I heal perfectly fine, I'm praised for that in every organized premade (:
That includes being able to keep CWs alive too, yeah.
Either way, me and Iyon are incredibly good at what we do in PvP - healing, tanking, dodging, CC'ing, capping nodes, whatnot. From experienced PVPers to the devs, please don't buff our class.
I'm not into getting trolled or to be torn appart because I share a different opinion than others, but facts and actions speak louder than words, I'll all for more DCs getting into high level competitive PvP so I can also play when we do mirror comps ^^
I heal perfectly fine, I'm praised for that in every organized premade (:
That includes being able to keep CWs alive too, yeah.
Either way, me and Iyon are incredibly good at what we do in PvP - healing, tanking, dodging, CC'ing, capping nodes, whatnot. From experienced PVPers to the devs, please don't buff our class.
I'm not into getting trolled or to be torn appart because I share a different opinion than others, but facts and actions speak louder than words, I'll all for more DCs getting into high level competitive PvP so I can also play when we do mirror comps ^^
If you cannot see the point you have unintentionally made here, then the bold highlight is a clue.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Hey Hot Pants, we know you all did well in pvp, but can i ask do you feel well when you do pug pvp?? I mean even when we know what should we do and do it very well we still cannot carry the team to a solid win. It is not matchmaking issue only, cuz other classes with BIS items can carry the team to win the game, but IMO BIS DC cannot do this stuff "pug stomping".
May i ask what equipment set you are using please? MH or BI purified or profound faithful?? If it is MH set, what response you will give when you cant exploit this set anymore when they fix it?
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
If you cannot post without being rude and insulting, then do not post on our forums. Thanks! ~Zeb
If you cannot see the point you have unintentionally made here, then the bold highlight is a clue.
Because it's the highest point of competitive PVP. As a top PVP competitive player of my class, that is the point I will make. Makes sense? But all in all, I'm playing against others of equal gear. Maybe someone else could do an organized premade of lower geared players and talk about the results...
Hey Hot Pants, we know you all did well in pvp, but can i ask do you feel well when you do pug pvp?? I mean even when we know what should we do and do it very well we still cannot carry the team to a solid win. It is not matchmaking issue only, cuz other classes with BIS items can carry the team to win the game, but IMO BIS DC cannot do this stuff "pug stomping".
May i ask what equipment set you are using please? MH or BI purified or profound faithful?? If it is MH set, what response you will give when you cant exploit this set anymore when they fix it?
Of course, DC is completely team dependant. A support in every MMO or game out there can only shine with the force of their group. A really good DC could stall a player of equal skill/gear or 1v2 weaker players. If you incredibly outgear say, a TR or a CW, maybe an HR, you could even kill them.
I use MH, sometimes switching to profound/black ice in real hard games where I'm getting bursted fast. Just as MH will get fixed, so will HR set and GWF set+feats, so it's not that bad. With how Righteousness works, it could be a hit on the DC himself but it could balanced when healing others. When it does happen, testing and adjusting will ensue...
We had high burst heals before, but that was a pre-tenacity scenario. My old build focused on high single target burst heal, coupling with temp hp from various sources i can keep a poor cw alive as long as i am not cc-ed. Since tenacity and healing depression affects healing in pvp so much i decided to reroll a new sent cleric, which is the one below: Night Elf.
Btw, i feel that the two words "supporter" and "augment" are not a good reason why DC should be weaker than other classes. Well we play like a white cleric companion in pvp. With high HP and defensive stats, we act as a running dummy on one of the three nodes, dealing near to none damage and tried to recover fast from battle. Is this the playstyle of leader/healer in neverwinter?? I think it is even nearer to a pure defender, even GF can dish out more dps than us. When both of the team is BIS, our potential is maximised, or else we do nothing and is not as demanded as other class including cw in pug pvp.
12k gs skilled GWF can steamroll entire average gs enemies in pug, while a 18k gs cleric cannot win a match against 12k gs enemies. Team-oriented?? Yes this is the best irresponsible word rather than revamping DC broken skills and feats. Ask Kaelac for his entire list of cleric bugs and broken stuffs, if anyone think cleric is fine and no need any fix and revamp after reading that long list, i have no more words to say, cuz i am speechless.
DC definitely need some rework and repair. Look into these: (Source: Kaelac)
7.3 Known issues, bugs and strange observations regarding DC skills abilities
Skills and general
Armor penetration not counted in calculating damage of many DC powers (PoD, Chains of Blazing Light), especially for DoTs (BoTS, BtS, FF) where every tick but the first is weakened.. A consequence of this is lifesteal return is markedly reduced for many of our abilities. Together, this killed the DPS oriented DCs as a viable build/paragon in PvE and PvP as well as made our GG, module 1 and 2 sets significantly less desirable stat wise. Potentially this might be fixed in module 4 for all classes
Stacks of High Prophet and TI fall off as soon as our dailys HoF and FS ends. Fixed for PL.
