About the new stealth depletion:
I like it, it means all those little dots don't stack up and absolutely reset our stealth meter in 2-3s. Admittedly, any damage we take in the 15-35% of ourmax health range is going to hurt but I'm ok with this because of the resistance we gained to dots. And if we're hit for more than 40% of our max health we have much bigger worries all of the sudden. Though I'll admit being able to stealth once a hit like that lands would be convenient.
Overall the total changes have actually lowered our dps in PvE. We were already not very desired in PvE dungeon parties because we were redundant and not as effective as many other classes at our main job, single target dps. With these changes it gets that much harder to be good enough to get into a party.
In PvP these changes probably help a lot of balancing issues. Though I'll admit I didn't pvp much to begin with but when I did I either permastealthed and trolled on a point or I went semi and would destroy people with duelist flurry from stealth. Now you can really only pick one of these so it seems an overall good change for PvP.
But for PvE these changes seem, to me, to have crippled us.
Does anyone have even the slightest clue of what the "difference between test conditions and actual combat means"?
Do I really have to explain every bit and detail that when testing out the new changes one would have to test out both short bursts and long ones to accurately compare DPS?
T. E. S. T.
Test.
...*sigh*
that was the biggest waste of my time to test just to find out flurry does almost 3x the dps of cloud of steel in a 3 min time frame. but really, did u really need a graph to compare the at-wills in dps when it's common knowledge that flurry is our strongest at-will.....
annoyed me even more since act kept clearing out all the data after being inactive for a bit so i constantly had to do this over until i got a screenshot in paint quick enough.
but more on topic, cloud of steel has never been a main dps at-will except for permas. it may be unlimited now, but it doesn't mean we should start flinging them like it is unlimited when anything else will hit harder
I tested the At-will updates today for 6 hours in IWD HE and luckily found myself a CW(bless you Mortem) test partner with handsome equips so here are feebacks.
Cloud of Steel: This power no longer has charges and activates slightly slower.
Cloud of Steel: This power now deals 10% more damage.
The beauty of old CoS is its scaling damage with its 8 stacks/charge, now with the updated CoS it gained unlimited charges(gives steady stream of dps) at the cost of burst damage and speed. I must say Im not impressed the clear picture of this in PVP is you will not live to spam that daggers, while in PVE it is nice to be safe from afar but at the cost of damage output so who will want a TR in group? Again you gave one you took away two .
Duelist's Flurry: This power now activates faster.
Duelist's Flurry: The bleed from Duelist's flurry now deals 20% more damage.
The speed boost is awesome and I love it! but the damage increase isnt noticeable it would be nice to have the base damage increase instead of the bleed. Thank you and job well done for this!
Sly Flourish: The damage on this power now better reflects the activate time of each hit. The damage of the second, third, and final hits have all been increased.
Sly Flourish: The final hit of this combo now applies Broken Armor for 6 seconds. Broken Armor causes targets to take 5% more damage from all sources.
The damage increase isnt noticeable and the broken armor is nice but Duelist Flurry still outshine this Atwill offensively. Im sure the best improvement (meaning you dont give one and remove two) is to provide this Atwill with scaling deflect chance and lifesteal.
Gloaming Cut: Base damage of this power has been reduced by roughly 15%.
Ohhhhh so dissapointing! its already slow! *sigh
Dodge: 30% stamina
Goodjob! but I want everyone to know that dodge's main purpose is to avoid damage and reposition/escape, it isnt intended to use so that TR can refill stealth(via the feat Twilight Adept). I would like to push my request in the removal of stealth drain on damage and to let it regenerate naturally when out of stealth I find it just and fair to remove so many disadvantages to this fragile stealth mechanic.
Bug: Vengeance Pursuit and Impact Shot I found this bug while dueling, a CW used Icy Terrain and I got frozen my reaction is to use VP to escape and gap close but the moment I spam the button my TR epileptically did the "throw dagger animation" same happened when I used Impact Shot.
Bug: Disheartening I have this one instance when I was stealthed I used Disheart as opening to a walking dwarf in IWD my TR did the animation but no dagger was released. I also noticed that in some very rare instances the range varies from time to time.
