I personally cant wait to play the new TR.. I have seen many changes to the TR since game launch but this particular one is long overdue. However, I cant help but feel like reducing stealth is going to destroy us unless you provide us with more damage resistance while out of stealth. Cant wait to see all the "elitist's" creating TR classes and flooding the game with them (yeah).
I also hope we are more effective in PVE because currently we aren't.
Oh, and where are we going to collect our retraining tokens from? To be honest its getting ridiculously expensive to keep up with ever changing class balancing.. hope you hook us up.
faster dazing strikes will improve it's usage for pve and pvp. can't wait to test this
50% longer dodge rolls is a hit and miss thing. both hunters and wizards can stay away from us indefinitely so this could be useful, but at the same time it throws us too far from melee in pve
roll with the punches and bloody brawler could use double the stat gains (2.5% is useful, but is inferior to the tier 1s in other feat paths)
mocking gesture should give the deflect bonus after leaving stealth since we can spend 5 of those 10 seconds just running to our target
low blows might actually be superior to overrun critical. so much cc in pve that it's easy to benefit from even if you don't slot dazes but the dps will probably drop on bosses and cc immune mobs. still, it's better sustained dps overall i think.
savage blows could have it's duration ramped up to 6 seconds to be maintained easier if we dodge or get cc'ed
path of the blades might be weird. very low damage ticks but over 20 seconds
I had 48% deflect outside of itc and itc itself only lasts 5s. When it all worked I could tank some dungeon bosses. The problem is 75% deflect often translated to 25% chance of just dying.
75% deflect severity is the % reduction in damage taken. you have a 52% chance of dying to a 1-shot if you do not dodge it, activate itc, or just deft strike out of it. considering a decent recovery, it's basically 9 seconds or so of not having auto-deflects. bosses don't attack that frequently, so you should be able to go through any fight without any worry as long as you dodge.
but you don't rely on that deflect % for aoes. that's what itc and dodging is for. deflect is more valuable as a pvp stat since it increase the time you can survive while visible and ganked.
These are my suggestions by what i have tested (mostly scoundrel)
Powers
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack. Feedback: Change percentage to an absolute amount of time eg 1 second, 0.75 seconds. This way those of us who grinded out to get a full profound set can make the most of the 30% extra stealth, whereas with 15% of the whole there is little benefit.
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage. Feedback: Nice, Thankyou
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank). Feedback: Adequate
Whirlwind of Blades: No longer ignores Damage Resistance and Immunity and can be Deflected. Feedback: Dont nerf the damage resist ignore
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%). Feedback: Adequate
Courage Breaker: Now increases power by 25% (up from 10%). Feedback: More power please, TR dailies should do the HIGHEST amount of damage of all dailies
Courage Breaker: Damage increased by roughly 15%. Feedback: 25%
Deft Strike: Damage increased by roughly 15%. Feedback: Adequate with the 80% slow
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity. Feedback: Adequate
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%. Feedback: Good for exec builds, still mediocre for the other two builds
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5). Feedback: Adequate
Path of the Blade: Duration increased to 20 seconds (up from 10). Feedback: No, keep the same duration or shorter. This is effectively turning it into a really long DOT which it should not be. It should be a short, moderate to high damage spike of damage considering the long cooldown
Path of the Blade: Damage reduced by roughly 20%. Feedback: See above
Path of the Blade: Tooltip now displays the total damage this power will deal, rather than how much it deals each tick. Feedback: See above
Impact Shot: Base Damage increased by roughly 15%. Feedback: Adequate. Maybe make out of stealth shots do a short stun
Shadow Strike: Stealth: Daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 3). Feedback: Needs more damage or a stun instead of daze
Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks on players. And all the other stuff etc... Feedback: Adequate
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%. Feedback: No, leave it as is in mod4. Our stealth is already getting nerfed.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: No longer ignores Damage Immunity effects. It still ignores all sources of damage resistance and cannot be deflected. Feedback: STOP NERFING SHOCKING EXECUTION
At Wills TR needs to be rewarded for being put in a vulnerable position
Sly Flourish Feedback: Allow attack while moving and or adds attack speed buff for each hit up to 20% more attack speed( rewards brawlers for being brave)
Duelists flurry Feedback: Increase the animation speed of first two attacks
Gloaming Cut Feedback: Now appropriate as the sneaky attack
Scoundrel: A brawler who debuffs foes and can take a lot of damage.
T1
Roll with the Punches: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Deflect Chance. Feedback: You have 1/2/3/4/5% more Deflect Chance.
Bloody Brawler: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Lifesteal. Feedback: You have 1/2/3/4/5% more Lifesteal.
T2
Survivor: When your HP is below 30% you gain 2/4/6/8/10% increased deflect chance. Feedback: Add: when you drop below 30% you also gain CC immunity/break for 0.5 seconds
T3
Savage Blows: Dealing damage to foes increases your Lifesteal by .2/.4/.6/.6/1% for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. Feedback: Adequate with above changes
Scoundrel: Concussive Strikes: Now dazes the target for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds (up from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second) Feedback: Adequate
T4
Low Blows: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are affected by a Control effect. Feedback: Adequate
Mocking Gesture: You gain 2/4/6/8/10% Deflect Chance for 10 seconds after entering stealth. Feedback: Change to "After leaving stealth"
T5
Skullcracker: Every 20 seconds you gain Skullcracker. While you have Skullcracker your next Encounter Power Dazes the target for 2 seconds. While a target is affected by Skullcracker your attacks will extend the Daze on the target by .5 seconds, up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% increased damage to targets affected by Skullcracker. Feedback: Stun? May be adequate.
Still to test:
Trickster Rogue: Dodge: Rogues now roll 50% farther when dodging in combat and their dodge cost has been reduced to 30% of their stamina (down from 50%).
Trickster Rogue: First Strike: Now provides 30% bonus damage at rank 1 (down from 33%) and provides an additional 15% when ranking it up (down from 33%).
Trickster Rogue: Dazing Strike: Now always activates at the same speed as stealth and should hit targets far more consistently.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Dazing Strike: Now strikes in a large cone in front of you.
Trickster Rogue: Path of the Blade: Now hits 3 targets each tick (up from 1) and deals roughly 33% of its original damage.
Trickster Rogue: Deft Strike: Now slows targets for 80% (up from 60%) for 5 seconds (up from 3 seconds).
Trickster Rogue: Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks to 3 (instead of 5).
Trickster Rogue: Scoundrel: Skull Cracker: Now also grants 25% increased move speed.
Trickster Rogue: Scoundrel: Skull Cracker: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20).
personally, i never understood why so many rogues don't know how to survive pve without damage immunity. very few attacks can actually kill a rogue through 75% deflect severity.
Deflect _chance_ not 75% ! Deflect severity work only when deflect proc.
So, you have ~50% (depend of you deflect stats) chances die from one shot (you defense is low). If you stay close to boss, its happens. One time soulforged can save you, then you die (no stealth, no ItC).
Yes, you can dodge, run away from boss with CoS, Shadow Strike etc... Sometimes i see this play style now on live server. But this really drop you DPS. Why party need ranged TR with low dps ??? HR can successfully replace TR (what is happening now and finish after Mod5 start).
Making the Rogue roleplay more clear and distinct from the other classes
Devs, I want to THANK YOU for taking a look at the TR class, I have only one character, she is a rogue, and I really enjoy playing it; but I've been discouraged to play and even stopped for a while, and now I see a major opportunity to address a change that is heavily needed, and not just talking about specific powers or feats, the role of the TR should be made more distinct and particular, to attract people that loves a different play-style, enjoys it and decides to stay in-game just because they like playing their character.
I've noticed with joy that the Neverwinter team is making more and more attempts to align more and more to the Dungeons and Dragons playbook, giving to players that comes from that realm a place to exhort themselves and enjoy playing this wonderful game.
Below my two cents of what could make the TR more attractive to play:
Bug Rogue Speed: Rogue speed is very slow, I'm constantly overrun by GWF or DG; making us faster as we level up, or giving us a feat that increases running speed would be incredible interesting. I loved the party dynamics when asking a skillful rogue to quickly go somewhere and bring supplies, scouting or searching for a good place to battle. That should be the role of a rogue, and even maybe also for an HR; both uses lightweight armor, lightweight weapons and relies almost exclusively in dexterity and stamina. SOLUTION: Increase the running speed of the rogue as it levels up, or give more boons, feats options with running speed increase
Bug Rogue Deflect: Rogue deflection is very bad, where we should be one of the hardest to hit classes, we are constantly stunned, dazed, and hit by critical hits, and rogues should have some of the highest survivability of the party after an AoE blast, that's what DEX is for. We rely almost entirely on dexterity, and therefore there should be clear distinction on the benefits of that stat in terms of the ability to dodge, evade, jump and react. Making rogues difficult to target and to catch, that should be part of the major changes to our class. SOLUTION: I would increase the options in the campaign boons to provide more deflection severity, and increase deflection provided by feats.
Bug Rogue Stealth: The stealth should be made more realistic, stealth should be the capacity to hide and to sneak from your opponent, so you can jump back and forth in an out of the shadows, this skill is awesome, and is reflected in a series of very cool powers; but when I see the way is implemented in Neverwinter it looks more like the invisible spell that mages gives in D&D, rather that pure stealth. The stealth should be something you can do quite often, but is automatically removed once your target is aware of you, once you hit, or once they see you with a spell or through a higher wisdom check (awareness), or using a Lantern of Revelation. If rogues were worried that they will loose their stealth once they hit, then they will be more cautious to when they use their skills on a target, so they will become masters of backstabbing, and if they can recover their stealth faster, we wont be running around all the time from the battle ground with our hands between our legs, the game play will be more dynamic and interesting; rogues will become fearsome creatures but incapable of staying long in battle facing a single opponent. SOLUTION: Make stealth meter faster to recover, but add more factors that removes stealth - i.e., hit on close target, wisdom checks, spells, AoE effects, etc.
Bug Rogue First Strike: I tried the new mod and I was initially quite surprised to find that from a 20-30K first hit I could jump to 54K, but the surprise went away when I found that this not happened again, when I faced a new group of enemies. Is the first strike only available the first time you hit within the map, the dungeon or is the first time per enemy encounter (I would presume it should be set to do the latter but I did not find that applied in-game) SOLUTION: Please fix the First Strike so it happens every time you find a new group of enemies.
Bug Rogue Impossible to catch: The performance of this encounter power has been significantly disappointing, as many other players already mentioned, the ability of a rogue to change between planes and make themselves almost immune to hit for a short period of time is very important for the roleplay of the rogue. Rogues should be always build to be able to attack and defeat the casters, and being able to avoid being immobilized and killed by wizards is key to keep balance in the group. SOLUTION: Please keep the damage immunities that ITC had before, so we can build rogues anti-mages, if you want to add penalties for having the complete immunity of ITC, then you can add those extra benefits in a feat instead of giving them by default, it makes sense to improve the paragon path specific powers in the paragon path trees.
Items & Skills & Class Combos:
- Make better use of the Rogue unique end game items, such as the Cloak of Lesser Etherealess, reducing the cool-down from 53min to something useful in battle, more frequent such as 4-5 minutes.
- Add the ability to put traps and to poison the weapons, which are typical special abilities that rogues should be able to do, that could be done through special boons, items, crafting or other TR specific class abilities.
- Make partying more rewarding, with special bonuses to spells or bluffs provided by other classes, that increase the probability of a TR to become more useful and more dangerous in party. Therefore increasing the chance for players to play together and rogues to be-friend another players before going for the kill.
IMPORTANT: I, like many people I meet in-game, have a full time job, and a family position, and can only afford to have one character, please do not make changes in the game just based on PVP stats or feedback, or try to push us to play other classes. You will loose a lot of people that way that are really loyal and interested in playing the game, with the financial capability to invest in it.
kweassa, I'm glad that you like all those changes, man, really. That is just your opinion. And I said that I can manage with almost all of those changes.
But, if 90% or more of people here think in the same way that I do, at least that could means something, isn't it?
I never said a word about your playstyle and I never will. But you sound to me like I'm a monkey smashing buttons in front of the screen, w/o even thinking what I'm doing.
I just choose a playstyle, like it or not, and actually I think a lot when I'm in a dungeon run or in pvp. Changing powers from fight to fight, raising people from the floor, debuffing bosses for better party dps, control a bunch of adds meanwhile the CWs come or recharge, trying to reach a range class that is shooting us from far away, using my dodges wisely 'cos I'm in a boss fight W/o ITC slotted, knowing what mobs are inmune to CC control or not and how to fight them...
All those things meanwhile I'm trying to attack-attack-attack...'cos enemies don't die if you don't hit them, you know?
And the harder you hit or you be able to sustain your dps, faster they die.
Now tell me if it's fair that now I can't be able to drop even a single Duelist Flurry rotation in stealth, with my hard worked legendary Duelist Flurry artifact weapon that didn't fell from the sky.
If it's fair that Shocking Execution has a paragon feat related and actually do less dmg in PVE than an at-will.
If it's fair that those changes are going to ruin my playstyle and must be happy and delightful with it.
Don't know how many TRs think the same way, maybe a lot, maybe only a few. But if they think as I do, I invite them to say it here, clear and loud. STOP AT-WILL STEALTH DEPLETION, DEVS, PLEASE.
Hey, but maybe I'm only a smashing monkey writing the first think that comes to my mind.
I heard about this happening from someone ingame, couldnt log out and switch to preview to see myself. I didnt see any official word about this. It seems like its just someone assuming and its actually bugged until an official statement is made that the at will drainage is being receeded.
My problem wasnt never really about stealth drain from at wills, and more about that Gloaming Cut was the only option for any rogue attempting to use perma stealth or even semi perma stealth. Which is a paragon path exclusive at will.
Where Whisperknife is just lacking from even more angles. now.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I heard about this happening from someone ingame, couldnt log out and switch to preview to see myself. I didnt see any official word about this. It seems like its just someone assuming and its actually bugged until an official statement is made that the at will drainage is being receeded.
My problem wasnt never really about stealth drain from at wills, and more about that Gloaming Cut was the only option for any rogue attempting to use perma stealth or even semi perma stealth. Which is a paragon path exclusive at will.
Where Whisperknife is just lacking from even more angles. now.
Yes (confirmed) it is a serious bug.
And about whisper knife...
if you use the sab path you can semi perma
1) tab
2) disheartening strike (up to 3 targets)
3) vengence persuit (to refill stealth if you have sab capstone feat)
4) disheatening strike on other enemies
5) bait and switch (to refill stealth again)
6) let stealth run out and simultaneously cast shadow strike (reduces cooldowns)
7) repeat
Wicked combo with whisperknife
1) tab
2) hatefulknives
3) lashing blade
4) if the enemy is not dead they are super close to being dead.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Feedback: At-wills depleting stealth I fully understand why they would want at wills to deplete stealth but this change guts the executioner path. there are currently 3 feats that affect you while stealthed as executioner yet we can no longer use duelist flurry with them anymore. It may be good pvp burst but i couldn't care less about pvp. I am the rare PvE TR.
What we need is more passive dps increases such as a beefed up dazzling blades and deadly momentum instead of the new while stealthed abilities.
Also, with at-wills depleting stealth we have 0 defense while solo, how do you plan to fix this?
Personally I like the direction the devs are trying to move the TR with these changes but there ARE legitimate concerns with the performance of the TR in PvE as the changes stand now. Mobility is still far too low (the new dodge will be a start, but only a start), base stealth duration is now too low and it recharges too slowly, perma-stealth is still a thing, and we need more gap closers now that Stealth is effectively eliminated from that role. Plus the Whisperknife is more than ever the poor relation to MI.
I do not play TR, however I always wondered why this was not the case:
Why does the stealth have to go down all the way when you toggle it? Why not make it kind of like DCs' divine mode - go in and out of stealth as long as you have some (lose it as you are in it, but it does not have to completely drain for you to go out of stealth). Lose and replenish it based on damage taken/done (akin to GF/DC/GWF).
Also, why not more dodges like TR - I find it disheartening that HR has more responsive (player-initiated) and better dodging mechanics (maybe make TR have short dodges like HR, while in stealth they can dodge as they do now?). I think that would add to survivability and escape mechanisms.
Again, I do not play TR, but I've played with many (mostly PvE) that would greatly benefit from these changes.
Feedback: At-wills depleting stealth I fully understand why they would want at wills to deplete stealth but this change guts the executioner path. there are currently 3 feats that affect you while stealthed as executioner yet we can no longer use duelist flurry with them anymore. It may be good pvp burst but i couldn't care less about pvp. I am the rare PvE TR.
What we need is more passive dps increases such as a beefed up dazzling blades and deadly momentum instead of the new while stealthed abilities.
+1. But I didn't get it yet, why they are doing it to us in PVE.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
feedback
Gloaming cut does not take 15% of stealth meter but restores 10% of stealth if you spec into it. I thought one of the reason for the huge dps buff to tr was because "fighting perma-stealth took way to much skills?" Also getting hit by at at-will for 7k to 14k if they have first strike up. it isn't really a good balance for pvp, especially with the infinite dodge in stealth. So basically perma-stealth is now stronger than ever.
The nerf to impossible to catch was not needed.
What tends to kill my TR is not things that can be avoided with ITC or even with stealth or dodge. It is places like eLoL, eShores, even to a degree in kessells. It is when I have the back of a mob (if I can find it with the frantic movement) and whoever has aggro moves left or right and I get caught in the wide swing arc of the melee attack. There is no reaction I can make to guard against this as a melee TR. Ranged TR and ranged classes in general have no concerns for such things (although, and oddly enough, it seems the CW in melee is superior at handling such damage than the TR but this is likely due to their ability to burst AE with life steal to cover up these spikes).
Even Garakas doesn't require ITC or dodges since if you move correctly he will never hit you. The only time he poses a risk for my TR is when the person with aggro decides they want to run to the back where I will happen to be and I get caught with my own rooting attacks (and even when I pick a side to work from the seem to always want to come to where they see a TR because I guess they think it is safe there and never realize it is only safe because they are no there).
feedback
Gloaming cut does not take 15% of stealth meter but restores 10% of stealth if you spec into it. I thought one of the reason for the huge dps buff to tr was because "fighting perma-stealth took way to much skills?" Also getting hit by at at-will for 7k to 14k if they have first strike up. it isn't really a good balance for pvp, especially with the infinite dodge in stealth. So basically perma-stealth is now stronger than ever.
The nerf to impossible to catch was not needed.
One of the prime mechanics that made the previous perma/semipermas so difficult to counter was that when stuff like offensive boon proc/accidental hits/result of an active TR hunt screws up your rotation by eating away stealth and causing a premature stealth drop, you could simply ITC out of stealth at the last moment and buy 5 more seconds which usually was enough for SS to recharge.
So you say perma is stronger than ever, and yet the mechanic that makes perma so strong doesn't need a nerf?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
One of the prime mechanics that made the previous perma/semipermas so difficult to counter was that when stuff like offensive boon proc/accidental hits/result of an active TR hunt screws up your rotation by eating away stealth and causing a premature stealth drop, you could simply ITC out of stealth at the last moment and buy 5 more seconds which usually was enough for SS to recharge.
So you say perma is stronger than ever, and yet the mechanic that makes perma so strong doesn't need a nerf?
YES, their so called "immunity build". i didn't think it needed a nerf because apparently they were going to get a stealth nerf, but that is not the case. so you are right.
feedback
Gloaming cut does not take 15% of stealth meter but restores 10% of stealth if you spec into it. I thought one of the reason for the huge dps buff to tr was because "fighting perma-stealth took way to much skills?" Also getting hit by at at-will for 7k to 14k if they have first strike up. it isn't really a good balance for pvp, especially with the infinite dodge in stealth. So basically perma-stealth is now stronger than ever.
The nerf to impossible to catch was not needed.
GC is WAI. Which shows how hard it is to limit stealth when it's baked right into the class at a fundamental level. The big difference is that perma-stealth now requires you to be in melee range and repeatedly hit with a very slow at-will. This is going to be a lot easier to play against than the old style perma who could just stay out of range and plink away with CoS.
First Strike has been dialed back in the next patch. And it only affects the first hit in combat anyway. It looks spectacular but in practice, even in PvE, it's of little real use. Turns TRs into suicide bombers.
So you say perma is stronger than ever, and yet the mechanic that makes perma so strong doesn't need a nerf?
Absolutely not need ItC for perma. As usual, just no place (BoS, Shadow Stike, Path of blades). If devs want nerf perma - can just nerf BoS. W/o BoS just no time to refill stealth meter.
feedback
Gloaming cut does not take 15% of stealth meter but restores 10% of stealth if you spec into it. I thought one of the reason for the huge dps buff to tr was because "fighting perma-stealth took way to much skills?" Also getting hit by at at-will for 7k to 14k if they have first strike up. it isn't really a good balance for pvp, especially with the infinite dodge in stealth. So basically perma-stealth is now stronger than ever.
The nerf to impossible to catch was not needed.
Permanent stealth may not be gone, but they made sure it's easier to fight against, now that I think about it. GC doesn't fill stealth per hit, it does it when you kill. In PvP, that's not exactly a lot. Furthermore, GC is a melee attack... no more hurled knives from a distance not knowing where to look for whoever is targeting you. If you're being hit and can't see where from, it's either a ranged class you can see, or a stealth TR which you can see after a bit of AoE damage.
You might also run into the PoB build as stated above, but with the 33% decrease in damage per target, I doubt PoB will be too effective if you slot some PvP pots.
I don't know why but I do not get bonuses from exec tree after respec, I deal literally same ammount (or a bit less) than on live while I should be doing roughly additional 100% damage for first attack from stealth by Shadowborn
also I was sparring with 17k CW who had 30% DR and somehow my Impact shot dealt 4760 dmg from crit while it has 4388 base damage shown in tooltip (first shot from stealth for testing purposes) and perhaps I don't understand how mathematics work but with her's 30% DR and mine 17% ignored from ArmPen + Exposed Weakness 25% +15% crit sev from arterial cut + 100% from shadowborn + G.vorp severity I should do ~8776 from shadowborn only but adding all crit severity to it it would be 12k+
Can someone explain to me how does this even work?
This is a silly thing but I really believe that the dodge for the TR should be him fading into darkness and appearing few feets later almost like the Control Wizard. Also I think that it consume too much strenght.
Only a short question: Will the new changes hit the preview server this weekend?
I want do a proper testing
Edit: Couldn't wait for a short feedback Some suggestions of the current Testing: Gloaming Cut
I would appreciate if gloaming cut had a little bit shorter cast time. Something between 5-10%, it sometimes feel awkward slow (and a bit hard to time). Another request would be if gloaming cut could have a small AoE. The TR makes a big powerfull gesture with his arms but only hits one monster. It could be the small AoE Burst you are looking for.
Bug?: Gloaming Cut doesn't regenerate the stealth while killed an enemy if i was hit by an enemy. I mean, i am out of stealth, it starts regenerating, i get a hit by an enemy monster, i lose a bit of the upcoming stealthmeter and it stops to regenerate. If i kill now the monster while under "stealth depression/stop" i don't gain any stealth to my stealth meter.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
I would prefer no at will stealth drain, however if they leave it in then 15% is too much, bring it down to 5% or something as we still use stealth to get into position to use all our new feats.
tried out the scoundrel feats, but still waiting on the newer changes. i was right, preview scoundrel is stronger than live executioner since i can do 25-30k damage from just a 2 encounter combo. only downside is the 15 sec timer on skullcracker.
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callofkutuluMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 56Arc User
edited October 2014
Not liking the new changes at all... never was a perma-steath but our survivability is gone now. I am not close to BIS but I do with what I have and am a 15.5k TR. Doing IWD heroics on live I can sneak in DF / LB, ItC away CoS, SS and rinse repeat. On preview I run for my life until they catch me and turn me into a TR smudge.
I don't want to have to grind out other toons to play, I friggin hate grinding. GWF, SW, HR easy mode... I don't want easy mode, I want fun. I want to feel the power of the character and that after a Heroic, or Skirmish or dungeon that the party benefited by my being there and that the DPS we brought was not to be missed.
Maybe you could make it so that the traps in the dungeon cant be detected or avoided by anyone other than a TR and all resulted in insta-death, also the end chests can't be opened without first clearing the trap. Then TR might be useful to have along. It is all just very depressing as a TR now. I clearly picked the wrong class to invest my time in, same **** mistake as playing a warlock in wow.
tried out the scoundrel feats, but still waiting on the newer changes. i was right, preview scoundrel is stronger than live executioner since i can do 25-30k damage from just a 2 encounter combo. only downside is the 15 sec timer on skullcracker.
i dont think the 15 sec cooldowns on capstones are in effect yet, infact i think they are being updated right now
Why not rescind the extra dodge distance, but give rogues a 2 second window in which they can freely second dodge without stamina cost, and have that second dodge be that extra distance. That way a rogue could dodge out and dodge back in from a red AE with the same cost, and if the extra dodge is used to dodge away twice, well then that is what you the dev wanted for distance in the first place. No harm no foul.
Comments
I also hope we are more effective in PVE because currently we aren't.
Oh, and where are we going to collect our retraining tokens from? To be honest its getting ridiculously expensive to keep up with ever changing class balancing.. hope you hook us up.
75% deflect severity is the % reduction in damage taken. you have a 52% chance of dying to a 1-shot if you do not dodge it, activate itc, or just deft strike out of it. considering a decent recovery, it's basically 9 seconds or so of not having auto-deflects. bosses don't attack that frequently, so you should be able to go through any fight without any worry as long as you dodge.
but you don't rely on that deflect % for aoes. that's what itc and dodging is for. deflect is more valuable as a pvp stat since it increase the time you can survive while visible and ganked.
Powers
Stealth: Using At Wills while Stealthed now drains 15% of your Stealth Meter per attack.
Feedback: Change percentage to an absolute amount of time eg 1 second, 0.75 seconds. This way those of us who grinded out to get a full profound set can make the most of the 30% extra stealth, whereas with 15% of the whole there is little benefit.
Stealth: Now also grants 100% Critical Chance in addition to Combat Advantage.
Feedback: Nice, Thankyou
First Strike: Damage bonus increased to 33% per rank (up from 5% per rank).
Feedback: Adequate
Whirlwind of Blades: No longer ignores Damage Resistance and Immunity and can be Deflected.
Feedback: Dont nerf the damage resist ignore
Whirlwind of Blades: Now increases your Power by 20% per target hit (up from 10%).
Feedback: Adequate
Courage Breaker: Now increases power by 25% (up from 10%).
Feedback: More power please, TR dailies should do the HIGHEST amount of damage of all dailies
Courage Breaker: Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Feedback: 25%
Deft Strike: Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Feedback: Adequate with the 80% slow
Lashing Blade: Stealth: Now strikes with 50% increased Critical Severity.
Feedback: Adequate
Blitz: Damage increased by roughly 20%.
Feedback: Good for exec builds, still mediocre for the other two builds
Blitz: Maximum number of targets increased to 7 (up from 5).
Feedback: Adequate
Path of the Blade: Duration increased to 20 seconds (up from 10).
Feedback: No, keep the same duration or shorter. This is effectively turning it into a really long DOT which it should not be. It should be a short, moderate to high damage spike of damage considering the long cooldown
Path of the Blade: Damage reduced by roughly 20%.
Feedback: See above
Path of the Blade: Tooltip now displays the total damage this power will deal, rather than how much it deals each tick.
Feedback: See above
Impact Shot: Base Damage increased by roughly 15%.
Feedback: Adequate. Maybe make out of stealth shots do a short stun
Shadow Strike: Stealth: Daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 3).
Feedback: Needs more damage or a stun instead of daze
Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks on players. And all the other stuff etc...
Feedback: Adequate
Master Infiltrator: Impossible to Catch: Stealth: This power no longer makes you immune to all damage but now also increases your damage resistance by 50%.
Feedback: No, leave it as is in mod4. Our stealth is already getting nerfed.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: No longer ignores Damage Immunity effects. It still ignores all sources of damage resistance and cannot be deflected.
Feedback: STOP NERFING SHOCKING EXECUTION
At Wills
TR needs to be rewarded for being put in a vulnerable position
Sly Flourish
Feedback: Allow attack while moving and or adds attack speed buff for each hit up to 20% more attack speed( rewards brawlers for being brave)
Duelists flurry
Feedback: Increase the animation speed of first two attacks
Gloaming Cut
Feedback: Now appropriate as the sneaky attack
Scoundrel: A brawler who debuffs foes and can take a lot of damage.
T1
Roll with the Punches: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Deflect Chance.
Feedback: You have 1/2/3/4/5% more Deflect Chance.
Bloody Brawler: You have .5/1/1.5/2/2.5% more Lifesteal.
Feedback: You have 1/2/3/4/5% more Lifesteal.
T2
Survivor: When your HP is below 30% you gain 2/4/6/8/10% increased deflect chance.
Feedback: Add: when you drop below 30% you also gain CC immunity/break for 0.5 seconds
T3
Savage Blows: Dealing damage to foes increases your Lifesteal by .2/.4/.6/.6/1% for 3 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
Feedback: Adequate with above changes
Scoundrel: Concussive Strikes: Now dazes the target for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds (up from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second)
Feedback: Adequate
T4
Low Blows: You deal 5/10/15/20/25% more damage to foes who are affected by a Control effect.
Feedback: Adequate
Mocking Gesture: You gain 2/4/6/8/10% Deflect Chance for 10 seconds after entering stealth.
Feedback: Change to "After leaving stealth"
T5
Skullcracker: Every 20 seconds you gain Skullcracker. While you have Skullcracker your next Encounter Power Dazes the target for 2 seconds. While a target is affected by Skullcracker your attacks will extend the Daze on the target by .5 seconds, up to a maximum of 2 additional seconds. You deal 25% increased damage to targets affected by Skullcracker.
Feedback: Stun? May be adequate.
Still to test:
Trickster Rogue: Dodge: Rogues now roll 50% farther when dodging in combat and their dodge cost has been reduced to 30% of their stamina (down from 50%).
Trickster Rogue: First Strike: Now provides 30% bonus damage at rank 1 (down from 33%) and provides an additional 15% when ranking it up (down from 33%).
Trickster Rogue: Dazing Strike: Now always activates at the same speed as stealth and should hit targets far more consistently.
Trickster Rogue: Stealth: Dazing Strike: Now strikes in a large cone in front of you.
Trickster Rogue: Path of the Blade: Now hits 3 targets each tick (up from 1) and deals roughly 33% of its original damage.
Trickster Rogue: Deft Strike: Now slows targets for 80% (up from 60%) for 5 seconds (up from 3 seconds).
Trickster Rogue: Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks to 3 (instead of 5).
Trickster Rogue: Scoundrel: Skull Cracker: Now also grants 25% increased move speed.
Trickster Rogue: Scoundrel: Skull Cracker: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20).
After trying all changes in preview, I feel I can handle with all but one: at- will stealth depletion.
It was a bad idea in the past and still it is.
Almost all TRs don't like it and we never asked for.
Why are you doing this to us? Still don't get it.
So, TRs community, let's shout it clear and loud, say it with me one more time: Devs, please, STOP AT-WILL STEALTH DEPLETION.
Deflect _chance_ not 75% ! Deflect severity work only when deflect proc.
So, you have ~50% (depend of you deflect stats) chances die from one shot (you defense is low). If you stay close to boss, its happens. One time soulforged can save you, then you die (no stealth, no ItC).
Yes, you can dodge, run away from boss with CoS, Shadow Strike etc... Sometimes i see this play style now on live server. But this really drop you DPS. Why party need ranged TR with low dps ??? HR can successfully replace TR (what is happening now and finish after Mod5 start).
Diana (15,4 DC)
BigHalf (15,5 GF)
Devs, I want to THANK YOU for taking a look at the TR class, I have only one character, she is a rogue, and I really enjoy playing it; but I've been discouraged to play and even stopped for a while, and now I see a major opportunity to address a change that is heavily needed, and not just talking about specific powers or feats, the role of the TR should be made more distinct and particular, to attract people that loves a different play-style, enjoys it and decides to stay in-game just because they like playing their character.
I've noticed with joy that the Neverwinter team is making more and more attempts to align more and more to the Dungeons and Dragons playbook, giving to players that comes from that realm a place to exhort themselves and enjoy playing this wonderful game.
Below my two cents of what could make the TR more attractive to play:
Bug Rogue Speed: Rogue speed is very slow, I'm constantly overrun by GWF or DG; making us faster as we level up, or giving us a feat that increases running speed would be incredible interesting. I loved the party dynamics when asking a skillful rogue to quickly go somewhere and bring supplies, scouting or searching for a good place to battle. That should be the role of a rogue, and even maybe also for an HR; both uses lightweight armor, lightweight weapons and relies almost exclusively in dexterity and stamina.
SOLUTION: Increase the running speed of the rogue as it levels up, or give more boons, feats options with running speed increase
Bug Rogue Deflect: Rogue deflection is very bad, where we should be one of the hardest to hit classes, we are constantly stunned, dazed, and hit by critical hits, and rogues should have some of the highest survivability of the party after an AoE blast, that's what DEX is for. We rely almost entirely on dexterity, and therefore there should be clear distinction on the benefits of that stat in terms of the ability to dodge, evade, jump and react. Making rogues difficult to target and to catch, that should be part of the major changes to our class.
SOLUTION: I would increase the options in the campaign boons to provide more deflection severity, and increase deflection provided by feats.
Bug Rogue Stealth: The stealth should be made more realistic, stealth should be the capacity to hide and to sneak from your opponent, so you can jump back and forth in an out of the shadows, this skill is awesome, and is reflected in a series of very cool powers; but when I see the way is implemented in Neverwinter it looks more like the invisible spell that mages gives in D&D, rather that pure stealth. The stealth should be something you can do quite often, but is automatically removed once your target is aware of you, once you hit, or once they see you with a spell or through a higher wisdom check (awareness), or using a Lantern of Revelation. If rogues were worried that they will loose their stealth once they hit, then they will be more cautious to when they use their skills on a target, so they will become masters of backstabbing, and if they can recover their stealth faster, we wont be running around all the time from the battle ground with our hands between our legs, the game play will be more dynamic and interesting; rogues will become fearsome creatures but incapable of staying long in battle facing a single opponent.
SOLUTION: Make stealth meter faster to recover, but add more factors that removes stealth - i.e., hit on close target, wisdom checks, spells, AoE effects, etc.
Bug Rogue First Strike: I tried the new mod and I was initially quite surprised to find that from a 20-30K first hit I could jump to 54K, but the surprise went away when I found that this not happened again, when I faced a new group of enemies. Is the first strike only available the first time you hit within the map, the dungeon or is the first time per enemy encounter (I would presume it should be set to do the latter but I did not find that applied in-game)
SOLUTION: Please fix the First Strike so it happens every time you find a new group of enemies.
Bug Rogue Impossible to catch: The performance of this encounter power has been significantly disappointing, as many other players already mentioned, the ability of a rogue to change between planes and make themselves almost immune to hit for a short period of time is very important for the roleplay of the rogue. Rogues should be always build to be able to attack and defeat the casters, and being able to avoid being immobilized and killed by wizards is key to keep balance in the group.
SOLUTION: Please keep the damage immunities that ITC had before, so we can build rogues anti-mages, if you want to add penalties for having the complete immunity of ITC, then you can add those extra benefits in a feat instead of giving them by default, it makes sense to improve the paragon path specific powers in the paragon path trees.
Items & Skills & Class Combos:
- Make better use of the Rogue unique end game items, such as the Cloak of Lesser Etherealess, reducing the cool-down from 53min to something useful in battle, more frequent such as 4-5 minutes.
- Add the ability to put traps and to poison the weapons, which are typical special abilities that rogues should be able to do, that could be done through special boons, items, crafting or other TR specific class abilities.
- Make partying more rewarding, with special bonuses to spells or bluffs provided by other classes, that increase the probability of a TR to become more useful and more dangerous in party. Therefore increasing the chance for players to play together and rogues to be-friend another players before going for the kill.
IMPORTANT: I, like many people I meet in-game, have a full time job, and a family position, and can only afford to have one character, please do not make changes in the game just based on PVP stats or feedback, or try to push us to play other classes. You will loose a lot of people that way that are really loyal and interested in playing the game, with the financial capability to invest in it.
But, if 90% or more of people here think in the same way that I do, at least that could means something, isn't it?
I never said a word about your playstyle and I never will. But you sound to me like I'm a monkey smashing buttons in front of the screen, w/o even thinking what I'm doing.
I just choose a playstyle, like it or not, and actually I think a lot when I'm in a dungeon run or in pvp. Changing powers from fight to fight, raising people from the floor, debuffing bosses for better party dps, control a bunch of adds meanwhile the CWs come or recharge, trying to reach a range class that is shooting us from far away, using my dodges wisely 'cos I'm in a boss fight W/o ITC slotted, knowing what mobs are inmune to CC control or not and how to fight them...
All those things meanwhile I'm trying to attack-attack-attack...'cos enemies don't die if you don't hit them, you know?
And the harder you hit or you be able to sustain your dps, faster they die.
Now tell me if it's fair that now I can't be able to drop even a single Duelist Flurry rotation in stealth, with my hard worked legendary Duelist Flurry artifact weapon that didn't fell from the sky.
If it's fair that Shocking Execution has a paragon feat related and actually do less dmg in PVE than an at-will.
If it's fair that those changes are going to ruin my playstyle and must be happy and delightful with it.
Don't know how many TRs think the same way, maybe a lot, maybe only a few. But if they think as I do, I invite them to say it here, clear and loud. STOP AT-WILL STEALTH DEPLETION, DEVS, PLEASE.
Hey, but maybe I'm only a smashing monkey writing the first think that comes to my mind.
Keiser.
My problem wasnt never really about stealth drain from at wills, and more about that Gloaming Cut was the only option for any rogue attempting to use perma stealth or even semi perma stealth. Which is a paragon path exclusive at will.
Where Whisperknife is just lacking from even more angles. now.
Yes (confirmed) it is a serious bug.
And about whisper knife...
if you use the sab path you can semi perma
1) tab
2) disheartening strike (up to 3 targets)
3) vengence persuit (to refill stealth if you have sab capstone feat)
4) disheatening strike on other enemies
5) bait and switch (to refill stealth again)
6) let stealth run out and simultaneously cast shadow strike (reduces cooldowns)
7) repeat
Wicked combo with whisperknife
1) tab
2) hatefulknives
3) lashing blade
4) if the enemy is not dead they are super close to being dead.
I fully understand why they would want at wills to deplete stealth but this change guts the executioner path. there are currently 3 feats that affect you while stealthed as executioner yet we can no longer use duelist flurry with them anymore. It may be good pvp burst but i couldn't care less about pvp. I am the rare PvE TR.
What we need is more passive dps increases such as a beefed up dazzling blades and deadly momentum instead of the new while stealthed abilities.
Also, with at-wills depleting stealth we have 0 defense while solo, how do you plan to fix this?
I do not play TR, however I always wondered why this was not the case:
Why does the stealth have to go down all the way when you toggle it? Why not make it kind of like DCs' divine mode - go in and out of stealth as long as you have some (lose it as you are in it, but it does not have to completely drain for you to go out of stealth). Lose and replenish it based on damage taken/done (akin to GF/DC/GWF).
Also, why not more dodges like TR - I find it disheartening that HR has more responsive (player-initiated) and better dodging mechanics (maybe make TR have short dodges like HR, while in stealth they can dodge as they do now?). I think that would add to survivability and escape mechanisms.
Again, I do not play TR, but I've played with many (mostly PvE) that would greatly benefit from these changes.
+1. But I didn't get it yet, why they are doing it to us in PVE.
Gloaming cut does not take 15% of stealth meter but restores 10% of stealth if you spec into it. I thought one of the reason for the huge dps buff to tr was because "fighting perma-stealth took way to much skills?" Also getting hit by at at-will for 7k to 14k if they have first strike up. it isn't really a good balance for pvp, especially with the infinite dodge in stealth. So basically perma-stealth is now stronger than ever.
The nerf to impossible to catch was not needed.
Even Garakas doesn't require ITC or dodges since if you move correctly he will never hit you. The only time he poses a risk for my TR is when the person with aggro decides they want to run to the back where I will happen to be and I get caught with my own rooting attacks (and even when I pick a side to work from the seem to always want to come to where they see a TR because I guess they think it is safe there and never realize it is only safe because they are no there).
One of the prime mechanics that made the previous perma/semipermas so difficult to counter was that when stuff like offensive boon proc/accidental hits/result of an active TR hunt screws up your rotation by eating away stealth and causing a premature stealth drop, you could simply ITC out of stealth at the last moment and buy 5 more seconds which usually was enough for SS to recharge.
So you say perma is stronger than ever, and yet the mechanic that makes perma so strong doesn't need a nerf?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
YES, their so called "immunity build". i didn't think it needed a nerf because apparently they were going to get a stealth nerf, but that is not the case. so you are right.
First Strike has been dialed back in the next patch. And it only affects the first hit in combat anyway. It looks spectacular but in practice, even in PvE, it's of little real use. Turns TRs into suicide bombers.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If devs want nerf perma - can just nerf BoS. W/o BoS just no time to refill stealth meter.
Diana (15,4 DC)
BigHalf (15,5 GF)
Permanent stealth may not be gone, but they made sure it's easier to fight against, now that I think about it. GC doesn't fill stealth per hit, it does it when you kill. In PvP, that's not exactly a lot. Furthermore, GC is a melee attack... no more hurled knives from a distance not knowing where to look for whoever is targeting you. If you're being hit and can't see where from, it's either a ranged class you can see, or a stealth TR which you can see after a bit of AoE damage.
You might also run into the PoB build as stated above, but with the 33% decrease in damage per target, I doubt PoB will be too effective if you slot some PvP pots.
also I was sparring with 17k CW who had 30% DR and somehow my Impact shot dealt 4760 dmg from crit while it has 4388 base damage shown in tooltip (first shot from stealth for testing purposes) and perhaps I don't understand how mathematics work but with her's 30% DR and mine 17% ignored from ArmPen + Exposed Weakness 25% +15% crit sev from arterial cut + 100% from shadowborn + G.vorp severity I should do ~8776 from shadowborn only but adding all crit severity to it it would be 12k+
Can someone explain to me how does this even work?
~ Adam | Trickster Rogue | Master Infiltrator Saboteur
~ Essence | Hunter Ranger | Pathfinder Trapper
~ Veyl | Scourge Warlock | Soulbinder Fury
~ Abel | Trickster Rogue | Master Infiltrator Executioner
Waiting for DRUID and MONK!
I want do a proper testing
Edit: Couldn't wait for a short feedback
Some suggestions of the current Testing: Gloaming Cut
I would appreciate if gloaming cut had a little bit shorter cast time. Something between 5-10%, it sometimes feel awkward slow (and a bit hard to time). Another request would be if gloaming cut could have a small AoE. The TR makes a big powerfull gesture with his arms but only hits one monster. It could be the small AoE Burst you are looking for.
Bug?: Gloaming Cut doesn't regenerate the stealth while killed an enemy if i was hit by an enemy. I mean, i am out of stealth, it starts regenerating, i get a hit by an enemy monster, i lose a bit of the upcoming stealthmeter and it stops to regenerate. If i kill now the monster while under "stealth depression/stop" i don't gain any stealth to my stealth meter.
I don't want to have to grind out other toons to play, I friggin hate grinding. GWF, SW, HR easy mode... I don't want easy mode, I want fun. I want to feel the power of the character and that after a Heroic, or Skirmish or dungeon that the party benefited by my being there and that the DPS we brought was not to be missed.
Maybe you could make it so that the traps in the dungeon cant be detected or avoided by anyone other than a TR and all resulted in insta-death, also the end chests can't be opened without first clearing the trap. Then TR might be useful to have along. It is all just very depressing as a TR now. I clearly picked the wrong class to invest my time in, same **** mistake as playing a warlock in wow.
i dont think the 15 sec cooldowns on capstones are in effect yet, infact i think they are being updated right now
scoundrel is since i have to wait for skullcracker to return after i use my 1st encounter
Why not rescind the extra dodge distance, but give rogues a 2 second window in which they can freely second dodge without stamina cost, and have that second dodge be that extra distance. That way a rogue could dodge out and dodge back in from a red AE with the same cost, and if the extra dodge is used to dodge away twice, well then that is what you the dev wanted for distance in the first place. No harm no foul.