I honestly just wish they had queuing out of the game, ESPECIALLY after level 60. It would prevent people from whining.
Seriously. This is not the first thread on this subject, nor the last. Why don't you guys stop complaining about being kicked, n queuing for hours and just join an active guild. Joining a guild helps give you more game immersion. Gives you more people to play with. Experienced players to learn from and new players to teach.
My thoughts on public queues for harder dungeons, is if you do it(on console) especially with something other then a GF or Cleric, you obviously don't want to finish it. between trolls, server issues, and new level 60s trying to play harder dungeons, the odds are against you. Even if no trolls kick you, with public matches you may never stand a chance against the boss.
So seriously, why not go join a clan, get some friends? Why play an mmo without others to play with that you know?
Ok, So this subject is popping up over and over... Before we give the Devs the notion that we really want the kick system removed and regret it later, let's discuss what the big issues with it currently are.
I'm not going to go into huge details, but I'll pretty much lists most of the reasons people vote to kick and also list some things YOU can do to lessen your chances of being kicked.
Good Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Trying to pick up a Cleric or Guardian Fighter
2. A previous member made the "back,X" mistake and left, now trying to get them back in.
3. A Player is just straight out un-cooperative in his actions
4. A player is undergeared/unexperience and refuses to take advice.
5. AFKing
Debatable Reasons People Vote to Kick
1. Trying to get a friend into the group. (this is ok in my book if early, not ok if before main boss...)
2. Lack of Performance. (this is highly debatable, and in my opinion abused)
3. Multiple of same class. (Again debatable, in my opinion most players are there for the chest, not the boss drops, so who cares?)
4. Having issues connecting. (can't really blame people for becoming impatient, as long as it's not instant.)
5. Picking Up items (this is personal preference, but never combat loot...)
Bad Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Get a clanmate/Friend in before boss. (seriously?)
2. Don't like your class. (well we don't like you)
3. Think your GS is too low. (Skill > GS anyday)
4. Because We Can. (people will abuse anything if they can...)
Ok, Now lets discuss some tips on how to lower your chances of getting kicked!
1. Problem Connecting? Dashboard - Select - Quit -and restart Neverwinter, usually fixes the issues for a while.
2. Get a Cleric or Guardian Fighter to 60, yes it's giving in... but close to guarantees you a spot.
3. This is a MMO, for the love of all things D&D, do some research and learn your class.
4. Never, I mean NEVER pick anything up while in combat. I'm talking about boss drops too!!!
5. Don't pick up greens in Dungeons unless everyone else is, yea the gold/RP is convenient, but it can easily become annoying.
6. Don't randomly go AFK without notice....
7. Don't Pull mobs or run ahead of the group if you are anything but the Tank or designated puller.
8. Pay attention, you have sprints/dodges/shifts all for a reason, don't stand in red...
9. Don't blame the healer for your stupidity.
10. Respect your teammates, working in unison and cooperation goes miles in progress.
11. Listen to the experienced players!!! A lot of us do enjoy helping the newer players and we can make your life much easier!
Lastly,
12. Make some friends!!! Power in numbers!
Anyways, Hope this helps some people and can actually promote a more productive discussion on this repeating topic...
Look at the forums and join a guild or find similar-minded people who experience this same problem as you. You can always form pre-mades in LFG too to reduce the potential of you getting kicked. The vote kick feature is crucial though, so it can't and won't ever get removed.
Not sure what class you are playing, but you probably are doing something wrong if you're sitting at 5.2k power at a 11k gear score. Unless you are already soft capped, you may want to throw some of that into ArmPen. Even then, stacking straight power won't get you there as the % increase in damage gain has a diminished ROI. You may not have enough crit% or base severity to optimize your dps output at 5.2k power.
Ok, So this subject is popping up over and over... Before we give the Devs the notion that we really want the kick system removed and regret it later, let's discuss what the big issues with it currently are.
I'm not going to go into huge details, but I'll pretty much lists most of the reasons people vote to kick and also list some things YOU can do to lessen your chances of being kicked.
Good Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Trying to pick up a Cleric or Guardian Fighter
2. A previous member made the "back,X" mistake and left, now trying to get them back in.
3. A Player is just straight out un-cooperative in his actions
4. A player is undergeared/unexperience and refuses to take advice.
5. AFKing
Debatable Reasons People Vote to Kick
1. Trying to get a friend into the group. (this is ok in my book if early, not ok if before main boss...)
2. Lack of Performance. (this is highly debatable, and in my opinion abused)
3. Multiple of same class. (Again debatable, in my opinion most players are there for the chest, not the boss drops, so who cares?)
