This will bring not balance at all to the game... As i said on a deleted post (seems like 'sarcams' to criticize stupid stuff is not "feedback" but type lies and false/misleading reports/explanations are...), now, the FotM class will be (again) CW with Renegade Tree... I do not really understand why is so hard to you, devs, to make al real balance over all classes, not ones prevailing over the others each time you try to "balance" the game... yet, the funnies thing at all on this matter is that, ALWAYS, the "balanced class" are CW and HR classes...
Nope, the new flavor of the month classes are still gonna be the TR
0
arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
[*]All enchantments and other items that give RP dropped through Fey Blessing, Dragon Hoard and Tymora's Blessing enchantments are now Bound to Account. This change is not retroactive.
Please for the love of Tymora don't do this, If you absolutely insist on going through this change drop the RP requirement of Artifact equip by 50% , Remove the Enchants cool down, increase the drop chance % on each level of the enchant and finally increase the RP value on all Green / Blue / Epic equipment.
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
I just had a total Nergasm reading this, holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if we got a single wish granted from our Developers it certainly should be THIS. DEVS PLEASE READ!!
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Having played during Open Beta, survived "Caturday", and seen this ban-aid before, it will simply cause the botters to shift to another means of botting, it will not fix the underlying cause. They'll simply move to the next non-BoA easily attainable form of virtual income, which will then become BoA, and the cycle repeats. This solution in a sense, makes botting more profitable in the long run as the botters creep into ever higher markets. The last time there was a mass BoA upgrade, the economy exploded with inflation and they had to take sufficient measures to combat the problem (Sgt. Knox companion.) Economical problems have plagued the overall game off and on since before launch, "Caturday" survivors know this. In my opinion, the cash shop and bazaar prices are 20-30% too high for key items, or the key items are unavailable, forcing the need to farm or (in exploiters' case, bot) for equivalents. The only time I consider spending the small amount of Zen I am able to afford in my real world budget, is when something is on sale (usually 20-30% off.) There are many other ways to combat the botting situation than making things BoA, they likely require more time and payroll investment, but if they'd simply invest in that early, they'll resolve the situation rather than watch it become more and more fiscally difficult to ignore. I'm not a programmer, so I don't have any suggestions on solutions. I just have observations of past practices and the effects. The source for the bots needs to be addressed, or they'll continue to re-occur causing increasing problems.
"I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..." Featured Foundry Quest:Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Having played during Open Beta, survived "Caturday", and seen this ban-aid before, it will simply cause the botters to shift to another means of botting, it will not fix the underlying cause. They'll simply move to the next non-BoA easily attainable form of virtual income, which will then become BoA, and the cycle repeats. This solution in a sense, makes botting more profitable in the long run as the botters creep into ever higher markets. The last time there was a mass BoA upgrade, the economy exploded with inflation and they had to take sufficient measures to combat the problem (Sgt. Knox companion.) Economical problems have plagued the overall game off and on since before launch, "Caturday" survivors know this. In my opinion, the cash shop and bazaar prices are 20-30% too high for key items, or the key items are unavailable, forcing the need to farm or (in exploiters' case, bot) for equivalents. The only time I consider spending the small amount of Zen I am able to afford in my real world budget, is when something is on sale (usually 20-30% off.) There are many other ways to combat the botting situation than making things BoA, they likely require more time and payroll investment, but if they'd simply invest in that early, they'll resolve the situation rather than watch it become more and more fiscally difficult to ignore. I'm not a programmer, so I don't have any suggestions on solutions. I just have observations of past practices and the effects. The source for the bots needs to be addressed, or they'll continue to re-occur causing increasing problems.
I think they need to reassess how making refining items from Fey and Dragon Hoard's BoA is going to hurt majority of the players. When they previously had refining items from Coffer of Wondrous Augmentation BoA, it didn't have a very big impact on the game, as people can still purchases wards and enchantments made from wards at an affordable price on AH.
However, this situation is different. They need to put themselves in the player's shoes. Work out the cost for a player to get BiS gear, whether it is by purchasing Zen, or playing the game, or a combination of both without buying any RP that is sold on the AH. Those cost (and time spent farming) have already been worked out by some players in other posts, and they're just some crazy numbers that a normal gamer would not be able to achieve.
So I suggest offering players some realistic alternatives before even thinking about going ahead with this decision (of making certain RP BoA). Right now a lot of loyal players are giving suggestions to make this game better and don't want it to die. Don't just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> these guys off. If you treat your customers well, then you will have a good long term relationship with them.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
0
llewelyn89Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 129Arc User
edited November 2014
One of my biggest problem with the change to enchants & refining options is bag space.
I'll live with the bound bit and the extra time everything will take, but now I'm going to need 2 slots for all rank 4s (an extra 10 when there isn't an event running) and pearls, peridots, refining stones, etc (probably another 5 or 6 most days) and it's going to be problematic.
I don't want to stop every 5 or 10 minutes and refine so I have bag space.
Could our introductory bag (forget its name) be expanded?
Or could we get another bag slot? I'll pay for another greater bag of holding if I can use it fully - but they are really devalued when you have to lose another bag to replace it.
Not impressed with mod 5 just because it has beloved Tiamat in it. Live broadcast showed how laggy it will be running a 25 man raid with everyone tossin off special effects, and the devs on the livestream claimed nothing is set in concrete, as 2 weeks till launch would be enough time to tweek n adjust graphic performance.
