justice tree is a disappointment, there is only 1 feat i like, all the paladin trees are boring support <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, rename the class for some dumb ****** cleric, its NOT a paladin
Well, it is supposed to be a support class after all which in of itself is really lame as paladins shouldn't be a support class.
I must be the only person who loves that the paladin "IS" a support class, I'm sick of the game community's (everything must be pure DPS!!! Moar DPS!) Well I hate dps classes, they require little to no brain activity to play, most of the classes I've played so far are downright boring and designed for nothing but solo gameplay.
Now while I like the class mechanics of paladins so far, I will admit some of the skills are pretty bad. (Thankfully only a few so far.) And the dps is "atrociously" bad, I don't want it to be a dps class, but even I admit it would be a hell of a grind to level one without being one of the game's many wallet warriors. And finally, the class is really crappy at absolutely everything till level 30, it can neither tank, healer, dps, or support worth a **** till it gets an oath. Most classes are sub-par before 30, but the paladin is downright garbage before level 30, due to skills you get before 30 being absolute trash until you unlock their upgraded oath powers. Before level 30 he shouldn't be called a paladin, he should be called "Some guy with a mace." And that is a issue.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
I must be the only person who loves that the paladin "IS" a support class, I'm sick of the game community's (everything must be pure DPS!!! Moar DPS!) Well I hate dps classes, they require little to no brain activity to play, most of the classes I've played so far are downright boring and designed for nothing but solo gameplay.
Now while I like the class mechanics of paladins so far, I will admit some of the skills are pretty bad. (Thankfully only a few so far.) And the dps is "atrociously" bad, I don't want it to be a dps class, but even I admit it would be a hell of a grind to level one without being one of the game's many wallet warriors. And finally, the class is really crappy at absolutely everything till level 30, it can neither tank, healer, dps, or support worth a **** till it gets an oath. Most classes are sub-par before 30, but the paladin is downright garbage before level 30, due to skills you get before 30 being absolute trash until you unlock their upgraded oath powers. Before level 30 he shouldn't be called a paladin, he should be called "Some guy with a mace." And that is a issue.
Its not about to make paladin DPS class .
But pls before you say somthing go out to well of dragons to kill 1 group of mobs take more then 8 min if you can interrupt the "drink potion " .
End game gear conq GF need also 3-5 min to kill 1 group of mobs those things are not normal CW / TR / HR /SW need 10-20 sec .
PPL give at least honest feedback i dont want to do 1-2 hours to spen on 1 zone cuz you cant see what is obliviously wrong with paladin.
Agan pls go here with your paladin kill some mobs if you even can .
Then if you can do it in resonable time you can post us some video to to proof we can make daly quest in resonable time.
I've gone into WoD with a lvl 70 paladin (RIP that paladin thanks to the BLACK HOLES, btw) and the mobs definitely took forever to kill.
But I also had mostly green gear at lvl 61-64, a lvl 70 blue main hand and two green artifacts. I'd like to see how a competently geared Paladin would do, although I'm not sure even that would be enough.
Like I've said before, I'm fine with OP's dealing the least damage of the classes and being good at support but their damage is lagging too far behind.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I feel like a Paladin ought to be able to do something when holding shift. GF at least has aggravating strike and shieldslam, but the Paladin just sits there with Shield up and a ring. It's very unsatisfying.
Ok so I took my level Protector (Bulwark) 60, with just the into to Elemental Evil gear and Neverember's gift cloak and a single Green Artifact, into Well and did the encounters that schweifer1982 highlights above. Sure it wasn't the blast through it would be with my DPS classes, but given that compared to a level 70(ish) character that is more completely geared (more Rank 7 enchants, better companion etc) these encounters would be easy, as it is they are barely affecting me and its just a matter of time to kill them all.
I killed all 3 spawns, plus 3 others at the area indicated in the map in a timely enough manner, the only thing that slowed me down was messing up one of the Blue guys with the shield. Certainly nothing stood out in how long it took given how badly geared the character is and how low level it is compared to the zone.
I'm running Relentless Avenger (1 pip), Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, Aura of Courage, Aura of Radiance with Shielding Strike and Radiant Strike as at wills and Divine Judgement and Lay on Hands as dailies (only use Lay on the white Mage companion) with 6752 power and a 23% crit chance. Con 25, Wis 21, Cha 19.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Ok so I took my level Protector (Bulwark) 60, with just the into to Elemental Evil gear and Neverember's gift cloak and a single Green Artifact, into Well and did the encounters that schweifer1982 highlights above. Sure it wasn't the blast through it would be with my DPS classes, but given that compared to a level 70(ish) character that is more completely geared (more Rank 7 enchants, better companion etc) these encounters would be easy, as it is they are barely affecting me and its just a matter of time to kill them all.
I killed all 3 spawns, plus 3 others at the area indicated in the map in a timely enough manner, the only thing that slowed me down was messing up one of the Blue guys with the shield. Certainly nothing stood out in how long it took given how badly geared the character is and how low level it is compared to the zone.
I'm running Relentless Avenger (1 pip), Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, Aura of Courage, Aura of Radiance with Shielding Strike and Radiant Strike as at wills and Divine Judgement and Lay on Hands as dailies (only use Lay on the white Mage companion) with 6752 power and a 23% crit chance. Con 25, Wis 21, Cha 19.
No i dont talk about encounters i talk about regular quests not Heroic encounters go to the exact spot what i showed on the map.
Pick up some quest the H.encounter mobs are not updated they are weak as in live.
I must be the only person who loves that the paladin "IS" a support class, I'm sick of the game community's (everything must be pure DPS!!! Moar DPS!) Well I hate dps classes, they require little to no brain activity to play, most of the classes I've played so far are downright boring and designed for nothing but solo gameplay.
Now while I like the class mechanics of paladins so far, I will admit some of the skills are pretty bad. (Thankfully only a few so far.) And the dps is "atrociously" bad, I don't want it to be a dps class, but even I admit it would be a hell of a grind to level one without being one of the game's many wallet warriors. And finally, the class is really crappy at absolutely everything till level 30, it can neither tank, healer, dps, or support worth a **** till it gets an oath. Most classes are sub-par before 30, but the paladin is downright garbage before level 30, due to skills you get before 30 being absolute trash until you unlock their upgraded oath powers. Before level 30 he shouldn't be called a paladin, he should be called "Some guy with a mace." And that is a issue.
Paladin IS NOT a support class, what we got is a CLERIC, Paladin has to kick *** and smite evil, while inspiring his team, this one does not, because its a cleric - a pure bland support
Its not about to make paladin DPS class .
But pls before you say somthing go out to well of dragons to kill 1 group of mobs take more then 8 min if you can interrupt the "drink potion " .
End game gear conq GF need also 3-5 min to kill 1 group of mobs those things are not normal CW / TR / HR /SW need 10-20 sec .
PPL give at least honest feedback i dont want to do 1-2 hours to spen on 1 zone cuz you cant see what is obliviously wrong with paladin.
