Drow Racial Preview

pwetrailturtle · November 2012

The drow are a calculating blight on Faerun, plotting to enslave and conquer in the name of their goddess Lolth, the Spider Queen – but some drow choose to become heroes.

Learn more about drow stats and lore in the blog post!

iamtruthseeker · November 2012

Very cool! Looking forward to the Race tab's official update when ready!

popsook69 · November 2012

You might also want to edit the site page listing all the races here (http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/races) to include the Drow racial traits and ability Trance. I noticed the traits weren't modified.

denkasaeba · November 2012

Yay, darkfire as expected, and it seems quite good. Perfect race for trickster rogue!

alsaroth · November 2012

Awsome, though I'll probably still stick with the tiefling. By the way, does anyone know if dexterity plays any role for a mage/sorcerer in 4th e? I think I read something, somewhere about dexterity having an impact on spellpowers chance to hit the target. Bogus?

denkasaeba · November 2012

alsaroth wrote: »

Awsome, though I'll probably still stick with the tiefling. By the way, does anyone know if dexterity plays any role for a mage/sorcerer in 4th e? I think I read something, somewhere about dexterity having an impact on spellpowers chance to hit the target. Bogus?

Wizard or Sorcerer? They are two completely different classes in 4e. For wizard it's useful, up to a certain extent (16ish), for wand builds: the big issue is that wizard primary stat is Int, meaning that you double up stats in a single defense (and the most useless in the game), leaving the other two lower. For sorcerers it can be a primary stat.

alsaroth · November 2012

denkasaeba wrote: »

Wizard or Sorcerer? They are two completely different classes in 4e. For wizard it's useful, up to a certain extent (16ish), for wand builds: the big issue is that wizard primary stat is Int, meaning that you double up stats in a single defense (and the most useless in the game), leaving the other two lower. For sorcerers it can be a primary stat.

I know they are different classes. "Wand builds"? "Double up stats"? "Can be primary stat"? *sigh* This is getting to complicated. Not fun anymore... Well, thanks for the answer.

denkasaeba · November 2012

alsaroth wrote: »

I know they are different classes. "Wand builds"? "Double up stats"? "Can be primary stat"? *sigh* This is getting to complicated. Not fun anymore... Well, thanks for the answer.

Wand builds means that they use wand as their implement ("magic channeler"), which kinda explains itself.

"double up stats" means that you have 3 defenses, Fortitude (Str and Con), Reflex (Dex and Int) and Will (Wis and Cha) that are buffed by the stats i put in the brackets: if you have high dexterity AND intelligence, this means that you will waste points on a useless stat, defense-wise. Naturally you gain other benefits (for instance, high initiative and some nice skill buffs), but you will have 2 weak defenses, while other wizard builds have only one.

"Can be primary stat" means that the main stat for sorcerers is charisma. Then you have a "secondary" important stat that for some builds is strength, for other builds is dexterity.

I hope i explained myself now.

popsook69 · November 2012

denkasaeba wrote: »

Wand builds means that they use wand as their implement ("magic channeler"), which kinda explains itself.

"double up stats" means that you have 3 defenses, Fortitude (Str and Con), Reflex (Dex and Int) and Will (Wis and Cha) that are buffed by the stats i put in the brackets: if you have high dexterity AND intelligence, this means that you will waste points on a useless stat, defense-wise. Naturally you gain other benefits (for instance, high initiative and some nice skill buffs), but you will have 2 weak defenses, while other wizard builds have only one.

"Can be primary stat" means that the main stat for sorcerers is charisma. Then you have a "secondary" important stat that for some builds is strength, for other builds is dexterity.

I hope i explained myself now.

Makes sense to me, options options.. I love it!

iamtruthseeker · November 2012

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

Very cool! Looking forward to the Race tab's official update when ready!

popsook69 wrote: »

You might also want to edit the site page listing all the races here (http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/races) to include the Drow racial traits and ability Trance. I noticed the traits weren't modified.

Umm, that's what I just replied to before, same link. Obviously not ready to list official features yet.

alsaroth wrote: »

Awsome, though I'll probably still stick with the tiefling. By the way, does anyone know if dexterity plays any role for a mage/sorcerer in 4th e? I think I read something, somewhere about dexterity having an impact on spellpowers chance to hit the target. Bogus?

