Right now? None other than to have some fun. I'll work on some new foundry stuff, enjoy trying out other people's foundries and have a good time helping guildies reach their goals.
Depending on the answer to the question above (and how all these other questionable changes will work out) I'll either try to enjoy what mod6 has to offer, or retire my characters and stick to the foundry world. I'm definitely NOT going to get more artifact gear on more characters, that's for sure.
And that's a good goal to have. I'm pretty eager to see how paladin will turn out, stats changes, not to mention lv 25 professions and more... It's a good time to change some of the old content and modernize it, because who uses artificing crafted weapons anymore? I would rather use a crafted weapon that binds (require 25 crafting to make) with two enchant slots(maybe a set bonus? :P) like jewelcrafting than dealing with 4.3m RP as the system stands now.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I'd like to add my support to ironzerg's proposal while changes are being made and/or considered. I think gaining RP as experience could extend the lifespan of this game by softening a toxic element which exists as impoverished players and those who park their alts because it's too expensive to gear them.
The refining interface could also use an overhaul for the sake usability. I won't express how unpleasant it is to drag stacks of rank 1 enchants, 5 at a time, into a high ranked artifact/enchantment as things are now.
Give me a bucket that refines everything we drop into it in one shot at a refine station like we have for salvaging. Or sell a magic bag (like a penny roll - which are free from the bank, mind you) in the WB that will crunch everything inside when consumed.
Remembering this game is free to play, and some goals are out of our reach unless we dump money on the game.
If you make the content easy the wallet warriors will have resentment because even the casual players will be running around with legendaries, the game was not designed for this to happen.
This should never be the case. Even on a F2P model, you should never feel that content is out of reach unless you pay. That is the WRONG way to make a game and Neverwinter has even proven it.
Back before any module released this game was a cash cow! It also had zero artifact items and everything was BoE and farmable.
Now? We have SO many BoP things and all the best gear needs to pay to level it up.
Noone is asking for it to be too easy, but there needs to be a reasonable farm rate on things like artifacts and artifact equipment. There currently is none. Even if they start THROWING RP at us, it would take a massive massive change for this to even be feasible. Take for instance if they gave 100% drop chance a Black Opal in EVERY DD chest. Wow, that sounds really good right?
Well lets do the math then....
4,600,000 RP for ONE orange item. We have 4 available to us atm so easily over 18mil RP. 10,000 RP per run (well even add an extra 4k! and pretend we get some peridots and aquamarines for good measure.) 18,000,000 / 14,000 = 1,285 DD runs. Think that sounds reasonable? Lets say you ran TEN DD runs A DAY!
Thats 128 DAYS straight, running 10 DD runs A DAY. That is NOT reasonable.
Even if you added a blood ruby (50k RP - which they would NEVER do) as a guaranteed drop, and lets say your running alot of dragon hoard enchants and can get another 10kRP! Lets just shoot the moon here. Thats 60k RP a run.
18,000,000 / 60,000 = Still 300 DD runs. Now that seems MORE reasonable. Keep in mind though this was estimating that you earn 10k RP each run through dragon hoard AND they GUARANTEED a Blood Ruby (50k RP) each DD.
See how far off they are? Its just silly and we all know they would never hand these out for free like that. Now they might make it a CHANCE to get a blood ruby, and might make it near guarantee that you get atleast a black opal, but the math above shows that still to be unreasonable.
As much as I would like for RP to just be an increased drop. They would honestly have to go in and increase the RP on each item like 400% and make them drop like candy for that to be plausible. I just dont see it happening.
They might start giving out more aquamarines and more black Opals but its just not gonna cut it.
In the end the ONLY way I see possible to really "wash away" the filth that was created with this poorly implemented RP system is to use an EXP -> RP system.
They can hand out more RP if they want, they can reduce prices if they want, but allowing players to play the game and earn RP via playing the game, thats the only way I see it working out.
This EXP-> RP should be able to be used for ALL RP (enchants, weapon enchants, artifacts, arti-equipment). Think how long it takes to get 250,000 EXP. Its not easy. Thats what it takes to level up with "overflow" exp right now. That is LESS than it takes to take an artifact item from 59->60 (about 360k RP).
So its not as if the EXP-> RP system is a "handout" by anymeans. It just makes things MUCH more attainable and it lessens the gear differential from PUGS to "BIS" characters - which is what is needed in PVP ALOT!.
If they want to incentive the right things, make daily dungeon quests worth ALOT more EXP (like 20k or 30k EXP) Now its much more profitable to run dungeons than just farm dailiy quests.
The only other thing to watch out for would be Azure utility or double EXP or EXP boosters. So im not sure how you want to handle that. Maybe those only boost your real EXP and not RP.
Then you can STILL have double RP events for people using stones and what not, because that would NOT add to EXP->RP.
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atomicbastardMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 23Arc User
edited January 2015
It would be great to find RP stones on boss in dungeons:
CN - VT - MC - DV: sapphire,black opals, blood ruby on bosses, and 5% chance to drop a brilliant diamond in the final chest
Others T2 : resonnance stones(green), aquamarines, sapphire and 10%chance to drop a black opal in the final chest
T1: white pearls, peridots& resonnance stones ( grey) and 15%chance to drop a sapphire in the final chest
Goldsellers couldn't go in an instance with their bots, and players will spend more time in all dungeons.
A big up to ironzerg with his very good idea to link RP to the xp !!
If that would be too complicated to implement though, the idea of dropping refinement stones from dailies and dungeons would help a lot.
I think it could easily be implemented actually. They already built the "overflow" EXP process. I really dont think it would take much time to code at all.
I also think the rate at which you earn EXP is approximately the correct rate for earning RP when you look at the math of it all.
As I have mentioned before. Even if you look at 60.
1 daily quest = 4,300 EXP.
It takes 4,600,000 RP for 1 orange. This means it takes an equivalent of nearly 1070 quests to give you enough RP for ONE orange item.
Just looking at my GWF, I have unlocked 7 "power points" which is 14 additional levels of EXP worth at 250,000 per level.
So in all the time they have implemented Overflow EXP I would have ONLY earned 3,500,000. That isnt enough enough for ONE orange item with just EXP->RP.
I think this is more than reasonable. This, I would almost guarantee, would actually INCREASE sales because now players would feel they are so close to actually getting the item, the cost to cross the finish line seems reasonable. Versus right now, the people that say its "fine" or a "long grind" (you know what I mean) have NO clue that about HALF the cost of the orange item is just leveling it from 50-60.
Well these "casuals" will not pay and have no idea if they want an orange they WILL have to pay.
Overall I see no real liability with the EXP->RP proposal. I think its genius and it will honestly solve the BIGGEST problem this game has: lack of RP.
The ONLY thing I would look into would be (as mentioned before) EXP boosters and double EXP events. Which honestly I think these should be removed as its already too easy to level to max anyways. So maybe changing those to a 25% boosted EXP events from now on is much more reasonable.
Double RP events could still work JUST off stones and not the EXP RP earned. If that makes sense.
TLDR: EXP->RP is a MUST if this game is to re-birth itself and grow its population.
I agree that the exp - > RP system is the only way to go, definitly, I would be much more enthusiastic playing the game in general if this system is implemented, currently I just completely gave up the idea of ever being BiS. It just feels completely out of my reach as things are now, buying RP is not an option (600$ for one artifact...?). The exp -> RP system would help that alot. It's a bot proof (bots can't sell exp or exp boosters) So cryptic gets the monopoly of the exp/rp market, and it's not a free handout. You can still power your artifact with blood rubies, or farm your way to the top at a faster rate than others with exp boosters. Sounds like a good deal to me.
+1 to ironzerg and the others who thought of this idea
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I think it could easily be implemented actually. They already built the "overflow" EXP process. I really dont think it would take much time to code at all.
I also think the rate at which you earn EXP is approximately the correct rate for earning RP when you look at the math of it all.