Agan pls go here with your paladin kill some mobs if you even can .
Then if you can do it in resonable time you can post us some video to to proof we can make daly quest in resonable time.
If you had read all of my post and not just skimmed the first line or two you would have seen I agree with you, the class DOES have too little dps, I just don't want it to be stripped of all it's interesting support skills to be given godmode dps like all the other classes have recieved, even the **** cleric in this game is nothing but dps, DPS, DPS!!!!. I'm sick of pure dps classes, EVERY other class is now dps, followed by some sort of subclass, well except control wizard, that class is raw dps coated in dps, dps sprinkled on top, with a final dps glaze. They should just give the **** control wizard a literal skill called "you instantly die" they can activate at will with left click.
Paladin IS NOT a support class, what we got is a CLERIC, Paladin has to kick *** and smite evil, while inspiring his team, this one does not, because its a cleric - a pure bland support
I can't argue with you completely, as I think the cleric should be the support class the paladin currently is, and the paladin should be the overpowered dps godmode that the cleric currently is and that everyone currently wants.
If you had read all of my post and not just skimmed the first line or two you would have seen I agree with you, the class DOES have too little dps, I just don't want it to be stripped of all it's interesting support skills to be given godmode dps like all the other classes have recieved, even the **** cleric in this game is nothing but dps, DPS, DPS!!!!. I'm sick of pure dps classes, EVERY other class is now dps, followed by some sort of subclass, well except control wizard, that class is raw dps coated in dps, dps sprinkled on top, with a final dps glaze. They should just give the **** control wizard a literal skill called "you instantly die" they can activate at will with left click.
I can't argue with you completely, as I think the cleric should be the support class the paladin currently is, and the paladin should be the overpowered dps godmode that the cleric currently is and that everyone currently wants.
I don't really want a full dps paladin as that'd get boring. I'm wanting a hybrid that has a good amount of dps with good utility so that they can provide enough dps to not only tank but also keep threat and still be able to heal/buff as needed.
I don't really want a full dps paladin as that'd get boring. I'm wanting a hybrid that has a good amount of dps with good utility so that they can provide enough dps to not only tank but also keep threat and still be able to heal/buff as needed.
I understand your view on that, you obviously want to play a tank pally, in which case you NEED the dps to be an effective class for holding aggro. I personally want to play the class as a healer/support, so dps doesn't matter as much to me to be an effective class, outside of solo leveling.
At least every single person in the entire game can agree the Paladin needs a fair bit more damage, the only argument to be had, is "how much" more damage.
No i dont talk about encounters i talk about regular quests not Heroic encounters go to the exact spot what i showed on the map.
Pick up some quest the H.encounter mobs are not updated they are weak as in live.
Ok I think I found the spawns you are talking about, and yes those true level 70 spawns are hard to kill quickly with a pseudo-lvl 70 character. I'm still not sure this is an actual problem yet though, its not like I cannot kill them with a character in mid 60's green gear with no particularly helpful side bonuses (like some of the artifacts etc).
That said, is this a problem with the Paladin (which works fine everywhere else I've gone) or is it a problem with those spawns?
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Ok I think I found the spawns you are talking about, and yes those true level 70 spawns are hard to kill quickly with a pseudo-lvl 70 character. I'm still not sure this is an actual problem yet though, its not like I cannot kill them with a character in mid 60's green gear with no particularly helpful side bonuses (like some of the artifacts etc).
That said, is this a problem with the Paladin (which works fine everywhere else I've gone) or is it a problem with those spawns?
I can confirm this, OP is struggling really hard here. On the other hand my, like you called it pseudo-lvl 70, CW without artifacts thrashes them really fast. Tried with DC and HR and it takes just several seconds more. With TR I am playing semi/perma stealth and it's still pretty fast to clear this, well, pretty boring as there is no danger and I am just hacking them to death. GF have similar problems as OP but it's much faster and easier to stay alive (thx to 80% DR on top from shield). Didn't check GWF but I think it will be better experience than GF and worse than rest classes. So yeah, Paladin offers most tedious, slow, boring, frustrating 70 lvl gameplay of all classes so far.
Feedback After today's extensive testing at 70 I am just giving up on Paladin, there are so many bugs and so little time left for mod 6 to come live that it's just pointless.
- we have one-shotting lag fest bugs (virtue only),
- reflect mechanic is broken (must loose huge amounts of hp or drop dead to see any effect, against normal enemies zero or very little damage),
- shift mechanic is broken (unreliable, doesn't trigger after using some powers, damage reduction is added to existing DR poll so in most cases doesn't give any protection as armorpen and debuffs just negates all 80% cap),
- damage scaling is broken (Paladin doing least damage of all classes, something about 1/20th damage of Renegade CW, doesn't have survivability of GF and tank specced TR),
- Paladin has serious problems holding agro,
- Bulwark tree is broken (don't give any utility or bonus threat generation, greatly decreases damage (which doesn't make sense and if it's intended that's just broken by design), compare it to GF protection tree and see how bad it is in compare),
- many feats are broken and don't do anything,
- redundant, similar powers that greatly narrows our choices,
- only support possible in PvP (even capping node is really hard against range classes, mostly because shift mechanic is broken)
- completely unbalanced post 60 gameplay (lvling to 60 is pretty good but after it everything just gets frustrating, it takes ages to kill even trash mobs and try to miss interrupting mob healing skills and you can lock yourself in fight for ridiculous amount of time, difficulty progression here is just too great in Paladin case, or scaling is just plain broken for this class)
I deleted old dusty and rolled a shiny yesterday to get a fresh feel for the "new player" experience with most recent changes already in place.
BUG: (Human Race selected) - Class Selection screen shows Guardian Fighter preview under both Guardian Fighter and Paladin (I know this is probably still on the to-do list, but thought I should mention it anyway)
First Daily power (Divine Judgement) - I bit overpowered on its own: one shot tutorial Boss and Guardian of the Nine (Crown quest) - WAI or not it *did* feel awesome, and I would expect it to deal less and less damage as I level up to tougher bosses. But just thought I should mention it in case it isn't WAI.
I may be mistaken, but my *impression* was that Burning Light was not fully dazing mobs (OR not dazing for more than a second or so), even with a full charge. Before the most recent update - Burning Light was awesome; daze would last 3 or 4 seconds or so - it felt great. But not this time.
SHIFT (Shield or whatever it's called) - does not *appear* work during tutorial with catapult boulders dropping on me, even though Knox told me to press and hold the Shift key; I was knocked onto my derriere, and it was distracting enough that I didn't notice whether I took any damage or not (if not then the knock-back may be WAI I suppose)
FEEDBACK: Main Hand (LMB - Valorous Strike) DPS felt just about right throughout the tutorial and Crown quests. Not too powerful but powerful enough.
