So.. apart from the stealth deplete.... This is a very tough choice, ugh. All the 3 feat trees are good.
My burst was reduced since the First Strike nerf... might not be as effective as I thought it would be. But Exec still 1-shots squishies and Lashing takes away Half of geared player's health. Need to win a way to survive out of stealth with Exec.
Scoundrel is awesome.. I LOVE the new dazing strike and the Scoundrel's durability. And the chain CC's are fun.
But it's Scoundrel's tankiness that's impressing me. I let a geared GWF unleash a full rotation on me and it deflected everything, didn't even get below 90%. And when below 40%, a GF's Anvil of Doom doesn't 1-shot you like it usually does.
And Saboteur is the stealth tree and is pretty lethal., pretty sure there will be new meta builds once mod5 hits.
This choice is so hard lol.
IKR? Like I've said before, the Dazing Strike alone makes me so happy.
It's finally a long-awaited CC for TRs that has some duration, as well as activates fast enough to stop a slow-activating power before even it lands. Too bad it's not a stun, but even still... the new DS rocks.
Now.. if only they can cater to the WK paragon a little bit more....
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
- Charisma does basically nothing. I tried the exact same Saboteur build with 20 STR/23 DEX/20 CHA and my usual 20/27/16 and there was seriously no meaningful difference. The DEX/STR actually came out ahead in damage by about 150k.
charisma seems to work for me but it's probably near impossible to detect a 4% difference on attacks since that can easily be hidden in a low damage roll. instead, i just calc the total which is like max base at-will x 15% base CA x 9% charisma (option x 10% CA from draconic set). comes out very close to the maximum damage i can throw out for a non-critical.
Hey devs, I love the new changes to dodge and some of the abilities but I have some major concerns regarding the executioner tree!
Arterial Cut: I feel like this feat doesn't belong in the execution tree because we have nothing to keep us in stealth and were a damage focused tree which means we aren't relying on stealth to give us our damage!
Grim Pleasure: I tested this feat and finds it only gives about a 1% damage boost so perhaps change it to something like "The rogue gets 50% of movement as power" This would be a much needed stat boost that could get us up to par in the evil Gear Score rating and its super unique which I thinks is awesome. I do like this feat and I don't mind if it changes or not but I certainly hold my ground that one of our feats needs to give us power as a percentage of another stat!
Vicious Pursuit: I really like this but since it doesn't stack on one target it seems like its not that rewarding to just focus down a boss in a fight. I think it would be awesome if it could be like a 20% chance of proc and it stacks 3 times.
Twister Grin: I really liked this feat at first but after testing it using combat tracker I found that its only giving me a 1% damage boost in Caverns of Karrundrax. Which makes it a very useless feat. I would suggest replacing this feat with a changed Overrun Critical/Critical Teamwork or a flat critical severity boost.
Last Moments: I like this feat a lot and I think its awesome that it gets a massive boost when in stealth because it can be used for sweet combos but I think that perhaps it also needs to gain a damage boost when in stealth because increasing the threshold is only going to be useful 30% of the time.
Exposed Weakness: I do not like the feat at all, my TR is only a 14k TR so he's not that amazing and he already has 22% armor penetration which means this feat would be useless for him. On top of that I feel like it wouldn't get used much at all, It could have synergy with twisted grin and shadow of demise but like I said, I really don't need the buff. I would love to see this feat be reverted back to Deadly Momentum.
Shadow Born: I like this feat and it has great synergy with Last moments and Shadow of Demise, don't see a need for change.
Shadow of Demise: I enjoy this feat and I think its got awesome synergy with many of the feats and to me it reflects what my TR pre mod 5 has always been about, deal good damage while out of stealth and then when in stealth deal large amounts of burst damage, I love it.
TL;DR
Change Arterial Cut because it doesn't boost our damage by much and is far more useful for saboteur.
Make Vicious Pursuit more rewarding when we are attacking a single target
Change Twisted Grin because it doesn't give a noticeable damage boost (1%)
Remove Exposed Weakness because TRs get a large amount of armor penetration from gear that it really makes no difference.
Bring back Deadly Momentum, this skill made hitting a single target feel extremely rewarding.
Give us something later in the tree that gives us a flat critical severity boost
Bring back Critical Teamwork or even Overrun Critical but scaled down
Add a gear score boost to any of the first feats, e.g. Gain power equal to 50% of movement
+1. And put down stealth depletion at least to 3-5%, if not removed for good.
I don't know why you're asking for more DPS... I'm running a 17.5k TR. Ran SP with GWF, TR, DC and equally geared CW. Everyone keeps saying that SP was made for CW, yet I managed to deal more pain than him, and his skills aren't bad at all. My current DPS on live ranges from 10k to 12k on training dummies, with no buffs or debuffs around. That's a lot if you ask me...
Now with what I hear about DS and GC, I'm thinking my DPS is gonna go beyond 15k using DF as the main at-will (keeping the legendary DF wep), CG as a secondary one to use whenever stealth is up, DS for the dazes and AoE, Blitz for more AoE and LB for single powerful mobs and bosses. Combined with the usual LA for bosses and WoB for mobs, I think I'm gonna be singing a hail-Mary (agnostic, by the way). There's also plenty of survivirability given by the dazes from DS (and smoke bomb, if DS is not enough) plus all the CC your party members can do... GC may be boring, but I'll mainly be using it as a filler attack in stealth before I land Blitz or LB, after which it's DF once more. Almost none of the current encounters last longer than this one (MAYBE 2) rotaion.
(I have to add this in case I'll be sent away to post on my main class: TR is my main class. It's the char I'm striving to max ever since I began playing NW)
I spec go to CN today, on live server, with enabled combat parcer.
Damage from Duelist Flurry Bleed all fight - 36%, avg crit 53%. https://www.dropbox.com/s/672ro3yklqxeqx1/CN%20%20tr%20dmg%20all.png?dl=0
Last boss damage Duelist Flurry Bleed - 50% of all my dmg, with avg crit 55%. https://www.dropbox.com/s/na3y7vs7hy1i323/CN%20%20tr%20dmg.png?dl=0
It's w/o Vorpal (LPF equilpped). But most time i in stealth (Bleed proc with Combat Advantage), some time - in ItC. And practically all last boss fight i stay close to Azrael.
After this patch - a just don't know...
Hi,
All in all Im very happy about the upcoming changes.
Finally we TRs are able to fight every class. Thanks for that!
BUT
dear devs, PLS FIX the following BUGS since they stop me from further training on ptr:
- "Shadow Strike" procs "One with the Shadows" (nonsense)
- "Path of Blades" doesnt apply weapon enchantments
- "Path of Blades" doesnt proc "One with the Shadows" (maybe intended? Would make sense, but if its intended, tell us)
- Still no stamina drain while dodging in stealth
Moreover: One more dodge is okay, but 2 more would be more reasonable. Since our whole Stealth-Mechanic is overworked, we need even more mobility to survive. ---> Id love to see 4 short-distanced dodges, with a shorter animation, so we can dodge fast and stay in attacking range. It might be nice for pve to dodge to the end of the world, but for pvp we would dodge away from the node, which means points for the enemy every time we dodge and thats really not what we want huh ?
Greetings RAPTOR Moritus
RAPTOR Moritus - PVP TR -
"The worst that could happen to us is that we have to die, and since that is already our unalterable fate, we are free; those who have lost everything no longer have anything to fear." - Don Juan
I did tested all the things. Gentleman crush the last changes were great. Scoundrel now works like a charm.
Goodjob.
Now please: rework sneak attack, dont let shadow strike proc one with the shadows and add a dot to smoke bomb ♥
SUGGESTION: To continue to promote at will using like cloud of steal, sly fluorish you could propose to add a BONUS out of stealth to one of those at will based on weapon artifact choice.
It can seem weird, balance to class through balance to items but still compensation.