Base on my experience during my duel with a CW awhile ago using WK with all the three paths, Scoundrel did a great job I was able to fight back taking advantage of daze rotation but with shield he was able to endure my onslaught and sadly too much cc, aoe and damage overwhelmed my 14k GS TR I tried to buy time using stealth with shadow strike but countered it again and again with arcane singularity and Icy Terrain. The Saboteur also did a great job but I find Executioner very disappointing I used LB+FS+Dis+DS+SS combo but their shield is so durable and that teleport and cc lock CW have prevented me from inflicting further damage. I used BiS with Advantageous Position but CW still hits like a truck and I cant re enter stealth nor dodge away while frozen.
So we are still the numero uno underdog contender due to fragile stealth mechanic, useless feats out of stealth, unreasonable STAT design and most of all minute tools to survive. I see little improvement because some updates are coupled by nerf 1+1-2 is always zero no gain at all
Stealth isnt OP any class can counter this mechanic by simply running towards the TR and use AOE/cc then that TR is yours for the taking. This would probably my last post Im the major problems that we keep on mentioning wasnt addressed properly and im sick and tired of seeing "buff but nerf nerf scenario in this thread". To all TR goodluck and hope you enjoy.
that was the biggest waste of my time to test just to find out flurry does almost 3x the dps of cloud of steel in a 3 min time frame. but really, did u really need a graph to compare the at-wills in dps when it's common knowledge that flurry is our strongest at-will.....
**dumps the garbage can, throws the remote through the window, sets fire to the carpet and yells**
Comparisons between the OLD COS AND THE NEW ONE......O.L.D. C.O.S... A.N.D. T.H.E. N.E.W. O.N.E...
**rips T-shirt, starts rolling the piano downstairs and jumps out the window screaming**
but more on topic, cloud of steel has never been a main dps at-will except for permas. it may be unlimited now, but it doesn't mean we should start flinging them like it is unlimited when anything else will hit harder
That's because you're not a WK.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
**dumps the garbage can, throws the remote through the window, sets fire to the carpet and yells**
Comparisons between the OLD COS AND THE NEW ONE......O.L.D. C.O.S... A.N.D. T.H.E. N.E.W. O.N.E...
**rips T-shirt, starts rolling the piano downstairs and jumps out the window screaming**
That's because you're not a WK.
i did say in my previous post a whisperknife might find it useful if they are never going to melee
as for old vs new cos, it doesn't need to be tested because the math is already there and someone has already confirmed it twice.
4 seconds of slinging old cos and then suffer the 24 second recharge vs unlimited knife throws
doesn't matter how much slower the new one is, that recharge time already made old cos lose. hence y i figured u meant something else since it was kinda obvious.
It's the executioneer path on the preview before it patched today. After this a TR-Mate and me cleared a medium encounter alone as executioneer, but only the first part because the server went down. Sadly i have no video of this.
I think the new executioneer is fine and will work pretty well. Thanks to gentlemancrush and the other devs for this magnificent redo of the rogue
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
0
lordfuzunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
You need to check as was said you need to compare the OLD COS to the NEW COS. And the way to compare DPS is to attack the a like target over a period of time longer than the old COS 8 charges unlocked. And if compare live server vs preview, you need to account for TR changes as well. That will definitely greate skew your testing resuts.
Cloud of Steel: This power no longer has charges and activates slightly slower.
Cloud of Steel: This power now deals 10% more damage. Feedback/Bug: CoS does 18% LESS damage and does not stack damage consecutively.
Duelist's Flurry: This power now activates faster.
Duelist's Flurry: The bleed from Duelist's flurry now deals 20% more damage. Feedback: Works great
Sly Flourish: The damage on this power now better reflects the activate time of each hit. The damage of the second, third, and final hits have all been increased.
Sly Flourish: The final hit of this combo now applies Broken Armor for 6 seconds. Broken Armor causes targets to take 5% more damage from all sources. Feedback: Increase in damage for consecutive hits is so small its negligible, final debuff is fine.
You need to check as was said you need to compare the OLD COS to the NEW COS. And the way to compare DPS is to attack the a like target over a period of time longer than the old COS 8 charges unlocked. And if compare live server vs preview, you need to account for TR changes as well. That will definitely greate skew your testing resuts.
can't since my act clears all the data if i stop attacking for a few seconds
but that's not necessary anyways. in order for old cos to out-dps new cos over a longer time-frame, it would need to deal like 3x the dps overall in it's limited shots. since only the last hit seems to have 3x the base damage, then the whole point is moot.
how many times do i have to say that its obvious new cos wins over a long time purely due to being unlimited. old cos is without a doubt stronger in a small interval (damage buff stacking, faster animation) and small intervals r the main use of cos anyways.