As I have mentioned before. Even if you look at 60.
1 daily quest = 4,300 EXP.
It takes 4,600,000 RP for 1 orange. This means it takes an equivalent of nearly 1070 quests to give you enough RP for ONE orange item.
Just looking at my GWF, I have unlocked 7 "power points" which is 14 additional levels of EXP worth at 250,000 per level.
So in all the time they have implemented Overflow EXP I would have ONLY earned 3,500,000. That isnt enough enough for ONE orange item with just EXP->RP.
I think this is more than reasonable. This, I would almost guarantee, would actually INCREASE sales because now players would feel they are so close to actually getting the item, the cost to cross the finish line seems reasonable. Versus right now, the people that say its "fine" or a "long grind" (you know what I mean) have NO clue that about HALF the cost of the orange item is just leveling it from 50-60.
Well these "casuals" will not pay and have no idea if they want an orange they WILL have to pay.
Overall I see no real liability with the EXP->RP proposal. I think its genius and it will honestly solve the BIGGEST problem this game has: lack of RP.
The ONLY thing I would look into would be (as mentioned before) EXP boosters and double EXP events. Which honestly I think these should be removed as its already too easy to level to max anyways. So maybe changing those to a 25% boosted EXP events from now on is much more reasonable.
Double RP events could still work JUST off stones and not the EXP RP earned. If that makes sense.
TLDR: EXP->RP is a MUST if this game is to re-birth itself and grow its population.
The first problem with RP'S system artifact is the amount needed. too much and by putting new lvl too too much.
The second problem is to get more refining point you absolutly need dragon's enchant.
The third problem is the way you get RP point. When you run dongeon or any party play like tuern or even the 5 dragon or tiamat . you get practically nothing in RP'S term since it require to kill your oponen to get a chance for RP'S
So the first thing probably to do is when you are in party the chance to get a Rp item should be raised, (it can be for example each time a party member kill a mob you get a chance to drop an RP's item)
The second thing probably to do is to adjust the 30 second cooldown on enchant since it now attach to account. How to do it. well Simple dragon enchant will receive their own cooldown depending on the lvl. exemple: lvl 8 have 40 second cooldown. lvl 9 :30 seconds, lvl 10: 20 seconds new lvl 11: 10 lvl 12 : 0 . Why adjusting cooldown, simply because due to cooldown, upping those is utterly non sense since the chance bar hit reallly quick the cooldown (with 10% chance that 5 lvl 9 enchant, you need to kill around 12 mob after the cooldown to get your RP so when farming it around 1 drop per min. with 15% it will be around 1 per 50-52 second. all due to cooldown. upping them to lvl 11 and 12 will even be less rewarding).
second the XP system. well it can be a good idea, how ever, it need to check also how much a player get in XP in a normal day since killing mob also give XP. If change abose is done problably only need to had a blue RP item in reward when finish a daily quest. (why simply because hadding XP as RP also mean farming foundry's and that something to avoid while give an RP item on daily quest is better)
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I also think the rate at which you earn EXP is approximately the correct rate for earning RP when you look at the math of it all.
As I have mentioned before. Even if you look at 60.
1 daily quest = 4,300 EXP.
It takes 4,600,000 RP for 1 orange. This means it takes an equivalent of nearly 1070 quests to give you enough RP for ONE orange item.
Just looking at my GWF, I have unlocked 7 "power points" which is 14 additional levels of EXP worth at 250,000 per level.
So in all the time they have implemented Overflow EXP I would have ONLY earned 3,500,000. That isnt enough enough for ONE orange item with just EXP->RP.
I'm glad you notice this, too.
The EXP system would be in conjunction with everything we have. I wouldn't change anything about the use of items or refining stones, except possibly add stones to the Dungeon Chest or boss drops to make dungeons more worthwhile.
But it supplements the current RP system. It by no means makes it EZ Mode to get your equipment up to Legendary status. All it does is give people consistent ways to gain progress on their artifact equipment by doing tasks they already enjoy.
And I would definitely keep the +EXP bonus in game the way they are. It just makes those boosters and enchants a lot more valuable than they are now, and creates more choices for people. Is it better to go Dragon's Hoard or Azure's in your utility slots? I guess it depends on what you're doing, right?
But anyway, I think it's a much needed supplement to the current RP system as it stands now.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2015
And another benefit to the EXP system is it's a simpler lever for Cryptic to pull if they need to adjust how quickly or slowly people are gaining RP. And they can do it in multiple ways. A special 2x Weekend. Or adding a 2x exp Dungeon event to the hourly events. Or increasing the amount of Exp foundry mobs are worth, etc...
There's just a lot of levels to pull, and these levers can also be used as a means to incentivize players to do certain content. Not enough people doing Tiamat in Module 6? Offer a 10k EXP reward to players who defeat Tiamat. Heroic encounters not being done in IWD? Give a 5k EXP bonus for completing them, etc, etc.
The EXP system would be in conjunction with everything we have. I wouldn't change anything about the use of items or refining stones, except possibly add stones to the Dungeon Chest or boss drops to make dungeons more worthwhile.
But it supplements the current RP system. It by no means makes it EZ Mode to get your equipment up to Legendary status. All it does is give people consistent ways to gain progress on their artifact equipment by doing tasks they already enjoy.
And I would definitely keep the +EXP bonus in game the way they are. It just makes those boosters and enchants a lot more valuable than they are now, and creates more choices for people. Is it better to go Dragon's Hoard or Azure's in your utility slots? I guess it depends on what you're doing, right?
But anyway, I think it's a much needed supplement to the current RP system as it stands now.
The problem with the XP system is to think how can people cheat it. exemple: foundry farm, auto bot. 1 base mob= 100 XP / kill. with some class killing 50 base mob in a foundry per min isn't a big thing. mean 5000 XP / min 300 000/ hour 7.2 million / day. you get near one item per day in max lvl with an auto bot. Mean or you suppress XP gain on foundry or you adjust XP RP reward with no mob.
+ you still remain on the farming round VS other play because you need to do daily and no party play nor you solve the problem that upping dragon enchant to LVL12 or even less, utherly give nothing more for a disgusting price due to the 30 s cooldown.
That why i suggest to get 1 to change the drop not when you kill a mob but when the party kill a mob. and also lower the cooldown on enchant while they are upping in lvl. (since cooldown is different in foundry you can remain with actual cooldown while in foundry so less bot).
The problem with the XP system is to think how can people cheat it. exemple: foundry farm, auto bot. 1 base mob= 100 XP / kill. with some class killing 50 base mob in a foundry per min isn't a big thing. mean 5000 XP / min 300 000/ hour 7.2 million / day. you get near one item per day in max lvl with an auto bot. Mean or you suppress XP gain on foundry or you adjust XP RP reward with no mob.
+ you still remain on the farming round VS other play because you need to do daily and no party play nor you solve the problem that upping dragon enchant to LVL12 or even less, utherly give nothing more for a disgusting price due to the 30 s cooldown.
That why i suggest to get 1 to change the drop not when you kill a mob but when the party kill a mob. and also lower the cooldown on enchant while they are upping in lvl. (since cooldown is different in foundry you can remain with actual cooldown while in foundry so less bot).
But its all bound to that account. I mean its an alternative to the bound RP.
RP wasnt a problem before they made it BoP. Because bots were able to farm them and sell stacks on the AH for really cheap. Once they shut off that supply it became harder to get.
Most people dont just use a bot since its against the ToS and you can get banned. I mean people can run bots today and get RP stones from dragon hoard enchants.
People can run profession bots and earn 200-300k+ AD per day. Its the nature of the game.
Unless you start handing out a guaranteed 100k+ RP per dungeon run there is no way itll be balanced AND nobody wants to run the current T1/T2s cause its a joke.