4. Having issues connecting. (can't really blame people for becoming impatient, as long as it's not instant.)
5. Picking Up items (this is personal preference, but never combat loot...)
Bad Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Get a clanmate/Friend in before boss. (seriously?)
2. Don't like your class. (well we don't like you)
3. Think your GS is too low. (Skill > GS anyday)
4. Because We Can. (people will abuse anything if they can...)
Ok, Now lets discuss some tips on how to lower your chances of getting kicked!
1. Problem Connecting? Dashboard - Select - Quit -and restart Neverwinter, usually fixes the issues for a while.
2. Get a Cleric or Guardian Fighter to 60, yes it's giving in... but close to guarantees you a spot.
3. This is a MMO, for the love of all things D&D, do some research and learn your class.
4. Never, I mean NEVER pick anything up while in combat. I'm talking about boss drops too!!!
5. Don't pick up greens in Dungeons unless everyone else is, yea the gold/RP is convenient, but it can easily become annoying.
6. Don't randomly go AFK without notice....
7. Don't Pull mobs or run ahead of the group if you are anything but the Tank or designated puller.
8. Pay attention, you have sprints/dodges/shifts all for a reason, don't stand in red...
9. Don't blame the healer for your stupidity.
10. Respect your teammates, working in unison and cooperation goes miles in progress.
11. Listen to the experienced players!!! A lot of us do enjoy helping the newer players and we can make your life much easier!
Lastly,
12. Make some friends!!! Power in numbers!
Anyways, Hope this helps some people and can actually promote a more productive discussion on this repeating topic...
I honestly just wish they had queuing out of the game, ESPECIALLY after level 60. It would prevent people from whining.
That would mean most people wouldn't be able to play dungeons or skirmishes. I agree that finding and maintaining a group is probably the best way to experience the multiplayer content, but part of what I love about NW vs. other MMOs is that it feels like a single player game most of the time. I don't need to be part of a large group to play endgame content. No guild BS, no plans or schedules, no leaders or politics, and gameplay that is fun and engaging even if your friends aren't online. Basically, NW has everything I love about MMOs (large worlds, living economies, cities full of people, and running across other adventurers out in the world) without the rest of the MMO baggage that has caused me to quit more MMOs after reaching endgame than most people have even tried.
I don't know about you, but I don't friend many people (and I know most of the people on my friends list IRL). I do this because I don't want to play/deal with most of the people online... at least not for long. Currently, only four people on my friends list play NW, and we all have different play schedules, so we can't even form a guild or get all of us online at once to do dungeons. Never mind that only two of us are level 60. This makes the queue system a must for me, and it was fun... until I hit 60.
Getting rid of queues or telling people to "just join a guild" are unacceptable solutions to the kick system being broken and abused. The problem isn't the people getting kicked, it's the people doing the kicking.
Good Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Trying to pick up a Cleric or Guardian Fighter
2. A previous member made the "back,X" mistake and left, now trying to get them back in.
3. A Player is just straight out un-cooperative in his actions
4. A player is undergeared/unexperience and refuses to take advice.
5. AFKing
... <snip> ...
Bad Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Get a clanmate/Friend in before boss. (seriously?)
2. Don't like your class. (well we don't like you)
3. Think your GS is too low. (Skill > GS anyday)
4. Because We Can. (people will abuse anything if they can...)
Your number one good reason for kicking is the same as your number two bad reason. A player's class shouldn't ever be the reason for kicking . Parties of all types can beat every dungeon. Some parties are better than others on paper, but the right players (i.e. someone who knows their class, made a build that works for them, and is a good teammate) make a bigger difference than the right classes. Give people a chance to show you they can/can't play before you decide the current party isn't working.
The rest of your list makes a lot of assumptions. I follow every piece of advice you list, yet I still get kicked 4 out of 5 times I try to join a dungeon. Other than advice number 12, which isn't feasible for everyone, none of these suggestions solve the problem of people abusing the kick feature. Again, the problem is the kick system is broken or being abused. In most cases, being kicked has nothing to do with performance or teamwork.
Anyway, I appreciate that you took the time to organize all these thoughts, but I still think the fix for the kicking abuse has to come in the form of a patch.
I hope people understand that MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online. I imagine most of the people that post threads like this go at it solo. Nothing wrong with going solo, its how I play as I level.
That being said, this isn't a solo game at endgame. So realize that this game is supposed to be played with other people, some things you literally cannot do alone.