can't since my act clears all the data if i stop attacking for a few seconds
but that's not necessary anyways. in order for old cos to out-dps new cos over a longer time-frame, it would need to deal like 3x the dps overall in it's limited shots. since only the last hit seems to have 3x the base damage, then the whole point is moot.
how many times do i have to say that its obvious new cos wins over a long time purely due to being unlimited. old cos is without a doubt stronger in a small interval (damage buff stacking, faster animation) and small intervals r the main use of cos anyways.
but how many situations will you use CoS past 8 shots? Sure over time it does more damage if you stand there firing it for atleast 12 (takes about this many to do the same as old CoS with stacking damage and more base damage), then you may be doing more damage over time...but when do you stand in one spot and do this when you have other abilities that come off CD that can do wayyyy more damage?
It really makes no sense and im hoping they just stuffed something up.
0
lordfuzunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
edited November 2014
Initial feedback on At-Will changes.
Cloud of Steel changes means it now find a home on my power tray. The new steady DPS is nice that I'm not stuck situations with just a few charges and me just standing around.
Duelist Flurry speed up and extra bleed damage means I'll probably keep it on my power tray as well. I should be able to get some more hits on bosses between having to avoid splats. Very nice.
Sly Flourish extra damage. Wow. This is the reason why I may not use Duelist Flurry. My TR is only about 11K gear score as I mothballed here between Mod 1 and 2. But even so, I'm getting some very nice damage from Flourish. 1K -1.5K crits on the first new attacks and over 4K crits on the fourth attack. It hits like a truck for an At-Will power.
but how many situations will you use CoS past 8 shots? Sure over time it does more damage if you stand there firing it for atleast 12 (takes about this many to do the same as old CoS with stacking damage and more base damage), then you may be doing more damage over time...but when do you stand in one spot and do this when you have other abilities that come off CD that can do wayyyy more damage?
It really makes no sense and im hoping they just stuffed something up.
i'm not supporting the cos changes. kweassa just kept going T.E.S.T at me >.>
i do agree that it's far weaker unless you are a whisperknife i guess. 8-12 charges is enough for my needs since it's not like i have a great need to spam it when flurry is much stronger.
but how many situations will you use CoS past 8 shots? Sure over time it does more damage if you stand there firing it for atleast 12 (takes about this many to do the same as old CoS with stacking damage and more base damage), then you may be doing more damage over time...but when do you stand in one spot and do this when you have other abilities that come off CD that can do wayyyy more damage?
It really makes no sense and im hoping they just stuffed something up.
There are quick a few situations that have popped up just tonight. When fighting Green and Blue Dragons which have lingering DoT in their Wing Buffet AoE attacks and in Frozen Heart with all of the Rimfire Golems cutting loose with their AoEs in stagger fashion. I can't get close enough to attack with my Tr w/o risking taking a lot of damage. The limited 8 charge in CoS has me just standing around waiting to get a charge or two back. With the new CoS, I won't be a 0 DPS TR in those situations.
There are quick a few situations that have popped up just tonight. When fighting Green and Blue Dragons which have lingering DoT in their Wing Buffet AoE attacks and in Frozen Heart with all of the Rimfire Golems cutting loose with their AoEs in stagger fashion. I can't get close enough to attack with my Tr w/o risking taking a lot of damage. The limited 8 charge in CoS has me just standing around waiting to get a charge or two back. With the new CoS, I won't be a 0 DPS TR in those situations.
i'm tankier than most but saving itc for the wing flap can pretty much just let u tank it. or just dodge out, deft strike back in, and continue flurrying. all you need is to be able to life-steal more than all the deflected hits or just enough to survive a few seconds
for golems it can be annoying there even with itc, but i don't really count mobs since we were never built for dealing with them. we are best on bosses and let the ranged dps deal with the mobs.
im all for the unlimited charges, but as one of my previous posts has pointed out the base damage has been lowered and the damage is no longer stacking. when this is fixed it will be beastly.
Feedback: Cloud of Steel
Suggestion: let this power stack 8 times, dealing increased damage with each stack. All hits past 8th will do increased damage.
Bug: Thwarting Sacrifices
Some captives can't be released.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Like the new animation. Much more responsive in combat. I would suggest that you make the 20% buff to base damage and not just to bleed. A lot of times in pvp you only get the first 2 hits off.
Or you could consider having the bleed do a debuff and the sly flourish do harder hits. Then a TR could put a bleed and then follow up with sly flourish. Keeping us constantly attacking with different at wills.
Over all though I am liking the changes after an initial doubt period. I am really interested in testing the stealth regen changes as right now it is the main concern of TRs. Once you are out of stealth you are toast. I think with all of our attacks reducing/taking us out of stealth we shouldn't also be penalized for incoming damage reducing it. Not to mention in PVP we can be locked on while in stealth through known macros...
When Skullcracker is active the little icon below the character logo displays the description of One with the Shadows in the tooltip (even though the title of the tooltip is correctly shown as Skullcracker).
Feedback from my tests of the sabetuer paragon path. 9k gs All pve
Even tho I love rogue, dazing strike hits too fast. The damage is stacking nicely, rarely 1 hit except from stealth. Most gameplay is unchanged, however I take more damage than before because of the disappearing stealth. If the damage stealth reduction is added, there is no reason to keep stealth as a mechanic. It feels more like a beserker than a rogue as is, even as a sabetuer.
I hear a lot about the increased power from whirlwind of blades and such, I do not use those but I shall give them a try. As I play I am becoming used to the stealth and just timing the rotation faster. I do not think lvl 60 rogues will have a place above the floor in pvp if the stealth reduction by damage is added, as all classes have a aoe or DoT that can flush you out very fast.
Curious to know what the Devs say is their role in pvp/pve. The builds are varied and there is always an oppertunity for fun if you look on the bright side.
Bug Bug: I think sly flourish sets off one with the shadows sometimes
Have such a small stealth meter would be okay if rogues could poke harder...
These are my suspicions about tr role in pvp.
fight any class except GF, GWF, and SW. I actually do not to terribly against SW before changes, after we shall have problems.
rogue strength has been in our utility powers, ie bait and switch, smoke bomb, stealth, deft strike. We have not seemed to be a damage class ( as much as D&D rogues at any rate) changes to executioner tree especially have made a few clear gates open, with no real use for cleverness, because clever vs cc, cc always wins.
When I fight gwfs, the stun from flourish gives them enough time to kill me. If there was a way to stay out of cc long enough to pull a fast one without sacrificing a slot to put fast ones, it would improve our options.
Also I have found ways to perma in pve. I can tell it wont work in pvp tho.
Lastly I have a note on damage. I have chopped at a cw, without him fighting back for several minutes. The result? full hp for him and a dead Sadie (me ) I now read "distraction" in place of "striker." hrs are what we might have been, and we have one less dependable tool should these changes go through. There is not much to the trickster part if we have no tricks left.
Have such a small stealth meter would be okay if rogues could poke harder...
These are my suspicions about tr role in pvp.
fight any class except GF, GWF, and SW. I actually do not to terribly against SW before changes, after we shall have problems.
rogue strength has been in our utility powers, ie bait and switch, smoke bomb, stealth, deft strike. We have not seemed to be a damage class ( as much as D&D rogues at any rate) changes to executioner tree especially have made a few clear gates open, with no real use for cleverness, because clever vs cc, cc always wins.
When I fight gwfs, the stun from flourish gives them enough time to kill me. If there was a way to stay out of cc long enough to pull a fast one without sacrificing a slot to put fast ones, it would improve our options.
Also I have found ways to perma in pve. I can tell it wont work in pvp tho.
Lastly I have a note on damage. I have chopped at a cw, without him fighting back for several minutes. The result? full hp for him and a dead Sadie (me ) I now read "distraction" in place of "striker." hrs are what we might have been, and we have one less dependable tool should these changes go through. There is not much to the trickster part if we have no tricks left.
I did not read all 85 pages to see if somenone pointed that out but I can't believe this is not a bug :
Lurker assault : the stealth depletion with at-will powers applies when LA is active !!! This power is supposed to let us be in stealth for several seconds WITHOUT any other depletion than taking damages and SHOULD NOT be affected by at-will stealth depletion rule ! The way it is now, this daily is useless !
Please tell me this is just a bug.
And concerning stealth depletion, after testing for many hours, 15 % depletion per hit is way too high. Fo scale, we should be able to do a full DF in stealth, even with the depletion rule. I don't know how much % it could represent though.
Comments
I like it, it means all those little dots don't stack up and absolutely reset our stealth meter in 2-3s. Admittedly, any damage we take in the 15-35% of ourmax health range is going to hurt but I'm ok with this because of the resistance we gained to dots. And if we're hit for more than 40% of our max health we have much bigger worries all of the sudden. Though I'll admit being able to stealth once a hit like that lands would be convenient.
Overall the total changes have actually lowered our dps in PvE. We were already not very desired in PvE dungeon parties because we were redundant and not as effective as many other classes at our main job, single target dps. With these changes it gets that much harder to be good enough to get into a party.
In PvP these changes probably help a lot of balancing issues. Though I'll admit I didn't pvp much to begin with but when I did I either permastealthed and trolled on a point or I went semi and would destroy people with duelist flurry from stealth. Now you can really only pick one of these so it seems an overall good change for PvP.
But for PvE these changes seem, to me, to have crippled us.
that was the biggest waste of my time to test just to find out flurry does almost 3x the dps of cloud of steel in a 3 min time frame. but really, did u really need a graph to compare the at-wills in dps when it's common knowledge that flurry is our strongest at-will.....
annoyed me even more since act kept clearing out all the data after being inactive for a bit so i constantly had to do this over until i got a screenshot in paint quick enough.
but more on topic, cloud of steel has never been a main dps at-will except for permas. it may be unlimited now, but it doesn't mean we should start flinging them like it is unlimited when anything else will hit harder
Cloud of Steel: This power no longer has charges and activates slightly slower.
Cloud of Steel: This power now deals 10% more damage.
The beauty of old CoS is its scaling damage with its 8 stacks/charge, now with the updated CoS it gained unlimited charges(gives steady stream of dps) at the cost of burst damage and speed. I must say Im not impressed the clear picture of this in PVP is you will not live to spam that daggers, while in PVE it is nice to be safe from afar but at the cost of damage output so who will want a TR in group? Again you gave one you took away two .
Duelist's Flurry: This power now activates faster.
Duelist's Flurry: The bleed from Duelist's flurry now deals 20% more damage.
The speed boost is awesome and I love it! but the damage increase isnt noticeable it would be nice to have the base damage increase instead of the bleed. Thank you and job well done for this!
Sly Flourish: The damage on this power now better reflects the activate time of each hit. The damage of the second, third, and final hits have all been increased.
Sly Flourish: The final hit of this combo now applies Broken Armor for 6 seconds. Broken Armor causes targets to take 5% more damage from all sources.
The damage increase isnt noticeable and the broken armor is nice but Duelist Flurry still outshine this Atwill offensively. Im sure the best improvement (meaning you dont give one and remove two) is to provide this Atwill with scaling deflect chance and lifesteal.
Gloaming Cut: Base damage of this power has been reduced by roughly 15%.
Ohhhhh so dissapointing! its already slow! *sigh
Dodge: 30% stamina
Goodjob! but I want everyone to know that dodge's main purpose is to avoid damage and reposition/escape, it isnt intended to use so that TR can refill stealth(via the feat Twilight Adept). I would like to push my request in the removal of stealth drain on damage and to let it regenerate naturally when out of stealth I find it just and fair to remove so many disadvantages to this fragile stealth mechanic.
Bug: Vengeance Pursuit and Impact Shot
I found this bug while dueling, a CW used Icy Terrain and I got frozen my reaction is to use VP to escape and gap close but the moment I spam the button my TR epileptically did the "throw dagger animation" same happened when I used Impact Shot.
Bug: Disheartening
I have this one instance when I was stealthed I used Disheart as opening to a walking dwarf in IWD my TR did the animation but no dagger was released. I also noticed that in some very rare instances the range varies from time to time.
Base on my experience during my duel with a CW awhile ago using WK with all the three paths, Scoundrel did a great job I was able to fight back taking advantage of daze rotation but with shield he was able to endure my onslaught and sadly too much cc, aoe and damage overwhelmed my 14k GS TR I tried to buy time using stealth with shadow strike but countered it again and again with arcane singularity and Icy Terrain. The Saboteur also did a great job but I find Executioner very disappointing I used LB+FS+Dis+DS+SS combo but their shield is so durable and that teleport and cc lock CW have prevented me from inflicting further damage. I used BiS with Advantageous Position but CW still hits like a truck and I cant re enter stealth nor dodge away while frozen.