Not to mention, you forgot that EXP is capped in Foundry. If you earn too much too fast it locks your EXP for like 30 seconds or a minute. So you CANNOT earn EXP that fast.
EXP->RP is the only viable solution.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
edited January 2015
I like all Lew's suggestions in the first post, and I fully support Ironzerg's idea. I also think maybe they should double (or triple) the % drop rate on the Dragon Hoard enchants. Make it 2% - 3% per lesser and lower the internal cooldown. As long as the drops from them remain bound to account, I think this would make it so much faster to get artifacts and artifact gear leveled up.
Even with all the double RP weekends, I only have 1 piece of legendary gear (my weapon) and 0 legendary artifacts. Everything is currently rare or epic and it's taking forever to get anything leveled up because I have to decide which to level up first.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
The problem with the XP system is to think how can people cheat it. exemple: foundry farm, auto bot. 1 base mob= 100 XP / kill. with some class killing 50 base mob in a foundry per min isn't a big thing. mean 5000 XP / min 300 000/ hour 7.2 million / day. you get near one item per day in max lvl with an auto bot. Mean or you suppress XP gain on foundry or you adjust XP RP reward with no mob.
+ you still remain on the farming round VS other play because you need to do daily and no party play nor you solve the problem that upping dragon enchant to LVL12 or even less, utherly give nothing more for a disgusting price due to the 30 s cooldown.
That why i suggest to get 1 to change the drop not when you kill a mob but when the party kill a mob. and also lower the cooldown on enchant while they are upping in lvl. (since cooldown is different in foundry you can remain with actual cooldown while in foundry so less bot).
Expect, the foundry have limitation to exp gained, if you kill too much in no time = no more exp for some time so ... The only expection to this rule are featured quests who will be hardly a farm foundry so ... I don't see a problem with that and the Foundry event who give 2X exp qill actually become usefull ... So i'm totally for it (and auto-bot playing a full day make the account played 24H a day, this is impossible for a human so auto ban account. Exp refinement would be character bound not even account so you can't even use another account to bot for you so ... in any case it's solve lots of thing ...)
Well the 1rst game i've played with item to level up was with the exp gained, lots of people just played the game without the real need to farm ... Actually you have 2 choice then you play the game : Making something for having some fun, OR Farming behind the screen (Well some people bot but it is not authorized by the game chart so they risk an account ban (and for me i'll also ban IP so ...))
I'll wait and see but i don't have really high hope ...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The problem with the XP system is to think how can people cheat it.
Cheaters should be banned. It's not fair to punish the players who play by the rules because someone else is going to cheat.
But people cheating like this should be pretty easy to find, because it's going to be actual players, not gold farmers doing the botting. There's no reason for gold farmers to farm EXP like this in Foundries because they can't sell it.
And a player doing this would risk having everything he's worked for ruined when he gets banned. That's a huge risk for someone to take, and I know people will. But it should be pretty simple to find out who's doing it.
Or even better, just eliminate objects from the foundry that can spawn an infinite number of bad guys, or just given each Foundry mission a technical limit of 100 or 200 total killable objects that can be spawned in a single Foundry.
To the point of "fixing" the Dragon Hoard enchant...that's a band-aid on a bad system. To use Dragon Hoard effectively would still require people to farm large amounts of mobs, rather than just playing the game, which still is a bad system. Plus it makes Dragon Hoard enchantments MANDATORY to advance in the game, which is a terrible idea.
Expect, the foundry have limitation to exp gained, if you kill too much in no time = no more exp for some time so ... The only expection to this rule are featured quests who will be hardly a farm foundry so ... I don't see a problem with that and the Foundry event who give 2X exp qill actually become usefull ... So i'm totally for it (and auto-bot playing a full day make the account played 24H a day, this is impossible for a human so auto ban account. Exp refinement would be character bound not even account so you can't even use another account to bot for you so ... in any case it's solve lots of thing ...)
Well the 1rst game i've played with item to level up was with the exp gained, lots of people just played the game without the real need to farm ... Actually you have 2 choice then you play the game : Making something for having some fun, OR Farming behind the screen (Well some people bot but it is not authorized by the game chart so they risk an account ban (and for me i'll also ban IP so ...))
I'll wait and see but i don't have really high hope ...
I wasN't knowing for the XP limit on foundry, how ever i do not think it's the only option available. why simply because on the opposite why upping or taking dragon's enchant or feywild enchant since you do same with XP. Actually it'S boring because if you run a party play like dongeon you get way less enchant because it drop when you kill. change it to when party kill and you no more problem on party's
Also they are making enchant to lvl 12. for feywild and other due to the 30 second cooldown, i don,t see reason to pay price to up those from lvl 9 to lvl 10 so lvl 12- with horrible price. no way. that why i suggest to reduce cooldown while enchant lvl up and came to 0 with lvl 12.
(without have actual cost to up lvl 10 to 11 and 11 to 12 i just do estimate based on actual's work)
5 slot so *5 the price . also i do not count seal cost
dragon enchant
lvl 8 20 k AD 1%
lvl 9 240 k AD + 103 k RP (2 lvl 8 enchant+ upping price) 2%
Lvl 10 680 k AD + 536 k RP . 3%
LVL 11 1520 k AD + 2 M RP 4%
LVL 12 3200 K AD + 7 M RP 5%
With 5 slot equiped and count farm by killing 1 mob every 3 second
LVL 8 enchant = 5% mean 1 every 20 mob so 1 min 30 second average to get 1 drop mean 40 drop per hour
LVL 9 enchant = 10 % mean 1 every 10 mob so 1 min to get 1 drop mean 60 drop per hour
LVL 10 enchant = 15% mean 1 every 6.2 mob so 50 second to get 1 drop mean 72 drop per hour
lvl 11 enchant = 20% mean 1 every 5 mob so 45 second to get 1 drop mean 80 drop per hour
lvl 12 enchant = 25% mean 1 every 4 mob so 42 second to get 1 drop mean 85 drop per hour
so with RP cost to lvl up and gain how much RP's you need to collect to start get beniffit to lvl Up (cost = lvl x- lvl Y)
lvl 8 to lvl 9: cost: 515K RP gain 50% so it require 1.5 million RP to get benefit
LVL 9 to lvl 10 cost 5*433 = 2.15 mIllion to gain 1.2 more mean 12 millions RP to start get benefit
lvl 10 to lvl 11 cost 7.5 million gain 1.11 mean 80 million RP's before start getting better.
So if it stay like that yes EXP is an alternate choice to get RP but touching also RP's item rate drop and also make them drop when team kill is an other alternate choice and for me the XP choice still let the RP'S drop with problem
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hammeredhellMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited January 2015
There's been a lot of good discussion here about how to acquire more RP, and such and make it bot-proof... though I don't mind all the things that are slowly becoming BOP/BOA, I think any attempt to make things harder for bot generally just gets worked around within 3 days and the "real" players are the only ones that suffer for the most part....you make things harder for bots, hire some kid for minimum wage to play the game, and every time you change some minor aspect of the game that causes all the bot's macros to go haywire for 3 days or so till they catch on (such as all the toons that have been saying "H" in zone chat for the last 4 days) said kid can perma-ban every one that says "H." There have been tons of times when there's obvious piles of bots with broken macros, or piles of ppl outside of instances such as the last solo-able dungeon in Hotenow, Arcane Reservoir, Ghost Stories etc.
There's been a little talk of changes need to the refining interface to make it less tedious (for the love of God, YES PLEASE!) I would also like to see the ability mark (or un-mark) items that you would never want to refine for the purpose of the drop down menu. (for example I have 5 epics in my bag that stay there only to be switched between pvp/pve mode. (Ideally I'd REALLY like to see an additional tab similar to the fashion/normal gear tab that allows u to switch between pvp/pve gear and have a at-wills, encounters, dailys, class feats and potions loadouts on those tabs. (anything left blank would revert to main tab ofc). At the VERY LEAST it would be nice if when using the RP drop down it didn't show items in my personal bank!
