The change to BtA refining items would probably pretty much be an unmitigated disaster for the game's overall player population, which would also affect profitability. It has become increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module; this would make it almost exponentially more so. For established players, it would mean their ability to advance further would become almost completely stymied.
One fundamental question is whether it's intended on the developer side that only whales should be able to attain the best stuff in the game, or whether that should also be open to free players who invest sufficient (and not excessive) time to actually playing the game. That aside, there are some other issues to consider which could be addressed alongside this issue.
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
Weird.... You mean... Like we would actually get things for running dungeons?!
Im just going to Highlight the underlying themes here. If you guys want a list, HERE IS THIS GUYS LIST THAT WE ALL SUPPORT!!!!
HERE IS A LIST OF THE ABOVE POST FOR EASE OF ADDRESSING!!!!
1) increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module
2) Rewards for Actually Playing the Game
3) many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels
4) Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon
5) completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks
6) the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot
7) The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices
8) Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. (My Own insert here because Ive done a thread here before. A t2.5+ Epic should literally give in the range of 50k RP base. With 100k being doubled with "like items". This means you can feasibly farm for T2.5+ Items to gain RP from)
9) Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank
10)changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players.
11) increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards
My added to the above list (that was macjae's list) is this:
MORE daily quests for actual game play rather than "showing up" type things. For instance:
Current PVP quest is DO 4 games or WIN 2. This SHOULD be split into a few different rotating daily pvp quests. You can easily come up with a large list of 30+ quests (an easy idea is to copy the pvp campaign quests but on a smaller scale.)
So each day Rhix offers 1 PVP quest for EACH type of PVP:
1) Domination
2) Open World PVP
3) GG
You can copy the boons so things LIKE "Player revives" or "player kills under 50% HP" etc.
Now you would have THREE quests per day, all giving real incentive for actual play (not something a bot can easily do) and then give us REAL rewards for those daily quests.
Id also submit that it would be a great idea to have a system in place where if a person completes all three pvp daily quests, Rhix then automatically resets and provides another 3 quests.
Again, the rewards should be some type of "coffer" or "bag" that has a chance to return several different RP related items (or even AD).
This puts power back in the players hands and gives actual objectives to accomplish in PVP rather than just "show up". Heck you can even KEEP in place the existing daily for AD. Just tack these ontop of them.
PS:To all how are aganst this change farming RP with those enchants you can still upgrade your artifacts this change only effect bots and not active players. I think this is a good move and protect us real players.
How does it protect us? It didn't damage us, yet people will now be damaged by the wide gap that will exist if they go through with it and leave it as it is.
0
Options
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
How does it protect us? It didn't damage us, yet people will now be damaged by the wide gap that will exist if they go through with it and leave it as it is.
Any one can have Dragon hoard its easy to obtain and any one can farm bound RP to use it on her self but bots cannot sell it (cuz they will farm bound rp ) and will not mess up the AH .
There was a time when 1 rank 4 was 4k ad in AH.
Any one can have Dragon hoard its easy to obtain and any one can farm bound RP to use it on her self but bots cannot sell it (cuz they will farm bound rp ) and will not mess up the AH .
There was a time when 1 rank 4 was 4k ad in AH.
Again, how does that protect us? It just makes it less available to us? We don't get enough rp to realistically farm an artifact piece to legendary. What we can do currently is save our AD and buy it. Being bound, no-one can realistically afford them while currently you can if you've been playing (or paying) a lot or for a long time. If we wanted AD, we can no longer sell our drops too.
the change done on dragon enchant and the two others kinds of dropping enchant are bad new for player for many reasons.
1- both drop enchant from thoses one will take now twice amount of inventory since now you will have two sort for each of any type. Just for this part having none or all of them attach to account would be better (not only those that drop with enchant but also those from chest). there is too much of different kind of enchant to actually to play with both attach to account and not attach. it will require just for this change 2 more bag just to carry it
2 - as i can read this change is mainly to prevent bot. how ever it will be practicaly no use against bot since bot mainly do not fight and just open chest. in reality it will only affect active farmer that use this system to sell item and with the price of 10k for 99 peridot, unless you can use bot, using those enchant is far less interresting than many other way.
