I prove this by the majority of my gameplay being solo-Q, and understanding the stupidity of the majority of the playerbase. I've been the #1 ranked "leaderboard" cleric the majority of the time since Mod 3 hit... mostly to prove a point.
That point being that at the high end, clerics are quite okay. I honestly think that we are in a good spot once the prones are toned down a bit. I switch from MH to black ice to profound on a day by day basis just to keep up with trends, but all in all solo Q remains the same.
I have the most fun in a TIGHT match with 5 of my friends vs 5 people that are geared and know what they're doing... those who say that DC's bring little to the table (or "any class would do better!") are mistaken. If equal and both teams are in stalemates...which allows for roaming heals... the DC can bring an amazing amount of utility that is very rarely seen due to the fact that playing a support class at the highest level takes a certain suicidal and masochistic personality...
At any rate, DC's are actually at a PERFECT state if you consider build choice and skill (and the fact that gwfs and HRs are going to be re-tuned). It's the PRONES that are our counter.
DC's are actually at a PERFECT state if you consider build choice and skill
Perfect state, build choice - I am actually lost for words that someone can say this.
Putting those near mythical comments aside - where they belong - we once again have a top geared person running with pre-mades who boasts of success.
This is like 1% of the game play carried out by 1% of the players, and you use this to state that everything is perfect. What about the other 99% of players who do not get to this level? Should they have to put up with other equally geared classes wiping them with a couple of skill actions, because, you know, the class is ok in a top geared pre-made group?
So you're point is that "I'm ok in my elite group, so everything must be perfect" How ridiculous is this position? Does the GWF have this? Does the HR have this? No. Then why should the DC?
Playing this class shouldn't be a sacrifice for 99% of the players outside this elitism posting, it should be competitive all the way through. It isn't, not by along way.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
I rarely run with pre-mades. While I find it fun at times to go with 5/5 top tier players against 5 other top tier players... I have just as much fun with the variety factor in Solo Q.
I have two DC's, both geared for pvp (one has significantly poor rolls... 10 constitution lol) and rank 6's. He does just fine in solo Q as well. I play him to remind myself that gear makes thing ridiculously more simple, and how a gear disparity can be frustrating.... especially with ~12k average gearscore.
You seem to be under the impression that due to my supposed elitism (which I tend to be from time to time, I admit ^^) I am biased. No, I really do think that clerics are in a good state. Let's say that your figures are correct... 99% of clerics did a few things incorrectly... let's not even take gearSCORE into account just for funsies for now.
Did these clerics....
Roll high con/dex?
annointed champion?
... know how divinity works... (I'm sure you know how unsurprising it is that this mechanic is ....somehow difficult for people to get good at)
Memorize basic cooldowns that will make you have a bad time (6-7 seconds for takedown for instance)
My alt cleric has 12k gearscore and can tank fairly well considering that I enchant my gear to reach certain defensive threshholds before worrying about anything else.
That being said.... I wish I had an HR that had all the boons :P because I often think of what you say... why take a DC with NO damage and semi-decent sustain when you can have another class that does those things and provides far more pressure?
No real reason. I'd have more to offer as an HR ^^ but I love playing healers so we'll have to wait it out until we're "fixed" (although I still stand by my opinion that clerics are fine as far as mechanics are concerned... once the prone nerfs come in I think we'll see a vast improvement)
The more we play, the more we understand the importance of rolling a con/dex AC cleric and how it affects our gameplay. But, there are 2 issue to be mentioned here:
1. Our own primary and secondary class abilities is the worst choice for our class in pvp.
2. We never get a race with any bonus of STR/WIS/CHA to maximise our potential in pve and pvp (if you consider healing and dps).
3. Other classes can still steamroll or play fairly well despite not having the best roll or best spec, but DC... hmm... you know what i mean here.
4. Other well geared guys can give a lot of contribution and lead to winning the match. DC?? You expect he can kill all + heal all + tank all? Anyone say DC OP before??
