Im not talking about normal AD sinks here, last mod was arround 25+ million AD sink and next mod is even worse it seems.
New rings with 2x Enchantment slots, Offhand with 2x Enchantment slot, neck with 2x Enchantment slot. It was enough with the belt and the main hand, really.
That means 4 more Rank 10s for a lot of players trying to compete in PvP. Im sure there are plenty of decked out PvE players aswell. Thats is at least 10 million AD in just getting the enchants. + refining the offhand + refining the neck.
Where is this going to end? When can we relax and play the game?
How do you expect players to get the AD for this when you have taken away all the possibilities to make any AD by playing the game?
How is the content and difficulty going to be with the power creep is so insanely high? There is no content for the gear you are giving us besides PvP! And PvP is getting 0 attention.
How will new players do, that try to gear up in PvP, get glory, do their daily, when they meet a player with 30k GS, 10K power and 60K HP? It wont be a fun experience
And please, to the forums trolls that will say " Well you dont have to do all those things, you can just play it slow like us and enjoy the game for its dailies" - just stop it pls
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited October 2014
I disagree, to an extent. We need the AD Sinks. However, what we need are more Cheap AD Sinks that encourage repeat purchases and less of the Expensive AD Sinks that discourage repeat purchases. "Less is more" and in this case, "less" should be applied to the prices of the majority of AD Sinks we have now.
IMO, the AD sinks are good for the minority. I have over a dozen characters with Ldrship 20, 9 slots each. On top of that I run dungeons and Dailies on every one of them. Been doing this for a year.. and yet I find myself AD broke, due to these sinks. The fact is, and it is fact, that a player starting today who isn't ready to sink a couple thousand dollars into this game, is going to get some entertainment, getting to 60. Then he's going to start to feel overwhelmed. When I was there, there were clear paths to everything and I wasn't even concerned with amassing AD. Now? That's all that matters.
Summary- Yes AD sinks are good and necessary. But they should be for those who have an over-abundance of AD (the minority.) When they become necessary for progression (and you are, in my opinion, a liar if you say they haven't) then they are a very bad thing.
Eh. I don't care. Do whatever.. that's what I always do.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
I disagree, to an extent. We need the AD Sinks. However, what we need are more Cheap AD Sinks that encourage repeat purchases and less of the Expensive AD Sinks that discourage repeat purchases. "Less is more" and in this case, "less" should be applied to the prices of the majority of AD Sinks we have now.
I agree with this. I tend to hop from alt to alt, have no level 10 enchants, and not a single piece of artifact gear. To me, aesthetic and QoL items are more important. I'd like to see the frustration taken out of some areas, and a better process for bringing many different characters "up to speed" introduced.
Dread Ring is my typical go-to campaign for that initial gearing up once I hit 60, and I feel that the other campaigns do not offer the degree of immediate return on investment like it does.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I disagree, to an extent. We need the AD Sinks. However, what we need are more Cheap AD Sinks that encourage repeat purchases and less of the Expensive AD Sinks that discourage repeat purchases. "Less is more" and in this case, "less" should be applied to the prices of the majority of AD Sinks we have now.
This 100%. I'd rather farm 10 Million worth of seperate purchases at smaller amounts, then try and save for one 10 million AD purchase. It gives you a sense of accomplishment, where as the big purchases just make you burn out and get tired of farming.
There are a bunch of responses here mostly from people that don't PvP. I have to admit I fully agree with the OP.
When I heard about having to refine at least 2 more pieces of artifact gear (Off hand and neck), I was angry. When I realized they had 2 more enchantment slots and you needed to RNG roll stats with the Cube on the OH, I was furiously angry.
Today I hear I will replace rings too, so I need at least 4 R9s, as I won't be able to afford 10s probably.
That is:
- 2-3 Artifact Gear
- 4 R9-10s
There are no ways to farm AD in the game like you do in other MMOs. I soloed CN and got 130K AD - I mean, really? There are methods of making AD though, but yeh, they aren't exactly kosher, if you know what I mean, so I am staying away.
And please, if you're a PvE player, please try to understand you actually need this gear or you aren't able to premade, regardless of your skills. Considering the amount of enchants we have on gear now with all the additional slots, even Rank 9s start to seem inappropriate, as most people slot Radiants, and neither HP or Power have Diminishing Returns.
It is a dumb situation that just makes people think why they are still bothering.
AD sinks are a two edged sword.
The good is that the backlog goes away in the ZAX, and prices come down on everything in AH giving new players a chance to buy things with the 24k RAD they can refine. Rank 6s and tier 1-2 gear are fairly cheap nowadays.
The bad is that after a certain point even new players have to grind for these new AD sinks, and the 24k RAD doesn't even scratch the surface on that grind. And with cheaper prices on the AH you can't do dungeons to get the AD you need in any timeless fashion (see castle never).
Of course, cryptic would have you buy Zen to get that last 20? - 50?- 100? million RP you need. (who knows...we'll be refining arty mounts in mod 6 i hear, and mod 7 or 8 when the level cap goes up we can all start over on our new level 70 artifact gear )
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
And please, if you're a PvE player, please try to understand you actually need this gear or you aren't able to premade, regardless of your skills. Considering the amount of enchants we have on gear now with all the additional slots, even Rank 9s start to seem inappropriate, as most people slot Radiants, and neither HP or Power have Diminishing Returns.
I'm primarily a PvE player and I think the gearflation was insane before they introduced 4 more enchant slots. And I'm choosing to completely ignore the artifact sets.
The PvPers can't keep up with the gearing and the PvE can't keep up with the PvEers' gear.
I'm primarily a PvE player and I think the gearflation was insane before they introduced 4 more enchant slots. And I'm choosing to completely ignore the artifact sets.
The PvPers can't keep up with the gearing and the PvE can't keep up with the PvEers' gear.
Another problem is that PvPers are pretty much forced to wear more and more PvE gear. At this time almost all the glory/seals gear is USELESS with very few exceptions.
You cannot keep wearing profound neck, purified off hand or soon Tenacity ring set anymore.
So PvP is back to PvE gear almost fully, a BI armor set and rest will be no-Tenacity gear.
Sigh.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited November 2014
Oh. Oh gosh.
Next new gear could very well be Glory/Triumph with overload slots and you'll be starting over there as well.
Don't get where pve vs pvp entered this. Whichever you favor costs a crapload of AD to keep from being a reaper-magnet. A year ago you could achieve that by just doing stuff. Now, you spend AD or you get eaten. Again... who says different, lies, or does not see.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
Don't get where pve vs pvp entered this. Whichever you favor costs a crapload of AD to keep from being a reaper-magnet. A year ago you could achieve that by just doing stuff. Now, you spend AD or you get eaten. Again... who says different, lies, or does not see.
I could be wrong, but I think the point was that there is this "need" to keep up with the best enchants & gear in PvP, whereas you can pretty much do PvE successfully with just purple drops from Dread Ring/IWD/T1/T2 dungeons.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I disagree, to an extent. We need the AD Sinks. However, what we need are more Cheap AD Sinks that encourage repeat purchases and less of the Expensive AD Sinks that discourage repeat purchases. "Less is more" and in this case, "less" should be applied to the prices of the majority of AD Sinks we have now.
My sentiments exactly. 50k AD to change the class bonus on offhand gear? That's a bit steep for someone still kitting out his alts in R7 enchants. Heck, I rarely have more than 150k between toons at any given time. Let's do 5 or 10k. It's still enough to discourage abuse, but low enough to encourage users.
We really need to go back to mod 2 (and even mod 3) AD expenditure. In DR, we dropped over 60k AD easily, but it was in manageable amounts of 1 or 2k. Sharandar took some smart planning and saving, as did IWD, but if all you wanted was boons and lair keys, it was quite manageable.
ToD has had us dropping 20+k per pop for boons, arti (which was never even guaranteed until mod 5 - 3 tries and you get it, so ~60k max), skirm (which was free for mods 1 & 2, though not for 3, which was understandable as 3 had no dungeon), and dungeon. So, with ToD, you're dropping about as much as Sharandar (5 boons + MC) for 3 boons, dung, skirm, and 1st shot arti weap. That's not even covering the AD burned voluntarily to buy necessary implements because of poor RNG or RP gems.
At mod 5 most players would be 20k+GS and the duns are still the same.
I didn't even bother with my cw's weapon: She got her art weapon to epic and that's it, do i really need to go to for BiS just to kill some AI's? their not even coded wisely anyway!
Some months ago we cry for AD sinks, now the drama is reverse
AD's are raining if you know how to play AH, got a good trading time, and reading the WTT chat thoroughly, you'll be surprise "SOME" of the players are RUSH sellers/buyers I too when I got too heated
StrawberryCheesecake TR BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] CheeseCake House
The reason people cried for AD sinks was because it was assumed the reason the exchange was out of whack was due to the lack of demand for AD. That came to be not quite so true. Of course sinks and reduction of sinks did help drain some of the excess AD. People assumed if there was lets say a big bug, that it wouldn't have gone unnoticed for so long by them.
I disagree, to an extent. We need the AD Sinks. However, what we need are more Cheap AD Sinks that encourage repeat purchases and less of the Expensive AD Sinks that discourage repeat purchases. "Less is more" and in this case, "less" should be applied to the prices of the majority of AD Sinks we have now.
Of course we need AD sinks, but in moderation. Right now, mod4 and mod5, are AD sinks to the billionaires. And i only know less then 5 people with 1+ billion AD. Why should the rest of us compete with them? It is impossible. I really dont know how i will afford 4 more rank 10s (on one charr). It is not cheap you know.
Im not so sure about this game anymore. I was convinced Mod4 was a big AD sink because of recent exploits and it was fine, but since it goes on to mod 5 it is definitely too much.
I've already spent 40+ million AD gearing up two characters. For the next mod i will need at least 50 mill. 8 new rank 10s? 25 mill, at least. Getting weapon, neck, belt, artifact to legendary? i dont even know anymore.
AD dont grow on trees in this game, and AD sinks should not slow us down in progress. AD sinks should be a luxury that only caters to the rich folks and makes them want to buy it, like mount upgrades etc. It should not have anything to do with progression or character strength !
Of course we need AD sinks, but in moderation. Right now, mod4 and mod5, are AD sinks to the billionaires. And i only know less then 5 people with 1+ billion AD. Why should the rest of us compete with them? It is impossible. I really dont know how i will afford 4 more rank 10s (on one charr). It is not cheap you know.
Im not so sure about this game anymore. I was convinced Mod4 was a big AD sink because of recent exploits and it was fine, but since it goes on to mod 5 it is definitely too much.
I've already spent 40+ million AD gearing up two characters. For the next mod i will need at least 50 mill. 8 new rank 10s? 25 mill, at least. Getting weapon, neck, belt, artifact to legendary? i dont even know anymore.
AD dont grow on trees in this game, and AD sinks should not slow us down in progress. AD sinks should be a luxury that only caters to the rich folks and makes them want to buy it, like mount upgrades etc. It should not have anything to do with progression or character strength !
Well one of the thing I hate is the lack of AD we can farm nowadays. I have to say that I think Ad should still be used somewhat to progress, though not really at this extent. Also you hardly need rank 10s...
Well one of the thing I hate is the lack of AD we can farm nowadays. I have to say that I think Ad should still be used somewhat to progress, though not really at this extent. Also you hardly need rank 10s...
Maybe you dont, but for NW end game, aka PVP, you definitely do
If you think this is AD sink I'll tell you one thing : just imagine the world without the little things going in and out of Arcane reservoir ! Well THAT will be THE SINK
If you see this and have the answer - PM me or answer real quick because this post will be removed
I fail to believe 40 gs per enchant is the difference between a win and a loss.
Well when you start having 15+ enchantment slots on one character it does make quite the difference. Its all power or HP, which has no cap. Thats why it is a big difference. And they wont change so they keep the most expensive items desirable
IMO, the AD sinks are good for the minority. I have over a dozen characters with Ldrship 20, 9 slots each. On top of that I run dungeons and Dailies on every one of them. Been doing this for a year.. and yet I find myself AD broke, due to these sinks. The fact is, and it is fact, that a player starting today who isn't ready to sink a couple thousand dollars into this game, is going to get some entertainment, getting to 60. Then he's going to start to feel overwhelmed. When I was there, there were clear paths to everything and I wasn't even concerned with amassing AD. Now? That's all that matters.
Summary- Yes AD sinks are good and necessary. But they should be for those who have an over-abundance of AD (the minority.) When they become necessary for progression (and you are, in my opinion, a liar if you say they haven't) then they are a very bad thing.
Eh. I don't care. Do whatever.. that's what I always do.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
0
luxarkMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I disagree, to an extent. We need the AD Sinks. However, what we need are more Cheap AD Sinks that encourage repeat purchases and less of the Expensive AD Sinks that discourage repeat purchases. "Less is more" and in this case, "less" should be applied to the prices of the majority of AD Sinks we have now.
The problem are AD-sinks that give actual power. You cannot balance the game on a minority, that got everything plus billions of AD.
The majority of the playerbase will probaly never have everything with rank 10 enchants and stuff like that. They do not need even more AD-sinks.
Edit: Sprawlfx actually sumarized it a lot better than i could. And i feel at the moment exactly how he describes it: overwhelmed by how much AD i actually need.
If Cryptic wants to continue in this direction i seriously believe they need to slow down a lot and bring more content to PvP. Arenas, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 and also further develop the pvp content they already have.
The power creep, high HP, rank 10s, legendaries caters only to the PvP crowd. And yet, the PvP crowd are the ones still stuck with 2 maps since beta.
Comments
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Summary- Yes AD sinks are good and necessary. But they should be for those who have an over-abundance of AD (the minority.) When they become necessary for progression (and you are, in my opinion, a liar if you say they haven't) then they are a very bad thing.
Eh. I don't care. Do whatever.. that's what I always do.
I agree with this. I tend to hop from alt to alt, have no level 10 enchants, and not a single piece of artifact gear. To me, aesthetic and QoL items are more important. I'd like to see the frustration taken out of some areas, and a better process for bringing many different characters "up to speed" introduced.
Dread Ring is my typical go-to campaign for that initial gearing up once I hit 60, and I feel that the other campaigns do not offer the degree of immediate return on investment like it does.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
This 100%. I'd rather farm 10 Million worth of seperate purchases at smaller amounts, then try and save for one 10 million AD purchase. It gives you a sense of accomplishment, where as the big purchases just make you burn out and get tired of farming.
There is no hurry
There is no rush
There is no need to be upset.
I'm not sure if this topic is about "needing AD to be someone in the game" or "there's enough AD burning in the NPCs"; it seems like a mix of these.
When I heard about having to refine at least 2 more pieces of artifact gear (Off hand and neck), I was angry. When I realized they had 2 more enchantment slots and you needed to RNG roll stats with the Cube on the OH, I was furiously angry.
Today I hear I will replace rings too, so I need at least 4 R9s, as I won't be able to afford 10s probably.
That is:
- 2-3 Artifact Gear
- 4 R9-10s
There are no ways to farm AD in the game like you do in other MMOs. I soloed CN and got 130K AD - I mean, really? There are methods of making AD though, but yeh, they aren't exactly kosher, if you know what I mean, so I am staying away.
And please, if you're a PvE player, please try to understand you actually need this gear or you aren't able to premade, regardless of your skills. Considering the amount of enchants we have on gear now with all the additional slots, even Rank 9s start to seem inappropriate, as most people slot Radiants, and neither HP or Power have Diminishing Returns.
It is a dumb situation that just makes people think why they are still bothering.
The good is that the backlog goes away in the ZAX, and prices come down on everything in AH giving new players a chance to buy things with the 24k RAD they can refine. Rank 6s and tier 1-2 gear are fairly cheap nowadays.
The bad is that after a certain point even new players have to grind for these new AD sinks, and the 24k RAD doesn't even scratch the surface on that grind. And with cheaper prices on the AH you can't do dungeons to get the AD you need in any timeless fashion (see castle never).
Of course, cryptic would have you buy Zen to get that last 20? - 50?- 100? million RP you need. (who knows...we'll be refining arty mounts in mod 6 i hear, and mod 7 or 8 when the level cap goes up we can all start over on our new level 70 artifact gear )
I'm primarily a PvE player and I think the gearflation was insane before they introduced 4 more enchant slots. And I'm choosing to completely ignore the artifact sets.
The PvPers can't keep up with the gearing and the PvE can't keep up with the PvEers' gear.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Another problem is that PvPers are pretty much forced to wear more and more PvE gear. At this time almost all the glory/seals gear is USELESS with very few exceptions.
You cannot keep wearing profound neck, purified off hand or soon Tenacity ring set anymore.
So PvP is back to PvE gear almost fully, a BI armor set and rest will be no-Tenacity gear.
Sigh.
Next new gear could very well be Glory/Triumph with overload slots and you'll be starting over there as well.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I could be wrong, but I think the point was that there is this "need" to keep up with the best enchants & gear in PvP, whereas you can pretty much do PvE successfully with just purple drops from Dread Ring/IWD/T1/T2 dungeons.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
My sentiments exactly. 50k AD to change the class bonus on offhand gear? That's a bit steep for someone still kitting out his alts in R7 enchants. Heck, I rarely have more than 150k between toons at any given time. Let's do 5 or 10k. It's still enough to discourage abuse, but low enough to encourage users.
We really need to go back to mod 2 (and even mod 3) AD expenditure. In DR, we dropped over 60k AD easily, but it was in manageable amounts of 1 or 2k. Sharandar took some smart planning and saving, as did IWD, but if all you wanted was boons and lair keys, it was quite manageable.
ToD has had us dropping 20+k per pop for boons, arti (which was never even guaranteed until mod 5 - 3 tries and you get it, so ~60k max), skirm (which was free for mods 1 & 2, though not for 3, which was understandable as 3 had no dungeon), and dungeon. So, with ToD, you're dropping about as much as Sharandar (5 boons + MC) for 3 boons, dung, skirm, and 1st shot arti weap. That's not even covering the AD burned voluntarily to buy necessary implements because of poor RNG or RP gems.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I didn't even bother with my cw's weapon: She got her art weapon to epic and that's it, do i really need to go to for BiS just to kill some AI's? their not even coded wisely anyway!
Some months ago we cry for AD sinks, now the drama is reverse
AD's are raining if you know how to play AH, got a good trading time, and reading the WTT chat thoroughly, you'll be surprise "SOME" of the players are RUSH sellers/buyers I too when I got too heated
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
Of course we need AD sinks, but in moderation. Right now, mod4 and mod5, are AD sinks to the billionaires. And i only know less then 5 people with 1+ billion AD. Why should the rest of us compete with them? It is impossible. I really dont know how i will afford 4 more rank 10s (on one charr). It is not cheap you know.
Im not so sure about this game anymore. I was convinced Mod4 was a big AD sink because of recent exploits and it was fine, but since it goes on to mod 5 it is definitely too much.
I've already spent 40+ million AD gearing up two characters. For the next mod i will need at least 50 mill. 8 new rank 10s? 25 mill, at least. Getting weapon, neck, belt, artifact to legendary? i dont even know anymore.
AD dont grow on trees in this game, and AD sinks should not slow us down in progress. AD sinks should be a luxury that only caters to the rich folks and makes them want to buy it, like mount upgrades etc. It should not have anything to do with progression or character strength !
Well one of the thing I hate is the lack of AD we can farm nowadays. I have to say that I think Ad should still be used somewhat to progress, though not really at this extent. Also you hardly need rank 10s...
Maybe you dont, but for NW end game, aka PVP, you definitely do
I fail to believe 40 gs per enchant is the difference between a win and a loss.
Well when you start having 15+ enchantment slots on one character it does make quite the difference. Its all power or HP, which has no cap. Thats why it is a big difference. And they wont change so they keep the most expensive items desirable
I agree 100%.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
The problem are AD-sinks that give actual power. You cannot balance the game on a minority, that got everything plus billions of AD.
The majority of the playerbase will probaly never have everything with rank 10 enchants and stuff like that. They do not need even more AD-sinks.
Edit: Sprawlfx actually sumarized it a lot better than i could. And i feel at the moment exactly how he describes it: overwhelmed by how much AD i actually need.
The power creep, high HP, rank 10s, legendaries caters only to the PvP crowd. And yet, the PvP crowd are the ones still stuck with 2 maps since beta.
This 99% includes *low-level* and *mid-level* PVP.
Only that 1% of tippy-top-end PVP requires absolute BIS gear. And for that, there's the credit card.