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Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes

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  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    if i ask for a CW nerfs on a pvp opinion, i would like to get CW at the point where he is using at least 2 dodges fighting a GWF, not killing him in 1 rotation. you know what i mean m8 , by sayin this.
    i mean that they dont need to kill us fast without even put any efforts.
    thats why i didn't like the feedback from gwf, there are alots of GWF players on our side that want BALANCE, never posted something or intended something makin us overpowered, but there are people like you who come to that part of our feedback and whined about nerfs.. so they wrecked us very bad, so for that reason i hate you, but i still i am ethical enough to mind my own(class) buisness.

    the changes on each class dont need to be BIG , some small tweaks and they will bring balance.
    thats why if you want to bring a good feedback, tell about your own class real problems, not keepin who knows what build that isn't working as intended. Look at Hrs, i dont see any Hrs posting in this feedback at all... seems they dont see any problem with their op class :p

    So you are asking for a buff to CW since on an average 50k pv GWF you need at min 3 full spell rotation if he don't move and around 6-8 dodge. the problem here. you wish for something without giving any detail. there is such difference between 10 and 20 kgs and even between pur pvp / hybrid / pve build. Every pur pvp build will kill every pve build in one power rotation max no matter the two class involved while on opposite the pve will need at least 3 power rotation or more. the problem in pvp is first the big GS gap in lvl 60 between fresh lvl 60 and full geared player but also the fact the high defense / pv build take path against dps build. mainly because while doubled your base PV if you try getting higher dps you will gain around 10-15 % more dps with same amount of point.

    after it simply math. if two players have 24k hp and do 25k damage in one full rotation. the first one increase let say 15% damage on power (on a 3.5k power start lvl it mean in reality around 3-4k power more) mean you get 12-16k hp more for the second who take hP
    at the end the first one do 29k damage with 24k HP the second do 25k damage with 37-41 k HP. if the two are fighting equaly who win ? the second. increase that with regen and you get your result 100% of time.

    And for GWF who cry it's always destroyer GWF not sentinel. The main reason is for lot a bad habit taken in v3 where with an overage defense mixed with inflexible GWF were able to systematicly goes higher in DR than the cap limit. so since gwf was already able to goes on the highest possible defense without even think of path, choice was easy to do and you only needed to take the highest DPS. It was giving many issue to rebuild since it was affecting also GF since you were able to get same defense lvl, other two GWF path, PVP part was also affected because you weren't needed a special build to already be highly competitive against most class. maybe not able to goes on top 10 page but for a high geared pve gwf top 50 page was easely to goes with a pur pve/ dps build
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    sygfried94 wrote: »
    So you are asking for a buff to CW since on an average 50k pv GWF you need at min 3 full spell rotation if he don't move and around 6-8 dodge. the problem here. you wish for something without giving any detail. there is such difference between 10 and 20 kgs and even between pur pvp / hybrid / pve build. Every pur pvp build will kill every pve build in one power rotation max no matter the two class involved while on opposite the pve will need at least 3 power rotation or more. the problem in pvp is first the big GS gap in lvl 60 between fresh lvl 60 and full geared player but also the fact the high defense / pv build take path against dps build. mainly because while doubled your base PV if you try getting higher dps you will gain around 10-15 % more dps with same amount of point.

    after it simply math. if two players have 24k hp and do 25k damage in one full rotation. the first one increase let say 15% damage on power (on a 3.5k power start lvl it mean in reality around 3-4k power more) mean you get 12-16k hp more for the second who take hP
    at the end the first one do 29k damage with 24k HP the second do 25k damage with 37-41 k HP. if the two are fighting equaly who win ? the second. increase that with regen and you get your result 100% of time.

    And for GWF who cry it's always destroyer GWF not sentinel. The main reason is for lot a bad habit taken in v3 where with an overage defense mixed with inflexible GWF were able to systematicly goes higher in DR than the cap limit. so since gwf was already able to goes on the highest possible defense without even think of path, choice was easy to do and you only needed to take the highest DPS. It was giving many issue to rebuild since it was affecting also GF since you were able to get same defense lvl, other two GWF path, PVP part was also affected because you weren't needed a special build to already be highly competitive against most class. maybe not able to goes on top 10 page but for a high geared pve gwf top 50 page was easely to goes with a pur pve/ dps build

    FIRST OF ALL LETS NOT CONFUSE THE META ON LIVE WITH THE META ON PREVIEW THAT ISN'T THERE YET.
    i dont wish a buff for cw, but i dont wish a nerf either, i just wish equality .
    ofc a 50k hp gwf will beat a 20k hp cw everytime, but a 42k hp cw and a 50k hp gwf is equal imo,

    yes GWF destroyer lacks on live
    as GWF sentinel does pretty well, but against players with defense/deflect he kinda sux

    in mod5 we will have more stats, so that means?
    yes, we will see probably TR/CW with higher deflect/defense so what does that mean for a GWF?
    GWF only burst was CAGI/DAringshout, and it was toned down from 50% to 35% , and that is a huge for this only reason.
    a senti GWF for PVP if he stacks more than 9k power, he will lack so much from dr and deflect.
    so yeah. so what is wrong if devs are tonnin down some of the CW damage?
    dont you see they are adding more and more power creep?
    the reason they are nerfing things is for that reason, cause they are adding new stuff: for example offhand: that boosts a class feature. wont be that op if everythin stays as it is on live?

