There are no plans to change anything regarding DCs in Module 4...which is just fine with me - I would rather have them spend their time on revising the GF class, as it currently (on live) has much more severe issues - (and yeah, I have both a 60s GF and DC)
Now, there have been some comments that some people have interpreted as DCs being due for a revision in Module 5 - but considering how divided the community is over the current changes, I'm not sure whether that is really a good thing.
Face it - DCs are currently "good enough" - not great at anything, but not really bad either.
I have a DC that's not my main (GF is) and while I appreciate all the attention the class is getting and the move to bring us more into the actual tank role as in a whole host of other games I am somewhat concerned with the new added threat capability the GF is getting that delaying addressing some of the issues with the DC's may leave the GF's and groups as a whole without dedicated heals...other classes can as we have seen heal themselves rather well however GF's for all the changes will still not be on par with this (which tbh imo I think kind of negates the purpose of DC's in the first place).
There are no plans to change anything regarding DCs in Module 4...which is just fine with me - I would rather have them spend their time on revising the GF class, as it currently (on live) has much more severe issues - (and yeah, I have both a 60s GF and DC)
Now, there have been some comments that some people have interpreted as DCs being due for a revision in Module 5 - but considering how divided the community is over the current changes, I'm not sure whether that is really a good thing.
Face it - DCs are currently "good enough" - not great at anything, but not really bad either.
They could at least fix our bugged feats like linked spirit....
Papa Smurf / Uncle Ben --DC
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
They could at least fix our bugged feats like linked spirit....
And also rework utterly useless feats like Domain Synergy, Initiate of the faith, Templar's Domain
Our capstone feat Sovereign Justice and Cycle of Change is A PIECE OF HAMSTER compared to awesome capstone feats from other classes (esp. CW, HR and GWF)....please rework that too
I've been spending some time on the Preview Shard.
And at the moment, if DCs are not given some sort of CC-immunity spell (maybe include that in divine exaltation?), things will be incredibly difficult for them in mod 4 if things remain as they are.
At the moment, CWs are overpowered in a way that requires very little skill to play. With boar charge, HRs can get a ton of free damage in. Guardian fighters have some of the biggest hits I've ever seen with their prones. With all of this CC to guarantee hard-hitting follow up damage, DCs can do very little to avoid being prone-chained and killed in instants. At the moment, the two most effective classes at prone-chaining and killing a DC in one rotation of their skills is GWF + CW. On the preview shard, that can easily be accomplished by at least three different classes (CW, HR, GF), if they don't kill you on their own in 15-20 seconds or so.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
And at the moment, if DCs are not given some sort of CC-immunity spell (maybe include that in divine exaltation?), things will be incredibly difficult for them in mod 4 if things remain as they are.
You are only talking about PvP. In my opinion, the idea that classes should somehow be "balanced" for PvP purposes has done more harm to the PvE aspect of game than anything else - and quite frankly...this is not a PvP game - this is a PvE game, with a PvP component that caters to a minority of the players.
As far as DCs are concerned, the PvP players may even be proportionally fewer than in the case for most other classes, simply because many players that enjoy playing a healer/support class may not really be big PvP fans.
DCs are OK for PvE purposes now - not great, but not terribly bad either - but any attempt to modify the class to make them more viable in PvP has the risk of hurting the class in the PvE area, which would be a big disservice to what is probably the majority of DCs out there.
I think the biggest problem DCs face is the whole "planned obsolescence" thing in PvE. Rolling and leveling up a DC is good fun and all, but endgame a group is much better off with 1 gwf 4 dps all popping pots and artifacts rather than giving up a dps slot for a DC. This means all the new DCs level up, have a great time, and then find out that they have no use and roll an alt for high end pve grouping.
This is mainly because everyone has outgeared all the content by ridiculous amounts; the DC just doesn't bring anything to the table once groups start hitting 14-15k gs.
There are very few "good" DCs left, because, let's be honest, if you are a "good" (in the elitist sense of the word) player, you are NOT playing a class that is worthless endgame.
/shrug
crush said we'd be getting a rework after mod4 release. Personally, I'd rather just have teir III epic dungeons that require healing, but I suspect we'll see DCs become a viable semi-dps class. In the mean time, we'll all just have to shelve our DCs well the warlock takes any spot of a group that is too low gs and actually needs healing.
Again, /shrug.
MMO balance can't all be done at once. At some point ya either roll with the hits, or /ragequit. I've always preferred rolling around in the dirt myself.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited August 2014
DCs need a paragon feat overhaul BADLY. The fact that you get by without even investing into them without having significant issues. They're that minor.