One other thought.... I love the way they made the "roll for random class feat, switch cheaply to any unlocked" aspect of the class based artifact offhands. MAD PROPS to whoever came up with that one. I'm wondering now since the devs are now planning on making changes to artifacts to increase their rank up to 120, might now also be a good time to retroactively rework mainhands to do the same thing with at-wills as offhands do with class feats? (e.g. make it so there's only one kind of mainhand per class.) This may sound semi-irrelevant, however;
Artifacts cost a ton of RP to lvl obviously, but as with all MMO's changes/nerfs/balances etc or whatever you prefer to call them are constantly being made...to lvl up an artifact with a paragon specific at-will that's awesome and relevant now only to have it worthless by comparison 6 months from now after you *finally* get it epic or legendary seems horri-bad. Additionally (and this is just speculation on my part...) all currently existing classes have two paragon path choices and the fact that the icons for these were never centered on the left column when presented to you at level 30, but rather presented top to bottom with space for a THIRD, leads me to believe that a third paragon was always intended to be release....eventually, even if we don't see it for a year or two .... if this IS the case adding even more at-wills is all the more reason to rework these NOW while you're already messing with them anyways.
This is not even pay way. to get rank 12 you will need 4 rank 10. this is ~3m - 5m per piece x 4 = 12 - 20m of AD.
~ with 24k per day tops. takes 12 m / 24k = 500 days. more then 1 year.
~ with zen buy at 480 AD per 1 zen = 25 000 zen. ~ 10$ per 1000 zen = 250$ for single one rank 12 at lowest price.
This does not count even refinement point you need to get to level up rank 10 and rank 11. Even if you pay 250$ per items.
I have seen games that favored pay Yet 250 $/1.5 year per 1 top enchantment is over too much. You need like 10 of them to be best of best right ?
I wish that they did use Ironzerg's Exp-system implemented or any of Lew's ideas as they are described now. Cause all that they can "make" will be way worse.
I thought I would share my POV (not that I already havnt) from playing another game that had a similiar TYPE of "feel" to the EXP->RP system here.
In Destiny (Xbox MMO) you can level up your equipment. You get a base item to drop, say a sniper rifle, and then to level it up you have to actually earn EXP and that weapon levels with you.
So even once your max level and have an arsenal of weapons that are "maxed" when you get a new sweet drop, I would log in and STILL do dailies. Why? Because I wanted to level THAT gun up.
So how does this all translate over to EXP->RP. Well it would be similar in that once you get these cool items, they take ALOT of RP to level up. Even if players didnt need new gear, or had done ALL the content, they will log in just for the sake of doing dailies and farming EXP for the RP.
You will see players revisiting old content even for the daily quest rewards.
The point in all of this, is it rewards actually PLAYING the game, it gives ALOT of motive to play the game even past level caps and true "content".
Currently a player gets all their gear, levels up some of it via RP then sees the colossal cost needed and no way in game to earn RP and just stop/quit/complain.
None of this is meant to be a freebie which is why I think the EXP->RP system works so great, because it gives players a VERY slow way to earn RP in game and even gives an illusion towards casual players of TONS of progression. I mean this would make going from a green->blue->Epic literally just a couple days of EXP farming. So a player now gets a green and it can turn into an epic VERY easily however its in the epic levels where the grind gets hard.
This is how it should be IMO. The casual player gets the rush and feeling of this item becoming stronger and stronger fast. The hardcore player has a massive grind ahead of them (which they are willing to put in). Its truly a win win and truly a GENIUS solution to this problem.
This ONE solution honestly will take a very bad/limiting system (admitted by the DEVs in reddit) and turn it into a very GOOD system of character progression. Most MMOs are plagued by EXP being worthless in end game, this brings back a TON of value to EXP in a good way!
This is not even pay way. to get rank 12 you will need 4 rank 10. this is ~3m - 5m per piece x 4 = 12 - 20m of AD.
~ with 24k per day tops. takes 12 m / 24k = 500 days. more then 1 year.
~ with zen buy at 480 AD per 1 zen = 25 000 zen. ~ 10$ per 1000 zen = 250$ for single one rank 12 at lowest price.
This does not count even refinement point you need to get to level up rank 10 and rank 11. Even if you pay 250$ per items.
I have seen games that favored pay Yet 250 $/1.5 year per 1 top enchantment is over too much. You need like 10 of them to be best of best right ?
I wish that they did use Ironzerg's Exp-system implemented or any of Lew's ideas as they are described now. Cause all that they can "make" will be way worse.
I agree that the cost associated with upgrading is pretty drastic. I think the DEVs forget that its an exponential climb for each rank up. Its not as if you can level a rank 10 to 11 and then upgrade by sheer RP. You need ANOTHER rank 10 to upgrade. Then it takes yet ANOTHER 11 to get 1 rank 12.
Even if you can help out with the RP for this by allowing EXP->RP. I would strongly advocate removing the "duplicate" requirement needed to get to the next level and just have it cost more RP OR more marks or what not.
Im not against it COSTING alot, but when you have to get multiple enchants just to rank up, this is what is excessive. Id even just be in favor of:
RP+GMOP x Level = new rank.
So to get from Rank 9 - Rank 10 would cost like 300k RP + 9x Greater Mark of Potency. Overall COST is still about the same, however now you dont have to go and buy TWO rank 9s.
Going from a 10-11 would be: Required RP (probably like 600k?) + 10 GMOP. Still COSTS alot, but its now more reasonable to farm that. Also with the new EXP-> RP system implemented you can now upgrade a rank 10 to rank 11 with a few weeks of daily farming (RP) + 1 M AD (For the GMOP).
Now that seems MUCH more reasonable. where it puts the "emphasis" back onto RP however now we can also farm RP via EXP.
This would DRAMATICALLY increase my desire to play each day. Constantly feeling like EACH play session is rewarding me somehow. Be it with RP stones, accomplishments, gear, or just the EXP I earned which gives me RP. Each day I progress a little.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited January 2015
Understand that 10 Opals is a negotiation point which you countered with 1 or 2 (it could be T1 1 opal, T2 2 opals, T3 3 opals)
That's a bit rich. One, maybe two opals is sufficient as there is no limit on how many times a dungeon can be run. 10+ is just massive overkill.
Besides, I made the same suggestion in the OP of this thread. The intent of this thread is not "how can we make getting to legendary uber easy". It's addressed more towards the fact that even getting to epic level is a daunting task for many and ways to ease that strain.
Understand that 1`0 Opals is a negotiation point which you countered with 1 or 2 (it could be T1 1 opal, T2 2 opals, T3 3 opals)
Yup.
Lets say it takes 20-30 minutes to run a T2 and its a GUARANTEE to earn 2x Black Opal (20k RP) Do you know how LONG it would take you to farm this to get an orange item?
4,600,000 / 20,000 = 230 T2 runs. If you run 5 a day, this would be 46 days of running FIVE DD T2 runs a day. For just ONE item. repeat this 4x for all the gear and thats over 200 days STRAIGHT of farming T2s 5x a day.
We will have module 7 out by that time and maybe even module 8 announced. Who wants to bet that by mod 8 all this will be obsolete?
Who wants to farm 200 days for gear thats obsolete with a NEW item thatll probably take another 200 days to farm.
Maybe 10 is excessive, but you see the point here. Thats at a 2x Black Opal GUARANTEE also.
Dont forget they have addressed re-adjusting the dungeons to be harder difficulty with harder mobs as well so maybe it wont be 20-30 minutes a run.
TLDR: The DEVs will not be generous enough with RP stones to make this viable. They would need to give a guarantee of a Blood Ruby (50k RP) each DD chest to make this viable. Considering they deem this worth $8 I doubt they will hand these out each DD chest.
Now what COULD happen is a combination of the EXP-> RP system COMBINED with a more generous RP stone drop from each DD chest.
