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Is TR daze to long combine with Scoundrel feats?
jarecsteph
Member Posts: 270 Arc User
I found after fighting a considerable number of fights against TR
That TR daze abilities cause by Shadow Strike, Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb are too much if you add over the daze effect of Scoudrel Skullcracker. It gets to a point it’s nearly impossible to fight, being control up to 75% of the time when TR is not in stealth mode.
As exemple, Dazing strike last at least 4 seconds and every 15 seconds Scoudrel TR has up to 6 seconds daze apllied by Skullcracker when using an encounter.
So only with one encounter (and there is 3 that can daze) plus Skullcracker you have a lap of up to 10 seconds daze effects and only 5 seconds remaining until the Skullcracker kicks in again. So daze is easily applied a minimum of 75% of the fight.
Add to that Impossible to Catch in the 5 second remaining when you’re not daze and you’ll see that my question is justified.
While the encounters are in cooldown mode the TR is in stealth mode and appeared when daze chain or Impossible to Catch are usable again or Skullcracker is on.
I suggest Scoudrel Skullcracker feat should have its daze reduced at least 50% on player, and kick in every 25 to 30 seconds instead of 15 seconds.
That TR daze abilities cause by Shadow Strike, Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb are too much if you add over the daze effect of Scoudrel Skullcracker. It gets to a point it’s nearly impossible to fight, being control up to 75% of the time when TR is not in stealth mode.
As exemple, Dazing strike last at least 4 seconds and every 15 seconds Scoudrel TR has up to 6 seconds daze apllied by Skullcracker when using an encounter.
So only with one encounter (and there is 3 that can daze) plus Skullcracker you have a lap of up to 10 seconds daze effects and only 5 seconds remaining until the Skullcracker kicks in again. So daze is easily applied a minimum of 75% of the fight.
Add to that Impossible to Catch in the 5 second remaining when you’re not daze and you’ll see that my question is justified.
While the encounters are in cooldown mode the TR is in stealth mode and appeared when daze chain or Impossible to Catch are usable again or Skullcracker is on.
I suggest Scoudrel Skullcracker feat should have its daze reduced at least 50% on player, and kick in every 25 to 30 seconds instead of 15 seconds.
Post edited by jarecsteph on
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or learn to move conctantly and dont stay in one point like seating duck and buy some ogma artifacts if you are lazy moving around.
Yet, in some cases that daze is broken.
WTB Class Reroll please
OH COME ON SERIOUSLY, Deft Strike and you're CC'd to death, end of story. Even if you managed to dodge it with the power of prediction, they're gonna need to dodge a few times till ICD on the passive wears off and perma-daze you again. There's not a single thing to justify that nonsense. There should be daze immunity for about 4 seconds after being dazed. Or cut all dazes by half in PvP.
But for this sequence to work requires you to have no tenacity or other CC immunity, stand perfectly still for at least 10s, and the TR to have good luck with timing and crits. In most real fights I have seen there are gaps in the daze duration because circumstances are not perfect and most players are much better than you are.
And adjusting Skullcracker will have zero effect. The Scoundrel feats are not the main issue - you can get very nearly as good control using an Executioner build in 1v1 as long as you slot SB and DS. And you'll die much faster to an Executioner.
Two things need to happen, in this order:
1. Make sure Daze is respecting CC resist/immunity in PvP. There is some evidence that it might not be.
2. THEN look at Daze duration against players - all dazes, not just Skullcracker.
After that, any other problems will be LTP issues.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
if you have a lot of control resist (40% or so), you can reduce a 6 sec control by 2 seconds. a 4 sec control is a lot easier to deal with. quite a few clerics have high wisdom which makes it hard to keep them controlled long enough to kill them 1 vs 1. with the boost to tenacity, you should have no problem getting at least 20% from pvp gear alone.
we do have 3 daze encounters, but 2 are hard to land:
the most difficult to dodge daze is a skullcapper boosted deft strike and is the only part that is overwhelming since you can't run or fight back. still dodgeable if you know it's coming though. saving up for an elven battle enchant to see how useful it is on my wizard when countering slows.
i have dealt with quite a few cowards who just run when they miss and force me to deal with their team-mate until they come back and ambush me while i am trying to avoid other things. they could have just stayed and fought since most wizards can't overcome a 1 vs 2/3 regardless but oh well. irony being in that match where i was constantly ganked like that, i still ended up with more kills than the rogues since they were too afraid to fight on their own and wasted a lot of time with hit-run tactics (they didn't die much though so i guess that preserves their "nice" k:d ratio).
