So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
+1 in support of this.
None of the current Top PvP wizards want to see a meta shift to everyone wearing shield and utilising Assailing.
I know I speak for all of us when I say that we don't want to have to rely on a single feat point to make us competitive in PvP.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
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sokolnichiyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 187Arc User
edited July 2014
Yesterday I managed to test my wizard on preview in pve in Icewind dale and i can only say, that rework is made awesome.
Yep...shard of endless avalanche lost a large portion of its damage...BUT!....it is now more like controll power.
My rotation was Starting with SB as atwill followed with Shard, IT on Tab (to freeze all those lying on the ground) then ST, and FtF on those who survived...sometimes made couple of impacts with Chiling Cloud atwill. Passives were Chilling Presence and Swarth of Destruction.
As you can see i go MoF Thaumaturge.
I take Endless consumption as last boon in DR and + 500 damage when healed in IwD and Elven Resolve in Sharandar campaign to teleport more.
Game experience was awesome I managed to pull all solo encounters in dwarven valley withought even loosing half of my HP cause all mobs were frosen to death and dazed all time long during fights.
I want to thank devs for new CONTROL friendly CW rework.
Today i'll test HR to see its new Archery spec as currently i'm in meele spec which is far better the enithing.
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support.
I want to thank devs for new CONTROL friendly CW rework. yea really? singu 8 adds, single target skills still 0,2-0,5 sec stuns
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support.
You are GWF or you never play CW in pvp.
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charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited July 2014
Bug: Oppressor Immune monsters are sometimes affected by Twisting Immolation. I managed to leave a dragon standing around doing nothing for a few seconds.
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sokolnichiyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 187Arc User
yea really? singu 8 adds, single target skills still 0,2-0,5 sec stuns. You are GWF or you never play CW in pvp.
Singu is useless....as MoF i use Furious Immolation it surelly takes more the 8 adds in the air and with twisting immolation feat maxed they stay 4 seconds dazed after falling to the ground where they get frozen in a second with icy terrain.
I never play pvp cause it's boring most times except for low levels when it's really fun....and GG is just a mob riot disaster rush.
So IDK about pvp no matter what class i play (cause i have all of em maxed and geared).
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naveed24Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
Totally agree.
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
Suggestion:
Since Energy Recovery is being moved. To make it usable, please rework to the following:
*REWORK* Energy Recovery: In addition, Once your arcane mastery reaches 5 stacks, your EoTS ICD is reduced 2/4/6/8/10 secs for 8 secs. Your encounter powers refreshes this effect when cast within this window.
Feedback:
Now that Nightmare Wizardry had move, and to make this specialized and viable for Renegade, increase the damage to NW and make Phantasmal Destruction either increase in crit severity or increase the proc rate.
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
Devs please read this. Here is a player that hasn't given up on your game. If you dont take this seriously, it will be the end of many CWs in the game.
Yesterday I managed to test my wizard on preview in pve in Icewind dale and i can only say, that rework is made awesome.
Yep...shard of endless avalanche lost a large portion of its damage...BUT!....it is now more like controll power.
My rotation was Starting with SB as atwill followed with Shard, IT on Tab (to freeze all those lying on the ground) then ST, and FtF on those who survived...sometimes made couple of impacts with Chiling Cloud atwill. Passives were Chilling Presence and Swarth of Destruction.
As you can see i go MoF Thaumaturge.
I take Endless consumption as last boon in DR and + 500 damage when healed in IwD and Elven Resolve in Sharandar campaign to teleport more.
Game experience was awesome I managed to pull all solo encounters in dwarven valley withought even loosing half of my HP cause all mobs were frosen to death and dazed all time long during fights.
I want to thank devs for new CONTROL friendly CW rework.
Today i'll test HR to see its new Archery spec as currently i'm in meele spec which is far better the enithing.
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support.
look at this guy... first he said :
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support
and later as I thought he said :
I never play pvp cause it's boring most times except for low levels when it's really fun....
What kind of guys are in this topic??? He never play pvp but yes now CW will be ultimate DMG and super control, this is just pathetic... When peoples like you express in this thread than this is not surprise all this nerfs for CW d(-.-)b
I've played around on preview server for about 8 hours so far.
Spec: Oppresor/Therma
FEEDBACK:
With 12k gs I find oppresor build VERY difficult to kill with, and if fighting ANY immunes, very hard to survive with as a result. The damage is just so low that a battle with shock troop devils is a EPIC under taking. atleast with my gear.
Which with single and multi target damage down to a minimum I really fear for those leveling CW's... How hard will that be?
Therma is Decent, if your MOF.
Storm mages however, I can't find a viable build Anywhere for... They don't belong in therma, and would proly be more at home in Oppressor because You get passives here that could help all the ice spells your gonna be slinging.
