That's not even a discussion. In all the MMOs, a frost mage wins hands down vs a melee fighter. On WoW it's easy to find a level 30 Vurtne (quite a skilled guy admittedly) in green gear routinely fighting 1v3 lvl 60 Melees wearing purple. Nothing shocking here. I know another MMO where a mage could kill a Melee twice his gs, but in a way the said game was still balanced because levelling up was twice as hard for a mage.
There is no reason why NWO should be different here, and I have no problem with getting torn to shreds by a CW who has 10k gs less. I'd just like to have my class fundamentals: when in pve, some ability to take damage, some ability to deliver damage, and some kind of a "berserk" mode that triggers once in a while.
"nd I have no problem with getting torn to shreds by a CW who has 10k gs less" ?????????????????
^^^
trololol.
In simple english: "men i am a CW.I know i play an OP class as shiit but please don't nerf me.it is normal for a 10k gs to kill a 20k gs,or it should be, cause we the CWs are the lords of the lands.Stop complaining we own pve now we will completely own PVP"
The wording in the last changes for the CWs are a bit unclear. Before you called it casting times. Is that what you actually talking about now? Or what does "This power now activates 40% faster." mean?
For me a power activating faster has nothing to do with the casting time, its more about response time for it to start the casting? Before in older patchnotes it says something like "Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second" or "Chill Strike: and now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second)" but now you use % in the patchnotes.
Storm Fury? Broken? Or did you mean Eye of the storm?
Because Storm Fury is the real definition of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
In the past it was absolute <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but the buffed one hits as hard as Storm Spell. And of course many people choose EotS over SF. Anyway, the point is that a class feature shouldn't provide such insane damage boost.
Well yesterday I tried to kill a DC standing in AS and that was impossible. So the defense for all players is going up as well, not just the damage. And the DC could stun me more than I could stun her. How can a DC have more control than a CW?
And most classes are frozen for like 0.5 sec so that 72% wont be that noticeable in PvP and most classes can just avoid our chill stacks like TR/GF can and GWF can just sprint to lose them?
Gotta agree that AS and the spammable stun are broken. But you know people can kill us in 1 or 2 rotations if we don't have the buffed shield.
In the past it was absolute <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but the buffed one hits as hard as Storm Spell. And of course many people choose EotS over SF. Anyway, the point is that a class feature shouldn't provide such insane damage boost.
Well I do agree that the damage should be in the renegade/thaum feats and not the class features, but I'm happy that we have it at all at this point because we DO need it. I think the game will be more balanced in Mod5 than Mod4.
Damage in passives makes the CW class easy to play, to easy.. The feats should boost damage or the control in encounters instead of having it as passives. But like I said, I'm happy that we have it at all.
Gotta agree that AS and the spammable stun are broken. But you know people can kill us in 1 or 2 rotations if we don't have the buffed shield.
Well people can kill me in 2 sec if I don't slot my shield on TABB too.. My whole TABB feature is wasted just because the CW dies to fast against anything.
In the past it was absolute <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but the buffed one hits as hard as Storm Spell.
It hits for 900-1800 on most classes. It activates only when the CW is below 1/2 HP. It never-ever crits, but it procs more consistently than SS. VS a DC and in general gameplay would be a very bad choice, and in a premade unless you sit all the time on homecap trying to clear a TR, you need Orb of Imposition instead. It's kinda OP vs TRs, but kinda bad vs everything else IMO, so it's really situational.
Overall I wouldn't say it provides any kind of insane damage boost.
That's not even a discussion. In all the MMOs, a frost mage wins hands down vs a melee fighter. On WoW it's easy to find a level 30 Vurtne (quite a skilled guy admittedly) in green gear routinely fighting 1v3 lvl 60 Melees wearing purple. Nothing shocking here. I know another MMO where a mage could kill a Melee twice his gs, but in a way the said game was still balanced because levelling up was twice as hard for a mage.
There is no reason why NWO should be different here, and I have no problem with getting torn to shreds by a CW who has 10k gs less. I'd just like to have my class fundamentals: when in pve, some ability to take damage, some ability to deliver damage, and some kind of a "berserk" mode that triggers once in a while.
you clearly dont have a clue how class mechanics interact
how many of those games had unstoppable an sprint ?
gwf in this game is the anti-kiting class, none of mages of those games could win vs gwf GWF(before it was totally fkd up and made a joke) in 1v1 based on class mechanics
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The wording in the last changes for the CWs are a bit unclear. Before you called it casting times. Is that what you actually talking about now? Or what does "This power now activates 40% faster." mean?
Well people can kill me in 2 sec if I don't slot my shield on TABB too.. My whole TABB feature is wasted just because the CW dies to fast against anything.
The difference is that you can kill people in a few seconds, we can't (except for DPS spec'd ones).
The major problem of DC now is those DPS spec'd DCs who could do insane amount of damage while being damage immune with AS. That needs to go away.
It hits for 900-1800 on most classes. It activates only when the CW is below 1/2 HP. It never-ever crits, but it procs more consistently than SS. VS a DC and in general gameplay would be a very bad choice, and in a premade unless you sit all the time on homecap trying to clear a TR, you need Orb of Imposition instead. It's kinda OP vs TRs, but kinda bad vs everything else IMO, so it's really situational.
Overall I wouldn't say it provides any kind of insane damage boost.
I saw some big numbers (5k+) when I was playing my HR (squishy) against some BiS CW so number could be subjective.
The difference is that you can kill people in a few seconds, we can't (except for DPS spec'd ones).
The major problem of DC now is those DPS spec'd DCs who could do insane amount of damage while being damage immune with AS. That needs to go away.
For me a DC should not be a killer. A DC is there to do great healing OR do "some" damage and "some" healing.
Its the same with CWs, we should do great control or "some" control and "some" damage". The downside with control is that the game becomes boring because without the damage our control needs to be really good and perma controlled is boring as hell for all players.
A DC killed me in like a few seconds a few weeks ago. Dont know if that is fixed, but that was messed up! :P
i'll qoute you what you said about me fightin a HR , "l2p gwf rather then whine on forum about how the CW is OP "
So instead of fixing CWs? Making IR dodgeable ?
or making CW not OP - see http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9369421#post9369421 as proof
You try to approve current CW changes?
I don't know how you play.
But good CW I talked in game were stating that DPS was the same before new changes and CW did not need to be OP again. Both pvp or pve wise especially.
You had plenty idea how to fix GWF. Sure some of them may be acually good. macjae had ideas how to increase CW survivabilty. I even sad that some of them are really good if you forgot.
But now we have 70 or so CW in 50 pages of leaderboard. They learned how to play. Same as top HR. or Top GWF and GF. Learn to play is basic advice to all who whats to excel in his class.
Yet right now we have cheesy changed to intimidation as you sad on your own.
And with new changes CWs have faster time of cast, broken Storm Spell, Feet based passive damage that does not need any skill to place, ability to apply IR in movement while Crush himself sad that it is practically impossible to dodge already, Immunity frame on long dodge that works after dodge itself and all other stuff.
So now you have once again CW as top DPS and top Control. Not good in any way. I don't care how they will fix it. It complete unbalance plus having known bugs with undodgable CC that are "won't fix". This makes CW OP by using broken mechanics. Not thing I what to be.
All you idea of nerf HR and OP GWF and CW are no good. You could see that even good CWs say in this thread that This is too much. Same as preMod 4. Only OP players are happy about it.
Just a reminder that Storm Spell is currently bugged. If fixed, its damage output will roughly be halved.
It's still a lot in my eyes from one class feature, but it's not as gigantic any longer
Im just using data that you posted. If it is bugged I do hope they will fix it. Cause in preMod 4 it was bugged too with same result. Kinda funny how it repeats every module. Nerf CW as preview. Cry CW. Buff CWs to kill all with no skill.
It does makes me think that only CWs play this game now - like 95% of player base and they all invest constantly in game. This only one reason what I can see why devs do same freaking thing all the time. OR that "one guy that does balancing as his job" (quote from reddit) cares about CWs only.
I saw some big numbers (5k+) when I was playing my HR (squishy) against some BiS CW so number could be subjective.
You must have been debuffed. On my CW when I wear Shield on Tab SF from BiS CWs hits for 900-1K (everyone fully potted). I 1vs1ed a BiS GWF yesterday and SF hit on him for about 1700 (we had no pots). My CW has BiS gear minus a few R10s and about 6200 Power unbuffed in Domination as a reference.
