They didn't only make CWs be OP, they also made we have THE MOST ANNOYING GAMEPLAY EVER by just using randomic powers and waiting for things to proc.
Honestly I'd just take the CW and GWF from mod 3 and make some minor changes to reduce the awesomeness of CWs on PvE and reduce the awesomeness of GWFs on PvP.
They didn't only make CWs be OP, they also made we have THE MOST ANNOYING GAMEPLAY EVER by just using randomic powers and waiting for things to proc.
Honestly I'd just take the CW and GWF from mod 3 and make some minor changes to reduce the awesomeness of CWs on PvE and reduce the awesomeness of GWFs on PvP.
+1 but also I felt sorry for cw players in mod 3 they wasn't as good as any pvp char or even gf lol so I'm glad they got a buff but its just too much.
+1 but also I felt sorry for cw players in mod 3 they wasn't as good as any pvp char or even gf lol so I'm glad they got a buff but its just too much.
Something that I think they should do is to make one of our single-target control powers ignore control immunity. This could be a daily, a capstone feat that affected an encounter (Entangling Force maybe) or something.
I played a bit with my DC, and I spent my time CCed to death without contributing much. I was used to be CCed in mod3 but there, it's getting ridiculous. I'm now gathering courage to try to get back again in domination ... Maybe tomorrow.
DC are going to suffer even more than they used to I'm afraid.
(I haven't played enough with my GF yet to get an impression).
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
(I haven't played enough with my GF yet to get an impression).
GF is ridiculous. I used to hit ~40% uber tanky GFs for 28k Anvil of Doom crits without Knight's Challenge and vorpal. And my GF is only 14k GS. 12k Bull Charges and Lunging Strikes, infinite block, perma Knight's Valor. GFs are just plain stupid now, I hope they're happy. The only thing that stops them from complete facerolling is new CWs cause they can just freeze them through their shield while inflicting ~7k assailant hits.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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mugiwaracMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited August 2014
hr is out of control, wilds medicine really needs a bigger internal cooldown (3 - 5 sec), it's unacceptable that the most op class in pvp has such survivability
King Goponov - GWF
Eleanor - CW (retired after Assailing nerf)
I have also noticed a huge spike in the amount of cc that's going on. The sprint mechanic on some classes does a pretty good job of providing immunity, but it just leaves dodge classes high and dry as they are the easiest to catch. To me all of the stuns say: "Go put on your Elven Battle Enchantment Jimmy! Its going to be raining CC!"
most classes complain that the rest is OP, HRs say the CW, GF and GWF is OP, GWFs say that CWs, GFs and HRs are OP GFs say that GWFs, CWs and HRs are OP and CWs say HRs, GFs and GWFs are OP.
Meanwhile TRs and DCs are playing red hands on the side. XD
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited August 2014
I'm a CW and I'm going to have to give up PvP for good. I toughed it out through tenacity, but I can't take these changes. GWFs are pretty much the only ones I can kill now. I haven't even tried with my GWF yet.
CW is a bit overpowered now with the overwhelming auto-proc damage, but the other classes I'd say are in a good spot. I've watched a few 1v1s in domination and it seemed pretty balanced to me. CWs definatly should have had assailiant implimented differently but its a welcome change to be on top for once, probably wont last so I'll be making the best of it.
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2014
I wouldn't say they are broken overpowered...
But I would like to see the perma-lock go away.
I mean they can literally pick a target and say you are not moving anymore. If you have another team mate who can hit them over the head they tend to die real fast which somewhat makes it balanced but it makes CW's a 2v1 situation just because they will perma-lock you.
One thing I would like to see done is having dodge distrupt Ray of Frost. If Ray of Frost was not maintained through dodges it would be a lot more doable to face against while still a potent challenge with all of their other direct control powers.
Damage-wise I think they are fine. So long as I can keep attacking them and not be stuck in a block of ice for an hour I would be fine.
I mean they can literally pick a target and say you are not moving anymore. If you have another team mate who can hit them over the head they tend to die real fast which somewhat makes it balanced but it makes CW's a 2v1 situation just because they will perma-lock you.
One thing I would like to see done is having dodge distrupt Ray of Frost. If Ray of Frost was not maintained through dodges it would be a lot more doable to face against while still a potent challenge with all of their other direct control powers.
Damage-wise I think they are fine. So long as I can keep attacking them and not be stuck in a block of ice for an hour I would be fine.
It was obvious it would be like that.
So, same as GWF, we were forced to choose between DAMAGES or TANKING, CWs must choose between DAMAGES or CONTROLS, but they have both in Mod4. That's simple.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2014
Which is fine. I expected them to have more control. I like the more control they have other than the direct perma-lock which can not be outplayed.
As long as there is some hope of breaking out between links in the chain I have no problem with a lot of control. Right now this is similar to the GWF Roar, Takedown and IBS. If you get hit by roar you are guaranteed to be hit by the other two.
Once a Control Wizard decides you are locked down, that's it. You might as well take your hands off the keyboard because you will not be doing anything unless another ally disrupts them.
In group fights this adds an interesting dynamic to an extent. However not when facing off against a team that understands they have to protect the CW. It also gives CW's far too much power in stopping back capping. The end caps always provided a lot of interesting skirmishes but that doesn't exist with the new perma-lock situation. As long as a CW goes to defend the point against anything but a TR they will win that 1v1 fight.
It's not horribly broken...
But it should be toned down just a bit so there are chances to break the chain.
Which is fine. I expected them to have more control. I like the more control they have other than the direct lock-lock which can not be outplayed.
As long as theyre is some hope of breaking out between links in the chain I have no problem with a lot of control. Right now this is similar to the GWF Roar, Takedown and IBS. If you get hit by roar you are guaranteed to be hit by the other two.
Once a Control Wizard decides you are locked down, that's it. You might as well take your hands off the keyboard because you will not be doing anything unless another ally disrupts them.
In group fights this adds an interesting dynamic to an extent. However not when facing off against a team that understands they have to protect the CW. It also gives CW's far too much power in stopping back capping. The end caps always provided a lot of interesting skirmishes but that doesn't exist with the new perma-lock situation. As long as a CW goes to defend the point against anything but a TR they will win that 1v1 fight.
It's not horribly broken...
But it should be toned down just a bit so there are chances to break the chain.
If your comparison with the GWF were for pre-mod4, then I'd agree with you but atm no. Roar and Takedown do no damages, even with Destroyer tree (which means we sacrify our Tanking). It's still easily dodgeable because Roar is a skillshot short range, CW's are locked-target with high range.
If we went Tanking, Roar and Takedown would do much less damages with more cooldowns. Roar (after interrupt) and Takedown duration can be reduced with Tenacity etc (companion boost active, enchant). Actual CW and GWF can't be compared, CW doesn't sacrify anything, GWF must a lot.
Storm Spell should have the damage buff reverted and get the 35% chance to proc back.
Eye of the Storm should have 5% chance to proc on power uses and affect all your allies instead of yourself only.
Assailing Force should make Arcane Mastery stacks increase the arcane damage by 6% for each stack, 30% for 5 stacks. This also would make Arcane Presence be useful, increasing the cold damage aswell.
CW should be reset back as it was in module 3. Right now this balance is the worst ever. CW op in pve and pvp. Game is on bottom seriously. Oh and that advice of ambisinisterr: Damage-wise I think they are fine. So long as I can keep attacking them and not be stuck in a block of ice for an hour I would be fine.
Try to convince about it all nerfed TR.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
If your comparison with the GWF were for pre-mod4, then I'd agree with you but atm no.
I was referring to Mod 3 GWF's. That combination was overpowered and was the leading cause for GWF's to need to be toned down. I was simply saying that it is the same with CW's atm.
There was no hope of escaping the GWF chain if you got hit by roar. There is no hope of escaping the chain if you get hit by Entangling Force or Chill Strike.
As it stands pvp now is just an fps between cws.
Its time for me to roll one, they will always be too good in pve and/or pvp. I see no risks this time.
If ppl thought HRs and GWFs where OP last mod, they havnt ran into the new even more donky OP CWs. Been doing a few pvps today and its not pvp anymore. Players die in 2-5 sec no mather what gear they have if 2 CWs target them. And plenty of good CWs dont enjoy playing it either cus they want BALANCE and fun, CWs used to be a superhard class to play and if u screwd up u got punished for it. Now they can just press the mouse, permafreeze anything and let the passivs do the damage, wait 5 sec and move to next target.
This is no fun for anyone, not a single class stands any chance to counter the CW, some might find this amusing tho. To finnaly be OP and kill everything in its way, but honestly i think the most ppl want balance and a fun game. This is a sad day for NW. I hope this getting a fix ASAP, meanwhile ill just lvl my SW
So what you're saying is that when a player faces 2 Cws he shouldn't die? I mean it's 2v1 fight and you expect that cws should be so weak they couldn't bring down another player even when 2v1? And why in Gods name should Cws be Super hard to play? Says who? You? I enjoy a simpler play style, so instead of this hate speech go play a cw and come back with some constructive feedback.
The ironic thing about all of these changes are in mod3 CWs were the one everyone targeted first in a battle because they were easy to kill. Now they are targeted first because they NEED to be killed.
The fact that so many CW are now in leaderboard is mostly because they have too high damage. CW was always in the best spot for pve so from begun of game cw community was the biggest. Now CW with their damage can kill TR in 3 seconds(even pve spec cw) while TR need to do a lot to kill them and takes a lot. And CW can kill any other class considerably fast. So i think that in this module there is no need to make any other class than CW. Imho that means that people who have CW class can easly run both pve and pvp, without bothering making other class. That will probably mean that CW will dominate even more, which in fact will result in that there won't be much variety in classes in game. And i would not blame players. WE only have to take a look on how easly you can play as cw in both pve and pvp to resign from playing other class. I have CW of my own and i can see it. I can look at it from distance how CW have easy life and other class struggle to find party on both pve and pvp. I am not sure the community wanted situation to look like it, but now it looks like it. Due to lower control CW will be even more needed in instance(more cw in parties less place for other players). And in pvp? When cw can knockout everyone, why bother taking other class. Reasonable solution due to current situation tells us any other class is not necessary.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
^^
Ok.I am 16,5 gs Dominion GF.Please enlighten me and tell me how to face a just 11-12 gs pvp cw toon.Steel grace don't work,villain's meance somehow do not gain action points while you block their freeze rays,elven battle enhancement don't work,lunging they freeze you in the air(*lol) .Please tell me what to do.
Turn on his team8s?That is when i ll be controlled more easily by him...forever.And then a sly flourish 10k gs Tr can hit me untill i die.Cause i ll be controlled by freeze and entagling force forever.
Which build you use and you have no prob with cws?
Icy rays ,penetrating the Gf shield is a known bug that will be fixed,so is Battle Elven Enchant that doesn't work for ages now. I'm sure the other issues you mention are bugs as well. So you see it's not fair to blame an entire class for Game bugs Cws have nothing to do with. Post them on the Bugs Thread and Hope that the Devs will fix them.
CW is a very hard a frustrating class to play. You think CW is OP? Roll one! In the meantime, I'll keep destroying you on my TR and HR, waiting for you to come back to the forums qqing about being too squishy on CW.
ESTUPRADOR
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited August 2014
As it stands pvp now is just an fps between cws.
Its time for me to roll one, they will always be too good in pve and/or pvp. I see no risks this time.
Don't make it a renegade. You'll be very disappointed. You'll be a whipping boy for everyone, including DCs
CW is a very hard a frustrating class to play. You think CW is OP? Roll one! In the meantime, I'll keep destroying you on my TR and HR, waiting for you to come back to the forums qqing about being too squishy on CW.
I'm a CW and a average player in PVP. I've tested it : Control is fine. The "Automatic damage" (read skilless) need to be adjusted/lowered just a little bit or reworked (assailant). If such damages are lowered, single target spells need a little strenght.
In the few matches i did, i found the GWF... missing (I never thought I'd say this one day). He didn't go very far with the CW and the HR around. I couldn't do much against them either. But it was fun and nice to not be killed in a blink.
Comments
Honestly I'd just take the CW and GWF from mod 3 and make some minor changes to reduce the awesomeness of CWs on PvE and reduce the awesomeness of GWFs on PvP.
+1 but also I felt sorry for cw players in mod 3 they wasn't as good as any pvp char or even gf lol so I'm glad they got a buff but its just too much.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Something that I think they should do is to make one of our single-target control powers ignore control immunity. This could be a daily, a capstone feat that affected an encounter (Entangling Force maybe) or something.
DC are going to suffer even more than they used to I'm afraid.
(I haven't played enough with my GF yet to get an impression).
