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Official Feedback Thread: Control Wizard Changes

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  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    Still no love for the renegades, I see.

    Will we at least be getting respec tokens so we can drop Focused Wizardry, or are we all to stay at campfires from now on.

    Also, when will be able to put our points back into Nightmare Wizardry so we can test it?


    We will probably need a forced respec due to the moving of Nightmare wizardry .
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Dang lad i dont understand washa toking about... ((

    I have a 15k with Ioun Stone MoF/THAUM CW Legion/Black Ice gear, Plaguefire chant. Transfered him to preview, respeced into the same Thaum/MoF CW just changing feats to max out pve effectivnes. and i steamroll every god darn mob on any map of high level content and heroic encounters in dwarven valley cause i get damage, i have controll with stun slow and freeze + debufing and burning stuff and lots of lifesteal to keep me up thx for large and constant burn damage.

    On live server in open world pvp i easely burn TR's no matter what spec....even DC's and other CW...HR...here it's rather complicated with em....GWF GF...no sir...

    So that's all i can say...

    That what i suspected, 1 some test for pvp part are already out out of date since after they cut by half damage done by assaillant on player, they also cut by half the unstable absorption of shield and the last fact is don't forget that your build is not a standard build that will arrive in IWD. A player that just do and follow solo part arrive at IWD with 10-11 k GS and no enchant and not have even full T1 set yet. it same as saying that you don't have problem doing a lvl 30 map with a lvl 60. It same for your equip you already have ice gear equip. player that arrive their doN,t have it, it why they start the map.

    For the rest of comment of the community about the last change given by gentleman, i will say i doN,t get it anymore, for the first time since the beginning of this mess it the first positive return we get. And you still crying.

    the onlive CW is a big mess overperforming PVE and under performing in PVP (actually only some professionnal dodger are able to make 1VS1 but it's not a standard CW and that why every one running on us to do their kill). the only thing we had for pvp was some party help). The CW on the previous server without the last annouced change is barrely performing PVE (and underperforming on leveling part) and is nowhere in pvp. the change announced seems to correct a going in the right direction but Need to be tested.

    What i only and personnaly ask for dev is to have a character that can perform in both pvp and pve. i neither want some semi god class in both aspect. else i would have already taken HR or GWF (in actual server) or GF on the previous for the pvp.

    So if those change permit me to have one build that stop other class running on me like i'm a call girl. as long as those change permit me to be able to do all the content with an equal chance as other class. I'm ok with it.

    And even for those who absolutly want the name renegade and it appears and at the end that is no more the best way for PVP. put a stick on your screen and write renegade
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    So...now all CW rotation will be -> thauma-> chill strike-> entangling force-> icy terrain- tab shield-> and jump around point waiting to assaling force will kill your enemy-> sounds interesting, thank you for incredible changes ^.^

    Personally, i stopped to use shard becouse it was mighty bugged (missed, stuck, disappear when we were stunned) but using it was really fun, sometimes i was using it to refresh my ability to control this power becouse it is really hard (probably hardest skill to learn in pvp in all game, and players were learning their combo through many many days and battles), now 33% down +66% down + all ours feats down = no damage, and sorry maby when i was fighting with another CW dmg was high but during the battle with good GWF/HR dmg was funny low, there is no problem with dmg in this skill, it is problem with paper classes with their survivabiliy. I was waiting when you fix this skill, that i can use it more often in pvp matches, but you really completely burn it down...well looks like my RoE still reigns on TAB.

    honestly that absolutly not what i have in mind for my CW for pvp :)
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So, we're now able to start a fight with 6 seconds of guaranteed crits? That's pretty powerful on paper...wonder how it's going to work in practice.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    loboguild wrote: »
    This definitely demands a new line of testing, but one thing straight up: When used with all sorts of DoTs, Storm Spell already contributed roughly 10% of the DPS in AoE situations and the best combination of class features for a Thaum wizard remained Storm Spell and EotS (closely followed by Evocation) for PVE.
    Now with the buffs the gap beween Evocation should widen again and I fully expect Storm Spell to contribute a massive 25% of AoE DPS.

