elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited July 2014
I'm really impressed with the latest batch of changes. Seems like support GF is going to be awesome and the single target damage GF is also looking great.
So basically with KV and Into the Fray we are giving +50% DR and +50% Damage to our party, holy ..., if we have this in Mod 4 I'm sure we will see a lot of "LFM GF" (and not only for FH ¬¬).
Rofl. My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV). xD Then add the +8% from mark +20% from ToI and maybe weapon enchantment too. *.*
Out of that:
1) Can one post ARC+script for it? I want to test golems!
2) Does the capstone of protector(-20% damage from debuffed attacker) influence the reflected damage by Guarded Assault? -->10k Hit from enemy vs. me --> 300 damage to him. But 10k*0,8 = 8k = 240 damage to him or still 300?
3) It's WAI that CW can freeze through block with Ray of Frost?
We have more changes coming your way, hopefully this week or early next week!
Guardian Fighter:
Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now stuns targets for 1.5 seconds (up from .75).
Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Base duration increased to 8 seconds (up from 6 seconds).
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Rank up bonus increased to +2 seconds (up from +1 second).
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Base damage increased by ~20%.
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Bonus damage is now dealt to targets below 40% HP (up from 25%).
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: Into the Fray now also increases the damage of affected players by 50% of the Guardian Fighter's base Damage Resistance.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: Ranking this power up now also grants +25% of your DR as damage bonus.
Guardian Fighter: Frontline Surge: Now correctly benefits from Pin Down and Reinforced Surge in PVP.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block should no longer randomly appear broken when fighting.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
These are some astounding changes being done hopefully and includes the dr fix for block as well. Also much appreciated that the old guard break appearing using the new block has been removed.
The reason the CD is still 10 seconds is that the choice between "Will I die if I keep intercepting" vs. "Can my party survive ok while I don't intercept for 10 seconds" is an interesting one, and if the CD gets too short you lose some of that. Turning it off should feel like a bit of a punishment. Something on the order of "We made a mistake so we have to regroup" rather than "Too much heat, toggle off, top me up. IN WE GO AGAIN!"
Hopefully that makes sense
EDIT!
We have more changes coming your way, hopefully this week or early next week!
Guardian Fighter:
Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now stuns targets for 1.5 seconds (up from .75).
Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Base duration increased to 8 seconds (up from 6 seconds).
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Rank up bonus increased to +2 seconds (up from +1 second).
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Base damage increased by ~20%.
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Bonus damage is now dealt to targets below 40% HP (up from 25%).
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: Into the Fray now also increases the damage of affected players by 50% of the Guardian Fighter's base Damage Resistance.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: Ranking this power up now also grants +25% of your DR as damage bonus.
Guardian Fighter: Frontline Surge: Now correctly benefits from Pin Down and Reinforced Surge in PVP.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block should no longer randomly appear broken when fighting.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
* Log onto forums... "Lets see if Crush posts anything"....
* Check GF Thread...
* ERRRRMAGURDDDD!!!!! I dont even know what to say to this.... Into the Fray is probably TOO OP - well see though.....
So just to make sure I understand all the changes.
Knee Breaker: Is going from a 6+1+1 duration to a 8+2+2 duration? Is this for BOTH the slow and the DOT? Because thats almost 100% uptime? And seems like it would be a 12/8 = 50% INCREASE in damage?!
Into the Fray: At MAX rank, this increases BOTH the GF AND teammates damage BY the GFs DR (~50%)? For 8 seconds?!
Frontline Surge: So with BOTH feats this adds 1.3 seconds to the stun? - Will this ALSO effect GWFs as well?
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
I don't see how a party buff is too OP. Yes, it buffs the GF too, but he loses an encounter.
It is perfect. It and KV encourage you to have a GF and encourages it to be a tank. If more of the content coming is like kessels (uncontrollable mobs that do damage), it is great.
