...What ever concepts of good, evil, whatever, does not exist any more. Nor has it for more than a century, so all creatures have had time to adjust by now I would think.
" I'm baking gingerbread men right now, and I think I might make some Drow ones when my wife isn't looking."
Man, you must be a glutton for "wife aggro"
In cannon pnp 4e dnd, alignments are alive and well. Drow tend towards evil (chaotic evil, specifically). Many of the old gods are dead, true, but lots of them survived, and new ones were born. The races can be of any alignment, but most have strong tendencies one way or another, and the drow race has very strongly 'classical' evil leanings (they are type-cast as bad guys). You can technically have a good black dragon too, but that doesn't make it likely.
The 4e books do explain that concepts of good and evil are somewhat subjective, in the sense that individuals rarely think of their actions as actively 'evil' or 'good', which is why it's possible to have evil paladins or good demon-pact warlocks. We could get into a whole debate about the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point of this thread. There are good and evil specific artifacts in 4e, however (Hand of Vecna, for instance) and I wonder how NWO is going to deal with that side of things if they're not using alignments as a character attribute/descriptor.
As for wife agro, I have none, and never have We started playing warcraft together before we got married, and actually met over a pnp shadowrun game (I gave her chocolate, and the rest is history).
[SIGPIC]Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.[/SIGPIC]
tiima1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
Old school (pre 4e) Drow were only available as a leveled race - I think they were effective level 4? But yes, they got fairy fire and globe of darkness... I think they also got levitate. All these are available to 4e drow, but the racial attribute bonuses are more balanced, and you can't just throw around your racial magic willy nilly... they're encounter powers.
[SIGPIC]Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.[/SIGPIC]
Personally I think the race looks good. But to each his own.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited January 2013
I've really liked what I've seen of the Drow too. I also am one who liked how Turbine made their drow look also. I'm very particular about my drow too and anyone who's played in my PnP Campaign will let you know that I am obviously biased towards female drow.
I haven't played PnP in a long time and only recently bought the 4e manual to get an idea for the game, but generally Drow are "evil" and characters like Drizzt are meant to be special and unique. However, this being an MMO, doors are going to be open for a wider crowd of players/and the idea of role-playing.
Unfortunately when it comes to stats and classes and how these two mechanics work it is going to be hard to say for certain due to a PnP game turning into an action MMO.
I haven't played PnP in a long time and only recently bought the 4e manual to get an idea for the game, but generally Drow are "evil" and characters like Drizzt are meant to be special and unique. However, this being an MMO, doors are going to be open for a wider crowd of players/and the idea of role-playing.
Unfortunately when it comes to stats and classes and how these two mechanics work it is going to be hard to say for certain due to a PnP game turning into an action MMO.
Things have changed while you were in stasis during spellplague. Lore of game is correct. Check the post-spellplague changes - or click on Lore Info in my signature.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
And the city of Neverwinter has come up with this "release"
Things have changed while you were in stasis during spellplague. Lore of game is correct. Check the post-spellplague changes - or click on Lore Info in my signature.
Yeah, I've been reading through some of the lore. Thanks for the link as well.
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited January 2013
About drow, it's my understanding that large sections of land above the underdark collapsed, laying open the areas and the creatures - drow - populating them. A lot of the drow simply shuffled around the underdark, but a lot of the drow came up to the land.
A lot of drow were probably lured to Neverwinter for the same reason a number of others were - the chance to rebuild it in their image, or gain at the least gain a foothold there.
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ghrysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Point is they're common and Drow are uncommon and a good Drow is as rare as they come and that's what makes him special. When you start making exceptions all the time then you have hundreds or thousands of them and they're not special anymore.
Aren't any drow on the surface uncommon? If pooling the ratio of good to evil drow when only considering those on the surface, good becomes less rare indeed.
I personally think people focus on alignment too much. The real issue is that drow adventurers are rare, in fact any drow that is not part of the workings and culture of underdark is rare. Since drow are going to be played by players and thus will be adventurers, there will be plenty of good drow.
But honestly, I'm wondering how much players will be playing in character to begin with as there is only going to be one server with no outside rules enforcement. We'll be lucky if people roleplay period, let alone worry about if their drow will fit into the statistical norm.
