I would imagine cryptic is going to make the marks the same, it just ends up easier for everyone. The improved mark class ability will probably get adjusted to be on par with the gwf version.
I do like the suggestion to make our tab ability something like Into the fray.
Did anyone test how the interaction is now between a GWF tank and a GF tank? And how much affected the GF is now PvP-wise by the improved Mark of the GWFs? I am unable this week to go to Preview but I am a bit concerned about this. Especially because they stated that a GWF typically should do more damage and now again is able to lower the Defence a good deal (and the Defence value is the only reliable defensive means for the GF).
God, I ran the epic skirmish on preview earlier. That was just bad. I know that I shouldn't expect random people to be able to get out of the way of red stuff, but I did not fully prepare myself for the full on suicide pact that befell me. Running KV in this thing is just madness with PUGs, or else I am just too **** squishy for this. I had my shield up and everything, but it sure as hell didn't help one bit. I do think that at least 2 of my team decided to test out their theory of who can kill the GF the most by standing in stuff that newbs know better. I am really loathe to suggest that we need more defense, but this 80% DR while blocking is just not cutting the mustard for this content. These AEs are just BAD BAD BAD for my health. Someone remind me why I decided it was a good idea?
if you were pugging most likely the others didnt have stone and were using other companions the problem with KV is it also applies to players companions which in turn means they take huge amounts of damage because they have no AI to avoid the red.
it would also help if you posted your DR/Deflect and if you are using stam artifact ect.
1) KV SHOULD be capped at 4 players you are protecting. (simulates a group of 5 people so 4+1)
2) As I mentioned before (long time ago) instead of KV working how it does now, GFs should get a DR boost for every party member he is protecting with KV (again up to 4 players). So 5% DR boost to the GF for each player = 20% more DR protecting a full party. GFs can get easily up to 50-55% DR so this would almost max them out with 70-75% DR.
- The beauty behind this as well, is this actually makes Knights Valor PLUS Into the Fray a huge synergistic combination. So a GF speccing into HUGE group support can add HUGE value.
3) Yes the unfortunate downside of KV is that it relies on teammates to not be stupid. If an entire group stands in red and gets hit for 20k*4 = 80k... You will be taking quite a bit of damage from that, and that is where you need a healer...
I'm not sure what you want to say, but it simple make no sense. If not all sources of KV get at the same time damage, it would just be a jump 'who get hurt' event for KV... Else fixing every time the KV to a specific player with using it, would simple result in refreshing it.
Out of that: Get rid with this FUFU +%DR to KV! If one isn't build to tank, THEN HE MUST DIE WHILE USING IT! How can you say, that a conqueror with next to 0 extra def should get so a high DR boost?! That's ridiculous!
Feedback: Knight Valor GET RID OF THE EXTRA +%DR! IF ONE ISN'T BUILD FOR IT IT SHOULDN'T GET BOOSTED TO BE GODLIKE WITH IT!
I'm not sure what you want to say, but it simple make no sense. If not all sources of KV get at the same time damage, it would just be a jump 'who get hurt' event for KV... Else fixing every time the KV to a specific player with using it, would simple result in refreshing it.
Out of that: Get rid with this FUFU +%DR to KV! If one isn't build to tank, THEN HE MUST DIE WHILE USING IT! How can you say, that a conqueror with next to 0 extra def should get so a high DR boost?! That's ridiculous!
Feedback: Knight Valor GET RID OF THE EXTRA +%DR! IF ONE ISN'T BUILD FOR IT IT SHOULDN'T GET BOOSTED TO BE GODLIKE WITH IT!
The only problem with this logic is this. With our current 80% DR, ANY major damage from KV is going to kill us no matter what. Without some benefit of extra DR while running KV it really is a suicide pact with NO BENEFIT. The reason I used to run KV back in the day was the extra AP it got you when triggering it. It used to be great for that, and obviously the agro and all that was great. However, back then agro was just broken, and it didn't really make much difference in the agro department. The MAJOR problem back then besides the suicide pact that it usually brought on was the fact that 90% of the time it would bug within 2 uses tops, and then required a log-off to fix. I stopped using it back then, and unless there is a feat in the protector tree that benefits from it, I just don't know if I will be running it 90% of the time now.
- Deflection percentage from dexterity is increased to 1% per point, up from .5%
- Villain's Menace: Villain's Menace now activates 20% faster and increases your damage resistance while active by 20%.
- Protector Tree: Shieldmaster: Shieldmaster switches place with Balanced Shield Fighter and gets a buff: Reduce Guard loss from defending by 2/4/6/8/10% and increase your deflection chance by 2/4/6/8/10%.
- Protector Tree: Balanced Shield Fighter: Due to moving a step down the tree it gets scaled back: Your Shield Slam and Stab at-wills deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage, down from 3/6/9/12/15%.