Yes, i know you can do kessels with all wizards, or whatever, but it would be easier with the mobs controlled.
Well I was wrong. When Crush said that GF were "NOT dps," I thought he was implying that we were tanks. That is not the case. We are now the ultimate support class. I was expecting changes to the defense of GF and when I seen the new changes I was blown away. The idea of being a true support class with the tools to pull it off well was every unexpected. This is just as good of news as actually being a true tank.
We appreciate the changes to GF making them a true support class, with the new changes GF WILL be viable and even wanted in a group.
Making them a support class was the only chance to up viability. For the current content nobody needs a true tank (but that might change). It's what the DC has kept in the game although nobody needed healing anymore: The ability to up the parties damage by roughly 100%. Even the best DPS can't "outDPS" a debuff cleric.
* Log onto forums... "Lets see if Crush posts anything"....
* Check GF Thread...
* ERRRRMAGURDDDD!!!!! I dont even know what to say to this.... Into the Fray is probably TOO OP - well see though.....
So just to make sure I understand all the changes.
Knee Breaker: Is going from a 6+1+1 duration to a 8+2+2 duration? Is this for BOTH the slow and the DOT? Because thats almost 100% uptime? And seems like it would be a 12/8 = 50% INCREASE in damage?!
Into the Fray: At MAX rank, this increases BOTH the GF AND teammates damage BY the GFs DR (~50%)? For 8 seconds?!
Frontline Surge: So with BOTH feats this adds 1.3 seconds to the stun? - Will this ALSO effect GWFs as well?
Yep, all of those are just about correct.
And since GWFs don't have Pin Down they cant get that portion, but otherwise yes.
Knee Breaker is getting an increase in total damage dealt, but no increase in DPS. The Damage per Cast time is getting more effective since it does happen over a longer period.
We have more changes coming your way, hopefully this week or early next week!
Guardian Fighter: Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now stuns targets for 1.5 seconds (up from .75). Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now activates ~15% faster. Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Base damage increased by ~20%. Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Bonus damage is now dealt to targets below 40% HP (up from 25%). Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Now activates ~15% faster.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Marry me, please. Muhahaha. My GF became playable again, all of a sudden. Tytytyty.
And since GWFs don't have Pin Down they cant get that portion, but otherwise yes.
Knee Breaker is getting an increase in total damage dealt, but no increase in DPS. The Damage per Cast time is getting more effective since it does happen over a longer period.
Anyone know if TWO GFs use Knights valor at once how does that work?
Or what about TWO GFs using Into the Fray, would that be a 100% damage boost?
I remember using Griffons wrath at low levels and the slow cast time and menial effect made me never put a point into it again. Looks like that will be changing, particularly for PvP options.
And Into the Fray is looking very attractive now. Very attractive. Can't wait to try it out.
These changes look like they are going to provide some great synergy between parties and Guardian Fighter powers in general. Definitely headed in the right direction!
And I wonder the same for easier content. In T2's lets say, you can probably survive taking the groups damage without a cleric, especially with CW's doing control. However, you can do it without a cleric at all now already. 2 GW, 3 CW parties are all over. But that guy above is right, you can't truly out dps the benefit of a debuffing/buffing cleric.
To me, this makes it more viable to have a cleric. You are focusing agro on the tank, because it benefits the party (Tact spec especially). You probably want a cleric to make this less risky, and the cleric is buffing/debuffing as well.
I see this meaning less sing's, as you are ok with the tank getting the agro, for high risk/high reward. Using it more of a grouping function instead of just a control function. And really it will still be viable to do it the old way, of course... its just a new viable way.
GWF's should like all the changes too, which i was worried about before. If I am on my GWF i want agro, so i get unstoppable. Alongcomes this GF that takes my agro and adds little damage. Now however, he is buffing my damage, he absorbs damage so i can stand in red for more party reward, etc. So its ok.