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
GF is ridiculous. I used to hit ~40% uber tanky GFs for 28k Anvil of Doom crits without Knight's Challenge and vorpal. And my GF is only 14k GS. 12k Bull Charges and Lunging Strikes, infinite block, perma Knight's Valor. GFs are just plain stupid now, I hope they're happy. The only thing that stops them from complete facerolling is new CWs cause they can just freeze them through their shield while inflicting ~7k assailant hits.
Eleanor - CW (retired after Assailing nerf)
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
I'd say leave it the hell alone as it is.
Meanwhile TRs and DCs are playing red hands on the side. XD
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
But I would like to see the perma-lock go away.
I mean they can literally pick a target and say you are not moving anymore. If you have another team mate who can hit them over the head they tend to die real fast which somewhat makes it balanced but it makes CW's a 2v1 situation just because they will perma-lock you.
One thing I would like to see done is having dodge distrupt Ray of Frost. If Ray of Frost was not maintained through dodges it would be a lot more doable to face against while still a potent challenge with all of their other direct control powers.
Damage-wise I think they are fine. So long as I can keep attacking them and not be stuck in a block of ice for an hour I would be fine.
It was obvious it would be like that.
So, same as GWF, we were forced to choose between DAMAGES or TANKING, CWs must choose between DAMAGES or CONTROLS, but they have both in Mod4. That's simple.
As long as there is some hope of breaking out between links in the chain I have no problem with a lot of control. Right now this is similar to the GWF Roar, Takedown and IBS. If you get hit by roar you are guaranteed to be hit by the other two.
Once a Control Wizard decides you are locked down, that's it. You might as well take your hands off the keyboard because you will not be doing anything unless another ally disrupts them.
In group fights this adds an interesting dynamic to an extent. However not when facing off against a team that understands they have to protect the CW. It also gives CW's far too much power in stopping back capping. The end caps always provided a lot of interesting skirmishes but that doesn't exist with the new perma-lock situation. As long as a CW goes to defend the point against anything but a TR they will win that 1v1 fight.
It's not horribly broken...
But it should be toned down just a bit so there are chances to break the chain.
exactly 50% CW at the first site of the leaderboard . seems a little bit OP...
If we went Tanking, Roar and Takedown would do much less damages with more cooldowns. Roar (after interrupt) and Takedown duration can be reduced with Tenacity etc (companion boost active, enchant). Actual CW and GWF can't be compared, CW doesn't sacrify anything, GWF must a lot.
Eye of the Storm should have 5% chance to proc on power uses and affect all your allies instead of yourself only.
Assailing Force should make Arcane Mastery stacks increase the arcane damage by 6% for each stack, 30% for 5 stacks. This also would make Arcane Presence be useful, increasing the cold damage aswell.
This is what I have to suggest currently.
Damage-wise I think they are fine. So long as I can keep attacking them and not be stuck in a block of ice for an hour I would be fine.
Try to convince about it all nerfed TR.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I was referring to Mod 3 GWF's. That combination was overpowered and was the leading cause for GWF's to need to be toned down. I was simply saying that it is the same with CW's atm.
There was no hope of escaping the GWF chain if you got hit by roar. There is no hope of escaping the chain if you get hit by Entangling Force or Chill Strike.
Its time for me to roll one, they will always be too good in pve and/or pvp. I see no risks this time.
So what you're saying is that when a player faces 2 Cws he shouldn't die? I mean it's 2v1 fight and you expect that cws should be so weak they couldn't bring down another player even when 2v1? And why in Gods name should Cws be Super hard to play? Says who? You? I enjoy a simpler play style, so instead of this hate speech go play a cw and come back with some constructive feedback.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Icy rays ,penetrating the Gf shield is a known bug that will be fixed,so is Battle Elven Enchant that doesn't work for ages now. I'm sure the other issues you mention are bugs as well. So you see it's not fair to blame an entire class for Game bugs Cws have nothing to do with. Post them on the Bugs Thread and Hope that the Devs will fix them.
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
Don't make it a renegade. You'll be very disappointed. You'll be a whipping boy for everyone, including DCs
^ CW.
^ another CW.
In the few matches i did, i found the GWF... missing (I never thought I'd say this one day). He didn't go very far with the CW and the HR around. I couldn't do much against them either. But it was fun and nice to not be killed in a blink.
(bad english... i know... sorry)