- Protector Tree: Brawling Warrior: REWORK: You take 4/8/12/16/20% less damage when you intercept damage from Knight's Valor. Enforced Threat now deals 1/2/3/4/5% more damage, down from 2/4/6/8/10%.
- Tactician Tree: Terrifying Menace: REWORK: Enforced Threat now stuns your enemies for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second(s).
Villain's Menace is really lacking when compared to a GWF's Unstoppable and they are essentially the same thing. Its activation time can be problematic, especially if you have aggro. As for the Protector feats, I feel the deep end of the tree needs to get beefed up. I have also tested this myself; you cannot get to tiers 3 & 4 and select the capstone while investing significantly in any other tree, so Conquerors will not be able to get the Protector's tankiness. I also proposed reducing some of the Protector's damage output at the expense of defensive buffs.
As for the change to Terrifying Menace; as a Tactician I think it is more fitting that the GF be able to ''control'' a mob and not just a a single target, so a stun on Enforced Threat would be nice. And as a Tier 4 feat, no other path can get to it, only a heavily invested Tactician. It will synergise fantastically with the damage debuff from Daunting Challenge, so the Tactician can stun a mob and open them up to extra damage. Befitting of a Tactician.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Villain's Menace is really lacking when compared to a GWF's Unstoppable and they are essentially the same thing. Its activation time can be problematic, especially if you have aggro. As for the Protector feats, I feel the deep end of the tree needs to get beefed up. I have also tested this myself; you cannot get to tiers 3 & 4 and select the capstone while investing significantly in any other tree, so Conquerors will not be able to get the Protector's tankiness. I also proposed reducing some of the Protector's damage output at the expense of defensive buffs.
I have been saying this for months!!! Fighters Recovery and Villians Menace should be merged together and have the extra damage removed... Giving the GF a CC free healing! Right now I have to risk dieing in Menace or being throw all around in Fighters Recovery as I need to do damage to get healing? Should be damage taken converted to healing!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Villians is just fine but maybe adding a bit of bonus cc resistance for fighters recovery would be a nice addition. Villians is just fine with about 1200 lifesteal(with endless consumption) I mean its not crazy health back but that is what fighters recovery is for.
My GWF was sentinel spec with 45% DR, 30% deflect.
The guy was a GF 59k HP, 18k GS. He could hit 31k on the tank GF he was testing against prior to me.
Vorpal enchant, just asked to hit him 3 times with at-wills to buff damage.
My GWF was sentinel spec with 45% DR, 30% deflect.
The guy was a GF 59k HP, 18k GS. He could hit 31k on the tank GF he was testing against prior to me.
Vorpal enchant, just asked to hit him 3 times with at-wills to buff damage.
Still, 52k Anvil of Doom. On sentinel tank.
If thats legit hes hitting 60,000 damage to high! 80,589 ~ 52,328 damage is 35% DR? 80,589 damage with 45% DR should be 44,323. strange, somethings bugged way out!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
If thats legit hes hitting 60,000 damage to high! 80,589 ~ 52,328 damage is 35% DR? 80,589 damage with 45% DR should be 44,323. strange, somethings bugged way out!
did u forgot pague fire and also armor penetration , from this i can see u dont understand anything.
this is really outrageous. and the takedown was a problem. one 15k ibs. 13% "bugged damage"... sentinel have bleed, my god. sentinel have bleed is a problem...
tank is tank, dps is dps. gwf is a ****** clown, this thread is a joke and this game a circus.
and the only answer he gave about projection until now was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> "gf is a active tank , gwf reactive". this guy believe in the lies in forum and your own craps. you show pics, tries to bring solutions and the who the dev will believe? the jerk who says roar has 5 sec cooldown .
******** this game. *********************
Its not live guy? Relax its all preview stuff it will be fixed geeesh
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
My GWF was sentinel spec with 45% DR, 30% deflect.
The guy was a GF 59k HP, 18k GS. He could hit 31k on the tank GF he was testing against prior to me.
Vorpal enchant, just asked to hit him 3 times with at-wills to buff damage.
Still, 52k Anvil of Doom. On sentinel tank.
BTW, this is only possible due to knights challenge. This looks like he "KC" you then GWx3 then Anvil you. KC provides DOUBLE damage. I have posted on this MANY MANY MANY times, always met with flame, that Knights Challenge needs to be re-worked as its pure cheese.
Anvil is alot like "Shocking Execute" in it providing a double damage bonus below 40%. So combined with KC thats a 300% increase. Then add Mark = 20%, Feated KC = 10% more, and Weapon Master Strike...
When he does that to you, you have double damage to the GF as well, and can unstoppable out of GW stun too btw. But overall Knights Cheese (Challenge) does need a tone down.
GO support my idea on the GF thread about this.
Here is my quote about it.
This is because the extra stat GFs get on Con is AP gain (unlike GWFs who get ARP).
