Stand there and get hit for a few minutes.....that's it? That's where we have got to with this class? The pinnacle of interesting mmo play?
If only I could bring my Aion Cleric into this game, that would show people how a good heal/support class should be specified.
No. He also, from what I've seen, is the best possible support/rotation and can heal his group quickly.
That last statement was just something I noticed that he could do that no other class/player I've seen do.
I think the DCs in this game are mostly incompetent. I'm thinking if Iyon could possibly be open to doing some coaching/training sessions....at a cost of course.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do you play a striker class? Have you ever seen the impact an effective DC has in match? Tanky DCs bring people from near death to ~full hp during a fight. Regularly.
You can choose to believe that several posters in this thread are lying and/or absolutely oblivious despite playing the class since closed beta. Or you can choose to figure out how to play the class most effectively.
In this case several means 2. You and another player. Both in a pvp guild. Should I continue?
And you are not an observer. Look at my join date. Yep, exactly, the same as yours.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
No. He also, from what I've seen, is the best possible support/rotation and can heal his group quickly.
That last statement was just something I noticed that he could do that no other class/player I've seen do.
I think the DCs in this game are mostly incompetent. I'm thinking if Iyon could possibly be open to doing some coaching/training sessions....at a cost of course.
So let me get this straight: he's immortal and he's healing like no other dc, right?
So his pg don't obey the same ruleset than the rest of us!
And the witness of this miracle is you, and we should belive you...because?
Do you even know exactly what spells a cleric has and how much do they heal?
So let me get this straight: he's immortal and he's healing like no other dc, right?
So his pg don't obey the same ruleset than the rest of us!
Which is why I suggested him providing training/coaching sessions on how to build your toon, what skills to use.
He is obviously doing something right that most of the incompetent DCs on this thread aren't doing.
Of course, we have to remember that time is money and I hope everyone would understand if Iyon charges for these sessions.
I'll repeat it: I don't know it. I have a DC that is incompetent. You don't know it, you also have a DC that is incompetent. Iyon has a competent DC. Get that in your head. Now stop complaining and start asking for help, not from me but from Iyon.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Which is why I suggested him providing training/coaching sessions on how to build your toon, what skills to use.
He is obviously doing something right that most of the incompetent DCs on this thread aren't doing.
Of course, we have to remember that time is money and I hope everyone would understand if Iyon charges for these sessions.
I'll repeat it: I don't know it. I have a DC that is incompetent. You don't know it, you also have a DC that is incompetent. Iyon has a competent DC. Get that in your head. Now stop complaining and start asking for help, not from me but from Iyon.
Ahahahahaha,
yeah right. One cleric has it right. And the rest of us (even someone between the best known cleric in the community) don't.
If you don't have numbers or videos, please refrain to post again in this thread. Your anecdotal posts don't bring anything to the table.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
And I'd really like for everyone who say we are borderline OP to post a video of himself being OP.
Ahahahahaha,
yeah right. One cleric has it right. And the rest of us (even someone between the best known cleric in the community) don't.
If you don't have numbers or videos, please refrain to post again in this thread. Your anecdotal posts don't bring anything to the table.
I reckon you have never played against him then? Also I didn't say one cleric has it right. There are a few elite clerics in this game. I merely stated that you and I are part of the incompetent clerics list.
But just to make sure, the crux of the argument is that I cannot provide you links to the videos regarding these claims am I correct?
*If* it were to be true, you'd order a training session for $40/hour USD with him instantly and admit you are an incompetent DC?
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
and again, ahahahahahahah.
I have act log that show I'm able to heal over 1M hp during a pvp fight of normal lenght.
I played an healer in the last 10 year or so of mmorpg, and I was in the best progression guilds of my country in wow.
During vanilla wow, when we could use spell ranks, I used at least 15 healing spell to be mana efficent while keep everybody alive.
I think that the only incompetent one here is YOU.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
And there is not a magic math that only your dear friend obeys to: you use a con/dex/defensive stats build and you heal for nothing.
Not that we heal that much to start with, with healing depression.
Which is why I suggested him providing training/coaching sessions on how to build your toon, what skills to use.
He is obviously doing something right that most of the incompetent DCs on this thread aren't doing.
Of course, we have to remember that time is money and I hope everyone would understand if Iyon charges for these sessions.
I'll repeat it: I don't know it. I have a DC that is incompetent. You don't know it, you also have a DC that is incompetent. Iyon has a competent DC. Get that in your head. Now stop complaining and start asking for help, not from me but from Iyon.