Wasn't the siege of neverwinter just 12 or 15 people per instance? Performance went down the toilet there. Nearly double the people though? This game's engine can't handle that so I don't know why they would continue with it.
Just popping in real quick to let you all know that I have forwarded some of your concerns to some of our developers before the workday ended and intend to follow up Monday to discuss the issue.
That you all for your feedback. These are the sorts of issues we hope the preview shard can catch for us so we can make sure we are making the best decisions for the game.
panderus, HR Trapper has no control still! Old bugs weren't fixed!
Ancient Roots feat doesn't affect roots duration (there is no +5 seconds to strong root)
Biting Snares +60% control bonus doesn't work: actually bonus same as before with +30% (without this feat roots work 2sec, with this feat +30% in m4 currently roots work 3sec, with this feat +60% on preview roots work 3sec again, but 4sec should!)
Also Biting Snares control duration bonus doesn't affect on stun/daze from Disruptive Shot and Bear Trap - this is a very big problem in pvp!
new one for Swiftness of the Fox found:
sometimes cd reduction bonus doesn't work (does nothing with current cds of powers). reloging can solve this issue
Trapper tree positioned as control hr tree, but all control is totally broken, please fix it!
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited November 2014
What the RP BtA change means is that there is virtually no chance for me to get my items to legendary status. I have been spending the AD I earn from leadership and from selling loot on the AH on buying peridots and resonance stones. Moreover, I have in the past spent a considerable amount of mobney on Zen, exchanged that for AD (or for items I have then sold for AD), and spent the AD on refinement items.
As a result, I have 3 legendary items (belt and two artifacts) and was working my way towards getting my third artifact and main hand to Legendary as well.
Wit this change that is no longer feasible. I have no reason to spend money on the game any more, and very little motivation to play it any more.
Simple solution to make both sides happy - remove internal cooldown from those enchantments and either lower amount of RP needed for legendary or give us special refining stones (bound) which we can earn through some quests.
Then no one will complain about drops being BtA and bots will be useless since you will be able to upgrade on your own.
why not putting the drop from dragon enchant or other depend also of the mob lvl (for exemple the drop lvl can be depend of the amount of damage you did on the mob)
What about new profession, where we can get decent (decent for us players) amount of refining stones which will be BoA...???
Your solution will kill most of the playerbase...
why not putting the drop from dragon enchant or other depend also of the mob lvl (for exemple the drop lvl can be depend of the amount of damage you did on the mob)
It is not fair... All the classes have different DMG output... >>> CW's DMG vs. DC's DMG - not comparable
As a result, I have 3 legendary items (belt and two artifacts) and was working my way towards getting my third artifact and main hand to Legendary as well.
Wit this change that is no longer feasible.
Haha that is how "legendary" those equipment pieces are - you almost got 4 of them in like what? 2 month? redicolous
The change to BtA refining items would probably pretty much be an unmitigated disaster for the game's overall player population, which would also affect profitability. It has become increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module; this would make it almost exponentially more so. For established players, it would mean their ability to advance further would become almost completely stymied.
One fundamental question is whether it's intended on the developer side that only whales should be able to attain the best stuff in the game, or whether that should also be open to free players who invest sufficient (and not excessive) time to actually playing the game. That aside, there are some other issues to consider which could be addressed alongside this issue.
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
This guy is definitely on the right track. If every patch was more along these lines as far as being in the right direction, we would have a pretty sick game right now. However, every patch seems to take 2 steps forward for one class, and 5 steps backward for the other classes. The next patch then removes those 2 steps forward and gives the 5 steps back a step forward but in only one feat tree.
- The problem with BIG changes is you set the new bar at which a player rates the class. GF's rate the class now based off a broken item, rather than their class. Instead of fixing the glyph (removing it) - the entire class was nerfed considerably.
- DC's will now base their idea of what a DC should be off the PTR mod 5 DC who can literally 1v1 any class, and yes, even HR's can't kill some of the best DC's while the DC can kill 90% of everyone it faces. Did anyone ever play DND? Sure a multi-class DC could be viable for combat, but unless spec'd with bard/red dragon desciple, or monk/rogue they weren't THAT tanky (ignoring sanctuary), and their DPS wasn't that great either, however their buffs were like... BEAST MODE.
- GWF's base it off mod 2 (god mode) or mod 3 (demi-god 3 hit mode). However, ignoring their 40-50k AOE builds of late, they seem to be more balanced now than ever.
- CW's have always been viable. Sure, mod 3 it took some skill, before shard was nerfed it was VERY based on skill in deciding if he would win or not, mod 4 has made it much more of an easy mode class
- HR's were admitted as the favorite dev class from the start. They have been ages beyond any class in self healing, unmitigatable damage, and their ability to wreck an enemy node or home node for the entire game unless mobbbbbed to death.
- I think your changes to the classes are fine. You made CW's able to not be timed anymore, now we have to anticipate and hope to get their rotations down, or we die. But CW's in older DND could NUKE people so I'm fine with that, however with certain things being server side, and others client based (I know you have your reasons because of people using macros), it makes the fight a very very skewed rock paper scissors.
