1. Ferocious Reaction + Instigator Path on 50% = Damage?. Slot 55k+ HP, 60k is optional! Double check on the OP damage! It's okay to put an idiot who don't play GWF as an advocate but at-least do your testing. Stuff like this, you deserve the bashing and then our class is nerfed to the ground every time because of complaints.
2. Sentinel, for compensation for 35% intimidation feat, please increase the range of DS by 5 and decrease cool down by 2s.
a decrase in cooldown on frontline surge would be nice too cause its 2k dmg with 17 sec cd which is kinda laughable
or else give GWF hes dmg back.
No, there was a time in the game's history where TRs could bring a pretty good amount of single-target DPS and most parties had a TR or two. Later in the game, GWFs took over that position as well as stealing the GF's tanking pants. No point bringing a TR and a GF to a dungeon when a GWF could do what both of those could, and better. So you'd get like GWF + DC + 3 CW parties.
sorry, but you missed the point.
Your ideal party consists in 1 gwf and 3 cw (3 cw=3 spots; cw spot+2). notice how, to be totally honest, the fact that the gwf was never the point of imbalance appears?
Here is the difference between theories and facts. "stole functions" X stole spots.
but yes, gwf is really good in this time because... he got the damage level of cw without 928769834768478 stacks like now. at least to a certain gear / iv gwf is a really strong class (low gs levels/sm, cw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gwf).
.
ps: and "old content" is the game content. 99%
No, there was a time in the game's history where TRs could bring a pretty good amount of single-target DPS and most parties had a TR or two. Later in the game, GWFs took over that position as well as stealing the GF's tanking pants. No point bringing a TR and a GF to a dungeon when a GWF could do what both of those could, and better. So you'd get like GWF + DC + 3 CW parties.
that was mod 2 with fkd up deep gash(kind of like Piercing on HR now), before that gwf were kind of useless, maybe in launch but i didnt get to play much at 60 then was too busy playing alts \
aand it seems they want to return gwf to mod1, just now without DR on unstoppable
In mod4 you said you wanted GWF to chose damage or survivability, atm Destroyer and Instigator has neither, either buff our base dmg by some 20% or give us back DR on unstoppable
sry but no.. gwf already has too long animations as it is. If you want to compare FLS with something, do it with icy rays! The animations of gwf take so long that even if a stun lands people can get out of them.
i would prefer new animation thou im tired of my imaginary shield
maybe a ground smash with fist that masterwork golem does just a bit faster :rolleyes:
Although the suggestions serve "good intentions" I disagree. Here is why:
- FLS on current animation "can be dodged". More animation time, you won't be able to even land it on anyone. Decent players already know how to dodge FLS (at least on premades, but the developers don't have a clue).
- FLS on higher animation will eat the stun time, it already feels like around 1.5s, more animation? no way!
- 9-10s cd on a "ranged" stun would be "too op".
- 15-20% damage on FLS is negligible damage and FLS main use is CC. So I think it's wise to turn it around and make it more "usable" CC encounter. CAGI/DS and IBS is there for the burst.
So given the above, instead, let's evaluate our game mechanic and what changes "need" to be made:
FLS > IBS (instigator) or FLS > CAGI > DS (sentinel) , destroyer is better with low cd td.
So the first thing is, we cannot do IBS or CAGI / DS without a stun. You can argue "we can land CAGI" but "DS" can still be dodged and CAGI alone isn't sufficient to land a reliable DS.
The duration of the stun is a problem, and it feels like 1.5s or less because of tenacity, in-game lag, high animation in IBS/CAGI etc. The second problem in our mechanic is, other classes have a ton of dodge. A skilled player knows how to dodge FLS. It's a VERY high risk shot. because without a stun it's unreliable to land IBS or CAGI/DS combo and if one of these fails the only option GWF is left with is "running for pots". So given this, it "makes sense" for the following changes:
- increase FLS to 3.5s stun from 3s stun. Sufficient time to land an IBS or CAGI/DS combo.
- decrease FLS to 15s cooldown BUT if FLS is dodged or missed by "all targets" reduce the cooldown to 8s
- increase DS range by 5 and reduce cooldown by 2s, compensation and balanced change for 35% feat change. - the new ferocious reaction damage on instigator is sick and OP. Test it on 55k hp.
- stop using pots in PvP.
- glyph, specially changes to red - i would pay special attention to this on CW, please double check
- HR and HP leech , double check and push limits
I am being balanced, not just saying "BUFF GWF" and I am also pointing out the nerfs, for my own class as well. Please consider my feedback. And please, get us an advocate who understands our class, tests proper changes and has his "main" as "GWF". Not some comedian ranting non-sense on the barracks with multiple accounts.
there are simple changings that would make all the paragons viable both pve/pvp
-instigator : mighty leap should prone
-give to instigator capstone DR 25-50% when unstopable or more Damage resistance , decrease the damage bonus from it to 30% so that it has a normal of 10% and 5% damage bonus per stack = 30%
-make sprint responsive as the one from SW.
destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB
sentinel: Intimidation should give 50% more damage out of defense.
because?
GWF for pvp usually puts only RADIANTS (HP) on Defense slots. so we wont see like we see now POWERCREEPS with 12k power , especially in PVP . this change will help the PVE side, cause they will add more defense in their slots to be offtanks.
but how much defense can you slot out?
i doubt we will get 10k Defense, especially in PVP.
even if in absurd someone gets 10k Defense the 50% = 5000 damage, wont multiply with 65% damage bonus(10k power) from POWER, cause you will sacrifice all the power to get the defense. so this thing will keep in balance that burst damage. that everyone complains and make the sentinel path viable both pvp/pve . not to say if u get only defense you will lose HP.
even if he madly gets 7k-8k defense, he will lack HP/power.