Personally, my Drow fighter will be evil. Drizzt -is- relatively unique. The race itself was originally intended to be the evil counterpoint to the good surface elves. However, with the Cataclysm, portions of the Underdark now have ready access to the surface. Indeed, some dark elves have taken it upon themselves to become acclimated to the sun and begin raiding the puny surface dwellers regularly. Some infiltrate, some trade....but not all are by any means "good".
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Personally, my Drow fighter will be evil. Drizzt -is- relatively unique. The race itself was originally intended to be the evil counterpoint to the good surface elves. However, with the Cataclysm, portions of the Underdark now have ready access to the surface. Indeed, some dark elves have taken it upon themselves to become acclimated to the sun and begin raiding the puny surface dwellers regularly. Some infiltrate, some trade....but not all are by any means "good".
Not all are bad either, there was even an underground complex dedicated to the Good Drow Goddess Eilistrasee called The Promenade ruled by one of the Seven Sisters, who was a drow, named Qilue Veladorn.
Good drow are more common than many want to allow themselves to believe. The reason few make it to the surface is because they're either killed at birth (eye color) or they are hunted down and sacrificed to Lolth. But yes, the Cataclysm has made it easier for good drow to escape the Underdark and make it to the surface.
Drow aren't even shunned by Corellon anymore, thanks to Eilistresee's sacrifice. Times have changed and we must adapt to the new order of things and new lore.
If I were an evil drow....
I come to the surface to hunt down those nasty smelly humans and elves and take them back to my High Priestess to sacrifice to Lolth. Interacting with surface dwellers usually consists of hissing, stabbing and the cursing of their very being as they do the same in return while I beat them into submission. I then bind and gag them and well, do what I came here to do, take them back down below to be sacrificed to my dark Goddess. I might even walk among some of the tolerant cities, like Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, or Neverwinter and find a few good houses to watch. When the time is right, I would break in and murder all the adults in the houses and take their children down below to my High Priestess to be sacrificed.
If I were a good drow....
I come to the surface to escape a life of oppression and murder, never knowing when I might be caught and sacrificed to the vile Spider Demon my vile kin call Lolth. I would travel to a large city where many races dwell and I would have a greater chance at fitting in and being a part of society. Thus, I would either turn to Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, or Neverwinter. Even in these more tolerant cities, I would find myself constantly trying to prove to the other city dwelling races that I am not here to steal their children and take them back down to the Underdark. I would either enlist in helping to serve and protect the city I live in or I would become a trading merchant, traveling between those three cities I mentioned before.
I've got you beat Zeb, back in the early eighties I played a Chaotic Neutral(good tendency)half drow/half high-elf. I had to play as a half-elf. He dual wielded scimitars and was a Fighter/Magic User/Thief. I'll probably have to go with the Hero of the North pack to even get close to recreating him but I'm optimistic it'll be worth it.
P.S. for my 2cents earliest beta code recipients should be in earliest beta, only fair guys. If you want to sell the packs give access to ongoing Alpha.
Orcus bane, Knight-wanderer of the Sword Coast
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slymaetalilaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited January 2013
My first PnP character happened to be a Neutral Good Drow rogue (who I still use to this day, how he's survived so many near-death episodes is beyond me). I admit I was influenced by Drizzt in terms of my desire to play as a drow, but overall I don't think I really "copied" Drizzt so much as was inspired by him (as I'd been heavy into reading the novels involving him). He dual wielded shortswords/scimitars (usually just shortswords, he happened upon an enchanted scimitar in one adventure which I believe he still has even now), and for all intents and purposes, I had planned to make him in here again to relive my old days of PnP adventuring mishaps. However on the facebook notice, I saw a few people talking about us having to "buy" the drow race. I'm not sure if that is just an assumption based on the Founders pack release or what, but any clarification as to whether drow will be available to all players from the offset or only as a "buy it to play as it" race would be greatly appreciated, as I admit much of my excitement for Neverwinter stemmed from the belief that I would be able to play as my drow again, with no jumping through hoops or unavailability of the race to those who don't pay.
