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Announcing the Dragonborn Race

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  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Here's something of note: The 30-Slot Bag is available to ALL CHARACTERS ON ACCOUNT (each can only claim one).

    No way!

    Surely not? That makes it worth 14,000 Zen for me already. Just for the bag! And 6 more slots than a Greater Bag of Holding! Of which I have 12 (which I got from the AH for 240k to 320k AD each).

    I can't even work out how many Shared Bank Account Slots would give me that much storage space! No wonder they did not include 1.5 million free AD as well!

    Are you absolutely CERTAIN about this? I checked very carefully, as I did before I bought Knights of the Feywild, and I did a mini-review for my Guild about the value of that pack at £30.00 from Steam (now £45.00).

    I used the same thought process for the Dragonborn as well, and it fell very short of VFM, as it said that the bag was redeemable once per account. Just as the Embroidered bag was.

    I'll have to check this out.

    If this is true, PE is going to be crawling with nothing but Dragonborn on August 14th.

    But then, there was that recent thing where they showed Epic companions and when you bought the required things on the Zen market, you got a Green Companion.

    ~
  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I had a look and that page is now very different.

    The Artefact is Rank 60 instead of Rank 1 and t says that the Bag is claimable once per character. It never said that before.

    As long as it is not claimable once per Dragonborn character, and Halflings, Dwarves, Tieflings etc can get it as well...
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'll be happy to confirm the bag (and ring) are claimable on every character on account for any fence-sitters. Of course by then it will cost you full price (an additional $25). Personally I have zero doubts about it (I've purchased enough of these kind of things from Cryptic over the last few years that I'm pretty comfortable with how they tend to phrase things).

    ~snicker~
  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Personally I have zero doubts about it (I've purchased enough of these kind of things from Cryptic over the last few years that I'm pretty comfortable with how they tend to phrase things).

    Well, they did not phrase the rank of the companion very well for the last Zen Market special, showing a Purple when it was actually a Green.

    But I am convinced. They have definitely blinked as they have changed the information. And if the bag was always one per character, it would have been pointed out long before this as it has been mentioned multiple times in this thread.

    I suspect the pre-sales figures were very low and, due to the number of whales with more sense than money who have posted here, they had a re-think.

    Here is the mini-review of KotF:
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?714881-Announcing-the-Dragonborn-Race&p=8500541&viewfull=1#post8500541


    And here is my identical-style analysis of the Dragonborn pack. The bag was not once per character and the artefact was Rank 1:
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?714881-Announcing-the-Dragonborn-Race&p=8554221&viewfull=1#post8554221


    I am going to order it now!


    But if it turns out to be a scam, I will want my money back.


    Cheers!
  • rapticorrapticor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,078 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    When the page initially went up the bag did not specify one way or the other like some of the other items did and I actually made a post about that. It was just left to you imagination if it was claimable only once per account or claimable once per character. So it's nice they actually added some clarification. Since bag space isn't really an issue for me it's probably not quite enough to convince me. They really should have at least thrown in a companion even if it was just a reskin of an existing one.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    But if it turns out to be a scam, I will want my money back.

    Likewise, I've put in my order, but if this is some kind of bait-and-switch I'll take appropriate steps.
    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • ixalmarisixalmaris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I suspect the pre-sales figures were very low and, due to the number of whales with more sense than money who have posted here, they had a re-think.

    And I just lost some more faith in humanity because so many whales fall for this cheap marketing trick and spend silly amounts of money for this pack in complete disregard of what that kind of money can buy (like whole games).
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ixalmaris wrote: »
    And I just lost some more faith in humanity because so many whales fall for this cheap marketing trick and spend silly amounts of money for this pack in complete disregard of what that kind of money can buy (like whole games).

    MMOs can't be compared to stand-alone games when it comes to price. MMOs incur ongoing costs that warrant ongoing payment.

    When Warlords of Draenor drops WoW fans will be tapped for (at a guess) another $50-60, more for the "collector's edition". For content upgrades with new classes and races that's where we'd be under a traditional subscription-based model.
    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • ixalmarisixalmaris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    dheffernan wrote: »
    MMOs can't be compared to stand-alone games when it comes to price. MMOs incur ongoing costs that warrant ongoing payment.

    When Warlords of Draenor drops WoW fans will be tapped for (at a guess) another $50-60, more for the "collector's edition". For content upgrades with new classes and races that's where we'd be under a traditional subscription-based model.