I checked and could not find anything showing the stats and their class' importance to them (primary and so forth.) I asked if there was any information that was given out and it still appears propriatary. If somebody though does find anything released on video or screenshot to the public, do share it as we're all hungry to compare stuff like this!

popsook69 · November 2012

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

Umm, that's what I just replied to before, same link. Obviously not ready to list official features yet.
.....

My bad. I didn't clue in on your post!

alsaroth · November 2012

denkasaeba wrote: »

I hope i explained myself now.

Thanks, the rules makes a little more sense now. I guess I'll have to play the game to learn more about the rules.

munkyfist74 · December 2012

This game is going to be amazing!!!!!!!!!!

bighalsy · December 2012

Drow...a force for good? Really? Seriously? :rolleyes: Has this game sunk to that already? I guess the 666 levels of the Abyss will just be one giant day care center for adventurers who have kids, huh? Sigh. I knew a real successor to NWN was too good to be true.

zebular · December 2012

bighalsy wrote: »

Drow...a force for good? Really? Seriously? :rolleyes:

Yes indeed.

Considering that not all drow are evil, just like not all humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, and so on are good - I don't see the issue. This is a Forgotten Realms game and just by looking at some major NPCs and their stories, it's clear that there are a great deal of non-evil drow. Drizzt Do'Urden and Qilue Veladorn, just to name two of my favorite good drow. This also lends to another thing that has always stood the Realms apart is that every sentient life form in the Realms has the potential to be of any alignment or personality. Good Beholders? Yep! Good Red Dragons? Yep! Evil Paladins? You bet! Non-evil Liches? Sure! Good Kobolds? Indeed.

bighalsy wrote: »

Has this game sunk to that already? I guess the 666 levels of the Abyss will just be one giant day care center for adventurers who have kids, huh? Sigh. I knew a real successor to NWN was too good to be true.

I remember making an Elf in NWN and writing in he was a drow. The drow race is even included in NWN2, where I also played a good drow. So, with that and the a fore mentioned in mind, I don't understand why having good drow would be an affront to Neverwinter Nights.

pilf3r · December 2012

zebular wrote: »

Yes indeed.

Considering that not all drow are evil, just like not all humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, and so on are good - I don't see the issue. This is a Forgotten Realms game and just by looking at some major NPCs and their stories, it's clear that there are a great deal of non-evil drow. Drizzt Do'Urden and Qilue Veladorn, just to name two of my favorite good drow. This also lends to another thing that has always stood the Realms apart is that every sentient life form in the Realms has the potential to be of any alignment or personality. Good Beholders? Yep! Good Red Dragons? Yep! Evil Paladins? You bet! Non-evil Liches? Sure! Good Kobolds? Indeed.

I remember making an Elf in NWN and writing in he was a drow. The drow race is even included in NWN2, where I also played a good drow. So, with that and the a fore mentioned in mind, I don't understand why having good drow would be an affront to Neverwinter Nights.

Perhaps I am not understanding this discussion but Drow are not a force for good. In the forgotten realms there are "goodly races and evil races". The drow are part of the evil races they are generally kill on sight. Now ofc with 4e some of this has changed but to say Drow are a force for good is ludicrous. Sometimes we shall see goodly Drow but they are not representative of their race but rather renegades. The same way some of the goodly races can have "bad ones" but then like I said they are renegades and not representative of the race.

Quote Originally Posted by R.A. Salvatore in "The Orc King"

“I have ventured outside of the Silver Marches,” Drizzt said, “have you? I have witnessed the death of once-proud Luskan, and with it, the death of a dear, dear friend, whose dreams lay shattered and broken beside the bodies of five thousand victims. I have watched the greatest cathedral in the world burn and collapse. I witnessed the hope of the goodly drow, the rise of the followers of Eilistraee. But where are they now?”

“You speak in ridd—” the elf started, but Drizzt slammed him again.

“Gone!” Drizzt shouted. “Gone, and gone with them the hopes of a tamed and gentle world. I have watched once safe trails revert to wilderness, and have walked a dozen-dozen communities that you will never know. They are gone now, lost to the Spellplague or worse! Where are the benevolent gods? Where is the refuge from the tumult of a world gone mad? Where are the candles to chase away the darkness?”

