I think much goes hand in hand with the communication part of this game, I hardly see anyone using the mic in a PUG and people hardly ever writes something... and since it's not your GT shown in the group I guess many feel that "nobody knows who I am" and find it easy to abuse the VtK mechanic.
"I was with a group on my cleric that was chain kicking to get a friend to join in........ I bet 50% of kicks would stop if there were a way to add a person to the group and have them join the instance. If not, it will never stop"
There is a way, group up and then group leader queue for the dungeon. I just hate it when the noobs get to the last boss and wipe, cleric rage quits and then the noobs keep kicking people until a cleric joins. That's what I assume is happening.
The community on the game is way out of hand. The kicking is abused. I seen kicking for the need of a Tank & healer. But I have also been kicked at the boss for being the only player alive. I tried joining "active" guides but the can still not find a stable party to run the T2 maps. & when people say active, I guess the mean their guild has over 100+ people with only 10 the max logged on at a time. I been in 3 different guilds now & had the same end resaults.This is becoming really frustrating & it's killing the game for many people. This is not the normal community of RPG players.
I read somewhere that the leader can turn off the automatic add when someone leaves. I am at work so I cant look and see for myself. If this is the case then instead of booting everyone trying to get a specific friend in, why not turn off the Que or whatever, and then invite your friend. This will stop a lot of the booting random people constantly.
Anyone know if this is an actual feature the leader can toggle?
The community on the game is way out of hand. The kicking is abused. I seen kicking for the need of a Tank & healer. But I have also been kicked at the boss for being the only player alive. I tried joining "active" guides but the can still not find a stable party to run the T2 maps. & when people say active, I guess the mean their guild has over 100+ people with only 10 the max logged on at a time. I been in 3 different guilds now & had the same end resaults.This is becoming really frustrating & it's killing the game for many people. This is not the normal community of RPG players.
I hear ya... really hard to find a decent guild with players to actually play with. Most the guilds are mass invite guilds and at the tops has 10-20 players max active but nobody answering ^^
Agree the QUE system and random popping into dungeons at bosses is a pain in the rear.
Guilds help.
Another thing (considering that basically nobody enjoys mass kicking pugs sitting at a boss area) that anybody can do... Head to Whispering Caverns, keep an eye on LFG chat, put together your own group, make sure everybody has headsets, start Party Chat, set dungeon rules, figure out where you're going to go, QUE for the dungeon of your choice, rinse & repeat.
The community on the game is way out of hand. The kicking is abused. I seen kicking for the need of a Tank & healer. But I have also been kicked at the boss for being the only player alive. I tried joining "active" guides but the can still not find a stable party to run the T2 maps. & when people say active, I guess the mean their guild has over 100+ people with only 10 the max logged on at a time. I been in 3 different guilds now & had the same end resaults.This is becoming really frustrating & it's killing the game for many people. This is not the normal community of RPG players.
I don't think anyone has seen anything quite like this on console before. Newbies, including me, are having to find our way around and figure out what's going on. It's going to take a while for the community to evolve, I think.
My gear score is 8369 atm and I managed the spider queen yesterday and placed second and all the other guys in the team was 10k+gs.
All am saying from my point of view is that if you know what your doing then you should be kept in the team. i mainly blame the kicking for the game chat, it's totaly messed up atm and needs to be fixed, am running 18mbps and my chat it always laggin.
Kind of off topic, but bandwidth matters less than ping when it comes to lag. You could have 50 Mbps down/up, but if your ping higher than 150 ms, you'll see lag.
I'm not so sure the problems with chat are network related. The chat in some zones just completely stops working sometimes. Other times it works fine. I think there's something else going on there...
Because a lot of players are still noobs and/or don't know how to play their class. A lot of Clerics suck at being Clerics and tanks that suck at being tanks. DPS that run ahead and get the whole party wiped and players that are straight up ********. Your best bet is to join a guild and group queue. For someone to get kicked, you only need two people to vote yes. That's right. Two.
