Ignoring for a moment the what the changes mean for PvP, what is the general consensus of the impact of the GF changes for PvE purposes?
First, what do people think of the GF's ability to solo stuff in PvE? I have 4 characters at level 60 on Live, and I have found it pretty annoying how much longer content like the Dread Ring dailies takes for my GF than the other classes. Now, things are different on Preview, but I want to hear what others have to say too.
Second, how will the changes affect GF's desirability in groups - GFs have not exactly been a high-demand class - easy enough to get into random PUGs (because of the way the queue system works), but not exactly the most wanted class for some content, like Vt.
GF ~ Soloing ability will be far better with more DPS output, self buffing, combat advantage to himself automatically, higher damage in SM tree, and 2% higher hp pool.
There will still be the Elites that want more DPS, but so far the GGF will bring great utility, some great buffs, maintain awesome amounts of threat, be able to round up 20 adds himself, and have the potential to do some decent to great DPS!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The iron vanguard path still has much more dps than swordmaster or at least that's how it seems to me. i have been rolling swordmaster for a while and i love it and after having a few 1v1s i lost then switched to IV then i fought the same people and beat them. With swordmaster my full rotation got them to half hp and with IV my full rotation would almost kill them. Iv has trample the fallen and i think the daily is more damaging so all together it just still feels like the dps path and swordmaster is the tank path with steel defense.
Bug:
Our guard is not blocking a lot of control powers.
- Trample is good, but yeah, IV is just easier to use man, it is smoother, threat rush just sets up so many things. Swordmaster you sorta feel like you are running too much whereas IV has Threat Rush and Lunging. Idk. I actually thought swordmaster was doing more lol, but I couldn't get a lot of my setups going.
- The boost to flourish is freaking awesome, but pretty dang hard to land even after a bull charge. I almost wish bull charge was just a prone and not a knock back with frontline being a wasted encounter now. It'd make setting up the other moves a lot easier, and for some players "achievable" (it is easier for us who have played a lot)
Knights Challenge: Can still bug out and not be usable for a period of time when used often. Was testing activation with daily use queued right after.[/COLOR]
I had it happen once, but by habit I just always give it the full animation time because having it bug out can be so annoying. Especially in PVE (where I use it 99% of the time)
Is receiving 41k crit from 1 charge of Gripphon's Wrath something working as intended?
Well I think some gf have a glitch or something, on preview I have 4k power with 2.4k armor pen, a perfect vorpal and dps path with trample the fallen and other abilities that boost dmg yet I cant hit as hard as some gf with less gs and not even perfect enchants.
Some people seem to be hitting way harder than they should.
Is receiving 41k crit from 1 charge of Gripphon's Wrath something working as intended?
One this is kc affecting you I am guessing(seems to ignore deflect)(110% damage boost). Two itf is involved(35% damage boost). Three this is an unrealistic encounter rotation for actual pvp. Also was this gf using pets and a stone?
Finally the feat to increase kc bonus damage boosts GW follow up hits by 20% and with crushing pin another 10%.
One this is kc affecting you I am guessing(seems to ignore deflect)(110% damage boost). Two itf is involved(35% damage boost). Three this is an unrealistic encounter rotation for actual pvp. Also was this gf using pets and a stone?
Finally the feat to increase kc bonus damage boosts GW follow up hits by 20% and with crushing pin another 10%.
Not to mention indomitable strength is another 20%, depending on his abilities, you could have been debuffed with tide of iron for 10%, marked for his 20% dr mitigation as well, if his AP was high enough your DR could have been negative. But I think max I can crit with that is like 15-16k ITF could maybe get me in the 20's, idk - I would have to see it to believe it honestly you sound like you are just trolling.
Not to mention indomitable strength is another 20%, depending on his abilities, you could have been debuffed with tide of iron for 10%, marked for his 20% dr mitigation as well, if his AP was high enough your DR could have been negative. But I think max I can crit with that is like 15-16k ITF could maybe get me in the 20's, idk - I would have to see it to believe it honestly you sound like you are just trolling.
^^^^
This.The official GF changes thread is becoming full of masqueraded GWFs that post "covered up" nerf demands.
Knight's Chalenge is too powerfull,nerf griffon(although it did not get any damage boot trololol) terrifying impact should not prone toons in CC mode(aka Unstop ) etc....
Unfortunatelly the mods seem reluctant to remove these nerf demands by GWF/CW trolls.
