp, this suggestion will be terrible for those of use that understand the weight of the implied implications.
How about leave stealth regeneration alone.
The change to me makes me feel like I am strapped down on a table with my hands and feet bound, and based on how far someone pulls the pendulum back will be how deep the blade cuts through my bowels. You are giving other players more control over my stealth bar and how it operates. I don't have control over their stamina bar, non existent mana bars, casting times based on my damage done to them, or anything close to what is being suggested to happen to TR players here.
If anything our stealth should rise regardless of how much damage we are taking in combat, just like our stamina does.
Have you not heard the cries of your TR people?
We have been saying, NO... Stop... please don't do this to us!
Stealth is very important to us!
Yet you still persist on sticking new ways of removing more stealth based on what others are doing to us, along with removing stealth based on what we are doing to others.
.If it was 3000 B.C. and I had you as my god, and you had forsaken all my prayers... trust me, your idol and alter would be broken and burned, just as you are burning our dreams based on the ill will of those who have one arm around our shoulders just to make it easier to knife us in the side. QoL...... My quality of life with TR has dropped 5d100(20) based on this proposal
Cloud of Steel has been nerfed threefold : Its slower, it does 18% less base damage, its damage doesnt stack.
Sly Flourish 'Buff' is so miniscule its not even noticeable. Im beginning to think it hasnt been implemented
I really hope this is a simple mistake.
In their defence Duelists Flurry is working great now.
I haven't parsed numbers forvthus but for the stealth regen change I'm pretty sure the majority of monsters I fight as a challenge hit for more than 10% of my you. Actuallt part of the issue in tuern is some trash mobs hit for 100% of my gpgp
That isnt in this update.
cloud of steel does way less damages and is slow.
"jumping duelist flurry" is now impossible (edit: much harder, still possible). over all good tho.
i would like the stealth lost thing reverted. this is just a nerf. another one.
stealth should always refill no matter what.
revert gloaming cut change too. its slow and useless in its now current form.
THE PROBLEMS TOO BE ADDRESSED are survivabilities and stats allocation!
lower cooldown much dps wow
time to go whisper knife and abuse d.strike crits
With all due respect your honor! Reconsider! When TR pops out of stealth that time to regenerate is enough for other class to kill this fragile rogues they dont even care about this 10% of health to stealth loss. This only means when DOT is applied stealth regeneration is dead every tick for 3 seconds! WTH! massive damage will drain far larger chunks? seriously? Do you even know how MASSIVE other class can dish out? If this will be applied give us better STAT mechanic so we can adjust with this nonsense stealth depletion from damage.
Quality of Life huh? do you even understand this class? do you go to pvp and pve?
It just shows how many people read the entire post of something before reacting.
CoS changes would be meaningless to measure in terms of number of attacks fired off.
Rather, it should now be measured & compared by how much damage it does over a given amount of time, regardless of number of attackes fired off. In other words, staying true to the term DPS -- as in "Damage per Second" -- you need to compare the new CoS with the old CoS in terms of damage inflicted over a longer duration of time... let's say, 3 minutes of non-stop attack... which will do more damage? My guess is ofcourse, the new one.
In otherwords, (I'll have to test it, but I'm pretty sure that) overall average DPS of CoS probably went up greatly -- but the trade-off would be that its 8-knives burst-stream damage over a short time, probably went down drastically.
So in a sense, this is a PvE buff where CoS can now be used like any other at-will, a steady stream of outgoing damage. But for PvP, where it's always the short moment of opportunity that matters, it's probably a nerf.
IMO, no bonuses at all seems a bit harsh.
I'd settle for a much smaller stack bonus which maxes out around the same 8 attacks thrown, and then stays constant as long as CoS is keeps hitting, or otherwise would fall off and reset after 2 seconds or something.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It feels like your shooting nerf bullets.
TR is on the right path, fast paced and exciting to play!
I know I will not like it in PvP, but I also know I'd love being able to hit stuff constantly without waiting for recharge time in PvE -- even in boss fights. Besides, CoS wasn't a main damage dealer power for me in PvP anyway. It's a supplementary tool at best. All at-wills are, after the stealth change (except GC, ofc).
I'm actually wondering if any PvPer would really find the CoS changes so disturbing. CoS spamming is so mod4. Who uses that in the preview anyway? I know MI/Sabs don't. Even my WK/Sco doesn't.
There's not much to hate in the first place, now that I think of it
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Dodge changes
I like three dodges, it helps a lot. GJ Devs.
Stealth
As Sabouter I didnt have much problem with stealth and with extra dodge, SS and OwS it was fine.
For solo content its just great, but when we go in group and lots of aoe spells are cast our stealth is burnt almost instantly.