Prophecy of Doom does not benefit from any AP gain bonuses, either from CHA, recovery, Holy Fervor, artifacts, boons, pets etc, none what so ever. If the target is killed during PoD's animation the skill goes on cooldown. (My opinion is the animation and cast time for this skill is at least twice as long as it needs to be. I find it ironic that divine spells take much longer to cast (and hence much easier to interrupt) than magic ones)
Fabled Illiyabruen (Module 1) and Dread Legion (Module 2) set bonuses does not proc at all when soloing unless you happen to have a combat companion or fighting with someone else (they don’t have to be in your party).
Sunburst is not tagged as a healing power. Sunburst gives no divinity when healing self and gains no benefit from divine fortune when healing. Likewise, gains no benefit from healing action feat when healing, and gains 'life' stacks in cycle of change (well, probably working as intended on the last one..)
Channel divinity can get ‘stuck’ if you hold mouse down while tabbing and expends all your divinity unless you interrupt using an encounter.
Astral Seal duration is not refreshed when recast on target. Astral seal’s healing has diminishing returns on successful attacks (100% effectiveness, then 50%, 33%, 10%).
Chains of Blazing Light’s doesn't take into account ArP, and in divine mode or on some terrain enemies can sometimes walk directly over it without triggering.
Daunting Light and Flame strike do not proc Repurpose Soul when it crits
Repurpose soul healing is based only on raw damage and not actual damage, thus not benefitting from extra damage from debuffs/armor penetration (although side effect is it could benefit from lowered damage from enemy damage resistance)
Exaltation does not grant immunity to TR’s Shocking Execution.
Debuff effectiveness of High Prophet’s set, Plaguefire Enchantment and Terror Enchantment (also CW Elemental Empowerment) are reduced by enemy resistance, as noted in Section 6.3 above
Feytouched enchant decreases target damage but does not boost the DC’s damage when used.
A lot of ability FX and sound will still play even if it is interrupted, most noticeable in PvP even though the ability is not cast
Feats:
Templar’s Domain procs only for 5 seconds every 300 seconds. The internal cooldown is far too long and for a fifth tier feat should be removed altogether and this should just be a flat passive increase (ArPen increased by 6/12/18/24/30%). Not absurd considering the GWF feats that grant it.
Cleanse very rarely proc when soloing (soothing light is one of the rare skills that do). Furthermore I don’t think cleanse actually remove a lot of negative effects such as chill or stuns.
Daunting Light does not currently benefit at all from Terrifying Insight (TI). Chains of blazing Light only ever benefits from 1 stack (4% debuff) of Terrifying Insight. Also neither of these skills correctly grant a stack of TI on targets when used. It’s a visual effect only and applies no debuff.
Linked Spirit does not proc with Divine Astral shield at all. The icon is displayed but there are no actual stat increases to anyone in party, even if healing occurred, on the first tick or otherwise. It also doesn’t work with Exaltation in either normal or divine mode.
Linked Spirit: tooltip should be reworded to state it increasing target stat ratings by X% for X seconds. (this is how it's currently implemented. It’s not currently based on the DC’s ratings, and honestly shouldn’t be anyway because every class has different needs).
Linked Spirit does not increase they tenacity of you or your allies
Power of the Sun does not reduce player crit rating, at least in PvP (from character sheet). Not sure about damage yet. Likewise not sure of Power of Oppression actually debuffs
Righteous Flame- I don’t notice any actual stuns, if at all even if targets were caught in middle.
Sovereign Justice- the proc rate seems to be a lot less than suggested on tooltip, especially when soloing
Along with our broken and useless heroic feats and the worst paragon path among 6 classes: Virtuous path, we are definitely fine and no need any fix and rework?? You all must be kidding... Hot Pants? Iyon? Do you two still think we are fine and should remain the same in M4?? Others?? Still argue DC no need rework but we should learn to play even somehow exploiting the bugged mechanic?? This post of mine is definitely constructive, fix these and give us a better paragon feats like HR Nature to Trapper. Yes may be you all are right that DC don't need buff but we should tone down or nerf the others, but prior to that, let us have a chance to fix these stuff first. I believe there are more bugs but we are unaware of, finding those out will be better than debating without solid proof.
Edit: Burning Guidance never proc from self healing via ASeal, AS, HW etc.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ugh... its apparent that you incapable of having a reasonable conversation about this topic. I'm out, its your loss man.
"huhuhu you guys are in the same guild lolz roflz, I'm rightz...." my god.... toddlers.
if you want "prove" go find it yourself, there is plenty out there on multiple streams and youtube channels. 17k gs.... WTF are you even talking about rofl.
My god, so many words just to say nothing. I see you just repeating ad nauseam "we are cool, we are the elite pvp players, we know how to play". And now "buhuhu, you don't agree with us, you are not reasonable..."
I really don't see how you can say to another man he's a toddler.
And for the last time: I don't know if this 3 dc are the best dc in the world. I'm saying that they play in an environment where their skills mean nothing. What I'm saying is that you can't be tanky and being an effective healer. And it's not because one is skilled or not: is simple math. Even with a full healing build in pvp our heals are not so strong. They are good on high mitigation players only.