Off-Hand shield slam (Radiant Strike) felt utterly pathetic and *really* sluggish. It didn't matter that it is an AOE; it's too slow and deals miserable DPS, and there is a delay when trying to return to main Main Hand weapon (LMB) - so much so that it was just faster to run up to the mobs and handle them individually - any attempt to use Radiant Strike just showed everything down. A lot - through the delay between strikes and the delay after a strike to fire off main hand. The delays were painfully annoying. My immediate thought is to unslot it the moment I get the chance.
As a rule: were I a new player the initial play was fun and engaging, enough to keep me hooked on the game to keep playing a few levels more at this point.
I logged in to my L62 pally today to discover that my weapon is now L64. I can't find another weapon to use anywhere so I can't play my Pally . . .
Also, the shield I was using seems to be bugged. It's a blank icon and when I click on it, it crashes the game . . .
Yah Devs scrfewd up big time, they deleted Items that most people were using, but instead of removing the items, they turns the equipment slots they were in, into a Black Hole of Memory Leaking Crashy doom!
Unfortunately, as of right now, the only answer fromt eh DEV's is to Re-Import your character..
Which for a Paladin is Quite Impossible,
I have a black hole where my Helm, Gloves and Boots should be =(
So I am done Testing Paladin, they will not offer us some form of instant level up to 70 , well then I guess your end game content testing is screwed too.
I made like a 100 respecs this weekend trying every possible combo. Disregarding the fact that Paladins cant wear gloves and helmets right now, I have just one thing to say. Everything the OP brings to the table right now on Preview is very, very weak. On a scale of 1 to 10 based on current patch and tests with my toons, its looking like this:
Paladin Justice Tank - 1
GF (mine is Conq ) - 5
GWF IV Sentinel - 10
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
BUG: Feat - Vengeful judge (Justice tree), Oath of Protection Seems this feat doesn't work in protector's oath. After using Tab key paladin receives protector's buff, but do not receive Judge. Damage isn't increased, cooldowns aren't reduced. At the same time this feat correctly work in Oath of Devotion.
I will be editing this post as I level the paladin, so some of the comments may change over time
Let me start with a desperate plea. DEFINE YOUR TERMS, I BEG YOU. This applies not only to the paladin, but the game in general. Edit: And when I say define, I mean also to standardize terms and usage. As an example, some powers (for various classes) say "allies", others say "you and your allies", but often both phrases seem to mean the same. But not always. This inconsistency is maddening.
What is an ally? Party members? Companions? Your own, other people's? Other players just wandering nearby? Do you count as your own ally? (I'm certainly more friendly and helpful to myself, like an ally would be, than most of the folks out there)
When adding percentages, are you adding a % of the original bonus (or number), or adding a flat number? (E.g., aura of courage adds 1% of max HP as bonus radiant damage, additional points add +10%. Is that a plus 10% flat (total bonus with 2 points now 11% of max HP), or is it an additional tenth of the original bonus (bonus with 2 pts int he ability would be 1.1%). More on the ability later. (I grant that some of this would become apparent after actually spending the points, but knowing this sort of detail BEFORE you end up having to pay for a respec is simply good customer relations. (This is just an example of a poorly worded and ambiguous text for a power/passive.)
Standardizing terms in the game, and having a clear definition across all classes/abilities is crucial for players to understand what they are getting into.
Specific Feedback: So, about the mace. Any person who actually knows about heavily armored combat (plate) can tell you that the absolute best weapon to use is a mace or other heavy bludgeon, simple physics. Maces are good for armored opponents, swords look good and are great for slaughtering peasants and the unarmored. Maces are classic weapons of religious folks, which paladins qualify as. As such, I have ZERO problems with the paladin's default weapon being a mace. That being said, the grip is wrong, as others have mentioned. You're smacking people with it, not officiating a religious ceremony. Think baseball bat (one-handed) for the right idea.
So far, I absolutely agree with many other posters that the damage from Divine Judgement, the daily, is far too high. At present it lists for more damage than I have HP myself, and I've been taking as many HP buff items as I can at low level. I cannot think of any other class that has a daily that lists for more HP than the character has (plenty can do more with adjustments and crits, yes, I'm looking at you, Ice Knife), but they don't typically list that high in my experience. Edit; In review, since the damage is supposedly split between targets the overall output might not need to be lowered, but the maximum it applies to any one target might need to be capped. Edit2: having leveled twice more, I can say that the DJ damage is NOT keeping up with my HP gains, so by level 60, I would expect the damage to be... marginally acceptable? Edit: at lv 35 the damage is still massive, and can basically one shot (95%?) a quest instance boss.
Radiant strike, at-will. I would suggest that even the currently listed 20' blast (radius?) seems too large. I can charge into the center of a fairly spread out spawn, and kill all of them with a few hits (minions, at least), even those enemies using ranged attacks. Perhaps this is intended, but given that the ability implies that it is a melee attack (a lunge) it seems a bit much. Edit: RS's damage by itself (w/o Courage) is rather sad. It still seems too large, but with the damage so low, perhaps that doesn't matter. I find myself still using the ability not as a damage dealer, but for the mobility and the buff.
Aura of Courage is either massively overpowered (if additional points give a flat bonus), or the additional points spent are fairly pathetic (bonus damage is a portion (%) of the original bonus). Edit: Now close to lv 30, AoC is still very helpful in allowing the pally to deal damage. With it, the damage seems acceptable. Without... not so much.
The heals provided by both Divine Call and Sanctuary seem a bit on the weak side at early levels (mid teens). The latter ticks for perhaps 1.25% of max health, and I run out of stamina before I've even gotten 25% of my hp back. EDIT: A direct test of the healing for sanctuary yields that a full stamina bar healed me for 16.6% of my health (I was out of combat with 0 regen, so the only healing I got was from sanctuary, and I held the sanc until it stopped for lack of stamina). My impression is that sanctuary basically does nothing to actually keep me alive, and is just kind of a bonus attached to the damage resistance and cc protection.
The divine call heal is doing about 7% of my total health, which doesn't seem to be enough given the charges and the (effectively) varied cd. Edit: And now, a HUGE disappointment. After choosing oathbound: protection, I find that the divine call no longer heals. This may be understandable (devotion pallys probably don't want to taunt any longer), but is very bad news for any protection paladin hoping to go 'light' spec, as I suggested earlier.
Bug: Smite is still not doing the dot to enemies near the target. I tested this several times, paying close attention to the log. It does damage the direct target with both a burst and the dot. Edit: I have now seen the smite aoe dot show up exactly one time. So, though it is working, I wouldn't say it is consistent. Edit2: As of level 37 and in the protection line, I am still seeing problems with the aoe portion of the smite ability. I don't see any entries in the log for other targets beyond the primary taking damage from the 15s portion of the ability, and this means the debuff portion of the ability is also called into question. I also have not noticed any visual effect to indicate the burn/debuff portion of smite. In fact, going through recent log entries, I do not see any entries for the damage-over-time portion of the ability, even on the primary target. Is this thing working, or what?
In another example of ambiguous text description, the "burn" on the primary target is for 15 seconds. The OoP 'bonus' is that foes affected by the burn are 15% damage debuffed for 3s. So, the 'burn', which the text impllies actually does damage (though I don't see it, typically), last for 15s, but the debuff is only for 3s? Why the difference? Or is the effect refreshed if the other targets are still within 15' of the primary target (and the 15s burn is still going?)? Is this just not logged? Questions, questions, questions.
On paladin damage, I just took part in a 2 paladin slaying (and nobody else) of the green dragon in neverdeath, one level 28 (myself), one level 30. It did take a while (10min+), but make of that what you will.
I'm taking a brief hiatus from leveling beyond 30, pausing before I choose a paragon path, while I wait for the paragon feats to be in. However, a few general comments thus far, and in examining the feat paths.
Though difficult to say at only lv30, the durability of the paladin does seem comparable to that of the gf, though a bit reduced, as can be expected. As far as damage, I'd say you can do acceptable damage if you want to, not great by any means, but workable. I've not seen any real hint of the horrific time-to-kill numbers that others have posted about (minutes to kill a single mob/spawn seems to be hyperbole, being generous). However, the feats (present and projected out), abilities, and my experiences thus far do lead me to believe that the paladin is pretty much what was advertised, a durable support class, with the choice of emphasizing either aspect at paragon choice. As with the gf and dc (2/3 specs, at least), you simply cannot expect stellar damage (or, possibly, even good), but it seems viable.
On Justice. Quite the collection of oddball feats, a mix of self-buff, group buff, and some enemy debuffs, I nonetheless suspect this will be popular due to the damage boost of the capstone.
On Bulwark, I worry here that too many of the feats are essentially duplicates of each other. I do note that the feats have carefully varied names for the abs shields, so I would hope that they at least stack in some fashion. On the face of it, it looks like it will be on par with the gf as far as toughness, but will need careful management of abilities, cds, and temp hp/abs shields to achieve it, something that neverwinter does not easily lend itself to (mostly due to the inability to use the cursor except when you deactivate the ability to move or take actions properly). It would seem to be an utterly wasted line for a support (devotion) paladin.
On Light, I must say this is the most disappointing overall. With so few actual healing abilities (1 daily, 1 encounter, sanctuary (very low value and stamina limited), and divine call (esp w/ the capstone), plus the modified abilities and some of the passives if you choose devotion) it seems this line is far less useful for a protection paladin. The feats are very very focused on healing actions. I expect that the support (devotion) paladin will provide excellent ambient healing, but the ability to heal in major encounters is a little more questionable.
To have one line that is almost, on face value, excluded from use by each paragon path is very disappointing, and though I doubt the paragon feats will change that, perhaps some late changes or clarifications might make things a little more flexible.
Edit: What with the double xp weekend and the paragon feats being in I've finally spent a little more time with the pally. (speaking of which...) BUG: Prior to choosing a paragon path, the paragon feats are still not visible when you look at the potential choices. (I hope this is already fixed, or will be before launch of the module, since I chose a paragon path days ago, then respeced so I could see both feat sets, ending on protect for now)
As of level 35, damage is still quite acceptable as a protection paladin. The loss of the divine call heal is tragic for a potential light spec protect pally, as feared, and so I am forced to lean towards there being only two viable (?) spec choices for protection, bulwark or justice. Imo, this is simply poor design. Sanctuary simply doesn't count as a heal (numbers too low (down to ~ .7% per tick) and effectively a very slow heal given the time it takes to get any appreciable numbers (rapid healing in whose world, might I ask?)). 6/10 feats in the light line deal directly with healing (7/10 if you count DI) With the extremely limited number of heals available to a protection paladin, it will be difficult to get any real value out of the light line, many feats you would take to get to the capstone (which might be an effective heal) will be of little or no value. Why bother?
Edit: (or Bug?) On the subject of the shield/sanctuary. Firstly, wow does it look like I'm hauling around a hunk of a table or an old-style sailing ship. My gf wished for a shield as durable as this one looks. I.e., the lighter looking shields (currently what I remember the gf getting) seem more appropriate for a class whose 'block' (read: sanctuary) is based off a divine blessing, and vice versa (the thick durable shields of the paladin seem better suited for the gf).
That being said, sanctuary has issues. First, as many have noticed, and I continue to observe as well, sanctuary is plagued by unreliability. I push my shift key and hope (pray?) that it works. Sometimes it just takes a while to warm up, so to speak, sometimes all I get is the block stance, sometimes nothing happens at all. Perhaps the neverwinter preview server is just plague by more lag/latency and connectivity issues, but for a tank character, the block being more quick to activate (read: basically instant) is utterly crucial. Something needs to be adjusted here.
More to come (long and getting longer )
Divine Judgement does indeed start out amazing, but by level 60 its on par with things like Ice Knife, and given its really the only damaging daily Pallys get that DPS is appreciated.
Radiant Smite hits about right in my experience. Reasonable damage spread over multiple targets with a relatively slow animation. It can be faster to kill things with single target attacks than Radiant Smite, the real benefit it provides is the buff to all your attacks.
Aura of Courage seems to have the wrong pip bonuses listed. Its definitely not providing a 21% bonus at 3 pips, but its more than a 3% bonus as well. I would have to double check the values on my 62 to be sure.
Totally agree about defining terms. (BTW Ally includes you, you are always your own ally, yes it took me a while to be sure that NWN was following that 4E standard.)
Feedback:
The Auras are great, but how big are they? How big is 30' (or 40' with feat) in the game? In table top 4E determining this is easy, in NWN its nigh on impossible.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I think Circle of Power is a 30' radius, so when you get that you'll be able to see the Aura's range.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Bug: And a big one! Burning Guidance feedback loop.
I've been testing Burning Guidance on the OP. With a Justice feat called Prism, Bond of Virtue and Vow of Emnity active, it causes a crazy feedback loop when there are other allies nearby. I'd place Vow of Emnity on a Target Dummy, activate Bond of Virtue and fire my Daily. One slap with a melee attack triggers the feedback loop where Burning Guidance keeps proccing multiple times a second for massive amounts of damage. The target dummies nearly instantly go to 0 HP, and the entire instance slows to a crawl. It's much, much worse than Astral Seal + Shared Burdens + Burning Guidance.
I honestly believe Prism is the culprit in this. My allies don't have to be actually damaged and then healed to make Prism trigger on them, thus proccing Burning Guidance. Suggested fix: Don't make Prism trigger on allies that are not actually damaged.
Bug: Bonds of Virtue and Flash of Light
The cooldown reducing Justice feat Flash of Light 1) Always procs. It never seems do the 25% chance check; And 2) It procs every second on all nearby allies when Bonds of Virtue is active and no other skills are used. Effect: Allies in range have their cooldowns reset every two to three seconds.
Bug: Radiant Champion
The movement speed increase from Radiant Champion seems to trigger off both Allies and Enemies alike, and stacks multiple times with multiple Oathbound Paladins in range. Especially the buff in concert with Swift Flash creates a huge speedboost, allowing an OP to infinitely kite enemies around without ever running the risk of getting caught
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
Bug: And a big one! Burning Guidance feedback loop.