- My suggestion. Take the HR. The fan boy favorite, who the players love to play, and the Dev's love to see win and hate to nerf. (We get it, you dont heal as much yet still can be nearly full hp from soulforge in one rotation now... so you're still fine). And base all the other classes off of that. Make them the standard, and base what YOU (we play your game), see fit for each classes role (again, you decide this) vs an HR. If DC's should be healers, they should heal more than HR. If TR's should be the highest single target DPS, make them that way vs HR single target, If GF's are tanks, scale their tanking ability to surpass that of an HR (it's not even close right now). I think then you would fine more balance, rather than this uproar of CC every patch as one path gets obliterated, and one path becomes the silk road to glory (we all QQ and spend 75k ad to respec). I think you would find if you forced us to spend AD/zen LESS, and let us enjoy the game, we would actually end up spending more on your game rather than other games.
I'm not sure how this exactly pertains to this patch, and if this is considered slander. But it is more just a really really big fan of DND and especially Neverwinter Nights (the first one of course), and lastly someone who wants to see the latest game with Neverwinter on the title be as good as it can be.
The change to BtA refining items would probably pretty much be an unmitigated disaster for the game's overall player population, which would also affect profitability. It has become increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module; this would make it almost exponentially more so. For established players, it would mean their ability to advance further would become almost completely stymied.
One fundamental question is whether it's intended on the developer side that only whales should be able to attain the best stuff in the game, or whether that should also be open to free players who invest sufficient (and not excessive) time to actually playing the game. That aside, there are some other issues to consider which could be addressed alongside this issue.
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
This guy knows his stuff!
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
The change to BtA refining items would probably pretty much be an unmitigated disaster for the game's overall player population, which would also affect profitability. It has become increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module; this would make it almost exponentially more so. For established players, it would mean their ability to advance further would become almost completely stymied.
One fundamental question is whether it's intended on the developer side that only whales should be able to attain the best stuff in the game, or whether that should also be open to free players who invest sufficient (and not excessive) time to actually playing the game. That aside, there are some other issues to consider which could be addressed alongside this issue.
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
Quoting this one more, because this guy gets it.
Sorry PW, but you will NOT fight off bots by making everything harder for the player.
Perhaps you try to hoard more money from zen store refining items, but players will simply resist that on a large scale. I could have a CAR for the price of upgrading artifact weapon to legendary. I'm not saying it should be easy, but it shouldn't take months of daily grind or half of your salary to get to it.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
All enchantments and other items that give RP dropped through Fey Blessing, Dragon Hoard and Tymora's Blessing enchantments are now Bound to Account. This change is not retroactive.
HI panderus i have a few question .
If i buy now few stack of RP now from AH they will be bound to my account after this patch note go to live?
Yes ? or Not?
And if i use now hoard or any affected enchant and i got some rp points in enchant from will be bound after patch or they will be normal as y say "its retroactive".
So if i understand it rigth before patch they are not bound and after patch any enchant i got after update from hoard will be bound.
Is this rigth?
Another question what if i use the bound enchants (i got from hoard or fey) to refine some lets say Radiant enchant from 4-to-5 they will be bound after i used bound rp on it?
If i want to upgrade some bound radiant 4-to-5 they will be bound after i upgraded it ?
Feedback : Any way i 100% support this change time to deal with those bots .
PS:To all how are aganst this change farming RP with those enchants you can still upgrade your artifacts this change only effect bots and not active players. I think this is a good move and protect us real players.
The change to BtA refining items would probably pretty much be an unmitigated disaster for the game's overall player population, which would also affect profitability. It has become increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module; this would make it almost exponentially more so. For established players, it would mean their ability to advance further would become almost completely stymied.
One fundamental question is whether it's intended on the developer side that only whales should be able to attain the best stuff in the game, or whether that should also be open to free players who invest sufficient (and not excessive) time to actually playing the game. That aside, there are some other issues to consider which could be addressed alongside this issue.
Rewards for Actually Playing the Game: For a while, large sections of the player base has become increasingly frustrated with the comparative lack of rewards for actually playing through the content. A large part of the problem here is in the lottery-like nature of gaining the very rare rewards that give meaningful payouts (like artifact belts, artifacts or boon tomes) while the more consistent rewards are fairly niggardly. The main way that some players make profit towards advancement is by trading on the Auction House (which is inherently exploitative of other players) and spending a lot of time clicking through leadership alts (which is inherently inflationary of the total AD supply), not actually playing. Bots provided a vital service for players here in that it made those profits spendable for advancement at a cost that's reasonable in terms of time invested.
The Current Solution Suffers From Mission Creep: Making these enchants bound to account will also cause another issue; botterss will use them to refine non-BtA enchantments, which while it may decrease the returns on some refining stones (like resonance stones), will still allow them to harvest most of the value, and sink the higher-end enchantment market in the process. So the logical extension of the current policy will be to make those BtA too, or institute some other measure that punishes players most of all.
The core problem is really that many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels; both in terms of the ability to attain rewards from playing, and in terms of the ability to acquire rewards from the market. It does benefit the player group that sells such materials themselves, but those would benefit even more from a solution that would raise overall rewards from playing in such a way that it preempts bots.