In other words, 99,9% of all clerics need l2p, unlike, let's say gwf where only about 20% of them need to do so.
Because it is all about how unskilled clerics are (except of this one that possessed the secret knowledge). Riight...
Sorry I failed. I tried, but it was stronger than me.
But seriously, please keep it construcive, We don't want this thread locked, right?
In other words, 99,9% of all clerics need l2p, unlike, let's say gwf where only about 20% of them need to do so.
Because it is all about how unskilled clerics are (except of this one that possessed the secret knowledge). Riight...
Who said 99.9%? 20% of GWF? Are you trolling and making numbers up?
What secret knowledge are you talking about?
It is merely about proper build, proper items, proper skill slots, proper node rotations, good communication, good timing, and extensive knowledge and anticipation regarding other classes' skills used against you.
This is a thread about feedback devoted clerics please keep your delusional rambling trash off this thread thank you.
Who said 99.9%? 20% of GWF? Are you trolling and making numbers up?
In everything but a well set up premade the DC does horribly. It is also questionable to their benefit in those premade teams too. The biggest contribution a DC has in PvP is damage mitigation. Not healing and definitely not dps. The reason I say it is questionable is because I've seen two premades go at it and the team that brought a CW to roam nodes stomped the other that brought a DC. The CW completely shutdown the DC. And when the CW wasn't wiping the floor with the DC he helped assist clear and cap the nodes faster than the DC could even hope to do. And I won't name names (I can't by forum rules) but that DC is considered one of the best, whereas the CW is in meh standings on the leaderboard (good but definitely not top tier of CWs).
Also, why does someone who plays a CW in PvP care so much about the DC class to write in this thread?
Because if they actually buff DCs, that CW will lose an easy target.
Well, to be honest I don't play my DC in PvP anymore. I prefer my TR, GWF, or even my CW for that matter. CW has issues in PvP too, just not to the same extent as the DC.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
What hurt dc as a class are these "immortal" dc that think they have found some secret formula and that they provide who knows what contribution to the party just staying alive. And as a not understood prophet come here to spread the news that we are a wonderful class indeed!
Oh well, if they have a good time running all the fight around a node, when they are not choked, proned or whatever else, good for them.
What I don't understand is how they don't accept the fact that many other dc don't find that meta rewarding.
I will be running the new Tooltip training course for Mod-4 DCs - at a cost of course.
DC's who can miraculously carry out major healing whilst also being invincible are welcome, but will have to take a truth serum before commencing the course.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
I will be running the new Tooltip training course for Mod-4 DCs - at a cost of course.
DC's who can miraculously carry out major healing whilst also being invincible are welcome, but will have to take a truth serum before commencing the course.
What did i see? *Eye popped out*
The only good thing is, normally no one knows what the cleric should do in pug pvp. You assume him to heal you but when you die without any heal, you shout at him a lot of F words but he and other teammates tell you the cleric is contesting node at 1 or 3. Vice versa, if a cleric didn't stay in a node contesting mid but let it be red, he got a good accuse: floating here and there to heal instead of defending mid.
The only good thing is, normally no one knows what the cleric should do in pug pvp. You assume him to heal you but when you die without any heal, you shout at him a lot of F words but he and other teammates tell you the cleric is contesting node at 1 or 3. Vice versa, if a cleric didn't stay in a node contesting mid but let it be red, he got a good accuse: floating here and there to heal instead of defending mid.
Sounds legit.
It was done as a bit of humour. I'm sure everyone can get to grips with our fantastic change for Mod-4, this Tooltip revision.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Well, now just let us ignore all trolls but give out our suggestion to improve cleric.
1. Healing bypass healing depression, temporary hp given from cleric is not halved in pvp under healing depression.
2. Lance of Faith: Improve cast speed and damage but keep the low divinity gain. Make this the BIS at will for dps cleric. (SF beats LoF in any form from dps to divinity gain to atk speed)
3. Guardian of Faith: Double its damage and heal. Cast animation improved cuz it is too easy to dodge. Better if it ignores all sorts of immunity like TR dailies. Currently it hit a single target lesser and slower than an aoe encounter.
4. Remove sooth and replace with a good skill.
5. Bastion of Health: Improve cast speed and healing amount.
6. Hammer of Fate: Combine 3 hits into one, making it a huge nuke which ignores immunity. More competitive in pvp.
7. Anointed Army: Buff counters removed. Instead change it into seconds, 2/3/4 seconds immune to cc and damage will be better. Feated version makes the duration longer and grants AP to the others. These changes make AA more qualified as an ultimate level 60 daily.
