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Feedbak: Level 70 Dungeons - Some are not possible

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  • mjytreszmjytresz Member Posts: 500 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    Obviously they have SOMEONE testing these things

    I'd believe this if I hadn't played this game for years.
    Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?

    Go Cryptic!
    PS - I quit.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rinat114 wrote: »
    Them being able to beat the dungeon is NOT fine. Being BIS or nearly BIS doesn't mean everyone are, doesn't take much to shake the shell off and look at new players or those who aren't geared to death like some of us are. If it's impossible to BIS teams what will it be like to under geared people?

    to say the truth bis gear in module 6 is 3k + i have seen player with 3k+. in that pt we was max 2400.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    mjytresz wrote: »
    I'd believe this if I hadn't played this game for years.

    My join date is the same as yours, and this wasnt my first account. That said I know they have players testing SOME things, not all, but they are just not very good at all.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    I went back and read some earlier patch notes, and this is the problem:



    But now we're talking about THREE levels above you, which is where the math falls off the rails.

    Yeah so something is weird with the math here. They will obviously figure it out. Either they will test it and not be able to complete it, or it will go live and noone will be able to do dungeons and they will patch it within a few weeks.

    For these reasons and many bugs are expected I will take my time leveling to 70 as well as take some time to level up a paladin to atleast 60 for the artifact.
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    I went back and read some earlier patch notes, and this is the problem:
    Enemies more than 2 levels above you will result in a sharp increase in difficulty. (Down from 5 Levels).

    But now we're talking about THREE levels above you, which is where the math falls off the rails.
    Yeah so something is weird with the math here. They will obviously figure it out. Either they will test it and not be able to complete it, or it will go live and noone will be able to do dungeons and they will patch it within a few weeks.[...]

    It's been announced somewhere on dev chat or patch notes pretty early: Level difference should affect you more severely, more than 2 levels above you => your damage reduced to 10% or 25% - simply forgot which one exactly...

    ...so this seems to be WAI.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ayroux wrote: »
    Obviously they have SOMEONE testing these things and maybe the first pass it was working as intended but with more updates something was screwed up.

    yes, our gwf beta tester ended the dungeon alone.
    220px-Wizard1989.jpg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AacoxHFYvZw
    (of course he use the power gloves to do that)
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Sadly as i see the delay didn't help at all. Time for another delay or this game won't work at all. Of course i know it won't be delayed, too much at stake PR wise, we will have to eat it out as it is and wait for big patches to come.

    BTW now Tiamat is bugged to hell too, 2 times in a row tonight no heads.

    Where is this going to lead?!:confused:
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    [...]
    Where is this going to lead?!:confused:
    Oh, I'll probably level all chars to 70 including a yet-to-be-rolled Pala, push professions to 25, craft stuff, craft RP, upgrade my shiney new weapon and off-hand, generate tons of AD, do some wee bit of PvP maybe, and spend way more time in The Secret World until Module 7 hits and brings back playability...

    ...hopefully sooner rather than later. Game's at the core too good to go out like that.
  • umcjdkingumcjdking Member Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    I was able to put together a group of 5 people to try out some dungeons on the preview server. We attempted the epic Lair of Lostmauth and Epic Cragmire Crypt. My computer crashed after fighting the twin Scorpions in eLoL so I don't have ACT logs for everything before that. But I have enough logs to get the point across.

    Our party was a GF, DC, GWF, and 2 CW's (one Renegade, one Oppressor). I've run dungeons with these players before and we basically just run through dungeons with ease. There's no challenge whatsoever. On the preview server all of us have the new weapons at either Epic or Legendary, all have over 70k HP (GF, GWF, and DC had well over 100k), all had Rank 10 or better enchantments, all know how to play.