So if you don't want to join a clan, that's fine, but the issue of kicking people will continue to haunt you, and its nobody's fault. The vote to kick someone is a needed. However trolls do and will abuse it.
So I guess I'm saying, join a guild, join friends, or else join a queue, or dungeon you will most likely be kicked in. Its a multiplayer game afterall.
From the 'good' reasons I'd call 1 debatable (GF is nice, but not required for anything, and a Warlock can buff if you're missing a cleric) and 2 (get a previous member back in) is just plain unacceptable - The person who was in your group is at the back of the queue, so you’ll cycle through the whole goram queue before getting them back again.
In the list of debatable reasons, all of those are totally unacceptable for me… particularly 1 (get a friend in), for the same reason.
I’ve noted before, I play with two friends, which means we can swing the vote in any dungeon we play. If you loot during a boss battle or afk/run off from the group, you’ll get two warnings before we bump you.
The only reason we ever boot without warning is if someone tries to boot someone else without good reason. If you try to boot a ranger just because you don’t like their class, or if you try to boot someone who’s disconnected while restarting to mitigate lag… you’ll get your butt bounced faster than you can blink.
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Your number one good reason for kicking is the same as your number two bad reason. A player's class shouldn't be the reason for kicking. Parties of all types can beat every dungeon. Some parties are better than others on paper, but the right players (i.e. someone who knows their class, made a build that works for them, and is a good teammate) make a bigger difference than the right classes. Give people a chance to show you they can/can't play before you decide the current party isn't working.
I specified Clerics and GF in the #1 for a reason.
Kicking people for being a Warlock, Hunter Ranger, GWF is just idiotic.
"Parties of all types can beat every dungeon" is just straight out wrong. On PC where people have 18k+ GS, yes our T1 and T2 dungeons are a cake walk, but in the current situation some epic dungeons are either impossible or close to it without a Cleric when running a group of randoms.
Show me a group with atleast 3 PUG players and No cleric complete Dread Vault or CN with less than 5 wipes and I'll take back this statement.
From the 'good' reasons I'd call 1 debatable (GF is nice, but not required for anything, and a Warlock can buff if you're missing a cleric) and 2 (get a previous member back in) is just plain unacceptable - The person who was in your group is at the back of the queue, so you’ll cycle through the whole goram queue before getting them back again.
In the list of debatable reasons, all of those are totally unacceptable for me… particularly 1 (get a friend in), for the same reason.
I’ve noted before, I play with two friends, which means we can swing the vote in any dungeon we play. If you loot during a boss battle or afk/run off from the group, you’ll get two warnings before we bump you.
The only reason we ever boot without warning is if someone tries to boot someone else without good reason. If you try to boot a ranger just because you don’t like their class, or if you try to boot someone who’s disconnected while restarting to mitigate lag… you’ll get your butt bounced faster than you can blink.
The Queue system does put a slight priority on either Friends or Guild mates, haven't figured out which yet. It's similar to how it tries to put you in the same instance as friends/guild mates. It doesn't take that long to get them back.
I made this list as an opinion, and I am fine with other opinions, but bugs, glitches, issues can happen, and if a friend of mine gets kicked or misses the queue I will attempt to get them back in. Personally I try to do this ASAP to try and minimize the time of the random player from being wasted. That's why I put is as debatable, if a random is doing well, I personally will not try to kick them just because a friend came online, but if my friend gets kicked I will try to get them back.
I hate to be the one to call this out, but it will only get worse from here--just like it did in PC.
Soon, you will have geared people who expect to do speed runs and will kick you regardless of your gearscore or if you are a GF or DC. Elitism and preference exist in all games. This does not mean the vote to kick feature is broken or needs an alteration.
As a middle ground though, consider this:
-They add in a cooldown/limit to the number times a party can kick. Now, you wait x number of minutes (~5) until you are able to kick someone again. Or, you can only kick up to 5 times and pray you get someone who is good/the class you need/want.
-Someone has accidentally removed him/herself from the group (someone just picked up the 100th green item and the player tried to quickly pass on the item and selected 'X' to leave group) or you want to bring in a friend or guildie into the run but you cannot simply invite them to group--that player has to queue and hope to get into the intended group. You have to keep kicking until that person gets into your group.
-You get a debuff preventing from you to requeue (like you currently do for leaving a PvP match. Why, by the way, do you only get this from leaving a PvP match, yet it applies to both PvP and PvE queues?) if you decide to leave a group. I find myself leaving groups all the time trying to get into a group to help guildies finish a run they struggled to complete with pugs (what I described above).