8. Prophetic Action: ICD is dramatically decreased to 15/10/5 seconds.
Well, now just let us ignore all trolls but give out our suggestion to improve cleric.
1. Healing bypass healing depression, temporary hp given from cleric is not halved in pvp under healing depression.
2. Lance of Faith: Improve cast speed and damage but keep the low divinity gain. Make this the BIS at will for dps cleric. (SF beats LoF in any form from dps to divinity gain to atk speed)
3. Guardian of Faith: Double its damage and heal. Cast animation improved cuz it is too easy to dodge. Better if it ignores all sorts of immunity like TR dailies. Currently it hit a single target lesser and slower than an aoe encounter.
4. Remove sooth and replace with a good skill.
5. Bastion of Health: Improve cast speed and healing amount.
6. Hammer of Fate: Combine 3 hits into one, making it a huge nuke which ignores immunity. More competitive in pvp.
7. Anointed Army: Buff counters removed. Instead change it into seconds, 2/3/4 seconds immune to cc and damage will be better. Feated version makes the duration longer and grants AP to the others. These changes make AA more qualified as an ultimate level 60 daily.
8. Prophetic Action: ICD is dramatically decreased to 15/10/5 seconds.
I will always have time for your suggestions, and once again I see a good post with constructive suggestions.
But I have to admit at this time to be jaded with the DC. Yourself and many others have put in a great deal of time and effort in trying to promote this class.
But after all this time, where has it got us? A recent change that added the healing debuff to a couple of our skills, and a tooltip change for the upcoming module 4. Compared with the efforts of the players, the support for this class from the game developers has been near non-existent
I feel now that you can only beat a drum for so long until you finally realise that no one is listening.
- and if no one is listening, why bother at all?
I feel we have reached the point with this class where it is now up to the developers to do some actions, to honour their responsibility with class support. - I am completely tired of vague promises that the DC may get looked at sometime in the future.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
Well, now just let us ignore all trolls but give out our suggestion to improve cleric.
1. Healing bypass healing depression, temporary hp given from cleric is not halved in pvp under healing depression.
2. Lance of Faith: Improve cast speed and damage but keep the low divinity gain. Make this the BIS at will for dps cleric. (SF beats LoF in any form from dps to divinity gain to atk speed)
3. Guardian of Faith: Double its damage and heal. Cast animation improved cuz it is too easy to dodge. Better if it ignores all sorts of immunity like TR dailies. Currently it hit a single target lesser and slower than an aoe encounter.
4. Remove sooth and replace with a good skill.
5. Bastion of Health: Improve cast speed and healing amount.
6. Hammer of Fate: Combine 3 hits into one, making it a huge nuke which ignores immunity. More competitive in pvp.
7. Anointed Army: Buff counters removed. Instead change it into seconds, 2/3/4 seconds immune to cc and damage will be better. Feated version makes the duration longer and grants AP to the others. These changes make AA more qualified as an ultimate level 60 daily.
8. Prophetic Action: ICD is dramatically decreased to 15/10/5 seconds.
Some good ideas here.
1. removing rigteousness would be even better of course. If I were to lvl up another cleric now, I'll be using pots or waters artifact since even FF is meh now. But since for some reasons devs want to keep it as it is, your idea would at least make healing better in pvp.
2. Dunno, I would still use SF. Wait, that would mean Lance really needs a buff
3. Double may not be enough if you ask me.
4. This. Just... this. How about some cc? Or something that gives cc immunity?
5. Or: like in point 4.
6. Restoring it to the former glory would work too. If I'm not mistaken, devs said they wanted to improve this skill long months ago, btw.
7. I would be happy if they they would just remove the "3 hits and over" thing.
8. Too good to ever happen.
Also I'd like to see this changes:
- Divine Glow's radius doubled (or at least 50% bigger, please, please)
- Daunting Light normal mode radius increased to the size of divine one. Divine version gets a dmg buff*.
* Or wait, buff the dmg of normal version, divine can be weaker because normal is "bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...Ka-Boom!" and divine only "Ka-Boom!". That would increase the coolness factor.
Who knows, maybe devs will do something someday afterall? Or maybe even after all those nerfs to other classes we'll be the new FotM for some time.
....What? One can always dream, right?