    Epic Lair of Lostmauth

    This dungeon wasn't too bad. Our tank was able to do their job and things went fairly smoothly. That is, until the Twinfire Scorpions. Their base damage is absurd. In between deaths, which were kinda frequent, we would look at the battle logs to see what killed us. There were hits of 600k, 900k, even 1.4 million. Our tank, through no fault of theirs, simply could not tank these guys. Their damage is way, way too high. Our GWF didn't fare any better since he had to stand next to them to attack. The only solution was to not get hit. Ever. The DC and 2 CW's were able to kite them around the room and eventually wear them down.

    Lostmauth was not fun. Here is a pic of his outgoing damage:

    k0rkn6.jpg

    As you can see, he's basically just a 1-shot machine. He can hit for over 2 million damage and most of his attacks are over 200k. Lostmauth can roar, then while you can't move you get hit by a fireball which can knock you into his breath attack...and you're dead. Or if you're a GWF and you take one bite...you're dead. The only real way to beat him, again, is just to not get hit. Our group was able to beat him but it wasn't pretty.

    If this goes live as is 90% or more of all attempts at this dungeon will fail. Although I'm not sure all that many will even try it. There was nothing we received from the run that was worth anything--some Elemental seals and some bound blue level 70 gear that we could salvage for a few thousand RAD. It wasn't worth the trip. It will never be worth the trip if it goes live as is.

    Something else that was rather odd started happening here as well. Our GWF turned into a Destroyer of Worlds and starting dealing crazy damage:

    51bqzc.jpg

    That's a Restoring Strike with base damage of 959k. Something looks to not be working as intended there. Not sure what's causing it, though.

    Epic Cragmire Crypts

    Then things got really ugly. Epic Cragmire is a nightmare. I attempted this dungeon a few weeks ago and my feedback then was that the enemies hit way too hard: random adds were hitting for 80k and Traven Blackdagger was hitting for over 250k. Well, now it's worse.

    A lot worse.

    The first group of enemies in the dungeon wiped us out four times. The range enemies firing arrows just kept 1-shotting people before we could even get to them. We slowly and methodically made our way to the end of the dungeon while dying frequently. The first mini-boss dropped a whole 2 Seals of the Protector. The second mini-boss (a party of adventurers) dropped nothing.

    Then we got to Traven Blackdagger.

    Traven Blackdagger has attacks with a base damage up to 4.7 million. His backstab hits for over 3 million. Even his basic attacks like "kick" hit for over 500k. Even if you have a super-amazing tank who can somehow take that kind of abuse your party is still totally screwed. Every 30 seconds or so a group of Snipers and Cutthroats will spawn all over the room. They'll each target a random member of your party and do this:

    2469kjk.jpg

    They're 1-hit kill machines and there is no possible way for a tank to draw all of their fire the moment they spawn.

    And it gets worse, still.

    Traven Blackdagger has an attack called "Firebomb" where he sets a large part of the ground on fire. This fire does not go away. So as the fight progresses eventually the entire floor gets set on fire (think Epic Shores of Tuern fire spots). There is a solution to this, but unfortunately the cure is worse than the disease. There is a cask at the back of the room that extinguishes the flames. However, when you use the cask it "enrages" Traven and he executes the equivalent of a TR's Bloodbath attack. He teleports around the room randomly slashing party members over three seconds. The damage is unblockable and undodgeable. He does up to 10 slashes and the damage ranges from 80k to 700k. It's an instant annihilation of your party.

    Here's Travern's outgoing damage from one of our attempts at him:

    zspv8o.jpg

    Since the patch on Friday this dungeon is not possible. It cannot be done.

    This is not a "learn to play" issue. This is not a "you just need better gear" issue. This is not a "you just need a better tank" issue. This is not a "your healer wasn't doing their job" issue. This was not a "you just need more DPS" issue.

    This is not possible.

    This is the funniest thing I have ever read on these forums.
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Oh, I'll probably level all chars to 70 including a yet-to-be-rolled Pala, push professions to 25, craft stuff, craft RP, upgrade my shiney new weapon and off-hand, generate tons of AD, do some wee bit of PvP maybe, and spend way more time in The Secret World until Module 7 hits and brings back playability...