    Even among MMOs the prices Cryptic uses are outrageous as is their tactic of bundling them up with items which do not cost them anything to hide the cost of what they want to sell you.
    There are many MMO games out there with much more fair policy.
    Also, while Cryptic always wants us to believe that Neverwinter is just barely breaking even and that the game has to close if they lose just a little bit of money, the truth is that F2P games rake in cash like there is no tomorrow and Cryptic is just gouging the people with more money than sense.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ixalmaris wrote: »
    Even among MMOs the prices Cryptic uses are outrageous

    If you apply that argument across the entire range of F2P MMOs I think you will lose badly. There are a lot of those out there and some of their pricing structures approach the level of war crimes. If you open the doors to F2P mobile games it gets even worse:

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-iphone-games-that-clearly-hate-player-tested/

    Now, there are games with more fair business models. Cryptic even runs two of them. Personally I'd rather NW was run like CO and STO. But as long as you exercise a modicum of sense and self-restraint NW isn't objectionable.
    as is their tactic of bundling them up with items which do not cost them anything to hide the cost of what they want to sell you.

    I will agree that the Dragonborn pack does contain a lot of filler. The parts of the pack that have defensible value are the Dragonborn unlock, the race change token, the character slot, the bag and (now) the artifact. I exclude the fashion sets because I expect the vast majority of purchasers would not buy them if they were not included but sold separately. I had earlier estimated the value of the bag at $15, given existing bag prices. At that price as an account-wide item the pack is paid for right there for me, as most of my characters have only the in-game bags. My argument throughout has been that the value of the pack can be established by comparison to existing NW store prices and with these changes I'd say the price is reasonable. Players who already have many bags may feel otherwise. Likewise a purple artifact for every character saves a lot of time and effort in refining, but if you've already got high-level artifacts on your characters and don't plan to make many more that may not matter to you. Again, my point has been that the subjective worth of the pack is completely different from the objective value and that only the latter could be debated. Had they added and account-wide mount and/or companion that would not have made the pack worth much more to me because I already have those things, but I would have dropped my objections to the pack's value nevertheless.
    There are many MMO games out there with much more fair policy.

    So play them instead.
    Also, while Cryptic always wants us to believe that Neverwinter is just barely breaking even and that the game has to close if they lose just a little bit of money

    I don't believe anyone at Cryptic has made this argument, though the reddit posts came close.
    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • dnaiel8838dnaiel8838 Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I don't know about you guys but I'm happy that I bought this pack. I saw the update of the pack.

    First the artifact, instead of from uncommon now it is already a level 60 artifact that can be claimed by all character.

    10570372_10152261727168663_4095094502635632008_n.jpg?oh=03374fd15942bda41015a78a5cee053e&oe=545D3E88&__gda__=1416356599_403e47a0b5fc78c33b8ec278daffc61d

    Second, the bag can be claimed by all character.

    10176001_10152261734018663_6068054326042607131_n.jpg?oh=f6aac9b03b642c26f4c8021a1ddae9cb&oe=546FB61C&__gda__=1417406218_31a545b3e0a98f00ad3e76c002058225

    Third, ring can be claimed by all character in your account.

    10351904_10152261738328663_8475812817006289763_n.jpg?oh=c4048ab17d6227b896377144c1db769c&oe=54780EBB

    IMO from this 3 equipment alone I guess the $75 was already compensated and I'm very happy with it because it comes with other goodies especially the Change Race Token which I think will be expensive if purchased in Zen Market.
  • candinho2candinho2 Member Posts: 550 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Dear Perfectworld, is there a chance to you update your billing website for Brazilians? I cannot buy anything from there except zen and hero of the north pack, i want dragonborn back.
  • hmdq#4491 hmdq Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Link is broken??? I just can not access or this anyway: "page not found"???
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    hquadros wrote: »
    Link is broken??? I just can not access or this anyway: "page not found"???

    Try clearing your cache maybe. Just visited the link with no problems.
  • hmdq#4491 hmdq Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Try clearing your cache maybe. Just visited the link with no problems.

    Not working :/
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    hquadros wrote: »
    Not working :/

    Ok some question then:
    Can you visit arcgames.com at all?
    What is your browser and is it updated to the latest version?
    What is your OS?
    What country are you in? Does that country have any restrictions on the internet?
    Are you running any kind of net nanny program?

    Best I can think of to help you, maybe one of the answers there will be the culprit.
  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ixalmaris wrote: »
    And I just lost some more faith in humanity because so many whales fall for this cheap marketing trick and spend silly amounts of money for this pack in complete disregard of what that kind of money can buy (like whole games).

    Not sure what you mean there, but the revised information linked by angrysprite makes the Dragonborn pack worth €71 or so.

    What can you buy in Neverwinter for about €71? That's about £56 Sterling.