This is also due to the fact that MOST GFs today are rocking the DC artifact and +AP gain gear/boons as well because SM feature is a 5 sec immunity after daily - so players are trying to play around that one feature.
I agree with some of the damage GFs have though, Which is why I posted about Knights Challenge getting a re-work, but it was met with massive amounts of flame.
Ill re-post my suggestion however dunno if it will be seen or not:
Knights Challenge:
Locks a foe in 1v1 combat... You deal +25% more damage to this foe, while dealing 25% less to anyone else. He deals normal damage to you, but 25% less to everyone else.
BASE: 15% more / 15% less
Rank 1:+5% more / 5% less
Rank 2: +5more / 5% less - for a total of 25%
Feated for 10% more dmg this would mean +35% dmg (for just yourself).
Remove the "downtime" and allow this to be like KV- perma until cancelled then given a CD.
This still gives it alot of usefulness, its a mix between:
Knights Valor - splits damage with party (full defensive)
Into the Fray - gives entire party damage boost (full offensive)
*NEW* Knights Challenge - some defensive (that target deals less dmg) but gives some offensive (only to you).
This offers unique play style options, and also POTENTIALLY allows for beefing up some boss damage with these utility abilities, making the tank that much more useful (consider KC+Prot Capstone) = a huge dmg reduction for his team!
This PLUS its pretty clear that this is a Knights Challenge GWx3 + Anvil.
The GW HITS alone did over 24k damage. If I had to guess it wasnt a "one and done" fight, but had some previous stuff going down.
But that anvil would finish off any player with <40% HP.
The big issue (again) with all of this is Knights Challenge. Coming from a GF player and GWF player I know how much I have loved this in the past, and it wasnt OP and was needed because we were so UN-tanky and did such little damage, it was kinda that one crutch we had...
But now that we have been fixed, this crutch needs to be re-worked so that it does what its "intention" is and that intention is NOT to be "UBER LEET PVP DEEPS". Giving this more utility and less damage (see my suggestion) brings this inline with other objectives IMO and accomplishes what "Knight's Challenge" actually is supposed to do.
I was present for thew testing during which that occured. Chief was doing this stuff in a vacuum; players were allowing him to beat on them for the purposes of DPS tests. He even said outright later on there's no way he'd get that off in a real pvp scenario. As soon as another player sees knight's challenge go up, they pump the control powers or get out of dodge.
As a matter of fact, I was one of his test subjects. The guy who posted the original screenshot is being misleading. Perhaps not intentionally, but all the same.
Hahaha! Look at all these posts defending a 80k+ hit (mitgated 50k+).
The excuses so far:
- had outmaxed char
- has spend money on it
- has to slot some rotation to have that dmg (and? You think its skill hitting that hard?)
- GF can ht even harder (oh well…)
- who knows what debuffs he had on him (as Pando stated, just 1vs1)
- that GF is 100% offense build (but has way over 50k hp… yeah)
Its funny to see GFs panic about this situation: "PLSS let us be OP for soke weeks PLSS. Wanna have eazy mode PLZ"
I will not stop posting these numbers until Gentle sees them. Let him decide if a defender class should deal 80k dmg in pvp with one hit (or 10-20k with a 3 charge encounter). So why do u guys panic? :-D
Maybe its reasonable, that a Defender class hits another tanky class for over 50k dmg. Yeah…
Interesting if a tad biased opinion of a class you do not play.....GWF's complaining about this situation (which you have failed to provide enough clear information for anyone to make an informed judgment btw..sorry snippets of the fight won't do) and the GF in question stated the the proverbeal stars would have to line up just right to repeat that situation again in a one v one setup which tbh outside of IWD open pvp is nearly impossible. In addition, rarely does anyone in open pvp find a 1 v 1 encounter and the encounters picked limit both the GF capability at closing the gap of distance and his spec reduced the capability of damage taken so I am at a loss at a an extremely rare and highly unlikely set-up for real pvp.
Leaving out the out of control survivability of all other classes (regen on HR/Perma stealth TR/shield & control capability of CW/GWF jack of all trades survivability when discussing this is weaksauce at best.
in the 1st place why do you compare class with dodge to GWF thats forced to take all dmg to face anyway?
YOU DONT HAVE TO STAND THERE AND TAKE ALL DAMAGE TO THE FACE
- That is mod 3 man! This is mod 4!!!!!! GWF's will have to learn how to play, you can't just aimlessly hold your mouse button down and hit your face on the 3 encounters.... You should have died doing this in mod 3 as well! You have a TON of sprint, granted you don't go perma sprint, you are cc immune, you see KC take off the other way, bait the lunging, and sprint through the Griffon's Wrath, he gets close, get ready to sprint because Bull is coming, or in this case Griffon's Wrath, oh what's this? You have an unstoppable?????? Use it, constant dps on the GF get as much damage through the shield as you can, sprint behind him, and hit takedown, it is a short stun, but immediately trigger flourish, or frontline, then wammmoooo IBS. Wash rinse repeat, and you have a good fight.
