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Feedbak: Level 70 Dungeons - Some are not possible

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  • klangeddinklangeddin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    This must have something to do with the level 73 vs level 70 math.
    What about the normal leveling dungeons? Last time I was there (not this build) they were suffering from the opposite problem. Everything was one-shotted (bosses included) and it felt very silly.
    If that wasn't fixed I have to guess this is a level scaling issue and probably not the intended difficulty of the dungeon.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    klangeddin wrote: »
    This must have something to do with the level 73 vs level 70 math.
    What about the normal leveling dungeons? Last time I was there (not this build) they were suffering from the opposite problem. Everything was one-shotted (bosses included) and it felt very silly.
    If that wasn't fixed I have to guess this is a level scaling issue and probably not the intended difficulty of the dungeon.

    This is what I've been saying. They're trying to zero in the formula for how hard is hard and how easy is easy. I guarantee we'll see an adjustment in Friday's patch that will put it at a nice middle ground.
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  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    As long as its still only on Preview Im writing it off as a bug or miscalculation or as Ironzerg says - a search for an optimal middle ground (edit). Just because we will go to lvl 70/Mythic etc. doesnt mean we have to shut off players with lesser gear from normal gameplay. Those solo ( and I repeat SOLO ) quests must be doable even with a mix of blue and regular purple gear. For epic dungeons, skirmishes, Tia etc. I dont mind a difficulty increase, on the contrary I rather welcome it.

    Id almost be willing to bet there is a decimal in the wrong place, or a parenthesis missing or something causing the massive spike in damage.

    I dont understand why everyone always says the sky is falling, look at how much has changed recently... I mean people saying PVE dungeons are too hard is nearly akin to me talking about 3 man Que PVP: Currently you need to win 334 "rounds" to actually win the game... Well that would take you like 4 hours to do, so CLEARLY its no WAI.

    CLEARLY the dungeons are not WAI because its not even doable. They have a patch coming this week, then have another nearly 2 weeks to fix more things AND ONTOP of all this, WE dont even have the most up to date "build"- even now on PTR this is NOT the most up to date version of what they are working on.

    The last 2-3 patch notes we have got have been more "bandaid" patches to fix glaring bugs - like HR dodge encounter - so we can atleast test random things.

    Now would it be ideal if PVE were fixed? Sure, but I am guessing they are still working on the balance.

    People need to CHILL OUT. If it hits LIVE like it is now, it will become apparent VERY VERY quickly its not WAI - if its not apparent already and WILL get fixed.

    There is NO WAY this is WAI as is on PTR right now.
  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Do me a favor. Take your level 60 and try to go finish your daily quests in WoD or IWD. Then come back here and give us a INFORMED opinion.

    IWD and WOD is lv 70 content in next mod
    you need to raise your lv to 70 and at least use blue gear so you can called it a test
  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You, sir, are a colossal buffoon.

    Quite why you see fit to comment on content you haven't even attempted is beyond me. And as for the above baloney - I am rendered almost speechless. This game has content designed to be for solo play. This is not a privilege of being BiS, it's how the content is intended to be run. Only now that won't be possible.

    Have fun in your empty game when all the non-BiS folk have left.

    Well NW is online game i played it so i can played with friends and found new friend
    if you only looking for solo content what the difference than played offline game?
    non bis player will go? There will be build community that help each other not some clueless player playing solo
    harder content will last long not like some easy dungeon with 1 tank and all about paingiver that will only last 2-3 week until we got bored
    I am personaly agree to make content harder and need teamwork and tactic if you don't agree it's your problem not mine
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    piejal wrote: »
    IWD and WOD is lv 70 content in next mod
    you need to raise your lv to 70 and at least use blue gear so you can called it a test

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?839481-Official-Feedback-Thread-Campaign-Rework
    ontheriver wrote: »
    Greetings Adventurers!
    With the increase in level cap we are taking this opportunity to adjust how our campaigns work. Our intent is that the Sharandar, Dread Ring, and Icewind Dale campaigns remain compelling high level content, while the Tyranny of Dragons Campaign continues to provide an exciting and challenging introduction to campaigns while leveling, and an engaging alternative to the regular leveling content.

    The endgame campaigns have been adjusted to bolster players’ combat effectiveness to ensure the content can be played by anyone of level 60 or higher. The combat effectiveness of players in the Tyranny of Dragon campaign areas is adjusted to suit the level of content in that area.

    The durations and earnings from campaign tasks have not altered and players should not lose any campaign progress they have already made. These campaigns should now provide additional leveling content for post-level 60 progression. Boon and Gear Score requirements have been removed.

    Some item rewards from repeatable campaign tasks have been updated to be appropriate for the new level of the content. Drops have been updated to provide suitable gear for leveling from 60-70.