Hralien had quietly moved around the wall and walked up beside Drizzt. He put a hand on the drow’s shoulder, but that brought no more than a brief pause in the tirade. Drizzt glanced at him before turning back to the captured elf.

“They are here, those lights of hope,” Drizzt said, to both elves. “In the Silver Marches. Or they are nowhere. Do we choose peace or do we choose war? If it is battle you seek, fool elf, then get you gone from this land. You will find death aplenty, I assure you. You will find ruins where once proud cities stood. You will find fields of wind-washed bones, or perhaps the remains of a single hearth, where once an entire village thrived.

“And in that hundred years of chaos, amidst the coming of darkness, few have escaped the swirl of destruction, but we have flourished. Can you say the same for Thay? Mulhorand? Sembia? You say I betray those who befriended me, yet it was the vision of one exceptional dwarf and one exceptional orc that built this island against the roiling sea.”

In some recent events we make some discoveries that once many races worked and lived together (ones that are now considered goodly and evil) but we don't know what happened to changes things. Why did war break out among these races that worked together?

This in turn leads to the creation of the Kingdom of many arrows, will this lead the Orcs to becoming a goodly race? Perhaps but it won't happen over night and the only reason they even managed to get so far as to create their own Kingdom is because of the intervention of their lead god Gruumsh.

zebular · December 2012

By that logic, Humans should be an Evil Race then for their are whole nations of evil humans or are they "outcasts" too? I don't know of any long-time DMs of the Realms that would argue that a good drow, or any race for that matter, could not be a force for good. Sure, maybe not the race as a whole, but there are definite instances of drow doing a lot of good. This latter is where I think context is being taken out.

I'd suggest doing more research into just exactly what makes races and alignments stand apart in the Realms from other Campaign Settings. The Realms, more often than not, follows its own "standards" in regards to races and alignments. Elminster's Ecologies is a good resource.

If one just goes by the novels they read, they will be missing the majority of lore, history and Campaign Setting of the Forgotten Realms.

pilf3r · December 2012

zebular wrote: »

By that logic, Humans should be an Evil Race then for their are whole nations of evil humans or are they "outcasts" too? I don't know of any long-time DMs of the Realms that would argue that drow, or any race for that matter, could not be a force for good. Sure, maybe not the race as a whole, but there are definite instances of drow doing a lot of good.

I'd suggest doing more research into just exactly what made a races and alignments stand apart in the Realms from other Campaign Settings. The Reals, more often than not, follows its own "standards" in regards to races and alignments.

It's fairly well known in the realms that the humans are special in that they are not goodly or evil as a whole like some of the older races but rather can go either way (this ties in with their race adaptability) and the older races see much potential in them and are unwilling to label them either way.

This has been explained in quite a few books but its so common knowledge I couldn't give you an a quote. I don't care if you have an enclave of drow that are more goodly, the drow as a race are evil and this is upkept by Lloth.

If I recall correctly Montolio Debrouchee explains the races to a confused Drizzt Do'Urden in Mooshies grove when Drizzt is new to the surface. I know I have read about this in other books as well but can't say for sure in which books.

A renegade by definition is "a deserter from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another " or "an individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior " so yes good drows are renegades.

Your mistake is trying to infuse "logic" into a lore related area.

I suggest you do more research into the lore of FR, you could start with reading this to understand why the drow are evil.

zebular · December 2012

Indeed, because of their descend in ancient history, and the culture imposed by Lolth, good drow just rarely survive long enough to make it to the Surface. It's even said newborn drow that have a certain eye colors are sacrificed to Lolth because it is a sign that the child will either be good or has non-drow blood. Elves are also special to the Realms, just as much, if no more so than Humans. Drow are elves and the actual "drow" race originates in the Realms. Drow are not born inherently evil. It is their culture and, as you pointed out, Lolth that imposes her will to try and keep good drow from existing.

Culture does not define a race's natural alignment in the Realms, it never has. Which brings me back to my point that in the Realms, all races have the potential to be of any alignment regardless of their source information. It is other Campaign Settings and the choice of the Dungeon Master that dictate otherwise.