Now you get EXP which also counts as RP per dungeon run. You might also have a daily quest which will give EXP->RP and a 50% chance to get a Black Opal (10k RP) or a 20% chance to get a Blood Ruby (50k RP). This would work really well and people would be farming dungeons again.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited January 2015
Actually the 'Big Reward' for the Adamantine Gauntlet - is the Eye of Lathandar Artifact.
I like all the creative ideas. One I haven't seen put forth yet - why not let us buy RP with gold? Once you buy that first mount, about the only thing you're spending on are healing potions.
I like that the artifact equipment can be refined with equipment drops; it would help to either increase the RP one gets for green - blue to at least make it equitable to buy id scrolls. At least double the amount of RP you get for each. That does, in a way, give a another option of 'playing' your way to upgrading the artifact equipment.
Also, as someone who just recently started playing the game, I was extremely disappointed to find that my big reward for leveling up the gauntlets in Dread Ring was 2 peridots from the treasure chest. Certainly, places like this are an opportunity to increase the RP reward, even if you make them bind on equip.
To be fair, a lot of the suggestions I made were in the vein of building on or improving existing mechanics and methods as opposed to a brand new system, on the hopes that there would be less chance for a major flub. It also works towards more modest changes.
I'm not saying that a whole new system isn't warranted. What I'm saying is that perhaps these changes can also be worked in with an eye towards a complete revamp of the current RP system in the meantime, if time is what is needed.
The bottom line is that it is imperative that the devs address the current RP system in some fashion now, before Mod 6 and its level increases launch. And that's to say nothing of any proposed additions to artifact gear. We're still quite early in the cycle to know everything that's in store for M6.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
The fact that RP's actual system need to be improved is something that every one or nearly all are agreed on.
Which is the best way is an other point ,which one have a chance to satisfy cryptic is an other and which one can satisfy both side may be an other too.
Also unless there is a change of doing thing's, equipment is more or less a 2 mod's life spawn before beeing outclassed, mean before it need to be changed. So for me that's the max time with a reasonnable play you should need to get and up it. So with a reasonnable play that should be the max time you would require to up it from scratch.
Actual equipement is already on this spot with counting only doing it on X2 even.
So shutting down time out on dragon enchant, Xp system, end quest RP reward, loto reward with the hello you win the possiblity to up to max lvl your artifact equipment.. what ever it is it has to really increase actual RP system.
Many player's (myself included) already stopped running after RP because it worth the time and boring to hell to try runing after something that you will have to restart from scratch 4 month later (belt and weapon equipment are here to remember that)
To be fair, a lot of the suggestions I made were in the vein of building on or improving existing mechanics and methods as opposed to a brand new system, on the hopes that there would be less chance for a major flub. It also works towards more modest changes.
I'm not saying that a whole new system isn't warranted. What I'm saying is that perhaps these changes can also be worked in with an eye towards a complete revamp of the current RP system in the meantime, if time is what is needed.
The bottom line is that it is imperative that the devs address the current RP system in some fashion now, before Mod 6 and its level increases launch. And that's to say nothing of any proposed additions to artifact gear. We're still quite early in the cycle to know everything that's in store for M6.
The issue with trying to build on the existing mechanics, from what I see, are they would need to be very generous in their rewards of RP for things like dungeons. Even just adding say an aquamarine onto each daily quest isnt enough of a chance to make it viable. This will allow players to create stacks of them, but without a double RP weekend its just not viable.
Or as other have said offering Black Opals from each DD as a guaranteed reward still doesnt get us there unless you offer double RP weekends like once a month.
Isnt it a little silly though that it ONLY becomes "partially" viable when you DOUBLE the RP on items?
The way I see it, if you put any sort of real math towards calculations, youll need to offer a substantial about of RP drops from nearly doing ANYTHING in game.
I just dont see the DEVs being OVERLY generous to make this system work as is. Ontop of this, offering existing items much easier in game, does have an impact on the perceived price of said item.
Players wont fork over $8 for a Blood Ruby if each dungeon run gives them a blood ruby as well.
Players would be MUCH more likely to buy a Blood Ruby, if they look at it the same as doing 12 daily quests though... 12 dailies is ALOT of dailies to do.
So id strongly suggest against just giving more of the same items since it seems to diminish the value of those items. If that IS the direction they want to take though INSTEAD of the EXP0>RP system (which I would STRONGLY suggest they implement that system)
They need to offer things like:
Daily quests rewards: Pouch of Refinement (random refinements stones) this would be a reward for EACH daily quest and maybe "Epic" versions from DD chests:
- Has a chance to drop:
5-8 Peridots ( 2.5k-4k RP) (50% chance)
or
3-5 Aquamarines (3k - 5k RP) (40% chance)
or
1 Black Opal (10k RP) (10% chance)
The "Epic DD Chest" version would need to be like:
15-25 Aquamarines (15-25k RP) (50% Chance)
or
2-3 Black Opals (20-30k RP) (40% chance)
or
1 Blood Ruby (50k RP) (10% chance).
This would need to be AROUND the amount of RP given out from dungeon runs to give an adequate supply for RP for playing the game.
Since I doubt they would be this generous with RP, Id REALLY like to see that EXP system that nearly everyone has supported.
Any new system will take time and resources to code, test, and the like. The RP system needs addressing now. This is the best time to act. If a new system isn't in the works, or there isn't time to implement one (and, again, we're still early in the process of revealing M6 details, so for all we know there are some changes already in the works) then some of the things suggested need a look. It's not perfect. It's not the cure for all the ills of the RP system. But it's a step in the right direction.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Comments
And that's a good goal to have. I'm pretty eager to see how paladin will turn out, stats changes, not to mention lv 25 professions and more... It's a good time to change some of the old content and modernize it, because who uses artificing crafted weapons anymore? I would rather use a crafted weapon that binds (require 25 crafting to make) with two enchant slots(maybe a set bonus? :P) like jewelcrafting than dealing with 4.3m RP as the system stands now.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
The refining interface could also use an overhaul for the sake usability. I won't express how unpleasant it is to drag stacks of rank 1 enchants, 5 at a time, into a high ranked artifact/enchantment as things are now.
Give me a bucket that refines everything we drop into it in one shot at a refine station like we have for salvaging. Or sell a magic bag (like a penny roll - which are free from the bank, mind you) in the WB that will crunch everything inside when consumed.
This should never be the case. Even on a F2P model, you should never feel that content is out of reach unless you pay. That is the WRONG way to make a game and Neverwinter has even proven it.
Back before any module released this game was a cash cow! It also had zero artifact items and everything was BoE and farmable.
Now? We have SO many BoP things and all the best gear needs to pay to level it up.
Noone is asking for it to be too easy, but there needs to be a reasonable farm rate on things like artifacts and artifact equipment. There currently is none. Even if they start THROWING RP at us, it would take a massive massive change for this to even be feasible. Take for instance if they gave 100% drop chance a Black Opal in EVERY DD chest. Wow, that sounds really good right?
Well lets do the math then....
4,600,000 RP for ONE orange item. We have 4 available to us atm so easily over 18mil RP. 10,000 RP per run (well even add an extra 4k! and pretend we get some peridots and aquamarines for good measure.) 18,000,000 / 14,000 = 1,285 DD runs. Think that sounds reasonable? Lets say you ran TEN DD runs A DAY!
Thats 128 DAYS straight, running 10 DD runs A DAY. That is NOT reasonable.
Even if you added a blood ruby (50k RP - which they would NEVER do) as a guaranteed drop, and lets say your running alot of dragon hoard enchants and can get another 10kRP! Lets just shoot the moon here. Thats 60k RP a run.
18,000,000 / 60,000 = Still 300 DD runs. Now that seems MORE reasonable. Keep in mind though this was estimating that you earn 10k RP each run through dragon hoard AND they GUARANTEED a Blood Ruby (50k RP) each DD.