Pre-M3 i got some information from the devs. They said they have many more stuffs which have higher priority than fixing our bugs, reworking broken cleric feats and skills. However, they said since the Punishing Light bug is also a high priority issue, they fixed it immediately and put it in preview the next day (while AS remains broken with linked spirit...). Now it is M4 and we got a tooltip description change for one skill, the devs said they are "looking on" clerics and tr issue too, but now they are focusing on the other 4 classes... So, the most optimistic thinking for me is we will get a 100% guaranteed Devoted Cleric revamp mostly in Dec 2014, along with a new paragon which makes us OP and be the FotM class for several weeks, starting after M5.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Pre-M3 i got some information from the devs. They said they have many more stuffs which have higher priority than fixing our bugs, reworking broken cleric feats and skills. However, they said since the Punishing Light bug is also a high priority issue, they fixed it immediately and put it in preview the next day (while AS remains broken with linked spirit...). Now it is M4 and we got a tooltip description change for one skill, the devs said they are "looking on" clerics and tr issue too, but now they are focusing on the other 4 classes... So, the most optimistic thinking for me is we will get a 100% guaranteed Devoted Cleric revamp mostly in Dec 2014, along with a new paragon which makes us OP and be the FotM class for several weeks, starting after M5.
It is really hard to believe that they had the time to look at gwf two mods in a row, making them everytime stronger. And now, they are at it again trying to fix/nerf it (and I don't think they will succeed even this time as they are already rolling back some changes because of the whinage...ooops, constructive criticism)
Meanwhile almost all the rest of neverwinter had to cope with frustrating pve and pvp experience.
Maybe the have a plan, but I really have never seen a mmorpg with broken class mechanics that are not still fixed after several months. Discouraging indeed.
2. Lance of Faith: Improve cast speed and damage but keep the low divinity gain. Make this the BIS at will for dps
Yes! Currently I see no reason to ever slot it since Sacred Flame fires faster, does pretty much the same damage, and gives better divinity. To truly make these two at-wills really distinct is to do what you stated.
8. Prophetic Action: ICD is dramatically decreased to 15/10/5 seconds.
I would almost rather see it state it ignores damage on the X hit instead of using a cooldown timer. This would mean that a DC under sustained damage would proc it more. Maybe 30/20/10. At rank 3 that would mean 1 out of 10 hits would be ignored.
Some additions to your ideas:
Searing Light: this laser beam thin AoE is far too difficult to use for rather insignificant damage. It needs to be wider and include a guide (similar to CW Sudden Storm but more narrow and longer range).
Cleanse: rarely procs, even when feated. The feat needs raised. This is especially true with the new Oppressor CWs we will be seeing in Mod 4.
Congratulations on driving away from this topic 3 of the best clerics on the game: iyon the dark, Demo and Hot Pants. Each of them is having fun and helped their teams win countless times.
Yet again however, you trolled each of them, taunted them with how what they do is pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and how only what YOU want for the DC is supposed to be fun and useful.
Also you accused them of lying (that they cannot heal properly while also being tanky), and explained that a DC cannot heal bad built for PvP toons, as if we are supposed to even bother talking about bad builds and people that come unprepared for PvP.
Should you listen to:
1. 3 BiS DCs that hold a very respected and acknowledged place in the PvP community
2. a few unknown "healer" DCs that I never saw once in my life in PvP
I hope you can see now how ridiculous your pleas sound. It's just as if an HR would come to complain his class needs buffs cause split shot and fox shift were nerfed, all the while he could spec pathfinder and be OP.
I respect those elite DC and asked some of them for advice regularly. However, since you said DC built for great healing and support is only just for fun and should not be competitive like those node capping meta, i challenged you to post a new thread in gameplay forum, saying DC is well-balanced in pvp, instead of buffs we need some nerfs to tone us down as we can tank 2 or more average guys in BIS items, healing DC is just a fake story but the only competitive one should tank and give little to none heals WITHOUT EXPLOITING. I wonder how many guys will flame you, you didn't see how many guys defended clerics from being tortured by healing depression in mid M2.
Copy and paste this to Gameplay forum: "DC is too OP in PvP, NERF THEM!!!"
"DC is OP in PvP, he doesn't need skills and feats rework nor buffs but only need more healing nerfs. He is not the worst class in pvp (aligned with GF) and we should tone him down cause we will lost a easy free kill if we buff them. DC is so threathening, when i see him in pvp my heart beats so fast and i turn around and run instead of battling him like a CW meet a GWF. He hits me like a truck and kill me in a rotation, while he is still having 99% HP. He has tons of cc powers and can cc me to death!! His mobility is too OP, he dodge here and there for 2 times, more if feated, better than HR unlimited dodge and marauder rush/escape!! His self heal is also very OP, he heals himself more than the total amount of two M4 HRs healing themselves in pvp set and wild medicine feats. How can i kill him when he heal himself so much??
NERF DC!!!!!
This is the real status of DC in pvp if you see it in the opposite way. Yes i am a pvp nubbish newbie so you dont see me often, the rest clerics here are also nubs cuz you dont even meet us. We mostly pug, working 8-10 hours per day and some of us play when you sleep. Since you are so pro, i challenge you to roll a new cleric, i will use only R5s with my abandoned useless pvp healer DC against your BIS meta cleric. Lets see how you kill my healer with your meta cleric. Flame war stops here and should end in game. I pretty sure after you play cleric for a month or two you will know what we feel. Don't use too much AD, or else you don't feel what average cleric player feel. Ready to be stomped by every classes except DC?? You will be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like me, suiciding to win the match every game. This, is cleric.
Edit: Give constructive ideas, not flaming thanks.
There might be somekind of an oversight.. and that is the other mechanic that is outside of the DC class itself..Sure our healing alone is quite weak (esp to ourselves).. but we also have to consider the Lifesteal stat of our pt members,
and more importantly, our 'new' righteousness dictate that merely our presence alone adds 70% more efficiency to their Lifesteal (and other incoming healing too i think). What we bring to the table might be more than we realized.
The most important thing that we have to learn in this NW game, is that we have to be able to 'adapt' with each major change. Tanky builds seems to still be viable while providing reasonable support to our pt.. (no, i wont call our astral shield mitigation useless or our class a cast iron stove or whatever). I've also read in kaelac's guide that the blue AS doesnt only provide mitigation, but 30% more healing bonus (not sure if the bonus only applies to other members, or ourselves as well). I've yet to test it. I dont see many variation either to the DPS part.. So, it is the general rule that in order to do the PVP, our build must be specific to that particular one. For cleric, there seems to be only 1 viable build, since the healing focused build clearly isnt viable anymore .. and many other DPSer are tank-centric for PVP as well.. So..yea, gotta be tanky in PVP.
If the righteousness is removed , the tanky build clerics will become even more tankier, and that might tip the balance.. 1v1 node contesting against competent and equal DPSer, we will surely die sooner or later, no matter how good we are, but that clearly isnt our role to begin with... We (the support DCs) are floaters, and in non-competent teams.. we WILL suffer. It happens alot esp when we are pugging. Which i identify as the source of frustration most of us arent content with. With the right build, DCs are still viable, but we also have to consider those really bad feats that plagues most of our feat choice! We could still use some improvement to allow more variations while not affecting game balance.
Another real issue here is the broken feat a class is having, that can dish out such strong bursts with highly reliable prones. I guess we will see more once the broken feat issue is fixed in the next mod to really see.. I hope our survivability improve highly after that.
@prone
your elitist comment has its point.. but pls also consider the overall majority of people that also plays this game? Do all people have to be end-game BIS with 1 certain build that has reached maxed potential to enjoy DC class in PVP? Because you have to admit, DC relies alot to the competent-ness of the team he/she's in more than other class
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Congratulations on driving away from this topic 3 of the best clerics on the game: iyon the dark, Demo and Hot Pants. Each of them is having fun and helped their teams win countless times.
Yet again however, you trolled each of them, taunted them with how what they do is pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and how only what YOU want for the DC is supposed to be fun and useful.
Also you accused them of lying (that they cannot heal properly while also being tanky), and explained that a DC cannot heal bad built for PvP toons, as if we are supposed to even bother talking about bad builds and people that come unprepared for PvP.
Should you listen to:
1. 3 BiS DCs that hold a very respected and acknowledged place in the PvP community
2. a few unknown "healer" DCs that I never saw once in my life in PvP
I hope you can see now how ridiculous your pleas sound. It's just as if an HR would come to complain his class needs buffs cause split shot and fox shift were nerfed, all the while he could spec pathfinder and be OP.
Think about it.
And again you prove to be an elitist jerk without a real understanding of dc class and what we are saying.
Your friend DC can say whatever they like: if you choose to be a tanky dc you won't heal ****. Your heals will be enough for your 18kgws, but that's it.
Have you got a DC? Have you ever look at act log to see how dc heals behave? I suppose you don't, you just like to say "we are elitist, we are cool: you should all listen to us". You don't even consider that some of us DON'T like the builds your friends are proposing. They force you to a BORING gameplay.