Even the full squish/DPS type of CW (human+Int belt/lower Con) did about 3K maximum to a BiS TR, although most hits are 700-ish as they are Deflected.
You must have been debuffed. On my CW when I wear Shield on Tab SF from BiS CWs hits for 900-1K (everyone fully potted). I 1vs1ed a BiS GWF yesterday and SF hit on him for about 1700 (we had no pots). My CW has BiS gear minus a few R10s and about 6200 Power unbuffed in Domination as a reference.
Even the full squish/DPS type of CW (human+Int belt/lower Con) did about 3K maximum to a BiS TR, although most hits are 700-ish as they are Deflected.
Watch around 3:30+ mins mark, the hits are a bit hard to tell, but it's possible
It sucks against trs. Storm Fury is good against HR, GWFS and CWs that use GPF or Perfect flaming. Basically because of ticks and storm fury can procc on all weapon enchant ticks. Aka, it can do arround 12k damage in one hit on an HR because of 4-5 hits in a row. It usually hits for arround 3k, buf as i said if someone is using gpf or flaming it can easily add up to 12-15k because of the proccs on ticks.
It sucks against trs. Storm Fury is good against HR, GWFS and CWs that use GPF or Perfect flaming. Basically because of ticks and storm fury can procc on all weapon enchant ticks. Aka, it can do arround 12k damage in one hit on an HR because of 4-5 hits in a row. It usually hits for arround 3k, buf as i said if someone is using gpf or flaming it can easily add up to 12-15k because of the proccs on ticks.
edit: vorpal is a great counter to storm fury
Interesting, I never saw it proc many times in a row while having all the DoTs in the CW arsenal on me and GPF or Bile. I like it vs TRs because there's nothing else and if the TR is good, you will get below 50% HP. I suppose I'll try some further testing with DoTs on me and see how it goes.
Bug: Storm Spell
Storm Spell is bugged again and procing way too much.
*snip*
Storm Spell is supposed to activate at 30% on Crits, but as the parse shows it's actually 1002/1727 (3455 normal hits at approx 50% crit). Also if it would only activate on crits, it should have a 100% critrate, but there are some non-crit procs as well.
I don't think there is a bug here. I believe this is working as intended. That's not to say the it is not overpowered, I agree it is in this case, but there are reasons for it. It's not a glitch or a bug or an error on their part. It's just the consequences of some things they didn't consider:
1) You are running a Renegade build which is granting you extremely high critical chance. Eye of the Storm already gives a Spellstorm CW high crit. The new Renegade capstone can also add 30% critical chance for those times when Eye of the Storm isn't in effect. As a result your Encounter powers (Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain) had 54%, 64%, 61%, and 50% crits which is pretty high. That's a bump in crit chance over what you will have on live. This means the loss of procs on non-critical hits is less of a loss and the proc rate gain is more of a gain than the developers probably thought it would be.
2) Every cast of Steal Time applies three "slow" effects before the damage hits. Each "slow" tick has a chance to proc Storm Spell. That's the main reason why the proc chance seems too high. It's because ACT will log Steal time as damaging the target once, while the game counts it as four chances to proc Storm Spell. This also happens with other spells. It's not a bug so much as that's how the game is programmed. This is how it has always been. Steal Time is great for procing random effects like Nightmare Wizardry, Wild Hunt Rider and Storm Spell because of this.
3) By increasing the proc rate of Storm Spell from 20% to 30% they have increased the number of Storm Spell strikes that will occur while Eye of the Storm is active. That means that not only has the Storm Spell strikes rate gone up, but those additional strikes will mostly be critical hits because of Eye of the Storm. You can see that you got 81% critical hits from Storm Spell because of that (It is not because that if a spell crits then the Storm Spell procs should also be crits--that's not how it works). If a Perfect Vorpal is equipped, then that gain in damage from more guaranteed Storm Spell critical hits offsets the loss of now getting 0% Storm Spell proc rate on non-critical hits.
It's for reasons like this that Developers should be more careful in changing how spells work. If they decided that Storm Spell was doing too much damage then an easy way to reduce its damage is to reduce the proc rate from 20% to 15%. That's an easy, no complications way to reduce its damage by 25%. All of this shifting the game mechanics so the spell functions completely differently and hoping that things come out the way they want just opens them up to get blindsided by unintended consequences like these.
