Sometimes its difficult or impossible to complete dungeon (especialy boss fights) with bad team.
Or people behave stupid runing into group of mobs dying, afking at campfire, etc.
Or just don';t listening to good advices others give them.
Then there is time to vote kick.
But I'd like to see some changes.
Put a timer on vote kick!
Do not allow vote kick when party enters boss area.
It's the most annoying thing you may encounter.
For whatever reason you short man, with only four party member into boss area,
then some random guy jumps in and spams vote kicks on every party member.
It happes many times before, people were kicking by mistke
(lots of action and you want to get rid of pop up window).
Especcialy in dungeons where clering mobs till the boss fight take very long time.
People jump in random instances, kicking others then waiting for their guildies/friends to join them.
It's almost impossible to report them, because when plp are joining group you dont get their handle in chat.
If you get kicked, because party is waiting for heals/tank and you join with your dps class,
don't worry, you can still reQ and try again.
The best way is to go into dungeons with your guildmates or people you may find on /lfg channel.
Then you can chose what party members you will have in your team.
One vote per session/dungeon is enough.
Players who are unhappy or feels "so much powerful" should leave instead of kick voting.
Would be nice, in the first place to have more civil/friendly players,who use game chat instead of blindly kicking other players....(usually giving explainations,asking to leave resolves a lot frustrations).....
Two decades ago,the big frustation in MMOs was to be disconnected,now other players are doing it for you.
The times I have started a vote kick, I always speak what the person is doing like stop looting in a fight, or stop running out ahead of the tank. I know they can hear me through their TV, so either they don't care or don't understand english, because usually they never stop.
The beauty of xbox is reguardless of a mic, the others can hear you.
This will never stop, and anyone doing a pre made is 99% of the time looking for a carry, and asking for a GS so high that anyone qualified doesn't need the loot.
Answer is simple:
Start your own pre made groups
Join a pre made group
Deal with bads in the dungeon finder
Instead of raging, I'll just explain my most recent experience:
Being a rogue, I am familiar with getting vote kicked. But finally I found a tier 2 group for spellplague.
Things are going okay, but we had an additional rogue who didn't know how to deal with the final boss and wouldn't listen to voice or text chat. So he gets kicked, and in comes a cw. Then we lose another, but we still have our core group of three who had run the entire dungeon. Another cw comes in and we're like "Oh, great; this should be easy now." And 1, 2, 3: all three of the core group was kicked.
We had spent TWO HOURS in there (the other rogue aggro'd everything), only to lose the chance at the final epics.
What a tremendous waste of time.
I don't know if the vote-kick timer is the solution or if something else is; all I do know is that between connection issues and vote-kicks, the frustration is enough to make me not enjoy the game any more.
I'm not going to kick anyone for picking up loot during combat, but please stop. It's not going anywhere, it'll be there after we beat that boos/whatever.
I'll kick leechers 100% of the time, every time! Stuff happens, I get it, if you need to step off say so/message and no problem, otherwise if you're not participating you're dead weight.
Too many parties not focusing on the end boss at all, clerics not healing, and spending all the time messing with the adds and failing. I hate to see at the end that I've scored 2x times as much as the rest of the party in dmg... Are people starting to just sleep through these?
clerics not healing, and spending all the time messing with the adds and failing. I hate to see at the end that I've scored 2x times as much as the rest of the party in dmg... Are people starting to just sleep through these?
As a cleric primary, I often see dps classes not cleaning up ads leaving me running for my life as the aggro on me. As a cleric, your damage score should always dwarf mine. If my healing score is in the millions, you can thank me for allowing your HAMSTER to get that damage score.
It's the group finder design, there should be priority on tank and healer always because it's a trinity game design. Encounters are designed around having both a healer and a tank in the group so the tool not requiring them in the group makes it a failing tool. Not having a cool down on a YES vote kick is also a fail and encourages keyboard crushers and griefers to act out.
I can only assume the group finder has no class requirements because they wanted to speed up queue times....and that would be great if this game wasn't balanced for having a Healer/Tank/DPS-Control to complete a dungeon....for the average player anyway. This is straight up a design issue that is turning one of the main focuses of this game into a miserable troll fest when it could be easily fixed with some required class and a kick cool down implementations.
This game does not have a trinity design, it is people like you making assumptions without thinking them through that is the cause of this problem to begin with. As the OP said, he and the CW could stay up no problem indefinitely. The reason people "need" a healer and tank is so that they can stand in red and jerk off to the DPS meter.