3 legendary actual RP lvl needed is too high to be reasonnably achieved without using money, HV or a cheat way like bot or other. based on my estimate time by just farming for enchant you will need around 400 - 600 hour (with enchant already up) of intense farming to up 1 item to legendary (with 4 slot of enchant lvl 9-10). Since we now speak of 7 artefact,. by playing let say 3 h per days, it 2-3 years of farming.
So to resume as your change is now it will mainly not solve your problem of bot or gold farmer but it will mainly affect your real player.
Here suggests if you want to diminuish bot
- 1 put all of them what ever source is attach to account.
- 2 put a system that also allow you to up artefact with XP (2 way, a part of XP won goes on artefact, or i think is better, each time you get 250 k xp you can up 1 artefact for 1 lvl )
- 3 for the dragon enchant and the two other, make the quality of the drop depend of the quality of the mob killed ( the drop from a epic dongeon boss should be better than the drop from a 1 bar life mob. (ex: if the dragon enchant activate on a epic dongeon boss kill, you should get an opal or lvl just bellow, if it activate on an epic big life mob you should get a blue drop, on a 5 bar dongeon mob or solo boss, last green or blue one, on normal (5 or more barr life) mob a green drop and on one or 3 normal bar mob a grey drop). the loot rate should be adjusted also in dongeon so the loot should compensate a little the fact that only the finishing blow give a chance to get loot (only in epic dongeon)
hey dev, i understand that why you change the refine stones to be bop. but it's gonna hard for the majority of the ppl. i have a really really good solution for this issue, how about that, dev? all the refine stones we get from the hoard and fey will be bop, but decrease the ICD of the hoard and fey.Which is the best for ppl
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
2 - as i can read this change is mainly to prevent bot. how ever it will be practicaly no use against bot since bot mainly do not fight and just open chest. in reality it will only affect active farmer that use this system to sell item and with the price of 10k for 99 peridot, unless you can use bot, using those enchant is far less interresting than many other way.
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
Well, again, the major issue is that at the current drop rates/prices/requirements of legendary gear, bots are, to be frank, a necessary evil.
Now if they actualyl give IN GAME methods of getting significant RP for PLAYING the game. I 10000% agree. however with this continuing the trend of MASSIVE price sinks of each module that comes out. Only a select few who are AD giants will continue to keep up with BIS gear. Furthering the divide between new and old players.
The EASIEST fix to all of this would be to provide massive RP for REAL GEAR giving player who PLAY the game a real chance of farming real gear to use for RP. This would, however hurt their sales because people would play rather than pay ( go figure huh).
There is alot they can do to combat bots. This has been posted ad-nausium however and they continue to ignore it.
Why is an ancient sword received from a CN run worth so FEW RP? I mean that should be a rewarding item to put into an artifact no?
Or a person who farms for T2.5 PVP gear. That requires QUITE a bit of farming. Shouldnt that be worth 100k RP?! I think so...
Or even the lowbie T1 items... thats several hours of PVP play. Shouldnt that be worth something good like 10k RP?
I mean they are FORCING people to rely on bots with these INSANE RP requirements for gear.
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
i never says it's impossible but it way way much harder to make an efficient bot for fight and get drop from dragon enchant than making endless turn of chest in some session in sharandar. And that simply because when you are not on a solo map it harder to make a program since there is also players that can make move. how ever, that also becasue i know there is still some way to make bot against low mob lvl that i suggest to adjust the reward of those enchant with the quality of the mob killed (and maybe also depend of your lvl so let says a lvl 60 player that kill a lvl 59 or less mob will always drop the lowest kind of drop while shotting an epic boss should give the highest). like that you will have to count not on quantity but on quality to get higher RP.