Look, I am not totally 100% positive if this is true because I have played a lot of PC MMO's to include this one, but I specifically remember there NOT being a gear score requirement for these dungeons, this was requested by the community, at first we had to kind of guess and they all go in a order by difficulty. "Any other launch PC player correct me here"
There seems to be a little confusion, so let me elaborate on gear score requirements in this game.
The MINIMUM required gear score is the equipment rating you need to have to just not be completely destroyed in there, and as long as the rest of the group is where they " SHOULD " be for the content meaning : If I queue for an instance with the min gear score I am looking for a carry, yes you may be skilled and all that, but it would still "be better, and YOU will do even better" by shooting far above it.
One of the very first complaints on the PC forum @ launch of this game was that those requirements are WAY to low, and they are exactly that : the basic requirements to not get destroyed.
I would specifically suggest having a set of T1 before trying T2 and have a gear score of 12k before dealing with the frustration that is castle never being lower than that.
Ultimately this comes down to a very lackluster dungeon finder group tool. My GS is 11k in a full dungeon my damage is usually top or second and I rarely die if there is a tank and a Cleric in the group unless I get some Murphy's law in the face. All that said I have been kicked by a 6k GS Warlock without ever hitting a mob because he wanted a Cleric........and this guy terrorized the queue for that dungeon for a good 20 mins.....
Problem is the group tool stinks. If the tool forced a healer and tank as mandatory then all this would stop. Yes it would slow down how fast you get a replacement....but you would have started with what you need and rather than vote kick first time someone messes up you might slap on that Mic that came with your xbox and actually try to help.....crazy thought.
I do think the 1st thing they need to revise is the score requirements for entering some of these dungeons.
When you hit lvl60 you should be able to enter cragmire for example and then as you get better it opens more dungeons.
I am a scourge warlock with about 9.5k score and some of the T2 dungeons are tough.
The only T2 that is tough is Dread Vault. Temple of the Spider isn't even hard if the people know how to play and do the last boss. All the rest of the T2's are cake.
The only T2 that is tough is Dread Vault. Temple of the Spider isn't even hard if the people know how to play and do the last boss. All the rest of the T2's are cake.
If you get people that know what they are doing though.
This is why I think the entrance score requirements need to be revised/staggered. People need to learn the basics when entering epic dungeons so start them off with Cloak and Cragmire, then progress to Idris etc etc.
Certain dungeons can be difficult such as Wolf Den if the shadow wolves are not dealt with quick enough, or Mad Dragon as the adds have healing powers.
The Spider Temple can be tough as the final boss can heal (so require high DPS group) and the adds can insta-kill players such as warlocks that generally have low HP
Here's a specific example of one of the problems with the kick tool:
Last night, 3 guildies and I que'd for Epic Ice Spire - a CW (me), GF, DC, & TR.
Other guildies were unavailable, so just the 4 of us que'd.
5th member was a random, he/she happened to be another CW.
We all enter the dungeon at the starting point - a fresh QUE, yay!
Before we leave the campfire or get a chance to invite the other CW.
I hear over party chat "this guy is trying to kick you" (directed at me).
Now, IDK why the other CW wanted to kick me, it was less than 10 seconds before we all entered the dungeon, and nothing had happened in combat or otherwise to warrant a kick.
He obviously didn't take GS into account & in his haste didn't bother to notice that the 4 of us were in the same guild.
Group chat consisted on 3 "lol"s, and I did something I rarely do, voted yes to a kick.
The problem for me is being kicked after the boss is killed, but before loot is taken. That's the kicking that needs to be fixed.
I don't see a problem with kicking people at the boss. I understand how it is unfair to kick someone if they have done the whole dungeon and all the groups I have been in at least let the people they are considering to kick to attempt the boss with us a few times. If they aren't cutting it or they just don't understand what they are doing, even when they are in party chat. Then we kick.
I have 12.6k gs and it frustrates me when I'm doing Dread Vault on Epic and someone with the minimum gs is trying to do it. Sure you can get in, but more than likely you're gonna die instantly and not know your role because it's a whole new monster on epic than normal.
Work your way up, I did it that way. I still get kicked even when I'm the highest gs. Those people probably already have someone on their friends list they are trying to get in their group after someone backs out. Just fix the kicking after boss is dead.