See how far off they are? Its just silly and we all know they would never hand these out for free like that. Now they might make it a CHANCE to get a blood ruby, and might make it near guarantee that you get atleast a black opal, but the math above shows that still to be unreasonable.
As much as I would like for RP to just be an increased drop. They would honestly have to go in and increase the RP on each item like 400% and make them drop like candy for that to be plausible. I just dont see it happening.
They might start giving out more aquamarines and more black Opals but its just not gonna cut it.
In the end the ONLY way I see possible to really "wash away" the filth that was created with this poorly implemented RP system is to use an EXP -> RP system.
They can hand out more RP if they want, they can reduce prices if they want, but allowing players to play the game and earn RP via playing the game, thats the only way I see it working out.
This EXP-> RP should be able to be used for ALL RP (enchants, weapon enchants, artifacts, arti-equipment). Think how long it takes to get 250,000 EXP. Its not easy. Thats what it takes to level up with "overflow" exp right now. That is LESS than it takes to take an artifact item from 59->60 (about 360k RP).
So its not as if the EXP-> RP system is a "handout" by anymeans. It just makes things MUCH more attainable and it lessens the gear differential from PUGS to "BIS" characters - which is what is needed in PVP ALOT!.
If they want to incentive the right things, make daily dungeon quests worth ALOT more EXP (like 20k or 30k EXP) Now its much more profitable to run dungeons than just farm dailiy quests.
The only other thing to watch out for would be Azure utility or double EXP or EXP boosters. So im not sure how you want to handle that. Maybe those only boost your real EXP and not RP.
Then you can STILL have double RP events for people using stones and what not, because that would NOT add to EXP->RP.
CN - VT - MC - DV: sapphire,black opals, blood ruby on bosses, and 5% chance to drop a brilliant diamond in the final chest
Others T2 : resonnance stones(green), aquamarines, sapphire and 10%chance to drop a black opal in the final chest
T1: white pearls, peridots& resonnance stones ( grey) and 15%chance to drop a sapphire in the final chest
Goldsellers couldn't go in an instance with their bots, and players will spend more time in all dungeons.
A big up to ironzerg with his very good idea to link RP to the xp !!
Sorry for my english not my native language
I also agree with more RP stone rewards from all of the content.
If that would be too complicated to implement though, the idea of dropping refinement stones from dailies and dungeons would help a lot.
I think it could easily be implemented actually. They already built the "overflow" EXP process. I really dont think it would take much time to code at all.
I also think the rate at which you earn EXP is approximately the correct rate for earning RP when you look at the math of it all.
As I have mentioned before. Even if you look at 60.
1 daily quest = 4,300 EXP.
It takes 4,600,000 RP for 1 orange. This means it takes an equivalent of nearly 1070 quests to give you enough RP for ONE orange item.
Just looking at my GWF, I have unlocked 7 "power points" which is 14 additional levels of EXP worth at 250,000 per level.
So in all the time they have implemented Overflow EXP I would have ONLY earned 3,500,000. That isnt enough enough for ONE orange item with just EXP->RP.
I think this is more than reasonable. This, I would almost guarantee, would actually INCREASE sales because now players would feel they are so close to actually getting the item, the cost to cross the finish line seems reasonable. Versus right now, the people that say its "fine" or a "long grind" (you know what I mean) have NO clue that about HALF the cost of the orange item is just leveling it from 50-60.
Well these "casuals" will not pay and have no idea if they want an orange they WILL have to pay.
Overall I see no real liability with the EXP->RP proposal. I think its genius and it will honestly solve the BIGGEST problem this game has: lack of RP.
The ONLY thing I would look into would be (as mentioned before) EXP boosters and double EXP events. Which honestly I think these should be removed as its already too easy to level to max anyways. So maybe changing those to a 25% boosted EXP events from now on is much more reasonable.
Double RP events could still work JUST off stones and not the EXP RP earned. If that makes sense.
TLDR: EXP->RP is a MUST if this game is to re-birth itself and grow its population.
I agree that the exp - > RP system is the only way to go, definitly, I would be much more enthusiastic playing the game in general if this system is implemented, currently I just completely gave up the idea of ever being BiS. It just feels completely out of my reach as things are now, buying RP is not an option (600$ for one artifact...?). The exp -> RP system would help that alot. It's a bot proof (bots can't sell exp or exp boosters) So cryptic gets the monopoly of the exp/rp market, and it's not a free handout. You can still power your artifact with blood rubies, or farm your way to the top at a faster rate than others with exp boosters. Sounds like a good deal to me.
+1 to ironzerg and the others who thought of this idea
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
The first problem with RP'S system artifact is the amount needed. too much and by putting new lvl too too much.
The second problem is to get more refining point you absolutly need dragon's enchant.
The third problem is the way you get RP point. When you run dongeon or any party play like tuern or even the 5 dragon or tiamat . you get practically nothing in RP'S term since it require to kill your oponen to get a chance for RP'S
So the first thing probably to do is when you are in party the chance to get a Rp item should be raised, (it can be for example each time a party member kill a mob you get a chance to drop an RP's item)
The second thing probably to do is to adjust the 30 second cooldown on enchant since it now attach to account. How to do it. well Simple dragon enchant will receive their own cooldown depending on the lvl. exemple: lvl 8 have 40 second cooldown. lvl 9 :30 seconds, lvl 10: 20 seconds new lvl 11: 10 lvl 12 : 0 . Why adjusting cooldown, simply because due to cooldown, upping those is utterly non sense since the chance bar hit reallly quick the cooldown (with 10% chance that 5 lvl 9 enchant, you need to kill around 12 mob after the cooldown to get your RP so when farming it around 1 drop per min. with 15% it will be around 1 per 50-52 second. all due to cooldown. upping them to lvl 11 and 12 will even be less rewarding).
second the XP system. well it can be a good idea, how ever, it need to check also how much a player get in XP in a normal day since killing mob also give XP. If change abose is done problably only need to had a blue RP item in reward when finish a daily quest. (why simply because hadding XP as RP also mean farming foundry's and that something to avoid while give an RP item on daily quest is better)
I'm glad you notice this, too.
The EXP system would be in conjunction with everything we have. I wouldn't change anything about the use of items or refining stones, except possibly add stones to the Dungeon Chest or boss drops to make dungeons more worthwhile.
But it supplements the current RP system. It by no means makes it EZ Mode to get your equipment up to Legendary status. All it does is give people consistent ways to gain progress on their artifact equipment by doing tasks they already enjoy.
And I would definitely keep the +EXP bonus in game the way they are. It just makes those boosters and enchants a lot more valuable than they are now, and creates more choices for people. Is it better to go Dragon's Hoard or Azure's in your utility slots? I guess it depends on what you're doing, right?
But anyway, I think it's a much needed supplement to the current RP system as it stands now.
There's just a lot of levels to pull, and these levers can also be used as a means to incentivize players to do certain content. Not enough people doing Tiamat in Module 6? Offer a 10k EXP reward to players who defeat Tiamat. Heroic encounters not being done in IWD? Give a 5k EXP bonus for completing them, etc, etc.
The problem with the XP system is to think how can people cheat it. exemple: foundry farm, auto bot. 1 base mob= 100 XP / kill. with some class killing 50 base mob in a foundry per min isn't a big thing. mean 5000 XP / min 300 000/ hour 7.2 million / day. you get near one item per day in max lvl with an auto bot. Mean or you suppress XP gain on foundry or you adjust XP RP reward with no mob.
+ you still remain on the farming round VS other play because you need to do daily and no party play nor you solve the problem that upping dragon enchant to LVL12 or even less, utherly give nothing more for a disgusting price due to the 30 s cooldown.
That why i suggest to get 1 to change the drop not when you kill a mob but when the party kill a mob. and also lower the cooldown on enchant while they are upping in lvl. (since cooldown is different in foundry you can remain with actual cooldown while in foundry so less bot).