Journeys never truly end
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shiaikaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
I saw a few people talking about us having to "buy" the drow race.
Drow are free as race (as are humans, dwarves...) The pack only gives some kind of background that can be applied to drows. I think that zebular mentioned it somewhere yesterday.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Drow are free as race (as are humans, dwarves...) The pack only gives some kind of background that can be applied to drows. I think that zebular mentioned it somewhere yesterday.
Indeed, the Menzoberranzan Renegade is NOT a race. What it is, is a Drow Racial Background Selection that, when chosen for your drow in character creation, will grant your drow unique and specific tratis, such as a costume, abilities and tattoos. We apologize for the poor wording in the articles that were put out by the Media.
Indeed, the Menzoberranzan Renegade is NOT a race. What it is, is a Drow Racial Background Selection that, when chosen for your drow in character creation, will grant your drow unique and specific tratis, such as a costume, abilities and tattoos. We apologize for the poor wording in the articles that were put out by the Media.
Ah that makes things much better for me, I was worried I'd lose much of my interest in the game (yes, I'm that interested in playing drow, it's a large reason for me desiring to play). Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize for having missed you stating it earlier, there's simply too much on the forums to sift through for an answer to such a small question. Thank you very much for the clarification!
Journeys never truly end
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Ah that makes things much better for me, I was worried I'd lose much of my interest in the game (yes, I'm that interested in playing drow, it's a large reason for me desiring to play). Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize for having missed you stating it earlier, there's simply too much on the forums to sift through for an answer to such a small question. Thank you very much for the clarification!
No problem! We're having just as much fun keeping up with the forum activity as well.
Indeed, the Menzoberranzan Renegade is NOT a race. What it is, is a Drow Racial Background Selection that, when chosen for your drow in character creation, will grant your drow unique and specific tratis, such as a costume, abilities and tattoos. We apologize for the poor wording in the articles that were put out by the Media.
Only Heroes of the North will receive exclusive access to the
MENZOBERRANZAN RENEGADE
a unique playable race armed with the "Faerie Fire" racial ability and tattoo cosmetic option. Like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do'Urden, explore the realm of Faerun as a Drow exiled from the Dark Elf stronghold of Menzoberranzan, City of Intrigue.
That's literally the text you get when trying to pre-purchase...
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Only Heroes of the North will receive exclusive access to the
MENZOBERRANZAN RENEGADE
a unique playable race armed with the "Faerie Fire" racial ability and tattoo cosmetic option. Like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do'Urden, explore the realm of Faer
That's literally the text you get when trying to pre-purchase...
I do agree, the wording is confusing and I have requested that it be looked into for a better way to word it. What it basically means though, which is why it is confusing the way it is worded, is that it will make your Drow (free race) able to choose a Unique Background Heritage when creating your Drow. This will enable the unique things that it lists to allow you to make your Menzoberranzan Renegade.
The email newletter on this is MUCH more clear however:
Unique Menzoberranzan Renegade racial background with unique racial ability and costume options!
I got the explanation (by you) before though, just wanted to show that it wasn't just an error in the media coverage but also on this very website too.
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shiaikaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
Ah your right,
Did olden D&D Drow get fairy fire as one of their racial abilities?
In cannon pnp 4e dnd, alignments are alive and well. Drow tend towards evil (chaotic evil, specifically). Many of the old gods are dead, true, but lots of them survived, and new ones were born. The races can be of any alignment, but most have strong tendencies one way or another, and the drow race has very strongly 'classical' evil leanings (they are type-cast as bad guys). You can technically have a good black dragon too, but that doesn't make it likely.
The 4e books do explain that concepts of good and evil are somewhat subjective, in the sense that individuals rarely think of their actions as actively 'evil' or 'good', which is why it's possible to have evil paladins or good demon-pact warlocks. We could get into a whole debate about the nature of good and evil, but that's not the point of this thread. There are good and evil specific artifacts in 4e, however (Hand of Vecna, for instance) and I wonder how NWO is going to deal with that side of things if they're not using alignments as a character attribute/descriptor.
As for wife agro, I have none, and never have
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Aww...