These immortal DC have not better skill/gears than the rest of us. They just like that meta. Good for them. But that doesn't make them great healers. Everybody can boast about being a great healer when they play with 18k gwf.
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No. He also, from what I've seen, is the best possible support/rotation and can heal his group quickly.
That last statement was just something I noticed that he could do that no other class/player I've seen do.
I think the DCs in this game are mostly incompetent. I'm thinking if Iyon could possibly be open to doing some coaching/training sessions....at a cost of course.
In this case several means 2. You and another player. Both in a pvp guild. Should I continue?
And you are not an observer. Look at my join date. Yep, exactly, the same as yours.
So let me get this straight: he's immortal and he's healing like no other dc, right?
So his pg don't obey the same ruleset than the rest of us!
And the witness of this miracle is you, and we should belive you...because?
Do you even know exactly what spells a cleric has and how much do they heal?
Which is why I suggested him providing training/coaching sessions on how to build your toon, what skills to use.
He is obviously doing something right that most of the incompetent DCs on this thread aren't doing.
Of course, we have to remember that time is money and I hope everyone would understand if Iyon charges for these sessions.
I'll repeat it: I don't know it. I have a DC that is incompetent. You don't know it, you also have a DC that is incompetent. Iyon has a competent DC. Get that in your head. Now stop complaining and start asking for help, not from me but from Iyon.
Ahahahahaha,
yeah right. One cleric has it right. And the rest of us (even someone between the best known cleric in the community) don't.
If you don't have numbers or videos, please refrain to post again in this thread. Your anecdotal posts don't bring anything to the table.
I reckon you have never played against him then? Also I didn't say one cleric has it right. There are a few elite clerics in this game. I merely stated that you and I are part of the incompetent clerics list.
But just to make sure, the crux of the argument is that I cannot provide you links to the videos regarding these claims am I correct?
*If* it were to be true, you'd order a training session for $40/hour USD with him instantly and admit you are an incompetent DC?
I have act log that show I'm able to heal over 1M hp during a pvp fight of normal lenght.
I played an healer in the last 10 year or so of mmorpg, and I was in the best progression guilds of my country in wow.
During vanilla wow, when we could use spell ranks, I used at least 15 healing spell to be mana efficent while keep everybody alive.
I think that the only incompetent one here is YOU.
Not that we heal that much to start with, with healing depression.
I... must... resist...
In other words, 99,9% of all clerics need l2p, unlike, let's say gwf where only about 20% of them need to do so.
Because it is all about how unskilled clerics are (except of this one that possessed the secret knowledge). Riight...
Sorry I failed. I tried, but it was stronger than me.
But seriously, please keep it construcive, We don't want this thread locked, right?
Who said 99.9%? 20% of GWF? Are you trolling and making numbers up?
What secret knowledge are you talking about?
It is merely about proper build, proper items, proper skill slots, proper node rotations, good communication, good timing, and extensive knowledge and anticipation regarding other classes' skills used against you.
This is a thread about feedback devoted clerics please keep your delusional rambling trash off this thread thank you.
In everything but a well set up premade the DC does horribly. It is also questionable to their benefit in those premade teams too. The biggest contribution a DC has in PvP is damage mitigation. Not healing and definitely not dps. The reason I say it is questionable is because I've seen two premades go at it and the team that brought a CW to roam nodes stomped the other that brought a DC. The CW completely shutdown the DC. And when the CW wasn't wiping the floor with the DC he helped assist clear and cap the nodes faster than the DC could even hope to do. And I won't name names (I can't by forum rules) but that DC is considered one of the best, whereas the CW is in meh standings on the leaderboard (good but definitely not top tier of CWs).
Also, why does someone who plays a CW in PvP care so much about the DC class to write in this thread?
Because if they actually buff DCs, that CW will lose an easy target.
Well, to be honest I don't play my DC in PvP anymore. I prefer my TR, GWF, or even my CW for that matter. CW has issues in PvP too, just not to the same extent as the DC.
Oh well, if they have a good time running all the fight around a node, when they are not choked, proned or whatever else, good for them.
What I don't understand is how they don't accept the fact that many other dc don't find that meta rewarding.
DC's who can miraculously carry out major healing whilst also being invincible are welcome, but will have to take a truth serum before commencing the course.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
What did i see? *Eye popped out*
The only good thing is, normally no one knows what the cleric should do in pug pvp. You assume him to heal you but when you die without any heal, you shout at him a lot of F words but he and other teammates tell you the cleric is contesting node at 1 or 3. Vice versa, if a cleric didn't stay in a node contesting mid but let it be red, he got a good accuse: floating here and there to heal instead of defending mid.