    ...hopefully sooner rather than later. Game's at the core too good to go out like that.

    Yes game is a raw gem, which isn't used with proper care now.

    If this Mod goes live in this way, i will sit it out too, lol time to practice more on my guitar.

    I wish to see a new and unique Mod, but since Mod 3 didn't get anything worth to mention, just recycled stuff and my second favorite part in the game, PVP is also unplayable now, simply too many errors in the coding.
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    to say the truth bis gear in module 6 is 3k + i have seen player with 3k+. in that pt we was max 2400.

    There is (yet another) bug on preview where if you inspect other players you see YOUR gear score where theirs should be. My GS is around 3k on preview.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Holy HAMSTER was he using feytouched? that'd make sense then. lol
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rinat114 wrote: »
    Them being able to beat the dungeon is NOT fine. Being BIS or nearly BIS doesn't mean everyone are, doesn't take much to shake the shell off and look at new players or those who aren't geared to death like some of us are. If it's impossible to BIS teams what will it be like to under geared people?

    This dungeon called epic for some reason
    if you are not near bis equip then just enter normal dungeon, it's called normal because it's mean for casual player
    Premade will figure it out how to clear the new dungeon just enjoy the process the making of tactic
    we din't explore all potency of party buff yet
    for example not many people know that HR got 24% temp hp buff for all party, you can root melee mobs and for range mobs is offtank responsible like GWF or Paladin
    if the new content is easy how longer we will run the dungeon until we got bored? 1 weeks? 2 weeks?
    we will figure it out there is the part of fun in the game
  • scathiasscathias Member Posts: 1,174 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    piejal wrote: »
    This dungeon called epic for some reason
    if you are not near bis equip then just enter normal dungeon, it's called normal because it's mean for casual player
    Premade will figure it out how to clear the new dungeon just enjoy the process the making of tactic
    we din't explore all potency of party buff yet
    for example not many people know that HR got 24% temp hp buff for all party, you can root melee mobs and for range mobs is offtank responsible like GWF or Paladin
    if the new content is easy how longer we will run the dungeon until we got bored? 1 weeks? 2 weeks?
    we will figure it out there is the part of fun in the game

    Please do not give feedback on how someone should do these dungeons until you have actually run them on preview can provide us with useful information, rather then throwing out random ideas that have NOT been tested in the environment we are talking about.

    And just so you know, the "normal" dungeons are now 3 man only and are level scaled so (for example) that ToS is lv 55 only. there is no challenge there and a party of 12k GS pugs could clear it. there is no comparison to make between the normal dungeons (no item level required) and the item level 2000 dungeons being discussed here
    Guild - The Imaginary Friends
    We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    scathias wrote: »
    Please do not give feedback on how someone should do these dungeons until you have actually run them on preview can provide us with useful information, rather then throwing out random ideas that have NOT been tested in the environment we are talking about.

    And just so you know, the "normal" dungeons are now 3 man only and are level scaled so (for example) that ToS is lv 55 only. there is no challenge there and a party of 12k GS pugs could clear it. there is no comparison to make between the normal dungeons (no item level required) and the item level 2000 dungeons being discussed here

    i just wanna say we will figure it out
    need to change dungeon gameplay from all about paingiver to how to contribute to the survive of the party
    What on my mind now is to take 2 right build HR in a party with a good coordination party can get dodge buff every 3s
    There are many wep or armor enchament we can try for example use feytouch to reduce boss damage
    i don't say this will 100% work it may work or maybe not at all
    just let it live first so we can disscuss and share about how to clear the dungeon if in 2-3 weeks no party able to clear it then it's need a tone down
    Wait until it's officialy live on mod 6
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    It's been announced somewhere on dev chat or patch notes pretty early: Level difference should affect you more severely, more than 2 levels above you => your damage reduced to 10% or 25% - simply forgot which one exactly...