I do know for a fact that this note on alignment is stated somewhere in source information, I believe it was one of Elminster's Ecologies, but cannot be certain. Even the Dragons go by their own rules and definitions in the Realms and may be of any alignment.

pilf3r · December 2012

zebular wrote: »

Indeed, because of their descend in ancient history, and the culture imposed by Lolth, good drow just rarely survive long enough to make it to the Surface. It's even said newborn drow that have a certain eye colors are sacrificed to Lolth because it is a sign that the child will either be good or has non-drow blood. Elves are also special to the Realms, just as much, if no more so than Humans. Drow are elves and the actual "drow" race originates in the Realms. Drow are not born inherently evil. It is their culture and, as you pointed out, Lolth that imposes her will to try and keep good drow from existing.

Culture does not define a race's natural alignment in the Realms, it never has. Which brings me back to my point that in the Realms, all races have the potential to be of any alignment regardless of their source information. It is other Campaign Settings and the choice of the Dungeon Master that dictate otherwise.

I do know for a fact that this note on alignment is stated somewhere in source information, I believe it was one of Elminster's Ecologies, but cannot be certain. Even the Dragons go by their own rules and definitions in the Realms and may be of any alignment.

Indeed and I'm not arguing the mumble jumble of what is good and evil and if something is inherently evil but as you have just admitted the drow became evil long ago and therefore as a race are evil, this isn't up for debate.

Now whether the drow race as a whole can ever become good again well it will depend if they ever get out of Lloths grip. I don't really care about other campaign settings and about homebrew versions in these forums I am interested in core lore and what ever homebrew lore decisions Cryptic makes.

As a race, drow are usually evil. Exceptions exist, the most notable being Drizzt Do'Urden, Jarlaxle Baenre, and Liriel Baenre, but these are highly unusual. (Note that even Liriel Baenre was arguably of evil alignment for the first portion of her life, only shifting to a good alignment after close relationships with several good-aligned characters.) Originally, drow were chaotic evil in alignment. Beginning with 3rd edition D&D, drow are usually neutral evil. There have been encounters with non-evil drow, but these are distrusted as much as their brethren, due to their reputation. The Drow followers of Eilistraee are the largest group of good Drow, as Eilistraee is the patron goddess of all Drow that have a good alignment.

I find it really annoying when people cross from core lore into philosophical debates.

Anyhoot seems we have gone off topic enough.

bighalsy · December 2012

It's been well established that most races of the Underdark are - for all intents and purposes - evil. Yes, there are abberations, but on the whole they are overwhelmingly evil. The Drow, Illithids, Kuo Toa, Duergar, etc. It's the reason there have always been G/N/E races in D&D - with all their corresponding variants. Humans on the other hand run the gamut. It's why certain realms are evil - e.g. Thay - and others are not. Point is they're common and Drow are uncommon and a good Drow is as rare as they come and that's what makes him special. When you start making exceptions all the time then you have hundreds or thousands of them and they're not special anymore.

Seeing as people can create modules as is their wont, there's no reason not to run evil campaigns for evil races where you get to make deliciously evil choices. I'll puke if I see 100 clones of the wuss-with-the-scimitars running around. I'd like to see areas where alignment comes into play. If a band of Drow strolled up to the gates of Waterdeep they might not be attacked on sight but they sure wouldn't let them in. Whereas in Skullport no one would bat an eye at them being there. It's just not D&D without these sorts of divisions. I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to play the race they want - hell, I want to play a minotaur ala Dragonlance - but simply shredding canon so anyone can do whatever they want really diminishes the game for those of us who have been involved in D&D for a long time. It's also why the IP has been hurting and systems like Pathfinder have happily taken up the slack.

I think this is the problem with a persistent online world. You can't set those sorts of rules where at least on my private server I could. I hope at the very least that you can set these universal type rules for modules at any rate.

jacies · December 2012

Plus if you read up Drow is actually just a variant of a surface elf that was cast out for worshiping Lloth in the wars that lead up to Corellon Larethian cursing them all for kin slaying and banishing them. I do not think you can be considered a goodly race when your race is literally a cursed offshoot of the elf race.

iamtruthseeker · December 2012

jacies wrote: »

Plus if you read up Drow is actually just a variant of a surface elf that was cast out for worshiping Lloth in the wars that lead up to Corellon Larethian cursing them all for kin slaying and banishing them. I do not think you can be considered a goodly race when your race is literally a cursed offshoot of the elf race.