???? 25% is it enough for you ??????
What is your point I ask a question and you don't answer.
Moving around is not a problem at all when your not daze.
But you can't move when you are daze and when your not, you have an Impossible to Catch TR in front of you and after a gost.
And don't forget that to see the stealth TR you have been hit by (in this case) Dazing Strike or on Scoudrel Skullcracker influence
So what is your respond to the thread???
So daze as it is right now is not acceptable for you.
18K GS plus TR Scoundrel does the sequence practically all the time.
But that was an example and yes I think also that all daze duration against players should be reviewed.
I was in page 5 PVP board this morning (and without a guild) and had 4737 kill.
They were only 3 other characters (with no guild) in front of me this morning and they were 3 TR
So I think I know what I'm talking about guys.
That is not realistic with high gear score PVP TR. You can't know is in your back when he is stealth.
And some are starting with Deft Strike to get right in your back when they're not in the right position and especially when they know Skullcracker is about to activate.
So please respond to the question!!!
I’m asking about daze effect and there duration combine with Impossible to Catch and Skullcracker and if you want you can add Bloodbath (as soon it's available) all are 3 TR unavoidable attacks or effect.
I think it's too much don't you think????
You're asking a nerf based on a situation which you do not understand fully, with intentions that would simply see the return of the mod3~4 "CW doesn't even need to move away, just take the TR attacks in melee range with shield on, give out a nice 'lol' and then CC them as they they tickle you with subpar damage" days.
In actual combat the MI scoundrels you list down are simply hard pressed to extend any kind of daze as their limitations are clear. Due to the recent "reveal stealth when hit" mechanic, any kind of preliminary set-ups attacks from stealth will simply update your location and existence to the target, hence in most likely the initial attack starts with Dazing Strike from stealth, which will trigger BOTH SC and CS at the same time. During the course of daze extension it is totally random whether CS will proc again or not and is mostly out of control, and when the daze is about to be finished the TR needs to go back into stealth with the SS -- no daze when used out of stealth.
Realistically speaking, with MIs the window of opportunity which opens up only with an initial Dazing Strike lasts no more than 5 seconds, since unlike in theory tenacity and WIS stats, racial features, as well as any other CC resist effects typically cut down on around 25% of the listed time. The theoretical 6 second extension of Skull Cracker only works on NPC mobs, and typically Dazing Strike itself lasts more like 3, the SC-boosted dazes last around 4.5~5, and Concussive Strike dazes last less than 2 seconds. I've witnessed and confirmed repeatedly a HR which is hit by Concussive Strikes retaliate with a Disruptive Arrow before the 2-second stealth reveal is finished.
I find it extremely unlikely that any MI scoundrel ever extends his daze more than 6s, and I am also extremely suspicious you're either simply blowing stuff out of proportion with typical exaggerations, or just making this up with theoretical numbers. The "long daze" extension almost exclusively comes from WKs, and that's with the help of a secondary offensive encounter since having no ITC means it is free to use something else gearted towards offense... and as mentioned countless times, a single use of Oghma's at a crucial timing will simply turn the tides against any WK since it lacks CC breakers.
So, to sum it up, its really simple:
(1) If you meet MI-based Scoundrels which will actually be able to extend his dazes with clockwork-precision like you've explained everytime, then that's simply a superior TR player which I can't even imagine how precise his timing is. You've simply been outplayed by someone superior than you.
(2) If you're consistently being dazed for long, extended durations then that's solely the work of a WK, which means at any moment of vulnerability the tables will be turned since WKs are without ITC, and as mentioned, stuff like Oghma's help immensely.
You're welcome to bring forth any vid evidence that a MI/Sco keeps on dazing you for 10 seconds straight, which, if it does happen as often as you claim, shan't be too difficult to film -- it ain't exactly going to be the Lochness Monster, right?
Otherwise, I call bullshi* on your claims.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Daze for around 10 sec while being DPS can happened.
But you still don't respond to the question.
I say that daze effects and there duration combine with the advantage of Impossible to Catch and Skullcracker (to name only a few) is to much.
Do you say that a TR can't contol an entirer fight with that?
And it certainly not a question of a better player, only a question of total control and immunities against other players!!! And I'm not talking invisibility on top of that.