Well, I can't show you because I didn't record it, but I beat Dread Vault with a full group of PUGs consisting of two TRs, one GWF, one GF, and a CW. We only wiped once because people weren't watching the chat window while one player was explaining what to do.
Also, who cares if you wipe five times if you clear it the sixth time? The fact you can clear it at all just proves any team can work if everyone works together. Clerics make things easier (if the cleric is any good), but they aren't a guaranteed win. Well-built characters and players who know how/when to use healing potions, when to pull back and handle adds, and watch the life bars of other players to know when people need reviving can (and do) get the job done.
I don't know about Castle Never because I've never tried it, but I'm at almost 11k GS now, so I'll let you know...
its just the lack of intelligent queue systems, i am sure given time it would be improved but it should be able to say 3 dps in this group search for a tank and healer, i've never seen two clerics or two guardians in the same dungeon but you get numerous duplicate dps classes.
I think it should also let you specify that you wish to start a new run or join an in progress one and then search based on that filter too, aswell as seeking key classes as a base of the group, because at the mo 95% of my invites are people at campfires after obviously having fails and rage quits which then starts the whole chain off.
I do agree tho you need the vote kick, you have to have a way to remove people for one reason or a next but as it is, yeah its being heavily abused to make up for the lack of intelligent queuing
The Queue system does put a slight priority on either Friends or Guild mates, haven't figured out which yet. It's similar to how it tries to put you in the same instance as friends/guild mates. It doesn't take that long to get them back.
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I have not seen any proof of this. I spent about 20 minutes trying to get my DC into a guildie's CN run to help him finish it because the pug DC was bad and was kicked. That player was also on my friend's list.
I specified Clerics and GF in the #1 for a reason.
Kicking people for being a Warlock, Hunter Ranger, GWF is just idiotic.
"Parties of all types can beat every dungeon" is just straight out wrong. On PC where people have 18k+ GS, yes our T1 and T2 dungeons are a cake walk, but in the current situation some epic dungeons are either impossible or close to it without a Cleric when running a group of randoms.
Show me a group with atleast 3 PUG players and No cleric complete Dread Vault or CN with less than 5 wipes and I'll take back this statement.
Also, you probably will not see any groups clearing DV or CN without a DC...ever. Unless the SW is healing or someone is solo'ing it (which is a lot easier than having a 5-man pug do it), you will need a DC. DV and CN are the hardest content in the game outside of campaign PvE. That would be like saying in any other MMORPG, "hey, go clear an end-game raid without any heals."
The point being, just like any other MMORPG, if you roll a dp, you can expect to have long queues because you are a dime-a-dozen. You are going to have short queues in Neverwinter, but you still have to remember that you are a dime-a-dozen.
I have not seen any proof of this. I spent about 20 minutes trying to get my DC into a guildie's CN run to help him finish it because the pug DC was bad and was kicked. That player was also on my friend's list.
It's funky and unreliable but I've done it a few times. I've even had a few direct invites work.
Well, I can't show you because I didn't record it, but I beat Dread Vault with a full group of PUGs consisting of two TRs, one GWF, one GF, and a CW. We only wiped once because people weren't watching the chat window while one player was explaining what to do.
Also, who cares if you wipe five times if you clear it the sixth time? The fact you can clear it at all just proves any team can work if everyone works together. Clerics make things easier (if the cleric is any good), but they aren't a guaranteed win. Well-built characters and players who know how/when to use healing potions, when to pull back and handle adds, and watch the life bars of other players to know when people need reviving can (and do) get the job done.
I don't know about Castle Never because I've never tried it, but I'm at almost 11k GS now, so I'll let you know...
Ok let me correct myself. If you feel the need to spend tremendous amounts of time trying to accomplish the near impossible, then maybe you can pull it off, and I mean without any work-arounds or exploits (solo TRs). Why go through all that time and effort when the Cleric class is there for a reason and meant to make the encounters that much easier? I don't see a point in fighting through something and struggling when I can do 2 or 3 runs in the same time period by just looking for a specific class.
I want to point out that I'm not an ***hole, I feel some of my posts are coming across that way, but I honestly rarily vote yes to kicking unless it is very warranted. Just wanted to clear that up.
I hate to be the one to call this out, but it will only get worse from here--just like it did in PC.
Soon, you will have geared people who expect to do speed runs and will kick you regardless of your gearscore or if you are a GF or DC. Elitism and preference exist in all games. This does not mean the vote to kick feature is broken or needs an alteration.