    Looking at an ACT parse of the test dummies in the Dread Ring (using Storm Spell), adjusting for the this buff (7 times more effective that previously) to Storm Spell, we're looking at Storm Spell being 30% of our DPS (using a rotation of COI[tabbed], Steal Time, Icy Terrain, feated Sudden Storm). Expect to see this nerfed soonest (I can't see giving us back 1/2 of our lost DPS from Mod 3). And that's with no skill required.

    Looking at the change to EoTS, I can't see it going live either - I can see the DC artifact and the new PVP rotation ending in Ice knife.
  • iamannoyingdeviliamannoyingdevil Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I just love it , people complain non stop for page after page that single target dps needs to be buffed back up , GC finally buffs control wizard back up to a reasonable place and now people complain it is buffed too much , you have got to be kidding me .... GC has said no matter what happens shard is not getting any further adjustments so we got these class feature buffs and the other couple of minor MoF buffs , I'm happy with that and thank GC for at least giving us some damage back and I'm sure newer players leveling CW's will thank him too.
  • nyxiestyxnyxiestyx Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    While I appreciate that they have returned even a very minimal amout of damage to single target spells the fact that AOE has been completely gutted makes it extremely hard to play PVE questing alone. Sorry but the more I look at the changes and play them in beta with my friend, the more this looks like a straight forward cash grab to make CW not viable in either PVE or PVP so that people will play the new Warlock class and dump more money into the game. Very,very disappointing. Devs please listen to your community and pull back on the changes. They are far too extreme.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Really don't get it. They consider shard too OP, but they toss in assailing force plus now, an easy 100% free cycle of crit encounters to unload on someone.
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nuudlz wrote: »
    Feedback

    Is it WAI that if you hit a stealthed targed with Repel that it will become visible for you and all your allies even if the enemies stealth bar is not fully drained?

    The devs commented on it back in Module 1 (specifically, on Steal Time) that if you get stunned by an encounter, you become visible to the caster for the duration of the stun. Since Repel is a stun, it makes you visible. If you become visible to the caster's allies from it, it is probably a bug. But I haven't noticed this effect yet. And I use a lot of Repel. ;)
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    We will probably need a forced respec due to the moving of Nightmare wizardry .

    On test they took the 5 points out of nightmare wizardry, moving it, and I can't put them back in.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    On test they took the 5 points out of nightmare wizardry, moving it, and I can't put them back in.

    Yeah same with me , that's why I'm thinking it will be a full forced respec ,in other words unless they find a way to fix the issue you described you will log in after module 4 patches and your character will be reset and you will have to do a full respec for free ofc.
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  • lococatt91lococatt91 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 162 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Storm spell
    I thought this class ability now had an ICD, meaning if its 10% or 35% it could still only proc once per so many seconds.
    Am I mistaken?
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm trying to give Maelstrom of Chaos a chance again. It can crit nice now, thank you for that, but still:

    MAELSTROM OF CHAOS doesn't go well with new dodge mechanics that allows us to cancel casting while dodging and re-cast later.
    I am able to cancel Oppressive Force, Singularity, Ice Storm and Ice knife no problems, and re-cast it right away after dodge. For MoC i loose 50% AP because tooltip says so. Please, consider changing that, otherwise MoC will be the only daily that doesn't work with dodge.
    In addition could we have range of this daily bigger? Oppressive force, ice storm, singu - all have v. nice range. MoC could follow suit. Remember that casting time is very long and movable targets currently can very easy get out of this tiny tiny range, and with current 50% AP loss we cannot even cancel casting to reposition.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
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    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: Critical Conflagration

    Add bonus critical. Rank 3 could give +5% critical chance and maybe give that bonus to the group.
  • someonediessomeonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:
    Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Restore base damage, leave "live" prone duration.

    Brisk Transport Bugged (Or Incorrect Tooltip):
    When you Teleport your Run Speed is increased by 2/4/6/8/10% for 3 seconds.