I don't think there is a bug here. I believe this is working as intended. That's not to say the it is not overpowered, I agree it is in this case, but there are reasons for it. It's not a glitch or a bug or an error on their part. It's just the consequences of some things they didn't consider:
1) You are running a Renegade build which is granting you extremely high critical chance. Eye of the Storm already gives a Spellstorm CW high crit. The new Renegade capstone can also add 30% critical chance for those times when Eye of the Storm isn't in effect. As a result your Encounter powers (Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain) had 54%, 64%, 61%, and 50% crits which is pretty high. That's a bump in crit chance over what you will have on live. This means the loss of procs on non-critical hits is less of a loss and the proc rate gain is more of a gain than the developers probably thought it would be.
neverwind. should have read full post first. But even thought I do see how 81% appeared with crit of base power It does makes it huge 81% of crit hits. Too much imho
I don't think there is a bug here. I believe this is working as intended. That's not to say the it is not overpowered, I agree it is in this case, but there are reasons for it. It's not a glitch or a bug or an error on their part. It's just the consequences of some things they didn't consider:
1) You are running a Renegade build which is granting you extremely high critical chance. Eye of the Storm already gives a Spellstorm CW high crit. The new Renegade capstone can also add 30% critical chance for those times when Eye of the Storm isn't in effect. As a result your Encounter powers (Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain) had 54%, 64%, 61%, and 50% crits which is pretty high. That's a bump in crit chance over what you will have on live. This means the loss of procs on non-critical hits is less of a loss and the proc rate gain is more of a gain than the developers probably thought it would be.
2) Every cast of Steal Time applies three "slow" effects before the damage hits. Each "slow" tick has a chance to proc Storm Spell. That's the main reason why the proc chance seems too high. It's because ACT will log Steal time as damaging the target once, while the game counts it as four chances to proc Storm Spell. This also happens with other spells. It's not a bug so much as that's how the game is programmed. This is how it has always been. Steal Time is great for procing random effects like Nightmare Wizardry, Wild Hunt Rider and Storm Spell because of this.
3) By increasing the proc rate of Storm Spell from 20% to 30% they have increased the number of Storm Spell strikes that will occur while Eye of the Storm is active. That means that not only has the Storm Spell strikes rate gone up, but those additional strikes will mostly be critical hits because of Eye of the Storm. You can see that you got 81% critical hits from Storm Spell because of that (It is not because that if a spell crits then the Storm Spell procs should also be crits--that's not how it works). If a Perfect Vorpal is equipped, then that gain in damage from more guaranteed Storm Spell critical hits offsets the loss of now getting 0% Storm Spell proc rate on non-critical hits.
It's for reasons like this that Developers should be more careful in changing how spells work. If they decided that Storm Spell was doing too much damage then an easy way to reduce its damage is to reduce the proc rate from 20% to 15%. That's an easy, no complications way to reduce its damage by 25%. All of this shifting the game mechanics so the spell functions completely differently and hoping that things come out the way they want just opens them up to get blindsided by unintended consequences like these.
I was indeed assuming that Storm Spell always crits if it procs off crits, thanks for the clarify.
You would need 3340 critical hits to proc 1002 Storm Spells (30%). In the parse there are 3455 overall hits, nearly the same amount of criticals you would need to proc 1002 Storm Spells. Even if you quadruple the Steal Time hits you're not getting close.
Just a gut feeling, but the parses I'm getting look a lot like the bugged "procs from Chill stacks"-version of Mod4.
I was indeed assuming that Storm Spell always crits if it procs off crits, thanks for the clarify.
You would need 3340 critical hits to proc 1002 Storm Spells (30%). In the parse there are 3455 overall hits, nearly the same amount of criticals you would need to proc 1002 Storm Spells. Even if you quadruple the Steal Time hits you're not getting close.
Just a gut feeling, but the parses I'm getting look a lot like the bugged "procs from Chill stacks"-version of Mod4.
It is indeed. I at first thought that you accually copied it from old thread. Had to look close. Yet still i wish we could compare old CW with new CW both pve and pvp. Cause my gutt feeling is that CW will be crazy at start of mod as it was in mod 4 start.