0
Options
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
IRT thread
"Not retroactive" means there is no intention of making existing items bound, only items that are created after the patch.
Indeed, there is no way for the game to distinguish right now which peridots came from any individual source of peridots (for example), except for the wondrous coffer ones which are flagged to be BoA when they are spawned. But peridots from arcane coffers, skill nodes, store purchases, dragon hoards, lockboxes, SCA refining bags, refiner's caches, Tymora bags... none of these has distinct coding right now and they all stack together. It is multiple instances of the same item, with the same code.
What they'd be doing with the change is replacing the unbound drops you can get from enchants now with BoA versions of the same items. So the game will know to give you a BoA item at the time of the drop, but there is no way to implement it retroactively unless they completely screwed up and bound everything. The game can't sort through your stack of 88 peridots and determine that 40 of them came from dragon hoards and 48 came from other sources, and make only the 40 bound. Computers aren't that smart.
Yes 5 day . w/o any AD investment & w/o botting but i think any one hou cry here is actual a botter hou fear for his / her AD flow .
Any one hou have some little intelligence know its easy to make RP .
But i have only time for my char not for my wifes char too this is why i wanted to ask a dev and not you.
5.
No way you can upgrade anything to legendary in 5 days.
Weird.... You mean... Like we would actually get things for running dungeons?!
Im just going to Highlight the underlying themes here. If you guys want a list, HERE IS THIS GUYS LIST THAT WE ALL SUPPORT!!!!
HERE IS A LIST OF THE ABOVE POST FOR EASE OF ADDRESSING!!!!
1) increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module
2) Rewards for Actually Playing the Game
3) many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels 4) Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon
5) completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks 6) the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot 7) The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices 8) Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. (My Own insert here because Ive done a thread here before. A t2.5+ Epic should literally give in the range of 50k RP base. With 100k being doubled with "like items". This means you can feasibly farm for T2.5+ Items to gain RP from)
9) Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank
10)changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. 11) increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards
It won't as they will use their stone for making high ranking enchantments at potentially bargIn prices.
Unless, of course, Cryptic in all their wisdom make such enhancements BoA. Like they did for bound items bought via Steam probationary purchases.
^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^ but we cant use em for artefact equipment rp
[*]All enchantments and other items that give RP dropped through Fey Blessing, Dragon Hoard and Tymora's Blessing enchantments are now Bound to Account. This change is not retroactive.
Something here from my own perspective:
As the odd player with nearly unlimited playtime I am not bothered by needing to farm my own RP stuffs. I don't recall ever actually buying stacks of these. From time to time when I'm wanting fast AD I even sell mine. Not being able to do that will not be a problem though. Since it isn't my primary source of AD income.
What does bother me is the fact that its going to increase the amount of bag space I need. Like many players I let my gems pile up until I have a full stacks before refining them. Its just to tedious to sort through my inventory constantly clicking and dragging to refine or sort as you go. Is there any chance we could get some sort of enchant bag where these all go (bound or not)? Perhaps in the future such a bag could even be used in a system to auto-fill the refinement window.
The change to BtA refining items would probably pretty much be an unmitigated disaster for the game's overall player population, which would also affect profitability. It has become increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module; this would make it almost exponentially more so. For established players, it would mean their ability to advance further would become almost completely stymied.
One fundamental question is whether it's intended on the developer side that only whales should be able to attain the best stuff in the game, or whether that should also be open to free players who invest sufficient (and not excessive) time to actually playing the game. That aside, there are some other issues to consider which could be addressed alongside this issue.
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
I just had a total Nergasm reading this, holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if we got a single wish granted from our Developers it certainly should be THIS. DEVS PLEASE READ!!
Weird.... You mean... Like we would actually get things for running dungeons?! Im just going to Highlight the underlying themes here. If you guys want a list, HERE IS THIS GUYS LIST THAT WE ALL SUPPORT!!!!
So many incredible ideas in Macjaes post that would result in a much happier community!! Mods please consider the actions in Macjaes post, look how many people in the community are supporting this!! These suggestions are beasty and we need them so badly!!