I'm glad to see such a buff to the group utility of the GF. I have two mains, a PvP GF and a PvE GF, and these changes coming with Mod 4 encourage me to really pick up on them again. I also play every other class, so I try to hold a more balanced view when considering buffs and nerfs to classes. Because of this, I do have a concern with these new changes to Into the Fray.
I like the idea behind Into the Fray now. It gives some movement speed, Action Point gain, a small bit of temp hp, and a whopping huge increase in damage. Before these changes, it was still a nice utility power to have, though not a must-have nor a drop-in-the-bucket power. Speccing into Tactician simply made it a bit more appealing for PvE GFs with the 5% increase in damage. With these changes, Into the Fray will be a must take, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, my concern is that it is too powerful. My INT/recovery/HP GF (which I understand is not conventional) has 48% DR, so that would equate to a 48% damage boost (not counting the Tactician feat). With my very high recharge speed, I can have Into the Fray up almost all the time, with about a 2-3 second delay in between activations. That means the party will basically have 48% extra damage all the time because of my very existence.
On top of this, Knight's Valor will make the party take significantly less damage, and my high DR (which is actually boosting the party's damage) coupled with my high HP help me survive using it a lot, so the party will now take half damage and deal about 50% more damage because of me. That is gigantic. Is both of these combined maybe too much?
I love the fact the GF will give the group a lot of support and buffs, but as a more rounded player, I would not like to see the GF become buffed to the heavens. Assuming a more average DR here, these changes mean a single ability is giving the entire party around a 45% damage boost. Divine Glow in DCs gives less damage on the affected enemies, and while it does damage, it does not give movement speed, Action Point gain, and temp hp.
My concern is that 100% of DR turning into damage bonus might be too much. We'll have to see when it hits the preview, but I hope GFs don't turn into the new utility CWs. And to clarify, I am not suggesting removing the Into the Fray change. I just want to raise reasonable awareness that, as of now, it is incredibly powerful for a single ability.
I'm glad to see such a buff to the group utility of the GF. I have two mains, a PvP GF and a PvE GF, and these changes coming with Mod 4 encourage me to really pick up on them again. I also play every other class, so I try to hold a more balanced view when considering buffs and nerfs to classes. Because of this, I do have a concern with these new changes to Into the Fray.
I like the idea behind Into the Fray now. It gives some movement speed, Action Point gain, a small bit of temp hp, and a whopping huge increase in damage. Before these changes, it was still a nice utility power to have, though not a must-have nor a drop-in-the-bucket power. Speccing into Tactician simply made it a bit more appealing for PvE GFs with the 5% increase in damage. With these changes, Into the Fray will be a must take, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, my concern is that it is too powerful. My INT/recovery/HP GF (which I understand is not conventional) has 48% DR, so that would equate to a 48% damage boost (not counting the Tactician feat). With my very high recharge speed, I can have Into the Fray up almost all the time, with about a 2-3 second delay in between activations. That means the party will basically have 48% extra damage all the time because of my very existence.
On top of this, Knight's Valor will make the party take significantly less damage, and my high DR (which is actually boosting the party's damage) coupled with my high HP help me survive using it a lot, so the party will now take half damage and deal about 50% more damage because of me. That is gigantic. Is both of these combined maybe too much?
I love the fact the GF will give the group a lot of support and buffs, but as a more rounded player, I would not like to see the GF become buffed to the heavens. Assuming a more average DR here, these changes mean a single ability is giving the entire party around a 45% damage boost. Divine Glow in DCs gives less damage on the affected enemies, and while it does damage, it does not give movement speed, Action Point gain, and temp hp.
My concern is that 100% of DR turning into damage bonus might be too much. We'll have to see when it hits the preview, but I hope GFs don't turn into the new utility CWs. And to clarify, I am not suggesting removing the Into the Fray change. I just want to raise reasonable awareness that, as of now, it is incredibly powerful for a single ability.