We are making some fairly large changes to Control Wizard single target powers to improve their PVP presence and improving both of their Presence class features to make them more competitive choices with the Paragon features.
Arcane Presence: Now also passively increases your recharge speed by 5/10/15%.
Chilling Presence: Damage bonus increased to 2% per stack (per rank) and is doubled on Frozen targets.
Chill Strike: This power now activates 40% faster.
Entangling Force: This power now activates 40% faster.
Repel: This power now activates 40% faster.
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now activates 40% faster.
Icy Rays: Targets can now be marked while moving.
Icy Rays: The follow up portion of this power now activates 40% faster.
Sudden Storm: This power now activates 40% faster.
Fanning the Flames: This power now activates 40% faster.
This should reduce how easily most powers are dodged against a Wizard, making them a dangerous ranged threat with more power options to control or damage foes.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks for those change gentleman
arcane presence is a good change since thise passive was completly useless. now you can think of it
chilling presence: thanks to this one (maybe it was my return let hope) and this can finally give this feat a chance to be usefull and making it around same lvl as other good passive boost. just need to be tested to confirm the exact lvl gain. since it a *4 boost and since previous was barelly giving 4-5% damage it should be between 15-20% boost (most people here forget the 3 second where you can't stack ice on target)
the speed change on single target spell was needed for pvp part but also for the fluidity of the CW since lot of time people have time to dodge or interrupt but also there was many problem due to the fact that when CW was casting spell and press a second cast it was interrupt the first one
Maybe i will return trying some pvp. and not always asking myself will it launch, will i be interrupt again or will the lag make my second spell cut the first one
You may want to be careful, here. I know you're trying to adjust things to make CW's a bit more capable in PvP and are trying to give CW's better options for passives (which is good), but this change will have some severe unintended consequences. Three ranks of Chilling Presence would mean 6% more damage per stack of chill. At 6 stacks that's a 36% damage boost. That's enormous. Then it would be 72% increase in damage for frozen targets. PvE CW's can already mow through dungeons pretty quickly. You don't want to see how quickly I'd be able to destroy everything in a room by throwing out Steal Time (for High Vizier stacks), Conduit of Ice (tabbed so it applies chill), Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm (with 5 stacks of chill feat) then, with everything in the room frozen and taking 72% more damage (102% with High Vizier stacks) throwing out Oppressive Force. A good CW will be able to clear any room in seconds. Also a pack of CW's would be able cut down bosses in no time. Bosses would have permanent 6 stacks of chill which would give a permanent 36% damage boost to every CW who has Chilling Presence slotted. This would undo any progress made in Mod 4 in attempting to tone down CW PvE dominance.
abaddon you miss the point that one month ago they put a timer after target freeze where you can't stack any chill lvl for 3 second. with good control and based on test i made 3 weeks ago it practicaly 50 % of time depending of situation where target have no stack of ice on them. mean if you want to estimate real bonus you have to cut all your number by half + (high vezir sorry but i do not see the point since you will get the power what ever passive you take) + i don,t think this bonus apply to other but only you also on hgh vezir you can't no more have 3 lvl of debuf on mob sicne begin of v4 by what i saw) + also remember you can only put 2 passiv so of course you have to put out or storm spell or eye of the storm out. do you still think it will be a high buff ?. personnaly it will be only taken by renegade with the passiv that increase critic. finaly making the t4 feat of renegade a good choice to take
Bug: Storm Spell
Storm Spell is bugged again and procing way too much.
Storm Spell is supposed to activate at 30% on Crits, but as the parse shows it's actually 1002/1727 (3455 normal hits at approx 50% crit). Also if it would only activate on crits, it should have a 100% critrate, but there are some non-crit procs as well.