Sounds legit.
It was done as a bit of humour. I'm sure everyone can get to grips with our fantastic change for Mod-4, this Tooltip revision.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
1. Healing bypass healing depression, temporary hp given from cleric is not halved in pvp under healing depression.
2. Lance of Faith: Improve cast speed and damage but keep the low divinity gain. Make this the BIS at will for dps cleric. (SF beats LoF in any form from dps to divinity gain to atk speed)
3. Guardian of Faith: Double its damage and heal. Cast animation improved cuz it is too easy to dodge. Better if it ignores all sorts of immunity like TR dailies. Currently it hit a single target lesser and slower than an aoe encounter.
4. Remove sooth and replace with a good skill.
5. Bastion of Health: Improve cast speed and healing amount.
6. Hammer of Fate: Combine 3 hits into one, making it a huge nuke which ignores immunity. More competitive in pvp.
7. Anointed Army: Buff counters removed. Instead change it into seconds, 2/3/4 seconds immune to cc and damage will be better. Feated version makes the duration longer and grants AP to the others. These changes make AA more qualified as an ultimate level 60 daily.
8. Prophetic Action: ICD is dramatically decreased to 15/10/5 seconds.
I will always have time for your suggestions, and once again I see a good post with constructive suggestions.
But I have to admit at this time to be jaded with the DC. Yourself and many others have put in a great deal of time and effort in trying to promote this class.
But after all this time, where has it got us? A recent change that added the healing debuff to a couple of our skills, and a tooltip change for the upcoming module 4. Compared with the efforts of the players, the support for this class from the game developers has been near non-existent
I feel now that you can only beat a drum for so long until you finally realise that no one is listening.
- and if no one is listening, why bother at all?
I feel we have reached the point with this class where it is now up to the developers to do some actions, to honour their responsibility with class support. - I am completely tired of vague promises that the DC may get looked at sometime in the future.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Some good ideas here.
1. removing rigteousness would be even better of course. If I were to lvl up another cleric now, I'll be using pots or waters artifact since even FF is meh now. But since for some reasons devs want to keep it as it is, your idea would at least make healing better in pvp.
2. Dunno, I would still use SF. Wait, that would mean Lance really needs a buff
3. Double may not be enough if you ask me.
4. This. Just... this. How about some cc? Or something that gives cc immunity?
5. Or: like in point 4.
6. Restoring it to the former glory would work too. If I'm not mistaken, devs said they wanted to improve this skill long months ago, btw.
7. I would be happy if they they would just remove the "3 hits and over" thing.
8. Too good to ever happen.
Also I'd like to see this changes:
- Divine Glow's radius doubled (or at least 50% bigger, please, please)
- Daunting Light normal mode radius increased to the size of divine one. Divine version gets a dmg buff*.
* Or wait, buff the dmg of normal version, divine can be weaker because normal is "bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...Ka-Boom!" and divine only "Ka-Boom!". That would increase the coolness factor.
Who knows, maybe devs will do something someday afterall? Or maybe even after all those nerfs to other classes we'll be the new FotM for some time.
....What? One can always dream, right?
It is really hard to believe that they had the time to look at gwf two mods in a row, making them everytime stronger. And now, they are at it again trying to fix/nerf it (and I don't think they will succeed even this time as they are already rolling back some changes because of the whinage...ooops, constructive criticism)
Meanwhile almost all the rest of neverwinter had to cope with frustrating pve and pvp experience.
Maybe the have a plan, but I really have never seen a mmorpg with broken class mechanics that are not still fixed after several months. Discouraging indeed.
Yes! Currently I see no reason to ever slot it since Sacred Flame fires faster, does pretty much the same damage, and gives better divinity. To truly make these two at-wills really distinct is to do what you stated.
The funny thing is I can hit someone with it better than Healing Word in a pinch. It just sucks at healing.
In its current state it is a worthless heal ability. I never slot it.
Agreed. Animation cycle is way, way too long. One big hammer would be better. Needs a buff too to make it competitive with Ice Knife.
I would almost rather see it state it ignores damage on the X hit instead of using a cooldown timer. This would mean that a DC under sustained damage would proc it more. Maybe 30/20/10. At rank 3 that would mean 1 out of 10 hits would be ignored.