But
with 0 stats (no recovery or INT)
restoring strike - 12s
ibs - 14s
Cagi - 15s
daring shout - 18s
and with 1300 recovery + 2 int
restoring strike - 10.5
ibs - 12.3
cagi 13.1
daring shout - 15.8
i belive lowering on cagi and daring shout , would help the paragon . atleast 2 seconds. You people should sustain what i said, cause it's the best on what you can call balance.
problem is, how you guys will balance other classes,if leaving broken feats/offhands/encounters out there will result in another unbalance gameplay.
right now after you've added offhand/neck legendary , this is the time you should focus on the balance of classes.
PWE can fix PVP (for the most part) by creating a matchmaking system based on personal wins/losses/kills/deaths where one goes up and down in ranking based on personal performance. Then group like people within +/- 5%. As a person gets better, they go up; worse, they go down.
I completely agree changing a given class in order to balance pvp can cause undo harm (enjoyment wise) for those that pve or like to pve and pvp.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
6 GWF feeds in a row developers on page 43. Show us some love! Read our posts, change is "necessary".
yes, but lets not change cooldowns on them, cause lets faceit now on preview as instigator/destroyer landing 1 ibs is pretty easy.
takedown/frontline surge from this 2 stuns after that 1 ibs = huge damage.
reason why my previous post is good for balancing:
1 instigator doesnt have the same dps as destroyer and has the same surviability, that would make him unbalanced , raise up the unstopable to 25-50%.
2. destroyer does huge damage with full stacks, but lacks surviability.
3. sentinel should excel through his surviability as the other 2 paragons excel through their damage, but he must do less damage.
if devs would want to do what i've posted and apply , i guarantee you there wont be people to whine for the gwf anymore. all paragons would be viable for all both pve/pvp.
maybe with some little tweaks here and there, that would solve it.
no more whining gwf 's for 2-3 modules from now.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
there are simple changings that would make all the paragons viable both pve/pvp
-instigator : mighty leap should prone
-give to instigator capstone DR 25-50% when unstopable or more Damage resistance , decrease the damage bonus from it to 30% so that it has a normal of 10% and 5% damage bonus per stack = 30%
-make sprint responsive as the one from SW.
destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB
sentinel: Intimidation should give 50% more damage out of defense.
because?
GWF for pvp usually puts only RADIANTS (HP) on Defense slots. so we wont see like we see now POWERCREEPS with 12k power , especially in PVP . this change will help the PVE side, cause they will add more defense in their slots to be offtanks.
but how much defense can you slot out?
i doubt we will get 10k Defense, especially in PVP.
even if in absurd someone gets 10k Defense the 50% = 5000 damage, wont multiply with 65% damage bonus(10k power) from POWER, cause you will sacrifice all the power to get the defense. so this thing will keep in balance that burst damage. that everyone complains and make the sentinel path viable both pvp/pve . not to say if u get only defense you will lose HP.
even if he madly gets 7k-8k defense, he will lack HP/power.
But
with 0 stats (no recovery or INT)
restoring strike - 12s
ibs - 14s
Cagi - 15s
daring shout - 18s
and with 1300 recovery + 2 int
restoring strike - 10.5
ibs - 12.3
cagi 13.1
daring shout - 15.8
i belive lowering on cagi and daring shout , would help the paragon . atleast 2 seconds. You people should sustain what i said, cause it's the best on what you can call balance.
problem is, how you guys will balance other classes,if leaving broken feats/offhands/encounters out there will result in another unbalance gameplay.
right now after you've added offhand/neck legendary , this is the time you should focus on the balance of classes.
Well, I disagree with a number of points. The suggested intentions are good but not practical. Here is the list, why :
1. RI% is overflowing through the roof. On top of that there are red glyphs. Slotting defense in PvP, useful? I think not!
HP for GWF. Why?
a. CON build RI% and gives bonus HP
b. Unstoppable support HP
c. HP Regen
d. New improved ferocious reaction
For these reasons HP scales a lot better than defense! So slotting radiant is the right choice! Not to mention so many GWF have to change their r8-r10s after spending so much time building them.
2. Defense as 50% intimidation, will require more like 75%! Instead of saying 8k power this, 10k power that 5k power useless - the BEST thing to do in my opinion is to "set a cap" on intimidation at 50% max powered to 6.5k or something reasonable.
This way, sentinel's best bet is to use a "purified set" staying away from the glass cannon and serving it's intended purpose as tank and giving "balanced" damage. This is a good alternative, to what I suggested earlier one comment before yours. This way the sentinel tree stays balanced and the buff/nerf is shifted to other class, such as CW on red glyph, HR and HP leech, etc, etc.
3. The change of FLS and DS is better for GWF. No stun, no IBS or CAGI / DS combo (CAGI still possible but DS dodge without stun for low range). Otherwise it's better to use TR > TD and no need for FLS. So increase the range for DS, lower it's cd, decrease the cool down for FLS and give it a 3.5s stun = BALANCED. Better explanation is written in page 43, #429 stands better, explaining the mechanics.