Renegade is dead imo.
PVP cw got murdered in. You cannot win. You cannot contribute. Let me explain. For pve you increased CC. (pointless in pvp because everyone has incredible resistance to it or is completely immune, this will only get worse with gear in module 4)
You've lowered Damage across the board, (which means we have ZERO burst damage in pvp which is required to down targets) , you've increased cooldowns ( which has the side effect of making our attacks more interruptible and decreases Both the effectiveness of our damage, and crowd control.)
PVE, Almost balanced. Doesn't need anymore nerfs, infact its still a little bit weaker then I'm comfortable with.
Bugs:
shard of endless avalanche: Misses when you slam the ball right into enemies periodically, Doesn't prone for 5 seconds all the time, infact I'd say it prones for 5 seconds about 1-5 times, most of the time it fails to even hold them for a second as if the explosion knock back is the only thing that proced. So coupled with the need to aim, Buggy hits, and incredibly low damage players would be better off slotting ANYTHING else.
Suggestion: Make a pvp spec. PVP specs need High single target damage, or if u don't wanna give us that, give us a way to pierce the the CC resistance, or give us significantly decreased cooldowns, or if you don't want us to kill anything in pvp atleast give us buffs so we can make people able to take down the enemies. currently we lack everything.
for pve, we truly lack the ability to kill anything as oppressor and rely on all low tier low level spells, and if steal time is going to be our new staple skill we need it buffed. fanning the flames cooldown is crazy high. it needs to be adjusted, as a master of flames its our only skill that really sets things on fire, its not tab worthy, and barley bar worthy with its High cooldown. or change our at will to add a smolder effect atleast, otherwise our Master of flame spec, is really just a master of candlelight spec. x.x
The most obvious place to build a pvp spec is in the renegade tree. No one really likes it anymore and its pretty useless. Tweak this tree into your pvp build. Messing with the other tree's would prolly kill us because as it is, it's such a delicate balance that makes opp and therma remotly viable.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The most obvious place to build a pvp spec is in the renegade tree. No one really likes it anymore and its pretty useless. Tweak this tree into your pvp build. Messing with the other tree's would prolly kill us because as it is, it's such a delicate balance that makes opp and therma remotly viable.
Ok...so my first reaction to this was, "What, are you crazy?" But then it got me thinking...kill two birds with one stone. Buff the Renegade tree to put out tremendous single target damage. Thaumaturge can still be the go-to AOE PvE spec, and Oppressor can be the Control spec.
Yesterday I managed to test my wizard on preview in pve in Icewind dale and i can only say, that rework is made awesome.
Yep...shard of endless avalanche lost a large portion of its damage...BUT!....it is now more like controll power.
My rotation was Starting with SB as atwill followed with Shard, IT on Tab (to freeze all those lying on the ground) then ST, and FtF on those who survived...sometimes made couple of impacts with Chiling Cloud atwill. Passives were Chilling Presence and Swarth of Destruction.
As you can see i go MoF Thaumaturge.
I take Endless consumption as last boon in DR and + 500 damage when healed in IwD and Elven Resolve in Sharandar campaign to teleport more.
Game experience was awesome I managed to pull all solo encounters in dwarven valley withought even loosing half of my HP cause all mobs were frosen to death and dazed all time long during fights.
I want to thank devs for new CONTROL friendly CW rework.
Today i'll test HR to see its new Archery spec as currently i'm in meele spec which is far better the enithing.
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support.
Can you be more specific about the tests you've done and especialy your character lvl but also if you are playing the exact same character with same equipment on live server (just be honest).
Why i ask you that it's beacuse i have a 15k wizard with ioun stone and enchant and with that i'm doing more than twice the damage a fresh 10 gs CW will do. and if i can do encounter in second map of IWD on the test server only requiring twice time as on live server (but still doable) on the bugged encounter in the first map or in briggin i can already feel the difficulty so i can easely imagine what it give for a fresh CW in IWD.
some encounter in the first map of IWD look like to have epic life (it is the case on live server but it was also the case when i did my first test around 3 weeks ago on the previous server) In the second map encounter have more life barr than the normal mob on the map but they are not with epic statut
Buff the Renegade tree to put out tremendous single target damage. Thaumaturge can still be the go-to AOE PvE spec, and Oppressor can be the Control spec.
This is how it's always been before Tenacity. Tenacity hurt Renegade (but also the other specs) pretty bad, which is why almost all PvP CWs have quit the game at that point, which led to the Leaderboard we're seeing today. And those CWs had a point. CW is extremely underpowered in PvP compared to the other classes. But I was still trying to pull off a Renegade build (giving up a lot of survivability for it compared to other CW builds). And on Preview Shard the PvP CW is completely dead.
Don't know if it's a bug or cc resistance,however I have yet to see a group of monsters,in IWD, affected by Twisting Immolation. I used Furious Immolation on a number of occasions,grouped them up and they immediately attacked me again. No stun or daze or anything else whatsoever.
I'm sorry to say that playing a CW is no longer the fun it used to be. I understand that with another spell casting class on the way cws had to be drastically changed,or even heavily nerfed, so as to give the new one some space and more appeal. However i think it is unbalanced and unfair. Many have already been said in this and other threads so I'll not go into more details,since i think of it as pointless. So do what you must,it's your game after all,we are just guests here anyway.
It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Okay guys, this is getting a little over the top now. Keep the class feedback in the pertinent threads.
The amount of off topic, cross contamination in the last two days is making my job far, far more time consuming and unfortunately at this point I am calling it quits in regards to saving posts.
Please read the Official Feedback Guidelines which can be found
on the first page of every feedback thread.
Every day I remove at least two pages of discussions. Please guys, if you are clicking the reply button understand that there is, quite seriously, a 99% chance I am simply going to remove it from the Official Feedback threads. Please stop and think twice before posting a reply.
However in the last two days everything is mashed together. Sorry guys but I do not have the time to read through all of these posts four times over to sort them out especially when the posts are actually 'GWF' feedback which is nothing more than complaints on what other classes have in comparison.
TL;DR: If your post is removed and you feel it contained an important message then you can either post it as feedback (not a reply/discussion/debate), post it in the discussions threads or PM me and I will look into where it should go.
Mel posted some good feedbacks, i agree on almost everything.
The problem right now is that on live server server cw is kinda viable in pvp even with a couple classes pretty much OP/broken but it's really really hard to play in a decent competitive way no matter what your build is, while on preview server the class is totally destroyed and unviable, this rework/overkill brought nothing slightly entertaining or useful.
Right now the class is a no skill DoT spamming waiting on a feat to proc just to do 40% of the damage we do on live server and then die.
Nobody ever complained about cw's in pvp, you could've toned down the damage in pve without interfering with pvp at all (just take a look at the hundreds of feedbacks).
We spent days in preview testing everything, there's nothing more to test, it's not about renegade, oppressor, thaumaturge,it's about the class and the fact that it's in a terrible spot right now.
Mel posted some good feedbacks, i agree on almost everything.
The problem right now is that on live server server cw is kinda viable in pvp even with a couple classes pretty much OP/broken but it's really really hard to play in a decent competitive way no matter what your build is, while on preview server the class is totally destroyed and unviable, this rework/overkill brought nothing slightly entertaining or useful.
Right now the class is a no skill DoT spamming waiting on a feat to proc just to do 40% of the damage we do on live server and then die.
Nobody ever complained about cw's in pvp, you could've toned down the damage in pve without interfering with pvp at all (just take a look at the hundreds of feedbacks).
We spent days in preview testing everything, there's nothing more to test, it's not about renegade, oppressor, thaumaturge,it's about the class and the fact that it's in a terrible spot right now.
Yeah overall the class now feels kinda boring to play. Control isnt that fun in the long run without being able to kill stuff. And just using Thaum and let the DoT do the work for you isnt that fun either.
They should just revert almost all changes and just nerf the PvE damage - not the PvP.
Yeah overall the class now feels kinda boring to play. Control isnt that fun in the long run without being able to kill stuff. And just using Thaum and let the DoT do the work for you isnt that fun either.
They should just revert almost all changes and just nerf the PvE damage - not the PvP.
yes, that would be the most logical option for control wizards at this point, revert the changes, make shard do -50% less damage off spell mastery (which would solve pve Q.Q) and keep the increased prone duration,
Buffing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of HR's and GFs and nerfing a class that is already underperforming against classes already is a horrible mistake, you should be buffing CW single target instead of nerfing it.
also, if you decide not to revert the class back (which you absolutely should) then move assailing to renegade, and give thaum a capstone similar to gwfs where we build "magical stacks", it stacks to 20, increasing our total damage by 40% like gwfs.
put the eye of the storm cooldown feat the mel suggested in instead of critical power, and encounter and atwill buff feat should go in the first section of thaum replacing malevolent surge.
There are far too many complaints about how bad CWs are right now to ignore our posts and suggestions to improve the class. it has been gimped since the implementation of tenacity, and now that classes are gaining even more CC resists and DR, instead of making us tankier with shield, our damage output needs to be increased not decrease (at the very minimum our single target) and a easy fix for shard is nerf it 50% dmg when off spell mastery. which turns it into a an encounter that requires skill to use in pvp.
HR, GWF, GF, and SW each get an ARP % bonus (10-15% for PvP builds) from an ability score allowing them more flexibility in min/maxing stats and complete mitigation of their target's defense in many cases.
As CW, I would have to stack 4000+ ARP for 30% while classes with an ability score ARP bonus can stack 2300 ARP for 30-35% total when coupled with their bonus. That's almost 2k stats that they can shift elsewhere.
Why not add this to CW and then TR/DC when those reworks are done? Last time I checked, CW is a striker class...
For CW I could see it being added to CON, CHA, or STR -- something like X% ARP bonus for each point above X ability score.
Around .5-1% per point in CON above 10 would do wonders in PvP for giving damage back, and have a lesser effect on the PvE side since CON is not stacked there.
1 just test low lvl with a CW. I die against the first boss in the first quest (the crown quest). the reduction of magic missile is deadly at this lvl since it is the only option to make damage (even ended at less than half pv again the mini boss on the bridge a beginner can even die there).
Mean the easiest part where i get no difficult with each class i start is already difficult for CW on test server.
Continue leveling will become harder and harder and there is gap that probably canno't be even pass alone or with a huge higher lvl than required for the map mean playing the solo lvl quest is no more even possible without making lvl on lower mob.
For player that have just the lvl of equipment required for the map it will be more than challenge to do it and each mob or boss with control immun really hard to kill.
doing sharandar and terror will probably require around 9-10k gs to be done and IWD not under 12 kgs and with extreme difficulty for those if there is no weapon enchant.
PVP part: no comment all have already been said
dongeon part: here i not test yet
So to resume CW is a broken class where you have to put lot of money to make it playable for solo content if you are a fresh starter.
and for PVP we were on the bottom of the sea now we are digging.
Edit:
We canno't make any feedback for single point to correct since it's the whole construct in all of the 3 tree that are problematic
1 just test low lvl with a CW. I die against the first boss in the first quest (the crown quest).
I opened a topic about it but it died quickly.
I transferred a low-level CW to the preview shard, and I couldn't kill the last boss on Icespire Peak (the wolf) and the last boss on Mount Hotenow (the giant) alone. I couldn't even get their HP to half-way.
I didn't go to the Whispering Caverns but since there are more control immune monsters there I don't think it would be different too.
also, if you decide not to revert the class back (which you absolutely should) then move assailing to renegade, and give thaum a capstone similar to gwfs where we build "magical stacks", it stacks to 20, increasing our total damage by 40% like gwfs.
This. 100% agreed, although that would not "save" the Renegade. Without a hard-hitting Magic Missile (higher base damage + reliable Crit Severity bonuses), I might as well go Thaum with Renegade encounters. And with the additional damage bonus for Meatball, Icy Rays, and forced into using RoF, I might as well go Meatball rotation.
It's not that Renegades are OP at the moment... at least, there are a bunch of CWs around here who willingly don't go for that build. So, can't be that OP.
On the preview shard, Magic Missile deals the lowest damage out of all At-Wills. On Live, it's like this: you sacrifice the slowing and freezing effects from RoF for more damage. If MM doesn't deal significantly more damage than RoF, then why is it even there?
I completely agree with Adam. Except Magic Missile needs a (much) higher base damage in order to make Renegade work. I would still prefer a complete reversion of the changes, and then nerfs to pure PvE abilities: Singularity (target cap nerf), Steal Time (damage nerf), Chill Strike on Spell Mastery (target cap on Spell Mastery down from 5 to 3), Sudden Storm (damage nerf), Oppressive Force (target cap nerf only), Shard of the Endless Avalanche (non-Spell Mastery only, damage nerf), Conduit of Ice (damage nerf), Icy Terrain (damage nerf). Maybe a little tweak to the High Vizier set (4-set bonus: from "450" down to "250"). That's it. CW would remain the same in PvP (no changes), he would be much less effective in dungeons (hell, even less effective than it is with your nerfs now), but remain powerful for leveling/solo playing. No changes in feats would be necessary. And fix Repel!
Both abilities are vital for any new CW, aswell as endgame CWs. They are invaluable skills but with the newfound nerfs of mod4, the backbone abilities of the CW are almost cut in half, making them essentially useless for dealing damage. (Not to mention how hard it is on low level CWs compared to other classes, none of them got anywhere near the overall damage nurfs so it's going to be so much easier play and level any other class at a low level.) It's a pretty bias update if you guys are only going on the basis that endgame CWs build for pure DPS in dungeons grants the class to such a big overall nurf, that affects every aspect of the playstyle and the reason to play. An ineffective class is a class not worth playing at all.
Entangling Force: This power's damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds).
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall.
Feedback: Entangling Force
Entangling Force's damage is already low. I find it hard to understand that its damage needs to be even lower.