That said, here are some proposals and reasonings behind them:
Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon (like Biggrin's Tomb or Arcane Reservoir) that they complete. As completing the epic boss fights probably isn't the bots' forte (and it would likely take far too much effort to gear/program bots to do so), this would effectively move that market from bot-driven to player-driven. Each dungeon should give at minimum an Aquamarine or Flawless Sapphire, with a chance of a better item, like a Black Opal, Blood Ruby or Brilliant Diamond (possibly as a boss drop). Higher-tier content should give better rewards or have higher drop rates on better refining stones. Most or even all epic dungeon bosses should drop a BoE refining stone or mark in addition to the current rewards they give (and not green stuff either).
Along similar lines, the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot during foundry hour. Alternately, or in addition, completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks. Boosting foundry rewards is good for fostering more variety in-game, which is probably good for player retention.
The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices, and to reflect the increasing refining requirements of the game. Their random refining stone drops should all be boosted by at least one step: Peridots to Aquamarines, Aquamarines to Flawless Sapphires, rank 4s to rank 5s, and rank 5s to rank 6s. Maybe give a chance for higher-tier refining stone drops too. All BtA.
Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. This would increase player-specific rewards for some activities; notably completing end-game bosses and using PvP gear bought from glory as refining materials. Since equipment can only be used to refine bound items, and the glory gear is BoP (should be changed to BtA) already, this will benefit legitimate players and give a reasonable ability to advance through playing PvP too, without inviting more bots.
Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank. These are required to advance artifact items, and the current costs are probably hurting newer players most of all. This would help players and further dampen the incentives to bot skill nodes.
While you're working on issues related to bots, changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players. This would mean: Removal of the ability to salvage PvP gear, awarding some RAD for each PvP *victory* (as bots aren't generally good at winning), double the victory RAD during PvP hour, and reducing or eliminating the RAD rewards for the daily quest. This would also hit those players who "only do PvP for the daily", which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. In addition, each player on a winning team could be awarded 1-3 BtA peridots, scaling like the base glory rewards for longer games.
If the drops from Dragon Hoard and Fey Blessing Enchantments are made BtA, the percentage chance of a drop should increase a bit, giving greater periodic rewards for using them.
The issue of bots crafting higher-tier enchantments and selling those instead could be averted to some extent by increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards. Players could earn a Preservation Ward for completing a certain number of epic dungeons or winning a certain number of PvP games. Bots would have less ability to access these rewards, which would make their ward costs slightly higher, driving down their competitiveness compared to legitimate players. The number of wards given shouldn't be great enough to hurt Zen Store sales (and may in fact encourage sales, as players may attempt to fuse more often with more free wards and more refining points), just enough to dent bot price margins.
Weird.... You mean... Like we would actually get things for running dungeons?!
Im just going to Highlight the underlying themes here. If you guys want a list, HERE IS THIS GUYS LIST THAT WE ALL SUPPORT!!!!
HERE IS A LIST OF THE ABOVE POST FOR EASE OF ADDRESSING!!!!
1) increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module
2) Rewards for Actually Playing the Game
3) many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels
4) Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon
5) completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks
6) the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot
7) The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices
8) Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. (My Own insert here because Ive done a thread here before. A t2.5+ Epic should literally give in the range of 50k RP base. With 100k being doubled with "like items". This means you can feasibly farm for T2.5+ Items to gain RP from)
9) Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank
10)changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players.
11) increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards
My added to the above list (that was macjae's list) is this:
MORE daily quests for actual game play rather than "showing up" type things. For instance:
Current PVP quest is DO 4 games or WIN 2. This SHOULD be split into a few different rotating daily pvp quests. You can easily come up with a large list of 30+ quests (an easy idea is to copy the pvp campaign quests but on a smaller scale.)
So each day Rhix offers 1 PVP quest for EACH type of PVP:
1) Domination
2) Open World PVP
3) GG
You can copy the boons so things LIKE "Player revives" or "player kills under 50% HP" etc.
Now you would have THREE quests per day, all giving real incentive for actual play (not something a bot can easily do) and then give us REAL rewards for those daily quests.
Id also submit that it would be a great idea to have a system in place where if a person completes all three pvp daily quests, Rhix then automatically resets and provides another 3 quests.
Again, the rewards should be some type of "coffer" or "bag" that has a chance to return several different RP related items (or even AD).
This puts power back in the players hands and gives actual objectives to accomplish in PVP rather than just "show up". Heck you can even KEEP in place the existing daily for AD. Just tack these ontop of them.
PS:To all how are aganst this change farming RP with those enchants you can still upgrade your artifacts this change only effect bots and not active players. I think this is a good move and protect us real players.
How does it protect us? It didn't damage us, yet people will now be damaged by the wide gap that will exist if they go through with it and leave it as it is.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
How does it protect us? It didn't damage us, yet people will now be damaged by the wide gap that will exist if they go through with it and leave it as it is.
Any one can have Dragon hoard its easy to obtain and any one can farm bound RP to use it on her self but bots cannot sell it (cuz they will farm bound rp ) and will not mess up the AH .
There was a time when 1 rank 4 was 4k ad in AH.
Any one can have Dragon hoard its easy to obtain and any one can farm bound RP to use it on her self but bots cannot sell it (cuz they will farm bound rp ) and will not mess up the AH .
There was a time when 1 rank 4 was 4k ad in AH.
