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Feedbak: Level 70 Dungeons - Some are not possible
abaddon523
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I was able to put together a group of 5 people to try out some dungeons on the preview server. We attempted the epic Lair of Lostmauth and Epic Cragmire Crypt. My computer crashed after fighting the twin Scorpions in eLoL so I don't have ACT logs for everything before that. But I have enough logs to get the point across.
Our party was a GF, DC, GWF, and 2 CW's (one Renegade, one Oppressor). I've run dungeons with these players before and we basically just run through dungeons with ease. There's no challenge whatsoever. On the preview server all of us have the new weapons at either Epic or Legendary, all have over 70k HP (GF, GWF, and DC had well over 100k), all had Rank 10 or better enchantments, all know how to play.
Epic Lair of Lostmauth
This dungeon wasn't too bad. Our tank was able to do their job and things went fairly smoothly. That is, until the Twinfire Scorpions. Their base damage is absurd. In between deaths, which were kinda frequent, we would look at the battle logs to see what killed us. There were hits of 600k, 900k, even 1.4 million. Our tank, through no fault of theirs, simply could not tank these guys. Their damage is way, way too high. Our GWF didn't fare any better since he had to stand next to them to attack. The only solution was to not get hit. Ever. The DC and 2 CW's were able to kite them around the room and eventually wear them down.
Lostmauth was not fun. Here is a pic of his outgoing damage:
As you can see, he's basically just a 1-shot machine. He can hit for over 2 million damage and most of his attacks are over 200k. Lostmauth can roar, then while you can't move you get hit by a fireball which can knock you into his breath attack...and you're dead. Or if you're a GWF and you take one bite...you're dead. The only real way to beat him, again, is just to not get hit. Our group was able to beat him but it wasn't pretty.
If this goes live as is 90% or more of all attempts at this dungeon will fail. Although I'm not sure all that many will even try it. There was nothing we received from the run that was worth anything--some Elemental seals and some bound blue level 70 gear that we could salvage for a few thousand RAD. It wasn't worth the trip. It will never be worth the trip if it goes live as is.
Something else that was rather odd started happening here as well. Our GWF turned into a Destroyer of Worlds and starting dealing crazy damage:
That's a Restoring Strike with base damage of 959k. Something looks to not be working as intended there. Not sure what's causing it, though.
Epic Cragmire Crypts
Then things got really ugly. Epic Cragmire is a nightmare. I attempted this dungeon a few weeks ago and my feedback then was that the enemies hit way too hard: random adds were hitting for 80k and Traven Blackdagger was hitting for over 250k. Well, now it's worse.
A lot worse.
The first group of enemies in the dungeon wiped us out four times. The range enemies firing arrows just kept 1-shotting people before we could even get to them. We slowly and methodically made our way to the end of the dungeon while dying frequently. The first mini-boss dropped a whole 2 Seals of the Protector. The second mini-boss (a party of adventurers) dropped nothing.
Then we got to Traven Blackdagger.
Traven Blackdagger has attacks with a base damage up to 4.7 million. His backstab hits for over 3 million. Even his basic attacks like "kick" hit for over 500k. Even if you have a super-amazing tank who can somehow take that kind of abuse your party is still totally screwed. Every 30 seconds or so a group of Snipers and Cutthroats will spawn all over the room. They'll each target a random member of your party and do this:
They're 1-hit kill machines and there is no possible way for a tank to draw all of their fire the moment they spawn.
And it gets worse, still.
Traven Blackdagger has an attack called "Firebomb" where he sets a large part of the ground on fire. This fire does not go away. So as the fight progresses eventually the entire floor gets set on fire (think Epic Shores of Tuern fire spots). There is a solution to this, but unfortunately the cure is worse than the disease. There is a cask at the back of the room that extinguishes the flames. However, when you use the cask it "enrages" Traven and he executes the equivalent of a TR's Bloodbath attack. He teleports around the room randomly slashing party members over three seconds. The damage is unblockable and undodgeable. He does up to 10 slashes and the damage ranges from 80k to 700k. It's an instant annihilation of your party.
Here's Travern's outgoing damage from one of our attempts at him:
Since the patch on Friday this dungeon is not possible. It cannot be done.
This is not a "learn to play" issue. This is not a "you just need better gear" issue. This is not a "you just need a better tank" issue. This is not a "your healer wasn't doing their job" issue. This was not a "you just need more DPS" issue.
This is not possible.
Our party was a GF, DC, GWF, and 2 CW's (one Renegade, one Oppressor). I've run dungeons with these players before and we basically just run through dungeons with ease. There's no challenge whatsoever. On the preview server all of us have the new weapons at either Epic or Legendary, all have over 70k HP (GF, GWF, and DC had well over 100k), all had Rank 10 or better enchantments, all know how to play.