I've been testing Burning Guidance on the OP. With a Justice feat called Prism, Bond of Virtue and Vow of Emnity active, it causes a crazy feedback loop when there are other allies nearby. I'd place Vow of Emnity on a Target Dummy, activate Bond of Virtue and fire my Daily. One slap with a melee attack triggers the feedback loop where Burning Guidance keeps proccing multiple times a second for massive amounts of damage. The target dummies nearly instantly go to 0 HP, and the entire instance slows to a crawl. It's much, much worse than Astral Seal + Shared Burdens + Burning Guidance.
I honestly believe Prism is the culprit in this. My allies don't have to be actually damaged and then healed to make Prism trigger on them, thus proccing Burning Guidance. Suggested fix: Don't make Prism trigger on allies that are not actually damaged.
Bug: Bonds of Virtue and Flash of Light
The cooldown reducing Justice feat Flash of Light 1) Always procs. It never seems do the 25% chance check; And 2) It procs every second on all nearby allies when Bonds of Virtue is active and no other skills are used. Effect: Allies in range have their cooldowns reset every two to three seconds.
Bug: Radiant Champion
The movement speed increase from Radiant Champion seems to trigger off both Allies and Enemies alike, and stacks multiple times with multiple Oathbound Paladins in range. Especially the buff in concert with Swift Flash creates a huge speedboost, allowing an OP to infinitely kite enemies around without ever running the risk of getting caught
yoyu should also post that in the Bugs forum, thats a Game Breaking Bug, Burning Guidance has been issue in almost every single mod lol
Temptation SW used to be able to crash the server with 400 processes per second since every time you damage someone, you heal yourself and your team, on a SW meant that no matter what you attacked it was dead in a second
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highjusticarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0
edited March 2015
I think AoC takes the 1% of your HP and adds that as damage. Each new level adds 10% of that number to the damage.
IE... if you have 5K HP you would add 50 damage to attacks. +10% of that would be 55 damage.
I haven't sat down to calculate the numbers to see if that is actually the way it happens, but that is the way it reads.
Well I checked on the combat dummies and with ArP 29 (:)) and got 1.19% damage from Aura of Courage with just a Valiant strike.
There was no change when using Divine Call.
After procing Radiant with Radiant Strike it jumped to 1.26%.
So a couple of things seem apparent, it is 1% plus .1% for 1 pip, and the Aura is affected by things that boost (or presumably decrease) our damage.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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mrdraqoMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited March 2015
OP - died before they arrived in live shard: 1 no dps, 2 no party buff-debuff, 3 I do not understandparty role . Its my opinion I would like to be wrong. I am waiting because I want to play it but at the moment it is masochizm.:(
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darkstarcrashMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,382Arc User
OP - died before they arrived in live shard: 1 no dps, 2 no party buff-debuff, 3 I do not understandparty role . Its my opinion I would like to be wrong. I am waiting because I want to play it but at the moment it is masochizm.:(
1. No dps -- I agree with you here; unless you take the Justice capstone OPs will do very low damage (Devotion OPs especially).
2. No party buff/debuff? That's what paladins are all about:
Decrease damage taken by allies: Sanctuary, Banishment (Devo), Aura of Protection (Prot), Shield of Faith..
Increase Temp HPs to allies: Templar's Wrath (Devo)
Cleanse CC effects on allies: Cleansing Touch
Increase stats to allies: Oath of Devotion (whenever you heal allies), Aura of Gifts (Light feat tree)
Increase Recharge Reduction to allies: Aura of Wisdom, Flash of Light (Justice tree), Radiant Charge (Justice tree)
Increase Incoming Healing (boosting regen and LS) to allies: Aura of Restoration (Devo)
Increase damage done by allies: Aura of Courage, Aura of Vengeance, Aura of Wrath (Prot - as your HPs decrease)
Increase damage taken by foes: Bane
Decrease damage done by foes: Aura of Truth, Smite (Prot), Bane
Except for Bane, all of these buffs are AoEs.
3. Do not understand party role? Devotion OPs are healers, an alternative to Virtuous/Faithful DCs in dungeons. Protection OPs are tanks, an alternative to GFs in dungeons. That seems quite clear.
You seem to not understand. No amount of Pally's defense buffs would ever compete with Knight's Valor. No amount of Pally's healing and temp HP would ever compete with DC. All these things you mentioned like increased healing, temp hp, decreased damage done by foes - there are already two classes that do that BETTER, while providing DAMAGE buffs in addition.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
You seem to not understand. No amount of Pally's defense buffs would ever compete with Knight's Valor. No amount of Pally's healing and temp HP would ever compete with DC. All these things you mentioned like increased healing, temp hp, decreased damage done by foes - there are already two classes that do that BETTER, while providing DAMAGE buffs in addition.
Do you really think GF will ever slot KV agan with 20-30% dr w/o regeneration or at least 30 % LS?
Comments
Well, it is supposed to be a support class after all which in of itself is really lame as paladins shouldn't be a support class.
Now while I like the class mechanics of paladins so far, I will admit some of the skills are pretty bad. (Thankfully only a few so far.) And the dps is "atrociously" bad, I don't want it to be a dps class, but even I admit it would be a hell of a grind to level one without being one of the game's many wallet warriors. And finally, the class is really crappy at absolutely everything till level 30, it can neither tank, healer, dps, or support worth a **** till it gets an oath. Most classes are sub-par before 30, but the paladin is downright garbage before level 30, due to skills you get before 30 being absolute trash until you unlock their upgraded oath powers. Before level 30 he shouldn't be called a paladin, he should be called "Some guy with a mace." And that is a issue.
Its not about to make paladin DPS class .
But pls before you say somthing go out to well of dragons to kill 1 group of mobs take more then 8 min if you can interrupt the "drink potion " .
End game gear conq GF need also 3-5 min to kill 1 group of mobs those things are not normal CW / TR / HR /SW need 10-20 sec .
PPL give at least honest feedback i dont want to do 1-2 hours to spen on 1 zone cuz you cant see what is obliviously wrong with paladin.
Agan pls go here with your paladin kill some mobs if you even can .
Then if you can do it in resonable time you can post us some video to to proof we can make daly quest in resonable time.
But I also had mostly green gear at lvl 61-64, a lvl 70 blue main hand and two green artifacts. I'd like to see how a competently geared Paladin would do, although I'm not sure even that would be enough.
Like I've said before, I'm fine with OP's dealing the least damage of the classes and being good at support but their damage is lagging too far behind.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I feel like a Paladin ought to be able to do something when holding shift. GF at least has aggravating strike and shieldslam, but the Paladin just sits there with Shield up and a ring. It's very unsatisfying.
I killed all 3 spawns, plus 3 others at the area indicated in the map in a timely enough manner, the only thing that slowed me down was messing up one of the Blue guys with the shield. Certainly nothing stood out in how long it took given how badly geared the character is and how low level it is compared to the zone.