    so what we need to do is to bring feedback and tell them how every change they made so far is working. cause new meta in mod5 will be for pvp either way are you lookin at it.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    FIRST OF ALL LETS NOT CONFUSE THE META ON LIVE WITH THE META ON PREVIEW THAT ISN'T THERE YET.
    i dont wish a buff for cw, but i dont wish a nerf either, i just wish equality .
    ofc a 50k hp gwf will beat a 20k hp cw everytime, but a 42k hp cw and a 50k hp gwf is equal imo,

    yes GWF destroyer lacks on live
    as GWF sentinel does pretty well, but against players with defense/deflect he kinda sux

    in mod5 we will have more stats, so that means?
    yes, we will see probably TR/CW with higher deflect/defense so what does that mean for a GWF?
    GWF only burst was CAGI/DAringshout, and it was toned down from 50% to 35% , and that is a huge for this only reason.
    a senti GWF for PVP if he stacks more than 9k power, he will lack so much from dr and deflect.
    so yeah. so what is wrong if devs are tonnin down some of the CW damage?
    dont you see they are adding more and more power creep?
    the reason they are nerfing things is for that reason, cause they are adding new stuff: for example offhand: that boosts a class feature. wont be that op if everythin stays as it is on live?

    so what we need to do is to bring feedback and tell them how every change they made so far is working. cause new meta in mod5 will be for pvp either way are you lookin at it.

    TR/CW with more defense what it mean for GWF: it mean nothing. a GWF with let say 24 base DR + 20 CONS already ignore 34% DR.
    to get at more than 34%DR with a CW you need to goes practicaly at 3000 defense points. that mean what ever i have 0 or 3k defense i will take same damage with my CW (full damage).

    SO what wrong toning down some CW damage ? first by shooting general damage your are not only affect high tuned geared CW but the whole player also the fresh lvl 1 beginner. Starting a CW is already the hardest class among those i tested unless you get storm spell and assaillant. it'S THE ONLY CLASS where i died in the crown quest (the first one given by sergent knox).
    Higher power set tend to give easier job for those who finish all and that goes on old dongeon, but those who are in build they don't have it neitheir the v4 set or the v3 ice set. they play with green/ blue gear

    And that why unless something is completly out of control like one shot power i'm not found of nerfing power on class because i also think of newcomer. ANd if dev forgot newcomer, this game is already dead by just counting on old player
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    CW is 100% dead right now in terms of PvP.

    Any news from the devs would be nice. Will CWs be made somehow viable on preview again? Or should mage fans start looking for a new game?
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    meldan3n wrote: »
    CW is 100% dead right now in terms of PvP.

    Any news from the devs would be nice. Will CWs be made somehow viable on preview again? Or should mage fans start looking for a new game?

    Most of the long time CWs quit a long time ago.

    If you noticed, a lot of the CWs in the early parts of module 4 are new flavor of the month toons.

    That is because long-time hardcore PVP CWs knew that PVP CW repeatedly get the short end of the stick.

    And of course, don't forget that PVP CWs get the shaft because of all the crying about PVE CWs
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    These SS changes get through I'm just going back to MoF. Ridiculous. It's bad enough CW's encounters were nerfed to oblivion but now the SS requires a steady amount of crit JUST to be viable DPS-wise. Plus nerfing orb of imposition alongside now practically requiring EotS to make spellstorm efficient, meaning you can't even slot orb of imposition anyway so you don't even have a choice between damage or control. No rational thought behind these changes.

    I liked losing the burst from EotS in favor of better control, but forget it now if spellstorm won't even proc except when it probably won't matter when it does like something with 5% HP left.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Most of the long time CWs quit a long time ago.

    If you noticed, a lot of the CWs in the early parts of module 4 are new flavor of the month toons.

    That is because long-time hardcore PVP CWs knew that PVP CW repeatedly get the short end of the stick.

    And of course, don't forget that PVP CWs get the shaft because of all the crying about PVE CWs

    Yea its really sad for you cws I mean the gf had a blast in pve/pvp the last 8 month before module 4 and the tr is really having a blast still until module 5.
    Not to mention the dc in pvp.
    About crying non cryed more then the cws about gwfs in pvp so they got nerfed in pve.
    Of all classes in this game if you combine pve and pvp no class has been more on the good side of the bat then the cws in total.

    As in all games that last a couple of years old classes that was bad get new stuff become good and the good gets nerfed or no new stuff and becomes bad.
    New classes are added that changes balance and even makes some old class obsolete etc etc.
    But dam you cws are all over the forums even in other classes where you shouldent be, trust me not many feel sorry for you because frankly there isent much to feel sorry about.

    Not even the gf class came close to your never ending whining and trust me you have not been anywhere close that their situation...