Groups don't need healers, but they will kick until they get one and then kick the healer when they die. Any class can survive most encounters by moving out of the red and using potions that are on short timers, cheap, and drop frequently. Labeling this a trinity design is you shifting responsibility for your poor game play.
If you don't have the ability to move out of red and monitor your health and potion use I understand, it isn't easy. Understand that the game isn't designed for you, it may be a little to hard. Maybe heroics aren't for you, maybe you need to form your own groups to ensure that a tank and healer are there to pick up your slack. This isn't a problem for me, but don't blame game design then the problem is you.
A couple problems
1. Kicks should be unanimous
2. Once kicked, restrict from rejoining the same group when requeue.
3. Allow for a mandatory tank, dps dps dps heal setup option when queuing.
i queued for the T1 epic lair of the mad dragon and was kick 27 times from different instances my gear score is over 9k, im a guardian fighter. i still think they need to limit the queues so you have the dedicated rolls filled. instead of being able to kick people. and there really needs to be a ignore loot below x rank implemented IMO
I guess I'm lucky that I haven't been kicked yet, but usually most groups will hold on to their cleric. I have noticed that a lot of people are eagerly ready to kick if the other person shows as disconnected, which seems to always be due to them timing out when trying to joining.
My main issue is that I wish you could always be teamed up with a tank. Sometimes rogues and wizards just don't have what it takes. I remember trying to do Mad Dragon 5 times without a tank. Finally someone left, we got a tank, and we finished. I don't like kicking people, but if we have two rogues and no tank, sometimes it's best to let one of those rogues go in hopes a tank will magically join. It shouldn't be like that at all. The system should make sure a tank and cleric are going to be grouped up with others.
I don't know whats going on every dungeon is friggin unplayable due to unfair kicking cause of a class. The kicking should be only for misleading rules.. If you kick cause you need a tank or healer how about you build your own. Finding random groups for dungeons is really impossible even to get drakes for Master gear.
Ok I have a couple ideas I wish to toss around and see if they can be implemented or I'm just completely just out of zone. I have been frequently kicked numerous times from dungeons, on multiple characters. Many for unknown reasons, so I am kind of tired of doing dungeons (especially when you spend 5 dang hours and then they like kick you at final boss in Castle never), would there be a way to implement a filter of sorts to allow x individual(s) in and keep the ones that do not meet the specifications out? Example: I am in need of a cleric with a gear score of 12k and rogue with a 10k gear score. If not that then something along the lines of that on a smaller scale. Like for instance just a cleric can enter. This will I think help cut down from the constant kicks, unless in all reality the group you still get in with are just rude. But I'm trying to find a solution to an ever growing problem.
What do yall think???
*WALL OF TEXT WARNING* Not a bad idea, but I think you're generalizing a problem. The main issue for kicking isn't the wanting of a tank/healer (ironically...), the actual issue is that most people seem to kick others because they don't like the competition for gear. Picture a group consisting of a Devoted Cleric, Guardian Fighter, Trickster Rogue, and a Scourge Warlock. Now, another Trickster Rogue appears (and for the sake of the argument, has a higher gear score by 1000 points when compared to the other one) and enters the group. The first TR isn't going to like that.... 1: Because that puts him at risk for a kick (even though two TRs are a mega-debuff and VERY useful!!!!) and 2: he has competition for any epic gear that drops now (let's be honest, people are always needing on their gear drops). TR1 now votes to kick TR2 for no real reason......and poof! TR2 is gone! Its that simple. The majority of the time, I (much like many others on these forums..) will join a group and see there is no tank/healer and just leave- so that the group may get a healer. I don't mind this, I wouldn't want to be a group that has no heals/ set tank either. I'm just pointing out that the massive group kicks happen to be from greedy players who act like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.... "I want the world! I want the WHOLE world!" And whatnot...
The best solution for all players (at this moment) is to find a calm, friendly, casual-active guild and run with those members. As a secondary notion- guilds that currently have active members should watch their current members and spot the "Elitists" and promptly kick them from their guild. You don't want Elitists in your guild.. People remember guild names quite well and you can earn a bad rep which may cause other members of said guild to experience poor game interaction... (Imagine being picked on because 1 member of the guild you're in decided to be a jerk and gave you guys a bad name...) It happens. It happened a bit during my time on PC and it'll happen here too. Best advice is to honestly become friends with people, and get into party chat.
