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Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes

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  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    well they are practical , even better than practical.
    1. RI% = 2k armor + 28 con = 38% maybe he can get up to 45% with pots/glyphs= this in on GWF.
    i was not sayin that every sentinel should unslot his RADIANTS for AZURE cause that would be stupid givin up on HP for Defense, i was just sayin this will oblige sentinels to remain on 4k-5k defense in pvp. and would make sense .

    and yes HP for pvp is great and that would remain for all classes, not only for GWF.
    new mproved ferocious reaction only activates when u are at 15% hp, and if you tried it out with the new offhand ferocious reaction boost, that is bugged my friend.

    and yes, i agree again HP is far better tahn defense and sloting radiants in pvp is the only chocie. and i didnt even said they need to change radiants/azure to make what i said about sentinel being viable for pvp

    mate . 50% out of Defense it's the best choice of balancing sentinel out. 4k = 2000 damage , 5k = 2500 damage, setting a cap is a bit radical, with shorten cooldowns to compensate !!!
    so that he wont make 20k in one shot, he can do 7k-14k at most. with fast recharging.

    so i repeat again so that you will learn what i am sayin,
    right now there are gwf that stacked alot of power goin like crazy on a tank paragon 1 shotting players out.
    and they have like 11k power with 2k defense, and they are SENTINELS.
    thats a little too much dont you think mate?

    how c-ome a tank class do huge burst of 20l-30k on one encounter?

    if crush reads what i said and implement it out, and let us test out what i said, you will see that would be very balancing and will keep GWF all 3 paragons on a good track !

    so how i see it, like you already said it, this huge stats creep will make GWF sentinel to use it on defense.

    like it is now gwf sentinel on live server , it's half - a sed imo , what i said would make him balanced.

    LE: there isn't anycrazy damage on ferocious reaction .
    it gives 25% at rank 1 as healing and damage out of your max hp when you are at 15% hp, it activates 1 time at 3 min.
    goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
    so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?

    givin 3AC = 1.5% damage resistance. how will that help out the instigator path? 1.5% daamage resistance > 10% deflect while sprinting, is that how you see this?

    imo we shouldn't fk up the mechanic the GWF has.
    READ AGAIN what i said, people like dante or other pvp gwf would agree with me.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    2. destroyer does huge damage with full stacks, but lacks surviability.

    destroyer doesnt do huge damage, its ok dmg at best for a squishy melee dps class with close to no utility

    if u compare destro damage the only other classes that fall in to the same category are HR and SW, maybe tr but tr is single target focused while GWF, SW and HR are both aoe and single target
    Paladin Master Race
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    burkaanc wrote: »
    destroyer doesnt do huge damage, its ok dmg at best for a squishy melee dps class with close to no utility

    if u compare destro damage the only other classes that fall in to the same category are HR and SW, maybe tr but tr is single target focused while GWF, SW and HR are both aoe and single target

    reason why GWF destroyer doesnt outdps SW/CW and newly hybrid 13k+power with cagi/daring shout is that he doesnt DPS them OVERALL, because he needs to build stacks. but with full stacks he hits like a TRUCK.
    same with GWF pvp destroyer on LIVE. i know a PVP GWF that hitted 34k with IBS and not scrubs.

    READ AGAIN WHAT I POSTED. and what are the demands of what i said. cause there are a chain of posts, and dont pick up the conversation at the end.
    if you say destroyer doesnt do huge damage, then lets give 100% damage bonus to its cap, makin you happy .

    "destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB"

    and btw, i dont try to make the class useless or OVERPOWERED , only balanced.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    if the increase to base dmg doesnt affect stacks then at full stacks dmg would be ok, though imho base should be increased by more and stacks reduced to some 20% from capstone, the insane dmg numbers on capstone(40% and 50%) shows gwf dmg needs to be increased

    but as it is now the damage at full stacks isnt as impressive
    Paladin Master Race
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    burkaanc wrote: »
    if the increase to base dmg doesnt affect stacks then at full stacks dmg would be ok, though imho base should be increased by more and stacks reduced to some 20% from capstone, the insane dmg numbers on capstone(40% and 50%) shows gwf dmg needs to be increased

    but as it is now the damage at full stacks isnt as impressive

    for me hittin 240k crit with ibs and 150k crit with restoring strike in PVe content having indeed a GF or a DC in a party it's pretty much alot of damage.