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I rarely run with pre-mades. While I find it fun at times to go with 5/5 top tier players against 5 other top tier players... I have just as much fun with the variety factor in Solo Q.
I have two DC's, both geared for pvp (one has significantly poor rolls... 10 constitution lol) and rank 6's. He does just fine in solo Q as well. I play him to remind myself that gear makes thing ridiculously more simple, and how a gear disparity can be frustrating.... especially with ~12k average gearscore.
You seem to be under the impression that due to my supposed elitism (which I tend to be from time to time, I admit ^^) I am biased. No, I really do think that clerics are in a good state. Let's say that your figures are correct... 99% of clerics did a few things incorrectly... let's not even take gearSCORE into account just for funsies for now.
Did these clerics....
Roll high con/dex?
annointed champion?
... know how divinity works... (I'm sure you know how unsurprising it is that this mechanic is ....somehow difficult for people to get good at)
Memorize basic cooldowns that will make you have a bad time (6-7 seconds for takedown for instance)
My alt cleric has 12k gearscore and can tank fairly well considering that I enchant my gear to reach certain defensive threshholds before worrying about anything else.
That being said.... I wish I had an HR that had all the boons :P because I often think of what you say... why take a DC with NO damage and semi-decent sustain when you can have another class that does those things and provides far more pressure?
No real reason. I'd have more to offer as an HR ^^ but I love playing healers so we'll have to wait it out until we're "fixed" (although I still stand by my opinion that clerics are fine as far as mechanics are concerned... once the prone nerfs come in I think we'll see a vast improvement)
Ohhh good. So you heal like a mad man with your con/dex roll? Even more so with so much defensive stats and build!! Your contribution to the party should be invaluable. Surely a gfw, hr or tr can't do any better. What are their 5k+ damage every swing against your 200hp/sec!!
You know what? Now I know I was wrong. Your anecdotal post shed some light.
Now seriously, you are NOT a ****ing healer. With HD and the setup you suggest you heal for nothing. Please refrain to call yourself an healer.
You are a cast iron stove. You don't bring almost nothing to the party except your survivability.
The cast iron stove comment was probably one of the more hilarious things I've read on the forums. (not being sarcastic, I'm lewling pretty good :P ) I may not be a true healer in the sense of 30% HP to Full in 1 rotation, but I work with what I'm given.
Sustain is pretty useful during rotations, but I did agree with others that I would bring more to the party in this current state of the game as, say, an HR than a DC, but it's a shame I enjoy the cast-iron stove / support / baking role.
What sort of changes would you employ? I have a feeling that anything they do will either VASTLY improve us to the point of retardation, or gut us further. Perhaps just modifying healing depression to work with lifesteal/regen only and go from there.
Jazz, you bring up excellent points that I actually hadn't thought about before because out of my 3 60s, one is a CW that I rarely play (and CW's aren't in a steamroll sort of state)... and I agree with all of your statements.
Whilst you are there doing very little with your cast iron stove, maybe you make pizza for the group? At least then it's some use.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
I don't know, if devs tone down the damage output of some class (which seems their plan for mod4....but usually they end up giving thermonuclear warheads to gwf), maybe that would be enough for us.
The obvious one - remove our self healing debuff/penatly (whatever you want to call it). This doesn't impact on the group, so no need to worry about the impact there.
Make the class more than an Iron Stove. The DC shouldn't have the same dps as the striker classes, that is normal for a healer/support class. This lowering of dps output is normally mitigated by healing abilities - to the group and to the healer/support.
So you want to heal - to actively help your group mates, the game describes you as healer/support, that's why you chose this class in the first place. Well you build that way and you can, right up to the moment you are immediately blitzed. Then the old saying rings true - You can't heal dead.
At present the DC is only half a class. Either a healer that gets killed easily, or a survivor that does very little.
Some people may enjoy having a class build that does very little, existing purely to take up time as players beat on it. Practice dummies also do this, but are slightly less mobile.