Walk on wandering souls For your respite we pray Let our humble song clear your hearts of dismay, Rekindle the flame in your souls and set you free So walk on and become the light that guides the way~
ok perfect world, you need to raise the required gear scores to do the dungeons. Here's why!
Myself I'm sitting at almost 17k but that's hardly the point, what all you people who are getting kicked all the time need to think of is!! Am I ready for this dungeon, all I hear is so and so kicked me.... Wa wa wa, well guess why, queuing up for castle never runs at the bare minimum 9300 is foolish, that instance should have a 13500 required!! Yes you can do any dungeon, but seriously I put in the time I don't want to carry every single person who joins under geared. As much as I'm thinking about myself for not wanting to waste my time, or at the very least optimize it to maximize runs. Your trying to get your gear before your ready for it.... Earn your way up!! Get all blues then do your t1 dungeons, work on your gems a bit them progress to t-2, just because your at the minimum doesn't mean you should be playing there...
I worked hard to get my toon up! Between helping my guild and people I know, I don't have the patience to do carries in pug's. This isn't elitist this is realistic.
And as elitist as this is, when I run t2 9k on any dungeon is an instant boot... Solely on the fact that you don't contribute to the team at 9k. Except cleric or healer warlock, only exceptions!! You guys need to wake up and see why your getting kicked!
Who wants to waste 3 hours doing a raid that should take 20 mins... And yes I run t2 dungeons in 20 mins not all but some
So what you are saying is that this is the only reason people getting kicked?
I think this is maybe 20-30% of the times people are getting kicked... I bet that the person that are setting up the vote are not even checking the player who just joined, if he just happen to NOT be a guildmate OR the same class as you... hey lets put a vote on him then.
Sure, I agree that the required GS for higher level dunegons are total mess but I don't think that is the main problem for the VK problem.
Btw, wiryed... sounds more like you are here to brag about your GS
its just the losers that want to be funney i got kicked from a orc event skermish but i dont realy care i run cn in 1h with my team i found in a pug groop
I'm just saying what my point of view is about the current problem. That's all
The problem isn't gear score (which doesn't really matter much at all), the problem is people like you. You are the cause of the rampant kicking problem; you are what needs to be fixed.
wiryred what is your Gamertag? This way I know who to block so I never team up with you in this game or outside this game by accident. The GS is the GS for a reason. Is it possible to run that dungeon in 9k Gear? Most likely. The devs have testers who have to test the minimum requirements for the dungeons as well as everything else. They dont just sit down and go "Oh this is a good number lets go with this." They actually have had players who can easily run it in 9k gear. Hence the 9k minimum. Now just because "you" want a speed run is no reason to vote kick someone. That in and of itself, is actually abusing the kick system, the very thing that is wrong with the vast majority of these dungeons. With that being said, however, if a player isnt pulling their weight, IE not contributing (AFK etc) go ahead and boot them. But don't boot them simply because you want a speed run or no competition for say Warrior Gear. If you want those, set up a group "before" you enter the dungeon. Do not demand that of a PUG. Also another food for thought: Other players actually have lives and may not have the time to sit down and grind for gear 24/7 like you seem to have been able to do as evidenced by your boasting about your gear score. While it is impressive, and good for you that you got it, there are still players who actually want to "enjoy" the game and dont see everything as a way to one up everyone else.
Weirad i wud boot u also if i gt qued up with u but wen ur with guildies u just boot all randomers anyways because wen guildies do a dung u only need 3/5 ppl n u can boot anyone u like its tht simple
*WALL OF TEXT WARNING* Not a bad idea, but I think you're generalizing a problem. The main issue for kicking isn't the wanting of a tank/healer (ironically...), the actual issue is that most people seem to kick others because they don't like the competition for gear. Picture a group consisting of a Devoted Cleric, Guardian Fighter, Trickster Rogue, and a Scourge Warlock. Now, another Trickster Rogue appears (and for the sake of the argument, has a higher gear score by 1000 points when compared to the other one) and enters the group. The first TR isn't going to like that.... 1: Because that puts him at risk for a kick (even though two TRs are a mega-debuff and VERY useful!!!!) and 2: he has competition for any epic gear that drops now (let's be honest, people are always needing on their gear drops). TR1 now votes to kick TR2 for no real reason......and poof! TR2 is gone! Its that simple. The majority of the time, I (much like many others on these forums..) will join a group and see there is no tank/healer and just leave- so that the group may get a healer. I don't mind this, I wouldn't want to be a group that has no heals/ set tank either. I'm just pointing out that the massive group kicks happen to be from greedy players who act like Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.... "I want the world! I want the WHOLE world!" And whatnot...