    adjusting it out on base damage by 20% would only help gwf destroyer to do significant damage. helpin him out with the overall damage.
    as a PaingGiver i dont mind being on 2nd place, we dont need to be only on 1st place,. and yes in epic lol SW outdps, because they are a newly class to this game, but they will get nerfs, they dont have the 2nd path yet on live. so i dont mind them yet.
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    well they are practical , even better than practical.
    1. RI% = 2k armor + 28 con = 38% maybe he can get up to 45% with pots/glyphs= this in on GWF.
    i was not sayin that every sentinel should unslot his RADIANTS for AZURE cause that would be stupid givin up on HP for Defense, i was just sayin this will oblige sentinels to remain on 4k-5k defense in pvp. and would make sense .

    and yes HP for pvp is great and that would remain for all classes, not only for GWF.
    new mproved ferocious reaction only activates when u are at 15% hp, and if you tried it out with the new offhand ferocious reaction boost, that is bugged my friend.

    and yes, i agree again HP is far better tahn defense and sloting radiants in pvp is the only chocie. and i didnt even said they need to change radiants/azure to make what i said about sentinel being viable for pvp

    mate . 50% out of Defense it's the best choice of balancing sentinel out. 4k = 2000 damage , 5k = 2500 damage, setting a cap is a bit radical, with shorten cooldowns to compensate !!!
    so that he wont make 20k in one shot, he can do 7k-14k at most. with fast recharging.

    so i repeat again so that you will learn what i am sayin,
    right now there are gwf that stacked alot of power goin like crazy on a tank paragon 1 shotting players out.
    and they have like 11k power with 2k defense, and they are SENTINELS.
    thats a little too much dont you think mate?

    how c-ome a tank class do huge burst of 20l-30k on one encounter?

    if crush reads what i said and implement it out, and let us test out what i said, you will see that would be very balancing and will keep GWF all 3 paragons on a good track !

    so how i see it, like you already said it, this huge stats creep will make GWF sentinel to use it on defense.

    like it is now gwf sentinel on live server , it's half - a sed imo , what i said would make him balanced.

    LE: there isn't anycrazy damage on ferocious reaction .
    it gives 25% at rank 1 as healing and damage out of your max hp when you are at 15% hp, it activates 1 time at 3 min.
    goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
    so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?

    givin 3AC = 1.5% damage resistance. how will that help out the instigator path? 1.5% daamage resistance > 10% deflect while sprinting, is that how you see this?

    imo we shouldn't fk up the mechanic the GWF has.
    READ AGAIN what i said, people like dante or other pvp gwf would agree with me.

    1. Ideally you build 36-38% RI. Or at-least this is the way I see it. People will go glass cannon, pugs in PvP, range classes. It doesn't make sense to go above 38% RI. Agreed? So the 3 AC , full purified set, defense ring will give instigator a little more tank. Also not everyone in the team will have a 20k GS. Practically you will meet 17-18k GS even in premade. Also 10% deflect while running? who cares! Punishing charge? Useless. GWF get CC before sprinting or before deploying an encounter. If you are going higher RI you are sacking Crit Rate or Power. Sounds good to me! So yes on instigator path 3 AC > 10% deflect while sprinting, I would take that plus your suggestion, prone on mighty leap. Mighty Leap (prone) >IBS > TD whacking Sure Strike , chase with TR, the extra pace from 1st column on high stamina regen , then mighty leap again. Nice!

    Instead of Destro's hit & run you now have harass & chase. Keep the destro for PvE, if you like.

    2. 10k power= glass cannon sentinel, all offense rings, necklace, offense slots on 2 corrupted piece 38-42k hp. This looks like a tank to you? If you get CC before sprinting you are dead! It's basically a kami-kaze unit - kill or be killed. Team vs team, they are like paper.

    Now, the problem is, sneaking one of these into a 14k power, right? bubble up the CAGI and DS, boom! Well have you noticed something, 14k power roll, don't go alone on premade - they have a DC supporting them. My logic to that is, DS is a 20' attack. If a bunch of CW / HR / SW are standing that close to each other, something sounds off in their game play! On top of that FLS is a high risk shot, easily dodge. Miss the stun, CAGI. CAGI > DS without stun ? good opponents ... don't think so! High risk, high cd - high rewards. Kill or be killed, plus because of rolling with a DC there is that fact of the DC not posting the damage. It's a high risk build, requires good sync between DC and GWF together, always and deserves it's reward. PvP currently is all about burst, and there are new(er) toys coming. If you are not doing the burst, someone else is. That's how PvP currently works.