Epic Lair of Lostmauth
This dungeon wasn't too bad. Our tank was able to do their job and things went fairly smoothly. That is, until the Twinfire Scorpions. Their base damage is absurd. In between deaths, which were kinda frequent, we would look at the battle logs to see what killed us. There were hits of 600k, 900k, even 1.4 million. Our tank, through no fault of theirs, simply could not tank these guys. Their damage is way, way too high. Our GWF didn't fare any better since he had to stand next to them to attack. The only solution was to not get hit. Ever. The DC and 2 CW's were able to kite them around the room and eventually wear them down.
Lostmauth was not fun. Here is a pic of his outgoing damage:
As you can see, he's basically just a 1-shot machine. He can hit for over 2 million damage and most of his attacks are over 200k. Lostmauth can roar, then while you can't move you get hit by a fireball which can knock you into his breath attack...and you're dead. Or if you're a GWF and you take one bite...you're dead. The only real way to beat him, again, is just to not get hit. Our group was able to beat him but it wasn't pretty.
If this goes live as is 90% or more of all attempts at this dungeon will fail. Although I'm not sure all that many will even try it. There was nothing we received from the run that was worth anything--some Elemental seals and some bound blue level 70 gear that we could salvage for a few thousand RAD. It wasn't worth the trip. It will never be worth the trip if it goes live as is.
Something else that was rather odd started happening here as well. Our GWF turned into a Destroyer of Worlds and starting dealing crazy damage:
That's a Restoring Strike with base damage of 959k. Something looks to not be working as intended there. Not sure what's causing it, though.
Epic Cragmire Crypts
Then things got really ugly. Epic Cragmire is a nightmare. I attempted this dungeon a few weeks ago and my feedback then was that the enemies hit way too hard: random adds were hitting for 80k and Traven Blackdagger was hitting for over 250k. Well, now it's worse.
A lot worse.
The first group of enemies in the dungeon wiped us out four times. The range enemies firing arrows just kept 1-shotting people before we could even get to them. We slowly and methodically made our way to the end of the dungeon while dying frequently. The first mini-boss dropped a whole 2 Seals of the Protector. The second mini-boss (a party of adventurers) dropped nothing.
Then we got to Traven Blackdagger.
Traven Blackdagger has attacks with a base damage up to 4.7 million. His backstab hits for over 3 million. Even his basic attacks like "kick" hit for over 500k. Even if you have a super-amazing tank who can somehow take that kind of abuse your party is still totally screwed. Every 30 seconds or so a group of Snipers and Cutthroats will spawn all over the room. They'll each target a random member of your party and do this:
They're 1-hit kill machines and there is no possible way for a tank to draw all of their fire the moment they spawn.
And it gets worse, still.
Traven Blackdagger has an attack called "Firebomb" where he sets a large part of the ground on fire. This fire does not go away. So as the fight progresses eventually the entire floor gets set on fire (think Epic Shores of Tuern fire spots). There is a solution to this, but unfortunately the cure is worse than the disease. There is a cask at the back of the room that extinguishes the flames. However, when you use the cask it "enrages" Traven and he executes the equivalent of a TR's Bloodbath attack. He teleports around the room randomly slashing party members over three seconds. The damage is unblockable and undodgeable. He does up to 10 slashes and the damage ranges from 80k to 700k. It's an instant annihilation of your party.
Here's Travern's outgoing damage from one of our attempts at him:
Since the patch on Friday this dungeon is not possible. It cannot be done.
This is not a "learn to play" issue. This is not a "you just need better gear" issue. This is not a "you just need a better tank" issue. This is not a "your healer wasn't doing their job" issue. This was not a "you just need more DPS" issue.
This is not possible.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by abaddon523 on
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Comments
DC incoming damage
GWF incoming damage
My incoming damage:
The other CW's incoming damage:
But I do like they've added additional mechanics to boss fights, that was needed.
If its any consolation the GWF did more damage than the rest of the party combined.
And it's not like he was the only one who got the tar beat out of him.
If its intended, rewards must be worth the pain. U r not going to play 3h dung with 50 reapeats for 10 seals reward. Thats just a joke.
I just think some some1 put one 0 too much in dmg multiplicator. I hope so. Well i can understand if boss will have killing atak for 500k base dmg or so. If it will be atk focused on one tanking him. ONLY. somthing liek bloodbath will wipe party regardless of if u can dodge or not. One die and u have 4 targets only, and classes like gf, op, sw and gwf will die.
I will be happy if dungs will by hard (base dmg from 50k-500k, max on boss atk) with rly nice rewards (at least guarantee purple drop normally obtianed in seal shop, unbound. Come1, r u joking me, blues?) but not near to immposible. Lets remember, we wont have r12 first day. For me personaly r9 will be best on my toons. Probably forever. I dont even want to refine any further. Not speaking about farming.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
That said, I'd like more challenging content to a certain degree. New dungeons shouldn't be beaten instantly like LoL. 1/x MC/CN runs were the glory days, because not everybody could actually beat the last bosses and had to gear up through partial runs.
I want AD.
I want RP.
I don't want seals, blue gear or bound crappy stuff that I wont use. Im not spending an hour in a dungeon for less than 200k AD. I miss the the days CN were the best thing in this game. When the loot was actually worth up to a million AD.
Man i'n realy glad i've bought ESO, and it's half way downloaded(31GB download
Just started ESO yesterday, and so far i am really liking it. A lot different than NWN but atleast it have some good stories and quests in it:)
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
I don't know man, my first Spellplague runs, back in beta, were lasting a good 2h or even more, depending on the party. That's not glorious in comparison with the current standards, but it was fun and the loot was worth it, at that time.
I belive that while there might be a bug, everyone is panicking because the meta is changing. GFs are going to have to tank. DCs are going to have to heal. CWs will have to focus on control. Then there's two wildcards for other dps classes with some support abilities.
I don't think a 300k hit from a boss is outrageous. Don't get hit by the boss, that's all. In the OP we clearly see that these people were standing in red, and then OP comes here and complains because he can't do that anymore. Well, guess what, red is supposed to be deadly. Some adds are hitting quite a lot but minions always hit hard in this game, and there's a good reason to that: they have very little HP. The more I read the figures in the OP, the more I'm laughing at the complaint, because he was just standing in red, having aggro from the boss while he shouldn't (that's the tank's job), and someone didn't stunlock minions to kill them asap. They were doing very noobish mistakes. Standing in red should be a no-no. Not letting the tank building aggro also seems like a bad idea.
If we remove the "I was standing in red trolololo" damage, it suddenly seems very reasonable anyway.
The most damage we ever did to him was 5 million. His health never got below 85%. That puts his health at, roughly, 30 million HP total. That seems about right since Lostmauth had 21 million HP and this is a higher tier dungeon. There's no way a party of 5 will be able to do 30 million damage before the floor is completely covered with fire. It's not a "kill him before the floor is covered" mechanism. It's a "you better strategize about how to periodically clear the floor of fire in addition to just killing stuff" mechanism.
Uhhh.....right. Believe what you wish.
The final boss fight though something needs to change. There is no terrain (read corners) to use to avoid add aggro to avoid an attack it is just an open area. You all know what the CC boss room looks like, you know where the adds spawn (about 3 per side of the room with equal numbers of archers and melee adds (about 6 adds per wave)). the boss spawns with no adds and you can get him down to 95% HP before the first wave of adds spawn (they are on a timer, not a % of boss HP) these adds are easy enough to clear because there is only 3-4 firebomb red areas on the ground (the fire areas tick for about 20-30k damage per second when you step in them) though while you clear the adds you will have to deal with 2 new fire bomb areas.
Now you can fight the boss again during which he will teleport across the room to do what he likes while you chase after him. if you can aggro him in a clear area to fight him that area will soon be covered in red from another firebomb attack. during this phase the boss has added another 3-4 firebomb red areas such that about 80% of the floor is covered in red. Now the one shot adds spawn again and you have no way to get to them, the boss is still attack and there is no way to avoid his attacks without standing in more red.
The only thing you can do now is clear the red area by breaking the bosses keg of grog at the back of the room (no this is the actual tactic) which then sends the boss into a Drunken Rage doing as abaddon described, a large number of hits, that hit very hard and end the boss fight. at this point there are adds and the boss is at best 85% hp.
During the fight the GF is able to get one shot through block by a boss attack that activates too quickly to avoid (the animation on attacks has been sped up on several bosses including the scorpions in Lostmauth). The boss is supposed to hurt, i get it, but an attack with 4 million base damage seems excessive. I had an add walk up to me while i was running to meet him and do a melee attack for 160k (97k). Their normal attacks hurt really really bad now and there is no red area telegraphed by these minion adds to inform you that it is coming. Unfortunately we were unable to progress far enough in the boss fight to see if the Hexer adds would also start spawning farther into the fight since the first 5 minutes (85% hp) they did not.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Travel Blackdagger seems like a brick house of a boss... Should be an adventure of love and frustration trying to beat him! lol
:cool:
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We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
How does a party with a perma tr manage? I imagine that with a group of 5 perma tr's, it is not impossible anymore.
Timing is very important here. When I walked into Cragmire Crypt with this group I believe I even said in chat "this should be pretty easy with this group. I was in here a few weeks ago with a much worse group and it wasn't that bad." Boy, was that inaccurate.
Every patch they change things. Sometimes its intentional. Sometimes not. How it was a few weeks ago may no longer be relevant.
Touche. It may be possible with perma-stealth TR.
Though I don't think that should be the measuring stick developers use when tuning difficulty for the player base as a whole.