Ugh, that sounds horrible. It's also discouraging to hear that the kick feature is broken and abused on PC as well. That doesn't give me much hope they'll address it on XB1. As a side note, I've never understood the speed run thing. Why do the dungeon if you're not going to do it all? That's like the people who skip cut scenes in games and miss the whole story, or even worse, the people who rush right into competitive multiplayer without ever playing the core single player game. Meh, whatever makes people happy I guess.
-They add in a cooldown/limit to the number times a party can kick. Now, you wait x number of minutes (~5) until you are able to kick someone again. Or, you can only kick up to 5 times and pray you get someone who is good/the class you need/want.
-Someone has accidentally removed him/herself from the group (someone just picked up the 100th green item and the player tried to quickly pass on the item and selected 'X' to leave group) or you want to bring in a friend or guildie into the run but you cannot simply invite them to group--that player has to queue and hope to get into the intended group. You have to keep kicking until that person gets into your group.
-You get a debuff preventing from you to requeue (like you currently do for leaving a PvP match. Why, by the way, do you only get this from leaving a PvP match, yet it applies to both PvP and PvE queues?) if you decide to leave a group. I find myself leaving groups all the time trying to get into a group to help guildies finish a run they struggled to complete with pugs (what I described above).
Good ideas. I like the first one the best, but I don't think it's enough. A cool down timer wouldn't stop the abuse, just delay it.
I think a better fix would be only allowing someone to vote or initiate a vote to kick twice per session. So a troll or group of trolls could kick a few times, but eventually they'd run out of votes for that session and have to take what comes or quit and queue up again themselves. An even better idea would be to limit it to ten votes per day. That would cause people to save their votes for the actual problem players.
I don't see a point in fighting through something and struggling when I can do 2 or 3 runs in the same time period by just looking for a specific class.
I want to point out that I'm not an ***hole, I feel some of my posts are coming across that way, but I honestly rarily vote yes to kicking unless it is very warranted. Just wanted to clear that up.
One run in an hour or so of play vs. two runs... what's the difference? You're still playing and (hopefully) having a good time. I mean, I get that repeated fails because the group simply won't work together is frustrating, but I don't mind a couple wipes if I'm having fun.
Also, your posts didn't come across that way to me. It's just conversation.
I think their vote to kick system is bad. I want a vote to kick, but the system rules are wrong. Kicks should take (party size - 1) yes votes and when a leader kicks, still have the vote instead of instant kick.
Most dungeon runs you burn boss then adds. It takes too long to kill most ads and it gets to be a hassle and then the boss stays alive for way too long. Plus when you kill a mob more come.
Frankly, that's bollocks and completely unfair on players who have been waiting 30-60 minutes in a queue to play.
It's that kind of bad behavior and poor sportsmanship that make me want the devs to put in some sort of control in to lmit those who can't seem to manage without their personal whims being adhered to.
And, as I said previously, attempting to boot someone for such a childish reason is the one way to make sure our group tosses you out.
You need to fix something if you're waiting that long for a que. I get almost instantly qued into any dungeon all times day and night and I'm a dps lol.
Instead of Queue they should have LFG windows. You filter what you are looking for as a group leader. Send a message to the player unless they already have what they are looking for in the window. Send an invite to start a group up to the players that are in LFG. I used to use this feature in EQ when it came out. Worked very good. Takes a little more organization then the current system, but the current system is no good.
Not a bad idea, but it'd really work against characters just at Lv60 with a low GS.
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You need to fix something if you're waiting that long for a que. I get almost instantly qued into any dungeon all times day and night and I'm a dps lol.
I don't believe that in the least. My cleric will queue instantly, but I've watched my girlfriend's rogue queue for 30 minutes and her ranger wait for 50 (only to be kicked moments after joining). To be clear - the two Xbox Ones are side-by-side over the same network connection, so there are absolutely no environmental factors at play.
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It's abused for sure. I got kicked at least 6 times today. Three times right as I joined the group. I'm guessing there were looking for a different class or the more likely reason, someone to carry them. The other 3 times were pretty much by players who had zero clue on how to comprehend MMORPG boss mechanics. Since I was the last to fall every time, knew how to pick up adds & reduce aggro on both the healer & the tank & so on. Maybe they were angry because they died so quickly & had to wait until myself & usually one other player finally got killed. Pretty much console gamers that are use to simplified boss battles like those found in Borderlands. Luckily, I have been meeting non console MMO players that are playing the game on Xbox One so things are going a lot better now. You just have to find a dedicated crew of players to run so the kicking abuse is no longer a problem. Among other things.