    I just have to quote mr magiquepurse its rather hilarious in this thread....
    Get good, or pretty much shut up.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Ah right so we're back to dread ring days fodder, great. Like we could see that coming 20 pages ago. Granted the devs can't tell the difference between the clamour of people confusing pvp and pve and the general rabble who always want wizards to take a hit in general. Ah well. Eat a fat one wizards said every other class. Don't worry guys, you are still redundant in pve, the actual fun part of the game.
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    marnival wrote: »
    I just have to quote mr magiquepurse its rather hilarious in this thread....

    I am laughing too, at the tens of GWFs unable to reproduce the feats that the guys from the videos I've posted are performing. The BiS GWFs that melt to my R7s HR or my CW, while a real GWF 2 shots me.

    It is exactly as I said:

    You guys need to get good.

    I counted a grand total of one good PvP GWF in this topic, Dante.

    I am sure the developers are smart enough to WATCH THE VIDEOS.

    They are saying more than 1000 words. Hence, I will repost them.

    What a REAL PvP GWF can do:
    http://www.twitch.tv/dersidius/c/5292158

    See 12:00+ first, then 13:46 (31K hit followed by 20K), 20K non crit at 18:40, and there is a 46230 crit at 14:55!

    What a REAL PvE GWF can do:
    http://youtu.be/j61ZR6vZI1U
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Intimidation cheesball tactics and videos showing how low skill top level neverwinter pvp is. Cheers. Go play a real game

    I literally laughed my *** off. Thanks.
  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Bug: Storm Pillar

    Storm Pillar is STILL not critting correctly. It has been two and a half modules, and each time I've reported this. This skill was once broken before in Mod 1 in the exact same way and was fixed for the following mod (Dread Ring). And somewhere between then it has been broken and remained so ever since.

    To emphasis exactly whats broken with it.

    Normal (whats supposed to happen): The main Pillar crits, the smaller bolts are also crit when that does.

    Bug ( what happens now and the passed 3 modules): The main pillar crits, the smaller bolts do normal damage.
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    IBS animation needs an update, with all CC resist and latency, for many of us has become impossible to land it even if we managed to land a stun that is at 18 sec CD.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    I am laughing too, at the tens of GWFs unable to reproduce the feats that the guys from the videos I've posted are performing. The BiS GWFs that melt to my R7s HR or my CW, while a real GWF 2 shots me.

    It is exactly as I said:

    You guys need to get good.

    I counted a grand total of one good PvP GWF in this topic, Dante.

    I am sure the developers are smart enough to WATCH THE VIDEOS.

    They are saying more than 1000 words. Hence, I will repost them.

    What a REAL PvP GWF can do:
    http://www.twitch.tv/dersidius/c/5292158

    See 12:00+ first, then 13:46 (31K hit followed by 20K), 20K non crit at 18:40, and there is a 46230 crit at 14:55!

    What a REAL PvE GWF can do:
    http://youtu.be/j61ZR6vZI1U

    yep, you counted 1 pvp gwf in this topic and that is Dante, cause you are lickin his but , no particulary reason.
    what you posted there m8 it's just pure hatred on gwf class.
    intimidation was toned down to 35% from 50% , dunno why you still complaining?
    and that is huge m8

    if you really want to do someth and complain, complain about feracious reaction atm, cuz that will be an OP class feat in mod5 and it's bugged.
    oh and in instabul video , he doesnt hit 300k in 1 hit in that video, it's mostly 150k from daring shout and afterwards another 150k from come and get it, but it's taken as a chain damage and it's shown 300k more or less, but what would a CW/HR know about gwf?
    and it wasn't done in 8 min cause of the GWF, , because there is a good party in there, but what would a cw/hr know about such things when he targets a class as his enemy, and not bringin proof.
    either way, i will repeat again to you, dont worry about sentinel gwf in mod5, cause it wont be as reliable as it is now on LIVE, if they are makin some changes on instigator, everyone will pick instigator. so instead of posting old news about intimidation, why dont you go outside and play with the ball or do some pushups to remove some of that frustration that you are holding it in you.
    and for what i see in that premade, i see, steam roller died quite often for a class so OP , right no? oh an CS they even lost with that OP class , someth is wrong magiq, right?
    the problem with sentinel and DANTE (the guy you idolise so much) pointed is that Sentinel is the only paragon that does too much DPS for a tank paragon, without needing to build stacks, like destroyer and now instigator. So you tought he is on your side when he said nerf sentinel, no sir, and stop kissin other people where the sun never shines.
    there are other gwf , that pointed some good things also, but your logic magiq "fk them, let's troll this class , because our cws nerfs" maybe i should bring old videos of cws doint dracolich alone maybe magiq will turn a blind eye after seein that.
    either way , we wont go anywhere like this.