Can the GWF dodge with his sprint and time his unstoppables and get behind the GF while maintaining the DPS? Or can the GF catch him out of sprint or unstoppable and take him down?
- Absolutely crazy when a fight is two ways instead of you just mashing buttons. You do realize GF's can't just hold their shield up? Feated, and geared (he will need some encounters to kill you) means like 10-12 seconds of block (if he is shield bashing, tide of iron this will be longer), no one will use profound this mod as BI set is freaking amazing compared. so that is 30% less block, if they are swordmaster steel defense will go in, and probably combat sup or guarded assault, so shield talent is probably out (15% less block), that means roughly 8 seconds of pure block, once the shield is down it takes .5 seconds to pull it back up, if you realized that you'd time your move the second he drops his shield to drop out of sprint and hit an encounter.
See what I did there? That is called thinking. I know GWF's aren't used to the idea of it and I apologize if I used any big words like "realize" "think" "strategy" - GWF's are in a world of hurt because the only GF's who kept playing had to learn every single in and out of your class to counter it just long enough for someone else on our team to kill you. While the GWF's just did the same thing to everyone.
You literally created the monster you are now complaining about. Deal with it. Get better. And stop QQ'ing with no evidence, no experience, and no skill.
Since someone took the pic i posted...i'll clarify a bit.
First, guys, calm down. No need to heat up so much on a game.
Second: we were not 1v1ing. I never wrote that. We were testing stuff and he was testing his rotation to see the max DPS he could deal. First, he tested on a tank specced GF and pretty much managed to 31k with i'd say same rotation, same enchant. Then i asked him to do the same against me for comparison. For details you can ask him, since i'm not a GF.
The main reason i posted the pic is to bring on 1 argument: that is the max damage a GF can reach. Would be nice to see what a equally geared GWF can reach as max damage just for comparison.
The guy of the pics got 59k+ HP, around 3k ArP, 3k power, don't remember the other stats. I got 45%+ DR and 30% deflection, sentinel spec.
Also: i know, since that was the mantra in module 1, that NW players love to repeat how skill-less GWFs are. Nobody is going to cry here, the class already went through being useless in module 1, just like GFs were powerful in module 1 and PvP killing machines, just prone-chaining people to death. But it has nothing to do with the 2 things that must be looked at right now: tankyness and DPS. From my point of view, GWF should be able to hit for more than GFs, and tank less. Right now, they seem to tank less and GFs new block and changes seem to allow them to tank more than sentinels. Just want to test out if there's difference in damage, and how much.
Just a note: KC as it's been said, allows the GF to hit for more, but the GWF also. Right. But, there's a difference in practice, and it is that the GF can use shield block and pretty much point a cannon to the GWF. The GWF must use sprint to pass through the guard and hit. So, why GF vs GF it's a 50%-50%, KC is obviously more powerful for a GF against a GWF. New sprint mitigates damage by 30% more, does not negate it. So the GWF is obviously more vulnerable in a 1v1 fight. And sprint is not that reliable as a defensive move. That's why i say it must be looked into and tested.
No need to heat up btw guys. Have a calm discussion.
With the CW shield absorbing 50% of the damage, STILL getting hit for almost a 9k, for an ability that stuns and has 3 charges, which can easily 1 hit ANY OTHER CLASS 9k x 3k = 27k Not everyone can afford to get their hitpoints over 30k to avoid getting completely 1 hit by a GF lol. Obviously they needed a buff from mod3 but this is a bit overkill
again with small snipets of mis/dis information those are not even full combat logs, and this is the last reply im going to do about this post a video if you feel this needs to be toned down going by to lines of a combat log does nothing but riles everyone up and there is not enough info to go by to actually give accurate feedback to the devs.
also please read the above post ambisinisterr
thank you for your time but the community and the devs are going to need more concrete proof than hersey.
again with small snipets of mis/dis information those are not even full combat logs, and this is the last reply im going to do about this post a video if you feel this needs to be toned down going by to lines of a combat log does nothing but riles everyone up and there is not enough info to go by to actually give accurate feedback to the devs.
also please read the above post ambisinisterr
thank you for your time but the community and the devs are going to need more concrete proof than hersey.
Your post should be deleted because you aren't staying on topic. I'm giving feedback on just a small example of what the GF can do in terms of damage now, using only one encounter ability to increase their damage substantially. The damage bonus from into the fray should only affect allies and shouldn't give such a huge damage boost, it's just too at 50% because GF can also use KC to stack even more damage with themselves, almost doubling their damage to any one target. The damage bonus' from the encounters ITC and KC shouldn't be stackable for the sake of simply being an overpowered combination. (70% damage bonus for the GF if im not mistaken)
1) The damage you linked isnt from ITF, its from Knights Challenge. Into the Fray isnt the issue, it also only gives the GF 75% of their DR. A Conq Specced GF will have around 45-50 at most DR. So ITF is only really like 33-35% Damage boost - at the loss of 1 encounter slot. Is VERY reasonable IMO.