The the amount of kicking going on is insane. I joined a group that was on the final boss of Cragmire Crypts. This was about an hour ago. As soon as I loaded into the map, the party leader posted a message in the group that stated " Try not to kick people with 10K Gear Score. Being a long time MMORPG player, my immediate instinct was to inspect this guy since I knew I was about to be kicked. My GS at the time was 9,300+. His was 8,100+. So pretty much he was looking for a player to hopefully carry him in a lowbie epic dungeon. I was also quick enough to utilize the Xbox Ones newest feature & took a SS before the kick vote went through. Players like that are the issue with the vote system. Luckily I do run with other long time PC MMORPG players that happen to be playing the game on the Xbox One so I run into the issue only when I am using the LFG feature.
This is all very unfortunate. I'm not 60 yet but I'm sort of glad I rolled a Cleric from what I'm hearing. I have played other PC MMOs before and I recognise the behaviour. Certain classes get booted from parties after queuing for ages, because of a number of things; a specific class is needed, a particular class has a bad reputation for playing badly, a particular class is 'broken', the player is undergeared etc.
What is interesting here is that this isn't a new *game*. The class mechanics etc. have been running on PC for a long time. Did this happen when it came out on PC? Did it get better after a while? Does it still happen?
How much of this a function of the fact that a) we don't have established guilds yet and b) communication is harder? So players aren't used to the tactics for dungeons and its more difficult to explain them in game. In other MMOs you'd still get PUGs, but most of the players would be guilded, so they've probably done guild runs before and know tactics etc.
Not that its any consolation for the people getting kicked, but I suspect we just need patience and things will get better. Although I'm not sure how they can improve the communication.
Comments
Seriously. This is not the first thread on this subject, nor the last. Why don't you guys stop complaining about being kicked, n queuing for hours and just join an active guild. Joining a guild helps give you more game immersion. Gives you more people to play with. Experienced players to learn from and new players to teach.
My thoughts on public queues for harder dungeons, is if you do it(on console) especially with something other then a GF or Cleric, you obviously don't want to finish it. between trolls, server issues, and new level 60s trying to play harder dungeons, the odds are against you. Even if no trolls kick you, with public matches you may never stand a chance against the boss.
So seriously, why not go join a clan, get some friends? Why play an mmo without others to play with that you know?
I'm not going to go into huge details, but I'll pretty much lists most of the reasons people vote to kick and also list some things YOU can do to lessen your chances of being kicked.
Good Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Trying to pick up a Cleric or Guardian Fighter
2. A previous member made the "back,X" mistake and left, now trying to get them back in.
3. A Player is just straight out un-cooperative in his actions
4. A player is undergeared/unexperience and refuses to take advice.
5. AFKing
Debatable Reasons People Vote to Kick
1. Trying to get a friend into the group. (this is ok in my book if early, not ok if before main boss...)
2. Lack of Performance. (this is highly debatable, and in my opinion abused)
3. Multiple of same class. (Again debatable, in my opinion most players are there for the chest, not the boss drops, so who cares?)
4. Having issues connecting. (can't really blame people for becoming impatient, as long as it's not instant.)
5. Picking Up items (this is personal preference, but never combat loot...)
Bad Reasons People Choose to Vote to Kick
1. Get a clanmate/Friend in before boss. (seriously?)
2. Don't like your class. (well we don't like you)
3. Think your GS is too low. (Skill > GS anyday)
4. Because We Can. (people will abuse anything if they can...)
Ok, Now lets discuss some tips on how to lower your chances of getting kicked!
1. Problem Connecting? Dashboard - Select - Quit -and restart Neverwinter, usually fixes the issues for a while.
2. Get a Cleric or Guardian Fighter to 60, yes it's giving in... but close to guarantees you a spot.
3. This is a MMO, for the love of all things D&D, do some research and learn your class.
4. Never, I mean NEVER pick anything up while in combat. I'm talking about boss drops too!!!
5. Don't pick up greens in Dungeons unless everyone else is, yea the gold/RP is convenient, but it can easily become annoying.
6. Don't randomly go AFK without notice....
7. Don't Pull mobs or run ahead of the group if you are anything but the Tank or designated puller.
8. Pay attention, you have sprints/dodges/shifts all for a reason, don't stand in red...
9. Don't blame the healer for your stupidity.
10. Respect your teammates, working in unison and cooperation goes miles in progress.
11. Listen to the experienced players!!! A lot of us do enjoy helping the newer players and we can make your life much easier!