    €44.99 = 5300 Zen
    €27.99 = 3300 Zen

    €72.98 = 8600 Zen


    And what can you buy for 8600 Zen?

    4.3 Million AD from F2P exploiters of previous glitches?

    OR 8 Greater Bags of Holding (24-slots) and one set of Personal Bank Slots (16 slots)?

    OR 8 Coalescent Wards and 60 Preservation Wards?

    OR 68 Enchanted Keys?

    Or 12 sets of Shared Bank slots (12x8 slots)?


    And what do you get in this pack for the same amount?

    Fifteen 30-Slot bags, as I have 12 characters, 2 free slots and a free slot with the Pack
    Fifteen Rank 60 Artifacts, for the same reason
    Fifteen Rings similar to Mulhorand items (OK, no use on my level 60s, but good for new characters)
    A Race Change Token, so I can change one of my less used level 60s to a Dragonborn
    A free Character slot, so I can make a Draconian Warlock
    All the other free fluff


    Oh, yes. And I can make a Dragonborn character any time I like.


    Anyone who is a totally F2P player with only one account and two free characters, or even multiple accounts with two free characters each, stop crying and whinging and enjoy the game that is completely free to play except for On-Line internet costs.

    Or get your wallet out and support the devs and buy some Character Slot tokens. That is what I did, and this pack is suddenly Value For Money as I am getting enough Account-Wide stuff to make it Value For Money.

    I bought quite a few Bank slots and even more Shared Bank Slots, filled my e-mails and spent 750k AD on our 4th Guild Bank Vault and got 12 GBoH and I still need more space. More characters means more AD income from Professions as well, and more characters to run low level Skirmish Events for AD, as well as doing Dailies.

    But if they switch the bait in any way, I will want my money back.

    ~
  • pecosjezpecosjez Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Nice changes to the package. Thanks to all who voiced their concerns.

    Its now attractive enough that I bought two of them. One for me and the other for a family member.
  • shasarazadshasarazad Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Not sure what you mean there, but the revised information linked by angrysprite makes the Dragonborn pack worth €71 or so.

    .....snip.....

    Anyone who is a totally F2P player with only one account and two free characters, or even multiple accounts with two free characters each, stop crying and whinging and enjoy the game that is completely free to play except for On-Line internet costs.

    Or get your wallet out and support the devs and buy some Character Slot tokens. That is what I did, and this pack is suddenly Value For Money as I am getting enough Account-Wide stuff to make it Value For Money.

    ~


    Well, from what I have seen in this thread, most people complaining about the value did so before they updated the pack. (I guess some could have missed the update and/or haven't got as many alts as you, good to have your list of values though.) Most others who keep this thread alive are those of us who keep asking (begging) for the race to be sold on it's own. So, most of us are not asking it to be free, we are asking for a choice to not have to buy the big pack with all the (for me) useless extra items. I just want the race..
  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    shasarazad wrote: »
    most of us are not asking it to be free, we are asking for a choice to not have to buy the big pack with all the (for me) useless extra items. I just want the race.

    I appreciate that, but I think they said that all classes will be available for everyone but new races will not be. Like the Moon Elf (which is basically a Sun Elf) and the alternative Drow. But I think that this one ought to become available later on at some point. It would certainly sell well.

    But what sold me on it were the Bags even more than the artifacts. I have at least one character of each class and several races. But it does take such a long time to fully test out different races and classes, so they end up being Leadership mules for quite some time. But you really need them to be able to equip your main character.

    Imagine getting three artifacts to Rank 100, five companions to Epic level and Rank 10 Enchants in every slot, even for one character! Gone are the days when the early starters could use exploits for free AD with cheap prices on the AH. That was all over just before I started. You used to be able to get 99 Rank 5 Radiants for 50 to 100k AD. Last night, the cheapest stack was 444k. So I bought 99 Rank 4 for 69k and made a Rank 8 with them.

    But I played all my characters to level 25 or so and still play with them from time to time. I took my Halfling GWF out earlier to do Neverwinter Graveyard to get the second satchel or knapsack from that quest, as her inventory is too full with all the blue and epic gear she is holding for when she is level 60.

    And now I'll have to start a Dragonborn Warlock!

    Dang, life is tough...

    -

    PS. If I spent €180 on 21,600 Zen, I could trade it for 10.8 Million AD. But what would that get me? The ability to pay 600k AD for a Coalescent Ward I could get for 500k's worth of Zen on the Zen Market?

    Or 375k AD in a Ward sale?