These are fair concerns but something to be mindful of is that in your proposed build you bring very little (if any) meaninful damage to the party. So you sacrifice a full players potential damage output for the benefits you bring, and with the incoming damage being heavily focused onto the GF it is quite likely you will need a Cleric to heal you (unless you far outgear the content). Given this you have gone from 5 DPS (or 4 DPS and a buffer, your choice) to 2 Buffer/Healers and 3 DPS. That said, it is entirely likely the amount of DR translated into damage might have to change, and we want that testing to get the tuning right.
I play GWF/GF/CW, so I am with you, I want balance. Not must have x class.
Look at a cleric now. He ups damage by a ton, and lowers damage taken by a ton. I would say more than the 50%/50% you see with KV and IF. And clerics are nowhere near OP, or required.
Will the two stacking be too much? Will a party take no damage because of KV + cleric? That is fine, cuz the tank will be taking damage and will want/need the cleric. And with only 1 encounter to use, the GF, like the cleric, will not be adding that much personal dps.
Needs to be tested,and if need be tweaked, but I think before we worry about OP-ness lets see how it does....
This is pretty ironic - I played GF since the start of open beta and allthough it was a weak class, it was fun and I never abandoned my GF. And now that we get huge buffs, this stamina-guard gets introduced and because of it, it is no more fun to play GF for me, it just doesn't feel right. I will switch to a different class if the stamina-guard goes live, no matter how strong the buffs are.
Well, this isn't over until it is over. Gentlemancrush, please don't make the stamina-guard go live, it was pushed by a vocal, well connected pvp-focused minority, comes with many problems and just destroys the spirit of the GF class.
Thanks for the reply, Gentlemancrush. You bring up important facets to the scenario I described. One indirect change from these GF changes makes DCs more valuable to bring (not saying they weren't valuable already, of course), and that's obviously great. As for the lack of GF dps, the buffing from the GF would outweigh any loss of dps that the GF and potentially another class would have provided, which is the intended purpose. I don't have any math to back that claim, but I can work some up if someone requests it.
Overall, these changes are actually playing on other class changes. Basically, a lot of the damage from the CW and survivability from the GWF, both of which were nerfed, have been transferred to utility/support from the GF, and this is excellent in my mind. Archery HRs were also buffed, leading to more balance overall, and we know changes to the TR/DC are in the works. This change is in the right direction, and as you said, testing will be required to tune the abilities to where they need to be.
I just didn't want people to under-appreciate the value of 50% bonus damage to the whole party. Keep up the good work :cool:
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
OK.
My Conqueror GF has 48.4% DR in DPS set, 47.8% DR in Knight Captain set
Add 15% to that from the Armor Specialization feat which is not reflected on the character sheet, making that 55.66% and 54.97% respectively.
So me using Intro the Fray buffs my party's damage (including my own apparently) by 55%.
If I use Knight Captain, I buff my party's damage (but not my own) additionally by ~6% (25% power)
As my GF (~9.4k power is rank 7s and green companions) is fully damage specced with high defense, I also contribute a fair amount of damage already to the group and do not require a cleric because of how powerful Fighter's Recovery daily power is (and Lifesteal on top).
So rather than a group being say 2 GWF / 3 CW, it will now be 2 GWF / 2 CW / 1 GF for example and overall dealing more damage than in mod 3 at present, as GWF is not losing any damage in mod4 (swordmasters anyway) and CW damage is only slightly decreased.
My feeling was that in mod 3, damage output generally is already too high due to buff/debuff stacking, and I don't see how this is being addressed at all in mod4.
If anything, players are just going to get even more powerful than before and PvE content ever more trivial.
What I would like to see is something to combat all the buffs to players so that content becomes challenging again, but not a DPS race to survive (such as in Valindra's Tower or Temple of the Spider)
I like the changes of everything, the only thing I would say seems OP is the Temp HP + AP + ~50% Damage in 1 Encounter, but all the other things seems right for me.