    FEEDBACK : instigator should be improved even more.
    -feracious reaction doesnt activate at all on instigator paragon, and hope you tested it out with gwf havin like 50k + hp
    -take from capstone buffs and increase our base damage by 20% damage bonus
    -i belive sentinel intimidation should take 50-75% out of defense as damage, and not power. to keep the paragon tanky. and there wont be crazy people stackin 10k defense on a gwf, maybe 5k at most. keep in mind stackin more defense will mean less power, and less power = less damage bonus. and that will keep people like magiq stable
    -make DS and CAGI , more responsive, or fix the animation on DS.
    -put SteadFast determination on instigator paragon and give him a benefic bonus.
    like having sloted steadfast determination : you get 25-50% DR while in unstopable.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?717311-GWF-vs-other-class&p=8525901#post8525901

    27 july , and they treated it like a troll build, and now they are using it.
    can you belive how inexperienced i am ? :o
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    yep, you counted 1 pvp gwf in this topic and that is Dante, cause you are lickin his but , no particulary reason.
    what you posted there m8 it's just pure hatred on gwf class.
    intimidation was toned down to 35% from 50% , dunno why you still complaining?
    and that is huge m8

    if you really want to do someth and complain, complain about feracious reaction atm, cuz that will be an OP class feat in mod5 and it's bugged.
    oh and in instabul video , he doesnt hit 300k in 1 hit in that video, it's mostly 150k from daring shout and afterwards another 150k from come and get it, but it's taken as a chain damage and it's shown 300k more or less, but what would a CW/HR know about gwf?
    and it wasn't done in 8 min cause of the GWF, , because there is a good party in there, but what would a cw/hr know about such things when he targets a class as his enemy, and not bringin proof.
    either way, i will repeat again to you, dont worry about sentinel gwf in mod5, cause it wont be as reliable as it is now on LIVE, if they are makin some changes on instigator, everyone will pick instigator. so instead of posting old news about intimidation, why dont you go outside and play with the ball or do some pushups to remove some of that frustration that you are holding it in you.
    and for what i see in that premade, i see, steam roller died quite often for a class so OP , right no? oh an CS they even lost with that OP class , someth is wrong magiq, right?
    the problem with sentinel and DANTE (the guy you idolise so much) pointed is that Sentinel is the only paragon that does too much DPS for a tank paragon, without needing to build stacks, like destroyer and now instigator. So you tought he is on your side when he said nerf sentinel, no sir, and stop kissin other people where the sun never shines.
    there are other gwf , that pointed some good things also, but your logic magiq "fk them, let's troll this class , because our cws nerfs" maybe i should bring old videos of cws doint dracolich alone maybe magiq will turn a blind eye after seein that.
    either way , we wont go anywhere like this.

    FEEDBACK : instigator should be improved even more.
    -feracious reaction doesnt activate at all on instigator paragon, and hope you tested it out with gwf havin like 50k + hp
    -take from capstone buffs and increase our base damage by 20% damage bonus
    -i belive sentinel intimidation should take 50-75% out of defense as damage, and not power. to keep the paragon tanky. and there wont be crazy people stackin 10k defense on a gwf, maybe 5k at most. keep in mind stackin more defense will mean less power, and less power = less damage bonus. and that will keep people like magiq stable
    -make DS and CAGI , more responsive, or fix the animation on DS.
    -put SteadFast determination on instigator paragon and give him a benefic bonus.
    like having sloted steadfast determination : you get 25-50% DR while in unstopable.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?717311-GWF-vs-other-class&p=8525901#post8525901

    27 july , and they treated it like a troll build, and now they are using it.
    can you belive how inexperienced i am ? :o

    Leave me alone :(
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Let's clear things up again.

    Stop asking nerfs on the CW. I will have the courtesy to not post GWF videos with real numbers and data. You might want to talk with zacazu and other unsatisfied PvE GWFs that ask CW damage to be halved.

    Don't do that, it pisses people off royally.

    I also posted the videos because many GWF QQ all day their class is weak.

    The videos are proof it is not.
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Let's clear things up again.

    Stop asking nerfs on the CW. I will have the courtesy to not post GWF videos with real numbers and data. You might want to talk with zacazu and other unsatisfied PvE GWFs that ask CW damage to be halved.

    Don't do that, it pisses people off royally.

    I also posted the videos because many GWF QQ all day their class is weak.

    The videos are proof it is not.

    once again the GWF is overall weak its just 1 broken feat in tank tree that performs way too good both come and get it and daring shout have more base damage than fully buffed with all stacks destroyer IBS.
  • mugiwaracmugiwarac Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    cw (renegade only, thaum is trash) is decent in pve. i would like to test cw in pvp, but there is nothing to test. cw does not exist in pvp and cannot exist unless you multiply all single target damage by at least 3. there is no cw to test on preview right now.
    King Goponov - GWF
    Eleanor - CW (retired after Assailing nerf)

    - Brazil PvP Fraternité -
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    What thread-hijacker magiquepurse says can be safely ignored.

    Problem with gwf is not that the class is way below CW or SW or anything. It is below, but the main concern is GWF is intrinsically bad. Even if there was only GWF as a class in the game, it would be a bad choice.
    Take Skyrim game by Bethesda editor, you can play a pure mage if you wishes so. You'll have much less DPS and survivability than a stealthed archer or even a 2H weapon brute, but you'll still have much fun with the game and will be able to complete the quests, and more important you'll be able to play your char in a very straightforward way, that is your mage will be a mage. He will wear a mage robe and he will cast spells. He won't need to be wearing a plate mail to survive the fights. It won't be necessary for you to use a exploit build just to get a half-decent char.
    But if you play a gwf in this game in a straightforward way, you fail. In this game you need to use the exploit Intimidation build, or to spend 100 MegaAD to build a 25k+ gwf which will barely be on-par with other classes in f2p builds, but more important will barely be on-par with the game.
  • dante126pldante126pl Banned Users Posts: 257 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    lewel555 wrote: »
    What thread-hijacker magiquepurse says can be safely ignored.