And its base control duration needs to be increased. GWF/GF's powers have had their base stun duration increased to 3 seconds. But fighters aren't supposed to have better CC than Control Wizard. If their CC gets buffed, our CC needs to be buffed correspondingly as well.
Is there any chance to have things change for the CW on the previous server ?
I mean things that are not just bug.
If actual CW on previous is what dev want to be let put and write it there so like that both side will stop lose there time.
like that players will stop post repetitive post.
moderator will not have to do endless clean on the forum
Dev will no more have to read complain.
For player's I hope you can understand that continue posting thousand time same thing (i also include me so i'm not better ) doesn't goes somewhere if CW is just where dev want it to be.
For dev / mod i hope you can understand that answer given, is the key of what you have for future return
(i hope that every one will be smart enough to not post or reply before having answer)
0
jeffmwillsonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 116Arc User
HR, GWF, GF, and SW each get an ARP % bonus (10-15% for PvP builds) from an ability score allowing them more flexibility in min/maxing stats and complete mitigation of their target's defense in many cases.
As CW, I would have to stack 4000+ ARP for 30% while classes with an ability score ARP bonus can stack 2300 ARP for 30-35% total when coupled with their bonus. That's almost 2k stats that they can shift elsewhere.
Why not add this to CW and then TR/DC when those reworks are done? Last time I checked, CW is a striker class...
For CW I could see it being added to CON, CHA, or STR -- something like X% ARP bonus for each point above X ability score.
Around .5-1% per point in CON above 10 would do wonders in PvP for giving damage back, and have a lesser effect on the PvE side since CON is not stacked there.
^ I agree.. this difference in stats is a HUGE advantage for classes with the bonus.
0
jeffmwillsonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 116Arc User
edited July 2014
Quote Originally Posted by meldan3n View Post
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore
100% support these changes -- I would hate to see the meta shift to a bunch of shield wearing assailant spammers, very little build customization, and small dependency on overall skill or mastery of your rotation (ie. landing shard).
Please Devs listen to the community. This topic was opened for a reason and you are getting feedback. It looks like a greed move on your part due to Warlocks coming. "how do we make more money on a casting class, ensure all the other casting class is forced to play it - CW NERF.. brilliant' The feedback on this thread is spot on and HUGE changes need to be made to save this class from turning into a class that no one will play. This mod is all about Class balance, but as it has been mentioned time and time again. CW has been at the bottom of PVP since tenacity. And never on the top. The new boons prove it is possible to adjust in PVP without effecting PVE and vice versa. Why not look at it from both perspectives as the PVP community will eventually be all that you have left as PVE dungeons get old quick , so PVE players will move to PVP to keep entertained. WE NEED SERIOUS CHANGES ON WHAT HAS BEEN CHANGED to keep the class viable at all.
Comments
+1 in support of this.
None of the current Top PvP wizards want to see a meta shift to everyone wearing shield and utilising Assailing.
I know I speak for all of us when I say that we don't want to have to rely on a single feat point to make us competitive in PvP.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Yep...shard of endless avalanche lost a large portion of its damage...BUT!....it is now more like controll power.
My rotation was Starting with SB as atwill followed with Shard, IT on Tab (to freeze all those lying on the ground) then ST, and FtF on those who survived...sometimes made couple of impacts with Chiling Cloud atwill. Passives were Chilling Presence and Swarth of Destruction.
As you can see i go MoF Thaumaturge.
I take Endless consumption as last boon in DR and + 500 damage when healed in IwD and Elven Resolve in Sharandar campaign to teleport more.
Game experience was awesome I managed to pull all solo encounters in dwarven valley withought even loosing half of my HP cause all mobs were frosen to death and dazed all time long during fights.
I want to thank devs for new CONTROL friendly CW rework.
Today i'll test HR to see its new Archery spec as currently i'm in meele spec which is far better the enithing.
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support.
You are GWF or you never play CW in pvp.
Immune monsters are sometimes affected by Twisting Immolation. I managed to leave a dragon standing around doing nothing for a few seconds.
Singu is useless....as MoF i use Furious Immolation it surelly takes more the 8 adds in the air and with twisting immolation feat maxed they stay 4 seconds dazed after falling to the ground where they get frozen in a second with icy terrain.
I never play pvp cause it's boring most times except for low levels when it's really fun....and GG is just a mob riot disaster rush.
So IDK about pvp no matter what class i play (cause i have all of em maxed and geared).
Since Energy Recovery is being moved. To make it usable, please rework to the following:
*REWORK* Energy Recovery: In addition, Once your arcane mastery reaches 5 stacks, your EoTS ICD is reduced 2/4/6/8/10 secs for 8 secs. Your encounter powers refreshes this effect when cast within this window.