I have nothing to add. If I could sacrifice all drow to bring her back I would, but she won't like that so there goes my plan.
Give her back! Moon is not complete without her dance!
Unfortunately when it comes to stats and classes and how these two mechanics work it is going to be hard to say for certain due to a PnP game turning into an action MMO.
*~Serixil Kor'hedron- Drow Trickster~*
Things have changed while you were in stasis during spellplague. Lore of game is correct. Check the post-spellplague changes - or click on Lore Info in my signature.
Yeah, I've been reading through some of the lore. Thanks for the link as well.
*~Serixil Kor'hedron- Drow Trickster~*
A lot of drow were probably lured to Neverwinter for the same reason a number of others were - the chance to rebuild it in their image, or gain at the least gain a foothold there.
Aren't any drow on the surface uncommon? If pooling the ratio of good to evil drow when only considering those on the surface, good becomes less rare indeed.
I personally think people focus on alignment too much. The real issue is that drow adventurers are rare, in fact any drow that is not part of the workings and culture of underdark is rare. Since drow are going to be played by players and thus will be adventurers, there will be plenty of good drow.
But honestly, I'm wondering how much players will be playing in character to begin with as there is only going to be one server with no outside rules enforcement. We'll be lucky if people roleplay period, let alone worry about if their drow will fit into the statistical norm.
No. Check Neverwinter:Lore| in my sig and then races.
*Every time if I get a cent when I type that...*
DROW is common class as PC.
EDIT: 2 posts above this one actually ... but not a big deal.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Good drow are more common than many want to allow themselves to believe. The reason few make it to the surface is because they're either killed at birth (eye color) or they are hunted down and sacrificed to Lolth. But yes, the Cataclysm has made it easier for good drow to escape the Underdark and make it to the surface.
Drow aren't even shunned by Corellon anymore, thanks to Eilistresee's sacrifice. Times have changed and we must adapt to the new order of things and new lore.
If I were an evil drow....
I come to the surface to hunt down those nasty smelly humans and elves and take them back to my High Priestess to sacrifice to Lolth. Interacting with surface dwellers usually consists of hissing, stabbing and the cursing of their very being as they do the same in return while I beat them into submission. I then bind and gag them and well, do what I came here to do, take them back down below to be sacrificed to my dark Goddess. I might even walk among some of the tolerant cities, like Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, or Neverwinter and find a few good houses to watch. When the time is right, I would break in and murder all the adults in the houses and take their children down below to my High Priestess to be sacrificed.
If I were a good drow....
I come to the surface to escape a life of oppression and murder, never knowing when I might be caught and sacrificed to the vile Spider Demon my vile kin call Lolth. I would travel to a large city where many races dwell and I would have a greater chance at fitting in and being a part of society. Thus, I would either turn to Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, or Neverwinter. Even in these more tolerant cities, I would find myself constantly trying to prove to the other city dwelling races that I am not here to steal their children and take them back down to the Underdark. I would either enlist in helping to serve and protect the city I live in or I would become a trading merchant, traveling between those three cities I mentioned before.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
P.S. for my 2cents earliest beta code recipients should be in earliest beta, only fair guys. If you want to sell the packs give access to ongoing Alpha.
Journeys never truly end
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Ah that makes things much better for me, I was worried I'd lose much of my interest in the game (yes, I'm that interested in playing drow, it's a large reason for me desiring to play). Thank you for the clarification, and I apologize for having missed you stating it earlier, there's simply too much on the forums to sift through for an answer to such a small question. Thank you very much for the clarification!
Journeys never truly end
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Only Heroes of the North will receive exclusive access to the
MENZOBERRANZAN RENEGADE
a unique playable race armed with the "Faerie Fire" racial ability and tattoo cosmetic option. Like the legendary ranger Drizzt Do'Urden, explore the realm of Faerun as a Drow exiled from the Dark Elf stronghold of Menzoberranzan, City of Intrigue.
That's literally the text you get when trying to pre-purchase...
The email newletter on this is MUCH more clear however:
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I got the explanation (by you) before though, just wanted to show that it wasn't just an error in the media coverage but also on this very website too.