Yeah but its the constant kicking for no good reason that's the issue, legitimate reasons are few and far between
I kick if you keep picking up green gear while everyone else is fighting... I warn first though. Past 20 you shouldn't be picking up that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway but it's a problem when people are trying to fight and see health bars to plan how they will make their next move and you are spamming loot rolls on everyone's screen.
Past 20 you shouldn't be picking up that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway[...]
While I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post, I cannot agree here. I myself maintain a decent amount of gold (since there's sadly literally nothing to use it on beyond healing and repair until you get further in the Dragon campaign), but know many guild-mates that seem to struggle to keep up with those items they need when doing more difficult dungeons - not to mention pulling out Enchants when upgrading equipment.
12k Gs SW here and i agree, kicking is mentle atm.
Twice i'v been kicked in a dung after doing a full run, killing the end boss, then get booted before i can claim my reward because i out dps a rogue (People who do that are pricks, simple)
I'v been kicked because i had an artifact belt on, and that it made me a "scrub"
I'v been kicked by other SW with lower stats, simply because its competition
And i'v been kicked for winning a Epic need (if its for my class, why would i greed it?)
Mostly, its stupid reasons for the kicks, and people say yes because it's not them getting kicked.
This is what happens when a PC MMORPG meets Xbox i guess.
This option shouldn't be allowed.(At least not than one time per dungeon)
99% of the time there're no reasons to kick someone out.
The kicker fanatics should be playing solo RPGs and not MMO RPG /online videogames.
You could remove the option to kick. That would fix 90% of the problem. I think it would be better to quit a game because of bad people in a group than calling to remove everyone else. If the jerks who keep kicking for non-issues like class, GS, a wipe or two, etc. are so unhappy, THEY should leave the group. Removing the kick option wouldn't solve every case, but it would make more people happy than the current kick system.
Honestly just make a tank and healer mandatory that way they will always fill first then make three non healer/tank slots mandatory. If you want a non standard group composition don't use the group finder you don't need it anyway.
Also add a kick timer of say fifteen minutes....you vote yes on a kick and then go on a cool down and cannot kick for 15 or 20 minutes. If you vote no on A kick then you can still vote kick and eject bad players or trolls if needed.
If you were to remove the kick option altogether you could have a great group with one person running around chain pulling the whole dungeon laughing and no way to stop it.......
The vote kick option is by far better than how it used to be..Party Leader had full control..defeat last boss, loot drops, kick, kick, kick, kick, keep all for self with zero repercussions.
Kicking for Gear Score is just stupid and shows the general mentality that some players have. GS means nada, it seriously doesn't mean jack. Its the first thing people look at and they base their decision whether to kick, or not to kick solely on that number.
Kicking for not playing well...that is really a party thing. If there are party member(s) not playing well, talk to them and see whats up. make suggestions, if they keep it up then do what you do.
Wait'll you all start getting kicked by the people that team up and pug. groups of three (to maintain majority) and kick just as the last boss is about to go down...or the Party Leader who is a chart checker, one who checks the charts after every fight/encounter, and if they are not at the top, they start to initiate kicks....
This problem has persisted on NWPC for too long, and I'm sure it will on NWXB as well.
Solutions: Get into a good guild, run with friends and accept that you will get kicked every once in awhile if you pug.
Xboxers have one distinct advantage over their PC counterparts: Negative reviews of a gamertag...use it.
The vote kick option is by far better than how it used to be..Party Leader had full control..defeat last boss, loot drops, kick, kick, kick, kick, keep all for self with zero repercussions.
Kicking for Gear Score is just stupid and shows the general mentality that some players have. GS means nada, it seriously doesn't mean jack. Its the first thing people look at and they base their decision whether to kick, or not to kick solely on that number.
Kicking for not playing well...that is really a party thing. If there are party member(s) not playing well, talk to them and see whats up. make suggestions, if they keep it up then do what you do.
Wait'll you all start getting kicked by the people that team up and pug. groups of three (to maintain majority) and kick just as the last boss is about to go down...or the Party Leader who is a chart checker, one who checks the charts after every fight/encounter, and if they are not at the top, they start to initiate kicks....