Dude, you are so clueless. *facepalm* Do you even play TR ?
Finally we TRs can kill everybody.
RAPTOR Moritus - PVP TR -
"The worst that could happen to us is that we have to die, and since that is already our unalterable fate, we are free; those who have lost everything no longer have anything to fear." - Don Juan
Feedback
Gloaming cut-increase range of that skill to that we can't be seen while using this power. Now each time we use gloaming cut we get stun or daze cause range is too low.
Duelist flurry-since it deplete stealth and out of stealth is useless cause everyone will stun TR during 2 first hits i think that second hit should be terminated. So that we use first hit then jump and then sequence of duelist flurry. Without first hit i think we would not be able to make that jump-chase victims.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
From yestarday tests I've seen that dodge 30% stamina not working anyway. So i hope you will fix it.
Also don't forget about fixing itc, shadow strike and impact shot which dmg is still useless.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
First the encounter power:
i have the feeling DAZING STRIKE is now a bit overpowered. The reason is, if i am using it with stealth i deal 15-30K Hits in a prone. Most of the mob groups i was testing at dread ring was one hitted or two hitted (the second hit was easy because they were stunned) [Using Executioneer Path]. Now imagine this power in PvP. You have the enemy team capturing the spot, you go in stealth run to the spot and one hit the CWs or characters with low defense and life and stunn them. For me it seems a bit toooooo much.
PATH OF BLADE seems now okay for me. It's not a big AoE Damage increase but i can have him up nearly every time because of the activation time, which is nice.
WICKED REMINDER has a nice damage and i really like the changes that we need less stacks to get our damage for the group boosted.BUG: Wicked Reminder activates sometimes several times without my command. Seems some kind of issue if my characters moves forwards.
I tried now some combinations of GLOAMING CUT and DUELIST FLURRY. The reason i used GLOAMING CUT was it doesn't reduce stealth and i assumed it would become the new TR PvE At-Will-Skill. But i was wrong.
If i only use Gloaming Cut for 1 Minute while stealthed and unstealhed i do like 450.000 Damage in 1 Minute. If i use Duelist Flurry i get around 950.000 Damage. If i try to use Gloaming Cut while stealthed and Duelist Flurry while unstealthed i get only 850.000 Damage in 1 Minute.
ACT shows me if i go in stealth my DPS drops because the DPS of Gloaming Cut is lower then Duelist Flurry (and now imagine how many Buffs i get with the Executioneer Feats and it's still lower then the Bleeding of Duelist Flurry and Duelist Flurry itself)
To give you a reference: At the current settings on the live Server i deal around 890.000 Damage in 1 Minute. Which means i deal insignificantly more damage.
We come to the Feats. I only will recommend Executioneer Feats in this Feedback Post.
T1: Arterial Cut = I would like if that stays ingame. +15% Critical Severity is nice and usefull for an TR.
T1: Grim Pleasure = Useless Feat. If i have 10.000 Power i get additional 500 Power (+5%). 500 Power are only 3% or less damage increase. And with 10.000 Power i am on the upper/end scale of the power an TR can have. So please kick it out.
T2: Vicious Pursuit = Don't know what i should say. It's simply 5% more damage and more usefull as Grim Pleasure. Can stay in but i would like that it would stack up 3 times. Which means TR deals more damage on Bosses.
T3: Twisted Grin = Would be a nice feat in use of GLOAMING CUT. And it is. I tried it on some groups in the dread ring and IF Twisted Grin is activated it deals nice damage while stealthed (+25% more damage). But i would like if it is an 6 Second Buff for every attack in 6 Seconds and not a one timer.
T3: Last Moments: Seems okay for me.
T4: Exposed Weakness = Nice Bonus while stealthed. Can only proper use while using GLOAMING CUT because of stealth depression. Which means you should power up Gloaming Cut a bit.
T4: Shadowborn = Sounds nice. But is somekind of useless. If i enter stealth i get +100% Power for my next attack. Which means: Hit. If i use Gloaming Cut i get like ~15.000 Damage (normal damage would ~12.000). Which means it a waste of statpoints.
T5: Shadow Of Demise: Nice Feat. Nothing wrong with it.
I will continue and testing the other feeds. Have Fun, Stay Tuned.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
First the encounter power:
i have the feeling DAZING STRIKE is now a bit overpowered. The reason is, if i am using it with stealth i deal 15-30K Hits in a prone. Most of the mob groups i was testing at dread ring was one hitted or two hitted (the second hit was easy because they were stunned) [Using Executioneer Path]. Now imagine this power in PvP. You have the enemy team capturing the spot, you go in stealth run to the spot and one hit the CWs or characters with low defense and life and stunn them. For me it seems a bit toooooo much.
PATH OF BLADE seems now okay for me. It's not a big AoE Damage increase but i can have him up nearly every time because of the activation time, which is nice.
WICKED REMINDER has a nice damage and i really like the changes that we need less stacks to get our damage for the group boosted.BUG: Wicked Reminder activates sometimes several times without my command. Seems some kind of issue if my characters moves forwards.
I tried now some combinations of GLOAMING CUT and DUELIST FLURRY. The reason i used GLOAMING CUT was it doesn't reduce stealth and i assumed it would become the new TR PvE At-Will-Skill. But i was wrong.
If i only use Gloaming Cut for 1 Minute while stealthed and unstealhed i do like 450.000 Damage in 1 Minute. If i use Duelist Flurry i get around 950.000 Damage. If i try to use Gloaming Cut while stealthed and Duelist Flurry while unstealthed i get only 850.000 Damage in 1 Minute.
ACT shows me if i go in stealth my DPS drops because the DPS of Gloaming Cut is lower then Duelist Flurry (and now imagine how many Buffs i get with the Executioneer Feats and it's still lower then the Bleeding of Duelist Flurry and Duelist Flurry itself)
To give you a reference: At the current settings on the live Server i deal around 890.000 Damage in 1 Minute. Which means i deal insignificantly more damage.
We come to the Feats. I only will recommend Executioneer Feats in this Feedback Post.
T1: Arterial Cut = I would like if that stays ingame. +15% Critical Severity is nice and usefull for an TR.
T1: Grim Pleasure = Useless Feat. If i have 10.000 Power i get additional 500 Power (+5%). 500 Power are only 3% or less damage increase. And with 10.000 Power i am on the upper/end scale of the power an TR can have. So please kick it out.
T2: Vicious Pursuit = Don't know what i should say. It's simply 5% more damage and more usefull as Grim Pleasure. Can stay in but i would like that it would stack up 3 times. Which means TR deals more damage on Bosses.
T3: Twisted Grin = Would be a nice feat in use of GLOAMING CUT. And it is. I tried it on some groups in the dread ring and IF Twisted Grin is activated it deals nice damage while stealthed (+25% more damage). But i would like if it is an 6 Second Buff for every attack in 6 Seconds and not a one timer.
T3: Last Moments: Seems okay for me.
T4: Exposed Weakness = Nice Bonus while stealthed. Can only proper use while using GLOAMING CUT because of stealth depression. Which means you should power up Gloaming Cut a bit.
T4: Shadowborn = Sounds nice. But is somekind of useless. If i enter stealth i get +100% Power for my next attack. Which means: Hit. If i use Gloaming Cut i get like ~15.000 Damage (normal damage would ~12.000). Which means it a waste of statpoints.
T5: Shadow Of Demise: Nice Feat. Nothing wrong with it.
I will continue and testing the other feeds. Have Fun, Stay Tuned.
I agree, with lot of your feedback. But keep in mind that gloaming Cut makes more damage as target health diminishes. So it does not need buff, maybe only a bit faster animation speed.
Shadowborn makes no sense with atwill, but try it with Blitz or or Lashing Blade, and you will feel the difference.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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fangredwaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15Arc User
edited October 2014
Serious Issues of TR class as of testing today:
1- TR cannot deal with ranged class currently - we need every second of the 5 second stealth to get our damage through
2- TR is close combat but cannot survive long enough to deal damage - need enough Deflect or Defense to be able to last.
3- TR class need more dodges or they cannot deal with AoE in situations like that of Garakas, PvP
4- TR NEED DPS through a proper RESPECTABLE At-Will like Sly - no DF trance BS or Gloaming cut joke.
5- TR need tricks, stuns, traps.
Stealth based Damage with 2 second stealth = No dps at all. You are turning TR into a joke.
After you finish this - add the Paragon Path to strengthen these BASIC aspects.
These are the things we Main TR players need for running PvP, PvE like Garakas, CN, Malabog, Karru, etc
The Non TR class have UNFAIR advantages against TR:
SW has stuns,soul puppet, dps, knock down - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
GWF-movement(really?),def,dps /
GF - shield, def, stuns, EPIC knock downs/
HR - stuns, dodges, deflects, dps, close combat dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
CW - More than enough stuns, AOE, dps, close combat dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
DC - Def, stuns, AOE, comparable dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
PvE - Starting from IWD HEs, CN, Malabog Castle to Garakas - TR's As*s is handed to this class. Stealth provides that paper thin difference between Useless and Completely Non Playable Fodder Class. Oh and with the critical team work gone - TR doesnt give anything to party. There are tons of such nub things in this class. Seriously its a joke.
SW has stuns,soul puppet, dps, knock down - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
GWF-movement(really?),def,dps /
GF - shield, def, stuns, EPIC knock downs/
HR - stuns, dodges, deflects, dps, close combat dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
CW - EPIC More than enough stuns, EPIC AOE, EPIC dps, close combat dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
DC - Def, stuns, AOE, comparable dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
So, you've identified the strengths of the other classes. guess what, TR has abilities to counter. For the ranged powers/CCs you have a choice: stealth to target, dodge to target, or (MI) ITC to target. GF is easy to beat - get behind him/her. HR is a pain (esp combat), but they're very vulnerable to spike damage. For CWs, try stacking a slow effect (from stealth bonus). DC? yeah, good luck. WR will help some and dazes will help. GWF is going to be a dodgefest.
Basically, as a tentative start, you're gonna want to run MI with DS/IS/SB, WR/LB, ITC.
PvE - Starting from IWD HEs, CN, Malabog Castle to Garakas - TR's As*s is handed to this class. Stealth provides that paper thin difference between Useless and Completely Non Playable Fodder Class. Oh and with the critical team work gone - TR doesnt give anything to party. There are tons of such nub things in this class. Seriously its a joke.
I dunno about that. I've been running my scoundrel currently in dungeons and staying alive quite well. (not to mention pulling up right behind the CWs, sometimes passing some). If anything, mod 5 will definitely enhance scoundrel survivability, even when playing hybrid, and the CCs + VP (Exe rank 2) make a decent combo. I was running on DS, WR, SB on preview, from a suggestion from Kweassa and I was clearing minor HEs by myself. Soul procced once and I was drinnking pots a couple of times, but if you time your dazes to stack, you get very good control in PvE.
Feedback
- The paragon feats seem really solid right now. Maybe Heroic feats changes are still coming?
- I'd prefer just to have faster animations on the roll than more distance. That half second spent standing up always seems to be a death sentence for me, or maybe i am just terrible.
- If stealth is going to drain from at will usage, it should probably be no more than 10%.
- If stealth continues to drain from at will usage, consider having stealth not deplete based only on at will/encounter usage and not time.
- If stealth continues to drain from at will usage and time, consider making encounters only deplete a portion of the stealth bar.
- Stealth draining on damage taken pretty much mandates using that one class feature, why not just remove stealth loss from damage altogether and rework that class feature?
- Provide the ability to turn stealth on/off at will, its annoying to use stealth, dodge, and waste half of the stealth time getting back to a target. Or kill a target and then have to wait for stealth to recharge.
- I am really hoping to see some tuning to the powers for rouge. Some of them take way too long or seem to provide little benefit, especially the dailies. The class features that center around usage of dailies are not really practical to me, TR gains AP so slow, these things are sometimes only a factor once every 5-10 minutes.
- Too many of these powers basically require the TR to wait for an animation - I guess it looks cool to twirl your daggers in the air, but if it takes 2-4 seconds to get to any damage, there is a good chance I would have already had to dodge something and then start over, or take a big hit. I'm sure a lot of time was spent animating these things so is it asking too much to just speed it up?
Feedback: over all good what need to be addressed is the gear.
Profound set is still mandatory....could you please consider to rework feats/stealth itself to cover that 30 per cent more stealth duration of the profound?
After the patch yesterday dps improvements in branch executor is negligible. Shadow of dismise only unitarget damage is useless, in 6 seconds usually does not exceed 100k (50k shadow dismise).
In the best case using dayli I have come to the 200K (100K shadow dismise) less dps than other classes with my GS 17k.
this is my rotation:
entering stealth
WR (activating shadow dismise)
DF
Shadow strike (refilling my stealth bar)
active stealth
lashing blade.
Variant with dayli: (Lurker Assult)
active stealth
WR (active SD)
Lurker assault
active stealth
lashing blade(end of SD)
DF (activating stealth in their last strokes)(active SD)
DF
active stealth
WR (end of LA)(end of SD)
Shadow strike
active stealth
Lashing blade.(active SD)
It is not a simple rotation and less in combat.
This rotation does not use ITC with what I risk to do it. We need to use lashing blade (or another encounter in stealth) reactivated shadow dismise, or will not do enough unitarget damage to beat SW or HR.
And I dont see a problem active shadow dismisse in AoE .
That would put us to the level of other classes in dps. Although I guess it's the old problem ... PVP.
My character has full rank 9, perfect vorpal , legendary golden horn of the dragon, atifacts level 99, 9k power and 90% critical severity, little can improve my dps.
Thx for reading and sorry for my bad english, i use a online traductor.
Edit:this is the real rotation :P
On Live, most of our dps comes from our at-wills (DF mostly).
On Test, most of our dps comes from our encounters.
On live, surviving comes from using ITC in stealth for immunity.
On test, surviving now comes from killing the adds faster than they kill you, or playing a Scoundrel and having stuns. Problems comes from not killing adds, and having nothing to do but die.
On live, Dex is important because it increases our Critical Chance, giving us higher damage output.
On Test, Strength or Charisma is more important, because it increases our damage overall; we don't need Dex, because Stealth (which we will be in when we use our encounters) gives us 100% critical.
It seems on test, you spam your encounters, then run around dodging while your stealth refreshes.
Suggestion - PVE
At-Wills
Our at-wills should allow us to sustain damage. Make them faster, or useable while moving, or when using, they increase defense or deflect.
Surviving
Shorter dodges? More dodges? High Deflect?
Stat Priority
In every RPG, dexterity is the Rogues best stat.
---Make dex give higher deflect than Charisma?
---Make dex increase our damage, not strength (consider it a feat, such as Weapon Finesse). Maybe change our Disciple of Strength?
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
Stat Priority
In every RPG, dexterity is the Rogues best stat.
---Make dex give higher deflect than Charisma?
---Make dex increase our damage, not strength (consider it a feat, such as Weapon Finesse). Maybe change our Disciple of Strength?
I would still suggest, that DEX give us 1% movement speed (with of course crit chance or as you suggested, damage bonus). That would make the class more mobile, and would help surviving. Also, it would give us the feeling of a sneaky, fast rogue, like it should be. Sneak attack would need a rework, or need to be tested how Dex speed changes things for PVP. Also it needs to be moved into a different power slot, since it only works with stealt, and new TR-s does not gain anything from it till level 10.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
Point blank: If what you have to say isn't going to help the devs tweak upcoming changes, do not post it in this thread. The devs don't care about your opinion of another player. They also don't care what you think of another player's feedback. They do, however, want to hear about YOUR personal experiences with the changes on the preview server and YOUR feedback on those changes.