    _
  • psychicslugpsychicslug Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I think the race change token could be the answer to the race issue by letting you change to any race(dragon born, moon elf, drow renegade) or have two versions one more expensive to do this and a lesser one that does not.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The updates to the bag and the artifact were exactly what was needed to convince me this pack offered value.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • diabovelhodiabovelho Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The link doesn't work for me as well. -> http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/game-pack/detail/495

    Cleaned cache and also tried IE, nothing.
    Anyone have other link or a solution?
  • refracted0dawnrefracted0dawn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 894 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    diabovelho wrote: »
    The link doesn't work for me as well. -> http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/game-pack/detail/495

    Cleaned cache and also tried IE, nothing.
    Anyone have other link or a solution?


    That link works for me, so I don't know what to tell you.

    What do you get when you click on it? It may be a temporary problem with your ISP. I get that now and then and cannot connect to certain things for a while.

    ~
  • devoteoftempusdevoteoftempus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 473 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    So whatever happened to the head dev at a Neverwinter game demo that content and races will be 100% free and store will be purely for vanity reasons? Once again marketing based on lies. If only the world was just and someone took this to court where the liers lose.

    Yeah... free to play but pay to enjoy.
  • zshikarazshikara Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 796 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I will admit that, after the changes to the bag and the artifact, I think the dragonborn pack is very much worth the 100 dollar price now. However, I cannot currently afford it. I do plan to buy it as the dragonborn totally fit how I play my character and have written his backstory. I love the dragonborn's lore and cannot wait to be running around in game as one. ^_^

    Thank you for adding this.

    PS: I would love to see a $20 race unlock (by itself) added to the zen shop if possible. I understand that might not be in your plans as you want to keep this race rare, and in that case I agree to keep it as is, but I'd be able to buy the $20 unlock right now. For 100$ I'll have to wait a couple months.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...
    Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
    Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
    ...
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So whatever happened to the head dev at a Neverwinter game demo that content and races will be 100% free and store will be purely for vanity reasons? Once again marketing based on lies. If only the world was just and someone took this to court where the liers lose.

    Yeah... free to play but pay to enjoy.

    They said CLASSES will always be 100% free. They never said anything about races. As for vanity: that's all a race is. You can play 100% of leveling content on any race.
  • devoteoftempusdevoteoftempus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 473 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    They said CLASSES will always be 100% free. They never said anything about races. As for vanity: that's all a race is. You can play 100% of leveling content on any race.

    No, they clearly indicated in the early pre-launch and early launch posts, interviews, what have you that classes and races were not going to be store items exclusive and that the store will only be cosmetic/vanity items only. Races ARE NOT cosmetic or vanity, they are crucial and central mechanics to builds. THAT is NOT a cosmetic or vanity feature.

    Course I should not be surprised with Perfect World at the helm. If it was a simple $10 store item I would care less, but instead they went with highway robbery with a huge price tag of $100. Guess this just shows the state of the game and this is the only way they can keep the game afloat by cheating their customers which this clearly is. How hard is it to take notes from Turbines DDO store and follow suite? They have the most reasonable and best format where one can pick the features they want and not forced down ones through with a huge bundle that only has one perk you care for.
  • dheffernandheffernan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I will say the $100 price tag is much harder to justify, even with the upgrades. They should keep the price at $75.

    I supsect that they won't...but you may see the pack go "on sale" frequently.
    @Venture-1 @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No, they clearly indicated in the early pre-launch and early launch posts, interviews, what have you that classes and races were not going to be store items exclusive and that the store will only be cosmetic/vanity items only. Races ARE NOT cosmetic or vanity, they are crucial and central mechanics to builds. THAT is NOT a cosmetic or vanity feature.

    No, they are cosmetic. You do not need any single race to complete the leveling content in the game - the game basically plays exactly the same way no matter which race you choose, save for a couple variances in how mobs are handled - which are so negligible you must read log files to see anything of it. Please get over yourself on how a race is not only cosmetic.

    As for "indication" that classes *AND RACES" never being "store items" (costing any money or Zen) SHOW ME. If you go back through this thread there is a link to the CEO Interview where he specifically stated that classes will always be free. He never mentioned races even once.

    UPDATE: I did it for you because it's it's often a cop-out to tell someone "go look it up" - so I present the links below - I put my money where my mouth is, it's only fair that you do the same. I am NOT debunking you. I am simply saying I don't trust your words as you say them so please back them up. (Okay, yes, I am debunking you. Always truthful is the best policy, I suppose.)

    Show us.

    I refer you to THIS post in this thread (who summarizes the same thing: classes are always free, never mentioned races):
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?714881-Announcing-the-Dragonborn-Race&p=8527291&viewfull=1#post8527291

    And this is a direct link to the interview itself (note: CLASSES will always be free, never a mention of races):
    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/videos/gameID/634/videoId/3021
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