- Mighty leap as prone on instigator, great idea! Instead of deflect on sprint, change that to increase AC by 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 if ferocious reaction is slotted would make the tree viable, minus the crazy OP damage from ferocious reaction of course! Because the instigator is uber weak defense and low determination build giving it a little defense and better cc makes sense!
well they are practical , even better than practical.
1. RI% = 2k armor + 28 con = 38% maybe he can get up to 45% with pots/glyphs= this in on GWF.
i was not sayin that every sentinel should unslot his RADIANTS for AZURE cause that would be stupid givin up on HP for Defense, i was just sayin this will oblige sentinels to remain on 4k-5k defense in pvp. and would make sense .
and yes HP for pvp is great and that would remain for all classes, not only for GWF.
new mproved ferocious reaction only activates when u are at 15% hp, and if you tried it out with the new offhand ferocious reaction boost, that is bugged my friend.
and yes, i agree again HP is far better tahn defense and sloting radiants in pvp is the only chocie. and i didnt even said they need to change radiants/azure to make what i said about sentinel being viable for pvp
mate . 50% out of Defense it's the best choice of balancing sentinel out. 4k = 2000 damage , 5k = 2500 damage, setting a cap is a bit radical, with shorten cooldowns to compensate !!!
so that he wont make 20k in one shot, he can do 7k-14k at most. with fast recharging.
so i repeat again so that you will learn what i am sayin,
right now there are gwf that stacked alot of power goin like crazy on a tank paragon 1 shotting players out.
and they have like 11k power with 2k defense, and they are SENTINELS.
thats a little too much dont you think mate?
how c-ome a tank class do huge burst of 20l-30k on one encounter?
if crush reads what i said and implement it out, and let us test out what i said, you will see that would be very balancing and will keep GWF all 3 paragons on a good track !
so how i see it, like you already said it, this huge stats creep will make GWF sentinel to use it on defense.
like it is now gwf sentinel on live server , it's half - a sed imo , what i said would make him balanced.
LE: there isn't anycrazy damage on ferocious reaction .
it gives 25% at rank 1 as healing and damage out of your max hp when you are at 15% hp, it activates 1 time at 3 min.
goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?
givin 3AC = 1.5% damage resistance. how will that help out the instigator path? 1.5% daamage resistance > 10% deflect while sprinting, is that how you see this?
imo we shouldn't fk up the mechanic the GWF has.
READ AGAIN what i said, people like dante or other pvp gwf would agree with me.
2. destroyer does huge damage with full stacks, but lacks surviability.
destroyer doesnt do huge damage, its ok dmg at best for a squishy melee dps class with close to no utility
if u compare destro damage the only other classes that fall in to the same category are HR and SW, maybe tr but tr is single target focused while GWF, SW and HR are both aoe and single target
destroyer doesnt do huge damage, its ok dmg at best for a squishy melee dps class with close to no utility
if u compare destro damage the only other classes that fall in to the same category are HR and SW, maybe tr but tr is single target focused while GWF, SW and HR are both aoe and single target
reason why GWF destroyer doesnt outdps SW/CW and newly hybrid 13k+power with cagi/daring shout is that he doesnt DPS them OVERALL, because he needs to build stacks. but with full stacks he hits like a TRUCK.
same with GWF pvp destroyer on LIVE. i know a PVP GWF that hitted 34k with IBS and not scrubs.
READ AGAIN WHAT I POSTED. and what are the demands of what i said. cause there are a chain of posts, and dont pick up the conversation at the end.
if you say destroyer doesnt do huge damage, then lets give 100% damage bonus to its cap, makin you happy .
"destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB"
and btw, i dont try to make the class useless or OVERPOWERED , only balanced.
if the increase to base dmg doesnt affect stacks then at full stacks dmg would be ok, though imho base should be increased by more and stacks reduced to some 20% from capstone, the insane dmg numbers on capstone(40% and 50%) shows gwf dmg needs to be increased
but as it is now the damage at full stacks isnt as impressive
if the increase to base dmg doesnt affect stacks then at full stacks dmg would be ok, though imho base should be increased by more and stacks reduced to some 20% from capstone, the insane dmg numbers on capstone(40% and 50%) shows gwf dmg needs to be increased
but as it is now the damage at full stacks isnt as impressive
for me hittin 240k crit with ibs and 150k crit with restoring strike in PVe content having indeed a GF or a DC in a party it's pretty much alot of damage.
adjusting it out on base damage by 20% would only help gwf destroyer to do significant damage. helpin him out with the overall damage.
as a PaingGiver i dont mind being on 2nd place, we dont need to be only on 1st place,. and yes in epic lol SW outdps, because they are a newly class to this game, but they will get nerfs, they dont have the 2nd path yet on live. so i dont mind them yet.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
well they are practical , even better than practical.