Personal attacks and bickering will be removed henceforth without notice to the poster.
Do not respond or reply to this notice, instead, use the PM system to address any questions or concerns. Thank you.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Feedback: over all good what need to be addressed is the gear.
Profound set is still mandatory....could you please consider to rework feats/stealth itself to cover that 30 per cent more stealth duration of the profound?
On this I agree. To summarize the points I have made about stealth so far:
the stealth depletion upon use of at-wills itself is a step in the right direction and necessary
the amount of depletion, may be up to debate -- there could be compromises as to a lower depletion value
the rate of natural stealth depletion should be lowered (= base/default stealth duration up)
gentlemancrush and developers, if you're listening please let us try the following:
10% stealth depletion per at-will made from stealth
default stealth duration upped to base 8 seconds
feat [Improved Cunning Sneak] increased to 5/10/15/20/25%, providing extra +2s
the stealth bonus provided by Profound set lowered to 25%, Skulker's down to 15%
..hence, the suggested stealth set up would be;
base = 8s
+ICS(25%) = 10s
Skulker's(15%) + ICS(25%) = 11.2s
Profound(25%) + ICS(25%) = 12s
at-will stealth depletion = 10%
IMO with these settings higher-level gear would be opened up to stealth duration that roughly matches our old Profound+ICS values, opening up the possibility of more TRs made freel to advance to BI/Draconic/other grade gear and finally leave behind the Profound.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Stat Priority
In every RPG, dexterity is the Rogues best stat.
---Make dex give higher deflect than Charisma?
---Make dex increase our damage, not strength (consider it a feat, such as Weapon Finesse). Maybe change our Disciple of Strength?
I also like the idea of dex for damage, as weapons like daggers are more about accuracy than brute force, and as was said with the reduction in the importance of critical chance for a Trickster Rogue it would let us keep the importance of our 'primary' stat.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited October 2014
One with the shadows (saboteur capstone feat) I noticed that in combat vs players or enemies, if I am taking damage this feat will not fill my stealth bar to max.
On this I agree. To summarize the points I have made about stealth so far:
the stealth depletion upon use of at-wills itself is a step in the right direction and necessary
the amount of depletion, may be up to debate -- there could be compromises as to a lower depletion value
the rate of natural stealth depletion should be slowered (= base/default stealth duration up)
gentlemancrush and developers, if you're listening please let us try the following:
10% stealth depletion per at-will made from stealth
default stealth duration upped to base 8 seconds, feat [Improved Cunning Sneak] providing extra +2s
the stealth bonus provided by Profound set lowered to 20%, Skulker's down to 15%
I would prefer to see these gear stealth bonuses replaced with something else entirely. With the intent of reducing the prolonged use of stealth it would make sense to tackle this issue now as they skew the testing for the class changes since many are testing with these stealth extended armors and the data learned from such has an unreliable future.
I would prefer to see these gear stealth bonuses replaced with something else entirely. With the intent of reducing the prolonged use of stealth it would make sense to tackle this issue now as they skew the testing for the class changes since many are testing with these stealth extended armors and the data learned from such has an unreliable future.
That is actually my thoughts as well. I've only left in the lowered stealth buff values because there most probably would be people who object to it and argue that it's a further 'nerf'.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Feedback: Sentinel I feel like I don’t have enough tools to stay alive under fire now and it makes tanking too hard.
Please try to play for a few hours to get used to the changes. Thank you again for all your help Adventurers! We look forward to hearing back from you!
Chris “Gentleman_Crush” Meyer
If you thinks it's hard to stay alive while under fire with a trickster rogue, try playing a hunter ranger. I like the fact that you guys have finally taken back some of the power from them. A theif should never have been able to stand toe to toe with several of the classes that they can now do it to. Let alone be able to defeat them easily. After all this is D&D not WoW. Bravo Developers
Just ran two dungeons on my TR:
19k GS, Crit and Crit Sev based with P.Vorpal; Legendary Dex belt and 3 Legendary Artifacts
10.5k power, 3k Crit, 2.5 AP, 3.5k Recov
Ran Sabo build, with the Crit Sev feat from Exe.
A DC, running with High Prophet, Dread Weapon, no belt, and stats still spec'd for healing (i.e. only 500 AP) out damaged me in CN run by 10 million.
DC Righteous Path: 42 Million
TR Sabo path: 32 million
CW Oppressor: 19 million
The DC's 42 million parse was about:
- Fire of the Gods: 17 million
- Divine Light: 8 million
- Chain of Blazing: 5.6 million
- DG: 4.5 million
- BoS: 3 million
My 32 million parse:
- Blitz: 10 million
- Dazing Strike: 6 million
- Gloaming: 4.5 mil
- Whilrlwind: 3.8
- Shadows: 2.1
etc...
I really enjoyed the play of the TR. I think the at wills are still very 'clunky'. They need to be faster.
I think the DC's power still needs a little work - specifically Fire of the Gods:
Fire of the Gods: When you critically strike a foe they are set ablaze, taking 20/40/60/80/100% of your weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Updated: Righteous: Fire of the Gods: This feat can no longer crit.
Not sure how Fire of the Gods is doing so much damage. The formula is obviously messed up. I think it's doing an AoE too.
If you thinks it's hard to stay alive while under fire with a trickster rogue, try playing a hunter ranger. I like the fact that you guys have finally taken back some of the power from them. A theif should never have been able to stand toe to toe with several of the classes that they can now do it to. Let alone be able to defeat them easily. After all this is D&D not WoW. Bravo Developers
You lost me there. You are replying to a GWF Sentinel and mentioning TR and HR and a 'theif'. Trickster Rogues are not thieves as that is an entirely different subclass of Rogue.
I believe I am now ready to proceed with the Feedback for version 2.
FEEDBACK: COMMON POWERS
1. Dazing Strike: Now always activates at the same speed as stealth and should hit targets far more consistently.
Easily one of the best changes so far, although not a stunning CC as we all wanted, the power now activates fast enough to be used in fast-paced combat situations with great reliability and chance to land. The activation speed and it's modest cone range is of great help to both PvP and PvE
Dazing Strike is now worthy to be called the best CC a TR has
2. Deft Strike: Now slows targets for 80% (up from 60%) for 5 seconds (up from 3 seconds).
Another great change. I am very grateful that the developers have listened to the players when we've asked for more potent, and longer lasting slows. Deft Strike now lasts a meaningful time and with good effect -- greatly increasing the QOL(Quality of Life) aspect of TRs as melees. Synergizes especially well with Scoundrel/Melee builds.
Deft Strike is now a reliable gap-closer and makes it easier for TRs to use melee powers
3. Dodge: Rogues now roll 50% farther when dodging in combat and their dodge cost has been reduced to 30% of their stamina (down from 50%)
There seems to be some confusion as to whether the dodge changes have made it to the preview. Seeing how a third dodge definately takes only 33% stamina, I'd say it is implemented, but in a way we can not easily understand.
I want to suggest that perhaps the developers re-skin the stamina bar (like, giving it visually 3 sections?) so players may be able to check and see if its indeed working
4. Path of the Blade: Now hits 3 targets each tick (up from 1) and deals roughly 33% of its original damage.
Possibly mixed feelings amongst many TR players. Those who hate it would welcome this change, those who made extensive use of it would feel it has been greatly nerfed.
Hence, in this case I can only provide opinion based on personal preference -- considering this power has always been a 'passive/autohit' type power which hardly required any skill (and yet, the outcome being much too effective despite being so easy to manage), in my case I approve the changes.
5. Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks to 3 (instead of 5)
A bug fix. Not much to comment
FEEDBACK: COMMON CLASS FEATURES
1. First Strike: Now provides 30% bonus damage at rank 1 (down from 33%) and provides an additional 15% when ranking it up (down from 33%).
Though it is not hard to imagine certain players (especially Executioner players) would find this change displeasing, my opinion is it has been adequately tweaked.
FEEDBACK: BUILD PATHS
1. Executioner
■ Shadow of Demise: Now correctly only triggers on Encounter Powers."
■ Shadow of Demise: Shadow of Demise can no longer activate itself and can only be applied to a single target.
Considering the deadly (perhaps too much) nature of this feat witnessed in version1, I'd say the correction is adequate. Removing self-replication of the effect, as well as proc through at-wills was a bug fix, as we understand.
However, Executioners lack the extra stealth abilities of the Saboteuer or the extra CCs of the Scoundrel. It is my belief that allowing it to proc with multiple targets (with AoE powers such as Blitz or Dazing Strike) is necessary for both PvP and PvE.
I suggest the developers keep the current fixes, but once again allow it to proc with all targets hit with the proc encounter
2. Saboteuer
■ Knife's Edge: No longer incorrectly affects Artifacts and other non player powers.
■ Shady Preparations: No longer incorrectly affects Artifacts and other non player powers.
■ One with the Shadows: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20).
The fixes to Knife's Edge and Shady Preparations are adequate. Thank you for a quick fix
The 5 second reduction in cooldown for One with the Shadows has made all the difference in the world. It is a welcome decision which makes it easier for Saboteuers to manage their attack rotations and tactics in a much easier manner
The
"in-and-out of stealth" characteristic of the path is now much better represented, and my opinion is that the Saboteuer path can now be considered a solid choice.
3. Scoundrel
■ Concussive Strikes: Now dazes the target for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds (up from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second)
■ Skull Cracker: Base daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 2 seconds). Total maximum increased to 6 seconds (up from 4 seconds).
■ Skull Cracker: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20).
■ Skull Cracker: Now also grants 25% increased move speed.
This version2 is nothing but good news for the Scoundrel path, contrary to the general disappointments faced in version1.
All of the changes are now adequate, and each of the changes have strengthened the Crowd Control aspect of the path greatly.
Overall, since the changes happened the strengthened CC powers have increased both the offense and defense of the Scoundrel path greatly, and it can now be considered almost on par with the other two paths
Moreover, this path synergizes well with the changes to individual powers with great effect.
It is my belief that the Scoundrel path now adequately represents the CC/brawling power of the TR and makes it a fearsome melee combatant.
FEEDBACK: WHISPERKNIFE
1. Advantageous Position: Now provides 20% resistance (up from 10%) and now lasts for 2 seconds per rank (up from 1)
I never thought I'd say this, and most people who've tried the WK path would also be surprised... but Advantageous Position is now actually not too shabby now (
imagine that!!)
The reason behind this positive change is actually the increase in duration -- max 6 seconds after exiting stealth.
The increased duration now allows a lingering damage boost even out of stealth, for a time that lasts long enough to use it aggressively.
Especially with the quick stealth depletion in place, what Advantageous Position means for a WK is that (for example) the WK can start flinging all 8 charges (actually 9 in reality, since 1 recharges while you throw the 8 over 4 seconds) from stealth, and even if stealth is depleted along the way the rest of the knives thrown while visible, will have the same base damage as those thrown in stealth. (Minus the extra stealth-related damage buffs, that is) This applies to all attacks, and is actually a great source of damage increase for the WK in general.
However, in terms of damage reduction, I feel that it is still a bit too weak.
This is my suggestion: for the sake of experimenting, let's try in the preview the following set-up:
(1) Lasts 4 seconds at rank1, each rank +2s, for a total of 8 seconds
(2) Resistance to ranged damage increased to 30% (from 20%)
If these changes are too powerful, then the developers may always tone it down to the current level
2. Disheartening Strike: This power has now been correctly reduced by 10% instead of 60%.
The overall changes are acceptable. I feel it is adequate
3. Razor Action: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 100%. The Damage Over Time component tied to Seething Knives now only triggers when the player has points in Seething Knives.
Razor Action: Damage increased by a further 200%.
Still too weak... it is not much noticeable
4. Vengeance's Pursuit: Cooldown reduced to 12 seconds (down from 16).
Vengeance's Pursuit: The first portion of this power can now be activated while moving. The followup portion of this power now activates substantially faster.
I cannot express enough thanks to the developers. The reduction in cooltime, the mobile activation, and the increase in responsiveness when teleporting... this has turned VP into a very welcome addition to the WK and now it is finally beginning to feel reliable
I cannot even begin to express just what kind of difference the
"throwing on the run" makes in terms of mobility. Such a simple change and yet the tactical worthiness of this power has grown so much
The speeding up of the follow-up teleportation is also good news. This makes breaking out from CCs that much faster and responsive
However, when compared to ITC, the tactical worth of a total CC immunity + 100% deflection, is still just too good for VP to match, IMO.
This is my suggestion:
(1) Cooldown further reduced to 10 seconds
(2) The 'throw' part of the power also speeded up
(3) The 3/6/9% damage debuff replaced with (4)
(4) When a VP 'mark' is active on any target, the TR's deflection chance is increased by 3/6/9%
IMO, if the above changes are in place, I think we can finally 'call it even' with ITC
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
IKR? Like I've said before, the Dazing Strike alone makes me so happy.
It's finally a long-awaited CC for TRs that has some duration, as well as activates fast enough to stop a slow-activating power before even it lands. Too bad it's not a stun, but even still... the new DS rocks.
Now.. if only they can cater to the WK paragon a little bit more....
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
charisma seems to work for me but it's probably near impossible to detect a 4% difference on attacks since that can easily be hidden in a low damage roll. instead, i just calc the total which is like max base at-will x 15% base CA x 9% charisma (option x 10% CA from draconic set). comes out very close to the maximum damage i can throw out for a non-critical.
+1. And put down stealth depletion at least to 3-5%, if not removed for good.
Now with what I hear about DS and GC, I'm thinking my DPS is gonna go beyond 15k using DF as the main at-will (keeping the legendary DF wep), CG as a secondary one to use whenever stealth is up, DS for the dazes and AoE, Blitz for more AoE and LB for single powerful mobs and bosses. Combined with the usual LA for bosses and WoB for mobs, I think I'm gonna be singing a hail-Mary (agnostic, by the way). There's also plenty of survivirability given by the dazes from DS (and smoke bomb, if DS is not enough) plus all the CC your party members can do... GC may be boring, but I'll mainly be using it as a filler attack in stealth before I land Blitz or LB, after which it's DF once more. Almost none of the current encounters last longer than this one (MAYBE 2) rotaion.
(I have to add this in case I'll be sent away to post on my main class: TR is my main class. It's the char I'm striving to max ever since I began playing NW)
Damage from Duelist Flurry Bleed all fight - 36%, avg crit 53%.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/672ro3yklqxeqx1/CN%20%20tr%20dmg%20all.png?dl=0
Last boss damage Duelist Flurry Bleed - 50% of all my dmg, with avg crit 55%.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/na3y7vs7hy1i323/CN%20%20tr%20dmg.png?dl=0
It's w/o Vorpal (LPF equilpped). But most time i in stealth (Bleed proc with Combat Advantage), some time - in ItC. And practically all last boss fight i stay close to Azrael.
After this patch - a just don't know...
P.S.
Sunlord's Gift Elixir nice for tr
power replenish(out)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r55yn9k02zwk1gs/pr_out.png?dl=0
power replenish(in)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4y4kga04dehrpi/pr_in.png?dl=0
P.P.S.
And my dps is low (yea, i compare with very nice CW, but
TR
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyifblu920tcsk8/boss_out_dmg.png?dl=0
CW
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qshf9oea60uh7j/boss_out_dmg_faust.png?dl=0
Diana (15,4 DC)
BigHalf (15,5 GF)
All in all Im very happy about the upcoming changes.
Finally we TRs are able to fight every class. Thanks for that!
BUT
dear devs, PLS FIX the following BUGS since they stop me from further training on ptr:
- "Shadow Strike" procs "One with the Shadows" (nonsense)
- "Path of Blades" doesnt apply weapon enchantments
- "Path of Blades" doesnt proc "One with the Shadows" (maybe intended? Would make sense, but if its intended, tell us)
- Still no stamina drain while dodging in stealth
Moreover: One more dodge is okay, but 2 more would be more reasonable. Since our whole Stealth-Mechanic is overworked, we need even more mobility to survive. ---> Id love to see 4 short-distanced dodges, with a shorter animation, so we can dodge fast and stay in attacking range. It might be nice for pve to dodge to the end of the world, but for pvp we would dodge away from the node, which means points for the enemy every time we dodge and thats really not what we want huh ?
Greetings RAPTOR Moritus
"The worst that could happen to us is that we have to die, and since that is already our unalterable fate, we are free; those who have lost everything no longer have anything to fear." - Don Juan
Goodjob.
Now please: rework sneak attack, dont let shadow strike proc one with the shadows and add a dot to smoke bomb ♥
SUGGESTION: To continue to promote at will using like cloud of steal, sly fluorish you could propose to add a BONUS out of stealth to one of those at will based on weapon artifact choice.
It can seem weird, balance to class through balance to items but still compensation.
Dude, you are so clueless. *facepalm* Do you even play TR ?
Finally we TRs can kill everybody.
"The worst that could happen to us is that we have to die, and since that is already our unalterable fate, we are free; those who have lost everything no longer have anything to fear." - Don Juan
Gloaming cut-increase range of that skill to that we can't be seen while using this power. Now each time we use gloaming cut we get stun or daze cause range is too low.
Duelist flurry-since it deplete stealth and out of stealth is useless cause everyone will stun TR during 2 first hits i think that second hit should be terminated. So that we use first hit then jump and then sequence of duelist flurry. Without first hit i think we would not be able to make that jump-chase victims.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Also don't forget about fixing itc, shadow strike and impact shot which dmg is still useless.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
i have the feeling DAZING STRIKE is now a bit overpowered. The reason is, if i am using it with stealth i deal 15-30K Hits in a prone. Most of the mob groups i was testing at dread ring was one hitted or two hitted (the second hit was easy because they were stunned) [Using Executioneer Path]. Now imagine this power in PvP. You have the enemy team capturing the spot, you go in stealth run to the spot and one hit the CWs or characters with low defense and life and stunn them. For me it seems a bit toooooo much.
PATH OF BLADE seems now okay for me. It's not a big AoE Damage increase but i can have him up nearly every time because of the activation time, which is nice.
WICKED REMINDER has a nice damage and i really like the changes that we need less stacks to get our damage for the group boosted.BUG: Wicked Reminder activates sometimes several times without my command. Seems some kind of issue if my characters moves forwards.
I tried now some combinations of GLOAMING CUT and DUELIST FLURRY. The reason i used GLOAMING CUT was it doesn't reduce stealth and i assumed it would become the new TR PvE At-Will-Skill. But i was wrong.
If i only use Gloaming Cut for 1 Minute while stealthed and unstealhed i do like 450.000 Damage in 1 Minute. If i use Duelist Flurry i get around 950.000 Damage. If i try to use Gloaming Cut while stealthed and Duelist Flurry while unstealthed i get only 850.000 Damage in 1 Minute.
ACT shows me if i go in stealth my DPS drops because the DPS of Gloaming Cut is lower then Duelist Flurry (and now imagine how many Buffs i get with the Executioneer Feats and it's still lower then the Bleeding of Duelist Flurry and Duelist Flurry itself)
To give you a reference: At the current settings on the live Server i deal around 890.000 Damage in 1 Minute. Which means i deal insignificantly more damage.
We come to the Feats. I only will recommend Executioneer Feats in this Feedback Post.
T1: Arterial Cut = I would like if that stays ingame. +15% Critical Severity is nice and usefull for an TR.
T1: Grim Pleasure = Useless Feat. If i have 10.000 Power i get additional 500 Power (+5%). 500 Power are only 3% or less damage increase. And with 10.000 Power i am on the upper/end scale of the power an TR can have. So please kick it out.
T2: Vicious Pursuit = Don't know what i should say. It's simply 5% more damage and more usefull as Grim Pleasure. Can stay in but i would like that it would stack up 3 times. Which means TR deals more damage on Bosses.
T3: Twisted Grin = Would be a nice feat in use of GLOAMING CUT. And it is. I tried it on some groups in the dread ring and IF Twisted Grin is activated it deals nice damage while stealthed (+25% more damage). But i would like if it is an 6 Second Buff for every attack in 6 Seconds and not a one timer.
T3: Last Moments: Seems okay for me.
T4: Exposed Weakness = Nice Bonus while stealthed. Can only proper use while using GLOAMING CUT because of stealth depression. Which means you should power up Gloaming Cut a bit.
T4: Shadowborn = Sounds nice. But is somekind of useless. If i enter stealth i get +100% Power for my next attack. Which means: Hit. If i use Gloaming Cut i get like ~15.000 Damage (normal damage would ~12.000). Which means it a waste of statpoints.
T5: Shadow Of Demise: Nice Feat. Nothing wrong with it.
I will continue and testing the other feeds. Have Fun, Stay Tuned.
I agree, with lot of your feedback. But keep in mind that gloaming Cut makes more damage as target health diminishes. So it does not need buff, maybe only a bit faster animation speed.
Shadowborn makes no sense with atwill, but try it with Blitz or or Lashing Blade, and you will feel the difference.
1- TR cannot deal with ranged class currently - we need every second of the 5 second stealth to get our damage through
2- TR is close combat but cannot survive long enough to deal damage - need enough Deflect or Defense to be able to last.
3- TR class need more dodges or they cannot deal with AoE in situations like that of Garakas, PvP
4- TR NEED DPS through a proper RESPECTABLE At-Will like Sly - no DF trance BS or Gloaming cut joke.
5- TR need tricks, stuns, traps.
Stealth based Damage with 2 second stealth = No dps at all. You are turning TR into a joke.
After you finish this - add the Paragon Path to strengthen these BASIC aspects.
These are the things we Main TR players need for running PvP, PvE like Garakas, CN, Malabog, Karru, etc
The Non TR class have UNFAIR advantages against TR:
SW has stuns,soul puppet, dps, knock down - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
GWF-movement(really?),def,dps /
GF - shield, def, stuns, EPIC knock downs/
HR - stuns, dodges, deflects, dps, close combat dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
CW - More than enough stuns, AOE, dps, close combat dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
DC - Def, stuns, AOE, comparable dps - Ranged - so can kill TR from distance 90% of time
PvE - Starting from IWD HEs, CN, Malabog Castle to Garakas - TR's As*s is handed to this class. Stealth provides that paper thin difference between Useless and Completely Non Playable Fodder Class. Oh and with the critical team work gone - TR doesnt give anything to party. There are tons of such nub things in this class. Seriously its a joke.
Glaoming Cut is a Monstrousity.
Result: TR is the weakest class.
So, you've identified the strengths of the other classes. guess what, TR has abilities to counter. For the ranged powers/CCs you have a choice: stealth to target, dodge to target, or (MI) ITC to target. GF is easy to beat - get behind him/her. HR is a pain (esp combat), but they're very vulnerable to spike damage. For CWs, try stacking a slow effect (from stealth bonus). DC? yeah, good luck. WR will help some and dazes will help. GWF is going to be a dodgefest.
Basically, as a tentative start, you're gonna want to run MI with DS/IS/SB, WR/LB, ITC.
I dunno about that. I've been running my scoundrel currently in dungeons and staying alive quite well. (not to mention pulling up right behind the CWs, sometimes passing some). If anything, mod 5 will definitely enhance scoundrel survivability, even when playing hybrid, and the CCs + VP (Exe rank 2) make a decent combo. I was running on DS, WR, SB on preview, from a suggestion from Kweassa and I was clearing minor HEs by myself. Soul procced once and I was drinnking pots a couple of times, but if you time your dazes to stack, you get very good control in PvE.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
Feedback
- The paragon feats seem really solid right now. Maybe Heroic feats changes are still coming?
- I'd prefer just to have faster animations on the roll than more distance. That half second spent standing up always seems to be a death sentence for me, or maybe i am just terrible.
- If stealth is going to drain from at will usage, it should probably be no more than 10%.
- If stealth continues to drain from at will usage, consider having stealth not deplete based only on at will/encounter usage and not time.
- If stealth continues to drain from at will usage and time, consider making encounters only deplete a portion of the stealth bar.
- Stealth draining on damage taken pretty much mandates using that one class feature, why not just remove stealth loss from damage altogether and rework that class feature?
- Provide the ability to turn stealth on/off at will, its annoying to use stealth, dodge, and waste half of the stealth time getting back to a target. Or kill a target and then have to wait for stealth to recharge.
- I am really hoping to see some tuning to the powers for rouge. Some of them take way too long or seem to provide little benefit, especially the dailies. The class features that center around usage of dailies are not really practical to me, TR gains AP so slow, these things are sometimes only a factor once every 5-10 minutes.
- Too many of these powers basically require the TR to wait for an animation - I guess it looks cool to twirl your daggers in the air, but if it takes 2-4 seconds to get to any damage, there is a good chance I would have already had to dodge something and then start over, or take a big hit. I'm sure a lot of time was spent animating these things so is it asking too much to just speed it up?
Profound set is still mandatory....could you please consider to rework feats/stealth itself to cover that 30 per cent more stealth duration of the profound?
In the best case using dayli I have come to the 200K (100K shadow dismise) less dps than other classes with my GS 17k.
this is my rotation:
entering stealth
WR (activating shadow dismise)
DF
Shadow strike (refilling my stealth bar)
active stealth
lashing blade.
Variant with dayli: (Lurker Assult)
active stealth
WR (active SD)
Lurker assault
active stealth
lashing blade(end of SD)
DF (activating stealth in their last strokes)(active SD)
DF
active stealth
WR (end of LA)(end of SD)
Shadow strike
active stealth
Lashing blade.(active SD)
It is not a simple rotation and less in combat.
This rotation does not use ITC with what I risk to do it.
We need to use lashing blade (or another encounter in stealth) reactivated shadow dismise, or will not do enough unitarget damage to beat SW or HR.
And I dont see a problem active shadow dismisse in AoE .
That would put us to the level of other classes in dps. Although I guess it's the old problem ... PVP.
My character has full rank 9, perfect vorpal , legendary golden horn of the dragon, atifacts level 99, 9k power and 90% critical severity, little can improve my dps.
Thx for reading and sorry for my bad english, i use a online traductor.
Edit:this is the real rotation :P
On Live, most of our dps comes from our at-wills (DF mostly).
On Test, most of our dps comes from our encounters.
On live, surviving comes from using ITC in stealth for immunity.
On test, surviving now comes from killing the adds faster than they kill you, or playing a Scoundrel and having stuns. Problems comes from not killing adds, and having nothing to do but die.
On live, Dex is important because it increases our Critical Chance, giving us higher damage output.
On Test, Strength or Charisma is more important, because it increases our damage overall; we don't need Dex, because Stealth (which we will be in when we use our encounters) gives us 100% critical.
It seems on test, you spam your encounters, then run around dodging while your stealth refreshes.
Suggestion - PVE
At-Wills
Our at-wills should allow us to sustain damage. Make them faster, or useable while moving, or when using, they increase defense or deflect.
Surviving
Shorter dodges? More dodges? High Deflect?
Stat Priority
In every RPG, dexterity is the Rogues best stat.
---Make dex give higher deflect than Charisma?
---Make dex increase our damage, not strength (consider it a feat, such as Weapon Finesse). Maybe change our Disciple of Strength?
I would still suggest, that DEX give us 1% movement speed (with of course crit chance or as you suggested, damage bonus). That would make the class more mobile, and would help surviving. Also, it would give us the feeling of a sneaky, fast rogue, like it should be. Sneak attack would need a rework, or need to be tested how Dex speed changes things for PVP. Also it needs to be moved into a different power slot, since it only works with stealt, and new TR-s does not gain anything from it till level 10.
Point blank: If what you have to say isn't going to help the devs tweak upcoming changes, do not post it in this thread. The devs don't care about your opinion of another player. They also don't care what you think of another player's feedback. They do, however, want to hear about YOUR personal experiences with the changes on the preview server and YOUR feedback on those changes.
Personal attacks and bickering will be removed henceforth without notice to the poster.
Do not respond or reply to this notice, instead, use the PM system to address any questions or concerns. Thank you.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
On this I agree. To summarize the points I have made about stealth so far:
the stealth depletion upon use of at-wills itself is a step in the right direction and necessary
the amount of depletion, may be up to debate -- there could be compromises as to a lower depletion value
the rate of natural stealth depletion should be lowered (= base/default stealth duration up)
gentlemancrush and developers, if you're listening please let us try the following:
10% stealth depletion per at-will made from stealth
default stealth duration upped to base 8 seconds
feat [Improved Cunning Sneak] increased to 5/10/15/20/25%, providing extra +2s
the stealth bonus provided by Profound set lowered to 25%, Skulker's down to 15%
..hence, the suggested stealth set up would be;
base = 8s
+ICS(25%) = 10s
Skulker's(15%) + ICS(25%) = 11.2s
Profound(25%) + ICS(25%) = 12s
at-will stealth depletion = 10%
IMO with these settings higher-level gear would be opened up to stealth duration that roughly matches our old Profound+ICS values, opening up the possibility of more TRs made freel to advance to BI/Draconic/other grade gear and finally leave behind the Profound.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I also like the idea of dex for damage, as weapons like daggers are more about accuracy than brute force, and as was said with the reduction in the importance of critical chance for a Trickster Rogue it would let us keep the importance of our 'primary' stat.
I noticed that in combat vs players or enemies, if I am taking damage this feat will not fill my stealth bar to max.
Dazing strikes range from stealth
http://imgur.com/u24Ijyi
I would prefer to see these gear stealth bonuses replaced with something else entirely. With the intent of reducing the prolonged use of stealth it would make sense to tackle this issue now as they skew the testing for the class changes since many are testing with these stealth extended armors and the data learned from such has an unreliable future.
That is actually my thoughts as well. I've only left in the lowered stealth buff values because there most probably would be people who object to it and argue that it's a further 'nerf'.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you thinks it's hard to stay alive while under fire with a trickster rogue, try playing a hunter ranger. I like the fact that you guys have finally taken back some of the power from them. A theif should never have been able to stand toe to toe with several of the classes that they can now do it to. Let alone be able to defeat them easily. After all this is D&D not WoW. Bravo Developers
19k GS, Crit and Crit Sev based with P.Vorpal; Legendary Dex belt and 3 Legendary Artifacts
10.5k power, 3k Crit, 2.5 AP, 3.5k Recov
Ran Sabo build, with the Crit Sev feat from Exe.
A DC, running with High Prophet, Dread Weapon, no belt, and stats still spec'd for healing (i.e. only 500 AP) out damaged me in CN run by 10 million.
DC Righteous Path: 42 Million
TR Sabo path: 32 million
CW Oppressor: 19 million
The DC's 42 million parse was about:
- Fire of the Gods: 17 million
- Divine Light: 8 million
- Chain of Blazing: 5.6 million
- DG: 4.5 million
- BoS: 3 million
My 32 million parse:
- Blitz: 10 million
- Dazing Strike: 6 million
- Gloaming: 4.5 mil
- Whilrlwind: 3.8
- Shadows: 2.1
etc...