But its all bound to that account. I mean its an alternative to the bound RP.
RP wasnt a problem before they made it BoP. Because bots were able to farm them and sell stacks on the AH for really cheap. Once they shut off that supply it became harder to get.
Most people dont just use a bot since its against the ToS and you can get banned. I mean people can run bots today and get RP stones from dragon hoard enchants.
People can run profession bots and earn 200-300k+ AD per day. Its the nature of the game.
Unless you start handing out a guaranteed 100k+ RP per dungeon run there is no way itll be balanced AND nobody wants to run the current T1/T2s cause its a joke.
Not to mention, you forgot that EXP is capped in Foundry. If you earn too much too fast it locks your EXP for like 30 seconds or a minute. So you CANNOT earn EXP that fast.
EXP->RP is the only viable solution.
Even with all the double RP weekends, I only have 1 piece of legendary gear (my weapon) and 0 legendary artifacts. Everything is currently rare or epic and it's taking forever to get anything leveled up because I have to decide which to level up first.
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Expect, the foundry have limitation to exp gained, if you kill too much in no time = no more exp for some time so ... The only expection to this rule are featured quests who will be hardly a farm foundry so ... I don't see a problem with that and the Foundry event who give 2X exp qill actually become usefull ... So i'm totally for it (and auto-bot playing a full day make the account played 24H a day, this is impossible for a human so auto ban account. Exp refinement would be character bound not even account so you can't even use another account to bot for you so ... in any case it's solve lots of thing ...)
Well the 1rst game i've played with item to level up was with the exp gained, lots of people just played the game without the real need to farm ... Actually you have 2 choice then you play the game : Making something for having some fun, OR Farming behind the screen (Well some people bot but it is not authorized by the game chart so they risk an account ban (and for me i'll also ban IP so ...))
I'll wait and see but i don't have really high hope ...
Cheaters should be banned. It's not fair to punish the players who play by the rules because someone else is going to cheat.
But people cheating like this should be pretty easy to find, because it's going to be actual players, not gold farmers doing the botting. There's no reason for gold farmers to farm EXP like this in Foundries because they can't sell it.
And a player doing this would risk having everything he's worked for ruined when he gets banned. That's a huge risk for someone to take, and I know people will. But it should be pretty simple to find out who's doing it.
Or even better, just eliminate objects from the foundry that can spawn an infinite number of bad guys, or just given each Foundry mission a technical limit of 100 or 200 total killable objects that can be spawned in a single Foundry.
To the point of "fixing" the Dragon Hoard enchant...that's a band-aid on a bad system. To use Dragon Hoard effectively would still require people to farm large amounts of mobs, rather than just playing the game, which still is a bad system. Plus it makes Dragon Hoard enchantments MANDATORY to advance in the game, which is a terrible idea.
I wasN't knowing for the XP limit on foundry, how ever i do not think it's the only option available. why simply because on the opposite why upping or taking dragon's enchant or feywild enchant since you do same with XP. Actually it'S boring because if you run a party play like dongeon you get way less enchant because it drop when you kill. change it to when party kill and you no more problem on party's
Also they are making enchant to lvl 12. for feywild and other due to the 30 second cooldown, i don,t see reason to pay price to up those from lvl 9 to lvl 10 so lvl 12- with horrible price. no way. that why i suggest to reduce cooldown while enchant lvl up and came to 0 with lvl 12.
(without have actual cost to up lvl 10 to 11 and 11 to 12 i just do estimate based on actual's work)
5 slot so *5 the price . also i do not count seal cost
dragon enchant
lvl 8 20 k AD 1%
lvl 9 240 k AD + 103 k RP (2 lvl 8 enchant+ upping price) 2%
Lvl 10 680 k AD + 536 k RP . 3%
LVL 11 1520 k AD + 2 M RP 4%
LVL 12 3200 K AD + 7 M RP 5%
With 5 slot equiped and count farm by killing 1 mob every 3 second
LVL 8 enchant = 5% mean 1 every 20 mob so 1 min 30 second average to get 1 drop mean 40 drop per hour
LVL 9 enchant = 10 % mean 1 every 10 mob so 1 min to get 1 drop mean 60 drop per hour
LVL 10 enchant = 15% mean 1 every 6.2 mob so 50 second to get 1 drop mean 72 drop per hour
lvl 11 enchant = 20% mean 1 every 5 mob so 45 second to get 1 drop mean 80 drop per hour
lvl 12 enchant = 25% mean 1 every 4 mob so 42 second to get 1 drop mean 85 drop per hour
so with RP cost to lvl up and gain how much RP's you need to collect to start get beniffit to lvl Up (cost = lvl x- lvl Y)
lvl 8 to lvl 9: cost: 515K RP gain 50% so it require 1.5 million RP to get benefit
LVL 9 to lvl 10 cost 5*433 = 2.15 mIllion to gain 1.2 more mean 12 millions RP to start get benefit
lvl 10 to lvl 11 cost 7.5 million gain 1.11 mean 80 million RP's before start getting better.
So if it stay like that yes EXP is an alternate choice to get RP but touching also RP's item rate drop and also make them drop when team kill is an other alternate choice and for me the XP choice still let the RP'S drop with problem
There's been a little talk of changes need to the refining interface to make it less tedious (for the love of God, YES PLEASE!) I would also like to see the ability mark (or un-mark) items that you would never want to refine for the purpose of the drop down menu. (for example I have 5 epics in my bag that stay there only to be switched between pvp/pve mode. (Ideally I'd REALLY like to see an additional tab similar to the fashion/normal gear tab that allows u to switch between pvp/pve gear and have a at-wills, encounters, dailys, class feats and potions loadouts on those tabs. (anything left blank would revert to main tab ofc). At the VERY LEAST it would be nice if when using the RP drop down it didn't show items in my personal bank!
One other thought.... I love the way they made the "roll for random class feat, switch cheaply to any unlocked" aspect of the class based artifact offhands. MAD PROPS to whoever came up with that one. I'm wondering now since the devs are now planning on making changes to artifacts to increase their rank up to 120, might now also be a good time to retroactively rework mainhands to do the same thing with at-wills as offhands do with class feats? (e.g. make it so there's only one kind of mainhand per class.) This may sound semi-irrelevant, however;
Artifacts cost a ton of RP to lvl obviously, but as with all MMO's changes/nerfs/balances etc or whatever you prefer to call them are constantly being made...to lvl up an artifact with a paragon specific at-will that's awesome and relevant now only to have it worthless by comparison 6 months from now after you *finally* get it epic or legendary seems horri-bad. Additionally (and this is just speculation on my part...) all currently existing classes have two paragon path choices and the fact that the icons for these were never centered on the left column when presented to you at level 30, but rather presented top to bottom with space for a THIRD, leads me to believe that a third paragon was always intended to be release....eventually, even if we don't see it for a year or two .... if this IS the case adding even more at-wills is all the more reason to rework these NOW while you're already messing with them anyways.
All we can do is hope that the devs read feedback and pray that they figure it out
~ with 24k per day tops. takes 12 m / 24k = 500 days. more then 1 year.
~ with zen buy at 480 AD per 1 zen = 25 000 zen. ~ 10$ per 1000 zen = 250$ for single one rank 12 at lowest price.
This does not count even refinement point you need to get to level up rank 10 and rank 11. Even if you pay 250$ per items.
I have seen games that favored pay Yet 250 $/1.5 year per 1 top enchantment is over too much. You need like 10 of them to be best of best right ?
I wish that they did use Ironzerg's Exp-system implemented or any of Lew's ideas as they are described now. Cause all that they can "make" will be way worse.
In Destiny (Xbox MMO) you can level up your equipment. You get a base item to drop, say a sniper rifle, and then to level it up you have to actually earn EXP and that weapon levels with you.