nice report how ever still wondering something: how did you get it. i mean: you repport have creaping frost and warped magic a t4 power you get on thauma path. but on other hand i do not see : assaillant
also you post only show one real thing it's not that storm spell is over powered. it,s encounter power that are way too weak. in my case ice conduct is 550 damage * 6. icy terrain 550 * 10 (over time spell)
the first one is way under any at will feat of any other class in the game at same lvl. the only interrest to use them is : to proc storm spell. reduce storm spell let say to half and you stop play with icy terrain and ice conduct . then also stop storm spell. you re taking the case where storm spell is proc as often as possible with all passive and power that up it. if you want to make compare. do the same by for example using power that are not dedicate to proc strom spell (just need to put out ice conduct and icy terrain) and show how much storm spell really do damage with any other combo that do not involve over time spell (exemple with single target spell) you will discover that storm spell become ridiculous since you are passing from around 20-25 chance of crit per spell rotation to 6-8. so torm spell proc 3 time less but also your power will represent a much higher damage since those two are without storm spell practicaly non damage spell
nice report how ever still wondering something: how did you get it. i mean: you repport have creaping frost and warped magic a t4 power you get on thauma path. but on other hand i do not see : assaillant
That test was made with a Thauma/Renegade hybrid build.
Btw.: Earlier tests (NW.35.20141015a.2) I ran with the new Storm Spell list a 100% crit rate for the class feature. So contrary to what abaddon523 suggested, Storm Spell used to crit only in earlier releases.
Comments
"nd I have no problem with getting torn to shreds by a CW who has 10k gs less" ?????????????????
^^^
trololol.
In simple english: "men i am a CW.I know i play an OP class as shiit but please don't nerf me.it is normal for a 10k gs to kill a 20k gs,or it should be, cause we the CWs are the lords of the lands.Stop complaining we own pve now we will completely own PVP"
Typical CW.....
The wording in the last changes for the CWs are a bit unclear. Before you called it casting times. Is that what you actually talking about now? Or what does "This power now activates 40% faster." mean?
For me a power activating faster has nothing to do with the casting time, its more about response time for it to start the casting? Before in older patchnotes it says something like "Chill Strike: Casting time reduced to 1 second" or "Chill Strike: and now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second)" but now you use % in the patchnotes.
So is it 40% of 1.2 sec?
In the past it was absolute <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but the buffed one hits as hard as Storm Spell. And of course many people choose EotS over SF. Anyway, the point is that a class feature shouldn't provide such insane damage boost.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
Well I do agree that the damage should be in the renegade/thaum feats and not the class features, but I'm happy that we have it at all at this point because we DO need it. I think the game will be more balanced in Mod5 than Mod4.
Damage in passives makes the CW class easy to play, to easy.. The feats should boost damage or the control in encounters instead of having it as passives. But like I said, I'm happy that we have it at all.
Well people can kill me in 2 sec if I don't slot my shield on TABB too.. My whole TABB feature is wasted just because the CW dies to fast against anything.
It hits for 900-1800 on most classes. It activates only when the CW is below 1/2 HP. It never-ever crits, but it procs more consistently than SS. VS a DC and in general gameplay would be a very bad choice, and in a premade unless you sit all the time on homecap trying to clear a TR, you need Orb of Imposition instead. It's kinda OP vs TRs, but kinda bad vs everything else IMO, so it's really situational.
Overall I wouldn't say it provides any kind of insane damage boost.
you clearly dont have a clue how class mechanics interact
how many of those games had unstoppable an sprint ?
gwf in this game is the anti-kiting class, none of mages of those games could win vs gwf GWF(before it was totally fkd up and made a joke) in 1v1 based on class mechanics
Activate means cast time.
The difference is that you can kill people in a few seconds, we can't (except for DPS spec'd ones).
The major problem of DC now is those DPS spec'd DCs who could do insane amount of damage while being damage immune with AS. That needs to go away.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
I saw some big numbers (5k+) when I was playing my HR (squishy) against some BiS CW so number could be subjective.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
For me a DC should not be a killer. A DC is there to do great healing OR do "some" damage and "some" healing.
Its the same with CWs, we should do great control or "some" control and "some" damage". The downside with control is that the game becomes boring because without the damage our control needs to be really good and perma controlled is boring as hell for all players.
A DC killed me in like a few seconds a few weeks ago. Dont know if that is fixed, but that was messed up! :P
So instead of fixing CWs? Making IR dodgeable ?
or making CW not OP - see http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9369421#post9369421 as proof
You try to approve current CW changes?
I don't know how you play.
But good CW I talked in game were stating that DPS was the same before new changes and CW did not need to be OP again. Both pvp or pve wise especially.
You had plenty idea how to fix GWF. Sure some of them may be acually good. macjae had ideas how to increase CW survivabilty. I even sad that some of them are really good if you forgot.