And in my opinion, if a TR he's not able to do it,
then he's not on of the good PVP player.
And getting chain CCd by rotations of stuff like Icy Rays, Ray of Frost and Entangling Force isn't?
You're welcome to either prove it yourself, or give us a film of you being dazed for 10s straight, because while I do not claim I'm the best Scoundrel out there, I do claim I'm the one who first showcased to the NW TR community exactly what the new Scoundrels are capable of, along with basic tactics in use for the Scoundrels.
The tactics used by EVERY Scoundrel in the game follow the path I've laid out, whether knowingly or unknowlingly, and whether they've watched and learned fro m others or reached that point by themselves.
In that sense, these "theories" of dazes you lay down in your boring repetition of "nerf TR dazes" threads just don't happen in real life. The situation revolving dazes and their timing are so delicate as to the mere existence of some other player, or even simply relative positioning or distance can ruin it and Scoundrels are NOTHING like the how the old Sab would operate -- especially after the recent 'hit reveals stealth' mechanics in place.
PRIOR to this mechanic things were easier, now it simply ain't. To be able to do what you say the MI/Scos are doing it requires the TR to blow everything he has and put it into cooldown to take on just ONE CW, and frankly if someone is going to do that, that someone would most probably rather roll a MI/Exec since it basically can do similar stuff with better results.
If anything the part where your theory fails, and I repeat again, is the part when the initial Skull Cracker duration has expired. The TR has no control over whether the next Concussive is going to happen. Most MI/TRs aren't going to risk it.
That's why we need a more solid evidence, no?
We're still waiting for your vids.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Aside from all of this I don't think there was any mention about how any class with a dodge can disrupt skullcracker. This is simple for anyone who can pvp.... Dodge an encounter. Quit complaining so much people.
Puts me at 80% all the time when using shadow strike effectively.
On top of that I have another feat that adds 10% deflect when under 30% hp.
So I manage to get nailed down to 30% hp I more than likely have a deflect rating of 90%
Now tell me is this cause I'm smart and picked the right feats for pvp?
Or is there someone else who insists on complaining? Sometimes people straight up have a good build. My GS is only 17k
Others are 20k+ and play chicken **** stealth. Guess what it's always gonna be there.
Learn to fight effectively. I have killed so many rogues on my SW, ya an SW! Now u can't tell me that's easy.... But I can. Pretty **** often in fact. So grow some nuts. Learn class mechanics. Come back for more *** whooping. Thank you have a nice day.
he probably means a rotation similar to mine which is just:
dazing strike ---> flurry ---> smoke bomb ---> flurry ---> dazing strike
^outside of that, it's practically impossible to hold someone for 10 sec. it's also assuming nobody tries to prevent me from killing the person or my target isn't a quick runner. 1 vs 1 speaking, it's incapable of holding down anyone that can actually run quick enough to avoid the flurry and the occasional people who have enough control resist to break out of it early. it's also extremely tight-knit to the point that there can be no errors or the daze will wear off b4 smoke bomb can chain to it.
to be honest, it's not the most threatening thing a wizard can run into. deft strike + dazing is a more overwhelming combo but its also an all-or-nothing combo.
and like you said, oppressors can control someone a LOT easier and it can actually be permanent if you are good at it (i'm not yet but i do see the potential of it if i can master the timings).
And AGAIN MR IGNORANT KWEASSA STRIKES!!!
Does it matter if you die because you where cced 10 sec or 8 sec or 5 sec ?? everybody knows 5 sec being cced is an eternity in pvp.
Does it change that Tr is a broken PVP class fit to play by only those that desire a way of easy going with low risk?
Does it change the fact that the team with the most Trs wins as a norm?
Does it change the fact that never in the history in NW has a class manage to rank up such a obviously bias KD ratio?
Does it change the fact that PVP is about to become extinct because of the TRs and them being so OP that others just quite pvp rather then be the food for some that dont care about game balance but must further their egos at others expence?
It has been your strategy in almost all your posting to leave the issue at hand, being that TR is a broken class and need to be fixed ASAP, and attack something written either in the wrong way or some detail that isent exactly right.
Follow your posting and you see somebody extreamly afraid obnoxious stubborn TR that desperatly tries to defend something by attacking NOT the fact that its broken but how people describe WHY it is broken.
I said it before and I guess i have to say it again as you cant help yourself....