Feedback:
Now that Nightmare Wizardry had move, and to make this specialized and viable for Renegade, increase the damage to NW and make Phantasmal Destruction either increase in crit severity or increase the proc rate.
Devs please read this. Here is a player that hasn't given up on your game. If you dont take this seriously, it will be the end of many CWs in the game.
I would like to see the devs address them
look at this guy... first he said :
And what about CW specs....i think Opressor is now super annoying PvP spec, thaumaturge is Ultimate damage dealer + abit of CC and Renegade with SW set bonus is pure support buffer party friendly wizard for dungeon support
and later as I thought he said :
I never play pvp cause it's boring most times except for low levels when it's really fun....
What kind of guys are in this topic??? He never play pvp but yes now CW will be ultimate DMG and super control, this is just pathetic... When peoples like you express in this thread than this is not surprise all this nerfs for CW d(-.-)b
Spec: Oppresor/Therma
FEEDBACK:
With 12k gs I find oppresor build VERY difficult to kill with, and if fighting ANY immunes, very hard to survive with as a result. The damage is just so low that a battle with shock troop devils is a EPIC under taking. atleast with my gear.
Which with single and multi target damage down to a minimum I really fear for those leveling CW's... How hard will that be?
Therma is Decent, if your MOF.
Storm mages however, I can't find a viable build Anywhere for... They don't belong in therma, and would proly be more at home in Oppressor because You get passives here that could help all the ice spells your gonna be slinging.
Renegade is dead imo.
PVP cw got murdered in. You cannot win. You cannot contribute. Let me explain. For pve you increased CC. (pointless in pvp because everyone has incredible resistance to it or is completely immune, this will only get worse with gear in module 4)
You've lowered Damage across the board, (which means we have ZERO burst damage in pvp which is required to down targets) , you've increased cooldowns ( which has the side effect of making our attacks more interruptible and decreases Both the effectiveness of our damage, and crowd control.)
PVE, Almost balanced. Doesn't need anymore nerfs, infact its still a little bit weaker then I'm comfortable with.
Bugs:
shard of endless avalanche: Misses when you slam the ball right into enemies periodically, Doesn't prone for 5 seconds all the time, infact I'd say it prones for 5 seconds about 1-5 times, most of the time it fails to even hold them for a second as if the explosion knock back is the only thing that proced. So coupled with the need to aim, Buggy hits, and incredibly low damage players would be better off slotting ANYTHING else.
Suggestion: Make a pvp spec. PVP specs need High single target damage, or if u don't wanna give us that, give us a way to pierce the the CC resistance, or give us significantly decreased cooldowns, or if you don't want us to kill anything in pvp atleast give us buffs so we can make people able to take down the enemies. currently we lack everything.
for pve, we truly lack the ability to kill anything as oppressor and rely on all low tier low level spells, and if steal time is going to be our new staple skill we need it buffed. fanning the flames cooldown is crazy high. it needs to be adjusted, as a master of flames its our only skill that really sets things on fire, its not tab worthy, and barley bar worthy with its High cooldown. or change our at will to add a smolder effect atleast, otherwise our Master of flame spec, is really just a master of candlelight spec. x.x
The most obvious place to build a pvp spec is in the renegade tree. No one really likes it anymore and its pretty useless. Tweak this tree into your pvp build. Messing with the other tree's would prolly kill us because as it is, it's such a delicate balance that makes opp and therma remotly viable.
Ok...so my first reaction to this was, "What, are you crazy?" But then it got me thinking...kill two birds with one stone. Buff the Renegade tree to put out tremendous single target damage. Thaumaturge can still be the go-to AOE PvE spec, and Oppressor can be the Control spec.
Can you be more specific about the tests you've done and especialy your character lvl but also if you are playing the exact same character with same equipment on live server (just be honest).
Why i ask you that it's beacuse i have a 15k wizard with ioun stone and enchant and with that i'm doing more than twice the damage a fresh 10 gs CW will do. and if i can do encounter in second map of IWD on the test server only requiring twice time as on live server (but still doable) on the bugged encounter in the first map or in briggin i can already feel the difficulty so i can easely imagine what it give for a fresh CW in IWD.
some encounter in the first map of IWD look like to have epic life (it is the case on live server but it was also the case when i did my first test around 3 weeks ago on the previous server) In the second map encounter have more life barr than the normal mob on the map but they are not with epic statut
This is how it's always been before Tenacity. Tenacity hurt Renegade (but also the other specs) pretty bad, which is why almost all PvP CWs have quit the game at that point, which led to the Leaderboard we're seeing today. And those CWs had a point. CW is extremely underpowered in PvP compared to the other classes. But I was still trying to pull off a Renegade build (giving up a lot of survivability for it compared to other CW builds). And on Preview Shard the PvP CW is completely dead.
Don't know if it's a bug or cc resistance,however I have yet to see a group of monsters,in IWD, affected by Twisting Immolation. I used Furious Immolation on a number of occasions,grouped them up and they immediately attacked me again. No stun or daze or anything else whatsoever.
I'm sorry to say that playing a CW is no longer the fun it used to be. I understand that with another spell casting class on the way cws had to be drastically changed,or even heavily nerfed, so as to give the new one some space and more appeal. However i think it is unbalanced and unfair. Many have already been said in this and other threads so I'll not go into more details,since i think of it as pointless. So do what you must,it's your game after all,we are just guests here anyway.
The amount of off topic, cross contamination in the last two days is making my job far, far more time consuming and unfortunately at this point I am calling it quits in regards to saving posts.
on the first page of every feedback thread.
Every day I remove at least two pages of discussions. Please guys, if you are clicking the reply button understand that there is, quite seriously, a 99% chance I am simply going to remove it from the Official Feedback threads. Please stop and think twice before posting a reply.
However in the last two days everything is mashed together. Sorry guys but I do not have the time to read through all of these posts four times over to sort them out especially when the posts are actually 'GWF' feedback which is nothing more than complaints on what other classes have in comparison.
All i got to say is...
With CW current shield (not nurfed yet)
http://gyazo.com/26bfb26a15980bf83c01bcc61d0b4b8a
http://gyazo.com/ba86369ee0be24e0c8b6997e1fa71cda
Without CW shield at all
http://gyazo.com/f45b79bd8e6685a18d7322ff09770af3
Why is this even possible... and why is shield getting nurfed so much if this IS possible?
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
The problem right now is that on live server server cw is kinda viable in pvp even with a couple classes pretty much OP/broken but it's really really hard to play in a decent competitive way no matter what your build is, while on preview server the class is totally destroyed and unviable, this rework/overkill brought nothing slightly entertaining or useful.
Right now the class is a no skill DoT spamming waiting on a feat to proc just to do 40% of the damage we do on live server and then die.
Nobody ever complained about cw's in pvp, you could've toned down the damage in pve without interfering with pvp at all (just take a look at the hundreds of feedbacks).
We spent days in preview testing everything, there's nothing more to test, it's not about renegade, oppressor, thaumaturge,it's about the class and the fact that it's in a terrible spot right now.
Yeah overall the class now feels kinda boring to play. Control isnt that fun in the long run without being able to kill stuff. And just using Thaum and let the DoT do the work for you isnt that fun either.
They should just revert almost all changes and just nerf the PvE damage - not the PvP.
yes, that would be the most logical option for control wizards at this point, revert the changes, make shard do -50% less damage off spell mastery (which would solve pve Q.Q) and keep the increased prone duration,
Buffing the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of HR's and GFs and nerfing a class that is already underperforming against classes already is a horrible mistake, you should be buffing CW single target instead of nerfing it.
also, if you decide not to revert the class back (which you absolutely should) then move assailing to renegade, and give thaum a capstone similar to gwfs where we build "magical stacks", it stacks to 20, increasing our total damage by 40% like gwfs.
put the eye of the storm cooldown feat the mel suggested in instead of critical power, and encounter and atwill buff feat should go in the first section of thaum replacing malevolent surge.
There are far too many complaints about how bad CWs are right now to ignore our posts and suggestions to improve the class. it has been gimped since the implementation of tenacity, and now that classes are gaining even more CC resists and DR, instead of making us tankier with shield, our damage output needs to be increased not decrease (at the very minimum our single target) and a easy fix for shard is nerf it 50% dmg when off spell mastery. which turns it into a an encounter that requires skill to use in pvp.
As CW, I would have to stack 4000+ ARP for 30% while classes with an ability score ARP bonus can stack 2300 ARP for 30-35% total when coupled with their bonus. That's almost 2k stats that they can shift elsewhere.
Why not add this to CW and then TR/DC when those reworks are done? Last time I checked, CW is a striker class...
For CW I could see it being added to CON, CHA, or STR -- something like X% ARP bonus for each point above X ability score.
Around .5-1% per point in CON above 10 would do wonders in PvP for giving damage back, and have a lesser effect on the PvE side since CON is not stacked there.
twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
1 just test low lvl with a CW. I die against the first boss in the first quest (the crown quest). the reduction of magic missile is deadly at this lvl since it is the only option to make damage (even ended at less than half pv again the mini boss on the bridge a beginner can even die there).
Mean the easiest part where i get no difficult with each class i start is already difficult for CW on test server.
Continue leveling will become harder and harder and there is gap that probably canno't be even pass alone or with a huge higher lvl than required for the map mean playing the solo lvl quest is no more even possible without making lvl on lower mob.