Again, how does that protect us? It just makes it less available to us? We don't get enough rp to realistically farm an artifact piece to legendary. What we can do currently is save our AD and buy it. Being bound, no-one can realistically afford them while currently you can if you've been playing (or paying) a lot or for a long time. If we wanted AD, we can no longer sell our drops too.
the change done on dragon enchant and the two others kinds of dropping enchant are bad new for player for many reasons.
1- both drop enchant from thoses one will take now twice amount of inventory since now you will have two sort for each of any type. Just for this part having none or all of them attach to account would be better (not only those that drop with enchant but also those from chest). there is too much of different kind of enchant to actually to play with both attach to account and not attach. it will require just for this change 2 more bag just to carry it
2 - as i can read this change is mainly to prevent bot. how ever it will be practicaly no use against bot since bot mainly do not fight and just open chest. in reality it will only affect active farmer that use this system to sell item and with the price of 10k for 99 peridot, unless you can use bot, using those enchant is far less interresting than many other way.
3 legendary actual RP lvl needed is too high to be reasonnably achieved without using money, HV or a cheat way like bot or other. based on my estimate time by just farming for enchant you will need around 400 - 600 hour (with enchant already up) of intense farming to up 1 item to legendary (with 4 slot of enchant lvl 9-10). Since we now speak of 7 artefact,. by playing let say 3 h per days, it 2-3 years of farming.
So to resume as your change is now it will mainly not solve your problem of bot or gold farmer but it will mainly affect your real player.
Here suggests if you want to diminuish bot
- 1 put all of them what ever source is attach to account.
- 2 put a system that also allow you to up artefact with XP (2 way, a part of XP won goes on artefact, or i think is better, each time you get 250 k xp you can up 1 artefact for 1 lvl )
- 3 for the dragon enchant and the two other, make the quality of the drop depend of the quality of the mob killed ( the drop from a epic dongeon boss should be better than the drop from a 1 bar life mob. (ex: if the dragon enchant activate on a epic dongeon boss kill, you should get an opal or lvl just bellow, if it activate on an epic big life mob you should get a blue drop, on a 5 bar dongeon mob or solo boss, last green or blue one, on normal (5 or more barr life) mob a green drop and on one or 3 normal bar mob a grey drop). the loot rate should be adjusted also in dongeon so the loot should compensate a little the fact that only the finishing blow give a chance to get loot (only in epic dongeon)
hey dev, i understand that why you change the refine stones to be bop. but it's gonna hard for the majority of the ppl. i have a really really good solution for this issue, how about that, dev? all the refine stones we get from the hoard and fey will be bop, but decrease the ICD of the hoard and fey.Which is the best for ppl
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
2 - as i can read this change is mainly to prevent bot. how ever it will be practicaly no use against bot since bot mainly do not fight and just open chest. in reality it will only affect active farmer that use this system to sell item and with the price of 10k for 99 peridot, unless you can use bot, using those enchant is far less interresting than many other way.
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
Well, again, the major issue is that at the current drop rates/prices/requirements of legendary gear, bots are, to be frank, a necessary evil.
Now if they actualyl give IN GAME methods of getting significant RP for PLAYING the game. I 10000% agree. however with this continuing the trend of MASSIVE price sinks of each module that comes out. Only a select few who are AD giants will continue to keep up with BIS gear. Furthering the divide between new and old players.
The EASIEST fix to all of this would be to provide massive RP for REAL GEAR giving player who PLAY the game a real chance of farming real gear to use for RP. This would, however hurt their sales because people would play rather than pay ( go figure huh).
There is alot they can do to combat bots. This has been posted ad-nausium however and they continue to ignore it.
Why is an ancient sword received from a CN run worth so FEW RP? I mean that should be a rewarding item to put into an artifact no?
Or a person who farms for T2.5 PVP gear. That requires QUITE a bit of farming. Shouldnt that be worth 100k RP?! I think so...
Or even the lowbie T1 items... thats several hours of PVP play. Shouldnt that be worth something good like 10k RP?
I mean they are FORCING people to rely on bots with these INSANE RP requirements for gear.
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
i never says it's impossible but it way way much harder to make an efficient bot for fight and get drop from dragon enchant than making endless turn of chest in some session in sharandar. And that simply because when you are not on a solo map it harder to make a program since there is also players that can make move. how ever, that also becasue i know there is still some way to make bot against low mob lvl that i suggest to adjust the reward of those enchant with the quality of the mob killed (and maybe also depend of your lvl so let says a lvl 60 player that kill a lvl 59 or less mob will always drop the lowest kind of drop while shotting an epic boss should give the highest). like that you will have to count not on quantity but on quality to get higher RP.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
IRT thread
"Not retroactive" means there is no intention of making existing items bound, only items that are created after the patch.
Indeed, there is no way for the game to distinguish right now which peridots came from any individual source of peridots (for example), except for the wondrous coffer ones which are flagged to be BoA when they are spawned. But peridots from arcane coffers, skill nodes, store purchases, dragon hoards, lockboxes, SCA refining bags, refiner's caches, Tymora bags... none of these has distinct coding right now and they all stack together. It is multiple instances of the same item, with the same code.