    Problem with gwf is not that the class is way below CW or SW or anything. It is below, but the main concern is GWF is intrinsically bad. Even if there was only GWF as a class in the game, it would be a bad choice.
    Take Skyrim game by Bethesda editor, you can play a pure mage if you wishes so. You'll have much less DPS and survivability than a stealthed archer or even a 2H weapon brute, but you'll still have much fun with the game and will be able to complete the quests, and more important you'll be able to play your char in a very straightforward way, that is your mage will be a mage. He will wear a mage robe and he will cast spells. He won't need to be wearing a plate mail to survive the fights. It won't be necessary for you to use a exploit build just to get a half-decent char.
    But if you play a gwf in this game in a straightforward way, you fail. In this game you need to use the exploit Intimidation build, or to spend 100 MegaAD to build a 25k+ gwf which will barely be on-par with other classes in f2p builds, but more important will barely be on-par with the game.

    GWF right now need an buff around 30% to hes base dmg and unstoppable gain/DR back in the current state (im not counting broken intimidation) gwf is really weak compared to other classes.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    sir, sir... Let's recap things

    you dont hurt my fealings posting this video. this is a sentinel t3 feet. This is a basic rotation. tr for the "fixed" aoe mark (t2 feet bonus) and intimidation rotation (t3 feet bonus). Yes, "rework".

    Now:

    "Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%)."


    your proof about a gwf quality - and false cw equality - receive this nerf. this is a PREVIEW, PREVIEW THREAD. maybe still fine for pvp, maybe sentinel still the best damage tree for gwf, but receive a nerf. more fast than any cw broken power. imbalance is not imbalance?

    now the point. ok, a traction move - or a scream - give more damage than a sword attack is ridiculous (and emblematic...) sentinel is the tank tree, etc; but is your "alibi" about equality. or not? iam wrong?

    that as change without negotiation, no pvp adjust, no justify. the gwf buff for instigator is a failed formula of destroyer. You compared destroyers to trappers. Not me, you.

    now tell me this. this sounds fair? close your eyes and say "mimim, learn to play, look this video" is not honest. you know that. but again, my problem is no more cw. i want a honest response for combat designer. why this now?

    ps:"So you tought he is on your side when he said nerf sentinel, no sir, and stop kissin other people where the sun never shines."

    iam batman.
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Control Wizard - Suggestions:

    Arcane Presence: add aura effect that reduces the resistance against control on all enemies.

    Chilling Presence: add aura effect that increases chance of freezing enemies.

    Ice Storm: reduce the casting time and change the prone for an instant freeze.

    Arcane Singularity: add prone status in all sucked targets.

    Oppressive Force: increase casting time and make all targets being sucked into the center before the explosion.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    dante126pl wrote: »
    once again the GWF is overall weak its just 1 broken feat in tank tree that performs way too good both come and get it and daring shout have more base damage than fully buffed with all stacks destroyer IBS.

    CW is on the same state for pvp (or even worst in high lvl PVP) with only one feat (eye of storm ) that permit to start with 6 second 100% critic. So CW start with a sliglty higher damage than other class. it give as result than on low HP player CW give sligtly better result. how ever the more you goes in pvp spec build the less CW are efficent
    I personnaly already made a RIP on PVP. How ever What i don't get is why many GWF player come here to ask destroy CW (check many post. it completly non sense).
    They act like ok if i don't give this kind of food to my cat he is hill: solution: kill my neighbour's cat

    + but it's my pesonnal view, i doN,t think destoyer is broken for PVE. it's just for PVP and since the way pvp actually work it just natural since actual PVP give priority for highest defense. it more or less the same for each class that have a parangon path mith more defensive bonus or system.

    How ever the main real problem in PVP is not CW,GWF or any class, it is the entrance required lvl that goes higher and higher because module after module GS goes higher and higher making gap between newcomer / medium lvl / high lvl / PVe and pvp character. it lead to a defection on pvp from lower character. which lead to only make higher lvl enter on it, making enter price higher. i'm pretty sure that there is less than half player doing PVP with regularity than on previous module. It also give problem for player to get a hand on pvp set that increase further more the GAP.

    So on my view The actual PVP is Dying slowly and using any argument like this class is op kill this class (what ever you blame CW, GWF ,DC, TR,HR,GF,SW) it won't change the fact that PVP is dying due to an over unbreakable gap between fresh newcomer and end GS PVP player. It make same player always and always
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    zacazu wrote: »
    sir, sir... Let's recap things

    you dont hurt my fealings posting this video. this is a sentinel t3 feet. This is a basic rotation. tr for the "fixed" aoe mark (t2 feet bonus) and intimidation rotation (t3 feet bonus). Yes, "rework".

    Now:

    "Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%)."


    your proof about a gwf quality - and false cw equality - receive this nerf. this is a PREVIEW, PREVIEW THREAD. maybe still fine for pvp, maybe sentinel still the best damage tree for gwf, but receive a nerf. more fast than any cw broken power. imbalance is not imbalance?