For player that have just the lvl of equipment required for the map it will be more than challenge to do it and each mob or boss with control immun really hard to kill.
doing sharandar and terror will probably require around 9-10k gs to be done and IWD not under 12 kgs and with extreme difficulty for those if there is no weapon enchant.
PVP part: no comment all have already been said
dongeon part: here i not test yet
So to resume CW is a broken class where you have to put lot of money to make it playable for solo content if you are a fresh starter.
and for PVP we were on the bottom of the sea now we are digging.
Edit:
We canno't make any feedback for single point to correct since it's the whole construct in all of the 3 tree that are problematic
I opened a topic about it but it died quickly.
I transferred a low-level CW to the preview shard, and I couldn't kill the last boss on Icespire Peak (the wolf) and the last boss on Mount Hotenow (the giant) alone. I couldn't even get their HP to half-way.
I didn't go to the Whispering Caverns but since there are more control immune monsters there I don't think it would be different too.
This. 100% agreed, although that would not "save" the Renegade. Without a hard-hitting Magic Missile (higher base damage + reliable Crit Severity bonuses), I might as well go Thaum with Renegade encounters. And with the additional damage bonus for Meatball, Icy Rays, and forced into using RoF, I might as well go Meatball rotation.
It's not that Renegades are OP at the moment... at least, there are a bunch of CWs around here who willingly don't go for that build. So, can't be that OP.
On the preview shard, Magic Missile deals the lowest damage out of all At-Wills. On Live, it's like this: you sacrifice the slowing and freezing effects from RoF for more damage. If MM doesn't deal significantly more damage than RoF, then why is it even there?
I completely agree with Adam. Except Magic Missile needs a (much) higher base damage in order to make Renegade work. I would still prefer a complete reversion of the changes, and then nerfs to pure PvE abilities: Singularity (target cap nerf), Steal Time (damage nerf), Chill Strike on Spell Mastery (target cap on Spell Mastery down from 5 to 3), Sudden Storm (damage nerf), Oppressive Force (target cap nerf only), Shard of the Endless Avalanche (non-Spell Mastery only, damage nerf), Conduit of Ice (damage nerf), Icy Terrain (damage nerf). Maybe a little tweak to the High Vizier set (4-set bonus: from "450" down to "250"). That's it. CW would remain the same in PvP (no changes), he would be much less effective in dungeons (hell, even less effective than it is with your nerfs now), but remain powerful for leveling/solo playing. No changes in feats would be necessary. And fix Repel!
Both abilities are vital for any new CW, aswell as endgame CWs. They are invaluable skills but with the newfound nerfs of mod4, the backbone abilities of the CW are almost cut in half, making them essentially useless for dealing damage. (Not to mention how hard it is on low level CWs compared to other classes, none of them got anywhere near the overall damage nurfs so it's going to be so much easier play and level any other class at a low level.) It's a pretty bias update if you guys are only going on the basis that endgame CWs build for pure DPS in dungeons grants the class to such a big overall nurf, that affects every aspect of the playstyle and the reason to play. An ineffective class is a class not worth playing at all.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Feedback: Entangling Force
Entangling Force's damage is already low. I find it hard to understand that its damage needs to be even lower.
And its base control duration needs to be increased. GWF/GF's powers have had their base stun duration increased to 3 seconds. But fighters aren't supposed to have better CC than Control Wizard. If their CC gets buffed, our CC needs to be buffed correspondingly as well.
Is there any chance to have things change for the CW on the previous server ?
I mean things that are not just bug.
If actual CW on previous is what dev want to be let put and write it there so like that both side will stop lose there time.
like that players will stop post repetitive post.
moderator will not have to do endless clean on the forum
Dev will no more have to read complain.
For player's I hope you can understand that continue posting thousand time same thing (i also include me so i'm not better
For dev / mod i hope you can understand that answer given, is the key of what you have for future return
(i hope that every one will be smart enough to not post or reply before having answer)
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore
Please Devs listen to the community. This topic was opened for a reason and you are getting feedback. It looks like a greed move on your part due to Warlocks coming. "how do we make more money on a casting class, ensure all the other casting class is forced to play it - CW NERF.. brilliant' The feedback on this thread is spot on and HUGE changes need to be made to save this class from turning into a class that no one will play. This mod is all about Class balance, but as it has been mentioned time and time again. CW has been at the bottom of PVP since tenacity. And never on the top. The new boons prove it is possible to adjust in PVP without effecting PVE and vice versa. Why not look at it from both perspectives as the PVP community will eventually be all that you have left as PVE dungeons get old quick , so PVE players will move to PVP to keep entertained. WE NEED SERIOUS CHANGES ON WHAT HAS BEEN CHANGED to keep the class viable at all.