I really enjoyed the play of the TR. I think the at wills are still very 'clunky'. They need to be faster.
I think the DC's power still needs a little work - specifically Fire of the Gods:
Fire of the Gods: When you critically strike a foe they are set ablaze, taking 20/40/60/80/100% of your weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Updated: Righteous: Fire of the Gods: This feat can no longer crit.
Not sure how Fire of the Gods is doing so much damage. The formula is obviously messed up. I think it's doing an AoE too.
You lost me there. You are replying to a GWF Sentinel and mentioning TR and HR and a 'theif'. Trickster Rogues are not thieves as that is an entirely different subclass of Rogue.
FEEDBACK: COMMON POWERS
1. Dazing Strike: Now always activates at the same speed as stealth and should hit targets far more consistently.
Easily one of the best changes so far, although not a stunning CC as we all wanted, the power now activates fast enough to be used in fast-paced combat situations with great reliability and chance to land. The activation speed and it's modest cone range is of great help to both PvP and PvE
Dazing Strike is now worthy to be called the best CC a TR has
2. Deft Strike: Now slows targets for 80% (up from 60%) for 5 seconds (up from 3 seconds).
Another great change. I am very grateful that the developers have listened to the players when we've asked for more potent, and longer lasting slows. Deft Strike now lasts a meaningful time and with good effect -- greatly increasing the QOL(Quality of Life) aspect of TRs as melees. Synergizes especially well with Scoundrel/Melee builds.
Deft Strike is now a reliable gap-closer and makes it easier for TRs to use melee powers
3. Dodge: Rogues now roll 50% farther when dodging in combat and their dodge cost has been reduced to 30% of their stamina (down from 50%)
There seems to be some confusion as to whether the dodge changes have made it to the preview. Seeing how a third dodge definately takes only 33% stamina, I'd say it is implemented, but in a way we can not easily understand.
I want to suggest that perhaps the developers re-skin the stamina bar (like, giving it visually 3 sections?) so players may be able to check and see if its indeed working
4. Path of the Blade: Now hits 3 targets each tick (up from 1) and deals roughly 33% of its original damage.
Possibly mixed feelings amongst many TR players. Those who hate it would welcome this change, those who made extensive use of it would feel it has been greatly nerfed.
Hence, in this case I can only provide opinion based on personal preference -- considering this power has always been a 'passive/autohit' type power which hardly required any skill (and yet, the outcome being much too effective despite being so easy to manage), in my case I approve the changes.
5. Wicked Reminder: Now correctly stacks to 3 (instead of 5)
A bug fix. Not much to comment
FEEDBACK: COMMON CLASS FEATURES
1. First Strike: Now provides 30% bonus damage at rank 1 (down from 33%) and provides an additional 15% when ranking it up (down from 33%).
Though it is not hard to imagine certain players (especially Executioner players) would find this change displeasing, my opinion is it has been adequately tweaked.
FEEDBACK: BUILD PATHS
1. Executioner
■ Shadow of Demise: Now correctly only triggers on Encounter Powers."
■ Shadow of Demise: Shadow of Demise can no longer activate itself and can only be applied to a single target.
Considering the deadly (perhaps too much) nature of this feat witnessed in version1, I'd say the correction is adequate. Removing self-replication of the effect, as well as proc through at-wills was a bug fix, as we understand.
However, Executioners lack the extra stealth abilities of the Saboteuer or the extra CCs of the Scoundrel. It is my belief that allowing it to proc with multiple targets (with AoE powers such as Blitz or Dazing Strike) is necessary for both PvP and PvE.
I suggest the developers keep the current fixes, but once again allow it to proc with all targets hit with the proc encounter
2. Saboteuer
■ Knife's Edge: No longer incorrectly affects Artifacts and other non player powers.
■ Shady Preparations: No longer incorrectly affects Artifacts and other non player powers.
■ One with the Shadows: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20).
The fixes to Knife's Edge and Shady Preparations are adequate. Thank you for a quick fix
The 5 second reduction in cooldown for One with the Shadows has made all the difference in the world. It is a welcome decision which makes it easier for Saboteuers to manage their attack rotations and tactics in a much easier manner
The
"in-and-out of stealth" characteristic of the path is now much better represented, and my opinion is that the Saboteuer path can now be considered a solid choice.3. Scoundrel
■ Concussive Strikes: Now dazes the target for .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds (up from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second)
■ Skull Cracker: Base daze increased to 4 seconds (up from 2 seconds). Total maximum increased to 6 seconds (up from 4 seconds).
■ Skull Cracker: Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds (down from 20).
■ Skull Cracker: Now also grants 25% increased move speed.
This version2 is nothing but good news for the Scoundrel path, contrary to the general disappointments faced in version1.
All of the changes are now adequate, and each of the changes have strengthened the Crowd Control aspect of the path greatly.
Overall, since the changes happened the strengthened CC powers have increased both the offense and defense of the Scoundrel path greatly, and it can now be considered almost on par with the other two paths
Moreover, this path synergizes well with the changes to individual powers with great effect.
It is my belief that the Scoundrel path now adequately represents the CC/brawling power of the TR and makes it a fearsome melee combatant.
FEEDBACK: WHISPERKNIFE
1. Advantageous Position: Now provides 20% resistance (up from 10%) and now lasts for 2 seconds per rank (up from 1)
I never thought I'd say this, and most people who've tried the WK path would also be surprised... but Advantageous Position is now actually not too shabby now (
imagine that!!)The reason behind this positive change is actually the increase in duration -- max 6 seconds after exiting stealth.
The increased duration now allows a lingering damage boost even out of stealth, for a time that lasts long enough to use it aggressively.
Especially with the quick stealth depletion in place, what Advantageous Position means for a WK is that (for example) the WK can start flinging all 8 charges (actually 9 in reality, since 1 recharges while you throw the 8 over 4 seconds) from stealth, and even if stealth is depleted along the way the rest of the knives thrown while visible, will have the same base damage as those thrown in stealth. (Minus the extra stealth-related damage buffs, that is) This applies to all attacks, and is actually a great source of damage increase for the WK in general.
However, in terms of damage reduction, I feel that it is still a bit too weak.
This is my suggestion: for the sake of experimenting, let's try in the preview the following set-up: (1) Lasts 4 seconds at rank1, each rank +2s, for a total of 8 seconds (2) Resistance to ranged damage increased to 30% (from 20%) If these changes are too powerful, then the developers may always tone it down to the current level
2. Disheartening Strike: This power has now been correctly reduced by 10% instead of 60%.
The overall changes are acceptable. I feel it is adequate
3. Razor Action: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 100%. The Damage Over Time component tied to Seething Knives now only triggers when the player has points in Seething Knives.
Razor Action: Damage increased by a further 200%.
Still too weak... it is not much noticeable
4. Vengeance's Pursuit: Cooldown reduced to 12 seconds (down from 16).
Vengeance's Pursuit: The first portion of this power can now be activated while moving. The followup portion of this power now activates substantially faster.
I cannot express enough thanks to the developers. The reduction in cooltime, the mobile activation, and the increase in responsiveness when teleporting... this has turned VP into a very welcome addition to the WK and now it is finally beginning to feel reliable
I cannot even begin to express just what kind of difference the
"throwing on the run" makes in terms of mobility. Such a simple change and yet the tactical worthiness of this power has grown so muchThe speeding up of the follow-up teleportation is also good news. This makes breaking out from CCs that much faster and responsive
However, when compared to ITC, the tactical worth of a total CC immunity + 100% deflection, is still just too good for VP to match, IMO.
This is my suggestion: (1) Cooldown further reduced to 10 seconds (2) The 'throw' part of the power also speeded up (3) The 3/6/9% damage debuff replaced with (4) (4) When a VP 'mark' is active on any target, the TR's deflection chance is increased by 3/6/9% IMO, if the above changes are in place, I think we can finally 'call it even' with ITC
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'