So even once your max level and have an arsenal of weapons that are "maxed" when you get a new sweet drop, I would log in and STILL do dailies. Why? Because I wanted to level THAT gun up.
So how does this all translate over to EXP->RP. Well it would be similar in that once you get these cool items, they take ALOT of RP to level up. Even if players didnt need new gear, or had done ALL the content, they will log in just for the sake of doing dailies and farming EXP for the RP.
You will see players revisiting old content even for the daily quest rewards.
The point in all of this, is it rewards actually PLAYING the game, it gives ALOT of motive to play the game even past level caps and true "content".
Currently a player gets all their gear, levels up some of it via RP then sees the colossal cost needed and no way in game to earn RP and just stop/quit/complain.
None of this is meant to be a freebie which is why I think the EXP->RP system works so great, because it gives players a VERY slow way to earn RP in game and even gives an illusion towards casual players of TONS of progression. I mean this would make going from a green->blue->Epic literally just a couple days of EXP farming. So a player now gets a green and it can turn into an epic VERY easily however its in the epic levels where the grind gets hard.
This is how it should be IMO. The casual player gets the rush and feeling of this item becoming stronger and stronger fast. The hardcore player has a massive grind ahead of them (which they are willing to put in). Its truly a win win and truly a GENIUS solution to this problem.
This ONE solution honestly will take a very bad/limiting system (admitted by the DEVs in reddit) and turn it into a very GOOD system of character progression. Most MMOs are plagued by EXP being worthless in end game, this brings back a TON of value to EXP in a good way!
I agree that the cost associated with upgrading is pretty drastic. I think the DEVs forget that its an exponential climb for each rank up. Its not as if you can level a rank 10 to 11 and then upgrade by sheer RP. You need ANOTHER rank 10 to upgrade. Then it takes yet ANOTHER 11 to get 1 rank 12.
Even if you can help out with the RP for this by allowing EXP->RP. I would strongly advocate removing the "duplicate" requirement needed to get to the next level and just have it cost more RP OR more marks or what not.
Im not against it COSTING alot, but when you have to get multiple enchants just to rank up, this is what is excessive. Id even just be in favor of:
RP+GMOP x Level = new rank.
So to get from Rank 9 - Rank 10 would cost like 300k RP + 9x Greater Mark of Potency. Overall COST is still about the same, however now you dont have to go and buy TWO rank 9s.
Going from a 10-11 would be: Required RP (probably like 600k?) + 10 GMOP. Still COSTS alot, but its now more reasonable to farm that. Also with the new EXP-> RP system implemented you can now upgrade a rank 10 to rank 11 with a few weeks of daily farming (RP) + 1 M AD (For the GMOP).
Now that seems MUCH more reasonable. where it puts the "emphasis" back onto RP however now we can also farm RP via EXP.
This would DRAMATICALLY increase my desire to play each day. Constantly feeling like EACH play session is rewarding me somehow. Be it with RP stones, accomplishments, gear, or just the EXP I earned which gives me RP. Each day I progress a little.
Yup.
Lets say it takes 20-30 minutes to run a T2 and its a GUARANTEE to earn 2x Black Opal (20k RP) Do you know how LONG it would take you to farm this to get an orange item?
4,600,000 / 20,000 = 230 T2 runs. If you run 5 a day, this would be 46 days of running FIVE DD T2 runs a day. For just ONE item. repeat this 4x for all the gear and thats over 200 days STRAIGHT of farming T2s 5x a day.
We will have module 7 out by that time and maybe even module 8 announced. Who wants to bet that by mod 8 all this will be obsolete?
Who wants to farm 200 days for gear thats obsolete with a NEW item thatll probably take another 200 days to farm.
Maybe 10 is excessive, but you see the point here. Thats at a 2x Black Opal GUARANTEE also.
Dont forget they have addressed re-adjusting the dungeons to be harder difficulty with harder mobs as well so maybe it wont be 20-30 minutes a run.
TLDR: The DEVs will not be generous enough with RP stones to make this viable. They would need to give a guarantee of a Blood Ruby (50k RP) each DD chest to make this viable. Considering they deem this worth $8 I doubt they will hand these out each DD chest.
Now what COULD happen is a combination of the EXP-> RP system COMBINED with a more generous RP stone drop from each DD chest.
T2 Chest:
20% chance- Blood Ruby
50% chance - Black Opal
30% chance - 2x Aquamarines
Now you get EXP which also counts as RP per dungeon run. You might also have a daily quest which will give EXP->RP and a 50% chance to get a Black Opal (10k RP) or a 20% chance to get a Blood Ruby (50k RP). This would work really well and people would be farming dungeons again.
I'm not saying that a whole new system isn't warranted. What I'm saying is that perhaps these changes can also be worked in with an eye towards a complete revamp of the current RP system in the meantime, if time is what is needed.
The bottom line is that it is imperative that the devs address the current RP system in some fashion now, before Mod 6 and its level increases launch. And that's to say nothing of any proposed additions to artifact gear. We're still quite early in the cycle to know everything that's in store for M6.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Which is the best way is an other point ,which one have a chance to satisfy cryptic is an other and which one can satisfy both side may be an other too.
Also unless there is a change of doing thing's, equipment is more or less a 2 mod's life spawn before beeing outclassed, mean before it need to be changed. So for me that's the max time with a reasonnable play you should need to get and up it. So with a reasonnable play that should be the max time you would require to up it from scratch.
Actual equipement is already on this spot with counting only doing it on X2 even.
So shutting down time out on dragon enchant, Xp system, end quest RP reward, loto reward with the hello you win the possiblity to up to max lvl your artifact equipment.. what ever it is it has to really increase actual RP system.
Many player's (myself included) already stopped running after RP because it worth the time and boring to hell to try runing after something that you will have to restart from scratch 4 month later (belt and weapon equipment are here to remember that)
The issue with trying to build on the existing mechanics, from what I see, are they would need to be very generous in their rewards of RP for things like dungeons. Even just adding say an aquamarine onto each daily quest isnt enough of a chance to make it viable. This will allow players to create stacks of them, but without a double RP weekend its just not viable.
Or as other have said offering Black Opals from each DD as a guaranteed reward still doesnt get us there unless you offer double RP weekends like once a month.
Isnt it a little silly though that it ONLY becomes "partially" viable when you DOUBLE the RP on items?
The way I see it, if you put any sort of real math towards calculations, youll need to offer a substantial about of RP drops from nearly doing ANYTHING in game.
I just dont see the DEVs being OVERLY generous to make this system work as is. Ontop of this, offering existing items much easier in game, does have an impact on the perceived price of said item.
Players wont fork over $8 for a Blood Ruby if each dungeon run gives them a blood ruby as well.
Players would be MUCH more likely to buy a Blood Ruby, if they look at it the same as doing 12 daily quests though... 12 dailies is ALOT of dailies to do.
So id strongly suggest against just giving more of the same items since it seems to diminish the value of those items. If that IS the direction they want to take though INSTEAD of the EXP0>RP system (which I would STRONGLY suggest they implement that system)
They need to offer things like:
Daily quests rewards: Pouch of Refinement (random refinements stones) this would be a reward for EACH daily quest and maybe "Epic" versions from DD chests:
- Has a chance to drop:
5-8 Peridots ( 2.5k-4k RP) (50% chance)
or
3-5 Aquamarines (3k - 5k RP) (40% chance)
or
1 Black Opal (10k RP) (10% chance)
The "Epic DD Chest" version would need to be like:
15-25 Aquamarines (15-25k RP) (50% Chance)
or
2-3 Black Opals (20-30k RP) (40% chance)
or
1 Blood Ruby (50k RP) (10% chance).
This would need to be AROUND the amount of RP given out from dungeon runs to give an adequate supply for RP for playing the game.
Since I doubt they would be this generous with RP, Id REALLY like to see that EXP system that nearly everyone has supported.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com