This problem has persisted on NWPC for too long, and I'm sure it will on NWXB as well.
Solutions: Get into a good guild, run with friends and accept that you will get kicked every once in awhile if you pug.
Xboxers have one distinct advantage over their PC counterparts: Negative reviews of a gamertag...use it.
I agree with your point of view for the most part and I fully plan on giving them a reasonable time frame to fix core issues like performance and the functionality of the group tool. It's funny the group tool has been given so little attention, this games best features are group only and it is essentially built around the trinity group composition. A point will come if issues are not addressed where many of the most fickle community in the world (MMO gamers) will post the angry review and unpin and bail....me being one although I really hope they get it together.
There needs to be like a timer on being able to kick people from lobbies because i cant stay in dungeons for longer then 1 minute without being kicked randomly. Its irritating when people don't even give you a chance to do anything.
are you queuing for the T2 dungeons? most people kick if you have a lower gear score then they do, or your not the class they were hoping for.. it sucks
Comments
I mean a way to join a instance in progress
I read somewhere that the leader can turn off the automatic add when someone leaves. I am at work so I cant look and see for myself. If this is the case then instead of booting everyone trying to get a specific friend in, why not turn off the Que or whatever, and then invite your friend. This will stop a lot of the booting random people constantly.
Anyone know if this is an actual feature the leader can toggle?
I hear ya... really hard to find a decent guild with players to actually play with. Most the guilds are mass invite guilds and at the tops has 10-20 players max active but nobody answering ^^
Guilds help.
Another thing (considering that basically nobody enjoys mass kicking pugs sitting at a boss area) that anybody can do... Head to Whispering Caverns, keep an eye on LFG chat, put together your own group, make sure everybody has headsets, start Party Chat, set dungeon rules, figure out where you're going to go, QUE for the dungeon of your choice, rinse & repeat.
I don't think anyone has seen anything quite like this on console before. Newbies, including me, are having to find our way around and figure out what's going on. It's going to take a while for the community to evolve, I think.
All am saying from my point of view is that if you know what your doing then you should be kept in the team. i mainly blame the kicking for the game chat, it's totaly messed up atm and needs to be fixed, am running 18mbps and my chat it always laggin.
I'm not so sure the problems with chat are network related. The chat in some zones just completely stops working sometimes. Other times it works fine. I think there's something else going on there...
Look, I am not totally 100% positive if this is true because I have played a lot of PC MMO's to include this one, but I specifically remember there NOT being a gear score requirement for these dungeons, this was requested by the community, at first we had to kind of guess and they all go in a order by difficulty. "Any other launch PC player correct me here"
There seems to be a little confusion, so let me elaborate on gear score requirements in this game.
The MINIMUM required gear score is the equipment rating you need to have to just not be completely destroyed in there, and as long as the rest of the group is where they " SHOULD " be for the content meaning : If I queue for an instance with the min gear score I am looking for a carry, yes you may be skilled and all that, but it would still "be better, and YOU will do even better" by shooting far above it.
One of the very first complaints on the PC forum @ launch of this game was that those requirements are WAY to low, and they are exactly that : the basic requirements to not get destroyed.
I would specifically suggest having a set of T1 before trying T2 and have a gear score of 12k before dealing with the frustration that is castle never being lower than that.
Problem is the group tool stinks. If the tool forced a healer and tank as mandatory then all this would stop. Yes it would slow down how fast you get a replacement....but you would have started with what you need and rather than vote kick first time someone messes up you might slap on that Mic that came with your xbox and actually try to help.....crazy thought.
When you hit lvl60 you should be able to enter cragmire for example and then as you get better it opens more dungeons.
I am a scourge warlock with about 9.5k score and some of the T2 dungeons are tough.
If you get people that know what they are doing though.
This is why I think the entrance score requirements need to be revised/staggered. People need to learn the basics when entering epic dungeons so start them off with Cloak and Cragmire, then progress to Idris etc etc.
Certain dungeons can be difficult such as Wolf Den if the shadow wolves are not dealt with quick enough, or Mad Dragon as the adds have healing powers.