What save pvp players from death are their tools not our heals: mage and their dodge and cc, tr and stealth, gwf and unstoppable, gf and shield, hr and their cc and dodge. And for everybody regen and lifesteal.
And DC? Well our mechanic is healing and in fact we have to spec like a tank to survive. You don't think this is wrong.
Well I DO!
But no, you want us to say: "oh, great hot pants, we agree with you! Everything is fine!"
People still seem to misunderstand the DC. There is no healing class in Neverwinter Nights at this time. If you want to play a healer, you are in the wrong game. There is no indication that there ever will be a healing class. As the next class with healing abilities will likely be the Druid.
There is an awesome buffer/debuffer class that also has healing abilities. The class relies on a group to reach its full potential, yet they can solo content that is intended for solo play. If you like making others powerful at the expense of being as powerful in solo play as other classes, then the DC might be a good fit for you.
If you enjoy complaining about how a group centric class is not as powerful in solo play, then the DC is a perfect fit.
If you enjoy complaining how a buff/debuff class cannot heal like a healing class in other games, then the DC is a great fit.
If you want to complain that there are few feat options if you want to min/max your character, then we have 6 great classes to choose from in Neverwinter Nights. As they all have very few feat choices if you want to min/max a specific function of the class.
I do agree that the DC feats and abilities need to be debugged and work properly. But I think the biggest issue is that too much of this game is a black box. While we are able to parse and figure out what most our abilities do, this should not be needed. Unfortunately, that is the MO of MMO's. Game designers do a poor job in documenting how the game works. A simple thing like choosing a feat is impossible to intelligently do based on in game information. As the tool tips do not provide the proper information to make an informed choice. Just because every other MMO does it this way, does not mean Neverwinter has to as well. It really is absurd.
I don't have 17k gs myself, halfway through 15 ish atm (: The GWF in my guild are around 16k, max'd up...
Arguing is pointless, instead of talking about what is fine, I'll lean towards talking about what is not. jazzfong is in the right direction and at least trying to keep a positive attitude.
These would be more in the order of fixes and not bugs, which I completely agree with. We have heroic and paragon feats that are downright terrible and useless, especially the Virtuous tree. Every single feat is terrible and the capstone is just completely contradictory. It's in dire need of a rework. There's also feats that are pretty meh (Faithful tree) or working incorrectly (Righteous tree, Divine Oracle feat).
As with every class, there are just skills that are incredibly unpopular...it feels more so for DC.
Pure PVP Perspective: There are just skills that are unreliable and close to useless;
Chains have pretty low damage (the armpen fix could be helpful), can be dodged into (for no effect) and the root is pretty underwhelming.
Daunting Light has a very low radius, even during divinity. It's only good for doing dailies
Divine Glow is very hard to land effectively and has a long cooldown.
Forgemaster's Flame has a tad too low radius, it's also "useless" in an utility point of view if used outside divinity.
Break the spirit is neat a skill, but it feels like something is missing...the stun is really low, with a slow projectile.
Bastion of Health...is downright terrible, it's not worth the cooldown nor the cast time.
Anointed Army daily sounds cool, but the charges go down really fast, rendering it pretty much useless in PvE or PvP cenario. It can in no way compare to other dailies.
The top DCs' builds are effective. They are kind of niche, but definitely effective. After I switched to AC and all defensive builds, I don't notice a great change in DPS and healing but a great boost to survivability. I hit for 950 on average on dummies with at wills both before and after switching to defensive build. This was very surprising at first and I was very skeptical when my guildie gave me the suggestions. Then I thought, oh well, not that I'm effective in my current build, so why not try something new? I'm not max geared. I have r8s and purple artifacts, and I use the stone for OW, so I am nowhere near the best DCs, but I feel more useful in the defensive build, and I can keep my pug teams alive with some serious effort by taking the big hits for them, giving them immunity for a fraction of a second when I hear the prologue of dailies, and throwing out the tiny little heals, buying them time to run for pots. I was on page 38 on the leaderboard yesterday, not sure what my ranking is now. I believe the defensive build can be effective in less geared but equally geared parties too, providing that the matchmaking system can find such parties for us.
I am very looking forward to the GWF fix. I think many of the problems we have now are because of that broken class, and perhaps HR in mod 4. When we are proned or cc'ed, our deflect doesn't work and tenacity doesn't work with prone. Also, we don't have prone or cc immunity. So once we are chain proned or cc'ed, we are done. The fact that GWFs can prone prone prone ROAR from a considerable distance doesn't really help. This problem is aggravated by the fact that in pugs we are not protected by others, and since we are targeted first by any competent opponents, we go down very fast with 4 people jumping on us at first sight and without help from teammates. Once the prone issue is gone, I expect more survivability and opportunities to heal others, so healing builds can potentially become effective again. Also, NW should seriously reward DCs for healing/buffing/debuffing. Our contributions go unnoticed (especially in pugs) without any of such indications and all is left is the frustration of becoming a punch bag.