What they'd be doing with the change is replacing the unbound drops you can get from enchants now with BoA versions of the same items. So the game will know to give you a BoA item at the time of the drop, but there is no way to implement it retroactively unless they completely screwed up and bound everything. The game can't sort through your stack of 88 peridots and determine that 40 of them came from dragon hoards and 48 came from other sources, and make only the 40 bound. Computers aren't that smart.
Comments
Nope, the new flavor of the month classes are still gonna be the TR
Please for the love of Tymora don't do this, If you absolutely insist on going through this change drop the RP requirement of Artifact equip by 50% , Remove the Enchants cool down, increase the drop chance % on each level of the enchant and finally increase the RP value on all Green / Blue / Epic equipment.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
I just had a total Nergasm reading this, holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if we got a single wish granted from our Developers it certainly should be THIS. DEVS PLEASE READ!!
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
Been here since caturday too.
Wisdom in this post.
+1
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
However, this situation is different. They need to put themselves in the player's shoes. Work out the cost for a player to get BiS gear, whether it is by purchasing Zen, or playing the game, or a combination of both without buying any RP that is sold on the AH. Those cost (and time spent farming) have already been worked out by some players in other posts, and they're just some crazy numbers that a normal gamer would not be able to achieve.
So I suggest offering players some realistic alternatives before even thinking about going ahead with this decision (of making certain RP BoA). Right now a lot of loyal players are giving suggestions to make this game better and don't want it to die. Don't just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> these guys off. If you treat your customers well, then you will have a good long term relationship with them.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
I'll live with the bound bit and the extra time everything will take, but now I'm going to need 2 slots for all rank 4s (an extra 10 when there isn't an event running) and pearls, peridots, refining stones, etc (probably another 5 or 6 most days) and it's going to be problematic.
I don't want to stop every 5 or 10 minutes and refine so I have bag space.
Could our introductory bag (forget its name) be expanded?
Or could we get another bag slot? I'll pay for another greater bag of holding if I can use it fully - but they are really devalued when you have to lose another bag to replace it.
What Class Are You?
Wasn't the siege of neverwinter just 12 or 15 people per instance? Performance went down the toilet there. Nearly double the people though? This game's engine can't handle that so I don't know why they would continue with it.
panderus, HR Trapper has no control still! Old bugs weren't fixed!
Ancient Roots feat doesn't affect roots duration (there is no +5 seconds to strong root)
Biting Snares +60% control bonus doesn't work: actually bonus same as before with +30% (without this feat roots work 2sec, with this feat +30% in m4 currently roots work 3sec, with this feat +60% on preview roots work 3sec again, but 4sec should!)
Also Biting Snares control duration bonus doesn't affect on stun/daze from Disruptive Shot and Bear Trap - this is a very big problem in pvp!
new one for Swiftness of the Fox found:
sometimes cd reduction bonus doesn't work (does nothing with current cds of powers). reloging can solve this issue
Trapper tree positioned as control hr tree, but all control is totally broken, please fix it!
As a result, I have 3 legendary items (belt and two artifacts) and was working my way towards getting my third artifact and main hand to Legendary as well.
Wit this change that is no longer feasible. I have no reason to spend money on the game any more, and very little motivation to play it any more.
Then no one will complain about drops being BtA and bots will be useless since you will be able to upgrade on your own.
Your solution will kill most of the playerbase...
It is not fair... All the classes have different DMG output... >>> CW's DMG vs. DC's DMG - not comparable
Haha that is how "legendary" those equipment pieces are - you almost got 4 of them in like what? 2 month? redicolous
This guy is definitely on the right track. If every patch was more along these lines as far as being in the right direction, we would have a pretty sick game right now. However, every patch seems to take 2 steps forward for one class, and 5 steps backward for the other classes. The next patch then removes those 2 steps forward and gives the 5 steps back a step forward but in only one feat tree.
- The problem with BIG changes is you set the new bar at which a player rates the class. GF's rate the class now based off a broken item, rather than their class. Instead of fixing the glyph (removing it) - the entire class was nerfed considerably.
- DC's will now base their idea of what a DC should be off the PTR mod 5 DC who can literally 1v1 any class, and yes, even HR's can't kill some of the best DC's while the DC can kill 90% of everyone it faces. Did anyone ever play DND? Sure a multi-class DC could be viable for combat, but unless spec'd with bard/red dragon desciple, or monk/rogue they weren't THAT tanky (ignoring sanctuary), and their DPS wasn't that great either, however their buffs were like... BEAST MODE.
- GWF's base it off mod 2 (god mode) or mod 3 (demi-god 3 hit mode). However, ignoring their 40-50k AOE builds of late, they seem to be more balanced now than ever.
- CW's have always been viable. Sure, mod 3 it took some skill, before shard was nerfed it was VERY based on skill in deciding if he would win or not, mod 4 has made it much more of an easy mode class
- HR's were admitted as the favorite dev class from the start. They have been ages beyond any class in self healing, unmitigatable damage, and their ability to wreck an enemy node or home node for the entire game unless mobbbbbed to death.
- I think your changes to the classes are fine. You made CW's able to not be timed anymore, now we have to anticipate and hope to get their rotations down, or we die. But CW's in older DND could NUKE people so I'm fine with that, however with certain things being server side, and others client based (I know you have your reasons because of people using macros), it makes the fight a very very skewed rock paper scissors.