Compared to a destroyer, which is a night and day difference.
Currently there is simply no reason to play a cleric. There may be a reason to take them with the party (although it s more about the force of habit and the psychological effect of having a "healer" with you than anything else) but there is no reason to play one.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Currently there is simply no reason to play a cleric. There may be a reason to take them with the party (although it s more about the force of habit and the psychological effect of having a "healer" with you than anything else) but there is no reason to play one.
This is what many GFs used to say for a while, but the situation is improving dramatically for them right now. As far as DCs are concerned, I would like to see a total redesign revision of our feat trees, into healing/buffing/dps-focused trees. I would also like to see armor/weapon sets suitable for each of those three roles.
Hoping for improvements...
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Currently there is simply no reason to play a cleric. There may be a reason to take them with the party (although it s more about the force of habit and the psychological effect of having a "healer" with you than anything else) but there is no reason to play one.
My CW wouldn't mind an astral shield, but that's sadly all I would need the DC for. Got healing covered....
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
My CW wouldn't mind an astral shield, but that's sadly all I would need the DC for. Got healing covered....
Uhm...at the "high end", say MC/CN/VT, the primary role of many (or perhaps most) DCs is not to heal, but to buff/debuff. Keeping an Astral Shield on the ground and Astral Seal on the targets of the DPSsers will generally handle healing quite nicely - however, if a DC with proper feats keeps Hallowed Ground up and puts (Divine) Divine Glow on the mobs and the DPSers, while wearing the High Prophet armor and wielding a weapon with either Terror or Plaguefire enchants, then you will see a pretty massive difference in how much faster everything goes. Sure, the DC may only do minimal damage, but when he boosts the damage of others by more than 25%, it is more effective than to have a 5th DPS.
It's amazing how naive most of the posters are here. You'd think everybody just started playing DC yesterday.
You can't expect the class to be balanced around random pug pvp or games where mid level people end up playing against extremlly well geared enemies. Basically everybody asking for an all around class buff on here can't provide a single credible reason for why this should be. It's all subjective reason centered around me me me ideas. Take a step back and look at the big picture people, use a little objectivity with your evaluations for a change
It's amazing how naive most of the posters are here. You'd think everybody just started playing DC yesterday.
You can't expect the class to be balanced around random pug pvp or games where mid level people end up playing against extremlly well geared enemies. Basically everybody asking for an all around class buff on here can't provide a single credible reason for why this should be. It's all subjective reason centered around me me me ideas. Take a step back and look at the big picture people, use a little objectivity with your evaluations for a change
Are you saying that the Cleric class is ok as it is?
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Are you saying that the Cleric class is ok as it is?
When your playing in an organised group, against comparably geared oponents yes.
There are things that could be improved, like feats for sure. Having a bit more diversity in build options wouldn't hurt either.
I supose, that depends on who you're asking.
But anyways, just goes to show that one of the primary problems is with how the matchmaking system works, and not how this class is balanced
When your playing in an organised group, against comparably geared oponents yes.
There are things that could be improved, like feats for sure. Having a bit more diversity in build options wouldn't hurt either.
So, what you are saying is that apart from the feats that need improving, and apart from the class skills that nobody picks because they are useless, the Cleric is ok?
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Fix the sea of broken feats and bug which exist since day one, then i am ok with DC.
+1 This
Edit -
As of right now...
LoF > SF
Slightly more damage done
SF > LoF
Gives Temp HP at third strike
More divinity produced
Faster attack speed
Crits more often
Would like to see Lance of faith buffed up a tad bit, nothing extreme but something to make it competitive to Sacred Flame. At least increase its attack speed and damage.
I show player support, by only playing Neverwinter as F2P
So, what you are saying is that apart from the feats that need improving, and apart from the class skills that nobody picks because they are useless, the Cleric is ok?
Yes. Cleric's do an admirable job of fulfilling they're intended role.
Comments
There are no plans to change anything regarding DCs in Module 4...which is just fine with me - I would rather have them spend their time on revising the GF class, as it currently (on live) has much more severe issues - (and yeah, I have both a 60s GF and DC)
Now, there have been some comments that some people have interpreted as DCs being due for a revision in Module 5 - but considering how divided the community is over the current changes, I'm not sure whether that is really a good thing.
Face it - DCs are currently "good enough" - not great at anything, but not really bad either.
They could at least fix our bugged feats like linked spirit....
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
And also rework utterly useless feats like Domain Synergy, Initiate of the faith, Templar's Domain
Our capstone feat Sovereign Justice and Cycle of Change is A PIECE OF HAMSTER compared to awesome capstone feats from other classes (esp. CW, HR and GWF)....please rework that too
And at the moment, if DCs are not given some sort of CC-immunity spell (maybe include that in divine exaltation?), things will be incredibly difficult for them in mod 4 if things remain as they are.
At the moment, CWs are overpowered in a way that requires very little skill to play. With boar charge, HRs can get a ton of free damage in. Guardian fighters have some of the biggest hits I've ever seen with their prones. With all of this CC to guarantee hard-hitting follow up damage, DCs can do very little to avoid being prone-chained and killed in instants. At the moment, the two most effective classes at prone-chaining and killing a DC in one rotation of their skills is GWF + CW. On the preview shard, that can easily be accomplished by at least three different classes (CW, HR, GF), if they don't kill you on their own in 15-20 seconds or so.
You are only talking about PvP. In my opinion, the idea that classes should somehow be "balanced" for PvP purposes has done more harm to the PvE aspect of game than anything else - and quite frankly...this is not a PvP game - this is a PvE game, with a PvP component that caters to a minority of the players.
As far as DCs are concerned, the PvP players may even be proportionally fewer than in the case for most other classes, simply because many players that enjoy playing a healer/support class may not really be big PvP fans.
DCs are OK for PvE purposes now - not great, but not terribly bad either - but any attempt to modify the class to make them more viable in PvP has the risk of hurting the class in the PvE area, which would be a big disservice to what is probably the majority of DCs out there.
This is mainly because everyone has outgeared all the content by ridiculous amounts; the DC just doesn't bring anything to the table once groups start hitting 14-15k gs.
There are very few "good" DCs left, because, let's be honest, if you are a "good" (in the elitist sense of the word) player, you are NOT playing a class that is worthless endgame.
/shrug
crush said we'd be getting a rework after mod4 release. Personally, I'd rather just have teir III epic dungeons that require healing, but I suspect we'll see DCs become a viable semi-dps class. In the mean time, we'll all just have to shelve our DCs well the warlock takes any spot of a group that is too low gs and actually needs healing.
Again, /shrug.
MMO balance can't all be done at once. At some point ya either roll with the hits, or /ragequit. I've always preferred rolling around in the dirt myself.
Compared to a destroyer, which is a night and day difference.
This is what many GFs used to say for a while, but the situation is improving dramatically for them right now. As far as DCs are concerned, I would like to see a total redesign revision of our feat trees, into healing/buffing/dps-focused trees. I would also like to see armor/weapon sets suitable for each of those three roles.
My CW wouldn't mind an astral shield, but that's sadly all I would need the DC for. Got healing covered....
Uhm...at the "high end", say MC/CN/VT, the primary role of many (or perhaps most) DCs is not to heal, but to buff/debuff. Keeping an Astral Shield on the ground and Astral Seal on the targets of the DPSsers will generally handle healing quite nicely - however, if a DC with proper feats keeps Hallowed Ground up and puts (Divine) Divine Glow on the mobs and the DPSers, while wearing the High Prophet armor and wielding a weapon with either Terror or Plaguefire enchants, then you will see a pretty massive difference in how much faster everything goes. Sure, the DC may only do minimal damage, but when he boosts the damage of others by more than 25%, it is more effective than to have a 5th DPS.
You can't expect the class to be balanced around random pug pvp or games where mid level people end up playing against extremlly well geared enemies. Basically everybody asking for an all around class buff on here can't provide a single credible reason for why this should be. It's all subjective reason centered around me me me ideas. Take a step back and look at the big picture people, use a little objectivity with your evaluations for a change
Are you saying that the Cleric class is ok as it is?
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
When your playing in an organised group, against comparably geared oponents yes.
There are things that could be improved, like feats for sure. Having a bit more diversity in build options wouldn't hurt either.
Which is 1% of all PvP matches.
I supose, that depends on who you're asking.
But anyways, just goes to show that one of the primary problems is with how the matchmaking system works, and not how this class is balanced
So, what you are saying is that apart from the feats that need improving, and apart from the class skills that nobody picks because they are useless, the Cleric is ok?
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
+1 This
Edit -
As of right now...
LoF > SF
Slightly more damage done
SF > LoF
Gives Temp HP at third strike
More divinity produced
Faster attack speed
Crits more often
Would like to see Lance of faith buffed up a tad bit, nothing extreme but something to make it competitive to Sacred Flame. At least increase its attack speed and damage.
Yes. Cleric's do an admirable job of fulfilling they're intended role.