    ...so this seems to be WAI.

    No one was talking about the damage being reduced...they're talking about how do you survive regular hits (not red splats, not telegraphs) that are in excess of 1 million damage.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • iamannoyingdeviliamannoyingdevil Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    piejal wrote: »
    i just wanna say we will figure it out

    no , no you won't , heres an example another forum user pointed out from abadons act log , the enemy cleric in the competing adventurer party can do a 800k+ sunburst you know something is broken, that is an instant attack doing close to 1 million points of damage.
    piejal wrote: »
    just let it live first so we can disscuss and share about how to clear the dungeon if in 2-3 weeks no party able to clear it then it's need a tone down
    Wait until it's officialy live on mod 6

    you seem to be missing the point of the test server , why let it go live so people can just point out exactly the same problems
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    One problem with developer...when they buff something..they tend to overbuff them

    u know i rather play something else than spending hours trying to pass by the 1st room of a dungeon. it just wreck the game experience. i play the game to get away from real life frustration not to jump into another frustration.
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    piejal wrote: »
    This dungeon called epic for some reason
    if you are not near bis equip then just enter normal dungeon, it's called normal because it's mean for casual player
    Premade will figure it out how to clear the new dungeon just enjoy the process the making of tactic
    we din't explore all potency of party buff yet
    for example not many people know that HR got 24% temp hp buff for all party, you can root melee mobs and for range mobs is offtank responsible like GWF or Paladin
    if the new content is easy how longer we will run the dungeon until we got bored? 1 weeks? 2 weeks?
    we will figure it out there is the part of fun in the game

    Please explain your strategy to survive the Drunken Rage attack of Traven Blackdagger.

    It is 10 slashes on random party members that range from 80,000 to 700,000 damage. They are undodgeable and unblockable. Traven is control immune. Your move. How do you survive?

    You're going to need a hell of a lot more than trapper roots and 25% temporary hit points.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    Please explain your strategy to survive the Drunken Rage attack of Traven Blackdagger.

    It is 10 slashes on random party members that range from 80,000 to 700,000 damage. They are undodgeable and unblockable. Traven is control immune. Your move. How do you survive?

    You're going to need a hell of a lot more than trapper roots and 25% temporary hit points.

    The only thing I can think of is that you all stand in Empowered Astral Shield. I have not done this fight but that is the only thing I can think of because that is how ppl did CN back in the day.
  • scathiasscathias Member Posts: 1,174 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    pointsman wrote: »
    The only thing I can think of is that you all stand in Empowered Astral Shield. I have not done this fight but that is the only thing I can think of because that is how ppl did CN back in the day.

    Allow me to reply with a quote from our DC made in response to someone else in another thread. Those 80k hits of drunken Rage were coming through after all the mitigation.
    thestia wrote: »
    If only. The temps provided by utilities for DCs are supposed to be 48% of HP on divine encounter use, unfortunately in practice, its about the same amount of temps provided by sacred flame. I was the DC involved in this run, and I was buffing the HAMSTER out of my team, adding 26% DR with exaltation and 40% with astral shield, de/buffing with divine glow.... it just wasn't enough in the boss fight. The rest of the dungeon was acceptably difficult, even though the tank could get flattened on a pull. But 4/5 of us were completely in max gear and this was happening. I'm not sure how people with less than that are supposed to survive.

    Granted, it wouldn't make much of a difference. If I'm getting 2 shotted by archers when I have 100k+ HP, someone with half that is likely going to be just as effective, since we're both kissing the floor.
    Guild - The Imaginary Friends
    We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    scathias wrote: »
    Allow me to reply with a quote from our DC made in response to someone else in another thread. Those 80k hits of drunken Rage were coming through after all the mitigation.