Still, aside from fixing the bugged GWF, fix our bugs too, as listed by jazzfong. I would also like to add that the chain doesn't proc at least 20% of the time, normal or divine. No other class has problems of this sort, only us...
The top DCs' builds are effective. They are kind of niche, but definitely effective.
Yes, if you look at the top DCs on the leaderboard it paints a pretty simple picture. Basically they are roaming target dummies in PvP. Generally 1:2 kill to death ratios but nearly 3 to 5 times the assists of those players around them. Likely almost all deaths came when they were caught between nodes or holding a node until another teammate could relieve them (in otherwords whenever they had to 1v1 another player which they can't do).
Yeah, we successfully drag one end game BIS DC to promote a complete revamp on DC stuffs!!!! No more trash feats and bugs on us!!!
Btw PoD never crits?? I tot i saw it crit before... nvm just let the devs test it. Chains will not affect enemies out the circle when triggered in M5, this is another great nerf to us. They didn't fix the bug yet so what we will get is having a circle which cannot proc 20% of the times and if it does, only the victims inside will be affected.
In live, what we do now is place a chain, even someone dodge into it and trigger it, the other enemies near the chains will also be rooted while the one dodge into it will immune to it. In M5, we got zero chance to root anyone if someone dodge into it as it will properly affects target inside only.
Well done, you kill a skill in pvp. I highly suggested to revert back the changes done to this skill or else the only control encounter of cleric is useless in pvp. Well done, a clap to devs, if this is implemented i rather you all delete this skill and change to other skills.
Imagine in pve, you put down a chains, then a swarm of mobs run into it, but then only the first pity one is rooted and damaged, what do you feel about this skill?? Imagine in pvp, you wait for 12 seconds to put a chains down in a 5v5 battle, a HR use one dodge which only cost 1 second to regen his stamina back to step into it, then the chain burst but the HR is immune to it, the rest of the enemies is not in the circle so they are not damaged nor rooted. WTH is this?? What is the point to use this skill??
Yeah, we successfully drag one end game BIS DC to promote a complete revamp on DC stuffs!!!! No more trash feats and bugs on us!!!
Btw PoD never crits?? I tot i saw it crit before... nvm just let the devs test it. Chains will not affect enemies out the circle when triggered in M5, this is another great nerf to us. They didn't fix the bug yet so what we will get is having a circle which cannot proc 20% of the times and if it does, only the victims inside will be affected.
In live, what we do now is place a chain, even someone dodge into it and trigger it, the other enemies near the chains will also be rooted while the one dodge into it will immune to it. In M5, we got zero chance to root anyone if someone dodge into it as it will properly affects target inside only.
Well done, you kill a skill in pvp. I highly suggested to revert back the changes done to this skill or else the only control encounter of cleric is useless in pvp. Well done, a clap to devs, if this is implemented i rather you all delete this skill and change to other skills.
Imagine in pve, you put down a chains, then a swarm of mobs run into it, but then only the first pity one is rooted and damaged, what do you feel about this skill?? Imagine in pvp, you wait for 12 seconds to put a chains down in a 5v5 battle, a HR use one dodge which only cost 1 second to regen his stamina back to step into it, then the chain burst but the HR is immune to it, the rest of the enemies is not in the circle so they are not damaged nor rooted. WTH is this?? What is the point to use this skill??
For those who may have missed this, the updated ToD patch notes now include the following for the DC:
Devoted Cleric
Chains of Blazing Light: Chains of Blazing Light will no longer sometimes affect foes who were not standing in the affected area.
Dodge: Dodge can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Jazzfong - the description in the patch notes is above, which seems to suggest that no one outside the circle is affected at all, irrespective of whether they are the first person to run in or the last.
Inside when circle lands = affected.
Outside when circle lands = unaffected ???
Any actual gameplay feedback on this from players is most welcome.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Great.. now i'll use Divine Glow, Daunting Light and Sunburst instead of Chain for daily pve since Chain will lose its cutting edge. The reason we use it at all I believe. But we'll have to see how it acts also, a supposed improved damage will be seen since there will be arpen fix...
Anyway, their description is wrong, whether it is intended or not.. Chain isnt just "Sometimes" affecting foes outside the circle.. it is ALWAYS affecting foes outside the circle when it burst.. They made it sound as if it was a bug ... "Sometimes" pfft!!
On the bright side lyaise.. it's not only a tooltip change anymore. LOL
Great.. now i'll use Divine Glow, Daunting Light and Sunburst instead of Chain for daily pve since Chain will lose its cutting edge. The reason we use it at all I believe. But we'll have to see how it acts also, a supposed improved damage will be seen since there will be arpen fix...
Anyway, their description is wrong, whether it is intended or not.. Chain isnt just "Sometimes" affecting foes outside the circle.. it is ALWAYS affecting foes outside the circle when it burst.. They made it sound as if it was a bug ... "Sometimes" pfft!!
On the bright side lyaise.. it's not only a tooltip change anymore. LOL
Should have known - I was looking for more than one tooltip - and more happened......
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
I already created a thread with suggestions toward DC heroic feats rework, but no one seems to care
No one cares because this is the official feedback thread for our thoughts on the DC. They want the feedback consolidated on this thread, not broken into many threads. Please provide any feedback you want the developers to see on this thread, not on some random one that you create.
No one cares because this is the official feedback thread for our thoughts on the DC. They want the feedback consolidated on this thread, not broken into many threads. Please provide any feedback you want the developers to see on this thread, not on some random one that you create.
Nope, this is not an official feedback. There wasn't official thread on the cleric, therefore someone has to create this one.
1. Searing light in divine mode hits as hard as a normal sun burst. I seldom see anyone use it at lvl 60. Please don't nerf sun burst...
2. Lance of faith hits as hard and as fast as sacred flame, just without the healing with third strike.
3. Guardian of faith deals less damage than an encounter and heals less than an encounter too.
4. No one uses Soothe. It didn't work before the agro fix and it is useless after it.
5. Change divine fortune into something else. Why clerics need to slot this in order to gain divinity when healing? Are clerics punished for helping others?
6. Annointed Army ends too quickly, especially with dot all over the place.
7. Bastion of health very long cast time, very long charge time, and moderate heal.
8. Chain does not proc about 20% of the time. With the new patch, it does not affect enemies outside the circle as well. With its moderate damage, replacing it with sun burst, as mentioned by others, would be our only option. Again, please don't nerf sun burst.
I switch skill sets on my other toons a lot, but not on my DC, since there's nothing good to switch to. Fixing these is not necessarily a buff to the DC, but will allow us to play around with different skill sets. For example, I would sacrifice the heals at the third hit of sacred flames for some faster or higher dps from lance of faith when soloing, if the latter works as what the tooltip describes.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1. Searing light in divine mode hits as hard as a normal sun burst. I seldom see anyone use it at lvl 60. Please don't nerf sun burst...
2. Lance of faith hits as hard and as fast as sacred flame, just without the healing with third strike.
3. Guardian of faith deals less damage than an encounter and heals less than an encounter too.
4. No one uses Soothe. It didn't work before the agro fix and it is useless after it.
5. Change divine fortune into something else. Why clerics need to slot this in order to gain divinity when healing? Are clerics punished for helping others?
6. Annointed Army ends too quickly, especially with dot all over the place.
7. Bastion of health very long cast time, very long charge time, and moderate heal.
8. Chain does not proc about 20% of the time. With the new patch, it does not affect enemies outside the circle as well. With its moderate damage, replacing it with sun burst, as mentioned by others, would be our only option. Again, please don't nerf sun burst.
I switch skill sets on my other toons a lot, but not on my DC, since there's nothing good to switch to. Fixing these is not necessarily a buff to the DC, but will allow us to play around with different skill sets. For example, I would sacrifice the heals at the third hit of sacred flames for some faster or higher dps from lance of faith when soloing, if the latter works as what the tooltip describes.
All really good points. Above all point 5.Our peculiarity is that we heal but our healing spells don't generate any divinity, our class mechanics. It really doesn't make any sense.
Nope, this is not an official feedback. There wasn't official thread on the cleric, therefore someone has to create this one.
As I said, this current thread is the official feedback thread. Initially when the other classes had their threads created, a DC started this thread under a different name. The moderator changed the name to its current form and requested that DC's consolidate their feedback under this thread.
As I said, this current thread is the official feedback thread. Initially when the other classes had their threads created, a DC started this thread under a different name. The moderator changed the name to its current form and requested that DC's consolidate their feedback under this thread.
If you weren't so stupid, you could've noticed, that my thread was created 3 hours after this thread, and this thread served a different purpose and was renamed my the moderator far after.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
As I said, this current thread is the official feedback thread. Initially when the other classes had their threads created, a DC started this thread under a different name. The moderator changed the name to its current form and requested that DC's consolidate their feedback under this thread.
Calm your concern, us Clerics are an adaptive bunch. Clicking on two threads here is something we can manage :-)
Now as for the really good original suggestions by Mehguy138 and positive follow ups: We can only try to keep this initiative up in the hope that someone from the development team takes note.
After living with bugged or useless powers/feats more or less since the game started, we need to somehow change the mindset of the devs.
The latest change - another nerf - has come out of the blue again. Talk about fighting an uphill battle!
We have very little time to convince the devs to do something supportive with the class, Module 4 will be on us surprisingly quickly, with any positive changes needing to be tested prior to this. My hope is very thin that come Mod 4 the DC will have seen any improvements. But even if this is a last effort, then so be it, a positive effort it will be.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
so as i understand it with the new change (fix) to chains:
4 enemies (generally a mob) run towards you in a staggered approach. The first one hits the edge of the spell lying on the ground, triggering it.
It stops, stunned, takes full damage from the spell, as the three buddies run past him to attack you.
if your lucky 2 of the mob hit the edge at the same time.
you can still place the template on the ground to cover all of the mob with your initial casting of the spell but the trap aspect of this spell is ruined. Why not just buff the cc and quick cast aspects of the spell and take away the trap aspect ?
so as i understand it with the new change (fix) to chains:
4 enemies (generally a mob) run towards you in a staggered approach. The first one hits the edge of the spell lying on the ground, triggering it.