Lastly,
12. Make some friends!!! Power in numbers!
Anyways, Hope this helps some people and can actually promote a more productive discussion on this repeating topic...
Not sure what class you are playing, but you probably are doing something wrong if you're sitting at 5.2k power at a 11k gear score. Unless you are already soft capped, you may want to throw some of that into ArmPen. Even then, stacking straight power won't get you there as the % increase in damage gain has a diminished ROI. You may not have enough crit% or base severity to optimize your dps output at 5.2k power.
This. All of this. Thank you. Read and do #12.
I don't know about you, but I don't friend many people (and I know most of the people on my friends list IRL). I do this because I don't want to play/deal with most of the people online... at least not for long. Currently, only four people on my friends list play NW, and we all have different play schedules, so we can't even form a guild or get all of us online at once to do dungeons. Never mind that only two of us are level 60. This makes the queue system a must for me, and it was fun... until I hit 60.
Getting rid of queues or telling people to "just join a guild" are unacceptable solutions to the kick system being broken and abused. The problem isn't the people getting kicked, it's the people doing the kicking.
Your number one good reason for kicking is the same as your number two bad reason. A player's class shouldn't ever be the reason for kicking . Parties of all types can beat every dungeon. Some parties are better than others on paper, but the right players (i.e. someone who knows their class, made a build that works for them, and is a good teammate) make a bigger difference than the right classes. Give people a chance to show you they can/can't play before you decide the current party isn't working.
The rest of your list makes a lot of assumptions. I follow every piece of advice you list, yet I still get kicked 4 out of 5 times I try to join a dungeon. Other than advice number 12, which isn't feasible for everyone, none of these suggestions solve the problem of people abusing the kick feature. Again, the problem is the kick system is broken or being abused. In most cases, being kicked has nothing to do with performance or teamwork.
Anyway, I appreciate that you took the time to organize all these thoughts, but I still think the fix for the kicking abuse has to come in the form of a patch.
That being said, this isn't a solo game at endgame. So realize that this game is supposed to be played with other people, some things you literally cannot do alone.
So if you don't want to join a clan, that's fine, but the issue of kicking people will continue to haunt you, and its nobody's fault. The vote to kick someone is a needed. However trolls do and will abuse it.
So I guess I'm saying, join a guild, join friends, or else join a queue, or dungeon you will most likely be kicked in. Its a multiplayer game afterall.
In the list of debatable reasons, all of those are totally unacceptable for me… particularly 1 (get a friend in), for the same reason.
I’ve noted before, I play with two friends, which means we can swing the vote in any dungeon we play. If you loot during a boss battle or afk/run off from the group, you’ll get two warnings before we bump you.
The only reason we ever boot without warning is if someone tries to boot someone else without good reason. If you try to boot a ranger just because you don’t like their class, or if you try to boot someone who’s disconnected while restarting to mitigate lag… you’ll get your butt bounced faster than you can blink.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
I specified Clerics and GF in the #1 for a reason.
Kicking people for being a Warlock, Hunter Ranger, GWF is just idiotic.
"Parties of all types can beat every dungeon" is just straight out wrong. On PC where people have 18k+ GS, yes our T1 and T2 dungeons are a cake walk, but in the current situation some epic dungeons are either impossible or close to it without a Cleric when running a group of randoms.
Show me a group with atleast 3 PUG players and No cleric complete Dread Vault or CN with less than 5 wipes and I'll take back this statement.
The Queue system does put a slight priority on either Friends or Guild mates, haven't figured out which yet. It's similar to how it tries to put you in the same instance as friends/guild mates. It doesn't take that long to get them back.
I made this list as an opinion, and I am fine with other opinions, but bugs, glitches, issues can happen, and if a friend of mine gets kicked or misses the queue I will attempt to get them back in. Personally I try to do this ASAP to try and minimize the time of the random player from being wasted. That's why I put is as debatable, if a random is doing well, I personally will not try to kick them just because a friend came online, but if my friend gets kicked I will try to get them back.
Soon, you will have geared people who expect to do speed runs and will kick you regardless of your gearscore or if you are a GF or DC. Elitism and preference exist in all games. This does not mean the vote to kick feature is broken or needs an alteration.
As a middle ground though, consider this:
-They add in a cooldown/limit to the number times a party can kick. Now, you wait x number of minutes (~5) until you are able to kick someone again. Or, you can only kick up to 5 times and pray you get someone who is good/the class you need/want.