1. RI% = 2k armor + 28 con = 38% maybe he can get up to 45% with pots/glyphs= this in on GWF.
i was not sayin that every sentinel should unslot his RADIANTS for AZURE cause that would be stupid givin up on HP for Defense, i was just sayin this will oblige sentinels to remain on 4k-5k defense in pvp. and would make sense .
and yes HP for pvp is great and that would remain for all classes, not only for GWF.
new mproved ferocious reaction only activates when u are at 15% hp, and if you tried it out with the new offhand ferocious reaction boost, that is bugged my friend.
and yes, i agree again HP is far better tahn defense and sloting radiants in pvp is the only chocie. and i didnt even said they need to change radiants/azure to make what i said about sentinel being viable for pvp
mate . 50% out of Defense it's the best choice of balancing sentinel out. 4k = 2000 damage , 5k = 2500 damage, setting a cap is a bit radical, with shorten cooldowns to compensate !!!
so that he wont make 20k in one shot, he can do 7k-14k at most. with fast recharging.
so i repeat again so that you will learn what i am sayin,
right now there are gwf that stacked alot of power goin like crazy on a tank paragon 1 shotting players out.
and they have like 11k power with 2k defense, and they are SENTINELS.
thats a little too much dont you think mate?
how c-ome a tank class do huge burst of 20l-30k on one encounter?
if crush reads what i said and implement it out, and let us test out what i said, you will see that would be very balancing and will keep GWF all 3 paragons on a good track !
so how i see it, like you already said it, this huge stats creep will make GWF sentinel to use it on defense.
like it is now gwf sentinel on live server , it's half - a sed imo , what i said would make him balanced.
LE: there isn't anycrazy damage on ferocious reaction .
it gives 25% at rank 1 as healing and damage out of your max hp when you are at 15% hp, it activates 1 time at 3 min.
goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?
givin 3AC = 1.5% damage resistance. how will that help out the instigator path? 1.5% daamage resistance > 10% deflect while sprinting, is that how you see this?
imo we shouldn't fk up the mechanic the GWF has.
READ AGAIN what i said, people like dante or other pvp gwf would agree with me.
1. Ideally you build 36-38% RI. Or at-least this is the way I see it. People will go glass cannon, pugs in PvP, range classes. It doesn't make sense to go above 38% RI. Agreed? So the 3 AC , full purified set, defense ring will give instigator a little more tank. Also not everyone in the team will have a 20k GS. Practically you will meet 17-18k GS even in premade. Also 10% deflect while running? who cares! Punishing charge? Useless. GWF get CC before sprinting or before deploying an encounter. If you are going higher RI you are sacking Crit Rate or Power. Sounds good to me! So yes on instigator path 3 AC > 10% deflect while sprinting, I would take that plus your suggestion, prone on mighty leap. Mighty Leap (prone) >IBS > TD whacking Sure Strike , chase with TR, the extra pace from 1st column on high stamina regen , then mighty leap again. Nice!
Instead of Destro's hit & run you now have harass & chase. Keep the destro for PvE, if you like.
2. 10k power= glass cannon sentinel, all offense rings, necklace, offense slots on 2 corrupted piece 38-42k hp. This looks like a tank to you? If you get CC before sprinting you are dead! It's basically a kami-kaze unit - kill or be killed. Team vs team, they are like paper.
Now, the problem is, sneaking one of these into a 14k power, right? bubble up the CAGI and DS, boom! Well have you noticed something, 14k power roll, don't go alone on premade - they have a DC supporting them. My logic to that is, DS is a 20' attack. If a bunch of CW / HR / SW are standing that close to each other, something sounds off in their game play! On top of that FLS is a high risk shot, easily dodge. Miss the stun, CAGI. CAGI > DS without stun ? good opponents ... don't think so! High risk, high cd - high rewards. Kill or be killed, plus because of rolling with a DC there is that fact of the DC not posting the damage. It's a high risk build, requires good sync between DC and GWF together, always and deserves it's reward. PvP currently is all about burst, and there are new(er) toys coming. If you are not doing the burst, someone else is. That's how PvP currently works.
But the key is to somehow make the sentinel put on purified, so it's a tank with intended use and gives reasonable dps.
3. Goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?
Wrong. Might as well go 55k hp, why 50k Test it, and I said instigator path. See what other damage is stacking on it. 50% bonus damage and put opponent on marked. What results do you see?
to respond to you nezzral
1.i was suggestin Mighty leap as a prone for PVE mostly dunno how will go out in a pvp.
2. yes , thats why i was sayn the changes on intimidation its exactly for this reason. even if you think defense it's useless , but at least it will remain a TANK stats for a TANK paragon . thats exactly first reason. it shouldn't be a tank paragon a glasscannon and do better burst than offensive paragons. thats not good. and the only way to fix it and make it viable is the way i am sayin without breakin the mechanic or makin this build useless.
3 [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Fey Thistle.
[Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 987 (1010) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 31 (60) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 9100 (14107) Cold Damage to you with Ice Knife.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 387 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you. [Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 1050 (2035) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5931 (11486) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 11234 (11486) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Must have a target.
[Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 2386 (2310) Hit Points to you.
so is there any huge DPS that i dont know about?
this 11k damage 1 at 3 mins it's nothing in a pvp 1vs1.
this is a newly and freshed combat log.
BTW: in pvp for instigator / destro encounters are this:
Takedown/Frontline surge and IBS
reason is that stun is influenced by other things other the control resist .
so on preview playin instigator i have the same rotation as for destroyer.
using the runner build as destroyer its out of the question for me.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
That's not quite the result what one of my friends got yesterday. But I haven't seen the results myself and his results are different. Perhaps I misunderstood what he said. Need to re-confirm when I get home. I was under the impression also, Marked Target + Instigator's Vengence (50% damage boost) would have an effect. This is results in instigator, correct?
Can you double check with a friend in IWD, post his DR% and your RI%? Not at home at the moment. Would be of great help! At least, we are having a civil conversation 99% of people in the forum have no clue.
TD / FLS / IBS is fine but reflects better on Destro in my opinon, even if you don't use BF. 5/5 in exec and 5/5 in recovery (5s td ^). I would even opt to go TD (5s CD) > IBS > RS (RS is auto-target, doesn't need a stun to execute).
Now Migthty Leap (prone) > IBS > TD / FLS / RS , even boosted NSF + Sure Strike(s) with trample the fallen + 3 AC, looks attractive. Maybe Mighty Leap (prone), NSF (build determination) IBS ... hybrid between an "intended" Sentinel and Destroyer.
That's not quite the result what one of my friends got yesterday. But I haven't seen the results myself and his results are different. Perhaps I misunderstood what he said. Need to re-confirm when I get home. I was under the impression also, Marked Target + Instigator's Vengence (50% damage boost) would have an effect. This is results in instigator, correct?
Can you double check with a friend in IWD, post his DR% and your RI%? Not at home at the moment. Would be of great help!
dont know what your friend was sayin and all, this was tested against a potted CW with 47khp .
i randomly killed him. my hp is 45.943. so yeah m8.
i heard someth of 82k but on a GF . someth about DOTS and knightvalor.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Okay , thanks for confirming. Appreciate the feedback. Good conversation and good talking to you. If you want to test things on preview my handle is nezraal. Feel free to add me.
a pvp build on instigator will have around 30% critical chance, slotting weapon master you get another 10%, boosting up from offhand hand you get 5% more + 5% crit offered by CBA , you have 50% critical chance. so indeed ferocious reaction is good now on preview cause it's bugged, by not worth it, losing that 50% crit chance.
that bugged ferocious reaction from offhand makes gwf keep on par with HR selfhealing, you can fight a HR , for minutes without even beating him or him to kill you. thats pretty crazy right.
so we need a bugged offhand to fight against a HR?
now seriously... that self healing from hr is too much in this game, to much lifestealing.
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Well at least we are getting it into attention of devs. So the outcome was good and our debate was constructive. Devs please follow the last few posts and confirm the test results for Ferocious reaction on Instigator as effectenstein tested.Bug, intended feat, reward for having a useless advocate who don't play GWF, wasting 3 mins playing neverwinter and being a cw punch bag - what is it ?
Oh yes, HR and life steal. Destroyer has no chance to be honest. A second close is Destroyer vs TR. I agree 100%. I am assuming more changes to come to these classes or some boost in Destro feat. Love playing the tree but needs gas pvp wise, BIG TIME!
no, i belive boosting someth for that reason is wrong. they need to remove a portion of selfhealing from HR. that makes the pvp unbalanced. thats why everyone wants to DPS more , for this reason , to overcome his selfhealing.
from lifesteal we get 10% at max, he gets around 30%-40% , thats not cool. why adding damage to overcome his selfhealing abilities? just nerf his self healing, cause it's unbalancing the game.
no, i belive boosting someth for that reason is wrong. they need to remove a portion of selfhealing from HR. that makes the pvp unbalanced. thats why everyone wants to DPS more , for this reason , to overcome his selfhealing.
from lifesteal we get 10% at max, he gets around 30%-40% , thats not cool. why adding damage to overcome his selfhealing abilities? just nerf his self healing, cause it's unbalancing the game.
some ppl dont give a rats rear end about pvp and want more dps for pve
some ppl dont give a rats rear end about pvp and want more dps for pve
i know you want more dps, i got that feeling from reading your first sentence.
but lets just let "big boys" do the work, and if we dont have anything good to say we shouldn't say it.
i know you want more dps, i got that feeling from reading your first sentence.
but lets just let "big boys" do the work, and if we dont have anything good to say we shouldn't say it.
giving destro more dmg wouldnt fk up PvP since the only good build GWF has for pvp is the boring sent
The changes look to make trapper a mite bit more viable, which is a welcome change, not that anyone noticed it above the CW vs GWF vs everybody else griefing going on.
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a decrase in cooldown on frontline surge would be nice too cause its 2k dmg with 17 sec cd which is kinda laughable
or else give GWF hes dmg back.
sorry, but you missed the point.
Your ideal party consists in 1 gwf and 3 cw (3 cw=3 spots; cw spot+2). notice how, to be totally honest, the fact that the gwf was never the point of imbalance appears?
Here is the difference between theories and facts. "stole functions" X stole spots.
but yes, gwf is really good in this time because... he got the damage level of cw without 928769834768478 stacks like now. at least to a certain gear / iv gwf is a really strong class (low gs levels/sm, cw>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gwf).
.
ps: and "old content" is the game content. 99%
My suggestion:
- 9-10 seconds cooldown
- slightly longer animation (think Chill Strike)
- Damage increased about 15-20%.
that was mod 2 with fkd up deep gash(kind of like Piercing on HR now), before that gwf were kind of useless, maybe in launch but i didnt get to play much at 60 then was too busy playing alts
aand it seems they want to return gwf to mod1, just now without DR on unstoppable
In mod4 you said you wanted GWF to chose damage or survivability, atm Destroyer and Instigator has neither, either buff our base dmg by some 20% or give us back DR on unstoppable
sry but no.. gwf already has too long animations as it is. If you want to compare FLS with something, do it with icy rays! The animations of gwf take so long that even if a stun lands people can get out of them.
i would prefer new animation thou im tired of my imaginary shield
maybe a ground smash with fist that masterwork golem does just a bit faster :rolleyes:
Although the suggestions serve "good intentions" I disagree. Here is why:
- FLS on current animation "can be dodged". More animation time, you won't be able to even land it on anyone. Decent players already know how to dodge FLS (at least on premades, but the developers don't have a clue).
- FLS on higher animation will eat the stun time, it already feels like around 1.5s, more animation? no way!
- 9-10s cd on a "ranged" stun would be "too op".
- 15-20% damage on FLS is negligible damage and FLS main use is CC. So I think it's wise to turn it around and make it more "usable" CC encounter. CAGI/DS and IBS is there for the burst.
So given the above, instead, let's evaluate our game mechanic and what changes "need" to be made:
FLS > IBS (instigator) or FLS > CAGI > DS (sentinel) , destroyer is better with low cd td.
So the first thing is, we cannot do IBS or CAGI / DS without a stun. You can argue "we can land CAGI" but "DS" can still be dodged and CAGI alone isn't sufficient to land a reliable DS.
The duration of the stun is a problem, and it feels like 1.5s or less because of tenacity, in-game lag, high animation in IBS/CAGI etc. The second problem in our mechanic is, other classes have a ton of dodge. A skilled player knows how to dodge FLS. It's a VERY high risk shot. because without a stun it's unreliable to land IBS or CAGI/DS combo and if one of these fails the only option GWF is left with is "running for pots". So given this, it "makes sense" for the following changes:
- increase FLS to 3.5s stun from 3s stun. Sufficient time to land an IBS or CAGI/DS combo.
- decrease FLS to 15s cooldown BUT if FLS is dodged or missed by "all targets" reduce the cooldown to 8s
- increase DS range by 5 and reduce cooldown by 2s, compensation and balanced change for 35% feat change.
- the new ferocious reaction damage on instigator is sick and OP. Test it on 55k hp.
- stop using pots in PvP.
- glyph, specially changes to red - i would pay special attention to this on CW, please double check
- HR and HP leech , double check and push limits
I am being balanced, not just saying "BUFF GWF" and I am also pointing out the nerfs, for my own class as well. Please consider my feedback. And please, get us an advocate who understands our class, tests proper changes and has his "main" as "GWF". Not some comedian ranting non-sense on the barracks with multiple accounts.
THANK YOU
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there are simple changings that would make all the paragons viable both pve/pvp
-instigator : mighty leap should prone
-give to instigator capstone DR 25-50% when unstopable or more Damage resistance , decrease the damage bonus from it to 30% so that it has a normal of 10% and 5% damage bonus per stack = 30%
-make sprint responsive as the one from SW.
destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB
sentinel: Intimidation should give 50% more damage out of defense.
because?
GWF for pvp usually puts only RADIANTS (HP) on Defense slots. so we wont see like we see now POWERCREEPS with 12k power , especially in PVP . this change will help the PVE side, cause they will add more defense in their slots to be offtanks.
but how much defense can you slot out?
i doubt we will get 10k Defense, especially in PVP.
even if in absurd someone gets 10k Defense the 50% = 5000 damage, wont multiply with 65% damage bonus(10k power) from POWER, cause you will sacrifice all the power to get the defense. so this thing will keep in balance that burst damage. that everyone complains and make the sentinel path viable both pvp/pve . not to say if u get only defense you will lose HP.
even if he madly gets 7k-8k defense, he will lack HP/power.
But
with 0 stats (no recovery or INT)
restoring strike - 12s
ibs - 14s
Cagi - 15s
daring shout - 18s
and with 1300 recovery + 2 int
restoring strike - 10.5
ibs - 12.3
cagi 13.1
daring shout - 15.8
i belive lowering on cagi and daring shout , would help the paragon . atleast 2 seconds.
You people should sustain what i said, cause it's the best on what you can call balance.
problem is, how you guys will balance other classes,if leaving broken feats/offhands/encounters out there will result in another unbalance gameplay.
right now after you've added offhand/neck legendary , this is the time you should focus on the balance of classes.
I completely agree changing a given class in order to balance pvp can cause undo harm (enjoyment wise) for those that pve or like to pve and pvp.
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takedown/frontline surge from this 2 stuns after that 1 ibs = huge damage.
reason why my previous post is good for balancing:
1 instigator doesnt have the same dps as destroyer and has the same surviability, that would make him unbalanced , raise up the unstopable to 25-50%.
2. destroyer does huge damage with full stacks, but lacks surviability.
3. sentinel should excel through his surviability as the other 2 paragons excel through their damage, but he must do less damage.
if devs would want to do what i've posted and apply , i guarantee you there wont be people to whine for the gwf anymore. all paragons would be viable for all both pve/pvp.
maybe with some little tweaks here and there, that would solve it.
no more whining gwf 's for 2-3 modules from now.
Well, I disagree with a number of points. The suggested intentions are good but not practical. Here is the list, why :
1. RI% is overflowing through the roof. On top of that there are red glyphs. Slotting defense in PvP, useful? I think not!
HP for GWF. Why?
a. CON build RI% and gives bonus HP
b. Unstoppable support HP
c. HP Regen
d. New improved ferocious reaction
For these reasons HP scales a lot better than defense! So slotting radiant is the right choice! Not to mention so many GWF have to change their r8-r10s after spending so much time building them.
2. Defense as 50% intimidation, will require more like 75%! Instead of saying 8k power this, 10k power that 5k power useless - the BEST thing to do in my opinion is to "set a cap" on intimidation at 50% max powered to 6.5k or something reasonable.
This way, sentinel's best bet is to use a "purified set" staying away from the glass cannon and serving it's intended purpose as tank and giving "balanced" damage. This is a good alternative, to what I suggested earlier one comment before yours. This way the sentinel tree stays balanced and the buff/nerf is shifted to other class, such as CW on red glyph, HR and HP leech, etc, etc.
3. The change of FLS and DS is better for GWF. No stun, no IBS or CAGI / DS combo (CAGI still possible but DS dodge without stun for low range). Otherwise it's better to use TR > TD and no need for FLS. So increase the range for DS, lower it's cd, decrease the cool down for FLS and give it a 3.5s stun = BALANCED. Better explanation is written in page 43, #429 stands better, explaining the mechanics.
- Mighty leap as prone on instigator, great idea! Instead of deflect on sprint, change that to increase AC by 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 if ferocious reaction is slotted would make the tree viable, minus the crazy OP damage from ferocious reaction of course! Because the instigator is uber weak defense and low determination build giving it a little defense and better cc makes sense!
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1. RI% = 2k armor + 28 con = 38% maybe he can get up to 45% with pots/glyphs= this in on GWF.
i was not sayin that every sentinel should unslot his RADIANTS for AZURE cause that would be stupid givin up on HP for Defense, i was just sayin this will oblige sentinels to remain on 4k-5k defense in pvp. and would make sense .
and yes HP for pvp is great and that would remain for all classes, not only for GWF.
new mproved ferocious reaction only activates when u are at 15% hp, and if you tried it out with the new offhand ferocious reaction boost, that is bugged my friend.
and yes, i agree again HP is far better tahn defense and sloting radiants in pvp is the only chocie. and i didnt even said they need to change radiants/azure to make what i said about sentinel being viable for pvp
mate . 50% out of Defense it's the best choice of balancing sentinel out. 4k = 2000 damage , 5k = 2500 damage, setting a cap is a bit radical, with shorten cooldowns to compensate !!!
so that he wont make 20k in one shot, he can do 7k-14k at most. with fast recharging.
so i repeat again so that you will learn what i am sayin,
right now there are gwf that stacked alot of power goin like crazy on a tank paragon 1 shotting players out.
and they have like 11k power with 2k defense, and they are SENTINELS.
thats a little too much dont you think mate?
how c-ome a tank class do huge burst of 20l-30k on one encounter?
if crush reads what i said and implement it out, and let us test out what i said, you will see that would be very balancing and will keep GWF all 3 paragons on a good track !
so how i see it, like you already said it, this huge stats creep will make GWF sentinel to use it on defense.
like it is now gwf sentinel on live server , it's half - a sed imo , what i said would make him balanced.
LE: there isn't anycrazy damage on ferocious reaction .
it gives 25% at rank 1 as healing and damage out of your max hp when you are at 15% hp, it activates 1 time at 3 min.
goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?
givin 3AC = 1.5% damage resistance. how will that help out the instigator path? 1.5% daamage resistance > 10% deflect while sprinting, is that how you see this?
imo we shouldn't fk up the mechanic the GWF has.
READ AGAIN what i said, people like dante or other pvp gwf would agree with me.
destroyer doesnt do huge damage, its ok dmg at best for a squishy melee dps class with close to no utility
if u compare destro damage the only other classes that fall in to the same category are HR and SW, maybe tr but tr is single target focused while GWF, SW and HR are both aoe and single target
reason why GWF destroyer doesnt outdps SW/CW and newly hybrid 13k+power with cagi/daring shout is that he doesnt DPS them OVERALL, because he needs to build stacks. but with full stacks he hits like a TRUCK.
same with GWF pvp destroyer on LIVE. i know a PVP GWF that hitted 34k with IBS and not scrubs.
READ AGAIN WHAT I POSTED. and what are the demands of what i said. cause there are a chain of posts, and dont pick up the conversation at the end.
if you say destroyer doesnt do huge damage, then lets give 100% damage bonus to its cap, makin you happy .
"destroyer: leave it as it is, but only increase the base damage to 20% , while unstopable he gains 10% and as he is doing 20 stacks of each 1% / stack. = 50% DB"
and btw, i dont try to make the class useless or OVERPOWERED , only balanced.
but as it is now the damage at full stacks isnt as impressive
for me hittin 240k crit with ibs and 150k crit with restoring strike in PVe content having indeed a GF or a DC in a party it's pretty much alot of damage.
adjusting it out on base damage by 20% would only help gwf destroyer to do significant damage. helpin him out with the overall damage.
as a PaingGiver i dont mind being on 2nd place, we dont need to be only on 1st place,. and yes in epic lol SW outdps, because they are a newly class to this game, but they will get nerfs, they dont have the 2nd path yet on live. so i dont mind them yet.
1. Ideally you build 36-38% RI. Or at-least this is the way I see it. People will go glass cannon, pugs in PvP, range classes. It doesn't make sense to go above 38% RI. Agreed? So the 3 AC , full purified set, defense ring will give instigator a little more tank. Also not everyone in the team will have a 20k GS. Practically you will meet 17-18k GS even in premade. Also 10% deflect while running? who cares! Punishing charge? Useless. GWF get CC before sprinting or before deploying an encounter. If you are going higher RI you are sacking Crit Rate or Power. Sounds good to me! So yes on instigator path 3 AC > 10% deflect while sprinting, I would take that plus your suggestion, prone on mighty leap. Mighty Leap (prone) >IBS > TD whacking Sure Strike , chase with TR, the extra pace from 1st column on high stamina regen , then mighty leap again. Nice!
Instead of Destro's hit & run you now have harass & chase. Keep the destro for PvE, if you like.