    Can stack 3 times up to 20-30% run speed for 1-3 sec.
    Rimuru?
    Dead 🔪
  • obsydian666obsydian666 Member Posts: 329 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi, i found some interesting, please players and especialy DEVS LOOK AT THIS VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aMr7X4nsb8

    -show me reason why you nerf shard so much? becouse as you can see on video it deals 1,5- max 7k crit ? average is 2/3k dmg crit and non crit. Now after your nerf it will be maby 500 dmg?
    -show me our powerful single target dps which you also nerf- look at 6:15 - 740 ice knife d(-.-)b and later 7:16 - Icy Rays deals 87 dmg from critical strike. Compare all of this with GWF IBS which can hit for even 20k-this is sick
    -look on our survivability, we are paper as hell, please look on scoreboard after match- the result is dazzling...
    Tell me how should we fight against another classes if our single target dmg is already broken? This video perfectly show how weak in pvp is CW and you don't do anything to change it and what's more you are nerfing us. I dont know is that role of all CW- we have to be pvp meat or you dont know anything about your own game? pathetic guys, realy pathetic.
  • sokolnichiysokolnichiy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi, i found some interesting, please players and especialy DEVS LOOK AT THIS VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aMr7X4nsb8

    -show me reason why you nerf shard so much? becouse as you can see on video it deals 1,5- max 7k crit ? average is 2/3k dmg crit and non crit. Now after your nerf it will be maby 500 dmg?
    -show me our powerful single target dps which you also nerf- look at 6:15 - 740 ice knife d(-.-)b and later 7:16 - Icy Rays deals 87 dmg from critical strike. Compare all of this with GWF IBS which can hit for even 20k-this is sick
    -look on our survivability, we are paper as hell, please look on scoreboard after match- the result is dazzling...
    Tell me how should we fight against another classes if our single target dmg is already broken? This video perfectly show how weak in pvp is CW and you don't do anything to change it and what's more you are nerfing us. I dont know is that role of all CW- we have to be pvp meat or you dont know anything about your own game? pathetic guys, realy pathetic.

    OH GOSH! My eyes ((( dat weird fisheye effect...for pete's sake why someone use this shiiiiiiat when making video. My eyes hurt so much i can not focus properly.

    However numbers can be seen clearly and indeed, there is nothing op it such damage compared to non stop charging GWF and GF overpowered constant attacks.

    It's good when you are all doing dungeon and GWF or GF have high survivability and damage thas mostly ok cause you are chalenging AI not other players.

    But in pvp SUCH numbers cause MUCH pain in da *** WOW...
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi, i found some interesting, please players and especialy DEVS LOOK AT THIS VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aMr7X4nsb8

    -show me reason why you nerf shard so much? becouse as you can see on video it deals 1,5- max 7k crit ? average is 2/3k dmg crit and non crit. Now after your nerf it will be maby 500 dmg?
    -show me our powerful single target dps which you also nerf- look at 6:15 - 740 ice knife d(-.-)b and later 7:16 - Icy Rays deals 87 dmg from critical strike. Compare all of this with GWF IBS which can hit for even 20k-this is sick
    -look on our survivability, we are paper as hell, please look on scoreboard after match- the result is dazzling...
    Tell me how should we fight against another classes if our single target dmg is already broken? This video perfectly show how weak in pvp is CW and you don't do anything to change it and what's more you are nerfing us. I dont know is that role of all CW- we have to be pvp meat or you dont know anything about your own game? pathetic guys, realy pathetic.
    you can see gwfs proning. this video is from mod 3. Pallozza who i know he doesnt have the preview is writing in chat guild. however i can be a moment to think about the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage of Savage Advance and the abuse of it with the cleric artifact.
  • hfgtfsdfshfgtfsdfs Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    rayrdan wrote: »
    you can see gwfs proning. this video is from mod 3. Pallozza who i know he doesnt have the preview is writing in chat guild. however i can be a moment to think about the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage of Savage Advance and the abuse of it with the cleric artifact.

    Well he is asking why the shard was nerfed for PvP in the first place since he don't think its OP on live as it is.
    ZengiaH@ejziponken
  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:

    First, I'm disturbed by the philosophy of creating a PVP-specific heroic feat, Focused Wizardry. Does any other class have a feat that buffs PVP play but *harms* PVE play? This feat now becomes the "always correct" option for any PVP CW and the "always wrong" option for any PVE CW. If we're going to go down the path of creating feats that are PVE-specific and PVP-specific, then why not just make the existing feats have dual purposes, one for PVP and one for PVE?

    IMO a better and more elegant solution would be to have buffs to single-target encounters via a class feature, such as Storm Fury (which nobody uses now anyway). By choosing a single-target-specific class feature, CWs would be sacrificing the ability to deal more AOE damage by not slotting an AOE-specific class feature (e.g., Evocation). Furthermore, doing this via a class feature lets PVE CWs take advantage of this buff to single-target damage in certain specific fights (e.g. Fulminorax in Malabog's Castle) without having it harm them in every other situation, as it would if that CW were to take the Focused Wizardry feat now being contemplated.

    Second, personally, I'm a bit irritated by the change to Focused Wizardry, I chose human for my CW because I wanted to take advantage of all of the heroic AOE damage feats that CWs have, sacrificing a potentially higher INT/WIS/CHA score for it. Now I suppose I will have to put these extra feat points into something less optimal.

    Third, more generally, I would hope that Crush and the other devs would realize that the PVP community here is actually rather small, and the PVP CW community is a rather small subset of that. Please do not nerf/buff CWs for the 90% that play PVE, on the basis of the feedback of the 10% who PVP but are overrepresented on the forums. Also, please do not give in to the demands of PVPers from other classes who claim that this or that change is "OP", using disingenuous arguments (such as the proposed changes to Shield), when all they are really interested in is keeping THEIR class on top and all others on bottom.
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lococatt91 wrote: »
    Storm spell
    I thought this class ability now had an ICD, meaning if its 10% or 35% it could still only proc once per so many seconds.
    Am I mistaken?

    I'm looking at an ACT parse, and I can see no ICD. It proc's multiple times per second in some cases (on the same target). So 10%->35% activation odds change and double the damage looks like 7* the current damage (with no skill required) - which will exceed all other damage sources in my run (COI-tabbed, Steal Time, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm[feated] as a Thaum). This really takes very little skill to stack chill and watch Storm Spell proc.
  • lococatt91lococatt91 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 162 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Thanks for checking it out Kiera.
    I was on preview and Storm spell seemed to only proc once per 10sec or so, but, this was a couple weeks ago so it obviously changed.

    I wonder if a Bile enchant might be way to go now. Abilities are not hitting as hard (so vorp less useful), but a Dot build would be great if it proced storm and assailing.
  • adamy2004adamy2004 Member Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Feedback:

    First, I'm disturbed by the philosophy of creating a PVP-specific heroic feat, Focused Wizardry. Does any other class have a feat that buffs PVP play but *harms* PVE play? This feat now becomes the "always correct" option for any PVP CW and the "always wrong" option for any PVE CW. If we're going to go down the path of creating feats that are PVE-specific and PVP-specific, then why not just make the existing feats have dual purposes, one for PVP and one for PVE?

    IMO a better and more elegant solution would be to have buffs to single-target encounters via a class feature, such as Storm Fury (which nobody uses now anyway). By choosing a single-target-specific class feature, CWs would be sacrificing the ability to deal more AOE damage by not slotting an AOE-specific class feature (e.g., Evocation). Furthermore, doing this via a class feature lets PVE CWs take advantage of this buff to single-target damage in certain specific fights (e.g. Fulminorax in Malabog's Castle) without having it harm them in every other situation, as it would if that CW were to take the Focused Wizardry feat now being contemplated.

    Second, personally, I'm a bit irritated by the change to Focused Wizardry, I chose human for my CW because I wanted to take advantage of all of the heroic AOE damage feats that CWs have, sacrificing a potentially higher INT/WIS/CHA score for it. Now I suppose I will have to put these extra feat points into something less optimal.

    Third, more generally, I would hope that Crush and the other devs would realize that the PVP community here is actually rather small, and the PVP CW community is a rather small subset of that. Please do not nerf/buff CWs for the 90% that play PVE, on the basis of the feedback of the 10% who PVP but are overrepresented on the forums. Also, please do not give in to the demands of PVPers from other classes who claim that this or that change is "OP", using disingenuous arguments (such as the proposed changes to Shield), when all they are really interested in is keeping THEIR class on top and all others on bottom.

    what do you think the end-game in this game is? endlessly farming dungeons till you get max gear? then what, you challenge yourself and do pvp. pvp is where cryptic gains most of their money, from pvp players who do not want to pve and use their money to buy zen to gear out their characters.

    and do you see PvP players complain about pve? no because we have to endlessly farm your stupid dungeons in order to progress, be it gear, money (if we dont p2w) and to progress through the campaigns. so please kindly remove yourself from this forum.
    Don't waste my time.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Feedback:

    If we're going to go down the path of creating feats that are PVE-specific and PVP-specific, then why not just make the existing feats have dual purposes, one for PVP and one for PVE?


    This would be the all around simplest solution but not just for feats but for all skills , feats , boons etc , gentlemancrush can try as much as he wants but while he has to balance skills , feats etc around two completely different game types he will simply never get anywhere , pve changes will impact pvp and vise versa the way he is currently trying to balance skills is just far too complicated . Plus it would be better for players , they could have two separate loadouts ,one for pve and one for pvp which you could swap at the push of a button .
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  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    adamy2004 wrote: »
    what do you think the end-game in this game is? endlessly farming dungeons till you get max gear? then what, you challenge yourself and do pvp. pvp is where cryptic gains most of their money, from pvp players who do not want to pve and use their money to buy zen to gear out their characters.

    and do you see PvP players complain about pve? no because we have to endlessly farm your stupid dungeons in order to progress, be it gear, money (if we dont p2w) and to progress through the campaigns. so please kindly remove yourself from this forum.
    And this, right here, is why PvPers have such a lousy reputation.
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  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    feedback
    orb of imposition cc duration is to long on players.
  • isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
  • sv3t1anasv3t1ana Banned Users Posts: 69
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:


    Thank you for making them a Actual Control class, now reduce their damage and let them be the way they was ment to, as they are on Tabletop...
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    orb of imposition cc duration is to long on players.
    Orb of Imposition being Control Wizard's feature should work like that -- otherwise it has no difference than other classes and you can't call it Control Wizard. Besides, GWF gets insane 3 seconds stun.

    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
    it might be right to say the devs dont care about pvp balance.
    You want to keep melee classes' gap closer and nerf ranged classes' gap creator? Then GWF's sprint speed needs to be reduced too. And making GWF immune to cc via Unstoppable is already canon-breaking, its sprint should not further grant cc immunity.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
    it might be right to say the devs dont care about pvp balance.

    go back to your own class you don't have a word for continuing arguing anything and especially since assailalnt nerf and shield nerf announced 1 week ago are not in the previous yet + repel have actually many bug and only work on fiew case (even in live ) + i'm tired of **** player that come complain against other class without playing it simply because the faced one of the fiew top player or because they want to win 100%. a fair build is something that you lose 50% of the time not a 100% win. ANd when you make contest with some high competitor doN,t blame engine blame the pilot first

    edit what are you playing GF that have skill to do 25k in one shot ? GWF that have 2 control skill that have 3 second stun (actually we have only 2 spell that can give the same in pvp and only with orb) HR that actually have a regen that surpass any of our actual damage capacity without the last annouced change + a guy that play with repel mean you are not in icy terrain so assaillant can only proc once every 20 repel
This discussion has been closed.