    Tiamat remains as an endgame encounter. Players level 60 or above will be able to participate in the fight, and their effective level will be raised to 70 for the duration of the encounter. The enemies there will continue to pose a suitable challenge.

    If you had spent even a minute on the preview server, long enough to actually experience what we're talking about, you'd know that you can go to the campaign areas when you're level 60, and that you're bolstered to level 70.

    But you don't.

    Because you haven't.

    Which is why your replies in this thread aren't relevant.
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  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You can go there does not mean you have capability to solo fight mobs in there
    look at mobs lv it not lv 60 it lv 70 read devtracker this was the reason of new map for lv 60-70
    if you think use lv 10 character and fight lv 20 mobs and experince difficulty and blame the system then you are the smartest man alive
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Did you not read the Dev post? I even made it bold, bigger font and highlighted it red for you.
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  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    This is what I've been saying. They're trying to zero in the formula for how hard is hard and how easy is easy. I guarantee we'll see an adjustment in Friday's patch that will put it at a nice middle ground.
    except it doesn't feel like they are trying to "zero in" on anything here...

    it isn't like NASA trying to land on the moon and they get all the way there but they are off their landing site by a couple hundred feet so the pilot needs to grab the controls and correct it himself (this actually happened)

    this is like NASA trying to land on the moon and their first rocket takes off but only flies up about 6 feet in the air, then crashes back down to earth.

    then their 2nd rocket just explodes on the pad

    then their 3rd rocket takes off and flies directly into the center of the sun...

    there's no fine tuning going on here, just completely random shots in the dark.

    and piejal? yeah, just stop talking. seriously just go try it yourself. you can take your level 60 guy to IWD or WoD and it boosts you to 70. actually you might have an easier time this way due to the f'ed up "stat curves". or you can spend a few hours levelling to 70 (as many of us here HAVE DONE) and try it then. until you try it yourself, yeah just stop talking.
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I think reduction of mobs lvl by1-2lvls could easy fix them
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    warpet wrote: »
    I think reduction of mobs lvl by1-2lvls could easy fix them

    Originally the mobs were suppose to be level 72. Maybe some of the devs were curious what would happen if they threw level 73 mobs at people. Now they know.
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  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My thoughts again:

    I lead currently 2 guilds, now my perspective with players may sound interesting to those elitists lurking around here and may be a good advise to Devs, at least i hope so.

    Ok, NO ONE will do every solo content in a team, NO ONE. You don't go to toilet with help. Doing elementary things together, even if it's an MMO, is either a too optimistic view or a bad idea.

    A good MMO is a mix of solo and group content!

    We have a nice guild, we help each other, but Jesus it would be a mess, if we had to take every 482 members hand and go with him or her together on the most primitive content to be able to do it.

    As GM i have a look on my player base and it shows a good picture of the player base of Neverwinter. We got all sorts of players, wallet warriors, hard core, casual and absolute beginners, even people with issues, who can't spend all day in front of the monitor, be it even some health issue- sadly. But all are here to have fun!

    Now, if Mod goes live in this state, i can only second the picture from the desert above, it will dramatically decrease the player base. I am not saying they would all leave, but many would go into hibernation, meaning they would only come up and invoke, maybe a bit profession and away.

    I think none of us wants this. Standing in PE and seeing only full orange elitists or botters would be a nightmare for me.

    So back to the average Joe, if he is active and does his daily few hours, he is around 15-17k depending on class. Now if a BiS or a nearly BiS player has difficulties, what will this normal player i mentioned before have?! How long will he be able to have the willpower to fight against his or her confusion or depression?! Not to mention the new coming players or those players, who are here, are average Joes and start a new toon, a Paladin and will have to face the uber harsh environment in average gear, not starting with rank 10 or 12 and not having perfect or higher enchants at their disposal?!

    My only hope is too, that Devs will scale down things and test it on a normal geared toon. Also my hint to them is, people don't want to do everything together, this is not the 19th century, people don't like each other that much and besides everybody wants a bit private room these days.
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  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Did you not read the Dev post? I even made it bold, bigger font and highlighted it red for you.

    Yes our lv scale to lv 70 when enter the zone but did you use eq lv 70? Did you get 4th artifact? Did you notice the stat difference equip lv 60 with lv 70?
    even bis player in mod 5 enter wod or iwd their equip will be equal green gear lv 70

    Just because you can enter the zone does not mean you mean can to do it solo
    for example at lv 30 tyrany dragon campaign unlocked so can you kill dragon with +-7 player lv 30?
    can you clear ghost story quest at lv 30 solo? Hey you can enter the zone right?
  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Those daily minidungeon quests won't pop until you hit lvl 60, I mean Ghost Stories and the like
  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Originally the mobs were suppose to be level 72. Maybe some of the devs were curious what would happen if they threw level 73 mobs at people. Now they know.