2) Knights Challenge DOES need a change. Not a nerf, a change! It actually does MORE than double the damage to a target (and on the flip side) you also TAKE double damage. I dont support it, it DOES have drawbacks, overall its far too "situational" and "niche" to really be much of a useful power. Its honestly only good for causing tears on the forums OR just trolling people and giving the wrong impression of GFs.
Crazymike, you dont seem to have a firm grasp on GF. While I agree that KC needs to be toned down, ITF isnt the issue. That power is actually right about where it needs to be. Please dont post small snippets of "damage" since most times, they are actually not plausible in PVP. I could stack all sorts of -DR (debuffs) on people, and use Knights Cheese, ITF and Anvil of Doom someone for 100k. While in all truth, the only REAL issue with that was that Knights Cheese should be re-worked.
The tears of the HR and GWF. U mad someone might be able to beat you now? Might actually have to use movement because you cannot out-tank the TANK? Neither the GWF (Sentinel is a GWFs tank path, but it is not a true TANK nor should it be) or HR is intended to out tank a TANK, hence you have the abilities to rapidly change position via Shift and Sprint. The GF is cumbersome, so instead of ''Boo hoo, I can't killed GF with 3 hits'' use your strengths against his weaknesses and outmanoeuvre him.
How have I, as a GF, dealt with uber GWFs? I stay the hell away from them, that is how. He goes Unstoppable I get distance and wait for him to become vulnerable again. Attempt to waste his Roar and prones by using distance. Then I go in. So, don't try and facetank a geared Mod 4 GF. You are not supposed to if you are not another GF. Beat him with movement. Gain combat advantage.
As for those big hits, it is open world PVP, so the GF is augmented plus it was set-up. You allowed the GF to debuff you. If you let a GF go through a clean rotation in domination then you are a horrible player. Also, Knight's Challenge is a high risk, high reward encounter and it removes a damage or control encounter from our bar, so for the sake of trying to land a massive Anvil we lose out on another viable PVP power. Lunging Strike seems to be a consensus power so a GF that is running KC to boost Anvil has no stuns and no prones, making landing that devastating Anvil very tricky. If he swaps out Lunging for a prone/stun he loses a significant amount of his mobility as the range on LS is superior to Threatening Rush.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
and You cannot out-DPS the DPS but that seems to be broken with some classes -cough cough-. Any who the arguing is pretty pointless in this thread for the GWFs and the HRs for the GFs don't give two ****s about balance they just want to be able to be on top of everyone because they felt like they weren't before. They have a point in feeling that way however it's not right what so ever. Most of the posts in this thread are "We deserve to be on top T_T"
Basically I've seen a Guardian Fighter absorb the DOTs of a Scourage Warlock and a Hunter Ranger and spit it back out at them killing them instantly. It's gonna be a repeat of when the HRs were crying "THEN DON'T USE DOTs ON US" which is stupid
and You cannot out-DPS the DPS but that seems to be broken with some classes -cough cough-. Any who the arguing is pretty pointless in this thread for the GWFs and the HRs for the GFs don't give two ****s about balance they just want to be able to be on top of everyone because they felt like they weren't before. They have a point in feeling that way however it's not right what so ever. Most of the posts in this thread are "We deserve to be on top T_T"
Basically I've seen a Guardian Fighter absorb the DOTs of a Scourage Warlock and a Hunter Ranger and spit it back out at them killing them instantly. It's gonna be a repeat of when the HRs were crying "THEN DON'T USE DOTs ON US" which is stupid
I addressed that but I shall repeat myself. Firstly, open world PVP, so the GFs stats - almost certainly the offensive ones - were greatly exaggerated. Sure you can run into PVP with your Corrupted set and offensive items but you will be incredibly soft. Secondly, it requires set-up to hit like that. Your opponent needs to be an idiot or willing victim and you need to hamper your overall performance to get the KC buff. Slotting KC removes a prone, stun or gap closer from your rotation. The loss of a prone, stun or gap closer also then makes it that much easier to outmanoeuvre the GF. Also, KC can be negated and even used to benefit the enemy team by rotating the GF's opponent. GF has challenged the GWF? No problem, get away from him and let someone else engage him, he'll now be doing less damage to his new opponent and his challenged target should get a free, boosted hit in on the GF.
GWFs are complaining that it will be hard for them to land IBS now with no roots or prones. What makes you think the GF will lfind it any easier to land Anvil if he has sacrificed a prone or stun? The GF is trading off in other areas and risking himself by looking for the home run hit.
Less tears, more thinking. The GF has not been given an ''I win button''.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited July 2014
Ignoring for a moment the question of what the changes mean for PvP, what is the general consensus of the impact of the GF changes for PvE purposes?