Colour this lowly solo player excited by that latest change list as well. For me at least GF has always been the class with the largest variety of fun skills to use even if those skills were shunned in other modes. Now some of those skills are getting better.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
The reason the CD is still 10 seconds is that the choice between "Will I die if I keep intercepting" vs. "Can my party survive ok while I don't intercept for 10 seconds" is an interesting one, and if the CD gets too short you lose some of that. Turning it off should feel like a bit of a punishment. Something on the order of "We made a mistake so we have to regroup" rather than "Too much heat, toggle off, top me up. IN WE GO AGAIN!"
Hopefully that makes sense
EDIT!
We have more changes coming your way, hopefully this week or early next week!
Guardian Fighter:
Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now stuns targets for 1.5 seconds (up from .75).
Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Base duration increased to 8 seconds (up from 6 seconds).
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Rank up bonus increased to +2 seconds (up from +1 second).
Guardian Fighter: Knee Breaker: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Base damage increased by ~20%.
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Bonus damage is now dealt to targets below 40% HP (up from 25%).
Guardian Fighter: Anvil of Doom: Now activates ~15% faster.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: Into the Fray now also increases the damage of affected players by 50% of the Guardian Fighter's base Damage Resistance.
Guardian Fighter: Into the Fray: Ranking this power up now also grants +25% of your DR as damage bonus.
Guardian Fighter: Frontline Surge: Now correctly benefits from Pin Down and Reinforced Surge in PVP.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block should no longer randomly appear broken when fighting.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I just wanna ask i have GF too i made it in beta(you can chek this if y want ) ,but i see devs over buffing CW/HR/GF .
Yesterday i was thinking the game will be balanced but now i am not soo sure .
I think this is too much if y do this after mod 4 all will ask nerf GF and i dont want this .
The KV change was cool but i think this will lead to total extinction of GWFs.
Give much lower bonuses pls .
I dont think all GF palying ppl agree with this change .
I want to play GF but if you owerbuff it and nerf it agan i dont think i will never spend money on this game .
First you eliminated Stalvart i lost 70mill AD and this was in mod 1 where rank 8 echants was much more worth.
Then i maked GWF. Nerfed it buffed it nerfed it buffed it and finaly maked GWF not desire for me agan i lost here more then 200kk .
But if i spend some money now agan for my GF, and you will turn it back to garbage agan i am not sure this is the game for me.
I dont have Dagobert Duck at home.
gentlemancrush- Could you please update your post on first page of this thread with all the changes? It is really hard keeping track of all the changes being done on this class thread and the other ones too. It would be greatly appreciated!
Like I mentioned before, these buffs will help GWF's. If you make a GF equalish to a GWF in how desirable they are in dung's you have to nerf GWF survivability or buff GF damage. Then you just end up with copies. This makes GF clearly a better tanking option, and GWF clearly a better DPS option. The option to dps as a GF, or tank as a GWF is still there, and has a lot of room especially in PVP, but at its core, the GF is a tank, and the GWF is a DPS class.
This wasn't clear for a long time, but now it is crystal clear the intent.
Nice changes, I cannot wait to test them. Now Guardian Fighters with Devoted Clerics in a party are making things easier and become an alternative to pure high dps parties.
I am curious how useful these changes turn out to be in PvP.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I'm glad to see we shall finally have our roles back from the "prefered tanks" GWFS I'm excited
Thanx Chris!!!!
Many GFs in pve for group support were running with Knight Captain's Set and Lunging/Enforced Theat /into the Fray.
With these Into the Fray buffs Gf will be more usefull in parties and more fun to play!
Control powers in pve are again most usefull for someone to know.GWrath stops casting of battlewights in iWD for anyone who do not know.GW was one of the most well designed powers of the Gf in potential and aesthetically.But it's slow animation made a lot of GFs to drop it.Finally GW is back!!!!
Anvil of Doom was extremely difficult to land a hit at 25% health remaining cause GFs in frustration were using before 25% less health .