    But the key is to somehow make the sentinel put on purified, so it's a tank with intended use and gives reasonable dps.

    3. Goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
    so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?


    Wrong. Might as well go 55k hp, why 50k Test it, and I said instigator path. See what other damage is stacking on it. 50% bonus damage and put opponent on marked. What results do you see?
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    to respond to you nezzral
    1.i was suggestin Mighty leap as a prone for PVE mostly dunno how will go out in a pvp.

    2. yes , thats why i was sayn the changes on intimidation its exactly for this reason. even if you think defense it's useless , but at least it will remain a TANK stats for a TANK paragon . thats exactly first reason. it shouldn't be a tank paragon a glasscannon and do better burst than offensive paragons. thats not good. and the only way to fix it and make it viable is the way i am sayin without breakin the mechanic or makin this build useless.

    3 [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Fey Thistle.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 987 (1010) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 31 (60) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 9100 (14107) Cold Damage to you with Ice Knife.
    [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 387 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 1050 (2035) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5931 (11486) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Ferocious Reaction.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 11234 (11486) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.

    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Must have a target.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 2386 (2310) Hit Points to you.

    so is there any huge DPS that i dont know about?
    this 11k damage 1 at 3 mins it's nothing in a pvp 1vs1.
    this is a newly and freshed combat log.

    BTW: in pvp for instigator / destro encounters are this:
    Takedown/Frontline surge and IBS
    reason is that stun is influenced by other things other the control resist .
    so on preview playin instigator i have the same rotation as for destroyer.

    using the runner build as destroyer its out of the question for me.
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    That's not quite the result what one of my friends got yesterday. But I haven't seen the results myself and his results are different. Perhaps I misunderstood what he said. Need to re-confirm when I get home. I was under the impression also, Marked Target + Instigator's Vengence (50% damage boost) would have an effect. This is results in instigator, correct?

    Can you double check with a friend in IWD, post his DR% and your RI%? Not at home at the moment. Would be of great help! At least, we are having a civil conversation 99% of people in the forum have no clue.

    TD / FLS / IBS is fine but reflects better on Destro in my opinon, even if you don't use BF. 5/5 in exec and 5/5 in recovery (5s td ^). I would even opt to go TD (5s CD) > IBS > RS (RS is auto-target, doesn't need a stun to execute).

    Now Migthty Leap (prone) > IBS > TD / FLS / RS , even boosted NSF + Sure Strike(s) with trample the fallen + 3 AC, looks attractive. Maybe Mighty Leap (prone), NSF (build determination) IBS ... hybrid between an "intended" Sentinel and Destroyer.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    nezraal wrote: »
    That's not quite the result what one of my friends got yesterday. But I haven't seen the results myself and his results are different. Perhaps I misunderstood what he said. Need to re-confirm when I get home. I was under the impression also, Marked Target + Instigator's Vengence (50% damage boost) would have an effect. This is results in instigator, correct?

    Can you double check with a friend in IWD, post his DR% and your RI%? Not at home at the moment. Would be of great help!

    dont know what your friend was sayin and all, this was tested against a potted CW with 47khp .
    i randomly killed him. my hp is 45.943. so yeah m8.
    i heard someth of 82k but on a GF . someth about DOTS and knightvalor.
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Okay , thanks for confirming. Appreciate the feedback. Good conversation and good talking to you. If you want to test things on preview my handle is nezraal. Feel free to add me.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    a pvp build on instigator will have around 30% critical chance, slotting weapon master you get another 10%, boosting up from offhand hand you get 5% more + 5% crit offered by CBA , you have 50% critical chance. so indeed ferocious reaction is good now on preview cause it's bugged, by not worth it, losing that 50% crit chance.

    that bugged ferocious reaction from offhand makes gwf keep on par with HR selfhealing, you can fight a HR , for minutes without even beating him or him to kill you. thats pretty crazy right.
    so we need a bugged offhand to fight against a HR?

    now seriously... that self healing from hr is too much in this game, to much lifestealing.
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Well at least we are getting it into attention of devs. So the outcome was good and our debate was constructive. Devs please follow the last few posts and confirm the test results for Ferocious reaction on Instigator as effectenstein tested.Bug, intended feat, reward for having a useless advocate who don't play GWF, wasting 3 mins playing neverwinter and being a cw punch bag - what is it ?