First, what do people think of the GF's ability to solo stuff in PvE? I have 4 characters at level 60 on Live, and I have found it pretty annoying how much longer content like the Dread Ring dailies takes for my GF than the other classes. Now, things are different on Preview, but I want to hear what others have to say too.
Second, how will the changes affect GF's desirability in groups - GFs have not exactly been a high-demand class - easy enough to get into random PUGs (because of the way the queue system works), but not exactly the most wanted class for some content, like Vt.
Comments
I do like the suggestion to make our tab ability something like Into the fray.
if you were pugging most likely the others didnt have stone and were using other companions the problem with KV is it also applies to players companions which in turn means they take huge amounts of damage because they have no AI to avoid the red.
it would also help if you posted your DR/Deflect and if you are using stam artifact ect.
but my bet is the companions problem
I'm not sure what you want to say, but it simple make no sense. If not all sources of KV get at the same time damage, it would just be a jump 'who get hurt' event for KV... Else fixing every time the KV to a specific player with using it, would simple result in refreshing it.
Out of that: Get rid with this FUFU +%DR to KV! If one isn't build to tank, THEN HE MUST DIE WHILE USING IT! How can you say, that a conqueror with next to 0 extra def should get so a high DR boost?! That's ridiculous!
Feedback: Knight Valor
GET RID OF THE EXTRA +%DR! IF ONE ISN'T BUILD FOR IT IT SHOULDN'T GET BOOSTED TO BE GODLIKE WITH IT!
The only problem with this logic is this. With our current 80% DR, ANY major damage from KV is going to kill us no matter what. Without some benefit of extra DR while running KV it really is a suicide pact with NO BENEFIT. The reason I used to run KV back in the day was the extra AP it got you when triggering it. It used to be great for that, and obviously the agro and all that was great. However, back then agro was just broken, and it didn't really make much difference in the agro department. The MAJOR problem back then besides the suicide pact that it usually brought on was the fact that 90% of the time it would bug within 2 uses tops, and then required a log-off to fix. I stopped using it back then, and unless there is a feat in the protector tree that benefits from it, I just don't know if I will be running it 90% of the time now.
Villain's Menace is really lacking when compared to a GWF's Unstoppable and they are essentially the same thing. Its activation time can be problematic, especially if you have aggro. As for the Protector feats, I feel the deep end of the tree needs to get beefed up. I have also tested this myself; you cannot get to tiers 3 & 4 and select the capstone while investing significantly in any other tree, so Conquerors will not be able to get the Protector's tankiness. I also proposed reducing some of the Protector's damage output at the expense of defensive buffs.
As for the change to Terrifying Menace; as a Tactician I think it is more fitting that the GF be able to ''control'' a mob and not just a a single target, so a stun on Enforced Threat would be nice. And as a Tier 4 feat, no other path can get to it, only a heavily invested Tactician. It will synergise fantastically with the damage debuff from Daunting Challenge, so the Tactician can stun a mob and open them up to extra damage. Befitting of a Tactician.
I have been saying this for months!!! Fighters Recovery and Villians Menace should be merged together and have the extra damage removed... Giving the GF a CC free healing! Right now I have to risk dieing in Menace or being throw all around in Fighters Recovery as I need to do damage to get healing? Should be damage taken converted to healing!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
You must have taken a screenshot?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
My GWF was sentinel spec with 45% DR, 30% deflect.
The guy was a GF 59k HP, 18k GS. He could hit 31k on the tank GF he was testing against prior to me.
Vorpal enchant, just asked to hit him 3 times with at-wills to buff damage.
Still, 52k Anvil of Doom. On sentinel tank.
You need to post that in the GF feedback thread for GC to investigate .
If thats legit hes hitting 60,000 damage to high! 80,589 ~ 52,328 damage is 35% DR? 80,589 damage with 45% DR should be 44,323. strange, somethings bugged way out!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Its not live guy? Relax its all preview stuff it will be fixed geeesh
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
rude just plain rude, i understand fine. I just did a quick math breakdown in my head. I don't see GPF in combat log.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
BTW, this is only possible due to knights challenge. This looks like he "KC" you then GWx3 then Anvil you. KC provides DOUBLE damage. I have posted on this MANY MANY MANY times, always met with flame, that Knights Challenge needs to be re-worked as its pure cheese.
Anvil is alot like "Shocking Execute" in it providing a double damage bonus below 40%. So combined with KC thats a 300% increase. Then add Mark = 20%, Feated KC = 10% more, and Weapon Master Strike...
When he does that to you, you have double damage to the GF as well, and can unstoppable out of GW stun too btw. But overall Knights Cheese (Challenge) does need a tone down.
GO support my idea on the GF thread about this.
Here is my quote about it.
As a matter of fact, I was one of his test subjects. The guy who posted the original screenshot is being misleading. Perhaps not intentionally, but all the same.