And most of the times its bonus was wasted.
KB is a nice buff.It gives an alternative to a control/dps GF.So a GF can now choose between GW/KB/Bc/AoD/FS/Flourish.(Lunging never goes away)
These changes will make GFs more diversed in their builds .
So far, all sounds fine but are the defensive capabilities really enough? I am not sure if they should get a little push (HP-wise or Deflection-wise or Damage Resistance-wise) after all these changes for more Threat, and then there is the thing about PvP competition.
Are you guys quite sure? Or should there be an similarity with the Devoted Cleric insofar that she offers better defensive possibilities for her team mates than for herself?
Comments
Thanks.
Rofl. My group get ~65% damage bonus then alone from my fray(toggled KV). xD Then add the +8% from mark +20% from ToI and maybe weapon enchantment too. *.*
Out of that:
1) Can one post ARC+script for it? I want to test golems!
2) Does the capstone of protector(-20% damage from debuffed attacker) influence the reflected damage by Guarded Assault? -->10k Hit from enemy vs. me --> 300 damage to him. But 10k*0,8 = 8k = 240 damage to him or still 300?
3) It's WAI that CW can freeze through block with Ray of Frost?
These are some astounding changes being done hopefully and includes the dr fix for block as well. Also much appreciated that the old guard break appearing using the new block has been removed.
* Log onto forums... "Lets see if Crush posts anything"....
* Check GF Thread...
* ERRRRMAGURDDDD!!!!! I dont even know what to say to this.... Into the Fray is probably TOO OP - well see though.....
So just to make sure I understand all the changes.
Knee Breaker: Is going from a 6+1+1 duration to a 8+2+2 duration? Is this for BOTH the slow and the DOT? Because thats almost 100% uptime? And seems like it would be a 12/8 = 50% INCREASE in damage?!
Into the Fray: At MAX rank, this increases BOTH the GF AND teammates damage BY the GFs DR (~50%)? For 8 seconds?!
Frontline Surge: So with BOTH feats this adds 1.3 seconds to the stun? - Will this ALSO effect GWFs as well?
I don't see how a party buff is too OP. Yes, it buffs the GF too, but he loses an encounter.
It is perfect. It and KV encourage you to have a GF and encourages it to be a tank. If more of the content coming is like kessels (uncontrollable mobs that do damage), it is great.
Yes, i know you can do kessels with all wizards, or whatever, but it would be easier with the mobs controlled.
Making them a support class was the only chance to up viability. For the current content nobody needs a true tank (but that might change). It's what the DC has kept in the game although nobody needed healing anymore: The ability to up the parties damage by roughly 100%. Even the best DPS can't "outDPS" a debuff cleric.
Yep, all of those are just about correct.
And since GWFs don't have Pin Down they cant get that portion, but otherwise yes.
Knee Breaker is getting an increase in total damage dealt, but no increase in DPS. The Damage per Cast time is getting more effective since it does happen over a longer period.
Marry me, please. Muhahaha. My GF became playable again, all of a sudden. Tytytyty.
Anyone know if TWO GFs use Knights valor at once how does that work?
Or what about TWO GFs using Into the Fray, would that be a 100% damage boost?
Seems like a party would rather have 50% damage boost and +50% DR with a GF over a DCs benefits....
Is there any plan to increase DC effectiveness?
So great and so much neded. Thank you!
I remember using Griffons wrath at low levels and the slow cast time and menial effect made me never put a point into it again. Looks like that will be changing, particularly for PvP options.
And Into the Fray is looking very attractive now. Very attractive. Can't wait to try it out.
These changes look like they are going to provide some great synergy between parties and Guardian Fighter powers in general. Definitely headed in the right direction!
And I wonder the same for easier content. In T2's lets say, you can probably survive taking the groups damage without a cleric, especially with CW's doing control. However, you can do it without a cleric at all now already. 2 GW, 3 CW parties are all over. But that guy above is right, you can't truly out dps the benefit of a debuffing/buffing cleric.