But if you're going with that allegory, then you have to look at the ones who were saved with Eilistraee's sacrifice now removed from the "Drow taint" and just "Dark Elves."

So the race has the potential to be "goodly" just not as a collective if they "embrace" Lloth. I'll leave the "Drow exiles" to the interpretation of the individual.

pilf3r · December 2012

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

But if you're going with that allegory, then you have to look at the ones who were saved with Eilistraee's sacrifice now removed from the "Drow taint" and just "Dark Elves."

So the race has the potential to be "goodly" just not as a collective if they "embrace" Lloth. I'll leave the "Drow exiles" to the interpretation of the individual.

Actually the drow are still evil but there is now a new "sub race" which means the race just split again.

Meanwhile Q'arlynd Melarn succeeds in re-transforming the descendants of Miyeritar and followers of Eilistraee from drow to dark elves, whereafter Corellon Larethian takes this new elven subrace under his protection.

Anything has the "potential" to be goodly as goodly is very subjective. Like we have been saying the drow are evil minus a few renegades, outcast or rebels etc

tiima1 · December 2012

Most drow are singularly wicked. Straight out of the 4th ed FR player's handbook. The race description then makes it a point that if you're a drow, you should seriously think about why you're an adventurer. Of course, being an adventurer doesn't mean you can't also be evil! I wonder if NWO will allow evil aligned characters?

iamtruthseeker · December 2012

tiima1 wrote: »

Most drow are singularly wicked. Straight out of the 4th ed FR player's handbook. The race description then makes it a point that if you're a drow, you should seriously think about why you're an adventurer. Of course, being an adventurer doesn't mean you can't also be evil! I wonder if NWO will allow evil aligned characters?

As mentioned in several threads and in my FAQ, there is no alignment option in NWO. It's a moot point.

zeoxz · December 2012

too bad it isnt similar to neverwinter nights 1 & 2
or the hard to make dark elf
Paladin + blackguard + rogue/monk/fighter

would be fun ^^

(cha from eq and buffs)

valandur1 · December 2012

Well whenever the game permits I always roll/create a Chaotic neutral Drow Thief! CN is just the alignment I play since my D&D days. Drow thieves are (to me) the ultimate character.

. I guess the debuff they mention is fairy fire?

zeoxz · December 2012

valandur1 wrote: »

Well whenever the game permits I always roll/create a Chaotic neutral Drow Thief! CN is just the alignment I play since my D&D days. Drow thieves are (to me) the ultimate character. . I guess the debuff they mention is fairy fire?

should be darkfire for drow..

A flickering halo of purple light surrounds target

tiima1 · December 2012

iamtruthseeker wrote: »

As mentioned in several threads and in my FAQ, there is no alignment option in NWO. It's a moot point.

Well, the question of whether or not evil aligned characters are 'allowed' is a moot point, you're right on that. The fact that Drow are generally evil, murderous, devious Lloth worshipers (and are regarded with the utmost suspicion) in FR is still valid, and anyone playing one in an RP setting will probably want to keep that in mind. NWO being an MMO, though, I'm sure many people will just roll Drow for the stat spread and racials.

[edit] I'm baking gingerbread men right now, and I think I might make some Drow ones when my wife isn't looking.

ghosty2a · December 2012

Ok, I aint played PnP dnd in a long time, and was never any sort of lore and cannon regurgitator to begin with. And I no very littel about 4e stuff, other than what I have been abel to gleen from these forums. But that said, from what I have read here, there is a whole new world basicly. The combination of what ever Being escaped, or tried to escape, from under Mount Hotenow ( sp/ ), and the death, or total isolation from, the gods, has made whatever was in the past,.. gone. What ever concepts of good, evil, whatever, does not exist any more. Nor has it for more than a century, so all creatures have had time to adjust by now I would think.

" I'm baking gingerbread men right now, and I think I might make some Drow ones when my wife isn't looking."
Man, you must be a glutton for "wife aggro"

Drow Racial Preview

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