Is this what this leader class has been relegated to? A mobile practice dummy, there just to occupy other players time? What an awful state for this class.
To be able to heal effectively and with reasonable surviveability. Bring the two halves of this class together to make a whole one.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
The last time clerics had an interesting way to inlfuence pvp was when exaltation was introduced to the game and it provided immunity to all things in divine mode. I can still hear the echo of the original scream from tr's running through the forums.
I would love if the two halves of that were put together. HOWEVER - there needs to be improvement to the matchmaking system so that equally geared opponents fight each other. It doesn't matter how balanced the cleric gets whats with fighting someone with 3,000 more gearscore than you.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The obvious one - remove our self healing debuff/penatly (whatever you want to call it). This doesn't impact on the group, so no need to worry about the impact there.
Make the class more than an Iron Stove. The DC shouldn't have the same dps as the striker classes, that is normal for a healer/support class. This lowering of dps output is normally mitigated by healing abilities - to the group and to the healer/support.
So you want to heal - to actively help your group mates, the game describes you as healer/support, that's why you chose this class in the first place. Well you build that way and you can, right up to the moment you are immediately blitzed. Then the old saying rings true - You can't heal dead.
At present the DC is only half a class. Either a healer that gets killed easily, or a survivor that does very little.
Some people may enjoy having a class build that does very little, existing purely to take up time as players beat on it. Practice dummies also do this, but are slightly less mobile.
Is this what this leader class has been relegated to? A mobile practice dummy, there just to occupy other players time? What an awful state for this class.
To be able to heal effectively and with reasonable surviveability. Bring the two halves of this class together to make a whole one.
The last time clerics had an interesting way to inlfuence pvp was when exaltation was introduced to the game and it provided immunity to all things in divine mode. I can still hear the echo of the original scream from tr's running through the forums.
I would love if the two halves of that were put together. HOWEVER - there needs to be improvement to the matchmaking system so that equally geared opponents fight each other. It doesn't matter how balanced the cleric gets whats with fighting someone with 3,000 more gearscore than you.
+1
Just to say I agree with you
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
Almost forgot, one thing I want badly: linked spirit working as intended (that is on AS too)
Bumped and needs fixing, but a bit of a side track from the main overhaul that some areas of this class needs.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited June 2014
DC really need an offensive buff. Absolutely terrible that I'm using terrorizing insight, high prophet, and a plague fire only to STILL have a slow time wearing things down. My CW can kill an elite in solo content with just 2 encounters, TR can kill with 2 DFs, and DC uses an entire rotation of offensive powers and they're still alive.
You probably would want to stop arguing with Iyon and just start asking him for tips/advice.
I've seen that guy survive for minutes on a node against 2x players (cough GWFs, CWs and HRs) from the top-4 pvp guilds.
Which means we have to agree DC is fine and no need any buff nor rework but maybe some nerfs to tone down DC OPness so it can no longer tank 2 ppl above in extreme BIS gear?? We should also keep having life steal and arp set every module, not having any race with any two of primary/secondary abilities score, and be the only class which its primary and secondary is the worst choice to be competitive?? And our feats is too good and need more broken and useless one, despite we are having 3 worst capstone feats?? Well if you support his statement, then it is time for us to ask for nerfs, we are too good in premade and need to be toned down.
Lol... He just mentioned DC is fine in high end premade especially in stalemate situations, those who pvp much know this as well, but this does not deny the fact DC is quite underpowered in unarranged match and contribute lesser to the team by himself even he is skilled and well-geared. In fact, in normal matches (excluding BIS premade team), any class can do more if they take over DC slot in pvp, you know this as well don't you?? You expect a good DC to kill a lot, heal a lot and tank a lot to victory?? Other ppl rather take a 18k destroyer GWF into pvp than a 18k DC, no matter what spec the DC is.
You probably would want to stop arguing with Iyon and just start asking him for tips/advice.
I've seen that guy survive for minutes on a node against 2x players (cough GWFs, CWs and HRs) from the top-4 pvp guilds.