Is receiving 41k crit from 1 charge of Gripphon's Wrath something working as intended?
Some evidence? I never made it more than 13k crit from 1 charge on simple mob when hes fully debuffed, i gues sky limit is somwhere around 18k, and thats much lower in IWD pvp and even lower in domination pvp. 41k is just impossible without combat advantage + KC.. Pls put some evidence, Id hate to see GW nerfed like into the fray got nerfed for no reason, just bcuz few ppl asumed it will be OP.
Some evidence? I never made it more than 13k crit from 1 charge on simple mob when hes fully debuffed, i gues sky limit is somwhere around 18k, and thats much lower in IWD pvp and even lower in domination pvp. 41k is just impossible without combat advantage + KC...
GF has a reaaally high high high ratio between encounters and his weapon. So with damage buffes and a p.vorp/g.plague they can do it.
Please take a look into Anvil potentially being bugged as this damage is far and beyond what it should be.
From the looks of the Combat Log his health must have been pretty low. Anvil of Doom does more damage the less health the person has.
If you guys are standing around in openworld with full pots beating on someone until they are 5% health, then you pop KC and Hit AoD you will get numbers like this. It doesn't matter if it hits for 200k, if he only had about 2k health, so who cares? (even if you did not use KC its still not a problem). As others have said, these are not new numbers, they are right in line with what they have always been (slightly buffed).
We are so excited, that we wont be absolutelly useless in pve, cause of dmg boost for party or 15% deflect instead of 3 (just an example)
My question is: Is it possible, changes of our class will make us able to kill HR, CW or TR same gear? Completelly lack of control resists, speed of turtle, 80% of dmg resisted (why not 100% I can't understand). All classes can do anything if they start to loose fight, we have to stay. Why are we so vulnerable?
It does not work like this. Its not "This class beats this class" It is, this guy has this gear, I have this gear, He is built this way, I am built like this, these are the buffs/pots/companions we were using. He is this experienced/skilled I am this experienced/skilled, I had this much lag, he had that much lag.
WAYYYYY too many variables my friend.
P.S.
If you are getting KC'd and dieing, try this: Hit them when they put it on you.... you get the damage buff too! You will 1 shot them. KC is a terrible PvP skill, has always been. If you use it in any kind of competitive Domination you will get some great kills and epic numbers with it. You will also get your face smashed A LOT more than you would have had you left it off your bar.
The buff to GWrath was pretty good, it will probably be in everyone's rotations... pretty high burst damage. Though I think GF was overbuffed, we will only know when M4 goes live.
Got today off so was doing more testing on preview, as clunky as Crushing Surge its damage output is impressive! In this video i use Flourish, WMS , and CS...''
and their Marks last 20 seconds, while us still have our Marks removed if we take unblocked damage...
So basically they are giving our TAB ABILITY as a secondary effect for their IBS, Daring Shout and Threating Rush, and in top of that, to multiple targets...
FEEDBACK:
My suggestion is:
1- Make our Marks last 20 seconds and make us mark with Lunging Strike.
and
2. Improve our Tab Ability, like for example, marking multiple Targets around the enemy we mark with TAB.
GWFs can Tank and they should, but they are also a Striker Class, while we are the real Tank Class (supposedly), and this should be our job, not theirs, and second, we are talking about our TAB ABILITY, TR have Stealth, HR have an increase of 3 more encounters, GWF have Unsto, etc... We have a Mark which is given to GWF in 3 powers!!!, so give us something unique please, and not something that will be recicled (and made better) for another class, PLEASE!.
i agree they have essentially given our tab ability to GWF. thus GWF have in retrospect have 2 tab abilities unstoppable and the 20% mark that can mark 3 targets and never drop on dmg as we only get one
our tab ability is the worst in the game, it was great when we could only do it but since GWF get our tab ability on just at wills alone it kind of makes our tab ability useless im not sure of the reasoning behind this but i get that gwf can and should have the option to tank.
but by giving them perma mark on at wills that devalues our tab ability so much that it's becoming a worthless tab something needs to be done and our tab should have a benefit more than a ranged mark because GWF can do 1 threatening rush an perma mark 3 opponents where as we can only mark 1 we dont get unstoppable either this is horse pooo
as it stands were the only class with a worthless tab ability since GWF can now mark better than any "tank" can.