As Executioner, well... I just died a lot
At wills changes
Duelists Flurry is still the best attack we have right now, the bleed is just to good to leave it behind.
While its hard to apply in solo game, its just great when we fight in group, especialy its still very effective while out of stealth.
Sly Flourish is second best in damage vs standing target (eg dummy), which is nice buff.
I think this skill is in right place now.
Gloaming Cut is just slow, very slow, while damage might be nice, I dont find this skill very usefull.
The only reason I would use its is if I solo content and want a break.
Please listen to players and make it a bit faster.
Schocking Execution is not shocking and have never been near any execution at all. Change it please to be more like SW Killing Flames. Damage based on % and small aoe, like Killing Flames with Fury-tree feat (consider changing Exec feat). This daily is useless, unless you fight mobs in dread ring or sharandar, where you dont need it anyway.
Shadow Strike is a must have for almost every TR now, consider changing lvl2&3 to longer daze, anything but 10%dmg, 10% dmg of my 880 is what, 80 dmg, seriously?
I dont understand why some utility powers, like warlocs bargain can hit for 5-10k dmg and we TRs have what... 800dmg stun for 1 second?
Feats suggestions
Consider implementing more feats like cunning abusher. We have very short stealth now, give TR more deflection/other bonuses when we leave stealth (just for few seconds), so we will be visible to enemies, vulnerable to their attacks, but quicker/harder to hit, because we are still embraced by shadows
BUGS
There are still many situations when you press TAB/Stealth - become invsible, but many mobs and players can hit/kill you anyway. You can check this easyli in Icewindale with Raiders jumping on you, winter wolves freez and throw, etc. Stealth we have now, its not true stealth anymore ;p
When in stealth using daily with Invisible Infiltrator you might be hit as well as if you were visible for just a moment.
Giants in IWD can swing their aoe attack and the same freeze/throw from wolves.
Disciple of Strenght is not working
Dear devs I have request.
Create GWF/CW/SW/DC/TR characters, put popular T1/T2 set (Avatar, Vizier, Diabolist, Prophet, SwashCaptain),
purple jewelery, Ioun stone and purple artifacts on them.
This will be common player in Neverwinter, 13-14k gs, and decent stats.
Go into dungeon and see what they can do.
I dont know how you test and implement things, but it seems like you dont play TR much.
I understand pvp is important to balance, but its not balanced and will never be.
Give our TR some love please, especialy when it comes to pve
I hate what happens now on live...
TR joins group and people just leave... they dont want to play with handicapped TR ;/
no one will be standing for three mins throwing cos in pvp
and whoever stands and throws cos for three mins in pve has obviously never used flurry on a boss.
yea only a boss will be alive that long.
I am not pleased with how you try to smash players when they offer their feedback.
Then again seems you feels that you are always right brainy smurf.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
This will not improve our "QoL" in any way, I assure you. I'm not sure if this will affect us in a negative way either, like some other people are saying. This is more like meh...
no kidding. maybe a whisperknife will just spam CoS all day, but the rest of us do much better dps in melee. besides any ranged character can out-dps that at-will easily. it was just an easy way to finish off near dead people in pvp that were running away with all their might.
Okay so taht came out alot larger than i thought it would but the point must be made.
Where did I smash anyone? Kindly point out. Quote the sentence? Underline the smashy? If I offer a different opinion, that qualifies as a 'smash'? Must I agree with every popular opinion? Do I have to lie and say, "Oh, I am absolutely grieving over this tragic loss" and start participating in the mass hysteria?
I do start 'smash' when people start on taking that foul-smelling attitude, that twisted and angry scent of nerdrage about not getting what they want -- over a game -- but naw, didn't smash anything this time, sir.
(ps)
You're quite the literal type, aren't you. I'll make sure not to use any metaphors around you next time, demonmonger. :rolleyes:
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Does anyone have even the slightest clue of what the "difference between test conditions and actual combat means"?
Do I really have to explain every bit and detail that when testing out the new changes one would have to test out both short bursts and long ones to accurately compare DPS?
T. E. S. T.
Test.
...*sigh*
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Glad you asked. Allow me, this is from the "Module 5 Trickster Rogue Discussion Thread";
And
This is just form two posts in the Module 5 Trickster Rogue Discussion Thread thread.
Yeah, 'smashing' indeed.
The smashy is underlined as requested.
You're rude, agressive and not very constructive, and that in a feedback thread.
You're only making yourself look bad.
im pretty certain CoS isnt working as intended.
again brainy smurf trolling
stop assuming you know what is what on all matters
just leave your feedback vs changes not our comments.