Video or didn't happen.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited June 2014
Couple points:
It's not that DCs are effective only in BiS teams. It's that we're effective in evenly matched teams. Could be 2 teams running around in rank 5s and 1 green artifact.
Properly built GWFs and HRs are overpowered currently. This does not mean DCs need a buff.
DC feats are relatively weak. However, it's important to grade the class in its entirety and not piece-by-piece. In an evenly matched team and with some GWF and HR adjustments, DCs are fine and don't need buffs. I would like the mount time reverted, though.
Iyon the Dark
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's not that DCs are effective only in BiS teams. It's that we're effective in evenly matched teams. Could be 2 teams running around in rank 5s and 1 green artifact.
Properly built GWFs and HRs are overpowered currently. This does not mean DCs need a buff.
DC feats are relatively weak. However, it's important to grade the class in its entirety and not piece-by-piece. In an evenly matched team and with some GWF and HR adjustments, DCs are fine and don't need buffs. I would like the mount time reverted, though.
We are NOT fine. If you like to be a dodging rock, not being able to do anything else then survive, more power to you.
I think that's the most unrewarding and boring role in neverwinter.
And for god sake, don't give me the bull**** you heal like a madman, because it is simply untrue. You throw your little heals on people who don't need them. Try to heal a cw cought by a 18k gwf with your build.
Well, even with a full healer build the cw many times is toasted anyways, but maybe you will able to make him survive the first rotation while his stamina replenish.
There is not any gratification in pvp for clerics.
And everything being equal, is better give your spot in the party to another class.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited June 2014
The gratification is in winning or in your team playing above expectations. DCs often post terrible k:d ratios in tough wins. It doesn't feel good to see that. But it doesn't mean the DC was ineffective.
Consider a perma-stealth rogue that goes 0-0 in a 2 hour match but constantly contests enemy node. Boring, not gratifying, but it is effective.
A DC should keep people alive. The 'dodging rock' and 'cast iron stove' builds accomplish this task. If you choose to heal more, then you will sacrifice survivability. Try Miracle Healer if you want to heal more in pvp. Otherwise, try out the tank builds. Nice to have 2 viable options.
You probably would want to stop arguing with Iyon and just start asking him for tips/advice.
I've seen that guy survive for minutes on a node against 2x players (cough GWFs, CWs and HRs) from the top-4 pvp guilds.
Stand there and get hit for a few minutes.....that's it? That's where we have got to with this class? The pinnacle of interesting mmo play?
If only I could bring my Aion Cleric into this game, that would show people how a good heal/support class should be specified.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The gratification is in winning or in your team playing above expectations. DCs often post terrible k:d ratios in tough wins. It doesn't feel good to see that. But it doesn't mean the DC was ineffective.
Consider a perma-stealth rogue that goes 0-0 in a 2 hour match but constantly contests enemy node. Boring, not gratifying, but it is effective.
A DC should keep people alive. The 'dodging rock' and 'cast iron stove' builds accomplish this task. If you choose to heal more, then you will sacrifice survivability. Try Miracle Healer if you want to heal more in pvp. Otherwise, try out the tank builds. Nice to have 2 viable options.
No and no.
It's boring like ****ing hell.
And again you should run some math. Your heals don't keep anybody alive. You are fooling yourself thinking that your petty heals mean something with the damage thrown around by gwfs, hr and hell, even cw.
And in MH they can actually almost one shot you, if you don't go con/dex+defensive build. And that way you still don't heal ****.
For christ sake, there is at least a cleric who can count? I know, I understand, you are the elite pvpers. But the fact you are bis geared and play with only high gs people, made you think that your spot is well deserved.
Wake up call: are the monster gwf, tr and hr...even cw, that win your match. You run around a pole for the whole fight duration and then congratulate yourself for your stellar performance.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
And before you say something about me: I repeat I have every armor/weapon set, I have/had 7 legendary artifacts, I have/had any perfect enchantment, I'm full rank 9/10. And I only pug but managed to be in the first 50 pages of the leaderboard (no more now, after an unlucky serie of matchmaking...grrrrrrr)
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited June 2014
Do you play a striker class? Have you ever seen the impact an effective DC has in match? Tanky DCs bring people from near death to ~full hp during a fight. Regularly.
You can choose to believe that several posters in this thread are lying and/or absolutely oblivious despite playing the class since closed beta. Or you can choose to figure out how to play the class most effectively.
Iyon the Dark
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brzezin1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited June 2014
I saw some synergy dc and i think thats they are usseles, only you can heal something but this is not much, i have some fights with your squad and you ussualy die at one max two our gwf combo so dc is OP nerf ....Compare to hr or gwf we are like a willager vs immortal xd
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
I just hope we can heal and keep our ability to save our allies without sacrificing our survivability too much. I tried our BI purified set, however since we lost our divinity gain, HW/Ex/AS is no longer possible as we got 2 and a half divinity-eater-encounters. I have to use sunburst + divine fortune to generate more divinity for immunity shield and have to discard AS from my rotation. And yes, i don't heal in pug anymore, i give up my healer role at mid long time ago and turned into a base/backcapper, playing as a good 1v1 regenerating immortal for those annoying perma. Still, wins the game better than a healing DC.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I just hope we can heal and keep our ability to save our allies without sacrificing our survivability too much. I tried our BI purified set, however since we lost our divinity gain, HW/Ex/AS is no longer possible as we got 2 and a half divinity-eater-encounters. I have to use sunburst + divine fortune to generate more divinity for immunity shield and have to discard AS from my rotation. And yes, i don't heal in pug anymore, i give up my healer role at mid long time ago and turned into a base/backcapper, playing as a good 1v1 regenerating immortal for those annoying perma. Still, wins the game better than a healing DC.
This is what I'm trying to say: you can choose to be almost immortal, but that means your heals will be so tiny that they will mean something only on classes with high damage mitigation (basically yourself and gwf in unstoppable).
But I still feel that bring another class instead of you would be better.
Comments
I prove this by the majority of my gameplay being solo-Q, and understanding the stupidity of the majority of the playerbase. I've been the #1 ranked "leaderboard" cleric the majority of the time since Mod 3 hit... mostly to prove a point.
That point being that at the high end, clerics are quite okay. I honestly think that we are in a good spot once the prones are toned down a bit. I switch from MH to black ice to profound on a day by day basis just to keep up with trends, but all in all solo Q remains the same.
I have the most fun in a TIGHT match with 5 of my friends vs 5 people that are geared and know what they're doing... those who say that DC's bring little to the table (or "any class would do better!") are mistaken. If equal and both teams are in stalemates...which allows for roaming heals... the DC can bring an amazing amount of utility that is very rarely seen due to the fact that playing a support class at the highest level takes a certain suicidal and masochistic personality...
At any rate, DC's are actually at a PERFECT state if you consider build choice and skill (and the fact that gwfs and HRs are going to be re-tuned). It's the PRONES that are our counter.
Perfect state, build choice - I am actually lost for words that someone can say this.
Putting those near mythical comments aside - where they belong - we once again have a top geared person running with pre-mades who boasts of success.
This is like 1% of the game play carried out by 1% of the players, and you use this to state that everything is perfect. What about the other 99% of players who do not get to this level? Should they have to put up with other equally geared classes wiping them with a couple of skill actions, because, you know, the class is ok in a top geared pre-made group?
So you're point is that "I'm ok in my elite group, so everything must be perfect" How ridiculous is this position? Does the GWF have this? Does the HR have this? No. Then why should the DC?
Playing this class shouldn't be a sacrifice for 99% of the players outside this elitism posting, it should be competitive all the way through. It isn't, not by along way.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
I have two DC's, both geared for pvp (one has significantly poor rolls... 10 constitution lol) and rank 6's. He does just fine in solo Q as well. I play him to remind myself that gear makes thing ridiculously more simple, and how a gear disparity can be frustrating.... especially with ~12k average gearscore.
You seem to be under the impression that due to my supposed elitism (which I tend to be from time to time, I admit ^^) I am biased. No, I really do think that clerics are in a good state. Let's say that your figures are correct... 99% of clerics did a few things incorrectly... let's not even take gearSCORE into account just for funsies for now.
Did these clerics....
Roll high con/dex?
annointed champion?
... know how divinity works... (I'm sure you know how unsurprising it is that this mechanic is ....somehow difficult for people to get good at)
Memorize basic cooldowns that will make you have a bad time (6-7 seconds for takedown for instance)
My alt cleric has 12k gearscore and can tank fairly well considering that I enchant my gear to reach certain defensive threshholds before worrying about anything else.
That being said.... I wish I had an HR that had all the boons :P because I often think of what you say... why take a DC with NO damage and semi-decent sustain when you can have another class that does those things and provides far more pressure?
No real reason. I'd have more to offer as an HR ^^ but I love playing healers so we'll have to wait it out until we're "fixed" (although I still stand by my opinion that clerics are fine as far as mechanics are concerned... once the prone nerfs come in I think we'll see a vast improvement)
1. Our own primary and secondary class abilities is the worst choice for our class in pvp.
2. We never get a race with any bonus of STR/WIS/CHA to maximise our potential in pve and pvp (if you consider healing and dps).
3. Other classes can still steamroll or play fairly well despite not having the best roll or best spec, but DC... hmm... you know what i mean here.
4. Other well geared guys can give a lot of contribution and lead to winning the match. DC?? You expect he can kill all + heal all + tank all? Anyone say DC OP before??
Ohhh good. So you heal like a mad man with your con/dex roll? Even more so with so much defensive stats and build!! Your contribution to the party should be invaluable. Surely a gfw, hr or tr can't do any better. What are their 5k+ damage every swing against your 200hp/sec!!
You know what? Now I know I was wrong. Your anecdotal post shed some light.
Now seriously, you are NOT a ****ing healer. With HD and the setup you suggest you heal for nothing. Please refrain to call yourself an healer.
You are a cast iron stove. You don't bring almost nothing to the party except your survivability.
Sustain is pretty useful during rotations, but I did agree with others that I would bring more to the party in this current state of the game as, say, an HR than a DC, but it's a shame I enjoy the cast-iron stove / support / baking role.
What sort of changes would you employ? I have a feeling that anything they do will either VASTLY improve us to the point of retardation, or gut us further. Perhaps just modifying healing depression to work with lifesteal/regen only and go from there.
Jazz, you bring up excellent points that I actually hadn't thought about before because out of my 3 60s, one is a CW that I rarely play (and CW's aren't in a steamroll sort of state)... and I agree with all of your statements.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
So what changes would you want to see?
I don't know, if devs tone down the damage output of some class (which seems their plan for mod4....but usually they end up giving thermonuclear warheads to gwf), maybe that would be enough for us.
The obvious one - remove our self healing debuff/penatly (whatever you want to call it). This doesn't impact on the group, so no need to worry about the impact there.
Make the class more than an Iron Stove. The DC shouldn't have the same dps as the striker classes, that is normal for a healer/support class. This lowering of dps output is normally mitigated by healing abilities - to the group and to the healer/support.
So you want to heal - to actively help your group mates, the game describes you as healer/support, that's why you chose this class in the first place. Well you build that way and you can, right up to the moment you are immediately blitzed. Then the old saying rings true - You can't heal dead.
At present the DC is only half a class. Either a healer that gets killed easily, or a survivor that does very little.
Some people may enjoy having a class build that does very little, existing purely to take up time as players beat on it. Practice dummies also do this, but are slightly less mobile.
Is this what this leader class has been relegated to? A mobile practice dummy, there just to occupy other players time? What an awful state for this class.