Interesting if a tad biased opinion of a class you do not play.....GWF's complaining about this situation (which you have failed to provide enough clear information for anyone to make an informed judgment btw..sorry snippets of the fight won't do) and the GF in question stated the the proverbeal stars would have to line up just right to repeat that situation again in a one v one setup which tbh outside of IWD open pvp is nearly impossible. In addition, rarely does anyone in open pvp find a 1 v 1 encounter and the encounters picked limit both the GF capability at closing the gap of distance and his spec reduced the capability of damage taken so I am at a loss at a an extremely rare and highly unlikely set-up for real pvp.
Leaving out the out of control survivability of all other classes (regen on HR/Perma stealth TR/shield & control capability of CW/GWF jack of all trades survivability when discussing this is weaksauce at best.
YOU DONT HAVE TO STAND THERE AND TAKE ALL DAMAGE TO THE FACE
- That is mod 3 man! This is mod 4!!!!!! GWF's will have to learn how to play, you can't just aimlessly hold your mouse button down and hit your face on the 3 encounters.... You should have died doing this in mod 3 as well! You have a TON of sprint, granted you don't go perma sprint, you are cc immune, you see KC take off the other way, bait the lunging, and sprint through the Griffon's Wrath, he gets close, get ready to sprint because Bull is coming, or in this case Griffon's Wrath, oh what's this? You have an unstoppable?????? Use it, constant dps on the GF get as much damage through the shield as you can, sprint behind him, and hit takedown, it is a short stun, but immediately trigger flourish, or frontline, then wammmoooo IBS. Wash rinse repeat, and you have a good fight.
Can the GWF dodge with his sprint and time his unstoppables and get behind the GF while maintaining the DPS? Or can the GF catch him out of sprint or unstoppable and take him down?
- Absolutely crazy when a fight is two ways instead of you just mashing buttons. You do realize GF's can't just hold their shield up? Feated, and geared (he will need some encounters to kill you) means like 10-12 seconds of block (if he is shield bashing, tide of iron this will be longer), no one will use profound this mod as BI set is freaking amazing compared. so that is 30% less block, if they are swordmaster steel defense will go in, and probably combat sup or guarded assault, so shield talent is probably out (15% less block), that means roughly 8 seconds of pure block, once the shield is down it takes .5 seconds to pull it back up, if you realized that you'd time your move the second he drops his shield to drop out of sprint and hit an encounter.
See what I did there? That is called thinking. I know GWF's aren't used to the idea of it and I apologize if I used any big words like "realize" "think" "strategy" - GWF's are in a world of hurt because the only GF's who kept playing had to learn every single in and out of your class to counter it just long enough for someone else on our team to kill you. While the GWF's just did the same thing to everyone.
You literally created the monster you are now complaining about. Deal with it. Get better. And stop QQ'ing with no evidence, no experience, and no skill.
Good day!
First, guys, calm down. No need to heat up so much on a game.
Second: we were not 1v1ing. I never wrote that. We were testing stuff and he was testing his rotation to see the max DPS he could deal. First, he tested on a tank specced GF and pretty much managed to 31k with i'd say same rotation, same enchant. Then i asked him to do the same against me for comparison. For details you can ask him, since i'm not a GF.
The main reason i posted the pic is to bring on 1 argument: that is the max damage a GF can reach. Would be nice to see what a equally geared GWF can reach as max damage just for comparison.
The guy of the pics got 59k+ HP, around 3k ArP, 3k power, don't remember the other stats. I got 45%+ DR and 30% deflection, sentinel spec.
Also: i know, since that was the mantra in module 1, that NW players love to repeat how skill-less GWFs are. Nobody is going to cry here, the class already went through being useless in module 1, just like GFs were powerful in module 1 and PvP killing machines, just prone-chaining people to death. But it has nothing to do with the 2 things that must be looked at right now: tankyness and DPS. From my point of view, GWF should be able to hit for more than GFs, and tank less. Right now, they seem to tank less and GFs new block and changes seem to allow them to tank more than sentinels. Just want to test out if there's difference in damage, and how much.
Just a note: KC as it's been said, allows the GF to hit for more, but the GWF also. Right. But, there's a difference in practice, and it is that the GF can use shield block and pretty much point a cannon to the GWF. The GWF must use sprint to pass through the guard and hit. So, why GF vs GF it's a 50%-50%, KC is obviously more powerful for a GF against a GWF. New sprint mitigates damage by 30% more, does not negate it. So the GWF is obviously more vulnerable in a 1v1 fight. And sprint is not that reliable as a defensive move. That's why i say it must be looked into and tested.
No need to heat up btw guys. Have a calm discussion.
again with small snipets of mis/dis information those are not even full combat logs, and this is the last reply im going to do about this post a video if you feel this needs to be toned down going by to lines of a combat log does nothing but riles everyone up and there is not enough info to go by to actually give accurate feedback to the devs.
also please read the above post ambisinisterr
thank you for your time but the community and the devs are going to need more concrete proof than hersey.