Tab Mark: When using this on an opponent with Fey thistle you will take damage and proc the dread t4 boon to cause more damage on top was able to lower my hp by tabbing an hr with 40% deflect with the fey thistle boon.
On another note the gwf should not be getting 20% mitigation since theirs lasts for a full 20 secs they also gain more Combat Advantage damage. If this stays the same our tab is being copied just like the iron vanguard was in the first place please can you give consideration that the gwf will be attaining full damage that much easier if they have 20% mitigation not to mention the ca damage. I would suggest lowering it to 10% as they have a permanent mark for 20 secs while gfs requires a separate animation to apply said mark and it does not last as long.
The short version, gwf mark only gives 10% mitigation.
Yes this is the Guardian fighter feedback thread but this is a problem when our original tab ability is being given to another class who got nerfed which then gets to much of a buff by giving them the same mark. Mod 2 all over again with our tab but even worse.
exactlly
crush wanted to seperate all this but as it stands GWF has 2 tab abilities 1 is unstoppable and now they have given them our tab ability which they can mark players/mobs easier just by rush alone and that gives them a perm mark on 3 as we only get 1. thats clearly unbalanced and makes our tab skill the worst in the game and not only that but GWF's essentially get 2 tab abilities we either need a new tab or they need to not give GWF so much versatility compared to the actual "tank" class this is just wrong.
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chaoscourtesanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2014
Of course I cant read all of these posts.. but from the last couple of pages (I display 40 posts per page,) it looks to me like: The GF has been greatly improved in many ways and is taking a hit in a few. But still, it looks like my two GF's will again be made irrelevant by my 3 GWFs which can each easily do as much (maybe more) threat, pulling, and tanking as a properly made GF, and then do some actual DPS to top it off. Just based on what I'm reading here. I'd so love to be reading it wrong.
Rhyon Cawdorian GWF | Opa Loka TR | Cormac Argentus III DC | Annika Thornblade GF | Aerys Skydark HR | Bartin Findlor TR | Aellia Baalthrall CW | Lucan Hawkmoon CW | Opa Brahk GWF | Korzbyrk DC | Den Kruk GWF | Jherek Skarsin CW |
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
your correct chaos considering that while we can onlt mark with our tab once for perm mark our counterparts get a perm mark by just spamming 3 at wills making our tab ability useless in the long run but hey i actually thought with the -20% DR announced a few weeks back it might improve us but nope GWF also get that and then some
not to mention a feat that actually increases dmg on marked targets by 10% where as ours lowers the dmg taken by allies and thats it we still take full dmg
We had a GF with into the fray on, 3v1'ing a gwf to test his deflect... With into the fray + knight's challenge + 3 tide of irons, + GPF + 15% trample + 10 % control + 15% temp hp + 25% capstone + 15% combat superiority (i may be missing some) He hit the GWF for 106k....
Damage taken... 7,000....... - Officially a broken game when the GWF's figure out they aren't terrible anymore and roll mod 2 sents....
What did the GWF to mitigate the 95.4% of the damage with all those debuffs?, are you sure about those numbers?, if it's real then I guess it's time to leave this game, not gonna be here to see our role (Tank) in a STRIKER CLASS, with our TAB given to them (IBS, Threating Rush and Daring Shout AND IMPROVED BTW) and our Paragon Path given to them (which make them even better than us, while that paragon path was originally ours).
What did the GWF to mitigate the 95.4% of the damage with all those debuffs?, are you sure about those numbers?, if it's real then I guess it's time to leave this game, not gonna be here to see our role (Tank) in a STRIKER CLASS, with our TAB given to them (IBS, Threating Rush and Daring Shout AND IMPROVED BTW) and our Paragon Path given to them (which make them even better than us, while that paragon path was originally ours).
Here is the kicker. He mitigated THAT much damage w/out unstoppable.
What did the GWF to mitigate the 95.4% of the damage with all those debuffs?, are you sure about those numbers?, if it's real then I guess it's time to leave this game, not gonna be here to see our role (Tank) in a STRIKER CLASS, with our TAB given to them (IBS, Threating Rush and Daring Shout AND IMPROVED BTW) and our Paragon Path given to them (which make them even better than us, while that paragon path was originally ours).
my feedback is that gwf should not get our mark, we should both get marks or something but why do they basically have a better version of our tab ? There tab gives them so much more than us anyway, gaining amazing DR then temp hitpoints and cc immune and we just get a little more dmg to compare with there natural dps anyway, and now they get the mark too ? I don't get it.