    I hope u are right since if dungeons come like this we wont have anyone to play it with since noone will play them and we will lose a lot of players
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    piejal wrote: »
    Yes our lv scale to lv 70 when enter the zone but did you use eq lv 70? Did you get 4th artifact? Did you notice the stat difference equip lv 60 with lv 70?
    even bis player in mod 5 enter wod or iwd their equip will be equal green gear lv 70

    Are you not reading what the Developers wrote? The campaign areas are suppose to be an alternative path for people as they level up to 60.

    Can you at least confirm that you understand that? The intention is that people who just turned level 60 and are in level 60 gear should be able to go to those zones. Is it going to be hard? Probably. But should mobs literally one-shot you? I don't think so.

    Go into IWD now with a fresh level 60 on the Live server. You can fight there. It's challenging to a new 60, but you can scrape your way through. You may or may not need help doing the smallest level heroics, but you definitely aren't soloing the medium or bigger ones. But it's also possible to solo through the quests.

    On Preview, you can't. Doing the basic quests is extremely difficult because anything bigger than a regular minion mob is hitting you for 25-50k.

    If the intent AS STATED BY THE DEVS IN THE CAMPAIGN REWORK THREAD is for the campaign areas to be accessible to level 60+ characters as an alternative means of leveling, then the difficulty level is not dialed in.

    And you admittedly have NOT been on the Preview server and tried any of this, so your opinion is really nothing but noise here.
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  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Dungeons and heroic encounters should still be for parties.

    Small mobs are still doable in the preview server. A bit harder than before, but still doable.
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  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I'd just like to use this opportunity to say that boosting enemy damage/reducing player damage only because of level difference is one of the worst game mechanics ever designed, and it sucked in every game it was implemented in, and, as we can see, it sucks in NW. Big surprise.
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    vordayn wrote: »
    Dungeons and heroic encounters should still be for parties.

    Small mobs are still doable in the preview server. A bit harder than before, but still doable.
    Just wanna notice you something:
    In order to finish the daily quests in IWP, (pick at least one - usually two - from the belows):
    a. you MUST kill Dire Polar Bear (I might missed the name, it is the one w/ the little PB next to the caravan member you have to rescue)
    b. you MUST kill Giants
    c. you MUST kill Barbarian Shamans/Warriors/Rangers
    d. you MUST kill Yetis
    e. you MUST kill Barbarian Raider (at least one during the fuel the cannons quest)
    Let me know, which of them are small mobs in your eyes. If any of them, then you might not tried IWP since the last Friday patch ^^ :)
  • animalustanimalust Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 573 Bounty Hunter
    edited March 2015
    daaaaamn, if this stays true, how will my SW ever being able to TT those Scorpions now?
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    piejal wrote: »
    Yes our lv scale to lv 70 when enter the zone but did you use eq lv 70? Did you get 4th artifact? Did you notice the stat difference equip lv 60 with lv 70?
    even bis player in mod 5 enter wod or iwd their equip will be equal green gear lv 70

    Just because you can enter the zone does not mean you mean can to do it solo
    for example at lv 30 tyrany dragon campaign unlocked so can you kill dragon with +-7 player lv 30?
    can you clear ghost story quest at lv 30 solo? Hey you can enter the zone right?

    I have already tested them with my HR and its not as simple as u think. And yea i tested with a lvl70 archery HR with 63k hp ( 2pcs lvl70 epic pvp gear and 2 pcs random blue gear u get from quest. Even if i got full set of lvl70 pvp gear..my hp will be still at 73k hp. ) and i died 3-4 time trying to kill 2 normal polar bear. Why? because they hit like a truck. 24-28k from each polar bear. That means i cant take more than 2 blows from both bear ( with potting and lifesteal proc) and i need 2-3 rotation to kill them which usualy i dun end up well on the 2nd despite dodging, fox, bloodcrystal and dailies. Pots only heal u 10k with 18 sec cooldown. Lifesteal no longer work at 100% success. Trapper might be easier but its still hell of a fight that spam everything u got.

    Edit : and yea i do have 4 artifact equipped..but so what? when both bear could kill me in 2 swipe. And thats just normal polar bear..i doesnt even dare to go for the big one.
  • mrvincent1959mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I got invited one hour ago to party and was hoping to try some 1600 dungeons, but he only wanted Cragmire, so that's where we went. It was hilarious. We made it pretty far before disbanding. This dungeon is going to require some serious gear/strats and mass debuffs/heals etc to complete. If it goes live like this I have no problem as long as there are other dungeons that are more feasible and allow for progression via seal or drops etc.
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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ​​ Suggestion : decrease damage in dungeons but add more special attacks on monsters and at least 3 special attacks on bosses which will require a really good strategy to avoid those 3 attacks.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,467 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    kangkeok wrote: »
    I have already tested them with my HR and its not as simple as u think. And yea i tested with a lvl70 archery HR with 63k hp ( 2pcs lvl70 epic pvp gear and 2 pcs random blue gear u get from quest. Even if i got full set of lvl70 pvp gear..my hp will be still at 73k hp. ) and i died 3-4 time trying to kill 2 normal polar bear. Why? because they hit like a truck. 24-28k from each polar bear. That means i cant take more than 2 blows from both bear ( with potting and lifesteal proc) and i need 2-3 rotation to kill them which usualy i dun end up well on the 2nd despite dodging, fox, bloodcrystal and dailies. Pots only heal u 10k with 18 sec cooldown. Lifesteal no longer work at 100% success. Trapper might be easier but its still hell of a fight that spam everything u got.