The best solution for all players (at this moment) is to find a calm, friendly, casual-active guild and run with those members. As a secondary notion- guilds that currently have active members should watch their current members and spot the "Elitists" and promptly kick them from their guild. You don't want Elitists in your guild.. People remember guild names quite well and you can earn a bad rep which may cause other members of said guild to experience poor game interaction... (Imagine being picked on because 1 member of the guild you're in decided to be a jerk and gave you guys a bad name...) It happens. It happened a bit during my time on PC and it'll happen here too. Best advice is to honestly become friends with people, and get into party chat.
This is SO true. PC vs Console players are entirely different in terms of respect for one another. Why that is I have no idea... anyone who is a psychology major find some time to do a senior research symposium on this I'm sure you'll call a LOT of attention to yourself haha! Anyways... Until this problem is fixed I agree with you. Finding a guild full of active, friendly, similar GS or leveled members to run with is your best option to not get a bunch of randos risking your chances at both a) completion of a dungeon and b) the well known "vote-kick" problem. Much like I have already done, post a respectful, idea-filled thread for the dev's to look at and brainstorm and work your way around the problem as many are already doing; until it is fixed this problem WILL exist. Love the ideas by the way!
Guess what? I boot people with gear scores as high as yours. Anyone who has spent that much time and money in the 1 month this game has been out usually ends up being an elitist jerk. That takes my fun away even if the run ends up being a little bit harder. Get over yourself.
I'm thinking about setting up a site that is focused on finding 5 players for dungeons where the editcut is not to kick. It could be the only way to do these dungeons as kicking is all to regular occurrence unfortunately.
Wouldn't it be nice being in a team where you know that similar minded people are playing with you who don't care about bloody gear score or 2 too many of X or what ever.
The problem isn't gear score (which doesn't really matter much at all), the problem is people like you. You are the cause of the rampant kicking problem; you are what needs to be fixed.
So I should sacrifice my gaming experience to carry people who are under geared? That's not going to happen!
So I should sacrifice my gaming experience to carry people who are under geared? That's not going to happen!
Then don't stand in a PuG que... go with 4 other guildies
I don't mind people being undergeared, been there myself... if I want a quicker run I go with 4 other guildies.... if I join a PuG I don't complain and I try to make the best out of the situation... I see it more like a test of my skills instead of others being undergeared.
wiryred what is your Gamertag? This way I know who to block so I never team up with you in this game or outside this game by accident. The GS is the GS for a reason. Is it possible to run that dungeon in 9k Gear? Most likely. The devs have testers who have to test the minimum requirements for the dungeons as well as everything else. They dont just sit down and go "Oh this is a good number lets go with this." They actually have had players who can easily run it in 9k gear. Hence the 9k minimum. Now just because "you" want a speed run is no reason to vote kick someone. That in and of itself, is actually abusing the kick system, the very thing that is wrong with the vast majority of these dungeons. With that being said, however, if a player isnt pulling their weight, IE not contributing (AFK etc) go ahead and boot them. But don't boot them simply because you want a speed run or no competition for say Warrior Gear. If you want those, set up a group "before" you enter the dungeon. Do not demand that of a PUG. Also another food for thought: Other players actually have lives and may not have the time to sit down and grind for gear 24/7 like you seem to have been able to do as evidenced by your boasting about your gear score. While it is impressive, and good for you that you got it, there are still players who actually want to "enjoy" the game and dont see everything as a way to one up everyone else.
Look all I'm asking is for the gear score requirements to be raised, why should people like me who either put in hard work or money have to carry someone who didn't? Someone who is trying to shortcut the system by going into a dungeon your not ready for?
Then don't stand in a PuG que... go with 4 other guildies
I don't mind people being undergeared, been there myself... if I want a quicker run I go with 4 other guildies.... if I join a PuG I don't complain and I try to make the best out of the situation... I see it more like a test of my skills instead of others being undergeared.
Could also say that argument of all the under geared people getting kicked!
Could also say that argument of all the under geared people getting kicked!
Nah not really, it's not them destroying the experiance... it's the people kicking them. What you are saying is that if the dunegon requires lets say 10k GS to be able to enter it all the people with 10k GS should not que for this instance? I bet you never done this either... you always join a dunegon with at least 2-3k GS above the required?