2. 10k power= glass cannon sentinel, all offense rings, necklace, offense slots on 2 corrupted piece 38-42k hp. This looks like a tank to you? If you get CC before sprinting you are dead! It's basically a kami-kaze unit - kill or be killed. Team vs team, they are like paper.
Now, the problem is, sneaking one of these into a 14k power, right? bubble up the CAGI and DS, boom! Well have you noticed something, 14k power roll, don't go alone on premade - they have a DC supporting them. My logic to that is, DS is a 20' attack. If a bunch of CW / HR / SW are standing that close to each other, something sounds off in their game play! On top of that FLS is a high risk shot, easily dodge. Miss the stun, CAGI. CAGI > DS without stun ? good opponents ... don't think so! High risk, high cd - high rewards. Kill or be killed, plus because of rolling with a DC there is that fact of the DC not posting the damage. It's a high risk build, requires good sync between DC and GWF together, always and deserves it's reward. PvP currently is all about burst, and there are new(er) toys coming. If you are not doing the burst, someone else is. That's how PvP currently works.
But the key is to somehow make the sentinel put on purified, so it's a tank with intended use and gives reasonable dps.
3. Goin to rank 3 adds up to 15% more + 25% and lets say you pick up Ferocious from Destroyer paragon = 50% .
so 50% out of your max hp lets say 50k = 25k healing , that would result from healing depresion of 12.5k heal and probably damage. 1 time / 3 min. it's that OP in your looks?
Wrong. Might as well go 55k hp, why 50k Test it, and I said instigator path. See what other damage is stacking on it. 50% bonus damage and put opponent on marked. What results do you see?
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1.i was suggestin Mighty leap as a prone for PVE mostly dunno how will go out in a pvp.
2. yes , thats why i was sayn the changes on intimidation its exactly for this reason. even if you think defense it's useless , but at least it will remain a TANK stats for a TANK paragon . thats exactly first reason. it shouldn't be a tank paragon a glasscannon and do better burst than offensive paragons. thats not good. and the only way to fix it and make it viable is the way i am sayin without breakin the mechanic or makin this build useless.
3 [Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Fey Thistle.
[Combat (Self)] Your Fey Thistle deals 987 (1010) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 31 (60) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 9100 (14107) Cold Damage to you with Ice Knife.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6 deals 387 (600) Fire Damage to you with Aspect of Flames.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Steal gives 1050 (2035) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction gives 5931 (11486) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] King Of the İce 6's Barkshield Armor absorbs 1 (1) damage from your Ferocious Reaction.
[Combat (Self)] Your Ferocious Reaction deals 11234 (11486) Physical Damage to King Of the İce 6.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Must have a target.
[Combat (Self)] Your Unstoppable gives 1186 (2297) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 1193 (2310) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 2386 (2310) Hit Points to you.
so is there any huge DPS that i dont know about?
this 11k damage 1 at 3 mins it's nothing in a pvp 1vs1.
this is a newly and freshed combat log.
BTW: in pvp for instigator / destro encounters are this:
Takedown/Frontline surge and IBS
reason is that stun is influenced by other things other the control resist .
so on preview playin instigator i have the same rotation as for destroyer.
using the runner build as destroyer its out of the question for me.
Can you double check with a friend in IWD, post his DR% and your RI%? Not at home at the moment. Would be of great help! At least, we are having a civil conversation 99% of people in the forum have no clue.
TD / FLS / IBS is fine but reflects better on Destro in my opinon, even if you don't use BF. 5/5 in exec and 5/5 in recovery (5s td ^). I would even opt to go TD (5s CD) > IBS > RS (RS is auto-target, doesn't need a stun to execute).
Now Migthty Leap (prone) > IBS > TD / FLS / RS , even boosted NSF + Sure Strike(s) with trample the fallen + 3 AC, looks attractive. Maybe Mighty Leap (prone), NSF (build determination) IBS ... hybrid between an "intended" Sentinel and Destroyer.
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dont know what your friend was sayin and all, this was tested against a potted CW with 47khp .
i randomly killed him. my hp is 45.943. so yeah m8.
i heard someth of 82k but on a GF . someth about DOTS and knightvalor.
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that bugged ferocious reaction from offhand makes gwf keep on par with HR selfhealing, you can fight a HR , for minutes without even beating him or him to kill you. thats pretty crazy right.
so we need a bugged offhand to fight against a HR?
now seriously... that self healing from hr is too much in this game, to much lifestealing.
Oh yes, HR and life steal. Destroyer has no chance to be honest. A second close is Destroyer vs TR. I agree 100%. I am assuming more changes to come to these classes or some boost in Destro feat. Love playing the tree but needs gas pvp wise, BIG TIME!
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from lifesteal we get 10% at max, he gets around 30%-40% , thats not cool. why adding damage to overcome his selfhealing abilities? just nerf his self healing, cause it's unbalancing the game.
some ppl dont give a rats rear end about pvp and want more dps for pve
i know you want more dps, i got that feeling from reading your first sentence.
but lets just let "big boys" do the work, and if we dont have anything good to say we shouldn't say it.
le: NVM, you cannot be talked out of this.
giving destro more dmg wouldnt fk up PvP since the only good build GWF has for pvp is the boring sent
How 'bout that HR, huh?
The changes look to make trapper a mite bit more viable, which is a welcome change, not that anyone noticed it above the CW vs GWF vs everybody else griefing going on.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF