Step 2: Dazes aren't the problem. You are either getting blown up by 100% crit from stealth + piercing or you are allowing yourself to get dazed more than you should. Why? You aren't very good.
Step 3: What the WHAT?!!! Icing on the cake right here. I hope I see you in game so I can show you just how bad you are against a TR that DOES NOT run with ITC.
Learn to argue for the right cause, which is, change 100% cit from stealth and remove all piercing damage from the game. Also, learn to play.
Change 100% critical from stealth could be step 4 or 3.
Regarding the no good assumption: I’m number 1 CW on the board with no guild (and third total with no guild with only 2 TR in front of me). I got there by myself with no arranged 20k plus guild fights against the server.
My build is specifically designed to kill CWs. No ItC. I rely on 3 gap closers and I frustrate the living hell out of CWs. I also appear to be OP because of those gap closers. I get to you, FAST. In a match against under-geared opponents, I'll have inflated kills. It's my play-style as a WK/Scoundrel. It gives me an advantage over CWs.
But I pay a price. It's a 1 vs. 1 build. So I might be able to take out that CW but if that CW has an ally within range, I'm a duck on a pond. Erased. It's a high risk, high reward build. .......
And still how do you explain this % of top characters on the board:
TR 8.1 kills for 1 death
DC 2.2 kills for 1 death
HR 4.8 kills for 1 death
GWF 5.6 kills for 1 death
CW 2.5 kills for 1 death
SW 0 kills for 0 deaths
Are you saying TR players are (52%) better than the total of all other characters players (48%) of Neverwinter, and that we all don’t know how to handle TRs?
TR 8.1 kills for 1 death
DC 2.2 kills for 1 death
HR 4.8 kills for 1 death
GWF 5.6 kills for 1 death
CW 2.5 kills for 1 death
SW 0 kills for 0 deaths
Are you saying TR players are (52%) better than the total of all other characters players (48%) of Neverwinter, and that we all don’t know how to handle TRs?
are you saying that at least 33% of every single one of those rogues is a scoundrel?
And concerning daze at least 10 sec, I fight about 2 TR a day that doses it.
You’re very annoying, I won't put names or videos of other players online, what kind of guy are you man?
It's not uncommon for players to record videos of their PvP games. IIRC direct posting of images containing names is against RoC, but links to legitimate videos are ok provided they directly relate to the discussion. My memory is slightly hazy, so go check out the RoC and let me know if thats not the case.
Anyhow, providing a video of these encounters which you suggest are common enough, would add a whole lot of validity to your argument.
There are a plethora of video capture programs out there. I've had some usage out of Bandicam, and I've heard that fraps is good too. I'm sure that there are plenty more also.
If I were trying to demonstrate a point irrefutably, I'd show video evidence of this situation.
Continuing on without is just starting to look like evasion.
And concerning daze at least 10 sec, I fight about 2 TR a day that doses it.
You’re very annoying, I won't put names or videos of other players online, what kind of guy are you man?
You're the person who's ranting about an imaginary phenomenon caused out of your own failure to understand TR tactics, and have dragged this on for more than ten pages without a single presentation of proof...
...and of course, I'M the annoying one. :rolleyes: They really ought to make a "ROFL" smiley or something.
(ps) On second thought, if you can't present direct proof, at least give us a vid of you playing your CW. You're acting as if you're a good player, but I don't believe you now. Who are you in game, and under which name should I look you up in the leaderboards?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You're the person who's ranting about an imaginary phenomenon caused out of your own failure to understand TR tactics, and have dragged this on for more than ten pages without a single presentation of proof...
...and of course, I'M the annoying one. :rolleyes: They really ought to make a "ROFL" smiley or something.
(ps) On second thought, if you can't present direct proof, at least give us a vid of you playing your CW. You're acting as if you're a good player, but I don't believe you now. Who are you in game, and under which name should I look you up in the leaderboards?
Your completely out of place, you're just here trying to discredit others so please you made no point so go bother another thread or better dont write stuff anymore.
Your completely out of place, you're just here trying to discredit others so please you made no point so go bother another thread or better dont write stuff anymore.
OF COURSE I AM TRYING TO DISCREDIT YOU. You speak as if this is something wrong.
When we don't have any direct evidence to look at, comment, discuss about, then the only thing this discussion falls to is simply a YOUR WORD OR MINE situation. You keep on arguing something is possible. I - as someone who has keenly dabbled in Scoundrel builds - have objected to your opinion on grounds of ignorance. You don't really know how the Scoundrel performs, and judging by what others have said about you (like what twilight mentioned), it seems you are making mistakes about TRs in a level that is not possible for someone with a lot of PvP experience and a good player.
So, I intend to know who you are, and ask my friends or anyone else who is knowledgeable in the premade world to hear their opinion about you, whether you are a decent player, and if possible seek the leaderboards to see if you're really at a place you claim you are at. If possible, maybe I can even contact you.
Contrary to how that sounds, I'm not the "we duel, and if I win, I'm right, you're wrong" type, unlike how some premade people operate. I just want to see for myself just where you're having so much trouble with MI scoundrels and why.
One thing for certain is without you presenting any evidence of what you are arguing, we have no way of continuing this debate. This thread simply loses all meaning at this point where you've withheld from proving your point.
My handle is @talesian, and as a TR I'm "Lomsie Cheps".
Who are you? If you don't want public disclosure, then a pm is fine by me.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
OF COURSE I AM TRYING TO DISCREDIT YOU. You speak as if this is something wrong.
When we don't have any direct evidence to look at, comment, discuss about, then the only thing this discussion falls to is simply a YOUR WORD OR MINE situation. You keep on arguing something is possible. I - as someone who has keenly dabbled in Scoundrel builds - have objected to your opinion on grounds of ignorance. You don't really know how the Scoundrel performs, and judging by what others have said about you (like what twilight mentioned), it seems you are making mistakes about TRs in a level that is not possible for someone with a lot of PvP experience and a good player.
So, I intend to know who you are, and ask my friends or anyone else who is knowledgeable in the premade world to hear their opinion about you, whether you are a decent player, and if possible seek the leaderboards to see if you're really at a place you claim you are at. If possible, maybe I can even contact you.
Contrary to how that sounds, I'm not the "we duel, and if I win, I'm right, you're wrong" type, unlike how some premade people operate. I just want to see for myself just where you're having so much trouble with MI scoundrels and why.
One thing for certain is without you presenting any evidence of what you are arguing, we have no way of continuing this debate. This thread simply loses all meaning at this point where you've withheld from proving your point.
My handle is @talesian, and as a TR I'm "Lomsie Cheps".
Who are you? If you don't want public disclosure, then a pm is fine by me.
What proof do you need when Dazing Strike last 4 to 5 seconds at 4 seconds you trow Smoke Bomb just in the midle of the taget location and here you have a total of at least 9 to 10 seconds daze before the opponent is ok and any TR can do that.
With Scoundrel it can add up more than that easely.
You just taking us for fools and you are not honnest at all doing so.
Nerf will come after Cryptic has cashed in all the new TR's. This is a business strategy. A rather low moral one of course, but hey, it works every time they do it.
Everyone but a select few (TR's ofc) know what is wrong and how to fix it. The issue if you like to debate these things is that the defending TR's are a lot more vocal and active doing their thing than the others who seek some balance.
I'd imagine if kwaessa and his peers spent a little more time enjoying a broken class and a little less time in the forums trying to keep the broken TR broken, they would actually get to play some before it's the next class turn to be broken.
Don't forget, we also have DC that needs a major overhaul. But since they are more immortal and not "1 hit kill everything with a pulse", people in the forums tend to focus on the bigger problem.
It's anyone's guess which class will be made broken so they can cash in on that next mod. HR, CW, GWF and GF has already been, and SW is broken in PvE since release (with no fix in sight). But since PvP people are the most vocal and think they matter, I reckon SW will be mod 6's cash cow. :P So buy your SW stuff cheap now!
And kwaessa, give it a rest and go daze someone, no one likes you.
It is just so disappointing to see a class become overpowered for a whole mod, then Cryptic overnerfs them. It happened to GWF. It happened to the GF
For me its bad business and short term objective you’re on a tin line doing so because peoples will leave for other games and once they do they won’t come back.
When we don't have any direct evidence to look at, comment, discuss about....
All TR abuses daze at the moment they all daze and then DPS and try to daze again and DPS again.
All the fights evolve around daze that has immediate effect.
4 to 5 seconds daze is an eternity in PVP and on top of that, it can easily be reapplied every couple of seconds.
If you cut its effect 50% you know that you will lost the greatest advantage (unbalance) you have at the moment and that's why TR don't want it to change.
A TR 'abuses' a daze as much as any HR abuses his disruptive arrow-combos or a CW abuses his chain freezing/combos.
It's either ALL chain CCs get nerfed equally for ALL classes, or none. Your incessant whines for selective nerfing for a certain class you have problems with, simply showcases deranged hypocrisy at its best.
By the way;
You still didn't provide any evidence.
Should have figured. Common occurrences for cowards to lie.
I agree. Let's make all CC powers respect deflect and tenacity and remove the duration reduction on players or the other way around. :cool:
A TR 'abuses' a daze as much as any HR abuses his disruptive arrow-combos or a CW abuses his chain freezing/combos.
It's either ALL chain CCs get nerfed equally for ALL classes, or none. Your incessant whines for selective nerfing for a certain class you have problems with, simply showcases deranged hypocrisy at its best.
By the way;
You still didn't provide any evidence.
Should have figured. Common occurrences for cowards to lie.
So now we see that you're really afraid of daze changes.
CW can’t abuses his chain freezing/combos because it takes time to apply not like immediate daze and freeze as a cooldown on player not daze.
So we all see that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I agree. Let's make all CC powers respect deflect and tenacity and remove the duration reduction on players or the other way around. :cool:
Hey, if it's a universal change, I'd actually agree to it. Sure as hell would make my life easier when having to dance around two CWs and an enemy TR spewing CCs around like a llama throwing around spit.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Okay, so you agree that scoundrel dazes should be fixed in the same way as the module 4 CW freeze chain was fixed, then. That's good, we're making progress.
Funny...when the CW had the chain freeze, it was nerfed within just over a week. Why is it that when GWF, GF, HR, TR, DC are overpowered, they stay overpowered for such a long time?
Are PVP CW getting punished because their PVE counterpart has benefited from PVE for such a long time?
I'm going to say this once and for all time, and then warnings are getting sent out and repeat cases are getting sent to the CM for more severe actions. Not naming names, you know who you are, and it's gone far enough.
If you cannot respond to one another in a civilized manner that is neither condescending nor insulting, and cannot keep from expressing yourself without willfully evading the profanity filter, do not post.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Hey, if it's a universal change, I'd actually agree to it. Sure as hell would make my life easier when having to dance around two CWs and an enemy TR spewing CCs around like a llama throwing around spit.
^^^
that's the best scenario,but the cw horde will never agree.
Stun/prones/daze should respect tenacity and cc ressit abilities.
Defelct has no job to reduce c duration.Hrs have high deflect and are almost cc free and will never agree.
PS:for the record:GWF/Gf stunning Flourish(empowered flourish through a 5 point τ2 feat) stun for only 1.5 secs in pvp have long animation and can get deflected and reduced in duration.Make a compare with 4-6 SkullCracker dazes or CWs CC chain
that's the best scenario,but the cw horde will never agree.
Stun/prones/daze should respect tenacity and cc ressit abilities.
Defelct has no job to reduce c duration.Hrs have high deflect and are almost cc free and will never agree.
PS:for the record:GWF/Gf stunning Flourish(empowered flourish through a 5 point τ2 feat) stun for only 1.5 secs in pvp have long animation and can get deflected and reduced in duration.Make a compare with 4-6 SkullCracker dazes or CWs CC chain
GWF/GFs would unanimously support such change
To start, no CW can abuse anything now. We have only 2 effective ways to freeze an opponent first Ray of Frost our weakest DPS that takes a minimum of 3 seconds before it freezes and the second is Icy Terrain that is our weakest DPS encounter and takes so much time to freeze that no CW use it in PVP.
Smoke Bomb applies daze right away for at least 4 seconds and has an area of effect nearly the size of a PVP cap compare to Icy Terrain that as a small area of effect and takes too long to freeze. So to have PVP balance Icy Terrain should as the same area of effect that Smoke Bomb has and freeze right away or Smoke Bomb should get a smaller area of effect and take 2 to 3 seconds before it takes effect because like in real life if you get smoked you will try to evade the area without inhaling the gaz.
And for the rest of TR daze abilities it can’t even be close to compare to Ray of Frost so the minimum conclusion forward balance should be to cut down daze abilities time effect by 50%. And even so CW cc will still be less effective then TR daze but I think it would be a closer step to balance.
Smoke Bomb applies daze right away for at least 4 seconds and has an area of effect nearly the size of a PVP cap compare to Icy Terrain that as a small area of effect and takes too long to freeze. So to have PVP balance Icy Terrain should as the same area of effect that Smoke Bomb has and freeze right away or Smoke Bomb should get a smaller area of effect and take 2 to 3 seconds before it takes effect because like in real life if you get smoked you will try to evade the area without inhaling the gaz.
I would like to share my thoughts on smokebomb so your post fits me:p
Smokebomb doesn't apply daze right away. That's because smoke bomb has a delay from cast to effect i think around 0.5sec or maybe more. Classes with dodge can dodge it right away when they hear it. Also, that 4 seconds you mentioned, anyone can walk out of it in 2 secs tops.
BUT,
the problem comes because smoke bomb also deals dmg. That dmg procs Concussive Strikes and even tho it is a daze within a daze that u might think it goes to waste, it actually works well.Because even if u walk out of smoke bomb fast, the feat procs and u get up to 2-2,5sec added daze duration even if u are out of smoke bomb.
I personally think that Smoke Bomb shouldn't deal dmg at all.
That dmg is big if played the right way. You can deal up to +5k dmg per tick under the right circumstances.And i'm always talking about PvP.
Ps: To those that imply that there is no perma daze, i tell you: you don't fully understand the term.
If u daze someone for 4secs and all it takes is 1 rotation to kill him, then it's perma daze.
If u daze somenne for 8-10 secs and all it takes is 1,5-2 rotations to kill him , then it's perma daze.
If u daze someone for 2secs and all it takes is 1 SE to kill him, then it's a perma daze.
Now if someone is hard enough and it takes 5-6 rotations to kill him, then it is not a perma daze. He gets around 25-35% of the duration of the battle undazed. That's not perma daze,that's just unfair!
Comments
Change 100% critical from stealth could be step 4 or 3.
Regarding the no good assumption: I’m number 1 CW on the board with no guild (and third total with no guild with only 2 TR in front of me). I got there by myself with no arranged 20k plus guild fights against the server.
are you saying that at least 33% of every single one of those rogues is a scoundrel?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
No. But TR daze is to long.
And of course, just chant something repeatedly and it becomes true. Right now, I'm chanting "get a clue".
(ps) I'm also chanting, "where's that proof?". It's been many days. Not a single PvP vid of a MI scoundrel dazing you 10s straight.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
And concerning daze at least 10 sec, I fight about 2 TR a day that doses it.
You’re very annoying, I won't put names or videos of other players online, what kind of guy are you man?
It's not uncommon for players to record videos of their PvP games. IIRC direct posting of images containing names is against RoC, but links to legitimate videos are ok provided they directly relate to the discussion. My memory is slightly hazy, so go check out the RoC and let me know if thats not the case.
Anyhow, providing a video of these encounters which you suggest are common enough, would add a whole lot of validity to your argument.
There are a plethora of video capture programs out there. I've had some usage out of Bandicam, and I've heard that fraps is good too. I'm sure that there are plenty more also.
If I were trying to demonstrate a point irrefutably, I'd show video evidence of this situation.
Continuing on without is just starting to look like evasion.
Edit: I knew I'd seen this somewhere.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?600311-Mod-Notice-PvP-Video-Link-Guidelines-%28read-before-posting%29
I'm sure the mod team wouldn't take too long to approve a video from you considering the context of the discussion.
You're the person who's ranting about an imaginary phenomenon caused out of your own failure to understand TR tactics, and have dragged this on for more than ten pages without a single presentation of proof...
...and of course, I'M the annoying one. :rolleyes: They really ought to make a "ROFL" smiley or something.
(ps) On second thought, if you can't present direct proof, at least give us a vid of you playing your CW. You're acting as if you're a good player, but I don't believe you now. Who are you in game, and under which name should I look you up in the leaderboards?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Your completely out of place, you're just here trying to discredit others so please you made no point so go bother another thread or better dont write stuff anymore.
OF COURSE I AM TRYING TO DISCREDIT YOU. You speak as if this is something wrong.
When we don't have any direct evidence to look at, comment, discuss about, then the only thing this discussion falls to is simply a YOUR WORD OR MINE situation. You keep on arguing something is possible. I - as someone who has keenly dabbled in Scoundrel builds - have objected to your opinion on grounds of ignorance. You don't really know how the Scoundrel performs, and judging by what others have said about you (like what twilight mentioned), it seems you are making mistakes about TRs in a level that is not possible for someone with a lot of PvP experience and a good player.
So, I intend to know who you are, and ask my friends or anyone else who is knowledgeable in the premade world to hear their opinion about you, whether you are a decent player, and if possible seek the leaderboards to see if you're really at a place you claim you are at. If possible, maybe I can even contact you.
Contrary to how that sounds, I'm not the "we duel, and if I win, I'm right, you're wrong" type, unlike how some premade people operate. I just want to see for myself just where you're having so much trouble with MI scoundrels and why.
One thing for certain is without you presenting any evidence of what you are arguing, we have no way of continuing this debate. This thread simply loses all meaning at this point where you've withheld from proving your point.
My handle is @talesian, and as a TR I'm "Lomsie Cheps".
Who are you? If you don't want public disclosure, then a pm is fine by me.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
What proof do you need when Dazing Strike last 4 to 5 seconds at 4 seconds you trow Smoke Bomb just in the midle of the taget location and here you have a total of at least 9 to 10 seconds daze before the opponent is ok and any TR can do that.
With Scoundrel it can add up more than that easely.
You just taking us for fools and you are not honnest at all doing so.
Nerf will come after Cryptic has cashed in all the new TR's. This is a business strategy. A rather low moral one of course, but hey, it works every time they do it.
Everyone but a select few (TR's ofc) know what is wrong and how to fix it. The issue if you like to debate these things is that the defending TR's are a lot more vocal and active doing their thing than the others who seek some balance.
I'd imagine if kwaessa and his peers spent a little more time enjoying a broken class and a little less time in the forums trying to keep the broken TR broken, they would actually get to play some before it's the next class turn to be broken.
Don't forget, we also have DC that needs a major overhaul. But since they are more immortal and not "1 hit kill everything with a pulse", people in the forums tend to focus on the bigger problem.
It's anyone's guess which class will be made broken so they can cash in on that next mod. HR, CW, GWF and GF has already been, and SW is broken in PvE since release (with no fix in sight). But since PvP people are the most vocal and think they matter, I reckon SW will be mod 6's cash cow. :P So buy your SW stuff cheap now!
And kwaessa, give it a rest and go daze someone, no one likes you.
For me its bad business and short term objective you’re on a tin line doing so because peoples will leave for other games and once they do they won’t come back.
All TR abuses daze at the moment they all daze and then DPS and try to daze again and DPS again.
All the fights evolve around daze that has immediate effect.
4 to 5 seconds daze is an eternity in PVP and on top of that, it can easily be reapplied every couple of seconds.
If you cut its effect 50% you know that you will lost the greatest advantage (unbalance) you have at the moment and that's why TR don't want it to change.
I agree. Let's make all CC powers respect deflect and tenacity and remove the duration reduction on players or the other way around. :cool:
So now we see that you're really afraid of daze changes.
CW can’t abuses his chain freezing/combos because it takes time to apply not like immediate daze and freeze as a cooldown on player not daze.
So we all see that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Hey, if it's a universal change, I'd actually agree to it. Sure as hell would make my life easier when having to dance around two CWs and an enemy TR spewing CCs around like a llama throwing around spit.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Funny...when the CW had the chain freeze, it was nerfed within just over a week. Why is it that when GWF, GF, HR, TR, DC are overpowered, they stay overpowered for such a long time?
Are PVP CW getting punished because their PVE counterpart has benefited from PVE for such a long time?
If you cannot respond to one another in a civilized manner that is neither condescending nor insulting, and cannot keep from expressing yourself without willfully evading the profanity filter, do not post.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
^^^
that's the best scenario,but the cw horde will never agree.
Stun/prones/daze should respect tenacity and cc ressit abilities.
Defelct has no job to reduce c duration.Hrs have high deflect and are almost cc free and will never agree.
PS:for the record:GWF/Gf stunning Flourish(empowered flourish through a 5 point τ2 feat) stun for only 1.5 secs in pvp have long animation and can get deflected and reduced in duration.Make a compare with 4-6 SkullCracker dazes or CWs CC chain
GWF/GFs would unanimously support such change
To start, no CW can abuse anything now. We have only 2 effective ways to freeze an opponent first Ray of Frost our weakest DPS that takes a minimum of 3 seconds before it freezes and the second is Icy Terrain that is our weakest DPS encounter and takes so much time to freeze that no CW use it in PVP.
Smoke Bomb applies daze right away for at least 4 seconds and has an area of effect nearly the size of a PVP cap compare to Icy Terrain that as a small area of effect and takes too long to freeze. So to have PVP balance Icy Terrain should as the same area of effect that Smoke Bomb has and freeze right away or Smoke Bomb should get a smaller area of effect and take 2 to 3 seconds before it takes effect because like in real life if you get smoked you will try to evade the area without inhaling the gaz.
And for the rest of TR daze abilities it can’t even be close to compare to Ray of Frost so the minimum conclusion forward balance should be to cut down daze abilities time effect by 50%. And even so CW cc will still be less effective then TR daze but I think it would be a closer step to balance.
I would like to share my thoughts on smokebomb so your post fits me:p
Smokebomb doesn't apply daze right away. That's because smoke bomb has a delay from cast to effect i think around 0.5sec or maybe more. Classes with dodge can dodge it right away when they hear it. Also, that 4 seconds you mentioned, anyone can walk out of it in 2 secs tops.
BUT,
the problem comes because smoke bomb also deals dmg. That dmg procs Concussive Strikes and even tho it is a daze within a daze that u might think it goes to waste, it actually works well.Because even if u walk out of smoke bomb fast, the feat procs and u get up to 2-2,5sec added daze duration even if u are out of smoke bomb.
I personally think that Smoke Bomb shouldn't deal dmg at all.
That dmg is big if played the right way. You can deal up to +5k dmg per tick under the right circumstances.And i'm always talking about PvP.
Ps: To those that imply that there is no perma daze, i tell you: you don't fully understand the term.
If u daze someone for 4secs and all it takes is 1 rotation to kill him, then it's perma daze.
If u daze somenne for 8-10 secs and all it takes is 1,5-2 rotations to kill him , then it's perma daze.
If u daze someone for 2secs and all it takes is 1 SE to kill him, then it's a perma daze.
Now if someone is hard enough and it takes 5-6 rotations to kill him, then it is not a perma daze. He gets around 25-35% of the duration of the battle undazed. That's not perma daze,that's just unfair!
Thank you for reading.