It stops, stunned, takes full damage from the spell, as the three buddies run past him to attack you.
if your lucky 2 of the mob hit the edge at the same time.
you can still place the template on the ground to cover all of the mob with your initial casting of the spell but the trap aspect of this spell is ruined. Why not just buff the cc and quick cast aspects of the spell and take away the trap aspect ?
Because that would be actually a buff to clerics, and obviously the doomsday would come if that ever happens.
Because that would be actually a buff to clerics, and obviously the doomsday would come if that ever happens.
Seems like the DC has been on the nerf train for some time, despite the lack of any other players calling them OP. There are those roaming bricks that sometimes show up in matches but outside taking a while to kill they are more of an annoyance than any real threat anyone.
hi here, i suggest to change the empire set for a set in relation with buffing/debuffing, as we have only one set with that relation and almost others with healing...
Comments
That includes being able to keep CWs alive too, yeah.
Either way, me and Iyon are incredibly good at what we do in PvP - healing, tanking, dodging, CC'ing, capping nodes, whatnot. From experienced PVPers to the devs, please don't buff our class.
I'm not into getting trolled or to be torn appart because I share a different opinion than others, but facts and actions speak louder than words, I'll all for more DCs getting into high level competitive PvP so I can also play when we do mirror comps ^^
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
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If you cannot see the point you have unintentionally made here, then the bold highlight is a clue.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
May i ask what equipment set you are using please? MH or BI purified or profound faithful?? If it is MH set, what response you will give when you cant exploit this set anymore when they fix it?
Because it's the highest point of competitive PVP. As a top PVP competitive player of my class, that is the point I will make. Makes sense? But all in all, I'm playing against others of equal gear. Maybe someone else could do an organized premade of lower geared players and talk about the results...
Of course, DC is completely team dependant. A support in every MMO or game out there can only shine with the force of their group. A really good DC could stall a player of equal skill/gear or 1v2 weaker players. If you incredibly outgear say, a TR or a CW, maybe an HR, you could even kill them.
I use MH, sometimes switching to profound/black ice in real hard games where I'm getting bursted fast. Just as MH will get fixed, so will HR set and GWF set+feats, so it's not that bad. With how Righteousness works, it could be a hit on the DC himself but it could balanced when healing others. When it does happen, testing and adjusting will ensue...
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
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Btw, i feel that the two words "supporter" and "augment" are not a good reason why DC should be weaker than other classes. Well we play like a white cleric companion in pvp. With high HP and defensive stats, we act as a running dummy on one of the three nodes, dealing near to none damage and tried to recover fast from battle. Is this the playstyle of leader/healer in neverwinter?? I think it is even nearer to a pure defender, even GF can dish out more dps than us. When both of the team is BIS, our potential is maximised, or else we do nothing and is not as demanded as other class including cw in pug pvp.
12k gs skilled GWF can steamroll entire average gs enemies in pug, while a 18k gs cleric cannot win a match against 12k gs enemies. Team-oriented?? Yes this is the best irresponsible word rather than revamping DC broken skills and feats. Ask Kaelac for his entire list of cleric bugs and broken stuffs, if anyone think cleric is fine and no need any fix and revamp after reading that long list, i have no more words to say, cuz i am speechless.
7.3 Known issues, bugs and strange observations regarding DC skills abilities
Skills and general
Feats:
Along with our broken and useless heroic feats and the worst paragon path among 6 classes: Virtuous path, we are definitely fine and no need any fix and rework?? You all must be kidding... Hot Pants? Iyon? Do you two still think we are fine and should remain the same in M4?? Others?? Still argue DC no need rework but we should learn to play even somehow exploiting the bugged mechanic?? This post of mine is definitely constructive, fix these and give us a better paragon feats like HR Nature to Trapper. Yes may be you all are right that DC don't need buff but we should tone down or nerf the others, but prior to that, let us have a chance to fix these stuff first. I believe there are more bugs but we are unaware of, finding those out will be better than debating without solid proof.
Edit: Burning Guidance never proc from self healing via ASeal, AS, HW etc.
My god, so many words just to say nothing. I see you just repeating ad nauseam "we are cool, we are the elite pvp players, we know how to play". And now "buhuhu, you don't agree with us, you are not reasonable..."
I really don't see how you can say to another man he's a toddler.
And for the last time: I don't know if this 3 dc are the best dc in the world. I'm saying that they play in an environment where their skills mean nothing. What I'm saying is that you can't be tanky and being an effective healer. And it's not because one is skilled or not: is simple math. Even with a full healing build in pvp our heals are not so strong. They are good on high mitigation players only.
What save pvp players from death are their tools not our heals: mage and their dodge and cc, tr and stealth, gwf and unstoppable, gf and shield, hr and their cc and dodge. And for everybody regen and lifesteal.