As I stated before, it's not the people queing for a PuG that destroyes the gaming experience... it's the people that kick people from a PUG, a PUG is what you get... if you don't want to carry someone, well then run with your guild...
But hey I'm sure all you 9k gear scores love dying over and over at a boss? Short and simple of it, as long as the current system remains in place, people like me will kick any under geared for that reason alone! Don't like getting kicked gear properly, I myself never get kicked unless they are looking for a cleric, But being a reasonable person I understand why they would, I don't come here and cry that I'm getting kicked all the time!
Comments
Or people behave stupid runing into group of mobs dying, afking at campfire, etc.
Or just don';t listening to good advices others give them.
Then there is time to vote kick.
But I'd like to see some changes.
Put a timer on vote kick!
Do not allow vote kick when party enters boss area.
It's the most annoying thing you may encounter.
For whatever reason you short man, with only four party member into boss area,
then some random guy jumps in and spams vote kicks on every party member.
It happes many times before, people were kicking by mistke
(lots of action and you want to get rid of pop up window).
Especcialy in dungeons where clering mobs till the boss fight take very long time.
People jump in random instances, kicking others then waiting for their guildies/friends to join them.
It's almost impossible to report them, because when plp are joining group you dont get their handle in chat.
If you get kicked, because party is waiting for heals/tank and you join with your dps class,
don't worry, you can still reQ and try again.
The best way is to go into dungeons with your guildmates or people you may find on /lfg channel.
Then you can chose what party members you will have in your team.
Players who are unhappy or feels "so much powerful" should leave instead of kick voting.
Would be nice, in the first place to have more civil/friendly players,who use game chat instead of blindly kicking other players....(usually giving explainations,asking to leave resolves a lot frustrations).....
Two decades ago,the big frustation in MMOs was to be disconnected,now other players are doing it for you.
The beauty of xbox is reguardless of a mic, the others can hear you.
This will never stop, and anyone doing a pre made is 99% of the time looking for a carry, and asking for a GS so high that anyone qualified doesn't need the loot.
Answer is simple:
Start your own pre made groups
Join a pre made group
Deal with bads in the dungeon finder
Being a rogue, I am familiar with getting vote kicked. But finally I found a tier 2 group for spellplague.
Things are going okay, but we had an additional rogue who didn't know how to deal with the final boss and wouldn't listen to voice or text chat. So he gets kicked, and in comes a cw. Then we lose another, but we still have our core group of three who had run the entire dungeon. Another cw comes in and we're like "Oh, great; this should be easy now." And 1, 2, 3: all three of the core group was kicked.
We had spent TWO HOURS in there (the other rogue aggro'd everything), only to lose the chance at the final epics.
What a tremendous waste of time.
I don't know if the vote-kick timer is the solution or if something else is; all I do know is that between connection issues and vote-kicks, the frustration is enough to make me not enjoy the game any more.
I'll kick leechers 100% of the time, every time! Stuff happens, I get it, if you need to step off say so/message and no problem, otherwise if you're not participating you're dead weight.
Too many parties not focusing on the end boss at all, clerics not healing, and spending all the time messing with the adds and failing. I hate to see at the end that I've scored 2x times as much as the rest of the party in dmg... Are people starting to just sleep through these?
As a cleric primary, I often see dps classes not cleaning up ads leaving me running for my life as the aggro on me. As a cleric, your damage score should always dwarf mine. If my healing score is in the millions, you can thank me for allowing your HAMSTER to get that damage score.
This game does not have a trinity design, it is people like you making assumptions without thinking them through that is the cause of this problem to begin with. As the OP said, he and the CW could stay up no problem indefinitely. The reason people "need" a healer and tank is so that they can stand in red and jerk off to the DPS meter.
Groups don't need healers, but they will kick until they get one and then kick the healer when they die. Any class can survive most encounters by moving out of the red and using potions that are on short timers, cheap, and drop frequently. Labeling this a trinity design is you shifting responsibility for your poor game play.
If you don't have the ability to move out of red and monitor your health and potion use I understand, it isn't easy. Understand that the game isn't designed for you, it may be a little to hard. Maybe heroics aren't for you, maybe you need to form your own groups to ensure that a tank and healer are there to pick up your slack. This isn't a problem for me, but don't blame game design then the problem is you.
1. Kicks should be unanimous
2. Once kicked, restrict from rejoining the same group when requeue.
3. Allow for a mandatory tank, dps dps dps heal setup option when queuing.
Most issues I see in game come from these issues.