I'm running Relentless Avenger (1 pip), Templar's Wrath, Burning Light, Aura of Courage, Aura of Radiance with Shielding Strike and Radiant Strike as at wills and Divine Judgement and Lay on Hands as dailies (only use Lay on the white Mage companion) with 6752 power and a 23% crit chance. Con 25, Wis 21, Cha 19.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
No i dont talk about encounters i talk about regular quests not Heroic encounters go to the exact spot what i showed on the map.
Pick up some quest the H.encounter mobs are not updated they are weak as in live.
Paladin IS NOT a support class, what we got is a CLERIC, Paladin has to kick *** and smite evil, while inspiring his team, this one does not, because its a cleric - a pure bland support
I`m not sure but probably that feat don`t work. I didn`t notice any slow or dmg boost effect on enemies.
BUG: Feat - Radiant Champion
Increase cooldowns by 5% instead of reducting them.
Screen:
If you had read all of my post and not just skimmed the first line or two you would have seen I agree with you, the class DOES have too little dps, I just don't want it to be stripped of all it's interesting support skills to be given godmode dps like all the other classes have recieved, even the **** cleric in this game is nothing but dps, DPS, DPS!!!!. I'm sick of pure dps classes, EVERY other class is now dps, followed by some sort of subclass, well except control wizard, that class is raw dps coated in dps, dps sprinkled on top, with a final dps glaze. They should just give the **** control wizard a literal skill called "you instantly die" they can activate at will with left click.
I can't argue with you completely, as I think the cleric should be the support class the paladin currently is, and the paladin should be the overpowered dps godmode that the cleric currently is and that everyone currently wants.
I don't really want a full dps paladin as that'd get boring. I'm wanting a hybrid that has a good amount of dps with good utility so that they can provide enough dps to not only tank but also keep threat and still be able to heal/buff as needed.
I understand your view on that, you obviously want to play a tank pally, in which case you NEED the dps to be an effective class for holding aggro. I personally want to play the class as a healer/support, so dps doesn't matter as much to me to be an effective class, outside of solo leveling.
At least every single person in the entire game can agree the Paladin needs a fair bit more damage, the only argument to be had, is "how much" more damage.
Ok I think I found the spawns you are talking about, and yes those true level 70 spawns are hard to kill quickly with a pseudo-lvl 70 character. I'm still not sure this is an actual problem yet though, its not like I cannot kill them with a character in mid 60's green gear with no particularly helpful side bonuses (like some of the artifacts etc).
That said, is this a problem with the Paladin (which works fine everywhere else I've gone) or is it a problem with those spawns?
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Feedback
After today's extensive testing at 70 I am just giving up on Paladin, there are so many bugs and so little time left for mod 6 to come live that it's just pointless.
- we have one-shotting lag fest bugs (virtue only),
- reflect mechanic is broken (must loose huge amounts of hp or drop dead to see any effect, against normal enemies zero or very little damage),
- shift mechanic is broken (unreliable, doesn't trigger after using some powers, damage reduction is added to existing DR poll so in most cases doesn't give any protection as armorpen and debuffs just negates all 80% cap),
- damage scaling is broken (Paladin doing least damage of all classes, something about 1/20th damage of Renegade CW, doesn't have survivability of GF and tank specced TR),
- Paladin has serious problems holding agro,
- Bulwark tree is broken (don't give any utility or bonus threat generation, greatly decreases damage (which doesn't make sense and if it's intended that's just broken by design), compare it to GF protection tree and see how bad it is in compare),
- many feats are broken and don't do anything,
- redundant, similar powers that greatly narrows our choices,
- only support possible in PvP (even capping node is really hard against range classes, mostly because shift mechanic is broken)
- completely unbalanced post 60 gameplay (lvling to 60 is pretty good but after it everything just gets frustrating, it takes ages to kill even trash mobs and try to miss interrupting mob healing skills and you can lock yourself in fight for ridiculous amount of time, difficulty progression here is just too great in Paladin case, or scaling is just plain broken for this class)
BUG:
(Human Race selected) - Class Selection screen shows Guardian Fighter preview under both Guardian Fighter and Paladin (I know this is probably still on the to-do list, but thought I should mention it anyway)
First Daily power (Divine Judgement) - I bit overpowered on its own: one shot tutorial Boss and Guardian of the Nine (Crown quest) - WAI or not it *did* feel awesome, and I would expect it to deal less and less damage as I level up to tougher bosses. But just thought I should mention it in case it isn't WAI.
I may be mistaken, but my *impression* was that Burning Light was not fully dazing mobs (OR not dazing for more than a second or so), even with a full charge. Before the most recent update - Burning Light was awesome; daze would last 3 or 4 seconds or so - it felt great. But not this time.
SHIFT (Shield or whatever it's called) - does not *appear* work during tutorial with catapult boulders dropping on me, even though Knox told me to press and hold the Shift key; I was knocked onto my derriere, and it was distracting enough that I didn't notice whether I took any damage or not (if not then the knock-back may be WAI I suppose)
FEEDBACK:
Main Hand (LMB - Valorous Strike) DPS felt just about right throughout the tutorial and Crown quests. Not too powerful but powerful enough.
Off-Hand shield slam (Radiant Strike) felt utterly pathetic and *really* sluggish. It didn't matter that it is an AOE; it's too slow and deals miserable DPS, and there is a delay when trying to return to main Main Hand weapon (LMB) - so much so that it was just faster to run up to the mobs and handle them individually - any attempt to use Radiant Strike just showed everything down. A lot - through the delay between strikes and the delay after a strike to fire off main hand. The delays were painfully annoying. My immediate thought is to unslot it the moment I get the chance.
As a rule: were I a new player the initial play was fun and engaging, enough to keep me hooked on the game to keep playing a few levels more at this point.
Yah Devs scrfewd up big time, they deleted Items that most people were using, but instead of removing the items, they turns the equipment slots they were in, into a Black Hole of Memory Leaking Crashy doom!
Unfortunately, as of right now, the only answer fromt eh DEV's is to Re-Import your character..
Which for a Paladin is Quite Impossible,
I have a black hole where my Helm, Gloves and Boots should be =(
So I am done Testing Paladin, they will not offer us some form of instant level up to 70 , well then I guess your end game content testing is screwed too.
I made like a 100 respecs this weekend trying every possible combo. Disregarding the fact that Paladins cant wear gloves and helmets right now, I have just one thing to say. Everything the OP brings to the table right now on Preview is very, very weak. On a scale of 1 to 10 based on current patch and tests with my toons, its looking like this:
Paladin Justice Tank - 1
GF (mine is Conq ) - 5
GWF IV Sentinel - 10
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Seems this feat doesn't work in protector's oath. After using Tab key paladin receives protector's buff, but do not receive Judge. Damage isn't increased, cooldowns aren't reduced. At the same time this feat correctly work in Oath of Devotion.
Let me start with a desperate plea. DEFINE YOUR TERMS, I BEG YOU. This applies not only to the paladin, but the game in general. Edit: And when I say define, I mean also to standardize terms and usage. As an example, some powers (for various classes) say "allies", others say "you and your allies", but often both phrases seem to mean the same. But not always. This inconsistency is maddening.