And DC? Well our mechanic is healing and in fact we have to spec like a tank to survive. You don't think this is wrong.
Well I DO!
But no, you want us to say: "oh, great hot pants, we agree with you! Everything is fine!"
There is an awesome buffer/debuffer class that also has healing abilities. The class relies on a group to reach its full potential, yet they can solo content that is intended for solo play. If you like making others powerful at the expense of being as powerful in solo play as other classes, then the DC might be a good fit for you.
If you enjoy complaining about how a group centric class is not as powerful in solo play, then the DC is a perfect fit.
If you enjoy complaining how a buff/debuff class cannot heal like a healing class in other games, then the DC is a great fit.
If you want to complain that there are few feat options if you want to min/max your character, then we have 6 great classes to choose from in Neverwinter Nights. As they all have very few feat choices if you want to min/max a specific function of the class.
I do agree that the DC feats and abilities need to be debugged and work properly. But I think the biggest issue is that too much of this game is a black box. While we are able to parse and figure out what most our abilities do, this should not be needed. Unfortunately, that is the MO of MMO's. Game designers do a poor job in documenting how the game works. A simple thing like choosing a feat is impossible to intelligently do based on in game information. As the tool tips do not provide the proper information to make an informed choice. Just because every other MMO does it this way, does not mean Neverwinter has to as well. It really is absurd.
Arguing is pointless, instead of talking about what is fine, I'll lean towards talking about what is not. jazzfong is in the right direction and at least trying to keep a positive attitude.
These would be more in the order of fixes and not bugs, which I completely agree with. We have heroic and paragon feats that are downright terrible and useless, especially the Virtuous tree. Every single feat is terrible and the capstone is just completely contradictory. It's in dire need of a rework. There's also feats that are pretty meh (Faithful tree) or working incorrectly (Righteous tree, Divine Oracle feat).
As with every class, there are just skills that are incredibly unpopular...it feels more so for DC.
Pure PVP Perspective: There are just skills that are unreliable and close to useless;
Chains have pretty low damage (the armpen fix could be helpful), can be dodged into (for no effect) and the root is pretty underwhelming.
Daunting Light has a very low radius, even during divinity. It's only good for doing dailies
Divine Glow is very hard to land effectively and has a long cooldown.
Forgemaster's Flame has a tad too low radius, it's also "useless" in an utility point of view if used outside divinity.
Break the spirit is neat a skill, but it feels like something is missing...the stun is really low, with a slow projectile.
Bastion of Health...is downright terrible, it's not worth the cooldown nor the cast time.
Anointed Army daily sounds cool, but the charges go down really fast, rendering it pretty much useless in PvE or PvP cenario. It can in no way compare to other dailies.
#1 Enemy Team PvP Devoted Cleric
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To add to jazzfong's list of bugs: Prophecy of Doom never crits when it completes.
I am very looking forward to the GWF fix. I think many of the problems we have now are because of that broken class, and perhaps HR in mod 4. When we are proned or cc'ed, our deflect doesn't work and tenacity doesn't work with prone. Also, we don't have prone or cc immunity. So once we are chain proned or cc'ed, we are done. The fact that GWFs can prone prone prone ROAR from a considerable distance doesn't really help. This problem is aggravated by the fact that in pugs we are not protected by others, and since we are targeted first by any competent opponents, we go down very fast with 4 people jumping on us at first sight and without help from teammates. Once the prone issue is gone, I expect more survivability and opportunities to heal others, so healing builds can potentially become effective again. Also, NW should seriously reward DCs for healing/buffing/debuffing. Our contributions go unnoticed (especially in pugs) without any of such indications and all is left is the frustration of becoming a punch bag.
Still, aside from fixing the bugged GWF, fix our bugs too, as listed by jazzfong. I would also like to add that the chain doesn't proc at least 20% of the time, normal or divine. No other class has problems of this sort, only us...
Yes, if you look at the top DCs on the leaderboard it paints a pretty simple picture. Basically they are roaming target dummies in PvP. Generally 1:2 kill to death ratios but nearly 3 to 5 times the assists of those players around them. Likely almost all deaths came when they were caught between nodes or holding a node until another teammate could relieve them (in otherwords whenever they had to 1v1 another player which they can't do).
Btw PoD never crits?? I tot i saw it crit before... nvm just let the devs test it. Chains will not affect enemies out the circle when triggered in M5, this is another great nerf to us. They didn't fix the bug yet so what we will get is having a circle which cannot proc 20% of the times and if it does, only the victims inside will be affected.
In live, what we do now is place a chain, even someone dodge into it and trigger it, the other enemies near the chains will also be rooted while the one dodge into it will immune to it. In M5, we got zero chance to root anyone if someone dodge into it as it will properly affects target inside only.
Well done, you kill a skill in pvp. I highly suggested to revert back the changes done to this skill or else the only control encounter of cleric is useless in pvp. Well done, a clap to devs, if this is implemented i rather you all delete this skill and change to other skills.