That is because it doesn't make any sense, and there is no testing that goes into it at all. The new GWF's are going to be 2-3x as tanky if they use their sprint right, max their deflect, and hit a little less harder than mod 3... So basically they take everything away, then give it right back? I know the GF's will still be good in pvp. But the way it's set up now, it could be a total **** show.
Its interesting. GFs get the most buffs any class has ever got in this game (every party will take at least one because of ITF alone) and still its a crybaby fest about every other class.
You GFs guys have real issues…
Maybe to much beatings from other classes in the past…
This unnecessary, and it adds nothing to our discussion. The buffs are great however we still have some buggy abilities, really slow animations, and some QOL issues that we would like possibly looked into because we know we will not be adjusted again for centuries!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
That's not necessarily a bad thing for a class to be that strong 1v1 (HRs are in mod3), but GFs will probably also be the best class to have in group fights.
Instead of trolling teams stacked with GWFs we're probably going to see trolling teams stacked with GFs.
A hr equally geared can beat a gf in 1v1, they are still stronger if played well and a cw can now beat a gf in a 1v1 if they learn how to keep there distance.
Also a TR can too so i would not say a gf can beat anyone in a 1v1 at all, just because we got buffs don't mean we are the best.
I have seen great gf players lose to 14k hr and i have seen wizards kill gf easy so it really does just depend on the players skill.
Comments
GF ~ Soloing ability will be far better with more DPS output, self buffing, combat advantage to himself automatically, higher damage in SM tree, and 2% higher hp pool.
There will still be the Elites that want more DPS, but so far the GGF will bring great utility, some great buffs, maintain awesome amounts of threat, be able to round up 20 adds himself, and have the potential to do some decent to great DPS!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
- Trample is good, but yeah, IV is just easier to use man, it is smoother, threat rush just sets up so many things. Swordmaster you sorta feel like you are running too much whereas IV has Threat Rush and Lunging. Idk. I actually thought swordmaster was doing more lol, but I couldn't get a lot of my setups going.
- The boost to flourish is freaking awesome, but pretty dang hard to land even after a bull charge. I almost wish bull charge was just a prone and not a knock back with frontline being a wasted encounter now. It'd make setting up the other moves a lot easier, and for some players "achievable" (it is easier for us who have played a lot)
I had it happen once, but by habit I just always give it the full animation time because having it bug out can be so annoying. Especially in PVE (where I use it 99% of the time)
So yeah I agree that the bug is still around
Well I think some gf have a glitch or something, on preview I have 4k power with 2.4k armor pen, a perfect vorpal and dps path with trample the fallen and other abilities that boost dmg yet I cant hit as hard as some gf with less gs and not even perfect enchants.
Some people seem to be hitting way harder than they should.
Edit: and this is without KC.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One this is kc affecting you I am guessing(seems to ignore deflect)(110% damage boost). Two itf is involved(35% damage boost). Three this is an unrealistic encounter rotation for actual pvp. Also was this gf using pets and a stone?
Finally the feat to increase kc bonus damage boosts GW follow up hits by 20% and with crushing pin another 10%.
Not to mention indomitable strength is another 20%, depending on his abilities, you could have been debuffed with tide of iron for 10%, marked for his 20% dr mitigation as well, if his AP was high enough your DR could have been negative. But I think max I can crit with that is like 15-16k ITF could maybe get me in the 20's, idk - I would have to see it to believe it honestly you sound like you are just trolling.
^^^^
This.The official GF changes thread is becoming full of masqueraded GWFs that post "covered up" nerf demands.
Knight's Chalenge is too powerfull,nerf griffon(although it did not get any damage boot trololol) terrifying impact should not prone toons in CC mode(aka Unstop
Unfortunatelly the mods seem reluctant to remove these nerf demands by GWF/CW trolls.
Yes! Especially if hes blocking during it.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
No it shouldnt
Why shouldn't they?
Some evidence? I never made it more than 13k crit from 1 charge on simple mob when hes fully debuffed, i gues sky limit is somwhere around 18k, and thats much lower in IWD pvp and even lower in domination pvp. 41k is just impossible without combat advantage + KC.. Pls put some evidence, Id hate to see GW nerfed like into the fray got nerfed for no reason, just bcuz few ppl asumed it will be OP.