- My suggestion. Take the HR. The fan boy favorite, who the players love to play, and the Dev's love to see win and hate to nerf. (We get it, you dont heal as much yet still can be nearly full hp from soulforge in one rotation now... so you're still fine). And base all the other classes off of that. Make them the standard, and base what YOU (we play your game), see fit for each classes role (again, you decide this) vs an HR. If DC's should be healers, they should heal more than HR. If TR's should be the highest single target DPS, make them that way vs HR single target, If GF's are tanks, scale their tanking ability to surpass that of an HR (it's not even close right now). I think then you would fine more balance, rather than this uproar of CC every patch as one path gets obliterated, and one path becomes the silk road to glory (we all QQ and spend 75k ad to respec). I think you would find if you forced us to spend AD/zen LESS, and let us enjoy the game, we would actually end up spending more on your game rather than other games.
I'm not sure how this exactly pertains to this patch, and if this is considered slander. But it is more just a really really big fan of DND and especially Neverwinter Nights (the first one of course), and lastly someone who wants to see the latest game with Neverwinter on the title be as good as it can be.
This guy knows his stuff!
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
Quoting this one more, because this guy gets it.
Sorry PW, but you will NOT fight off bots by making everything harder for the player.
Perhaps you try to hoard more money from zen store refining items, but players will simply resist that on a large scale. I could have a CAR for the price of upgrading artifact weapon to legendary. I'm not saying it should be easy, but it shouldn't take months of daily grind or half of your salary to get to it.
HI panderus i have a few question .
If i buy now few stack of RP now from AH they will be bound to my account after this patch note go to live?
Yes ? or Not?
And if i use now hoard or any affected enchant and i got some rp points in enchant from will be bound after patch or they will be normal as y say "its retroactive".
So if i understand it rigth before patch they are not bound and after patch any enchant i got after update from hoard will be bound.
Is this rigth?
Another question what if i use the bound enchants (i got from hoard or fey) to refine some lets say Radiant enchant from 4-to-5 they will be bound after i used bound rp on it?
If i want to upgrade some bound radiant 4-to-5 they will be bound after i upgraded it ?
Feedback : Any way i 100% support this change time to deal with those bots .
PS:To all how are aganst this change farming RP with those enchants you can still upgrade your artifacts this change only effect bots and not active players. I think this is a good move and protect us real players.
.....
Weird.... You mean... Like we would actually get things for running dungeons?!
Im just going to Highlight the underlying themes here. If you guys want a list, HERE IS THIS GUYS LIST THAT WE ALL SUPPORT!!!!
HERE IS A LIST OF THE ABOVE POST FOR EASE OF ADDRESSING!!!!
1) increasingly difficult for newer players to catch up to BiS level with each module
2) Rewards for Actually Playing the Game
3) many measures instituted to harm botting also harms legitimate play on several different levels
4) Players should receive some BoE refining stones for each epic dungeon or periodic dungeon
5) completing the daily Foundry quest should also give some refining stones or marks
6) the reward chests in foundries should be augmented with at least a peridot
7) The contents of Coffers of Wondrous Augmentation should be boosted a bit to give players access to better refining consolation prices
8) Epic items should reward far more RP than they currently do when fed to artifact equipment. (My Own insert here because Ive done a thread here before. A t2.5+ Epic should literally give in the range of 50k RP base. With 100k being doubled with "like items". This means you can feasibly farm for T2.5+ Items to gain RP from)
9) Another way to hit bots (and predatory AH speculators) is to make green and blue refining marks (union, power, stability) available at the Wondrous Bazaar at a slightly lower cost than Marks of Potency of the same rank
10)changing the reward structure for PvP to discourage botting it would also be nice, as long as it also benefits legitimate players.
11) increasing player access to one of the main limiting factors: Wards
MORE daily quests for actual game play rather than "showing up" type things. For instance:
Current PVP quest is DO 4 games or WIN 2. This SHOULD be split into a few different rotating daily pvp quests. You can easily come up with a large list of 30+ quests (an easy idea is to copy the pvp campaign quests but on a smaller scale.)
So each day Rhix offers 1 PVP quest for EACH type of PVP:
1) Domination
2) Open World PVP
3) GG
You can copy the boons so things LIKE "Player revives" or "player kills under 50% HP" etc.
Now you would have THREE quests per day, all giving real incentive for actual play (not something a bot can easily do) and then give us REAL rewards for those daily quests.
Id also submit that it would be a great idea to have a system in place where if a person completes all three pvp daily quests, Rhix then automatically resets and provides another 3 quests.
Again, the rewards should be some type of "coffer" or "bag" that has a chance to return several different RP related items (or even AD).
This puts power back in the players hands and gives actual objectives to accomplish in PVP rather than just "show up". Heck you can even KEEP in place the existing daily for AD. Just tack these ontop of them.
How does it protect us? It didn't damage us, yet people will now be damaged by the wide gap that will exist if they go through with it and leave it as it is.
Any one can have Dragon hoard its easy to obtain and any one can farm bound RP to use it on her self but bots cannot sell it (cuz they will farm bound rp ) and will not mess up the AH .
There was a time when 1 rank 4 was 4k ad in AH.