    You really don't pay attention to what goes on with wizards do you.

    Assailant got nerfed really fast. When tyranny came out it did umitigated damage like piercing blade, now against players it can be mitigated and had its damage cut in half. That came real fast.

    The stuns were too long so they made you immune to chillstacks for 3 seconds after getting frozen which effectively means forever in a 1v1 because wizards have to dodge and ray of frost has a longish windup.

    Mod 2 gwf bleeds were cool for months and how long has piercing blade been around? Maybe you should keep your broken English to yourself if you literally don't know what you're talking about.

    The issues people have with intimidation isn't that it does damage. The difference between sentinel and destroyer is supposed to be tank or damage. Now we have ultra tanky sents doing great damage. That's an issue. Destoyer being weak and unfun to play is an entirely different problem. The less significant issue is its a proc. You don't have to do anything it just kind of happens. Maybe its a where's the skill thing or maybe its a well it has nothing to do with my actions as a player but whatever.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    You really don't pay attention to what goes on with wizards do you.

    Assailant got nerfed really fast. When tyranny came out it did umitigated damage like piercing blade, now against players it can be mitigated and had its damage cut in half. That came real fast.

    The stuns were too long so they made you immune to chillstacks for 3 seconds after getting frozen which effectively means forever in a 1v1 because wizards have to dodge and ray of frost has a longish windup.

    Mod 2 gwf bleeds were cool for months and how long has piercing blade been around? Maybe you should keep your broken English to yourself if you literally don't know what you're talking about.

    The issues people have with intimidation isn't that it does damage. The difference between sentinel and destroyer is supposed to be tank or damage. Now we have ultra tanky sents doing great damage. That's an issue. Destoyer being weak and unfun to play is an entirely different problem. The less significant issue is its a proc. You don't have to do anything it just kind of happens. Maybe its a where's the skill thing or maybe its a well it has nothing to do with my actions as a player but whatever.

    Nonsense. You either tank good with sentinel OR you deal damage good. You can't do both. Especially after the 30% nerf on intimidation.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    You really don't pay attention to what goes on with wizards do you.

    Assailant got nerfed really fast. When tyranny came out it did umitigated damage like piercing blade, now against players it can be mitigated and had its damage cut in half. That came real fast.

    The stuns were too long so they made you immune to chillstacks for 3 seconds after getting frozen which effectively means forever in a 1v1 because wizards have to dodge and ray of frost has a longish windup.

    Mod 2 gwf bleeds were cool for months and how long has piercing blade been around? Maybe you should keep your broken English to yourself if you literally don't know what you're talking about.

    The issues people have with intimidation isn't that it does damage. The difference between sentinel and destroyer is supposed to be tank or damage. Now we have ultra tanky sents doing great damage. That's an issue. Destoyer being weak and unfun to play is an entirely different problem. The less significant issue is its a proc. You don't have to do anything it just kind of happens. Maybe its a where's the skill thing or maybe its a well it has nothing to do with my actions as a player but whatever.

    1 - calm down, little man. knowing English is not a virtue. destroy one by one the mimimi arguments using a language I do not know, yes.

    2 - Assailant is not the best cw damage resourse. (iam speak about pve; 100% of time). nerf is nerf, but calm down.

    3 - lets speak about bleed. ( can not understand a "deliberate exaggeration" and speak about the English of others ...) cw is broken in your heroic feets by 3 MODULES (fixed in m4). bleed for 1 module (and the formula back for intimidation, so...).

    4 - the change in chill - plus the change in passive skills - was a ridiculous buff , make cw better in a area wherein the class was always dominant. back again to bleed, gwf received a damage buff ... the class dont have damage in m1 (in this time, you need destroy your fingers using cancelation to be a little competitive). see the difference? gwf receive a buff because... play this class cause PAIN (at least for me; short fingers).

    5 - The issues people have with intimidation isn't that it does damage. The difference between sentinel and destroyer is supposed to be tank or damage. Now we have ultra tanky sents doing great damage. That's an issue. Destoyer being weak and unfun to play is an entirely different problem. The less significant issue is its a proc. You don't have to do anything it just kind of happens. Maybe its a where's the skill thing or maybe its a well it has nothing to do with my actions as a player but whatever.


    i agree! I'm not defending the sentinel itself. that's what people need to understand (and hell, how dumb are for it) is:

    the gwf is unbalanced? nerf. the gwf has at least one strong skill? nerf. gwf become competitive? nerf. ibs still have a good damage is a miracle!

    By coincidence, in the overwhelming majority requests come to cw playerbase . I've seen nerfs requests for steel blitz.

    now, cw cause imbalance since the beginning of the game. continues to cause. why? the point here, my lord, my good lord, is not nerf cw or buff gwf. this is a detail. the big point is: why the feedback of the public target of the class x is not listening, but the target public of a class y is listening to change my own class? not specific, of course (that is other problem) but in scale. this is not a BALANCE thread?
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    You really don't pay attention to what goes on with wizards do you.

    Assailant got nerfed really fast. When tyranny came out it did umitigated damage like piercing blade, now against players it can be mitigated and had its damage cut in half. That came real fast.