What is an ally? Party members? Companions? Your own, other people's? Other players just wandering nearby? Do you count as your own ally? (I'm certainly more friendly and helpful to myself, like an ally would be, than most of the folks out there)
When adding percentages, are you adding a % of the original bonus (or number), or adding a flat number? (E.g., aura of courage adds 1% of max HP as bonus radiant damage, additional points add +10%. Is that a plus 10% flat (total bonus with 2 points now 11% of max HP), or is it an additional tenth of the original bonus (bonus with 2 pts int he ability would be 1.1%). More on the ability later. (I grant that some of this would become apparent after actually spending the points, but knowing this sort of detail BEFORE you end up having to pay for a respec is simply good customer relations. (This is just an example of a poorly worded and ambiguous text for a power/passive.)
Standardizing terms in the game, and having a clear definition across all classes/abilities is crucial for players to understand what they are getting into.
Specific Feedback:
So, about the mace. Any person who actually knows about heavily armored combat (plate) can tell you that the absolute best weapon to use is a mace or other heavy bludgeon, simple physics. Maces are good for armored opponents, swords look good and are great for slaughtering peasants and the unarmored. Maces are classic weapons of religious folks, which paladins qualify as. As such, I have ZERO problems with the paladin's default weapon being a mace. That being said, the grip is wrong, as others have mentioned. You're smacking people with it, not officiating a religious ceremony. Think baseball bat (one-handed) for the right idea.
So far, I absolutely agree with many other posters that the damage from Divine Judgement, the daily, is far too high. At present it lists for more damage than I have HP myself, and I've been taking as many HP buff items as I can at low level. I cannot think of any other class that has a daily that lists for more HP than the character has (plenty can do more with adjustments and crits, yes, I'm looking at you, Ice Knife), but they don't typically list that high in my experience. Edit; In review, since the damage is supposedly split between targets the overall output might not need to be lowered, but the maximum it applies to any one target might need to be capped. Edit2: having leveled twice more, I can say that the DJ damage is NOT keeping up with my HP gains, so by level 60, I would expect the damage to be... marginally acceptable? Edit: at lv 35 the damage is still massive, and can basically one shot (95%?) a quest instance boss.
Radiant strike, at-will. I would suggest that even the currently listed 20' blast (radius?) seems too large. I can charge into the center of a fairly spread out spawn, and kill all of them with a few hits (minions, at least), even those enemies using ranged attacks. Perhaps this is intended, but given that the ability implies that it is a melee attack (a lunge) it seems a bit much. Edit: RS's damage by itself (w/o Courage) is rather sad. It still seems too large, but with the damage so low, perhaps that doesn't matter. I find myself still using the ability not as a damage dealer, but for the mobility and the buff.
Aura of Courage is either massively overpowered (if additional points give a flat bonus), or the additional points spent are fairly pathetic (bonus damage is a portion (%) of the original bonus). Edit: Now close to lv 30, AoC is still very helpful in allowing the pally to deal damage. With it, the damage seems acceptable. Without... not so much.
The heals provided by both Divine Call and Sanctuary seem a bit on the weak side at early levels (mid teens). The latter ticks for perhaps 1.25% of max health, and I run out of stamina before I've even gotten 25% of my hp back. EDIT: A direct test of the healing for sanctuary yields that a full stamina bar healed me for 16.6% of my health (I was out of combat with 0 regen, so the only healing I got was from sanctuary, and I held the sanc until it stopped for lack of stamina). My impression is that sanctuary basically does nothing to actually keep me alive, and is just kind of a bonus attached to the damage resistance and cc protection.
The divine call heal is doing about 7% of my total health, which doesn't seem to be enough given the charges and the (effectively) varied cd. Edit: And now, a HUGE disappointment. After choosing oathbound: protection, I find that the divine call no longer heals. This may be understandable (devotion pallys probably don't want to taunt any longer), but is very bad news for any protection paladin hoping to go 'light' spec, as I suggested earlier.
Bug:
Smite is still not doing the dot to enemies near the target. I tested this several times, paying close attention to the log. It does damage the direct target with both a burst and the dot. Edit: I have now seen the smite aoe dot show up exactly one time. So, though it is working, I wouldn't say it is consistent. Edit2: As of level 37 and in the protection line, I am still seeing problems with the aoe portion of the smite ability. I don't see any entries in the log for other targets beyond the primary taking damage from the 15s portion of the ability, and this means the debuff portion of the ability is also called into question. I also have not noticed any visual effect to indicate the burn/debuff portion of smite. In fact, going through recent log entries, I do not see any entries for the damage-over-time portion of the ability, even on the primary target. Is this thing working, or what?
In another example of ambiguous text description, the "burn" on the primary target is for 15 seconds. The OoP 'bonus' is that foes affected by the burn are 15% damage debuffed for 3s. So, the 'burn', which the text impllies actually does damage (though I don't see it, typically), last for 15s, but the debuff is only for 3s? Why the difference? Or is the effect refreshed if the other targets are still within 15' of the primary target (and the 15s burn is still going?)? Is this just not logged? Questions, questions, questions.
On paladin damage, I just took part in a 2 paladin slaying (and nobody else) of the green dragon in neverdeath, one level 28 (myself), one level 30. It did take a while (10min+), but make of that what you will.
I'm taking a brief hiatus from leveling beyond 30, pausing before I choose a paragon path, while I wait for the paragon feats to be in. However, a few general comments thus far, and in examining the feat paths.
Though difficult to say at only lv30, the durability of the paladin does seem comparable to that of the gf, though a bit reduced, as can be expected. As far as damage, I'd say you can do acceptable damage if you want to, not great by any means, but workable. I've not seen any real hint of the horrific time-to-kill numbers that others have posted about (minutes to kill a single mob/spawn seems to be hyperbole, being generous). However, the feats (present and projected out), abilities, and my experiences thus far do lead me to believe that the paladin is pretty much what was advertised, a durable support class, with the choice of emphasizing either aspect at paragon choice. As with the gf and dc (2/3 specs, at least), you simply cannot expect stellar damage (or, possibly, even good), but it seems viable.
On Justice. Quite the collection of oddball feats, a mix of self-buff, group buff, and some enemy debuffs, I nonetheless suspect this will be popular due to the damage boost of the capstone.
On Bulwark, I worry here that too many of the feats are essentially duplicates of each other. I do note that the feats have carefully varied names for the abs shields, so I would hope that they at least stack in some fashion. On the face of it, it looks like it will be on par with the gf as far as toughness, but will need careful management of abilities, cds, and temp hp/abs shields to achieve it, something that neverwinter does not easily lend itself to (mostly due to the inability to use the cursor except when you deactivate the ability to move or take actions properly). It would seem to be an utterly wasted line for a support (devotion) paladin.