GF has a reaaally high high high ratio between encounters and his weapon. So with damage buffes and a p.vorp/g.plague they can do it.
From the looks of the Combat Log his health must have been pretty low. Anvil of Doom does more damage the less health the person has.
If you guys are standing around in openworld with full pots beating on someone until they are 5% health, then you pop KC and Hit AoD you will get numbers like this. It doesn't matter if it hits for 200k, if he only had about 2k health, so who cares? (even if you did not use KC its still not a problem). As others have said, these are not new numbers, they are right in line with what they have always been (slightly buffed).
You did not get hit for 41k non KC'd GW. Check your Combat Log, and next time and take a SS.
It does not work like this. Its not "This class beats this class" It is, this guy has this gear, I have this gear, He is built this way, I am built like this, these are the buffs/pots/companions we were using. He is this experienced/skilled I am this experienced/skilled, I had this much lag, he had that much lag.
WAYYYYY too many variables my friend.
P.S.
If you are getting KC'd and dieing, try this: Hit them when they put it on you.... you get the damage buff too! You will 1 shot them. KC is a terrible PvP skill, has always been. If you use it in any kind of competitive Domination you will get some great kills and epic numbers with it. You will also get your face smashed A LOT more than you would have had you left it off your bar.
You're Welcome.
Hail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78F22RcQ3_4&feature=youtu.be
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I placed a video in the official thread of me doing normal and buffed GW and hit no where near the claims!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Not in PvP, which is where he is claiming it happened.
Under some absurd combination of group buffs, companion synergies, and debuffs MAYBE. But I really doubt it.
i agree they have essentially given our tab ability to GWF. thus GWF have in retrospect have 2 tab abilities unstoppable and the 20% mark that can mark 3 targets and never drop on dmg as we only get one
our tab ability is the worst in the game, it was great when we could only do it but since GWF get our tab ability on just at wills alone it kind of makes our tab ability useless im not sure of the reasoning behind this but i get that gwf can and should have the option to tank.
but by giving them perma mark on at wills that devalues our tab ability so much that it's becoming a worthless tab something needs to be done and our tab should have a benefit more than a ranged mark because GWF can do 1 threatening rush an perma mark 3 opponents where as we can only mark 1 we dont get unstoppable either this is horse pooo
as it stands were the only class with a worthless tab ability since GWF can now mark better than any "tank" can.
exactlly
crush wanted to seperate all this but as it stands GWF has 2 tab abilities 1 is unstoppable and now they have given them our tab ability which they can mark players/mobs easier just by rush alone and that gives them a perm mark on 3 as we only get 1. thats clearly unbalanced and makes our tab skill the worst in the game and not only that but GWF's essentially get 2 tab abilities we either need a new tab or they need to not give GWF so much versatility compared to the actual "tank" class this is just wrong.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
not to mention a feat that actually increases dmg on marked targets by 10% where as ours lowers the dmg taken by allies and thats it we still take full dmg
What did the GWF to mitigate the 95.4% of the damage with all those debuffs?, are you sure about those numbers?, if it's real then I guess it's time to leave this game, not gonna be here to see our role (Tank) in a STRIKER CLASS, with our TAB given to them (IBS, Threating Rush and Daring Shout AND IMPROVED BTW) and our Paragon Path given to them (which make them even better than us, while that paragon path was originally ours).
Here is the kicker. He mitigated THAT much damage w/out unstoppable.
Exactly, you are still forced to either be 100% stealth, or stealth 85-90% of the time and go into ITC for a few flurries.
And he wasn't sprinting.
That is because it doesn't make any sense, and there is no testing that goes into it at all. The new GWF's are going to be 2-3x as tanky if they use their sprint right, max their deflect, and hit a little less harder than mod 3... So basically they take everything away, then give it right back? I know the GF's will still be good in pvp. But the way it's set up now, it could be a total **** show.
This unnecessary, and it adds nothing to our discussion. The buffs are great however we still have some buggy abilities, really slow animations, and some QOL issues that we would like possibly looked into because we know we will not be adjusted again for centuries!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
A hr equally geared can beat a gf in 1v1, they are still stronger if played well and a cw can now beat a gf in a 1v1 if they learn how to keep there distance.
Also a TR can too so i would not say a gf can beat anyone in a 1v1 at all, just because we got buffs don't mean we are the best.
I have seen great gf players lose to 14k hr and i have seen wizards kill gf easy so it really does just depend on the players skill.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]