    The stuns were too long so they made you immune to chillstacks for 3 seconds after getting frozen which effectively means forever in a 1v1 because wizards have to dodge and ray of frost has a longish windup.

    Mod 2 gwf bleeds were cool for months and how long has piercing blade been around? Maybe you should keep your broken English to yourself if you literally don't know what you're talking about.

    The issues people have with intimidation isn't that it does damage. The difference between sentinel and destroyer is supposed to be tank or damage. Now we have ultra tanky sents doing great damage. That's an issue. Destoyer being weak and unfun to play is an entirely different problem. The less significant issue is its a proc. You don't have to do anything it just kind of happens. Maybe its a where's the skill thing or maybe its a well it has nothing to do with my actions as a player but whatever.

    so what you say : if Intimidation does 50% out of your maximum Defense as Damage, instead of Power.
    cause for what we know for now 50% out of 10k power = 5000 damage and this damage multiplies by damage bonus/crit severity
    so what about 50% out of defense? as we know gwf put only radiants on defense slots for more hp.
    so lets say 5k defense = 2500 damage and it multiplies with less damage bonus , cause less power, this way sentinel will remain the tank paragon , without needing to stack alot of power for intimidation, and it will not deal alot of damage burst damage anymore.
    but to compesate this lack of damage, lets shorten the cooldowns on daring shout and come and get it.

    with 0 stats (no recovery or INT)
    restoring strike - 12s
    ibs - 14s
    Cagi - 15s
    daring shout - 18s


    and with 1300 recovery + 2 int
    restoring strike - 10.5
    ibs - 12.3
    cagi 13.1
    daring shout - 15.8


    so intimidation won't depend on power anymore, but on defense.
    the 50%(or 80%)out of max defense will multiply with less damage bonus /same crit severity.
    not to mention all attacks will deal less damage: atwills, 3rd encounter and daily , because less power.

    to help it out what we can do? is to decrease the cooldowns on cagi and daring shout.
    cagi from 15s to 11-12 seconds- more responsive.
    daring shout from 18s to 13s -with better animation.

    i think this is the best for sentinel paragon. maybe some adjustments, that way there wont be problems.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    so what you say : if Intimidation does 50% out of your maximum Defense as Damage, instead of Power.
    cause for what we know for now 50% out of 10k power = 5000 damage and this damage multiplies by damage bonus/crit severity
    so what about 50% out of defense? as we know gwf put only radiants on defense slots for more hp.
    so lets say 5k defense = 2500 damage and it multiplies with less damage bonus , cause less power, this way sentinel will remain the tank paragon , without needing to stack alot of power for intimidation, and it will not deal alot of damage burst damage anymore.
    but to compesate this lack of damage, lets shorten the cooldowns on daring shout and come and get it.

    with 0 stats (no recovery or INT)
    restoring strike - 12s
    ibs - 14s
    Cagi - 15s
    daring shout - 18s


    and with 1300 recovery + 2 int
    restoring strike - 10.5
    ibs - 12.3
    cagi 13.1
    daring shout - 15.8


    so intimidation won't depend on power anymore, but on defense.
    the 50%(or 80%)out of max defense will multiply with less damage bonus /same crit severity.
    not to mention all attacks will deal less damage: atwills, 3rd encounter and daily , because less power.

    to help it out what we can do? is to decrease the cooldowns on cagi and daring shout.
    cagi from 15s to 11-12 seconds- more responsive.
    daring shout from 18s to 13s -with better animation.

    i think this is the best for sentinel paragon. maybe some adjustments, that way there wont be problems.

    I agree. I'd also add higher threat generation. Even with current intimidation I have a hard time keeping threat on mobs. Sure, I could do it if used dps set and enchants... But what sort of an off-tank would I be with 2k def and 20-25k hp? :)

    Also, I wrote a question on QA thread for the class balance stream about why devs based intimidation damage on offensive stat (power) instead of a defensive stat. As well as why GWFs have the highest weapon damage but lowest at-will damage in game and etc. Ofc, it was ignored. *sigh*
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    zacazu wrote: »
    1 - calm down, little man. knowing English is not a virtue. destroy one by one the mimimi arguments using a language I do not know, yes.

    2 - Assailant is not the best cw damage resourse. (iam speak about pve; 100% of time). nerf is nerf, but calm down.

    3 - lets speak about bleed. ( can not understand a "deliberate exaggeration" and speak about the English of others ...) cw is broken in your heroic feets by 3 MODULES (fixed in m4). bleed for 1 module (and the formula back for intimidation, so...).

    4 - the change in chill - plus the change in passive skills - was a ridiculous buff , make cw better in a area wherein the class was always dominant. back again to bleed, gwf received a damage buff ... the class dont have damage in m1 (in this time, you need destroy your fingers using cancelation to be a little competitive). see the difference? gwf receive a buff because... play this class cause PAIN (at least for me; short fingers).