But now we have 70 or so CW in 50 pages of leaderboard. They learned how to play. Same as top HR. or Top GWF and GF. Learn to play is basic advice to all who whats to excel in his class.
Yet right now we have cheesy changed to intimidation as you sad on your own.
And with new changes CWs have faster time of cast, broken Storm Spell, Feet based passive damage that does not need any skill to place, ability to apply IR in movement while Crush himself sad that it is practically impossible to dodge already, Immunity frame on long dodge that works after dodge itself and all other stuff.
So now you have once again CW as top DPS and top Control. Not good in any way. I don't care how they will fix it. It complete unbalance plus having known bugs with undodgable CC that are "won't fix". This makes CW OP by using broken mechanics. Not thing I what to be.
All you idea of nerf HR and OP GWF and CW are no good. You could see that even good CWs say in this thread that This is too much. Same as preMod 4. Only OP players are happy about it.
Just a reminder that Storm Spell is currently bugged. If fixed, its damage output will roughly be halved.
It's still a lot in my eyes from one class feature, but it's not as gigantic any longer
Im just using data that you posted. If it is bugged I do hope they will fix it. Cause in preMod 4 it was bugged too with same result. Kinda funny how it repeats every module. Nerf CW as preview. Cry CW. Buff CWs to kill all with no skill.
It does makes me think that only CWs play this game now - like 95% of player base and they all invest constantly in game. This only one reason what I can see why devs do same freaking thing all the time. OR that "one guy that does balancing as his job" (quote from reddit) cares about CWs only.
Even the full squish/DPS type of CW (human+Int belt/lower Con) did about 3K maximum to a BiS TR, although most hits are 700-ish as they are Deflected.
See here: http://www.twitch.tv/dersidius/c/5324282
Watch around 3:30+ mins mark, the hits are a bit hard to tell, but it's possible
It sucks against trs. Storm Fury is good against HR, GWFS and CWs that use GPF or Perfect flaming. Basically because of ticks and storm fury can procc on all weapon enchant ticks. Aka, it can do arround 12k damage in one hit on an HR because of 4-5 hits in a row. It usually hits for arround 3k, buf as i said if someone is using gpf or flaming it can easily add up to 12-15k because of the proccs on ticks.
edit: vorpal is a great counter to storm fury
Interesting, I never saw it proc many times in a row while having all the DoTs in the CW arsenal on me and GPF or Bile. I like it vs TRs because there's nothing else and if the TR is good, you will get below 50% HP. I suppose I'll try some further testing with DoTs on me and see how it goes.
I don't think there is a bug here. I believe this is working as intended. That's not to say the it is not overpowered, I agree it is in this case, but there are reasons for it. It's not a glitch or a bug or an error on their part. It's just the consequences of some things they didn't consider:
1) You are running a Renegade build which is granting you extremely high critical chance. Eye of the Storm already gives a Spellstorm CW high crit. The new Renegade capstone can also add 30% critical chance for those times when Eye of the Storm isn't in effect. As a result your Encounter powers (Sudden Storm, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Icy Terrain) had 54%, 64%, 61%, and 50% crits which is pretty high. That's a bump in crit chance over what you will have on live. This means the loss of procs on non-critical hits is less of a loss and the proc rate gain is more of a gain than the developers probably thought it would be.
2) Every cast of Steal Time applies three "slow" effects before the damage hits. Each "slow" tick has a chance to proc Storm Spell. That's the main reason why the proc chance seems too high. It's because ACT will log Steal time as damaging the target once, while the game counts it as four chances to proc Storm Spell. This also happens with other spells. It's not a bug so much as that's how the game is programmed. This is how it has always been. Steal Time is great for procing random effects like Nightmare Wizardry, Wild Hunt Rider and Storm Spell because of this.
3) By increasing the proc rate of Storm Spell from 20% to 30% they have increased the number of Storm Spell strikes that will occur while Eye of the Storm is active. That means that not only has the Storm Spell strikes rate gone up, but those additional strikes will mostly be critical hits because of Eye of the Storm. You can see that you got 81% critical hits from Storm Spell because of that (It is not because that if a spell crits then the Storm Spell procs should also be crits--that's not how it works). If a Perfect Vorpal is equipped, then that gain in damage from more guaranteed Storm Spell critical hits offsets the loss of now getting 0% Storm Spell proc rate on non-critical hits.
It's for reasons like this that Developers should be more careful in changing how spells work. If they decided that Storm Spell was doing too much damage then an easy way to reduce its damage is to reduce the proc rate from 20% to 15%. That's an easy, no complications way to reduce its damage by 25%. All of this shifting the game mechanics so the spell functions completely differently and hoping that things come out the way they want just opens them up to get blindsided by unintended consequences like these.
neverwind. should have read full post first. But even thought I do see how 81% appeared with crit of base power It does makes it huge 81% of crit hits. Too much imho
I was indeed assuming that Storm Spell always crits if it procs off crits, thanks for the clarify.
You would need 3340 critical hits to proc 1002 Storm Spells (30%). In the parse there are 3455 overall hits, nearly the same amount of criticals you would need to proc 1002 Storm Spells. Even if you quadruple the Steal Time hits you're not getting close.
Just a gut feeling, but the parses I'm getting look a lot like the bugged "procs from Chill stacks"-version of Mod4.
It is indeed. I at first thought that you accually copied it from old thread. Had to look close. Yet still i wish we could compare old CW with new CW both pve and pvp. Cause my gutt feeling is that CW will be crazy at start of mod as it was in mod 4 start.
Thanks for those change gentleman
arcane presence is a good change since thise passive was completly useless. now you can think of it
chilling presence: thanks to this one (maybe it was my return let hope) and this can finally give this feat a chance to be usefull and making it around same lvl as other good passive boost. just need to be tested to confirm the exact lvl gain. since it a *4 boost and since previous was barelly giving 4-5% damage it should be between 15-20% boost (most people here forget the 3 second where you can't stack ice on target)
the speed change on single target spell was needed for pvp part but also for the fluidity of the CW since lot of time people have time to dodge or interrupt but also there was many problem due to the fact that when CW was casting spell and press a second cast it was interrupt the first one
Maybe i will return trying some pvp. and not always asking myself will it launch, will i be interrupt again or will the lag make my second spell cut the first one
abaddon you miss the point that one month ago they put a timer after target freeze where you can't stack any chill lvl for 3 second. with good control and based on test i made 3 weeks ago it practicaly 50 % of time depending of situation where target have no stack of ice on them. mean if you want to estimate real bonus you have to cut all your number by half + (high vezir sorry but i do not see the point since you will get the power what ever passive you take) + i don,t think this bonus apply to other but only you also on hgh vezir you can't no more have 3 lvl of debuf on mob sicne begin of v4 by what i saw) + also remember you can only put 2 passiv so of course you have to put out or storm spell or eye of the storm out. do you still think it will be a high buff ?. personnaly it will be only taken by renegade with the passiv that increase critic. finaly making the t4 feat of renegade a good choice to take
nice report how ever still wondering something: how did you get it. i mean: you repport have creaping frost and warped magic a t4 power you get on thauma path. but on other hand i do not see : assaillant
also you post only show one real thing it's not that storm spell is over powered. it,s encounter power that are way too weak. in my case ice conduct is 550 damage * 6. icy terrain 550 * 10 (over time spell)
the first one is way under any at will feat of any other class in the game at same lvl. the only interrest to use them is : to proc storm spell. reduce storm spell let say to half and you stop play with icy terrain and ice conduct . then also stop storm spell. you re taking the case where storm spell is proc as often as possible with all passive and power that up it. if you want to make compare. do the same by for example using power that are not dedicate to proc strom spell (just need to put out ice conduct and icy terrain) and show how much storm spell really do damage with any other combo that do not involve over time spell (exemple with single target spell) you will discover that storm spell become ridiculous since you are passing from around 20-25 chance of crit per spell rotation to 6-8. so torm spell proc 3 time less but also your power will represent a much higher damage since those two are without storm spell practicaly non damage spell
I wonder about that too.
If you get their class features out they're literally naked. It's like... they automatically shapeshift into teleporting dummies.
That test was made with a Thauma/Renegade hybrid build.
Btw.: Earlier tests (NW.35.20141015a.2) I ran with the new Storm Spell list a 100% crit rate for the class feature. So contrary to what abaddon523 suggested, Storm Spell used to crit only in earlier releases.