Ty
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Have you tested this? This already does happen with other BTA stuff that we already get.
I hope your right, i just like to be sure.
tnx
Happened to me with Heros Feast XD It sucked so bad XD
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
hey dev, i understand that why you change the refine stones to be bop. but it's gonna hard for the majority of the ppl. i have a really really good solution for this issue, how about that, dev? all the refine stones we get from the hoard and fey will be bop, but decrease the ICD of the hoard and fey.Which is the best for ppl
i definitely agree with you, they either keep it the same, or just do what you said, that's one the best solution.
0
Options
lordfuzunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
edited November 2014
Feedback on the BtA change for Refine Point Items:
I've finally put my fingers on what's been bothering me beyond this change. It's the imbalance between Artifacts and Artifact Weapons. With Normal Artifacts I get an abundance of RP items Enhancements, Marks, etc. which are free and clear which cost zero AD to use.
On the other hand Artifact Gear does have an abundance of RP items, but the items are behind a pay wall. RP stones are stack behind having o pay AD to get Dragon Hoard Enchantments from the ToD Campaign Task. The normal zero AD enhancement drops (Azure, Darkm Radiant, etc) equivalents for Artifact Gear are the green and blue gear drops. But to make 100% use of them, you are stuck with a pay wall.
Dropped gear are unindentified, to make use them them you have to use Greater Identification Scrolls. You get some scrolls in drops, but nowhere near the numbers matching the number of gear drops. To use all of you gear drops, you have to buy stack of Greater Identification Scrolls at 125 AD a pop.
Suggestions: Overall this a big imbalance on being able to level up Artifact Gear. Player have been wanting a way of getting RPs for Artifact Gear by just playing. Some want the excess XP for payers to be used for RPs as an example. I want something like this myself.
There is an easy way of implementing which I believe would be easier in terms of coding than using XP. Remove the requirement for level 60 gear to be identified before it can be used for RPs in Artifact Gear. This would be the equivalent of Dark, Azure, Radiant enactments as RP for normal Artifacts.
Comments
.....
Weird.... You mean... Like we would actually get things for running dungeons?!
Im just going to Highlight the underlying themes here. If you guys want a list, HERE IS THIS GUYS LIST THAT WE ALL SUPPORT!!!!
HERE IS A LIST OF THE ABOVE POST FOR EASE OF ADDRESSING!!!!
1) increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module
2) Rewards for Actually Playing the Game
3) many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels
4) Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon
5) completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks
6) the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot
7) The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices
8) Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. (My Own insert here because Ive done a thread here before. A t2.5+ Epic should literally give in the range of 50k RP base. With 100k being doubled with "like items". This means you can feasibly farm for T2.5+ Items to gain RP from)
9) Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank
10)changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players.
11) increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards
MORE daily quests for actual game play rather than "showing up" type things. For instance:
Current PVP quest is DO 4 games or WIN 2. This SHOULD be split into a few different rotating daily pvp quests. You can easily come up with a large list of 30+ quests (an easy idea is to copy the pvp campaign quests but on a smaller scale.)
So each day Rhix offers 1 PVP quest for EACH type of PVP:
1) Domination
2) Open World PVP
3) GG
You can copy the boons so things LIKE "Player revives" or "player kills under 50% HP" etc.
Now you would have THREE quests per day, all giving real incentive for actual play (not something a bot can easily do) and then give us REAL rewards for those daily quests.
Id also submit that it would be a great idea to have a system in place where if a person completes all three pvp daily quests, Rhix then automatically resets and provides another 3 quests.
Again, the rewards should be some type of "coffer" or "bag" that has a chance to return several different RP related items (or even AD).
This puts power back in the players hands and gives actual objectives to accomplish in PVP rather than just "show up". Heck you can even KEEP in place the existing daily for AD. Just tack these ontop of them.