To me, this makes it more viable to have a cleric. You are focusing agro on the tank, because it benefits the party (Tact spec especially). You probably want a cleric to make this less risky, and the cleric is buffing/debuffing as well.
I see this meaning less sing's, as you are ok with the tank getting the agro, for high risk/high reward. Using it more of a grouping function instead of just a control function. And really it will still be viable to do it the old way, of course... its just a new viable way.
GWF's should like all the changes too, which i was worried about before. If I am on my GWF i want agro, so i get unstoppable. Alongcomes this GF that takes my agro and adds little damage. Now however, he is buffing my damage, he absorbs damage so i can stand in red for more party reward, etc. So its ok.
I'm glad to see such a buff to the group utility of the GF. I have two mains, a PvP GF and a PvE GF, and these changes coming with Mod 4 encourage me to really pick up on them again. I also play every other class, so I try to hold a more balanced view when considering buffs and nerfs to classes. Because of this, I do have a concern with these new changes to Into the Fray.
I like the idea behind Into the Fray now. It gives some movement speed, Action Point gain, a small bit of temp hp, and a whopping huge increase in damage. Before these changes, it was still a nice utility power to have, though not a must-have nor a drop-in-the-bucket power. Speccing into Tactician simply made it a bit more appealing for PvE GFs with the 5% increase in damage. With these changes, Into the Fray will be a must take, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing, my concern is that it is too powerful. My INT/recovery/HP GF (which I understand is not conventional) has 48% DR, so that would equate to a 48% damage boost (not counting the Tactician feat). With my very high recharge speed, I can have Into the Fray up almost all the time, with about a 2-3 second delay in between activations. That means the party will basically have 48% extra damage all the time because of my very existence.
On top of this, Knight's Valor will make the party take significantly less damage, and my high DR (which is actually boosting the party's damage) coupled with my high HP help me survive using it a lot, so the party will now take half damage and deal about 50% more damage because of me. That is gigantic. Is both of these combined maybe too much?
I love the fact the GF will give the group a lot of support and buffs, but as a more rounded player, I would not like to see the GF become buffed to the heavens. Assuming a more average DR here, these changes mean a single ability is giving the entire party around a 45% damage boost. Divine Glow in DCs gives less damage on the affected enemies, and while it does damage, it does not give movement speed, Action Point gain, and temp hp.
My concern is that 100% of DR turning into damage bonus might be too much. We'll have to see when it hits the preview, but I hope GFs don't turn into the new utility CWs. And to clarify, I am not suggesting removing the Into the Fray change. I just want to raise reasonable awareness that, as of now, it is incredibly powerful for a single ability.
These are fair concerns but something to be mindful of is that in your proposed build you bring very little (if any) meaninful damage to the party. So you sacrifice a full players potential damage output for the benefits you bring, and with the incoming damage being heavily focused onto the GF it is quite likely you will need a Cleric to heal you (unless you far outgear the content). Given this you have gone from 5 DPS (or 4 DPS and a buffer, your choice) to 2 Buffer/Healers and 3 DPS. That said, it is entirely likely the amount of DR translated into damage might have to change, and we want that testing to get the tuning right.
Look at a cleric now. He ups damage by a ton, and lowers damage taken by a ton. I would say more than the 50%/50% you see with KV and IF. And clerics are nowhere near OP, or required.
Will the two stacking be too much? Will a party take no damage because of KV + cleric? That is fine, cuz the tank will be taking damage and will want/need the cleric. And with only 1 encounter to use, the GF, like the cleric, will not be adding that much personal dps.
Needs to be tested,and if need be tweaked, but I think before we worry about OP-ness lets see how it does....
EDIT: Lol crush and I are on the same page.
Well, this isn't over until it is over. Gentlemancrush, please don't make the stamina-guard go live, it was pushed by a vocal, well connected pvp-focused minority, comes with many problems and just destroys the spirit of the GF class.