TR class is broken and no matter how much you rant these post will continue for the sole fact that the TRUTH is that TR need a serious NERF in PVP...
Now I tell you this I will follow your posting and everytime i see you attack peoples way of describing things rather then the issue at hand i will help you to realize that desctrutive behavior as a favor just to you..
Best
That's all fine and dandy, marni. :rolleyes: Now, if you don't have anything to specifically mention about the current daze mechanics in question, I suggest you just remain silent.
We're busy discussing how stuff really works. You can do that blanket-statement <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-poor whining stuff at the TR forums.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
low risk? doesn't feel like it when i lose at least half my hp instantly due to procs from most classes......
i had a team with 2 rogues vs a team with 2 faithfuls and no rogues. we lost because those clerics just would not die. funny ain't it?
i feel like mod 2 gwf's could pull it off since they technically never died or almost never died and could freely solo the entire team in their own campfire without repercussions. but that was b4 leaderboard so there is no telling.
people have left during every mod.
Now back to subject. There is little to no chance to CC a properly playing character with a full pvp gear and tenacity above 20%. This was vastly explained to you in couple of extensive post made by "Ignorant Kweassa".
But you are one of those players that had been standing still after getting dazed.
You seem like saying that it is difficult but it theory possible to chain the daze effects.
But that’s not my point.
I’m saying that on top of the capability of high dazing effects Tr can use the total immunity of Impossible to Catch and also enjoying dazing effect of Skullcracker and it’s fairly easy to use all of these to control at least 75% of a fight (even more).
And this while let’s say a daily like Bloodbath is getting ready to strike without the possibility of the opponent to counterattack, again.
So I'm steal asking: Is TR daze to long combine with Scoundrel feats????? And I add to long even without it?
..
Dodge roll Dodge roll /hide ITC /hide away we go come back lashing/daily dead ....
You know others die when faced 1-2 its called high rist I understand the consept is alien to ya,,,
So you had and exeriance out of the ordinare whish means that the norm of having most Trs dont means a win or ....
You are making such a strong case.
There was some very hard to kill Gwfs back then but 1,they dident have the KD ratio of the Trs today 2 they needed bis gear to pull it off compared to todays 13kgs Trs 3 they still dident reach the KD ratio of todays TRs 4. two wrongs sure doesent make it better do whats your angle here?
Am taling about quitting pvp even if leaving the game can be the result of it and never has pvp suffered such a waste drop before and the sole biggest reason for it is the OPness of the TR atm.
I have no clue why you felt the need to post these points of yours that funny enough are pointless.
The irony is that it very much in the exact spirit of Kweassas post - attacking how instead of why things are written ....
Highly doubt it, demkyu. He specifically mentions ITC, so basically he's fighting a MI/Scoundrel with the standard [ITC / SS / optional encounter] set up. SC only activates with an offensive encounter, and SS is way to valuable to just spam as an attack. Hence, most likely it's a very, very standard ITC / DS / SS setup.
I know, right? Except if you aren't a Scoundrel, you don't know it turns out in actual combat.
Also, I've played PvP and experienced PvP forums long enough in many, many different games for the past 20 years to know tha people usually remember only what they want to remember, or how they THINK what happened, as opposed to WHAT REALLY happened. In my best guess, the op probably thinks that is what is really happeneing, when as a matter of fact there were plenty of moments where he was not dazed, and simply invited himself to further dazes by responding incorrectly. When that happens, people -- especially when they are angry == only remember it as "I'm just dazed forever!", when it really ain't what happened.
That's why I keep on asking for evidence. I don't trust the TR bashers and their memories.
Like I've already explained zillion times to these people, long-dazes os a privelage of Whisperknives. Most usually since VP is a non-stealth breaking, ranged encounter. So a DHS from range, around 2sec daze, follow immediately with a VP shot, initiate SC proc, follow up with VP teleport and other attacks to close range, another 4~5 secs, and then follow up with Dazing Strike for another 3~4... and then SS to disappear. That would be in theory 2.5 + 6 + 4 = 12.5 seconds, in reality due to tenacity most likely 9~10 seconds.
And ALSO, like mentioned, people can simply screw that attempt anytime with an Oghma's, activate, counter CC the WK, no ITC = bad for the WK, very, very bad.
Fit for 1vs1 situations, and has no access to ITC. So yeah, it's not something you see in actual PvP. It is sometimes visible with TRs that only remain with the team at node2.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'