How does it protect us? It didn't damage us, yet people will now be damaged by the wide gap that will exist if they go through with it and leave it as it is.
Any one can have Dragon hoard its easy to obtain and any one can farm bound RP to use it on her self but bots cannot sell it (cuz they will farm bound rp ) and will not mess up the AH .
There was a time when 1 rank 4 was 4k ad in AH.
Again, how does that protect us? It just makes it less available to us? We don't get enough rp to realistically farm an artifact piece to legendary. What we can do currently is save our AD and buy it. Being bound, no-one can realistically afford them while currently you can if you've been playing (or paying) a lot or for a long time. If we wanted AD, we can no longer sell our drops too.
the change done on dragon enchant and the two others kinds of dropping enchant are bad new for player for many reasons.
1- both drop enchant from thoses one will take now twice amount of inventory since now you will have two sort for each of any type. Just for this part having none or all of them attach to account would be better (not only those that drop with enchant but also those from chest). there is too much of different kind of enchant to actually to play with both attach to account and not attach. it will require just for this change 2 more bag just to carry it
2 - as i can read this change is mainly to prevent bot. how ever it will be practicaly no use against bot since bot mainly do not fight and just open chest. in reality it will only affect active farmer that use this system to sell item and with the price of 10k for 99 peridot, unless you can use bot, using those enchant is far less interresting than many other way.
3 legendary actual RP lvl needed is too high to be reasonnably achieved without using money, HV or a cheat way like bot or other. based on my estimate time by just farming for enchant you will need around 400 - 600 hour (with enchant already up) of intense farming to up 1 item to legendary (with 4 slot of enchant lvl 9-10). Since we now speak of 7 artefact,. by playing let say 3 h per days, it 2-3 years of farming.
So to resume as your change is now it will mainly not solve your problem of bot or gold farmer but it will mainly affect your real player.
Here suggests if you want to diminuish bot
- 1 put all of them what ever source is attach to account.
- 2 put a system that also allow you to up artefact with XP (2 way, a part of XP won goes on artefact, or i think is better, each time you get 250 k xp you can up 1 artefact for 1 lvl )
- 3 for the dragon enchant and the two other, make the quality of the drop depend of the quality of the mob killed ( the drop from a epic dongeon boss should be better than the drop from a 1 bar life mob. (ex: if the dragon enchant activate on a epic dongeon boss kill, you should get an opal or lvl just bellow, if it activate on an epic big life mob you should get a blue drop, on a 5 bar dongeon mob or solo boss, last green or blue one, on normal (5 or more barr life) mob a green drop and on one or 3 normal bar mob a grey drop). the loot rate should be adjusted also in dongeon so the loot should compensate a little the fact that only the finishing blow give a chance to get loot (only in epic dongeon)
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Well, again, the major issue is that at the current drop rates/prices/requirements of legendary gear, bots are, to be frank, a necessary evil.
Now if they actualyl give IN GAME methods of getting significant RP for PLAYING the game. I 10000% agree. however with this continuing the trend of MASSIVE price sinks of each module that comes out. Only a select few who are AD giants will continue to keep up with BIS gear. Furthering the divide between new and old players.
The EASIEST fix to all of this would be to provide massive RP for REAL GEAR giving player who PLAY the game a real chance of farming real gear to use for RP. This would, however hurt their sales because people would play rather than pay ( go figure huh).
There is alot they can do to combat bots. This has been posted ad-nausium however and they continue to ignore it.
Why is an ancient sword received from a CN run worth so FEW RP? I mean that should be a rewarding item to put into an artifact no?
Or a person who farms for T2.5 PVP gear. That requires QUITE a bit of farming. Shouldnt that be worth 100k RP?! I think so...
Or even the lowbie T1 items... thats several hours of PVP play. Shouldnt that be worth something good like 10k RP?