Overall, these changes are actually playing on other class changes. Basically, a lot of the damage from the CW and survivability from the GWF, both of which were nerfed, have been transferred to utility/support from the GF, and this is excellent in my mind. Archery HRs were also buffed, leading to more balance overall, and we know changes to the TR/DC are in the works. This change is in the right direction, and as you said, testing will be required to tune the abilities to where they need to be.
I just didn't want people to under-appreciate the value of 50% bonus damage to the whole party. Keep up the good work :cool:
My Conqueror GF has 48.4% DR in DPS set, 47.8% DR in Knight Captain set
Add 15% to that from the Armor Specialization feat which is not reflected on the character sheet, making that 55.66% and 54.97% respectively.
So me using Intro the Fray buffs my party's damage (including my own apparently) by 55%.
If I use Knight Captain, I buff my party's damage (but not my own) additionally by ~6% (25% power)
As my GF (~9.4k power is rank 7s and green companions) is fully damage specced with high defense, I also contribute a fair amount of damage already to the group and do not require a cleric because of how powerful Fighter's Recovery daily power is (and Lifesteal on top).
So rather than a group being say 2 GWF / 3 CW, it will now be 2 GWF / 2 CW / 1 GF for example and overall dealing more damage than in mod 3 at present, as GWF is not losing any damage in mod4 (swordmasters anyway) and CW damage is only slightly decreased.
My feeling was that in mod 3, damage output generally is already too high due to buff/debuff stacking, and I don't see how this is being addressed at all in mod4.
If anything, players are just going to get even more powerful than before and PvE content ever more trivial.
What I would like to see is something to combat all the buffs to players so that content becomes challenging again, but not a DPS race to survive (such as in Valindra's Tower or Temple of the Spider)
I just wanna ask i have GF too i made it in beta(you can chek this if y want ) ,but i see devs over buffing CW/HR/GF .
Yesterday i was thinking the game will be balanced but now i am not soo sure .
I think this is too much if y do this after mod 4 all will ask nerf GF and i dont want this .
The KV change was cool but i think this will lead to total extinction of GWFs.
Give much lower bonuses pls .
I dont think all GF palying ppl agree with this change .
I want to play GF but if you owerbuff it and nerf it agan i dont think i will never spend money on this game .
First you eliminated Stalvart i lost 70mill AD and this was in mod 1 where rank 8 echants was much more worth.
Then i maked GWF. Nerfed it buffed it nerfed it buffed it and finaly maked GWF not desire for me agan i lost here more then 200kk .
But if i spend some money now agan for my GF, and you will turn it back to garbage agan i am not sure this is the game for me.
I dont have Dagobert Duck at home.
This wasn't clear for a long time, but now it is crystal clear the intent.
I am curious how useful these changes turn out to be in PvP.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Thanx Chris!!!!
Many GFs in pve for group support were running with Knight Captain's Set and Lunging/Enforced Theat /into the Fray.
With these Into the Fray buffs Gf will be more usefull in parties and more fun to play!
Control powers in pve are again most usefull for someone to know.GWrath stops casting of battlewights in iWD for anyone who do not know.GW was one of the most well designed powers of the Gf in potential and aesthetically.But it's slow animation made a lot of GFs to drop it.Finally GW is back!!!!
Anvil of Doom was extremely difficult to land a hit at 25% health remaining cause GFs in frustration were using before 25% less health .
And most of the times its bonus was wasted.
KB is a nice buff.It gives an alternative to a control/dps GF.So a GF can now choose between GW/KB/Bc/AoD/FS/Flourish.(Lunging never goes away)
These changes will make GFs more diversed in their builds .
I am excited!!
Thanx Chris!!!
Are you guys quite sure? Or should there be an similarity with the Devoted Cleric insofar that she offers better defensive possibilities for her team mates than for herself?