    Edit : and yea i do have 4 artifact equipped..but so what? when both bear could kill me in 2 swipe. And thats just normal polar bear..i doesnt even dare to go for the big one.

    This does not bode well AT ALL. Let me juxtapose my current L60 archer Stormwarden for comparison:

    GS: 25.5k
    HP: 41k
    Defense: 6208
    Regen: 2600 or so
    Damage resistance: 48-49%

    I can take the 25k hits from Tiamat adds, but this is ***ONLY*** because the L60 curve + legendary Lathander's cloak gives me that damage resistance (and I had to sacrifice a lot of offense to get it). I understand that at L70 we won't have anywhere near the same DR for the same defense, and the mobs will hit just as hard.

    AND we can't drink potions as often!

    Oh, and that 2600 regen? It might as well be ZERO for all the help it will be while getting eaten by bears.

    I've already refined a legendary Aurora's Catalog for the 14k heal potions. I can honestly tell you that my HR is pretty much as tanky as possible. She wears two Rings of Shielding and has two MORE on her chicken augment, all reinforced with +50 regen. All armor pieces are reinforced with 100 defense. Legendary Lath cloak and belt, with another +50 regen on the cloak. Legendary weapons, etc. etc., all R10 enchants and runestones, slanted heavily toward defense and HP (and I don't PvP!) Two-slot rings might add more offense, but they definitely won't add more defense (she'll actually lose some).

    Now, how does that bode for Level 70? Her damage resistance will surely plummet, and she is utterly unlike any average player's character. If this is what it takes to stand toe-to-toe with mobs that hit that hard, I predict an absolute bloodbath for us lowly archers once we hit 70. Maybe my Thia will survive, but there will be entire cemetaries full of HR bones all over the place.
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  • piejalpiejal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    kangkeok wrote: »
    I have already tested them with my HR and its not as simple as u think. And yea i tested with a lvl70 archery HR with 63k hp ( 2pcs lvl70 epic pvp gear and 2 pcs random blue gear u get from quest. Even if i got full set of lvl70 pvp gear..my hp will be still at 73k hp. ) and i died 3-4 time trying to kill 2 normal polar bear. Why? because they hit like a truck. 24-28k from each polar bear. That means i cant take more than 2 blows from both bear ( with potting and lifesteal proc) and i need 2-3 rotation to kill them which usualy i dun end up well on the 2nd despite dodging, fox, bloodcrystal and dailies. Pots only heal u 10k with 18 sec cooldown. Lifesteal no longer work at 100% success. Trapper might be easier but its still hell of a fight that spam everything u got.

    Edit : and yea i do have 4 artifact equipped..but so what? when both bear could kill me in 2 swipe. And thats just normal polar bear..i doesnt even dare to go for the big one.

    yes it will be hard to solo.. i don't say that it's gonna be easy after we get lv 70 gear.. it's not just as bad as people think
    but that's the point "harder content"
    for casual player that not yet BIS they can just make party 2-3 player
  • jaotutjaotut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You can maybe try and spec into being tankier, archery is a rather glass cannon build with not much control.

    I would rather have new content that at first seems too difficult, so either we find something that works, or have them to reduce the difficulty bit by bit if needed. When this goes live, and dungeons are played by the whole server's population, maybe there are people that can clear it.

    If the content can be cleared so easily by everyone's first attempt, then it'll become the old brainless boring grind.

    I remembered when CN was actually difficult for a while, until people experimented and found ways to clear it. If players made mistakes then it can cause a wipe if they don't recover from it. Things like that made PvE interesting and challenging.
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  • rinat114rinat114 Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hustin1 wrote: »
    I've already refined a legendary Aurora's Catalog for the 14k heal potions.

    I just gotta take a moment and QQ
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Did you not read the Dev post? I even made it bold, bigger font and highlighted it red for you.
    I read it, because I am literate... :cool:
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  • kaiserschmarrnkaiserschmarrn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 390
    edited March 2015
    Would be nice to get some official word about these concerns.

    My 60 Ranger gets destroyed in 2 hits in IWD at 1900 gear rating. So either the boost to 70 is bugged or something is seriously off.
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