On Light, I must say this is the most disappointing overall. With so few actual healing abilities (1 daily, 1 encounter, sanctuary (very low value and stamina limited), and divine call (esp w/ the capstone), plus the modified abilities and some of the passives if you choose devotion) it seems this line is far less useful for a protection paladin. The feats are very very focused on healing actions. I expect that the support (devotion) paladin will provide excellent ambient healing, but the ability to heal in major encounters is a little more questionable.
To have one line that is almost, on face value, excluded from use by each paragon path is very disappointing, and though I doubt the paragon feats will change that, perhaps some late changes or clarifications might make things a little more flexible.
Edit: What with the double xp weekend and the paragon feats being in I've finally spent a little more time with the pally. (speaking of which...)
BUG: Prior to choosing a paragon path, the paragon feats are still not visible when you look at the potential choices. (I hope this is already fixed, or will be before launch of the module, since I chose a paragon path days ago, then respeced so I could see both feat sets, ending on protect for now)
As of level 35, damage is still quite acceptable as a protection paladin. The loss of the divine call heal is tragic for a potential light spec protect pally, as feared, and so I am forced to lean towards there being only two viable (?) spec choices for protection, bulwark or justice. Imo, this is simply poor design. Sanctuary simply doesn't count as a heal (numbers too low (down to ~ .7% per tick) and effectively a very slow heal given the time it takes to get any appreciable numbers (rapid healing in whose world, might I ask?)). 6/10 feats in the light line deal directly with healing (7/10 if you count DI) With the extremely limited number of heals available to a protection paladin, it will be difficult to get any real value out of the light line, many feats you would take to get to the capstone (which might be an effective heal) will be of little or no value. Why bother?
Edit: (or Bug?) On the subject of the shield/sanctuary. Firstly, wow does it look like I'm hauling around a hunk of a table or an old-style sailing ship. My gf wished for a shield as durable as this one looks. I.e., the lighter looking shields (currently what I remember the gf getting) seem more appropriate for a class whose 'block' (read: sanctuary) is based off a divine blessing, and vice versa (the thick durable shields of the paladin seem better suited for the gf).
That being said, sanctuary has issues. First, as many have noticed, and I continue to observe as well, sanctuary is plagued by unreliability. I push my shift key and hope (pray?) that it works. Sometimes it just takes a while to warm up, so to speak, sometimes all I get is the block stance, sometimes nothing happens at all. Perhaps the neverwinter preview server is just plague by more lag/latency and connectivity issues, but for a tank character, the block being more quick to activate (read: basically instant) is utterly crucial. Something needs to be adjusted here.
More to come (long and getting longer
Radiant Smite hits about right in my experience. Reasonable damage spread over multiple targets with a relatively slow animation. It can be faster to kill things with single target attacks than Radiant Smite, the real benefit it provides is the buff to all your attacks.
Aura of Courage seems to have the wrong pip bonuses listed. Its definitely not providing a 21% bonus at 3 pips, but its more than a 3% bonus as well. I would have to double check the values on my 62 to be sure.
Totally agree about defining terms. (BTW Ally includes you, you are always your own ally, yes it took me a while to be sure that NWN was following that 4E standard.)
Feedback:
The Auras are great, but how big are they? How big is 30' (or 40' with feat) in the game? In table top 4E determining this is easy, in NWN its nigh on impossible.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I've been testing Burning Guidance on the OP. With a Justice feat called Prism, Bond of Virtue and Vow of Emnity active, it causes a crazy feedback loop when there are other allies nearby. I'd place Vow of Emnity on a Target Dummy, activate Bond of Virtue and fire my Daily. One slap with a melee attack triggers the feedback loop where Burning Guidance keeps proccing multiple times a second for massive amounts of damage. The target dummies nearly instantly go to 0 HP, and the entire instance slows to a crawl. It's much, much worse than Astral Seal + Shared Burdens + Burning Guidance.
I honestly believe Prism is the culprit in this. My allies don't have to be actually damaged and then healed to make Prism trigger on them, thus proccing Burning Guidance. Suggested fix: Don't make Prism trigger on allies that are not actually damaged.
Bug: Bonds of Virtue and Flash of Light
The cooldown reducing Justice feat Flash of Light 1) Always procs. It never seems do the 25% chance check; And 2) It procs every second on all nearby allies when Bonds of Virtue is active and no other skills are used. Effect: Allies in range have their cooldowns reset every two to three seconds.
Bug: Radiant Champion
The movement speed increase from Radiant Champion seems to trigger off both Allies and Enemies alike, and stacks multiple times with multiple Oathbound Paladins in range. Especially the buff in concert with Swift Flash creates a huge speedboost, allowing an OP to infinitely kite enemies around without ever running the risk of getting caught
yoyu should also post that in the Bugs forum, thats a Game Breaking Bug, Burning Guidance has been issue in almost every single mod lol
Temptation SW used to be able to crash the server with 400 processes per second since every time you damage someone, you heal yourself and your team, on a SW meant that no matter what you attacked it was dead in a second
IE... if you have 5K HP you would add 50 damage to attacks. +10% of that would be 55 damage.
I haven't sat down to calculate the numbers to see if that is actually the way it happens, but that is the way it reads.
There was no change when using Divine Call.
After procing Radiant with Radiant Strike it jumped to 1.26%.
So a couple of things seem apparent, it is 1% plus .1% for 1 pip, and the Aura is affected by things that boost (or presumably decrease) our damage.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
1. No dps -- I agree with you here; unless you take the Justice capstone OPs will do very low damage (Devotion OPs especially).
2. No party buff/debuff? That's what paladins are all about:
Decrease damage taken by allies: Sanctuary, Banishment (Devo), Aura of Protection (Prot), Shield of Faith..
Increase Temp HPs to allies: Templar's Wrath (Devo)
Cleanse CC effects on allies: Cleansing Touch
Increase stats to allies: Oath of Devotion (whenever you heal allies), Aura of Gifts (Light feat tree)
Increase Recharge Reduction to allies: Aura of Wisdom, Flash of Light (Justice tree), Radiant Charge (Justice tree)
Increase Incoming Healing (boosting regen and LS) to allies: Aura of Restoration (Devo)
Increase damage done by allies: Aura of Courage, Aura of Vengeance, Aura of Wrath (Prot - as your HPs decrease)
Increase damage taken by foes: Bane
Decrease damage done by foes: Aura of Truth, Smite (Prot), Bane
Except for Bane, all of these buffs are AoEs.
3. Do not understand party role? Devotion OPs are healers, an alternative to Virtuous/Faithful DCs in dungeons. Protection OPs are tanks, an alternative to GFs in dungeons. That seems quite clear.
You seem to not understand. No amount of Pally's defense buffs would ever compete with Knight's Valor. No amount of Pally's healing and temp HP would ever compete with DC. All these things you mentioned like increased healing, temp hp, decreased damage done by foes - there are already two classes that do that BETTER, while providing DAMAGE buffs in addition.
Do you really think GF will ever slot KV agan with 20-30% dr w/o regeneration or at least 30 % LS?