The Spider Temple can be tough as the final boss can heal (so require high DPS group) and the adds can insta-kill players such as warlocks that generally have low HP
Last night, 3 guildies and I que'd for Epic Ice Spire - a CW (me), GF, DC, & TR.
Other guildies were unavailable, so just the 4 of us que'd.
5th member was a random, he/she happened to be another CW.
We all enter the dungeon at the starting point - a fresh QUE, yay!
Before we leave the campfire or get a chance to invite the other CW.
I hear over party chat "this guy is trying to kick you" (directed at me).
Now, IDK why the other CW wanted to kick me, it was less than 10 seconds before we all entered the dungeon, and nothing had happened in combat or otherwise to warrant a kick.
He obviously didn't take GS into account & in his haste didn't bother to notice that the 4 of us were in the same guild.
Group chat consisted on 3 "lol"s, and I did something I rarely do, voted yes to a kick.
I don't see a problem with kicking people at the boss. I understand how it is unfair to kick someone if they have done the whole dungeon and all the groups I have been in at least let the people they are considering to kick to attempt the boss with us a few times. If they aren't cutting it or they just don't understand what they are doing, even when they are in party chat. Then we kick.
I have 12.6k gs and it frustrates me when I'm doing Dread Vault on Epic and someone with the minimum gs is trying to do it. Sure you can get in, but more than likely you're gonna die instantly and not know your role because it's a whole new monster on epic than normal.
Work your way up, I did it that way. I still get kicked even when I'm the highest gs. Those people probably already have someone on their friends list they are trying to get in their group after someone backs out. Just fix the kicking after boss is dead.
I kick if you keep picking up green gear while everyone else is fighting... I warn first though. Past 20 you shouldn't be picking up that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> anyway but it's a problem when people are trying to fight and see health bars to plan how they will make their next move and you are spamming loot rolls on everyone's screen.
Money is money. (But not while fighting.)
Twice i'v been kicked in a dung after doing a full run, killing the end boss, then get booted before i can claim my reward because i out dps a rogue (People who do that are pricks, simple)
I'v been kicked because i had an artifact belt on, and that it made me a "scrub"
I'v been kicked by other SW with lower stats, simply because its competition
And i'v been kicked for winning a Epic need (if its for my class, why would i greed it?)
Mostly, its stupid reasons for the kicks, and people say yes because it's not them getting kicked.
This is what happens when a PC MMORPG meets Xbox i guess.
VOTE NO, BASH B
99% of the time there're no reasons to kick someone out.
The kicker fanatics should be playing solo RPGs and not MMO RPG /online videogames.
Also add a kick timer of say fifteen minutes....you vote yes on a kick and then go on a cool down and cannot kick for 15 or 20 minutes. If you vote no on A kick then you can still vote kick and eject bad players or trolls if needed.
If you were to remove the kick option altogether you could have a great group with one person running around chain pulling the whole dungeon laughing and no way to stop it.......
Kicking for Gear Score is just stupid and shows the general mentality that some players have. GS means nada, it seriously doesn't mean jack. Its the first thing people look at and they base their decision whether to kick, or not to kick solely on that number.
Kicking for not playing well...that is really a party thing. If there are party member(s) not playing well, talk to them and see whats up. make suggestions, if they keep it up then do what you do.
Wait'll you all start getting kicked by the people that team up and pug. groups of three (to maintain majority) and kick just as the last boss is about to go down...or the Party Leader who is a chart checker, one who checks the charts after every fight/encounter, and if they are not at the top, they start to initiate kicks....
This problem has persisted on NWPC for too long, and I'm sure it will on NWXB as well.
Solutions: Get into a good guild, run with friends and accept that you will get kicked every once in awhile if you pug.
Xboxers have one distinct advantage over their PC counterparts: Negative reviews of a gamertag...use it.
Branch Lead
I agree with your point of view for the most part and I fully plan on giving them a reasonable time frame to fix core issues like performance and the functionality of the group tool. It's funny the group tool has been given so little attention, this games best features are group only and it is essentially built around the trinity group composition. A point will come if issues are not addressed where many of the most fickle community in the world (MMO gamers) will post the angry review and unpin and bail....me being one although I really hope they get it together.