    5 - The issues people have with intimidation isn't that it does damage. The difference between sentinel and destroyer is supposed to be tank or damage. Now we have ultra tanky sents doing great damage. That's an issue. Destoyer being weak and unfun to play is an entirely different problem. The less significant issue is its a proc. You don't have to do anything it just kind of happens. Maybe its a where's the skill thing or maybe its a well it has nothing to do with my actions as a player but whatever.


    i agree! I'm not defending the sentinel itself. that's what people need to understand (and hell, how dumb are for it) is:

    the gwf is unbalanced? nerf. the gwf has at least one strong skill? nerf. gwf become competitive? nerf. ibs still have a good damage is a miracle!

    By coincidence, in the overwhelming majority requests come to cw playerbase . I've seen nerfs requests for steel blitz.

    now, cw cause imbalance since the beginning of the game. continues to cause. why? the point here, my lord, my good lord, is not nerf cw or buff gwf. this is a detail. the big point is: why the feedback of the public target of the class x is not listening, but the target public of a class y is listening to change my own class? not specific, of course (that is other problem) but in scale. this is not a BALANCE thread?

    You explicitly said that cw nerfs never come quickly. I pointed out specific recent nerfs and how much faster they were nerfed compared to nerfs to gwfs or hrs.

    Destroyer being bad isn't a reason for cw to be bad. Its a case for making destroyer better. And everyone cw players included didn't want the damage to be as smashed as it was. That one isn't on us, that's on the devs.

    My main character, the one with all the tyranny boons which no other character will likely see is a wizard. There isn't a lot for him to do in the game. PvE is dead. I've soloed Castle Never and Epic LoL is like some kind of joke and the only thing coming in the future is a scrub zerg. What's left is to log in to help new players in the guild get geared and pvp occasionally. My guild comes from a community outside the game so we always have new blood. Anyway the part of the game that's left for me is PvP and calling for big damage nerfs on a weak pvp class that's only getting weaker isn't cool to me. It makes me more likely to log in to do the prayers and log out to play actually good pvp games. And that's annoying considering the time and effort put into Neverwinter. That's likely the case for any high geared wizard.

    Oh and none of the proposed changes are going to nerf pve stormspell wizards. They are just going to make us punching bags in pvp if we can't burst people down in six seconds, ie not going to happen against anyone at the same gear level.

    Oh and our feats got in general worse. If we had the mod 2 feats the damage would be much bigger.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    I agree. I'd also add higher threat generation. Even with current intimidation I have a hard time keeping threat on mobs. Sure, I could do it if used dps set and enchants... But what sort of an off-tank would I be with 2k def and 20-25k hp? :)

    Also, I wrote a question on QA thread for the class balance stream about why devs based intimidation damage on offensive stat (power) instead of a defensive stat. As well as why GWFs have the highest weapon damage but lowest at-will damage in game and etc. Ofc, it was ignored. *sigh*

    so lets say you use Daring Shout and come and get it, you do aggro, but you cannot mantain the threat because of other classes in your party do alot of dps, that is indeed true, but if you have faster cooldowns on both encounters, it will help you to get back the aggro you've lost.
    so yes, i think this is the best choice in makin sentinel better both pvp/pve.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    You explicitly said that cw nerfs never come quickly. I pointed out specific recent nerfs and how much faster they were nerfed compared to nerfs to gwfs or hrs.

    Destroyer being bad isn't a reason for cw to be bad. Its a case for making destroyer better. And everyone cw players included didn't want the damage to be as smashed as it was. That one isn't on us, that's on the devs.

    My main character, the one with all the tyranny boons which no other character will likely see is a wizard. There isn't a lot for him to do in the game. PvE is dead. I've soloed Castle Never and Epic LoL is like some kind of joke and the only thing coming in the future is a scrub zerg. What's left is to log in to help new players in the guild get geared and pvp occasionally. My guild comes from a community outside the game so we always have new blood. Anyway the part of the game that's left for me is PvP and calling for big damage nerfs on a weak pvp class that's only getting weaker isn't cool to me. It makes me more likely to log in to do the prayers and log out to play actually good pvp games. And that's annoying considering the time and effort put into Neverwinter. That's likely the case for any high geared wizard.

    Oh and none of the proposed changes are going to nerf pve stormspell wizards. They are just going to make us punching bags in pvp if we can't burst people down in six seconds, ie not going to happen against anyone at the same gear level.

    Oh and our feats got in general worse. If we had the mod 2 feats the damage would be much bigger.


    you can search the forums how many times I used the word "hyperbole" for example (this is not the case, but it is a clue). BUT this generalization is a single sentence in my speech AND dont change the point.

    now lets see the interest thing. :rolleyes:


    something quite common in the speech of some people who "advocate for cw" currently is:

    1 - pve is broken (yes) and therefore does not make any difference buff x or nerf y.

    Then the sincerest opinion of equilibrium for gwf is (poetic license here):

    2 - gwf should be sufficiently limited (and I powerful enough) to beat the opponent without problems, regardless of this imbalance is causing the rest of the game.

    I'm not sure?

    the rest I agree with you. just have 2 notes:

    1 - I never created a thread against a particular class.

    2 - I never post in "cw preview" or "x preview" a single word against certain buff, or buff idea (i dont remember, at least).

    I only comment, 99% of the time when the matter involves gwf, always referring to the other so ironic or comparative (or both).

    this is a common thread (general changes), so... dont take it personally. when I talk about certain players (and you know they exist) dont take it personally.
This discussion has been closed.