To be able to heal effectively and with reasonable surviveability. Bring the two halves of this class together to make a whole one.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
I would love if the two halves of that were put together. HOWEVER - there needs to be improvement to the matchmaking system so that equally geared opponents fight each other. It doesn't matter how balanced the cleric gets whats with fighting someone with 3,000 more gearscore than you.
+1
+1
Just to say I agree with you
So bump this thread!
Bumped and needs fixing, but a bit of a side track from the main overhaul that some areas of this class needs.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
I've seen that guy survive for minutes on a node against 2x players (cough GWFs, CWs and HRs) from the top-4 pvp guilds.
Which means we have to agree DC is fine and no need any buff nor rework but maybe some nerfs to tone down DC OPness so it can no longer tank 2 ppl above in extreme BIS gear?? We should also keep having life steal and arp set every module, not having any race with any two of primary/secondary abilities score, and be the only class which its primary and secondary is the worst choice to be competitive?? And our feats is too good and need more broken and useless one, despite we are having 3 worst capstone feats?? Well if you support his statement, then it is time for us to ask for nerfs, we are too good in premade and need to be toned down.
Lol... He just mentioned DC is fine in high end premade especially in stalemate situations, those who pvp much know this as well, but this does not deny the fact DC is quite underpowered in unarranged match and contribute lesser to the team by himself even he is skilled and well-geared. In fact, in normal matches (excluding BIS premade team), any class can do more if they take over DC slot in pvp, you know this as well don't you?? You expect a good DC to kill a lot, heal a lot and tank a lot to victory?? Other ppl rather take a 18k destroyer GWF into pvp than a 18k DC, no matter what spec the DC is.
Video or didn't happen.
Iyon the Dark
We are NOT fine. If you like to be a dodging rock, not being able to do anything else then survive, more power to you.
I think that's the most unrewarding and boring role in neverwinter.
And for god sake, don't give me the bull**** you heal like a madman, because it is simply untrue. You throw your little heals on people who don't need them. Try to heal a cw cought by a 18k gwf with your build.
Well, even with a full healer build the cw many times is toasted anyways, but maybe you will able to make him survive the first rotation while his stamina replenish.
There is not any gratification in pvp for clerics.
And everything being equal, is better give your spot in the party to another class.
Consider a perma-stealth rogue that goes 0-0 in a 2 hour match but constantly contests enemy node. Boring, not gratifying, but it is effective.
A DC should keep people alive. The 'dodging rock' and 'cast iron stove' builds accomplish this task. If you choose to heal more, then you will sacrifice survivability. Try Miracle Healer if you want to heal more in pvp. Otherwise, try out the tank builds. Nice to have 2 viable options.
Iyon the Dark
Stand there and get hit for a few minutes.....that's it? That's where we have got to with this class? The pinnacle of interesting mmo play?
If only I could bring my Aion Cleric into this game, that would show people how a good heal/support class should be specified.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
No and no.
It's boring like ****ing hell.
And again you should run some math. Your heals don't keep anybody alive. You are fooling yourself thinking that your petty heals mean something with the damage thrown around by gwfs, hr and hell, even cw.
And in MH they can actually almost one shot you, if you don't go con/dex+defensive build. And that way you still don't heal ****.
For christ sake, there is at least a cleric who can count? I know, I understand, you are the elite pvpers. But the fact you are bis geared and play with only high gs people, made you think that your spot is well deserved.
Wake up call: are the monster gwf, tr and hr...even cw, that win your match. You run around a pole for the whole fight duration and then congratulate yourself for your stellar performance.
You can choose to believe that several posters in this thread are lying and/or absolutely oblivious despite playing the class since closed beta. Or you can choose to figure out how to play the class most effectively.
Iyon the Dark
again, reference:
Iyon the Dark
This is what I'm trying to say: you can choose to be almost immortal, but that means your heals will be so tiny that they will mean something only on classes with high damage mitigation (basically yourself and gwf in unstoppable).
But I still feel that bring another class instead of you would be better.