    Oh yes, HR and life steal. Destroyer has no chance to be honest. A second close is Destroyer vs TR. I agree 100%. I am assuming more changes to come to these classes or some boost in Destro feat. Love playing the tree but needs gas pvp wise, BIG TIME!
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    no, i belive boosting someth for that reason is wrong. they need to remove a portion of selfhealing from HR. that makes the pvp unbalanced. thats why everyone wants to DPS more , for this reason , to overcome his selfhealing.
    from lifesteal we get 10% at max, he gets around 30%-40% , thats not cool. why adding damage to overcome his selfhealing abilities? just nerf his self healing, cause it's unbalancing the game.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    no, i belive boosting someth for that reason is wrong. they need to remove a portion of selfhealing from HR. that makes the pvp unbalanced. thats why everyone wants to DPS more , for this reason , to overcome his selfhealing.
    from lifesteal we get 10% at max, he gets around 30%-40% , thats not cool. why adding damage to overcome his selfhealing abilities? just nerf his self healing, cause it's unbalancing the game.

    some ppl dont give a rats rear end about pvp and want more dps for pve :D
    Paladin Master Race
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    burkaanc wrote: »
    some ppl dont give a rats rear end about pvp and want more dps for pve :D

    i know you want more dps, i got that feeling from reading your first sentence.
    but lets just let "big boys" do the work, and if we dont have anything good to say we shouldn't say it.

    le: NVM, you cannot be talked out of this.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    i know you want more dps, i got that feeling from reading your first sentence.
    but lets just let "big boys" do the work, and if we dont have anything good to say we shouldn't say it.

    giving destro more dmg wouldnt fk up PvP since the only good build GWF has for pvp is the boring sent
    Paladin Master Race
  • ikapamkikapamk Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 294 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Soooo...

    How 'bout that HR, huh?

    The changes look to make trapper a mite bit more viable, which is a welcome change, not that anyone noticed it above the CW vs GWF vs everybody else griefing going on.
    Carpe Jugulum
    Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
    Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
    Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
  • deepflight007deepflight007 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    To: Chris “Gentleman_Crush” Meyer

    Feedback: Control Wizard Storm Spell and Assailant Changes

    The changes on Storm Spell (Moving to 30% proc, from 20%, **but** only on crits) and Assailant (To be activated only on Encounters) have a general impact on damage reduction close to 15% overall.

    To measure the proposed changes, I made the exact same identical Test (on Dummies at Dread Ring) on the Live server (Mod4) and on the Preview one (Mod 5). My Control Wizard is Spellstorm Mage using Storm Spell and EoTS with Power=8676, CS=2133, No Buffs during Test, and using a Perfect Lightning as Weapon Enchantment. These parameters didn't really influence the overall result trends, but you have them fyi.

    Test is composed of : 10 x Fully Charged Storm Pillar, then 10 x Conduit of Ice (Tab), then 10 x Icy Terrain, then 10 x Sudden Storm and 10 x Steal Time.

    This Test is to try to replicate some type of PVE condition using this rotation.

    See below the ACT results for better understanding.

    Some facts/remarks:
    • Damage contribution from Assailant is, of course, hugely impacted (From 1.126K to 795K around -29%) as it procs only on Encounters, so never from Storm Pillar anymore. It even seems that the procs are less generated on Encounters compared to Mod 4.
    • Damage contribution from Storm Spell is also reduced (From 652K to 569K around -13%). Which means that the new positive factors (30% proc instead of 20%, and on Crits - so dmg is always based on crits) are clearly not enough to balance the restriction that it procs only on crits
    • This test is not 100% representative of a Dungeon run, but at least the trends are here and it was my objective to try to clarify the changes impact

    My overall feelings/suggestions are:
    • If the proposed changes have as main objective to reduce the contribution of the CWs "passive" Skills (auto procs from SS, Assailant) on all the generated damage Then I fully agree that this is moving to the good direction.
    • BUT it should be only at the condition that "active" skills get the compensation in terms of damage generated. So, my suggestion is to boost the others spells to compensate the loss:
      • Boost the At-Will dmg by someting around 15/20% (Here the impact from no Assailant at all is really huge)
      • Boost the Encounters dmg by someting around 10/15% (Due to SS/Assailant #procs reduction as explained above)
      • Leave the Dailies dmg as it is (Not so much impacted by the changes)
    So, moving the cursor of the CWs Skills to more rewarding challenges (Active vs Passive) is good BUT should be compensated by at least getting the same overall damage, and this is where the Mod5 proposed changes need some adjustments.