    Hmm, so in order to counteract Drunken Rage, maybe what the DC really needs to do is to cast Empowered Rehab.
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    pointsman wrote: »
    Hmm, so in order to counteract Drunken Rage, maybe what the DC really needs to do is to cast Empowered Rehab.

    I don't think so, but what if a party doesn't have a DC. Ok it will be elemental to have one, but then, who will do the DPS, since most of the current so called DPS classes are only mediocre at best with upcoming Mod.

    As somebody pointed out, my major concern is, that if BiS or nearly BiS players have major difficulties, how shall we normal geared people play it. Normal version isn't the solution either as it seems from damage charts and taking only 2 people with you isn't much fun and it won't keep players happy for long time. On the other hand epic should be doable without BiS gear too, not to mention a random party made by matchmaking.:confused:
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    2 weeks left, game is in worse shape than it was 2 weeks ago. Things are looking great!
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    2 weeks left, game is in worse shape than it was 2 weeks ago. Things are looking great!

    Hey remember module 4 release and the crazy OP dragon overload/reflect builds that ruined PVP - this went live and was live for many weeks. It happens.

    I dont see this specific one as a major reason to worry TBH because it seems very reasonable to me there is something wrong with their formula, and all that really needs to happen is a slight change to that difficulty scaling formula which will drop the damage mobs deal alot making this more than playable.

    The only reason right now that BIS players cant do some of the content is because of the damage mobs in PVE deal. If you recall they significantly upped the difficulty on any mob more than 2 levels than you, this is where the issues are.

    Once they fix it, itll be WAI and nothing to worry about.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Thinking optimistically, they could be really trying to dial things in. Last patch, the dungeons were way too easy. This patch, way too hard.

    It is a TEST server, after all? Maybe we'll see what Friday's patch brings.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • scathiasscathias Member Posts: 1,174 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Which is why we wait for each patch and hope for the best. if this goes live there will be a change, we are just hoping to save the devs some of their sanity in dealing with the general population screaming at them :)
    Guild - The Imaginary Friends
    We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
  • mrvincent1959mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I FINALLY hit level 70 with my DC. So, how is Kessels, Malabogs, Velindras dungeons in terms of difficulty? I was going to try those later today. Hope there will be enough people on preview then.
    twitch.tv/kaligold
  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    it isn't just dungeons either. HE's in IWD and WoD are basically 1-hit death machines for above-average geared players.

    heck, I took my 70 CW to Sharandar and it was difficult to do dailies. not impossible but difficult, he's far from BIS geared but well above average (all purple arty gear, rank 8 enchants, regular vorpal and soulforge, ioun stone pet with similar gear...) SHARANDAR people (level 71 enemies)

    if it goes live like this they will lose 90% of players on the first day they hit 70. the other 10% diehards will bail after about a week. no exaggeration. just RIP NWO
  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    as an example I made two level 70 CW on test.
    the first one, I made the mistake of not taking 200 dragon coins with me (they are obviously quite impossible to get on test solo). got him to 70 using regular T2 gear, wasn't hard.. the last couple levels required more dodging and potion use - but this was before one of the last patches that made things alot harder (3/6 or 3/13 patch?)

    the second copy I took 200 coins with me and bought the Elemental set as soon as I hit 61. this was after the patch so it made it a lot easier but not a cakewalk. the last 2 levels required - REQUIRED shield on tab to get anywhere. without shield on tab a single pull of 3-4 minions and an elite would wreck me within 1-2 rounds. this was in Spinward Rise (level 68-69 mobs for the most part). eventually I got to 70, got my new arty gear (except belt) and tried IWD.. NFW. just No. F. Way. WoD isn't any easier. the "2-3 recommended" minor HE's have control immune elites that hit for 65k. my guy has 61k hp and only 9% DR, do the math.

    I quit playing him within an hour of hitting 70. I will not be doing any more "testing" until they patch this [mess].
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