So we are still the numero uno underdog contender due to fragile stealth mechanic, useless feats out of stealth, unreasonable STAT design and most of all minute tools to survive. I see little improvement because some updates are coupled by nerf 1+1-2 is always zero no gain at all
Stealth isnt OP any class can counter this mechanic by simply running towards the TR and use AOE/cc then that TR is yours for the taking. This would probably my last post Im
**dumps the garbage can, throws the remote through the window, sets fire to the carpet and yells**
Comparisons between the OLD COS AND THE NEW ONE......O.L.D. C.O.S... A.N.D. T.H.E. N.E.W. O.N.E...
**rips T-shirt, starts rolling the piano downstairs and jumps out the window screaming**
That's because you're not a WK.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i did say in my previous post a whisperknife might find it useful if they are never going to melee
as for old vs new cos, it doesn't need to be tested because the math is already there and someone has already confirmed it twice.
4 seconds of slinging old cos and then suffer the 24 second recharge vs unlimited knife throws
doesn't matter how much slower the new one is, that recharge time already made old cos lose. hence y i figured u meant something else since it was kinda obvious.
It's the executioneer path on the preview before it patched today. After this a TR-Mate and me cleared a medium encounter alone as executioneer, but only the first part because the server went down. Sadly i have no video of this.
I think the new executioneer is fine and will work pretty well. Thanks to gentlemancrush and the other devs for this magnificent redo of the rogue
@kweassa
You seems to taking it quite well.
@demonkyuub
You need to check as was said you need to compare the OLD COS to the NEW COS. And the way to compare DPS is to attack the a like target over a period of time longer than the old COS 8 charges unlocked. And if compare live server vs preview, you need to account for TR changes as well. That will definitely greate skew your testing resuts.
Cloud of Steel: This power no longer has charges and activates slightly slower.
Cloud of Steel: This power now deals 10% more damage.
Feedback/Bug: CoS does 18% LESS damage and does not stack damage consecutively.
Duelist's Flurry: This power now activates faster.
Duelist's Flurry: The bleed from Duelist's flurry now deals 20% more damage.
Feedback: Works great
Sly Flourish: The damage on this power now better reflects the activate time of each hit. The damage of the second, third, and final hits have all been increased.
Sly Flourish: The final hit of this combo now applies Broken Armor for 6 seconds. Broken Armor causes targets to take 5% more damage from all sources.
Feedback: Increase in damage for consecutive hits is so small its negligible, final debuff is fine.
can't since my act clears all the data if i stop attacking for a few seconds
but that's not necessary anyways. in order for old cos to out-dps new cos over a longer time-frame, it would need to deal like 3x the dps overall in it's limited shots. since only the last hit seems to have 3x the base damage, then the whole point is moot.
how many times do i have to say that its obvious new cos wins over a long time purely due to being unlimited. old cos is without a doubt stronger in a small interval (damage buff stacking, faster animation) and small intervals r the main use of cos anyways.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
but how many situations will you use CoS past 8 shots? Sure over time it does more damage if you stand there firing it for atleast 12 (takes about this many to do the same as old CoS with stacking damage and more base damage), then you may be doing more damage over time...but when do you stand in one spot and do this when you have other abilities that come off CD that can do wayyyy more damage?
It really makes no sense and im hoping they just stuffed something up.
Cloud of Steel changes means it now find a home on my power tray. The new steady DPS is nice that I'm not stuck situations with just a few charges and me just standing around.
Duelist Flurry speed up and extra bleed damage means I'll probably keep it on my power tray as well. I should be able to get some more hits on bosses between having to avoid splats. Very nice.
Sly Flourish extra damage. Wow. This is the reason why I may not use Duelist Flurry. My TR is only about 11K gear score as I mothballed here between Mod 1 and 2. But even so, I'm getting some very nice damage from Flourish. 1K -1.5K crits on the first new attacks and over 4K crits on the fourth attack. It hits like a truck for an At-Will power.
i'm not supporting the cos changes. kweassa just kept going T.E.S.T at me >.>
i do agree that it's far weaker unless you are a whisperknife i guess. 8-12 charges is enough for my needs since it's not like i have a great need to spam it when flurry is much stronger.
oh okay lol, yeh i dont get why people are all for it. The burst of the old CoS was much more useful albeit lower DPM (damage per minute)
There are quick a few situations that have popped up just tonight. When fighting Green and Blue Dragons which have lingering DoT in their Wing Buffet AoE attacks and in Frozen Heart with all of the Rimfire Golems cutting loose with their AoEs in stagger fashion. I can't get close enough to attack with my Tr w/o risking taking a lot of damage. The limited 8 charge in CoS has me just standing around waiting to get a charge or two back. With the new CoS, I won't be a 0 DPS TR in those situations.
i'm tankier than most but saving itc for the wing flap can pretty much just let u tank it. or just dodge out, deft strike back in, and continue flurrying. all you need is to be able to life-steal more than all the deflected hits or just enough to survive a few seconds
for golems it can be annoying there even with itc, but i don't really count mobs since we were never built for dealing with them. we are best on bosses and let the ranged dps deal with the mobs.