My main issue is that I wish you could always be teamed up with a tank. Sometimes rogues and wizards just don't have what it takes. I remember trying to do Mad Dragon 5 times without a tank. Finally someone left, we got a tank, and we finished. I don't like kicking people, but if we have two rogues and no tank, sometimes it's best to let one of those rogues go in hopes a tank will magically join. It shouldn't be like that at all. The system should make sure a tank and cleric are going to be grouped up with others.
What do yall think???
The best solution for all players (at this moment) is to find a calm, friendly, casual-active guild and run with those members. As a secondary notion- guilds that currently have active members should watch their current members and spot the "Elitists" and promptly kick them from their guild. You don't want Elitists in your guild.. People remember guild names quite well and you can earn a bad rep which may cause other members of said guild to experience poor game interaction... (Imagine being picked on because 1 member of the guild you're in decided to be a jerk and gave you guys a bad name...) It happens. It happened a bit during my time on PC and it'll happen here too. Best advice is to honestly become friends with people, and get into party chat.
For your respite we pray
Let our humble song clear your hearts of dismay,
Rekindle the flame in your souls and set you free
So walk on and become the light that guides the way~
Myself I'm sitting at almost 17k but that's hardly the point, what all you people who are getting kicked all the time need to think of is!! Am I ready for this dungeon, all I hear is so and so kicked me.... Wa wa wa, well guess why, queuing up for castle never runs at the bare minimum 9300 is foolish, that instance should have a 13500 required!! Yes you can do any dungeon, but seriously I put in the time I don't want to carry every single person who joins under geared. As much as I'm thinking about myself for not wanting to waste my time, or at the very least optimize it to maximize runs. Your trying to get your gear before your ready for it.... Earn your way up!! Get all blues then do your t1 dungeons, work on your gems a bit them progress to t-2, just because your at the minimum doesn't mean you should be playing there...
I worked hard to get my toon up! Between helping my guild and people I know, I don't have the patience to do carries in pug's. This isn't elitist this is realistic.
Who wants to waste 3 hours doing a raid that should take 20 mins... And yes I run t2 dungeons in 20 mins not all but some
I think this is maybe 20-30% of the times people are getting kicked... I bet that the person that are setting up the vote are not even checking the player who just joined, if he just happen to NOT be a guildmate OR the same class as you... hey lets put a vote on him then.
Sure, I agree that the required GS for higher level dunegons are total mess but I don't think that is the main problem for the VK problem.
Btw, wiryed... sounds more like you are here to brag about your GS
This is SO true. PC vs Console players are entirely different in terms of respect for one another. Why that is I have no idea... anyone who is a psychology major find some time to do a senior research symposium on this I'm sure you'll call a LOT of attention to yourself haha! Anyways... Until this problem is fixed I agree with you. Finding a guild full of active, friendly, similar GS or leveled members to run with is your best option to not get a bunch of randos risking your chances at both a) completion of a dungeon and b) the well known "vote-kick" problem. Much like I have already done, post a respectful, idea-filled thread for the dev's to look at and brainstorm and work your way around the problem as many are already doing; until it is fixed this problem WILL exist. Love the ideas by the way!
Wouldn't it be nice being in a team where you know that similar minded people are playing with you who don't care about bloody gear score or 2 too many of X or what ever.
Thanks
So I should sacrifice my gaming experience to carry people who are under geared? That's not going to happen!
Then don't stand in a PuG que... go with 4 other guildies
I don't mind people being undergeared, been there myself... if I want a quicker run I go with 4 other guildies.... if I join a PuG I don't complain and I try to make the best out of the situation... I see it more like a test of my skills instead of others being undergeared.
Look all I'm asking is for the gear score requirements to be raised, why should people like me who either put in hard work or money have to carry someone who didn't? Someone who is trying to shortcut the system by going into a dungeon your not ready for?
Could also say that argument of all the under geared people getting kicked!
Nah not really, it's not them destroying the experiance... it's the people kicking them. What you are saying is that if the dunegon requires lets say 10k GS to be able to enter it all the people with 10k GS should not que for this instance? I bet you never done this either... you always join a dunegon with at least 2-3k GS above the required?
As I stated before, it's not the people queing for a PuG that destroyes the gaming experience... it's the people that kick people from a PUG, a PUG is what you get... if you don't want to carry someone, well then run with your guild...