I mean they are FORCING people to rely on bots with these INSANE RP requirements for gear.
i never says it's impossible but it way way much harder to make an efficient bot for fight and get drop from dragon enchant than making endless turn of chest in some session in sharandar. And that simply because when you are not on a solo map it harder to make a program since there is also players that can make move. how ever, that also becasue i know there is still some way to make bot against low mob lvl that i suggest to adjust the reward of those enchant with the quality of the mob killed (and maybe also depend of your lvl so let says a lvl 60 player that kill a lvl 59 or less mob will always drop the lowest kind of drop while shotting an epic boss should give the highest). like that you will have to count not on quantity but on quality to get higher RP.
"Not retroactive" means there is no intention of making existing items bound, only items that are created after the patch.
Indeed, there is no way for the game to distinguish right now which peridots came from any individual source of peridots (for example), except for the wondrous coffer ones which are flagged to be BoA when they are spawned. But peridots from arcane coffers, skill nodes, store purchases, dragon hoards, lockboxes, SCA refining bags, refiner's caches, Tymora bags... none of these has distinct coding right now and they all stack together. It is multiple instances of the same item, with the same code.
What they'd be doing with the change is replacing the unbound drops you can get from enchants now with BoA versions of the same items. So the game will know to give you a BoA item at the time of the drop, but there is no way to implement it retroactively unless they completely screwed up and bound everything. The game can't sort through your stack of 88 peridots and determine that 40 of them came from dragon hoards and 48 came from other sources, and make only the 40 bound. Computers aren't that smart.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Bots need to go
Loved it, practically all good choices.
^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^ but we cant use em for artefact equipment rp
Something here from my own perspective:
As the odd player with nearly unlimited playtime I am not bothered by needing to farm my own RP stuffs. I don't recall ever actually buying stacks of these. From time to time when I'm wanting fast AD I even sell mine. Not being able to do that will not be a problem though. Since it isn't my primary source of AD income.
What does bother me is the fact that its going to increase the amount of bag space I need. Like many players I let my gems pile up until I have a full stacks before refining them. Its just to tedious to sort through my inventory constantly clicking and dragging to refine or sort as you go. Is there any chance we could get some sort of enchant bag where these all go (bound or not)? Perhaps in the future such a bag could even be used in a system to auto-fill the refinement window.
So many incredible ideas in Macjaes post that would result in a much happier community!! Mods please consider the actions in Macjaes post, look how many people in the community are supporting this!! These suggestions are beasty and we need them so badly!!
Ty
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
they can't be stacked together, look at them as 2 different items
so whatever you pick up that are BtA will create a new stack
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Happened to me with Heros Feast XD It sucked so bad XD
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Anyone know what the next step is when they ignore all these proposed changes?
i definitely agree with you, they either keep it the same, or just do what you said, that's one the best solution.
I've finally put my fingers on what's been bothering me beyond this change. It's the imbalance between Artifacts and Artifact Weapons. With Normal Artifacts I get an abundance of RP items Enhancements, Marks, etc. which are free and clear which cost zero AD to use.
On the other hand Artifact Gear does have an abundance of RP items, but the items are behind a pay wall. RP stones are stack behind having o pay AD to get Dragon Hoard Enchantments from the ToD Campaign Task. The normal zero AD enhancement drops (Azure, Darkm Radiant, etc) equivalents for Artifact Gear are the green and blue gear drops. But to make 100% use of them, you are stuck with a pay wall.
Dropped gear are unindentified, to make use them them you have to use Greater Identification Scrolls. You get some scrolls in drops, but nowhere near the numbers matching the number of gear drops. To use all of you gear drops, you have to buy stack of Greater Identification Scrolls at 125 AD a pop.
Suggestions:
Overall this a big imbalance on being able to level up Artifact Gear. Player have been wanting a way of getting RPs for Artifact Gear by just playing. Some want the excess XP for payers to be used for RPs as an example. I want something like this myself.
There is an easy way of implementing which I believe would be easier in terms of coding than using XP. Remove the requirement for level 60 gear to be identified before it can be used for RPs in Artifact Gear. This would be the equivalent of Dark, Azure, Radiant enactments as RP for normal Artifacts.