Some additions to your ideas:
Searing Light: this laser beam thin AoE is far too difficult to use for rather insignificant damage. It needs to be wider and include a guide (similar to CW Sudden Storm but more narrow and longer range).
Cleanse: rarely procs, even when feated. The feat needs raised. This is especially true with the new Oppressor CWs we will be seeing in Mod 4.
Yet again however, you trolled each of them, taunted them with how what they do is pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, and how only what YOU want for the DC is supposed to be fun and useful.
Also you accused them of lying (that they cannot heal properly while also being tanky), and explained that a DC cannot heal bad built for PvP toons, as if we are supposed to even bother talking about bad builds and people that come unprepared for PvP.
Should you listen to:
1. 3 BiS DCs that hold a very respected and acknowledged place in the PvP community
2. a few unknown "healer" DCs that I never saw once in my life in PvP
I hope you can see now how ridiculous your pleas sound. It's just as if an HR would come to complain his class needs buffs cause split shot and fox shift were nerfed, all the while he could spec pathfinder and be OP.
Think about it.
Copy and paste this to Gameplay forum: "DC is too OP in PvP, NERF THEM!!!"
"DC is OP in PvP, he doesn't need skills and feats rework nor buffs but only need more healing nerfs. He is not the worst class in pvp (aligned with GF) and we should tone him down cause we will lost a easy free kill if we buff them. DC is so threathening, when i see him in pvp my heart beats so fast and i turn around and run instead of battling him like a CW meet a GWF. He hits me like a truck and kill me in a rotation, while he is still having 99% HP. He has tons of cc powers and can cc me to death!! His mobility is too OP, he dodge here and there for 2 times, more if feated, better than HR unlimited dodge and marauder rush/escape!! His self heal is also very OP, he heals himself more than the total amount of two M4 HRs healing themselves in pvp set and wild medicine feats. How can i kill him when he heal himself so much??
Edit: Give constructive ideas, not flaming thanks.
and more importantly, our 'new' righteousness dictate that merely our presence alone adds 70% more efficiency to their Lifesteal (and other incoming healing too i think). What we bring to the table might be more than we realized.
The most important thing that we have to learn in this NW game, is that we have to be able to 'adapt' with each major change. Tanky builds seems to still be viable while providing reasonable support to our pt.. (no, i wont call our astral shield mitigation useless or our class a cast iron stove or whatever). I've also read in kaelac's guide that the blue AS doesnt only provide mitigation, but 30% more healing bonus (not sure if the bonus only applies to other members, or ourselves as well). I've yet to test it. I dont see many variation either to the DPS part.. So, it is the general rule that in order to do the PVP, our build must be specific to that particular one. For cleric, there seems to be only 1 viable build, since the healing focused build clearly isnt viable anymore .. and many other DPSer are tank-centric for PVP as well.. So..yea, gotta be tanky in PVP.
If the righteousness is removed , the tanky build clerics will become even more tankier, and that might tip the balance.. 1v1 node contesting against competent and equal DPSer, we will surely die sooner or later, no matter how good we are, but that clearly isnt our role to begin with... We (the support DCs) are floaters, and in non-competent teams.. we WILL suffer. It happens alot esp when we are pugging. Which i identify as the source of frustration most of us arent content with. With the right build, DCs are still viable, but we also have to consider those really bad feats that plagues most of our feat choice! We could still use some improvement to allow more variations while not affecting game balance.
Another real issue here is the broken feat a class is having, that can dish out such strong bursts with highly reliable prones. I guess we will see more once the broken feat issue is fixed in the next mod to really see.. I hope our survivability improve highly after that.
@prone
your elitist comment has its point.. but pls also consider the overall majority of people that also plays this game? Do all people have to be end-game BIS with 1 certain build that has reached maxed potential to enjoy DC class in PVP? Because you have to admit, DC relies alot to the competent-ness of the team he/she's in more than other class
And again you prove to be an elitist jerk without a real understanding of dc class and what we are saying.
Your friend DC can say whatever they like: if you choose to be a tanky dc you won't heal ****. Your heals will be enough for your 18kgws, but that's it.
Have you got a DC? Have you ever look at act log to see how dc heals behave? I suppose you don't, you just like to say "we are elitist, we are cool: you should all listen to us". You don't even consider that some of us DON'T like the builds your friends are proposing. They force you to a BORING gameplay.
These immortal DC have not better skill/gears than the rest of us. They just like that meta. Good for them. But that doesn't make them great healers. Everybody can boast about being a great healer when they play with 18k gwf.