-Someone has accidentally removed him/herself from the group (someone just picked up the 100th green item and the player tried to quickly pass on the item and selected 'X' to leave group) or you want to bring in a friend or guildie into the run but you cannot simply invite them to group--that player has to queue and hope to get into the intended group. You have to keep kicking until that person gets into your group.
-You get a debuff preventing from you to requeue (like you currently do for leaving a PvP match. Why, by the way, do you only get this from leaving a PvP match, yet it applies to both PvP and PvE queues?) if you decide to leave a group. I find myself leaving groups all the time trying to get into a group to help guildies finish a run they struggled to complete with pugs (what I described above).
Also, who cares if you wipe five times if you clear it the sixth time? The fact you can clear it at all just proves any team can work if everyone works together. Clerics make things easier (if the cleric is any good), but they aren't a guaranteed win. Well-built characters and players who know how/when to use healing potions, when to pull back and handle adds, and watch the life bars of other players to know when people need reviving can (and do) get the job done.
I don't know about Castle Never because I've never tried it, but I'm at almost 11k GS now, so I'll let you know...
I think it should also let you specify that you wish to start a new run or join an in progress one and then search based on that filter too, aswell as seeking key classes as a base of the group, because at the mo 95% of my invites are people at campfires after obviously having fails and rage quits which then starts the whole chain off.
I do agree tho you need the vote kick, you have to have a way to remove people for one reason or a next but as it is, yeah its being heavily abused to make up for the lack of intelligent queuing
I have not seen any proof of this. I spent about 20 minutes trying to get my DC into a guildie's CN run to help him finish it because the pug DC was bad and was kicked. That player was also on my friend's list.
Also, you probably will not see any groups clearing DV or CN without a DC...ever. Unless the SW is healing or someone is solo'ing it (which is a lot easier than having a 5-man pug do it), you will need a DC. DV and CN are the hardest content in the game outside of campaign PvE. That would be like saying in any other MMORPG, "hey, go clear an end-game raid without any heals."
The point being, just like any other MMORPG, if you roll a dp, you can expect to have long queues because you are a dime-a-dozen. You are going to have short queues in Neverwinter, but you still have to remember that you are a dime-a-dozen.
It's funky and unreliable but I've done it a few times. I've even had a few direct invites work.
Man, if those direct invites were more reliable. I think this would be a great improvement to the queue system.
Ok let me correct myself. If you feel the need to spend tremendous amounts of time trying to accomplish the near impossible, then maybe you can pull it off, and I mean without any work-arounds or exploits (solo TRs). Why go through all that time and effort when the Cleric class is there for a reason and meant to make the encounters that much easier? I don't see a point in fighting through something and struggling when I can do 2 or 3 runs in the same time period by just looking for a specific class.
I want to point out that I'm not an ***hole, I feel some of my posts are coming across that way, but I honestly rarily vote yes to kicking unless it is very warranted. Just wanted to clear that up.
Good ideas. I like the first one the best, but I don't think it's enough. A cool down timer wouldn't stop the abuse, just delay it.
I think a better fix would be only allowing someone to vote or initiate a vote to kick twice per session. So a troll or group of trolls could kick a few times, but eventually they'd run out of votes for that session and have to take what comes or quit and queue up again themselves. An even better idea would be to limit it to ten votes per day. That would cause people to save their votes for the actual problem players.
Also, your posts didn't come across that way to me. It's just conversation.
You need to fix something if you're waiting that long for a que. I get almost instantly qued into any dungeon all times day and night and I'm a dps lol.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
I don't believe that in the least. My cleric will queue instantly, but I've watched my girlfriend's rogue queue for 30 minutes and her ranger wait for 50 (only to be kicked moments after joining). To be clear - the two Xbox Ones are side-by-side over the same network connection, so there are absolutely no environmental factors at play.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/LatinLegacyNY/Games/NW1.jpg~original
What is interesting here is that this isn't a new *game*. The class mechanics etc. have been running on PC for a long time. Did this happen when it came out on PC? Did it get better after a while? Does it still happen?
How much of this a function of the fact that a) we don't have established guilds yet and b) communication is harder? So players aren't used to the tactics for dungeons and its more difficult to explain them in game. In other MMOs you'd still get PUGs, but most of the players would be guilded, so they've probably done guild runs before and know tactics etc.
Not that its any consolation for the people getting kicked, but I suspect we just need patience and things will get better. Although I'm not sure how they can improve the communication.