Imagine in pve, you put down a chains, then a swarm of mobs run into it, but then only the first pity one is rooted and damaged, what do you feel about this skill?? Imagine in pvp, you wait for 12 seconds to put a chains down in a 5v5 battle, a HR use one dodge which only cost 1 second to regen his stamina back to step into it, then the chain burst but the HR is immune to it, the rest of the enemies is not in the circle so they are not damaged nor rooted. WTH is this?? What is the point to use this skill??
For those who may have missed this, the updated ToD patch notes now include the following for the DC:
Devoted Cleric
Chains of Blazing Light: Chains of Blazing Light will no longer sometimes affect foes who were not standing in the affected area.
Dodge: Dodge can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Jazzfong - the description in the patch notes is above, which seems to suggest that no one outside the circle is affected at all, irrespective of whether they are the first person to run in or the last.
Inside when circle lands = affected.
Outside when circle lands = unaffected ???
Any actual gameplay feedback on this from players is most welcome.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Anyway, their description is wrong, whether it is intended or not.. Chain isnt just "Sometimes" affecting foes outside the circle.. it is ALWAYS affecting foes outside the circle when it burst.. They made it sound as if it was a bug ... "Sometimes" pfft!!
On the bright side lyaise.. it's not only a tooltip change anymore. LOL
Should have known - I was looking for more than one tooltip - and more happened......
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
No one cares because this is the official feedback thread for our thoughts on the DC. They want the feedback consolidated on this thread, not broken into many threads. Please provide any feedback you want the developers to see on this thread, not on some random one that you create.
Nope, this is not an official feedback. There wasn't official thread on the cleric, therefore someone has to create this one.
1. Searing light in divine mode hits as hard as a normal sun burst. I seldom see anyone use it at lvl 60. Please don't nerf sun burst...
2. Lance of faith hits as hard and as fast as sacred flame, just without the healing with third strike.
3. Guardian of faith deals less damage than an encounter and heals less than an encounter too.
4. No one uses Soothe. It didn't work before the agro fix and it is useless after it.
5. Change divine fortune into something else. Why clerics need to slot this in order to gain divinity when healing? Are clerics punished for helping others?
6. Annointed Army ends too quickly, especially with dot all over the place.
7. Bastion of health very long cast time, very long charge time, and moderate heal.
8. Chain does not proc about 20% of the time. With the new patch, it does not affect enemies outside the circle as well. With its moderate damage, replacing it with sun burst, as mentioned by others, would be our only option. Again, please don't nerf sun burst.
I switch skill sets on my other toons a lot, but not on my DC, since there's nothing good to switch to. Fixing these is not necessarily a buff to the DC, but will allow us to play around with different skill sets. For example, I would sacrifice the heals at the third hit of sacred flames for some faster or higher dps from lance of faith when soloing, if the latter works as what the tooltip describes.
All really good points. Above all point 5.Our peculiarity is that we heal but our healing spells don't generate any divinity, our class mechanics. It really doesn't make any sense.
As I said, this current thread is the official feedback thread. Initially when the other classes had their threads created, a DC started this thread under a different name. The moderator changed the name to its current form and requested that DC's consolidate their feedback under this thread.
If you weren't so stupid, you could've noticed, that my thread was created 3 hours after this thread, and this thread served a different purpose and was renamed my the moderator far after.
Calm your concern, us Clerics are an adaptive bunch. Clicking on two threads here is something we can manage :-)
Now as for the really good original suggestions by Mehguy138 and positive follow ups: We can only try to keep this initiative up in the hope that someone from the development team takes note.
After living with bugged or useless powers/feats more or less since the game started, we need to somehow change the mindset of the devs.
The latest change - another nerf - has come out of the blue again. Talk about fighting an uphill battle!
We have very little time to convince the devs to do something supportive with the class, Module 4 will be on us surprisingly quickly, with any positive changes needing to be tested prior to this. My hope is very thin that come Mod 4 the DC will have seen any improvements. But even if this is a last effort, then so be it, a positive effort it will be.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
in my linkhttp://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?700511-Why-not-use-Warlock-as-path-under-DC-or-CW-Builds-as-you-did-gwf-gf
I suggested bringing warlock into DC and CW as a Paragon Tree to add greater diversity and hopefully damage to DC.
AS is The Warlock feels just like a bunch of other class abilities squeezed into a new class.
4 enemies (generally a mob) run towards you in a staggered approach. The first one hits the edge of the spell lying on the ground, triggering it.
It stops, stunned, takes full damage from the spell, as the three buddies run past him to attack you.
if your lucky 2 of the mob hit the edge at the same time.
you can still place the template on the ground to cover all of the mob with your initial casting of the spell but the trap aspect of this spell is ruined. Why not just buff the cc and quick cast aspects of the spell and take away the trap aspect ?
Because that would be actually a buff to clerics, and obviously the doomsday would come if that ever happens.
Seems like the DC has been on the nerf train for some time, despite the lack of any other players calling them OP. There are those roaming bricks that sometimes show up in matches but outside taking a while to kill they are more of an annoyance than any real threat anyone.