Suggestion: let this power stack 8 times, dealing increased damage with each stack. All hits past 8th will do increased damage.
Bug: Thwarting Sacrifices
Some captives can't be released.
Like the new animation. Much more responsive in combat. I would suggest that you make the 20% buff to base damage and not just to bleed. A lot of times in pvp you only get the first 2 hits off.
Or you could consider having the bleed do a debuff and the sly flourish do harder hits. Then a TR could put a bleed and then follow up with sly flourish. Keeping us constantly attacking with different at wills.
Over all though I am liking the changes after an initial doubt period. I am really interested in testing the stealth regen changes as right now it is the main concern of TRs. Once you are out of stealth you are toast. I think with all of our attacks reducing/taking us out of stealth we shouldn't also be penalized for incoming damage reducing it. Not to mention in PVP we can be locked on while in stealth through known macros...
When Skullcracker is active the little icon below the character logo displays the description of One with the Shadows in the tooltip (even though the title of the tooltip is correctly shown as Skullcracker).
Even tho I love rogue, dazing strike hits too fast. The damage is stacking nicely, rarely 1 hit except from stealth. Most gameplay is unchanged, however I take more damage than before because of the disappearing stealth. If the damage stealth reduction is added, there is no reason to keep stealth as a mechanic. It feels more like a beserker than a rogue as is, even as a sabetuer.
I hear a lot about the increased power from whirlwind of blades and such, I do not use those but I shall give them a try. As I play I am becoming used to the stealth and just timing the rotation faster. I do not think lvl 60 rogues will have a place above the floor in pvp if the stealth reduction by damage is added, as all classes have a aoe or DoT that can flush you out very fast.
Curious to know what the Devs say is their role in pvp/pve. The builds are varied and there is always an oppertunity for fun if you look on the bright side.
Bug Bug: I think sly flourish sets off one with the shadows sometimes
all the changes have distroyed tr perfomance.
i dont know the changes to other classes but all over heal everything.
DC can take my damages for 5 minutes and turn back to full HP while BEING AFK.
CLOUD IS CLUNKY, SLY IS AWFULL, GLOAMING NOW HITS FOR MAX 4K.
TOOLS TO SURVIVE OUT OF STEALTH ARE ZERO. NO STEALTH MEANS DEAD ---> me still derping around on a node stealthed without attacking is the result.
this time i literally lost my hopes. literally.
These are my suspicions about tr role in pvp.
fight any class except GF, GWF, and SW. I actually do not to terribly against SW before changes, after we shall have problems.
rogue strength has been in our utility powers, ie bait and switch, smoke bomb, stealth, deft strike. We have not seemed to be a damage class ( as much as D&D rogues at any rate) changes to executioner tree especially have made a few clear gates open, with no real use for cleverness, because clever vs cc, cc always wins.
When I fight gwfs, the stun from flourish gives them enough time to kill me. If there was a way to stay out of cc long enough to pull a fast one without sacrificing a slot to put fast ones, it would improve our options.
Also I have found ways to perma in pve. I can tell it wont work in pvp tho.
Lastly I have a note on damage. I have chopped at a cw, without him fighting back for several minutes. The result? full hp for him and a dead Sadie (me ) I now read "distraction" in place of "striker." hrs are what we might have been, and we have one less dependable tool should these changes go through. There is not much to the trickster part if we have no tricks left.
exactly combat hr is what a tr should be. le sigh
It does not confuse someone if they know they can take whatever you throw at them. I have not tested pvp yet tho
Lurker assault : the stealth depletion with at-will powers applies when LA is active !!! This power is supposed to let us be in stealth for several seconds WITHOUT any other depletion than taking damages and SHOULD NOT be affected by at-will stealth depletion rule ! The way it is now, this daily is useless !
Please tell me this is just a bug.
And concerning stealth depletion, after testing for many hours, 15 % depletion per hit is way too high. Fo scale, we should be able to do a full DF in stealth, even with the depletion rule. I don't know how much % it could represent though.