Your post should be deleted because you aren't staying on topic. I'm giving feedback on just a small example of what the GF can do in terms of damage now, using only one encounter ability to increase their damage substantially. The damage bonus from into the fray should only affect allies and shouldn't give such a huge damage boost, it's just too at 50% because GF can also use KC to stack even more damage with themselves, almost doubling their damage to any one target. The damage bonus' from the encounters ITC and KC shouldn't be stackable for the sake of simply being an overpowered combination. (70% damage bonus for the GF if im not mistaken)
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Im going to reply to this and correct you.
1) The damage you linked isnt from ITF, its from Knights Challenge. Into the Fray isnt the issue, it also only gives the GF 75% of their DR. A Conq Specced GF will have around 45-50 at most DR. So ITF is only really like 33-35% Damage boost - at the loss of 1 encounter slot. Is VERY reasonable IMO.
2) Knights Challenge DOES need a change. Not a nerf, a change! It actually does MORE than double the damage to a target (and on the flip side) you also TAKE double damage. I dont support it, it DOES have drawbacks, overall its far too "situational" and "niche" to really be much of a useful power. Its honestly only good for causing tears on the forums OR just trolling people and giving the wrong impression of GFs.
Crazymike, you dont seem to have a firm grasp on GF. While I agree that KC needs to be toned down, ITF isnt the issue. That power is actually right about where it needs to be. Please dont post small snippets of "damage" since most times, they are actually not plausible in PVP. I could stack all sorts of -DR (debuffs) on people, and use Knights Cheese, ITF and Anvil of Doom someone for 100k. While in all truth, the only REAL issue with that was that Knights Cheese should be re-worked.
How have I, as a GF, dealt with uber GWFs? I stay the hell away from them, that is how. He goes Unstoppable I get distance and wait for him to become vulnerable again. Attempt to waste his Roar and prones by using distance. Then I go in. So, don't try and facetank a geared Mod 4 GF. You are not supposed to if you are not another GF. Beat him with movement. Gain combat advantage.
As for those big hits, it is open world PVP, so the GF is augmented plus it was set-up. You allowed the GF to debuff you. If you let a GF go through a clean rotation in domination then you are a horrible player. Also, Knight's Challenge is a high risk, high reward encounter and it removes a damage or control encounter from our bar, so for the sake of trying to land a massive Anvil we lose out on another viable PVP power. Lunging Strike seems to be a consensus power so a GF that is running KC to boost Anvil has no stuns and no prones, making landing that devastating Anvil very tricky. If he swaps out Lunging for a prone/stun he loses a significant amount of his mobility as the range on LS is superior to Threatening Rush.
and You cannot out-DPS the DPS but that seems to be broken with some classes -cough cough-. Any who the arguing is pretty pointless in this thread for the GWFs and the HRs for the GFs don't give two ****s about balance they just want to be able to be on top of everyone because they felt like they weren't before. They have a point in feeling that way however it's not right what so ever. Most of the posts in this thread are "We deserve to be on top T_T"
Basically I've seen a Guardian Fighter absorb the DOTs of a Scourage Warlock and a Hunter Ranger and spit it back out at them killing them instantly. It's gonna be a repeat of when the HRs were crying "THEN DON'T USE DOTs ON US" which is stupid
I addressed that but I shall repeat myself. Firstly, open world PVP, so the GFs stats - almost certainly the offensive ones - were greatly exaggerated. Sure you can run into PVP with your Corrupted set and offensive items but you will be incredibly soft. Secondly, it requires set-up to hit like that. Your opponent needs to be an idiot or willing victim and you need to hamper your overall performance to get the KC buff. Slotting KC removes a prone, stun or gap closer from your rotation. The loss of a prone, stun or gap closer also then makes it that much easier to outmanoeuvre the GF. Also, KC can be negated and even used to benefit the enemy team by rotating the GF's opponent. GF has challenged the GWF? No problem, get away from him and let someone else engage him, he'll now be doing less damage to his new opponent and his challenged target should get a free, boosted hit in on the GF.
GWFs are complaining that it will be hard for them to land IBS now with no roots or prones. What makes you think the GF will lfind it any easier to land Anvil if he has sacrificed a prone or stun? The GF is trading off in other areas and risking himself by looking for the home run hit.
Less tears, more thinking. The GF has not been given an ''I win button''.
First, what do people think of the GF's ability to solo stuff in PvE? I have 4 characters at level 60 on Live, and I have found it pretty annoying how much longer content like the Dread Ring dailies takes for my GF than the other classes. Now, things are different on Preview, but I want to hear what others have to say too.
Second, how will the changes affect GF's desirability in groups - GFs have not exactly been a high-demand class - easy enough to get into random PUGs (because of the way the queue system works), but not exactly the most wanted class for some content, like Vt.