    Thanks Chris and Devs for reading, I hope this can help you for your tunning on Mod5.


    ACT View for this Test on Mod 4:
    tumblr_ne5mb7qpgk1u2te10o1_1280.png

    ACT View for this Test on Mod 5 (Preview):
    tumblr_ne5mqzz4e31u2te10o1_1280.png
  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ikapamk wrote: »
    Soooo...

    How 'bout that HR, huh?

    The changes look to make trapper a mite bit more viable, which is a welcome change, not that anyone noticed it above the CW vs GWF vs everybody else griefing going on.

    I personally don't think that this changes will make trapper any way required or valuable. We will still on live later. But as for me trapper is still a "broken" HR from mod 2. Cause all that this path can do - other classes or other HRs can do better or easier and with less trouble. Still fun part but for single play.
    The changes on Storm Spell (Moving to 30% proc, from 20%, **but** only on crits) and Assailant (To be activated only on Encounters) have a general impact on damage reduction close to 15% overall.


    I think this is the initial goal. Make CW less OP in pve and move them to control or damage. Not both.
  • thirdquestionthirdquestion Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 96
    edited October 2014
    Thx for killing CW class...
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    -20% less damages in a pve contest seems right for CW.

    however chris the problem ( always related to pve ) are not really random procs from random passive but NO TARGET CAP ON OPPRESSIVE FORCE.
    that is the real problem.

    CWs today just go full derps: pull oppressive, steal time, cleric artifact, pull oppressive, steal time, cleric artifact...and now we will also have a cloak which give as 100% every 40 seconds....

    oppressive force need a cap on target!
    than you can lower the nerfs on procs.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    no, i belive boosting someth for that reason is wrong. they need to remove a portion of selfhealing from HR. that makes the pvp unbalanced. thats why everyone wants to DPS more , for this reason , to overcome his selfhealing.
    from lifesteal we get 10% at max, he gets around 30%-40% , thats not cool. why adding damage to overcome his selfhealing abilities? just nerf his self healing, cause it's unbalancing the game.

    seems this post for some hrs it's a threat, but for those who are really wanting balance in pvp would agree

    on preview server i run an instigator build with offhand legendary using the ferocious reaction boost.
    this boost acts independently and regens my life , like i have 10% regeneration that isn't affected by healing depression, obviously it isn't working as intended and it's bugged.

    but what i posted isn't a whine or complaining, but for those who want a balanced PVP and a good community would agree with me.
    how is this fair in your eyes the selfhealing hrs has? if you think about this:
    i need to fight against a hr using a bugged offhand to offstand him? so a bugged offhand would balance a gwf fighting a HR ? its not right.
    it's not right how hrs kill players on live servers and still having full hp, because of those self healings.

    it's not right at all, if you really want the pvp to be balanced you would stop thinkin like this. if you really want to support the pvp community , its easy on posting the problems with your class, not defending something that unbalances the pvp.
    maybe you call yourself "skilled players" but seriously it's to much thinkin you have skill when you have a feat that is exagerated.


    eitherway: i am not hypocrite or whatevah or trollin around, cause i already posted on intimidation how it should be and act.
    i think its wrong changing frontline.

    there are simple changings that would make all the paragons viable both pve/pvp
    -instigator : mighty leap should prone
    -give to instigator capstone DR 25-50% when unstopable or more Damage resistance , decrease the damage bonus from it to 30% so that it has a normal of 10% and 5% damage bonus per stack = 30%
    -make sprint responsive as the one from SW.

    destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB

    sentinel: Intimidation should give 50% more damage out of defense.
    because?
    GWF for pvp usually puts only RADIANTS (HP) on Defense slots. so we wont see like we see now POWERCREEPS with 12k power , especially in PVP . this change will help the PVE side, cause they will add more defense in their slots to be offtanks.
    but how much defense can you slot out?
    i doubt we will get 10k Defense, especially in PVP.
    even if in absurd someone gets 10k Defense the 50% = 5000 damage, wont multiply with 65% damage bonus(10k power) from POWER, cause you will sacrifice all the power to get the defense. so this thing will keep in balance that burst damage. that everyone complains and make the sentinel path viable both pvp/pve . not to say if u get only defense you will lose HP.
    even if he madly gets 7k-8k defense, he will lack HP/power.
    But
    with 0 stats (no recovery or INT)
    restoring strike - 12s
    ibs - 14s
    Cagi - 15s
    daring shout - 18s

    and with 1300 recovery + 2 int
    restoring strike - 10.5
    ibs - 12.3
    cagi 13.1
    daring shout - 15.8

    i belive lowering on cagi and daring shout , would help the paragon . atleast 2 seconds.
    You people should sustain what i said, cause it's the best on what you can call balance.

    problem is, how you guys will balance other classes,if leaving broken feats/offhands/encounters out there will result in another unbalance gameplay.
    right now after you've added offhand/neck legendary , this is the time you should focus on the balance of classes.


    but if you guys keep defending those bugged things, even players that are testing on preview doesnt give a proper feedback to some certain bugged feats (talkin about DC / TR ) and they still want buffs cause it isn't enough, then this thing should stop , and we all shall face the true that we dont really want balance and want broken feats for every class so that we can prove our skill in pvp !
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    CW Feedback (PvP Related):

    - the reduction in overall damage is too drastic; the CW does not have the tools to deal with the GWF, GF, HR, TR classes anymore
    - going Oppressor is not a viable choice because many classes can ignore our CC through their mechanics: GWF, GF, TR. The only classes that (relatively) suffer against CC are DCs, CWs, HRs, SWs. They do have mechanics however to help them mitigate the incoming damage.
    - missing Orb of Imposition for anything but Oppressor is a very bad change
    - the changes result in a greatly destroyed CW class for PvP that can either bring up some CC with no damage, or some relatively low damage with bad CC. Both types of CW will still die like... you know what.
    - renegade "buffs" are insufficient to make for a relatively powerful Rene CW


    Suggestions:

    - nerfing the procs is GOOD, but you need to BUFF the ENCOUNTERS and slightly decrease their activation time.
    - all CWs need Orb of Imposition, not just Oppressors.
    - you need to keep in mind the CW will find themselves often in 1vs1 situations, and they need to be able to have a decent chance at killing the opponent.
    - bring back Shard of Endless Avalanche. You destroyed it completely for PvP. Please reconsider.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    feedback: Ferocious reaction.
    i got 9 proccs of it, seems you were right nezral.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2789 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2789 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
  • gentlemancrushgentlemancrush Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 445 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2014
    feedback: Ferocious reaction.
    i got 9 proccs of it, seems you were right nezral.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2789 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 5579 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2789 (11612) Physical Damage to Lil Poke 7.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.

    I've been trying all morning, but I cannot reproduce this effect. Can you provide some more context about what powers were hitting you? The power has a bunch of failsafes to try and prevent behavior like this, and they all seem to be working in my testing.
  • koalazebra1koalazebra1 Member Posts: 1,173 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    I've been trying all morning, but I cannot reproduce this effect. Can you provide some more context about what powers were hitting you? The power has a bunch of failsafes to try and prevent behavior like this, and they all seem to be working in my testing.

    hi gentleman crush,

    is it possible for the procs to crit?
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    I've been trying all morning, but I cannot reproduce this effect. Can you provide some more context about what powers were hitting you? The power has a bunch of failsafes to try and prevent behavior like this, and they all seem to be working in my testing.

    ok. think is from DOT or stacks that were on me, made ferocious to multiple procc for each stack i had on me or for each dot i was takin . i lost the combo log cause i restarted my pc.
    that log is from fightin a SW .


    i posted another log here that proced only 1 time, this procced 9 times. if i get another one, i'll post again a logner combat log if necesary. (in a notepad file)

    here is the log of fightin HR:

    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 357 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 178 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 364 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 787 (1008) Necrotic Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Tenebrous Power deals 787 (1008) Necrotic Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 205 (657) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 418 (702) Arcane Damage to you with Elven Ferocity.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 209 (702) Physical Damage to you with Fey Thistle.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 71 (137) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 71 (137) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 18 (36) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 205 (657) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 18 (36) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 598 (929) Physical Damage to you with Rapid Strike.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 239 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Kyomi 8 deals 945 (3736) Physical Damage to you with Rapid Strike.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 641 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 378 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 386 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 19 (37) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 916 (1775) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 284 (881) Physical Damage to you with Rapid Strike.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 256 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 386 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 181 (564) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Kyomi 8 deals 1015 (2007) Physical Damage to you with Rapid Strike.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 23 (45) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 113 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 386 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 386 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 73 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 256 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 8 (15) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 799 (2483) Physical Damage to you with Boar Charge.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 320 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 509 (792) Physical Damage to you with Rapid Strike.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 204 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 354 (551) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 841 (1306) Physical Damage to you with Blade Hurricane.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle gives 0 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Kyomi 8 deals 1840 (7277) Physical Damage to you with Fox Shift.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 0 Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 142 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle gives 0 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 736 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 0 Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 841 (1306) Physical Damage to you with Blade Hurricane.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 336 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 1075 (3340) Physical Damage to you with Fox Shift.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 0 Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 430 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle gives 0 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle gives 0 (821) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 0 Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1271 (2462) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 921 (2862) Physical Damage to you with Marauder's Rush.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 386 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 368 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Kyomi 8 deals 8900 (17595) Physical Damage to you with Slasher's Mark.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 351 (545) Physical Damage to you with Careful Attack.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 3560 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 193 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Prometeo gives 0 Hit Points to you with Gift of Faith.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 219 (900) Physical Damage to you with Blade Hurricane.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 292 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Prometeo gives 0 Hit Points to you with Gift of Faith.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Prometeo gives 0 Hit Points to you with Gift of Faith.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 341 (702) Physical Damage to you with Fey Thistle.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 206 (399) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 206 (399) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 206 (399) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Kyomi 8 deals 140 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2296 (11612) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2296 (11612) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2296 (11612) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.

    it procced 3 times this time.
    maybe the new offhand is doing this.

    and as you are this, please take a look at all that lifesteal hrs is gettin it. it's too much.
    and with the endless consumtion from dread ring campaign if hr can get around 30% lifesteal he wil lget x3 more when that activates. imo , lifesteal should be removed from his feats.
  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited October 2014

    but what i posted isn't a whine or complaining, but for those who want a balanced PVP and a good community would agree with me.
    how is this fair in your eyes the selfhealing hrs has? if you think about this:
    i need to fight against a hr using a bugged offhand to offstand him? so a bugged offhand would balance a gwf fighting a HR ? its not right.
    it's not right how hrs kill players on live servers and still having full hp, because of those self healings.

    it's not right at all, if you really want the pvp to be balanced you would stop thinkin like this. if you really want to support the pvp community , its easy on posting the problems with your class, not defending something that unbalances the pvp.
    maybe you call yourself "skilled players" but seriously it's to much thinkin you have skill when you have a feat that is exagerated.

    Let me correct you
    - WM is nerfed to half. so 2.5% top before healing depression.
    - LS is 5 % from Bloodletting
    + LS 3%x 5 per 3 seconds with 1 sec IDC. So in theory it is 15% for 3 second. Real life ~ 6-9%.
    + LS from Stats. Accessible to any class
    + Endless consumption. Any class.
    All this before Healing depression.

    At the same time HR have not CC brakers. Period. No Shield. No GWF/SW Run. No long dodge. No Stealth. Period.
    So if you what to decrease HR LS what defencive mechanism you offer in return? I stated multiple times before - Instead of WM give combat HR deflection severity of something like that. Nothing.

    I don't support any bugged or broken mechincs. And HR once again got nerfed in this mod. Piercing is fixed. WM nerfed. Fox nerfed.
    No positive fixed. No rework of useless encounter. No fixed for useless or not working dailies. No feats buffed for Archer or Combat. No class feature made usable as they were.
    So take HRs out of your assumptions. Fix borken GWF stuff. HR will have less healing in mod 5 and less damage in mod 5 that will decrease healing even more. Wait until real testing rather then raising cry by reading.

    Core problem with HRs now - whole class has too much of broken or not working mechics.Archer don't use combat. Combat does not use bow. None of them have any CC. Trapper has CC but have no damage or surivability. Combat is valuable only cause of suitability. 3 out of 5 dailies is possible usable in pvp and 1 is a must have. 1 daily is usable in pve. each path can only use 1/3 of encounters. Making other obsolete. Yet required to take while you level btw. This leads to choice of builds. You have to be this path and use only this feats and encounters. Another issues is combat HR have offhand as main. That has lowers base damage. Add it with perma crybaby nerfs. You have HR. Class that reminds me of broken but still loved car. Nobody know how it still drives. But so some reason it is. Even thought you need to put this hear, hold it here and be careful over there.
  • effectensteineffectenstein Member Posts: 1,031 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    thedemien wrote: »
    Let me correct you
    - WM is nerfed to half. so 2.5% top before healing depression.
    - LS is 5 % from Bloodletting
    + LS 3%x 5 per 3 seconds with 1 sec IDC. So in theory it is 15% for 3 second. Real life ~ 6-9%.
    + LS from Stats. Accessible to any class
    + Endless consumption. Any class.
    All this before Healing depression.

    At the same time HR have not CC brakers. Period. No Shield. No GWF/SW Run. No long dodge. No Stealth. Period.
    So if you what to decrease HR LS what defencive mechanism you offer in return? I stated multiple times before - Instead of WM give combat HR deflection severity of something like that. Nothing.

    I don't support any bugged or broken mechincs. And HR once again got nerfed in this mod. Piercing is fixed. WM nerfed. Fox nerfed.
    No positive fixed. No rework of useless encounter. No fixed for useless or not working dailies. No feats buffed for Archer or Combat. No class feature made usable as they were.
    So take HRs out of your assumptions. Fix borken GWF stuff. HR will have less healing in mod 5 and less damage in mod 5 that will decrease healing even more. Wait until real testing rather then raising cry by reading.

    Core problem with HRs now - whole class has too much of broken or not working mechics.Archer don't use combat. Combat does not use bow. None of them have any CC. Trapper has CC but have no damage or surivability. Combat is valuable only cause of suitability. 3 out of 5 dailies is possible usable in pvp and 1 is a must have. 1 daily is usable in pve. each path can only use 1/3 of encounters. Making other obsolete. Yet required to take while you level btw. This leads to choice of builds. You have to be this path and use only this feats and encounters. Another issues is combat HR have offhand as main. That has lowers base damage. Add it with perma crybaby nerfs. You have HR. Class that reminds me of broken but still loved car. Nobody know how it still drives. But so some reason it is. Even thought you need to put this hear, hold it here and be careful over there.

    ok you smart *** that is cryin that HR doesnt have self healing , look at this video made on preview against 1 hr, tell me how he doesnt and tell everyone here how he doesnt selfheals from all that lifesteal, just tell us we see other things.
    explain me how his selfhealings keeps up with my broken offhand with ferocious reaction boost. tell them how only a bugged gwf can compete against of those hr that doESnt have "defensive" stats .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXOnEGW3gAY (sorry for the bad graphic )

    gentleman : in that video ferocious procced 2 times
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1199 (2322) Hit Points to you.
    [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Kyomi 8 deals 523 (2206) Physical Damage to you with Aimed Strike.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2223 (11612) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 2223 (11612) Physical Damage to Kyomi 8.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5996 (11612) Hit Points to you.
  • thedemienthedemien Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ok you smart *** that is cryin that HR doesnt have self healing , look at this video made on preview against 1 hr, tell me how he doesnt and tell everyone here how he doesnt selfheals from all that lifesteal, just tell us we see other things.
    explain me how his selfhealings keeps up with my broken offhand with ferocious reaction boost. tell them how only a bugged gwf can compete against of those hr that doESnt have "defensive" stats .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXOnEGW3gAY (sorry for the bad graphic )

    I m not saying that HR has no self healing. Don't be a crybaby and read what i posted first. Im saying that HRs self healing is vital for HRs since we have no other defensive mechanism. Ok ? got it? read again. No other defense mechanism at all.

    And now major question - how may archers and trapppers do you see in pvp on live now? How valuable are they in pvp? Like 10% or total pvp Hrs? So you what to nerf LS for HR? What to make class absolutly useless in pvp? And if you nerf LS for combat HRs - fk pve too? Good balancing. Smart GWF.

    You posted GWF log. Ok if you raise HR question - how much LS does that guy have? How much regen? What artifacts? How about companions? Is he pathfinder or SW? Or if he using new HR offhand? How about sht load of potion he has on?

    Crying about - fix GWF broken offhand and nerf HR cause i can not kill me easily with new broken toy is not the way you "be objective". ok? Clear? How about you start using your *** instead before you cry about some other class. Keep it to gwf only. you are better at that.
This discussion has been closed.