Again, how does that protect us? It just makes it less available to us? We don't get enough rp to realistically farm an artifact piece to legendary. What we can do currently is save our AD and buy it. Being bound, no-one can realistically afford them while currently you can if you've been playing (or paying) a lot or for a long time. If we wanted AD, we can no longer sell our drops too.
the change done on dragon enchant and the two others kinds of dropping enchant are bad new for player for many reasons.
1- both drop enchant from thoses one will take now twice amount of inventory since now you will have two sort for each of any type. Just for this part having none or all of them attach to account would be better (not only those that drop with enchant but also those from chest). there is too much of different kind of enchant to actually to play with both attach to account and not attach. it will require just for this change 2 more bag just to carry it
2 - as i can read this change is mainly to prevent bot. how ever it will be practicaly no use against bot since bot mainly do not fight and just open chest. in reality it will only affect active farmer that use this system to sell item and with the price of 10k for 99 peridot, unless you can use bot, using those enchant is far less interresting than many other way.
3 legendary actual RP lvl needed is too high to be reasonnably achieved without using money, HV or a cheat way like bot or other. based on my estimate time by just farming for enchant you will need around 400 - 600 hour (with enchant already up) of intense farming to up 1 item to legendary (with 4 slot of enchant lvl 9-10). Since we now speak of 7 artefact,. by playing let say 3 h per days, it 2-3 years of farming.
So to resume as your change is now it will mainly not solve your problem of bot or gold farmer but it will mainly affect your real player.
Here suggests if you want to diminuish bot
- 1 put all of them what ever source is attach to account.
- 2 put a system that also allow you to up artefact with XP (2 way, a part of XP won goes on artefact, or i think is better, each time you get 250 k xp you can up 1 artefact for 1 lvl )
- 3 for the dragon enchant and the two other, make the quality of the drop depend of the quality of the mob killed ( the drop from a epic dongeon boss should be better than the drop from a 1 bar life mob. (ex: if the dragon enchant activate on a epic dongeon boss kill, you should get an opal or lvl just bellow, if it activate on an epic big life mob you should get a blue drop, on a 5 bar dongeon mob or solo boss, last green or blue one, on normal (5 or more barr life) mob a green drop and on one or 3 normal bar mob a grey drop). the loot rate should be adjusted also in dongeon so the loot should compensate a little the fact that only the finishing blow give a chance to get loot (only in epic dongeon)
People who say this have no clue. Absolutely no clue. Go to Rothe Valley, just at the camp by the entrance. Hang around for a bit and inspect some of the endless clone army parade of GWFs. Then tell me that practically nobody is botting with Dragon Hoards.
I'm not saying I like the change, and I've written thoughts on it elsewhere.
But the reality is that they're proposing this change in reaction to a situation that is very much happening and people who think otherwise are not fully informed.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Well, again, the major issue is that at the current drop rates/prices/requirements of legendary gear, bots are, to be frank, a necessary evil.
Now if they actualyl give IN GAME methods of getting significant RP for PLAYING the game. I 10000% agree. however with this continuing the trend of MASSIVE price sinks of each module that comes out. Only a select few who are AD giants will continue to keep up with BIS gear. Furthering the divide between new and old players.
The EASIEST fix to all of this would be to provide massive RP for REAL GEAR giving player who PLAY the game a real chance of farming real gear to use for RP. This would, however hurt their sales because people would play rather than pay ( go figure huh).
There is alot they can do to combat bots. This has been posted ad-nausium however and they continue to ignore it.
Why is an ancient sword received from a CN run worth so FEW RP? I mean that should be a rewarding item to put into an artifact no?
Or a person who farms for T2.5 PVP gear. That requires QUITE a bit of farming. Shouldnt that be worth 100k RP?! I think so...
Or even the lowbie T1 items... thats several hours of PVP play. Shouldnt that be worth something good like 10k RP?
I mean they are FORCING people to rely on bots with these INSANE RP requirements for gear.
i never says it's impossible but it way way much harder to make an efficient bot for fight and get drop from dragon enchant than making endless turn of chest in some session in sharandar. And that simply because when you are not on a solo map it harder to make a program since there is also players that can make move. how ever, that also becasue i know there is still some way to make bot against low mob lvl that i suggest to adjust the reward of those enchant with the quality of the mob killed (and maybe also depend of your lvl so let says a lvl 60 player that kill a lvl 59 or less mob will always drop the lowest kind of drop while shotting an epic boss should give the highest). like that you will have to count not on quantity but on quality to get higher RP.
"Not retroactive" means there is no intention of making existing items bound, only items that are created after the patch.
Indeed, there is no way for the game to distinguish right now which peridots came from any individual source of peridots (for example), except for the wondrous coffer ones which are flagged to be BoA when they are spawned. But peridots from arcane coffers, skill nodes, store purchases, dragon hoards, lockboxes, SCA refining bags, refiner's caches, Tymora bags... none of these has distinct coding right now and they all stack together. It is multiple instances of the same item, with the same code.
What they'd be doing with the change is replacing the unbound drops you can get from enchants now with BoA versions of the same items. So the game will know to give you a BoA item at the time of the drop, but there is no way to implement it retroactively unless they completely screwed up and bound everything. The game can't sort through your stack of 88 peridots and determine that 40 of them came from dragon hoards and 48 came from other sources, and make only the 40 bound. Computers aren't that smart.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia