If ppl thought HRs and GWFs where OP last mod, they havnt ran into the new even more donky OP CWs. Been doing a few pvps today and its not pvp anymore. Players die in 2-5 sec no mather what gear they have if 2 CWs target them. And plenty of good CWs dont enjoy playing it either cus they want BALANCE and fun, CWs used to be a superhard class to play and if u screwd up u got punished for it. Now they can just press the mouse, permafreeze anything and let the passivs do the damage, wait 5 sec and move to next target.
This is no fun for anyone, not a single class stands any chance to counter the CW, some might find this amusing tho. To finnaly be OP and kill everything in its way, but honestly i think the most ppl want balance and a fun game. This is a sad day for NW. I hope this getting a fix ASAP, meanwhile ill just lvl my SW
I can't say I can argue against you. Balance is nice but right now i've spent months enduring one way beatings in PVP (was at least somewhat competitive prior to tenacity) now i'm actually competitive again. Funny thing is I forgot to slot storm spell and I still ended up top kills on my CW. I can't say the class as a whole is out of balance I think their powers just got useful with being able to lock people in place which is not all that different from the neverending prones we used to endure.
So for now i'm actually winning pvp matches (much to my surprise my team won a 4 v 5 match with my team down 1 person and another in green gear). I'll actually be able to complete a profound set at this rate and i'll actually get my main character up that PVP campaign tree.
My only trouble is my HV set is actually useful again but i'm squishy as all get out in it so I find myself relying on my black ice gear more for pvp. I don't even use my blue dragon enchant as I'm not sure who to put it on since I have several characters.
Let's NOT keep nerfing classes all for the sake of PvP. More people play PvE anyway (polls have proven that fact), but the PvPer are definitely the biggest complainers - fact supported by forum content.
because cw arent broken OP in PvE as well as in PvP
Cws currently out of league but most players are not that good thanks god, at both building the toon and playing it.
Gfs/ hrs right after them. Very powerful.
Tra are still the best at holding points/ trolling enemies. Best pvp survivability if skilled and semi-perma.
Dcs tank with blue dragon gliph... can' t touch them, perhaps the only way They have to survive this CC/ DPS fest mod4 pvp is...
Gwf destro hits hard on most enemy, needs to go perma runner and hit and run. Less survivable than pretty much everything, seems to me like playing a melee version of my mod2 CW alt. not as powerful as current cws/ gfs/ hrs but in the hands of a skilled player, still dangerous. Sentinels idk. There are sure new builds using some feat and enchants to go full tank but still kill some enemies.
SW...seems pretty much in the same place as gwf destroyers. Must learn to use puppet has a shield to survive. Very strong DPS.
Devs need to tone down DPS in pvp where it is clearly too high, And fix all the bugged stuff killing players in seconds. Then we could have balance.
I agree with a lot of what you said......pre-glyph and oghma token shenanigans becoming widespread.
Now its just a trollfest all around. CW aren't the best class. Its which team has those 2 broken mechanics stacked which are the most troll.
I agree with a lot of what you said......pre-glyph and oghma token shenanigans becoming widespread.
Now its just a trollfest all around. CW aren't the best class. Its which team has those 2 broken mechanics stacked which are the most troll.
Yeah, right now, the most powerful class is a GF using double greater blue dragon glyphs with knight's valor turned on, followed by a GWF with double greater blue dragon glyphs.
The only counter to either of these is one of the same class with double blue dragon glyphs determined to kill themselves to take them out.
It's incredibly expensive (600k AD for 2 hours of PVP), but I know at least one GWF is doing it, and double lessers would have about the same effect anyway.
I'm glad that CWs have become such huge death dealing monsters. Because it's broken pvp out of the survival at all costs, wet noodle damage mind set. Now everyone's going the opposite way - how much dps can my toon put out..?
Close matches were long and boring in mod 3, sit on a node with a DC or a TR and stalemate eachother, while whoever's left tries to beat each other to death with pillows. That's how it felt sometimes anyway, on my HR.
So, thank god for the CWs, long may you (try to) reign.
And the blue dragon glyphs can stay awhile too. Talk about AD sink. The OCD pvp guilders will bankrupt themselves. "Got yer pots..? Check. Got yer glyphs..? Er... well... erm... look, can you lend me a tenner..?"
Was going to say that Jonkoca. The meta is shifting. You can see just by the release of the Orgihammer whatever artifact.
High Burst, CC. Strong premades will roll over lower pugs if ELO doesnt match up better, even faster. You pretty much will be able to run to other spawn immediately FF their strongest CCrs and burster. And call it a match.
Now everyone's going the opposite way - how much dps can my toon put out..?
Not at all true. GWFs went sentinel. TRs still perma-stealth. DCs will still try to get as tanky as possible (which won't help much).
Survivability will ALWAYS be important in PvP. CWs will stack as much HP as possible, etc. -they don't HAVE to try to build their character's gear thinking "how much dps can my toon put out...?". That just comes down to having the right feats and using the right powers. (Obviously).
The "meta" isn't shifting. They just introduced a broken class that can melt just about anything in PvP when played right. That's called broken.
The "meta" isn't shifting. They just introduced a broken class that can melt just about anything in PvP when played right. That's called broken.
That's the point, the only way to beat an enemy team stacked with CWs, will be to burn them down faster than they can cc you. There's no other way if as you say, they can melt any defence. Pvp is always broken in some way, that's part of the meta too. It's just a case of where, how much, and who is willing to exploit it.
But, the problem will still remains: you can mitigate all CW damage from now on (which is correct, in fact, i would remove the damage piercing from HR melee too but this is my opinion) yet the class will do more damage than intended. Is not the same to mitigate 1k damage than 1.2k damage. If this fix the "extra" damage, then, perfect, otherwise, you just still have the main problem.
Well, the main reason damage was increased on storm spell and assailant was added is because CW sucked in mod3 in PVP. Have to wait until Thursday to see if CW is still too strong.
I personally thing it may be enough of a fix. Unmitigated damage is the reason CWs melt tanky classes so fast.
Well, the main reason damage was increased on storm spell and assailant was added is because CW sucked in mod3 in PVP. Have to wait until Thursday to see if CW is still too strong.
I personally thing it may be enough of a fix. Unmitigated damage is the reason CWs melt tanky classes so fast.
You are wrong. The problem has never been assailing in its current format.
The problem revolves around the issue that Storm Spell is proccing more often than it should and the massive damage boost it received. As a BiZ geared CW My storm spell can double proc and crit as high as 25k damage. From a passive. And thats AFTER mitigation. That is what is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Assailing as it sits (Average hit is 3-5k) is fine. Where it becomes broken is with the current state of Storm Spell.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I completly dissagree with you in that "because CW sucked in mod3 in PvP" sentenced you just did. I explained a lot of times i could kill a 15kGS GWF with my 12k (i think, cause right now i don't know if i got more or less GS on this new mod 4. XD) Thaum set Renegade CW... and i do not main CW-class... so, then, maybe, is just a "player side problem trying to make it a game side problem" (i found a lot of this kind of players in LoL and WoW communities). And, in fact (as a side note), i have met a lot of really good CW-players on Test and told me the same thing: CW-class were near to balanced together GWF-class on mod 3 to go under these buffs/nerfs... and i really agreed with them.
There were almost no CWs in the top pages of the leaderboard in mod3. You can go ahead and think you are especially skillful, but plenty of CWs including myself could work shard on tab well and still underperform greatly in mod3.
Also, in some ways mod3 CW was better against mod3 GWF than the current matchup, since GWFs are practically totally un-cc'able now. But that was just one isolated case. Overall CWs were much worse off.
This should be obvious...
You are wrong. The problem has never been assailing in its current format.
The problem revolves around the issue that Storm Spell is proccing more often than it should and the massive damage boost it received. As a BiZ geared CW My storm spell can double proc and crit as high as 25k damage. From a passive. And thats AFTER mitigation. That is what is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Assailing as it sits (Average hit is 3-5k) is fine. Where it becomes broken is with the current state of Storm Spell.
I don't see any double procs when I play. Assailing hits for like 10k currently. It won't do that on Thursday.
I don't see any double procs when I play. Assailing hits for like 10k currently. It won't do that on Thursday.
I see double procs all the time. All the time. I double proc nearly as often as assailing hits. I am not sure where you are getting your figure for Assailing, The highest I have seen is 7kish from memory (in pvp), and thats using Formorian Orb. Above 10k in pve for sure. But definitely not in PvP.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I see double procs all the time. All the time. I double proc nearly as often as assailing hits. I am not sure where you are getting your figure for Assailing, The highest I have seen is 7kish from memory (in pvp), and thats using Formorian Orb. Above 10k in pve for sure. But definitely not in PvP.
I can get procs back to back. Maybe that's what you're talking about? It seems like a genuine 20% chance to me when I spam ray of frost which hits fast.
It is weird how damage would be more in PVE than PVP on assailing since it's not supposed to be currently mitigatable. I guess the limiting factor isn't weapon damage in PVP but instead is %hp. Which is weird because for some reason I'm able to get more than 800% weapon damage in PVE...
So I guess you're right, but against tankier targets it should do much less.
I'd wait until Thursday to see if it's enough of a change.
On the 5 kill top pages, the main class were the HR class, followed by GWF and TRs. CWs were not far behind from them all... but then, you see the ratios of most of them and you will understand a thing: the die 5 times less than other classes. Also, im pretty sure you didnt take into account that most of those players were on premade teams, not on pugs which made them "players who know how to play PvP". If you meant the "mass" of CW-players, then, you would saw they die 8 times more than the "mass" of GWF and HR... TOGETHER... which should tell you a thing or two about them...
But, coming back to our now and new mod and back into our main topic, if you check the leaderboard, you will find that Max killers on PvP (GG the most) are CW-class players with almost not deads... In fact, my last GG season (to show a friend how bad the GWF-class is but i felt like they fixed our armor again, i need to check it ASAP and to show him the Blue Glyph madness. xD) 10 top players where CWs: first one were 21 - 2 and second one 21 - 4 or so, so, we went from "a good class" to a "OP class" due those changes.
CWs are squishy then and squishy now. The main thing that determines how many deaths you get is your team.
I think the vast majority of people would disagree that CWs were a good PVP class in mod3, unless you want to say that every class was good in mod3.
Almost all of the changes are clearly intended to help CWs in PVP.
1 - Agree, so, that should tell you a thing or two about the "mass"
2 - If by "vast majority of CW-players" you mean the CW-players whose thought that to kill any other class is to stand in a point, do "Q Tab E R" and go to the next target or the ones who entered in PvP with greens, i am pretty sure you are right and they will tell me that CW-class on PvP were not really good... and i will ignore them, as you should do too due obvious facts. :-) . And explain better "every class was good at PvP in mod 3" because this would be a "yes" or a "no" depending on which way you said this sentence.
3 - I would say "Almost all of the changes are clearly intended to make DEVs play PvP better than the last time they did" OR "almost all of the changes are clearly intended to help CWs. Period"
1. It tells me that the "mass" didn't run with a premade to hide behind...
The main thing that separated good from bad CWs was if you could work shard on tab well, but even then you lost to most classes in an even match most of the time.
2. No, I mean the populace in general. There were tons of threads about CWs being UP in PVP. I could own just about any CW on my HR, TR or GWF.
3. I mean the CW changes specifically. It's a huge boost to single-target damage and control, which are both great for PVP.
I disagree that cws needed a DPS buff. Their offensive capability was OK. That, including shard, should've been left untouched in pvp. All They needed was to have their cc back and the buff to shield. And aoe DPS nerf for pve.
This considering the nerfs to gwf/hrs, would have been more balanced.
Also, OK to GF tankyness buff. But DPS needed may be a slight buff only. It's a tank class.
I disagree that cws needed a DPS buff. Their offensive capability was OK. That, including shard, should've been left untouched in pvp. All They needed was to have their cc back and the buff to shield. And aoe DPS nerf for pve.
This considering the nerfs to gwf/hrs, would have been more balanced.
Also, OK to GF tankyness buff. But DPS needed may be a slight buff only. It's a tank class.
I agree completely. Shard hit for huge amounts. But they definitely some better defensive buffs.
I also think GF should be more of a point holder than point clearer.
The funny thing is my w/l% was better in mod3 on my hr then mod4 with my CW.
I'm killing people like crazy on my CW, but killing people fast isn't nearly as effective as being able to contest a node and stay on it for a really long time.
You can theoretically help the other team by killing an opponent even. Like if they're somewhere off a node, and you send them to their spawn with a short cooldown, and someone on your team is contesting their node. They'll get to their point fast and actually affect the score where they weren't before you killed them.
- Shard Oppressor for maximum control (high control, long cooldowns, low damage, only viable in premades, but very effective there)
- Thaum with Icy Rays on TAB (medium control, medium damage, solo queue friendly, I have only one BiS PvP CW in mind that went for this build), PvE tree
- Renegade with RoE on TAB (low control, short cooldowns, high damage, required a lot of co-ordination practice between the people you play premades with due to the low control, very solo queue friendly since it was a pure 1v1 build)
All 3 builds had something in common: if you dodged all the GWF's encounters and you had an Ice Knife, he went down. Same goes for other classes (HR's CA, etc.). You had to dodge a lot in order to "take a shot". But when you actually did it, you got rewarded by high burst damage (or prones for your team in case of Oppressor).
Now on Live, all those 3 builds have something else in common: their damage doesn't even tickle the target due to the heavy nerfs for the sake of PvE. The single target nerfs. That no one asked for.
Now, let's look at Live:
Oppressor: Deals ~50% less damage than Thaumaturge with Assailant. In a group fight (2v2, 3v3, etc.) it's almost impossible to pull off perma-freeze, because you get attacked and have to move.
Renegade: People went for this build for high single target damage. Magic Missile dealt ~30% more damage than RoF and gave Arcane Stacks, which were important for the Renegade's burst. Now 30% of the rotation damage came from RoE, which was now nerfed in damage and got significantly higher cooldowns. Magic Missile got nerfed to hell. It deals less damage than Ray of Frost! So, if you are a CW and have a choice: An At-Will that deals higher damage AND slows and freezes the target (and procs Storm spell and Assailant like crazy :cool:) OR an At-Will that has lower damage and has no additional effect? What do you choose?
No one asked for these changes. Absolutely no one. Every time we tested things on preview and made suggestions, we just went WTF every time they announced new changes. I was following everything from page 1 to 100+ and was making tons of suggestions to balance things out for each of the 3 paths, while nerfing CWs in PvE (even more than they have nerfed it now). Nothing was implemented we were asking for. For example, when people were asking for a Renegade-specific EotS buff through feats and a damage buff on Magic Missile, we got an EotS buff for all paths and the new Storm Spell (which no one asked for). Magic Missile got buffed by an amount that still put it under RoF (damage-wise). Shard deals the same damage as 1 - 2 RoF ticks (without Assailant or Storm Spell of course).
They completely broke the CW. But before the implementation of the new EotS and Storm Spell, CW was a rag doll (especially in PvE). Not a single CW I know likes these changes. CW is extremely boring to play, and there's no alternative. If you would nerf SS or EotS as they are now, there would be no room for skill. CW doesn't need a nerf to be fun, balanced and viable. It needs a complete rework!
Trust me, the fun of just pressing RoF all the time without any dynamics is pretty limited. That's why I'm rolling a Warlock now.
- Shard Oppressor for maximum control (high control, long cooldowns, low damage, only viable in premades, but very effective there)
- Thaum with Icy Rays on TAB (medium control, medium damage, solo queue friendly, I have only one BiS PvP CW in mind that went for this build), PvE tree
- Renegade with RoE on TAB (low control, short cooldowns, high damage, required a lot of co-ordination practice between the people you play premades with due to the low control, very solo queue friendly since it was a pure 1v1 build)
All 3 builds had something in common: if you dodged all the GWF's encounters and you had an Ice Knife, he went down. Same goes for other classes (HR's CA, etc.). You had to dodge a lot in order to "take a shot". But when you actually did it, you got rewarded by high burst damage (or prones for your team in case of Oppressor).
Now on Live, all those 3 builds have something else in common: their damage doesn't even tickle the target due to the heavy nerfs for the sake of PvE. The single target nerfs. That no one asked for.
Now, let's look at Live:
Oppressor: Deals ~50% less damage than Thaumaturge with Assailant. In a group fight (2v2, 3v3, etc.) it's almost impossible to pull off perma-freeze, because you get attacked and have to move.
Renegade: People went for this build for high single target damage. Magic Missile dealt ~30% more damage than RoF and gave Arcane Stacks, which were important for the Renegade's burst. Now 30% of the rotation damage came from RoE, which was now nerfed in damage and got significantly higher cooldowns. Magic Missile got nerfed to hell. It deals less damage than Ray of Frost! So, if you are a CW and have a choice: An At-Will that deals higher damage AND slows and freezes the target (and procs Storm spell and Assailant like crazy :cool:) OR an At-Will that has lower damage and has no additional effect? What do you choose?
No one asked for these changes. Absolutely no one. Every time we tested things on preview and made suggestions, we just went WTF every time they announced new changes. I was following everything from page 1 to 100+ and was making tons of suggestions to balance things out for each of the 3 paths, while nerfing CWs in PvE (even more than they have nerfed it now). Nothing was implemented we were asking for. For example, when people were asking for a Renegade-specific EotS buff through feats and a damage buff on Magic Missile, we got an EotS buff for all paths and the new Storm Spell (which no one asked for). Magic Missile got buffed by an amount that still put it under RoF (damage-wise). Shard deals the same damage as 1 - 2 RoF ticks (without Assailant or Storm Spell of course).
They completely broke the CW. But before the implementation of the new EotS and Storm Spell, CW was a rag doll (especially in PvE). Not a single CW I know likes these changes. CW is extremely boring to play, and there's no alternative. If you would nerf SS or EotS as they are now, there would be no room for skill. CW doesn't need a nerf to be fun, balanced and viable. It needs a complete rework!
Trust me, the fun of just pressing RoF all the time without any dynamics is pretty limited. That's why I'm rolling a Warlock now.
+ 1 to this (Except for the Warlock part - RIP Old school Thauma Icy Rays damage - Although, Rays on Tab can still hit and crit for extremely interesting numbers ^.^ )
Regarding up coming changes to Cws again. None of us asked for Assailing Force or the buff to Storm Spell. Every single one of the PvP Biz Bws commented on how broken Assailing Force was on Preview, and every single one of us did the same thing with Storm Spell.
All we ask, is for our damage to be brought back to encounters, Random procs (I am only talking Storm Spell Here) to be reduced back to Previous Live State.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
for me everything is fine as it is now, they just need to lower CW damage, cause they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> kill me in 3 -4 sec, im 16k gs pvp build
Why did you ignore that guy? With Orb of Imposition CWs can lock down any target in permanent CC, and while their target is immune (if they have tools for) they just dodge dozens of times due to Severe Reaction, and then unload their CC chain again.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
+ 1 to this (Except for the Warlock part - RIP Old school Thauma Icy Rays damage - Although, Rays on Tab can still hit and crit for extremely interesting numbers ^.^ )
Regarding up coming changes to Cws again. None of us asked for Assailing Force or the buff to Storm Spell. Every single one of the PvP Biz Bws commented on how broken Assailing Force was on Preview, and every single one of us did the same thing with Storm Spell.
All we ask, is for our damage to be brought back to encounters, Random procs (I am only talking Storm Spell Here) to be reduced back to Previous Live State.
I'm not sure why you guys are so anxious to play mod3 CW against GWFs you can't CC and GFs with tons of HP and damage.
I'm guessing the main reason is because other CWs not in BIS gear can kill you just about as easy as you can kill them.
As far as skill being gone, if you weren't playing shard on tab there's no difference between the amount of skill used now and then. It's just now you kill things, before you got killed.
And what I remember most from testing is not BIS CWs complaining about storm spell and assailing force, it's CWs complaining about HRs.
You guys want to paint some picture like "I tried so hard not to be OP but they made me do it!" It's pretty funny.
Right now HRs could be a decent counter to CWs if you guys didn't work en-masse to get wild's medicine nerfed.
Why did you ignore that guy? With Orb of Imposition CWs can lock down any target in permanent CC, and while their target is immune (if they have tools for) they just dodge dozens of times due to Severe Reaction, and then unload their CC chain again.
Is that dozen dodges related to the 16 dodges I heard HR gets?
Comments
I can't say I can argue against you. Balance is nice but right now i've spent months enduring one way beatings in PVP (was at least somewhat competitive prior to tenacity) now i'm actually competitive again. Funny thing is I forgot to slot storm spell and I still ended up top kills on my CW. I can't say the class as a whole is out of balance I think their powers just got useful with being able to lock people in place which is not all that different from the neverending prones we used to endure.
So for now i'm actually winning pvp matches (much to my surprise my team won a 4 v 5 match with my team down 1 person and another in green gear). I'll actually be able to complete a profound set at this rate and i'll actually get my main character up that PVP campaign tree.
My only trouble is my HV set is actually useful again but i'm squishy as all get out in it so I find myself relying on my black ice gear more for pvp. I don't even use my blue dragon enchant as I'm not sure who to put it on since I have several characters.
because cw arent broken OP in PvE as well as in PvP
I agree with a lot of what you said......pre-glyph and oghma token shenanigans becoming widespread.
Now its just a trollfest all around. CW aren't the best class. Its which team has those 2 broken mechanics stacked which are the most troll.
Yeah, right now, the most powerful class is a GF using double greater blue dragon glyphs with knight's valor turned on, followed by a GWF with double greater blue dragon glyphs.
The only counter to either of these is one of the same class with double blue dragon glyphs determined to kill themselves to take them out.
It's incredibly expensive (600k AD for 2 hours of PVP), but I know at least one GWF is doing it, and double lessers would have about the same effect anyway.
Close matches were long and boring in mod 3, sit on a node with a DC or a TR and stalemate eachother, while whoever's left tries to beat each other to death with pillows. That's how it felt sometimes anyway, on my HR.
So, thank god for the CWs, long may you (try to) reign.
And the blue dragon glyphs can stay awhile too. Talk about AD sink.
High Burst, CC. Strong premades will roll over lower pugs if ELO doesnt match up better, even faster. You pretty much will be able to run to other spawn immediately FF their strongest CCrs and burster. And call it a match.
It does encourage teamwork. I suppose. FF CW. GG
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Not at all true. GWFs went sentinel. TRs still perma-stealth. DCs will still try to get as tanky as possible (which won't help much).
Survivability will ALWAYS be important in PvP. CWs will stack as much HP as possible, etc. -they don't HAVE to try to build their character's gear thinking "how much dps can my toon put out...?". That just comes down to having the right feats and using the right powers. (Obviously).
The "meta" isn't shifting. They just introduced a broken class that can melt just about anything in PvP when played right. That's called broken.
They definitely are going to, look at the preview forum.
That's the point, the only way to beat an enemy team stacked with CWs, will be to burn them down faster than they can cc you. There's no other way if as you say, they can melt any defence. Pvp is always broken in some way, that's part of the meta too. It's just a case of where, how much, and who is willing to exploit it.
I agree with jonkoca though that PVP is much more exciting now. Playing survival HR was boring as hell in mod3.
I don't know what you mean by that. CWs will still be bursting hard, but now at least you can mitigate all of it.
Well, the main reason damage was increased on storm spell and assailant was added is because CW sucked in mod3 in PVP. Have to wait until Thursday to see if CW is still too strong.
I personally thing it may be enough of a fix. Unmitigated damage is the reason CWs melt tanky classes so fast.
You are wrong. The problem has never been assailing in its current format.
The problem revolves around the issue that Storm Spell is proccing more often than it should and the massive damage boost it received. As a BiZ geared CW My storm spell can double proc and crit as high as 25k damage. From a passive. And thats AFTER mitigation. That is what is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Assailing as it sits (Average hit is 3-5k) is fine. Where it becomes broken is with the current state of Storm Spell.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
There were almost no CWs in the top pages of the leaderboard in mod3. You can go ahead and think you are especially skillful, but plenty of CWs including myself could work shard on tab well and still underperform greatly in mod3.
Also, in some ways mod3 CW was better against mod3 GWF than the current matchup, since GWFs are practically totally un-cc'able now. But that was just one isolated case. Overall CWs were much worse off.
This should be obvious...
I don't see any double procs when I play. Assailing hits for like 10k currently. It won't do that on Thursday.
I see double procs all the time. All the time. I double proc nearly as often as assailing hits. I am not sure where you are getting your figure for Assailing, The highest I have seen is 7kish from memory (in pvp), and thats using Formorian Orb. Above 10k in pve for sure. But definitely not in PvP.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I can get procs back to back. Maybe that's what you're talking about? It seems like a genuine 20% chance to me when I spam ray of frost which hits fast.
It is weird how damage would be more in PVE than PVP on assailing since it's not supposed to be currently mitigatable. I guess the limiting factor isn't weapon damage in PVP but instead is %hp. Which is weird because for some reason I'm able to get more than 800% weapon damage in PVE...
So I guess you're right, but against tankier targets it should do much less.
I'd wait until Thursday to see if it's enough of a change.
CWs are squishy then and squishy now. The main thing that determines how many deaths you get is your team.
I think the vast majority of people would disagree that CWs were a good PVP class in mod3, unless you want to say that every class was good in mod3.
Almost all of the changes are clearly intended to help CWs in PVP.
1. It tells me that the "mass" didn't run with a premade to hide behind...
The main thing that separated good from bad CWs was if you could work shard on tab well, but even then you lost to most classes in an even match most of the time.
2. No, I mean the populace in general. There were tons of threads about CWs being UP in PVP. I could own just about any CW on my HR, TR or GWF.
3. I mean the CW changes specifically. It's a huge boost to single-target damage and control, which are both great for PVP.
This considering the nerfs to gwf/hrs, would have been more balanced.
Also, OK to GF tankyness buff. But DPS needed may be a slight buff only. It's a tank class.
I agree completely. Shard hit for huge amounts. But they definitely some better defensive buffs.
I also think GF should be more of a point holder than point clearer.
I'm killing people like crazy on my CW, but killing people fast isn't nearly as effective as being able to contest a node and stay on it for a really long time.
You can theoretically help the other team by killing an opponent even. Like if they're somewhere off a node, and you send them to their spawn with a short cooldown, and someone on your team is contesting their node. They'll get to their point fast and actually affect the score where they weren't before you killed them.
- Shard Oppressor for maximum control (high control, long cooldowns, low damage, only viable in premades, but very effective there)
- Thaum with Icy Rays on TAB (medium control, medium damage, solo queue friendly, I have only one BiS PvP CW in mind that went for this build), PvE tree
- Renegade with RoE on TAB (low control, short cooldowns, high damage, required a lot of co-ordination practice between the people you play premades with due to the low control, very solo queue friendly since it was a pure 1v1 build)
All 3 builds had something in common: if you dodged all the GWF's encounters and you had an Ice Knife, he went down. Same goes for other classes (HR's CA, etc.). You had to dodge a lot in order to "take a shot". But when you actually did it, you got rewarded by high burst damage (or prones for your team in case of Oppressor).
Now on Live, all those 3 builds have something else in common: their damage doesn't even tickle the target due to the heavy nerfs for the sake of PvE. The single target nerfs. That no one asked for.
Now, let's look at Live:
Oppressor: Deals ~50% less damage than Thaumaturge with Assailant. In a group fight (2v2, 3v3, etc.) it's almost impossible to pull off perma-freeze, because you get attacked and have to move.
Renegade: People went for this build for high single target damage. Magic Missile dealt ~30% more damage than RoF and gave Arcane Stacks, which were important for the Renegade's burst. Now 30% of the rotation damage came from RoE, which was now nerfed in damage and got significantly higher cooldowns. Magic Missile got nerfed to hell. It deals less damage than Ray of Frost! So, if you are a CW and have a choice: An At-Will that deals higher damage AND slows and freezes the target (and procs Storm spell and Assailant like crazy :cool:) OR an At-Will that has lower damage and has no additional effect? What do you choose?
No one asked for these changes. Absolutely no one. Every time we tested things on preview and made suggestions, we just went WTF every time they announced new changes. I was following everything from page 1 to 100+ and was making tons of suggestions to balance things out for each of the 3 paths, while nerfing CWs in PvE (even more than they have nerfed it now). Nothing was implemented we were asking for. For example, when people were asking for a Renegade-specific EotS buff through feats and a damage buff on Magic Missile, we got an EotS buff for all paths and the new Storm Spell (which no one asked for). Magic Missile got buffed by an amount that still put it under RoF (damage-wise). Shard deals the same damage as 1 - 2 RoF ticks (without Assailant or Storm Spell of course).
They completely broke the CW. But before the implementation of the new EotS and Storm Spell, CW was a rag doll (especially in PvE). Not a single CW I know likes these changes. CW is extremely boring to play, and there's no alternative. If you would nerf SS or EotS as they are now, there would be no room for skill. CW doesn't need a nerf to be fun, balanced and viable. It needs a complete rework!
Trust me, the fun of just pressing RoF all the time without any dynamics is pretty limited. That's why I'm rolling a Warlock now.
+ 1 to this (Except for the Warlock part - RIP Old school Thauma Icy Rays damage
Regarding up coming changes to Cws again. None of us asked for Assailing Force or the buff to Storm Spell. Every single one of the PvP Biz Bws commented on how broken Assailing Force was on Preview, and every single one of us did the same thing with Storm Spell.
All we ask, is for our damage to be brought back to encounters, Random procs (I am only talking Storm Spell Here) to be reduced back to Previous Live State.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Why did you ignore that guy? With Orb of Imposition CWs can lock down any target in permanent CC, and while their target is immune (if they have tools for) they just dodge dozens of times due to Severe Reaction, and then unload their CC chain again.
I'm not sure why you guys are so anxious to play mod3 CW against GWFs you can't CC and GFs with tons of HP and damage.
I'm guessing the main reason is because other CWs not in BIS gear can kill you just about as easy as you can kill them.
As far as skill being gone, if you weren't playing shard on tab there's no difference between the amount of skill used now and then. It's just now you kill things, before you got killed.
And what I remember most from testing is not BIS CWs complaining about storm spell and assailing force, it's CWs complaining about HRs.
You guys want to paint some picture like "I tried so hard not to be OP but they made me do it!" It's pretty funny.
Right now HRs could be a decent counter to CWs if you guys didn't work en-masse to get wild's medicine nerfed.
Is that dozen dodges related to the 16 dodges I heard HR gets?
I can dodge infinitely as CW if I get hit by melee character especially if they have plaguefire.