As a TR and GF, I personally think Shield should stay the way it is. CW's have to sacrifice their Mastery slot for a defensive encounter that offers zero offensive capabilities. It's a fair trade if I dare say so myself, with all the math and situational theorycrafting aside.
Besides, no matter what CWs do they will never have Control Immunity unlike us TRs, GFs, GWFs and HRs. Not right now at least. No matter how much defense a person has in PVP, control is still king. The 15% increase in Control Resistance will help, but it doesn't break the CW's problem that they are prone to getting perma-CCed.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share a few more changes that will be hitting in the next week or two.
We still want Wizards to feel like a viable DPS class while they are specced into Thaumatuge (and a bit more group utility focused in Renegade) so we are making some buffs to feats in those trees to reinforce that.
Thaumaturge:
Transcended Master: Shard of the Endless Avalanche now deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage (up from 2/4/6/8/10%). Icy Rays now deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage when used on a single target (up from 2/4/6/8/10%) and has a 1/2/3/4/5 second shorter cooldown if used on two different targets (up from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5).
Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics now deals 100% of Weapon Damage each tick (up from 50%). Creeping Frost now deals 170% of Weapon Damage each tick (up from 85%).
Assailing Force: ICD reduced to 5 seconds (down from 15 seconds).
Renegade:
Nightmare Wizardry: When you critically strike a foe you have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) to grant you and your allies Combat Advantage against the target for 12 seconds.
Phantasmal Destruction: Now has a 40% chance to activate (up from 25%).
Chaos Magic: Chaotic Nexus now grants 10% Armor Penetration and Critical Chance (up from 5%).
Chaos Magic: Chaotic Fury now grants 10% increased damage and 5% direct Life Steal (rather than adjusting your stats).
These changes should move much more of the performance into the feat trees, allowing Wizards to use their feats to more accurately define their performance and style of play.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I don't remember seeing these changes put into the patch notes on the week they were announced, although some of them were already implemented such as the cd reduction on assailant.
The tooltip on Elemental Empowerment hasn't been updated so I'm wondering if that change went through?
Shard of endless avalanche needs a drastic buff. the prone time on players is not worth the next to 75% damage loss.
heres an example. you put sheild on your tab so all incoming hits are -40% less dmg, then they are effected by your DR and tenacity. so incoming hits are then 80% less or so. and that is up 100% of the time.
---in lets say a 1 minute fight vs gwf.
shard has a 12s cooldown prones for only 4seconds and does like 1-2k crits.
so if you land that boulder on the targets head, and you blow it up for the maximum amount of time. in that 1 minute fight they are cc'd for 20s and the damage done from boulder is about 8-10k (over a minute this dmg would be easily negated by unstoppable recovery + heroic duelists set and regen)
and the remainder 40s the gwf is most likely in unstoppable/sprinting cant be CC'd and is beating on you in full force.
12k ibs, 5k takedown 8k frontline (1 rotation back every 15s or so) x4 in the minute = cw dead
2k boulder 4k chillstrike 4k icy rays 1k entangle (1 rotation back every 13s) x4/5 in the minute = 20% of the gwf health gone.
(for cws with assailing force. a 4k hit every 5 seconds or 48k dmg)
now what is more effective. turning a gwfs 25k rotation into 5k (shield) or proning a target for 4s and the hit equating to nothing.
your reasoning for nerfing shard was because it was "too good" it was the best for pvp and the best for pve. but you are replacing it with something that provides even MORE protection against damage and giving us assailing force which is probably better damage because it cant be resisted against.
the only way to prevent Control wizards from just running around in shield, facetank everything and kill people with assailing force is to bring back a large amount of damage on shard of endless avalanche. it would remove the need to run with shield in a rotation, return skillful gameplay to the class (because you need to land the shard on players for it to be most effective) and other classes (gwf/trs) would again have a chance to kill us.
Shard being nerfed does suck, but I understand where they are coming from. They are trying to remove prones from PvP. Many skills that proned no longer prone but stun players now. This was their way of removing trying to remove it from the CW, except we still will have the option to not only prone players, but aoe prone. Its a huge sacrifice in damage to gain the cc. We are now having to choose one or the other.
My biggest problem is that AOE spells still do more single target damage than many single target spells.
While testing an oppressor build for my cw at preview,i noticed that freeze wasn't working properly on Yetis and would break when they took damage from me. After latest fix, I haven't seen anything similar on other enemies(tested at IWD) and thought i report it.
Edit: It has been suggested in other posts that it is CC resistance of enemies in IWD that breaks freeze. If that's the case then it isn't a bug and seems that Yetis have very high CC resistance.However if that's the case then Cws should have some way of bypassing or penetrating a portion of enemies cc immunities , since they are now more control focused rather than damage. Perhaps if you were to ad a CC resistance ignore feature at Orb of Imposition?
Shard being nerfed does suck, but I understand where they are coming from. They are trying to remove prones from PvP. Many skills that proned no longer prone but stun players now. This was their way of removing trying to remove it from the CW, except we still will have the option to not only prone players, but aoe prone. Its a huge sacrifice in damage to gain the cc. We are now having to choose one or the other.
My biggest problem is that AOE spells still do more single target damage than many single target spells.
I don't want it to hit for 14k, all i ask is a decent 4/5k ...just not a 1k crit.
The 60% nerf/overkill is def. too much for an encounter that 2/10 of the players can land properly in a domination match.
It is not an auto-target spell, it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it.
Virus, Enemy Team.
0
dingleberrytruthMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 25Arc User
I needed shield because Icewind Dale enemies have very high control resist. They break out of freeze very quickly and can do truckloads of damage before I'm able to freeze them again. From parses the Deathlock Wrights can hit for 10 - 13k with 25% damage resistance. A pack of three of them is lethal if they all break freeze at the same time.
Live or Preview, I don't use CoI/IT for its 'freezing' when soloing HEs. It's for lifesteal to sustain me till the cooldown of my actual dps encounters. Freezes are just icing for me.
Granted soloing HEs with deathlock wights would cause me to pot occasionally.
Then again I do use Endless Consumption and Severe Reaction.
Which brings to point. Dodging attacks also procs Severe Reaction. Is that going to be nerf/fixed too?
Feedback: Thaumaturge, Renegade, and Oppressor Paths
Since the latest patch I've now done several Herioc Encounters in Icewind Dale with builds in all three trees. Beforehand I tested several builds in each tree to find the best balance of control and damage for each. Then I ran HE's over and over with each to see how they stacked up.
With the Thaumaturge tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 20-24k DPS range. I can usually complete mid-level HE's, though I will die a few times. This tree path tends to be the quickest since Assailant does the best single-target damage of any of the trees. The boss will go down the fastest with this tree. Damage output seems appropriate since it is about a 40-50% reduction from my live character.
With the Renegade tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 18-22k DPS range. I am able to complete HE's but would die a fair amount. It's a hair behind Thaumaturge in solo play but would definitely be better if there were more people with me as all of them would have benefited from Nightmare Wizardry and Chaos Magic whereas Thaumaturge doesn't provide any group buffs. Combat advantage mostly makes up for the damage difference Thaumaturge's have from Assailing Force/Creeping Frost/Warped Magic in AoE situations, but it lags behind in single-target damage. Assailant is just too good there.
The Oppressor build lags behind a little in damage doing consistently 15-18k DPS. These encounters did go a little smoother as I tended to die less. It gave a bit better control with the stuns from Shatter. But it wasn't that big of a difference. Now that Freeze has been fixed so that it doesn't break with damage a Thaumaturge or Renegade can slot Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, and Orb Of Imposition (and can also grab Chilling Control from the Oppressor tree for Sudden Storm if they want) and get 90% of the control an Oppressor has while doing better damage. The difference in control will be negligible in a dungeon run as the low control resist of most enemies will make them frozen sitting ducks for the party to hammer and they likely won't live long enough to be stunned by Shatter. The Shatter stun will be superfluous.
While I was most likely to choose the Oppressor tree a few weeks ago now I doubt I will since every tree can control very, very well with the right spells and passives slotted. Thaumaturge will be the most versatile class - will do good AoE damage, good damage to single targets, and will be by far the most viable PvP choice. Renegade will be perfectly fine solo but won't be as good as Thaumaturge in single-target situations which includes PvP. It will be for people who want smoother/faster dungeon runs where they help out the party more. Oppressor won't be picked much. The control is great, but it's more control than than is needed in most situations and I think most will opt for a significant bump in damage in exchange for the little extra control Shatter gives.
I did a half an hour test run on Sharandar and İcewind Pass.
Ability layout: Ice Storm+Oppressive Force.... Tab: Chill Strike Encounters: Sudden Storm+ıcy Terrain+Steal Time
Some notes that I want to specially mention. Shard of Endless Avalanche: This spell does no longer belong to my rotation. As a CW who's used to 30-40k crits wtih shard, current damage (even with evocation and T4 thaum feat) is lower then 10k. I believe 4 second stun doesnt make it up for the damage nerf in PVE. We have better alternatives for control now.
Assailant: Extremely satisfied with this feat, can deal more damage then my encounters. Since the direction of new PVE content is towards fewer but stroger adds, this is very useful, can compensate AOE damage nerfs to a degree provided new content continues to follow this trend. (of which I support) Frozen: The change to frozen effect is easily noticable and welcomed. Icy terrain: Damage is insignificant but with the utility it brings to my rotation it replaced underperforming Shard indefinitely. Faster ticks plus frozen not breaking greatly helps thaum wizards to keep adds at bay in solo play, 4 second shard prone is not necessary. Not to mention storm spell and assailant procs. One thing though, not being able to cast it afar forces us to be on the front line, which is not a position I prefer in dungeons. Since GFs probably will get all the aggro, I may be forced to stand next to them to freeze adds rushing to them. I believe it should be at least a mid-ranged encounter, not personal burst.
My conclusion is spell storm thaum is nowhere close to being dead. I lost approximately %40-50 of my AOE damage and I may not be topping paingiver in mod 4 but I'm fine with that. However assailant will shine in solo content (I soloed HE's pretty easily, even bear riders burn down in a few seconds) and not add infested content like kessel and lair lastmauth. The feat is working fine, longer cooldown or lower damage will absolutely break it. It's not needed anyway since it's %50 effective in PVP.
Make the current tabbed version of this power be the normal version, and in the tab the area effect is doubled.
I don't feel like putting this on tab slot because the location issue seems to be "easily" solved by just walking to the target location. It just don't feel worth like a tab mechanic... for me, at least; looks more like a QoL change. I can do much more with other tabbed powers than Icy Terrain currently.
Steal Time and Sudden Storm already have this mechanic that you have to walk to the target and then use the power, and it already feels very unfun for a ranged class.
(´･ ω ･`)
0
lcwwpyjhjsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback : Weapon Artifact
Not relevant, but how could this At-Will bonus benefit Ray of Frost?
Continuous of casting Ray of frost in live server only required 3.7-3.8sec total till fully freeze (On a Thaumaturge Feat without Glacial Movement feat)
The additional stack of chill after 1sec might be useful, but it will even further reduce the total time until freeze status with only 3.1sec required. 2nd bonus after 4sec of continuous casting Ray of Frost brings no beneficial at all.
Hi all, i've been testing extensively on preview and have to admit that Sudden Storm feels lacking somewhat. It's damage is nerfed, it's cooldown increased but its area of effect hasn't been increased to compensate. With the chilling control feat you get 5 stacks of chill,however you have to consider that it takes precise aiming to fully utilize it and a feat slot for the chill effect. All in all i would ask to consider increasing its width radius,maybe to a larger cone, so that it's easier to aim it. I'm not really concerned about the distance it travels since i always get upclose and personal with monsters,but in order for it to function as a control power more a wide area of effect is needed. In the past its high damage output justified the pain of aiming,but not any more even when tabbed. As for Icy Terrain ,since it's more of a utility spell rather than a damage one, i would ask you to increase its effect radius by at least 50% - 60% and,if you must, nerf its damage to balance it. I only use it to freeze things anyway and i suspect the same for other cws too
I don't want it to hit for 14k, all i ask is a decent 4/5k ...just not a 1k crit.
The 60% nerf/overkill is def. too much for an encounter that 2/10 of the players can land properly in a domination match.
It is not an auto-target spell, it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it.
This exactly! don't ruin shard in pvp and give us some of our damage back..
- [Tempzy]
0
charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback - Shatter Strike
With the redevelopment of the freeze, the feat shatter strike should also to be remodeled. Should increase the freezing time and provide armor check penalty due to the heat shock.
Immune targets should take constant damage from the burns caused by the cold.
I agree with v1rus89, silpharian93 and all the other CWs that posted about the nerf on the shard.
The shard is the absolute hardest encounter to use for a CW in PvP. It should do some damage (on TABB) when it requires so much skill, timing and precision to use.
Repel and Shield push effect can STILL be deflected.
When Shield is tabbed, it doesn't seem to reduce the CC durations.
I currently don't know why would someone use Magic Missiles, since it's inferior/unusable for any situation, single target or AoE, with the target in control immune or not, high DR or low DR. I'd like to ask the devs to reconsider about the nerf that was deployed to this, or think about a way to make Ray of Frost, Chilling Cloud, Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst be less interesting for single target, or make Magic Missiles be more interesting to be used on control immune/high DR targets.
CW have NO damage. That's basically the long and short of it. Every useful encounter, every at will that isn't complete s**t, all our feats heroic feats have been reduced to a FRACTION OF HEROIC FEATS OF OTHER CLASSES, shield has been re-nufed and now it's impossible to 1v1 any class and make it a winning fight, (it's ALWAYS A LOSING FIGHT), aswell as having the MAX HIT OF ANY ATTACK THAT I'VE DONE BE A 4000 crit ice knife, with many damage bonuses WITH 3x plaguefire & 2x RoE debuff.
This may or may not be a post made in anger, but the CW has no place playing PvP in mod4 if these bias changes are made. Every damage bonus heroic feat has been nurfed to almost half, while the heroic feats of EVERY... OTHER... CLASS remains the same.... Not to mention the nurfs on all the encounter and at will abilities, THAT HIT ONE TARGET AT A TIME and not multiple targets, which is why CWs are so op in dungeons right now. WE NEVER HAD THE SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE TO COMPETE WITH ANY OTHER CLASS AND NOW IT'S EVEN LESS SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE. Assailing Force now deals a whopping 3k on most players, and our encounters deal 1-3k now, compared to the massive hits done by other players. It's just like CWs in mod3 struggling and giving up playing because how hard it is to actually play a CW. I'd bet that if any of the devs logged onto my character on the preview and tried to fight a few random people they would lose every time, and not because they don't even play the game... CWs have always been the under-dog and it's only more obvious with the Mod4 changes, and the devs made it more obvious when they reduced almost all single target damage, while leaving multi target damage much more intact. It's simply not fair to the few remaining serious PvPers who still like the CW class and now are basically told, "So guys we decided to make the CW less effective in dungeons and more in-line with other classes! -Chill strike nurf, Entangling force nurf, Magic missile nurf-" --Because EVERYone uses those types of abilities in dungeons, that have almost 20 mobs per area, and those abilities affect one thing at a time. It's frankly disgusting from a players point of view how obscene and short-sighted a majority of the nurfs have been.
All single target abilities need to be how they are on live, and even on live, they don't do nearly as much damage as the other classes. And all the multi target abilities should get nurfed. (just kidding shard of endless avalanche already got put into the grave lol)
This probably was just a rage post but it's defiantly right on the mark when it comes to what you devs have done with the class lol
-Almost the same in dungeons
-Worse in PvP then mod3
-All around depressing to continue to play this class
-Can't be arsed to try and lug it along like GF's lugged along in mod2/3
Two(and a half) things that can be done to make CWs playable and enjoyable
-take away the single target damage nurfs to ablities commonly used in PvP (they are horse s**t and have no reason to be used anymore besides leveling up to 60)
-reduce the damage on abilities commonly used in PvE to overpower the other classes with AoE damage
-make it so we can rely on our encounters again instead of a single (nurfed) feat (assailing force)
Shield will go down to retaining 25% of its effectiveness while destabilized. It dose this in 1 step in normal slots and 2 steps in Mastery Slots.
Feedback: Shield
This change reverts it back to useless. When I give up my mastery slot I'm giving up more than 25% of my potential damage output. I'm not going to trade out an attacking encounter for Shield unless it increases my survivability more than it reduces my damage. Also, I'm giving up more than 25% of my incoming lifesteal by taking an attacking encounter off tab.
CW's are still punching bags on the preview server. Log on as a CW and head over to the PvP area of Icewind Pass and see for yourself.
Here's a thread started yesterday by GWF's upset about how bad they are in PvP in Mod 4 with videos as evidence.
Most of this is due to gentlemancrush making changes to the CW based on feedback from GWF/GF who obviously have ulterior motives , he buffs something , GWF/GF see that they aren't as effective or efficient against CW anymore so they come here and whine he renerfs ,its idiotic.
Now some GWF have started whining they want Takedown to be given back it's prone , who's willing to bet gentlemancrush caves in and pampers to them?
This was pretty disappointing to see. As soon as CW's became competitive with GWF's, they leap into our thread and get things re-nerfed.
The fact that people were now complaining about getting killed 1v1 by a CW told me that they were moving in the right direction. It actually gave me hope I'd be able to PvP more on my CW without feeling like I was weighing the team down.
People of classes that have infinite Deflection and infinite Control Immune state and amazing survivability powers are upset because there's a power that reduces the damage received by a class that takes brutal damage by 35%.
The fun part is that the other classes have damage and we don't. In other words, the difference between the Shield pre-nerf and the Shield post-nerf is that before we could stay alive without being able to do nothing, and after we can't stay alive, unable to do nothing.
And to add to this, Renegade is the ultimate looser. Speaking of which:
- minimize EotS ICD, to help Renegade's DPS. No CW who is used to DPS through crit+cha+CA will become buffy! They will simply switch to the one and only DPS tree.
- or give Renegades kind of specialization that will allow them to cast encounters, at wills and dailies significantly faster then other trees (by reducing ICD, CD and casting time).
For CWs in general regardless of tree chosen:
- empower single target spells (for PvP purposes).
- make Shard damage significant again (for PvP).
- if you nerf shield, at least make it reflect some damage. This is really ridiculous that GF chock full of HP has reflecting damage skill, and squishy CW has nothing of this sort.If I remember well, D&D wizards have two shields (blue and red), both reflecting some portion of damage to the attackers. Make normal shield blue, tabbed one red.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Okay but there's this thing that I don't understand about the nerf in Magic Missiles...
Currently, Magic Missiles is the best choice for single-target damage, since it stacks Arcane Mastery and has a good performance. For AoE situations, Chilling Cloud is better.
But, in any situation, Chilling Cloud is currently better for Thaumaturge and Oppressor due to Chill stacking benefits, debuffs and Frozen Power Transfer, and here is my doubt. Why was Magic Missiles nerfed and Chilling Cloud buffed?
This nerf is even more strange when you think about the other Paragon Path's at-wills, because they have more interesting mechanics in comparison to Magic Missiles and deal even more damage on single-target damage after this nerf, making the Magic Missiles not being the best choice for any situation.
AFAIK only the last 2 hits of Magic Missiles weren't properly benefiting of Armor Penetration, which is 24% less damage for these hits, but the OVERALL damage of this power was reduced by 33%; it's not only 9% overflowed nerf, but it also decreases the damage of the other 3 hits that weren't buffed.
Is there any reason for this nerf that I didn't consider? Why was Magic Missiles nerfed if other powers can be used replacing it with almost no difference?
(´･ ω ･`)
0
charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited July 2014
Suggestion:
I still think the master slot should be reworked. It should work as follows:
- It enables the use of an energy bar that recharges slowly passively.
- When activated all skills change dramatically becoming stronger in return doubles the cast time in using them.
- The secret is to be patient and use the power at the right time.
- Loss of energy bar can not be stopped at the end starts charging again.
Feedback:
Modify the following feats
Controlling Action: Gain 1/2/3/4/5% of your total Action Point when using powers on a controlled target. (10 second cooldown)
Fight On: Encounter fixed cooldowns reduced by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Battlewise: Increases your damage by 1/2/3% per Arcane Mastery stack (5 stacks = +30%)
Wizard's Wrath: Armor penetration bonus by 3/6/9%
Blighting Power: Chill reduces the target deflection by 1/2/3% per stack
Lightning Teleport: Consumption of stamina to teleport reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Arcane Enhancement: Arcane Mastery stack lasts longer 0.5/1.5/2.5 seconds
Learned Spellcaster: Encounter cast time reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Prestidigitation: You and your allies gain 2/4/6% increased Stat Ratings (does not stack)
Focused Wizardry: Chance to ignore immunity to control by 3/6/9%
Read the Rules. Do not discuss moderation. If you took less time ranting and more time being observant, you'd see we moved over 200 posts to the Discussion thread, where they belong. You should read the Sticky too. We never "delete" anything, all records of post moved and edits have permanent records. ~Zeb
What was giving us a little chance in live server (a really little) was armor pen feat and debuf spell (and that in thauma or renegade way). Without that buff dammage are already cut by 3 or even 4 on live server. Since they practicaly taking it all + reducing damage around 15 to 30 % on single target we are doing 30-40% of damage now.
let take a fight in live server between a GF or GWF with 80% dr (yes sentinel can goes to more than 80% with inflexible). 1 if you have entrengling force it do 0 damage against control immun target). let make count on thauma way with a classic and consider the best for the CW (spell not block by all instant control encounter on GF or GWF). default ice knife, ray of enfeeblisment in tab, ice conduct, let say steal time and chill strike for damage. base damage on my character in same order 12K,6K, 4K,4K,6K. alos lvl 9 spell plague enchant
with 15% armor pen and the fact that arcane spell reduce armor 10% more (t4 feat of thauma) you get in this order.
(ice knife usable only once)
1 ice conduct: 4k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.2(tenacity))= 1.12 K
2 ray : 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.15+0.1)*(1-0.2 )*(1.15+1.15)= 2.8 k
3 second ray: (most of time i see that both in live and test server second ray do 0 damage): 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.3+0.15)*(1.45)=5.22K
4 ice knife: 12K *(1-0.8+0.3+0.15)*(1-0.2)*1.45=10.44K
5 and 6 give an extra summ of 8.7. mean your doing at all 28k dammage mean to shot a GF and GWF with 80 DR you need if he let you strike 2 full roll of spell to shot him (40K life) 30 second.. here that the best without blocking or dodging or be controled or interrupt even once + ice knife charged (practicaly 50% damage here) mean without ice knife = 18k roll
now let see in test server with same spell.
ice knife do 11k base, ray: 4K, ice conduct:3K, steal time 6K, and chill strike:4k let also say that with the actual statment assaillant will proc once per 10 second (here is best since it's the minimal time that it can proc)
same fight.
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 second ray.4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 2.7k
4 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 7.37 K
5 the rest: 6.7K damage and add 1 assaillant for 4 k: =17.61 k + 4 k = 21k at all. and 14K without ice knife: mean 45 second to kill without any dodge or anything nore any life back.
with new shield slotted in tab
taking same other spell just replace chill strike with ray (couting assaillant proc same once per roll)
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 6.5 K
4 steal time: 6k*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15:3.5K
total 12.5k with ice knife +4k from assaillant: 16.5k without ice knife: 10K dammage mean 1 min to kill a passive player
know let see the other side. since def haven't change from live server and test server without shield it pretty the same.
1 all GF and GWF have at least 1 feat that provide 0.1 DR reduce+ let say a terror enchant lvl 9 and same 15% Dr ignore
A wizard can have at best 30% dr. mean only the first shot will have 5% dr left rest is 100% damage* 0.8 for tenacity
with a mere 6K medium feat damage it give
first shot: 6K *(1-0.05)*(1-0.8):4.56K
rest :4.8k
daily : 12k = 9.6
total: 23.76 K (as you can see i do not count any boost dammage to consider a fight against a GF. against GWF you can easely up that by 1.25%). with a 25K or 30K PV CW; your are near or already dead if even one crit (since we have 0 deflect value)
with shield and against a player that do not strike with at will to reduce damage it give
4.56*(1-0.8):0.912k
4.8*(1-0.5):2.4k
4.8*(1-0.25):3.6k
9.6*(1-0.25):7.2k
=14k and since shield will not reup after first roll, second role also do 3.6k each mean 10.8k . mean we are dead in 2 roll of encounter.
And since our at will do less damage we canno't hope anything from there too.
PS in GF case with there 30 second up shield we will be dead before we can control them with shield down and since we don't have any control immun we are already dead before doing any spell.
With on live server we already have hard time with a ratio of 20-25 second to kill vs 15 second for other due to control immun.
now on previous server we need twice the time we needed in live server with nothing else change for control or anything else.
Even with the 50% last shield lvl we were at disavatage but not an unpassable one
Edit:
in all that" i took each time the best case for CW but practically always min case for opponent
CW players have been giving feedbacks for over a month now and didn't get a single answer from the devs.
Isn't the whole point of this thread to create a form of comunication between players and devs about how to fix the class and make it still viable in pve and pvp?
It certainly doesen't feel like it at all.
You guys keep ignoring us and in less than a month the new module goes live.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche should do more damage when slotted on tab. If necessary, this can be bonus damage against players only to prevent damage from rising too much in PvE environments. In PvP, it is usually used against a single target at a time, and its current damage output is quite pitiful.
CW single-target damage skills need to be brought up a little. These are mostly not used for PvE anyway. While it's understandable if you want to give a more distinct feel to CWs being high control, lower on damage, particularly with Scourge Warlocks in play, the current damage levels are a little too low, especially with Assailing Force fixed and feats and utility powers like Eye of the Storm also toned down.
The Shield boost is nice, but it mostly remains a bit of a trap option, especially after being pared down. Using it will just further cut damage and control, which may be a necessary trade-off, but it also means a double whammy in terms of damage reduction when put on top of the existing reductions to single-target power damage.
Exactly.
Give us something to work with first and then we can talk about the Feat fixes for the different trees.
I still think the master slot should be reworked. It should work as follows:
- It enables the use of an energy bar that recharges slowly passively.
- When activated all skills change dramatically becoming stronger in return doubles the cast time in using them.
- The secret is to be patient and use the power at the right time.
- Loss of energy bar can not be stopped at the end starts charging again.
No. Leave Mastery alone.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
So, I have tested all imaginable PvP CW builds for both Spellstorm Mage and Master of Flame against all 6 classes. My conclusion: as of today, there is no viable PvP CW build.
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Critical Power: *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Switch Energy Recovery with the new Critical Power in the Renegade tree (after these reworks).
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage on TAB (like Icy Rays).
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
I just wanted to say that I agree with these changes.
/ ZengiaH PvP CW from Disrespect (former Enemy Team)
Meldan i just have to correct you, upping damage will not change a thing, you can double damage for CW it will only lead to actual situation a mere glass canon. it s the whole mechanic class that not feat with PVP.
Before they renerf shield and cut by half damage from assaillant. thauma way was near a good PVP class and only little adjust were needed for this way even if the build was a lonely config build, it was existing.
For oppressor way, they should have at least one CC that can break CC immun and have other control that don t take many second to activate
And for renegade should have a real party buff debuf tree that can really help party.
Also for all class we should have at least some spell that not take this long to be launch so we have a way to avoid interrupt in some way. we also need a real mechanism like other class to avoid control for some period of time since we have no way to escape or avoid fight.
But all that have been said so many time that is again useless post.
EDIT: Most of the CW community have left, fiew still remain and none of them want to continue test on the actual statment of CW, we don t care if there is bug or not since we don t want to play this class anymore on V4. we are only 4 or 5 CW player that continue trying to have a playable class, but our energy is limited
Comments
Besides, no matter what CWs do they will never have Control Immunity unlike us TRs, GFs, GWFs and HRs. Not right now at least. No matter how much defense a person has in PVP, control is still king. The 15% increase in Control Resistance will help, but it doesn't break the CW's problem that they are prone to getting perma-CCed.
I don't remember seeing these changes put into the patch notes on the week they were announced, although some of them were already implemented such as the cd reduction on assailant.
The tooltip on Elemental Empowerment hasn't been updated so I'm wondering if that change went through?
twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
#BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
heres an example. you put sheild on your tab so all incoming hits are -40% less dmg, then they are effected by your DR and tenacity. so incoming hits are then 80% less or so. and that is up 100% of the time.
---in lets say a 1 minute fight vs gwf.
shard has a 12s cooldown prones for only 4seconds and does like 1-2k crits.
so if you land that boulder on the targets head, and you blow it up for the maximum amount of time. in that 1 minute fight they are cc'd for 20s and the damage done from boulder is about 8-10k (over a minute this dmg would be easily negated by unstoppable recovery + heroic duelists set and regen)
and the remainder 40s the gwf is most likely in unstoppable/sprinting cant be CC'd and is beating on you in full force.
12k ibs, 5k takedown 8k frontline (1 rotation back every 15s or so) x4 in the minute = cw dead
2k boulder 4k chillstrike 4k icy rays 1k entangle (1 rotation back every 13s) x4/5 in the minute = 20% of the gwf health gone.
(for cws with assailing force. a 4k hit every 5 seconds or 48k dmg)
now what is more effective. turning a gwfs 25k rotation into 5k (shield) or proning a target for 4s and the hit equating to nothing.
your reasoning for nerfing shard was because it was "too good" it was the best for pvp and the best for pve. but you are replacing it with something that provides even MORE protection against damage and giving us assailing force which is probably better damage because it cant be resisted against.
the only way to prevent Control wizards from just running around in shield, facetank everything and kill people with assailing force is to bring back a large amount of damage on shard of endless avalanche. it would remove the need to run with shield in a rotation, return skillful gameplay to the class (because you need to land the shard on players for it to be most effective) and other classes (gwf/trs) would again have a chance to kill us.
My biggest problem is that AOE spells still do more single target damage than many single target spells.
While testing an oppressor build for my cw at preview,i noticed that freeze wasn't working properly on Yetis and would break when they took damage from me. After latest fix, I haven't seen anything similar on other enemies(tested at IWD) and thought i report it.
Edit: It has been suggested in other posts that it is CC resistance of enemies in IWD that breaks freeze. If that's the case then it isn't a bug and seems that Yetis have very high CC resistance. However if that's the case then Cws should have some way of bypassing or penetrating a portion of enemies cc immunities , since they are now more control focused rather than damage. Perhaps if you were to ad a CC resistance ignore feature at Orb of Imposition?
I don't want it to hit for 14k, all i ask is a decent 4/5k ...just not a 1k crit.
The 60% nerf/overkill is def. too much for an encounter that 2/10 of the players can land properly in a domination match.
It is not an auto-target spell, it takes a LOT of time and practice to master it.
Live or Preview, I don't use CoI/IT for its 'freezing' when soloing HEs. It's for lifesteal to sustain me till the cooldown of my actual dps encounters. Freezes are just icing for me.
Granted soloing HEs with deathlock wights would cause me to pot occasionally.
Then again I do use Endless Consumption and Severe Reaction.
Which brings to point. Dodging attacks also procs Severe Reaction. Is that going to be nerf/fixed too?
Since the latest patch I've now done several Herioc Encounters in Icewind Dale with builds in all three trees. Beforehand I tested several builds in each tree to find the best balance of control and damage for each. Then I ran HE's over and over with each to see how they stacked up.
With the Thaumaturge tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 20-24k DPS range. I can usually complete mid-level HE's, though I will die a few times. This tree path tends to be the quickest since Assailant does the best single-target damage of any of the trees. The boss will go down the fastest with this tree. Damage output seems appropriate since it is about a 40-50% reduction from my live character.
With the Renegade tree my damage is pretty consistently in the 18-22k DPS range. I am able to complete HE's but would die a fair amount. It's a hair behind Thaumaturge in solo play but would definitely be better if there were more people with me as all of them would have benefited from Nightmare Wizardry and Chaos Magic whereas Thaumaturge doesn't provide any group buffs. Combat advantage mostly makes up for the damage difference Thaumaturge's have from Assailing Force/Creeping Frost/Warped Magic in AoE situations, but it lags behind in single-target damage. Assailant is just too good there.
The Oppressor build lags behind a little in damage doing consistently 15-18k DPS. These encounters did go a little smoother as I tended to die less. It gave a bit better control with the stuns from Shatter. But it wasn't that big of a difference. Now that Freeze has been fixed so that it doesn't break with damage a Thaumaturge or Renegade can slot Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, and Orb Of Imposition (and can also grab Chilling Control from the Oppressor tree for Sudden Storm if they want) and get 90% of the control an Oppressor has while doing better damage. The difference in control will be negligible in a dungeon run as the low control resist of most enemies will make them frozen sitting ducks for the party to hammer and they likely won't live long enough to be stunned by Shatter. The Shatter stun will be superfluous.
While I was most likely to choose the Oppressor tree a few weeks ago now I doubt I will since every tree can control very, very well with the right spells and passives slotted. Thaumaturge will be the most versatile class - will do good AoE damage, good damage to single targets, and will be by far the most viable PvP choice. Renegade will be perfectly fine solo but won't be as good as Thaumaturge in single-target situations which includes PvP. It will be for people who want smoother/faster dungeon runs where they help out the party more. Oppressor won't be picked much. The control is great, but it's more control than than is needed in most situations and I think most will opt for a significant bump in damage in exchange for the little extra control Shatter gives.
I did a half an hour test run on Sharandar and İcewind Pass.
Ability layout: Ice Storm+Oppressive Force.... Tab: Chill Strike Encounters: Sudden Storm+ıcy Terrain+Steal Time
Some notes that I want to specially mention.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: This spell does no longer belong to my rotation. As a CW who's used to 30-40k crits wtih shard, current damage (even with evocation and T4 thaum feat) is lower then 10k. I believe 4 second stun doesnt make it up for the damage nerf in PVE. We have better alternatives for control now.
Assailant: Extremely satisfied with this feat, can deal more damage then my encounters. Since the direction of new PVE content is towards fewer but stroger adds, this is very useful, can compensate AOE damage nerfs to a degree provided new content continues to follow this trend. (of which I support)
Frozen: The change to frozen effect is easily noticable and welcomed.
Icy terrain: Damage is insignificant but with the utility it brings to my rotation it replaced underperforming Shard indefinitely. Faster ticks plus frozen not breaking greatly helps thaum wizards to keep adds at bay in solo play, 4 second shard prone is not necessary. Not to mention storm spell and assailant procs. One thing though, not being able to cast it afar forces us to be on the front line, which is not a position I prefer in dungeons. Since GFs probably will get all the aggro, I may be forced to stand next to them to freeze adds rushing to them. I believe it should be at least a mid-ranged encounter, not personal burst.
My conclusion is spell storm thaum is nowhere close to being dead. I lost approximately %40-50 of my AOE damage and I may not be topping paingiver in mod 4 but I'm fine with that. However assailant will shine in solo content (I soloed HE's pretty easily, even bear riders burn down in a few seconds) and not add infested content like kessel and lair lastmauth. The feat is working fine, longer cooldown or lower damage will absolutely break it. It's not needed anyway since it's %50 effective in PVP.
I don't feel like putting this on tab slot because the location issue seems to be "easily" solved by just walking to the target location. It just don't feel worth like a tab mechanic... for me, at least; looks more like a QoL change. I can do much more with other tabbed powers than Icy Terrain currently.
Steal Time and Sudden Storm already have this mechanic that you have to walk to the target and then use the power, and it already feels very unfun for a ranged class.
Not relevant, but how could this At-Will bonus benefit Ray of Frost?
Continuous of casting Ray of frost in live server only required 3.7-3.8sec total till fully freeze (On a Thaumaturge Feat without Glacial Movement feat)
The additional stack of chill after 1sec might be useful, but it will even further reduce the total time until freeze status with only 3.1sec required.
2nd bonus after 4sec of continuous casting Ray of Frost brings no beneficial at all.
Hi all, i've been testing extensively on preview and have to admit that Sudden Storm feels lacking somewhat. It's damage is nerfed, it's cooldown increased but its area of effect hasn't been increased to compensate. With the chilling control feat you get 5 stacks of chill,however you have to consider that it takes precise aiming to fully utilize it and a feat slot for the chill effect. All in all i would ask to consider increasing its width radius,maybe to a larger cone, so that it's easier to aim it. I'm not really concerned about the distance it travels since i always get upclose and personal with monsters,but in order for it to function as a control power more a wide area of effect is needed. In the past its high damage output justified the pain of aiming,but not any more even when tabbed. As for Icy Terrain ,since it's more of a utility spell rather than a damage one, i would ask you to increase its effect radius by at least 50% - 60% and,if you must, nerf its damage to balance it. I only use it to freeze things anyway and i suspect the same for other cws too
This exactly! don't ruin shard in pvp and give us some of our damage back..
With the redevelopment of the freeze, the feat shatter strike should also to be remodeled. Should increase the freezing time and provide armor check penalty due to the heat shock.
Immune targets should take constant damage from the burns caused by the cold.
The shard is the absolute hardest encounter to use for a CW in PvP. It should do some damage (on TABB) when it requires so much skill, timing and precision to use.
When Shield is tabbed, it doesn't seem to reduce the CC durations.
I currently don't know why would someone use Magic Missiles, since it's inferior/unusable for any situation, single target or AoE, with the target in control immune or not, high DR or low DR. I'd like to ask the devs to reconsider about the nerf that was deployed to this, or think about a way to make Ray of Frost, Chilling Cloud, Storm Pillar and Scorching Burst be less interesting for single target, or make Magic Missiles be more interesting to be used on control immune/high DR targets.
CW have NO damage. That's basically the long and short of it. Every useful encounter, every at will that isn't complete s**t, all our feats heroic feats have been reduced to a FRACTION OF HEROIC FEATS OF OTHER CLASSES, shield has been re-nufed and now it's impossible to 1v1 any class and make it a winning fight, (it's ALWAYS A LOSING FIGHT), aswell as having the MAX HIT OF ANY ATTACK THAT I'VE DONE BE A 4000 crit ice knife, with many damage bonuses WITH 3x plaguefire & 2x RoE debuff.
This may or may not be a post made in anger, but the CW has no place playing PvP in mod4 if these bias changes are made. Every damage bonus heroic feat has been nurfed to almost half, while the heroic feats of EVERY... OTHER... CLASS remains the same.... Not to mention the nurfs on all the encounter and at will abilities, THAT HIT ONE TARGET AT A TIME and not multiple targets, which is why CWs are so op in dungeons right now. WE NEVER HAD THE SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE TO COMPETE WITH ANY OTHER CLASS AND NOW IT'S EVEN LESS SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE. Assailing Force now deals a whopping 3k on most players, and our encounters deal 1-3k now, compared to the massive hits done by other players. It's just like CWs in mod3 struggling and giving up playing because how hard it is to actually play a CW. I'd bet that if any of the devs logged onto my character on the preview and tried to fight a few random people they would lose every time, and not because they don't even play the game... CWs have always been the under-dog and it's only more obvious with the Mod4 changes, and the devs made it more obvious when they reduced almost all single target damage, while leaving multi target damage much more intact. It's simply not fair to the few remaining serious PvPers who still like the CW class and now are basically told, "So guys we decided to make the CW less effective in dungeons and more in-line with other classes! -Chill strike nurf, Entangling force nurf, Magic missile nurf-" --Because EVERYone uses those types of abilities in dungeons, that have almost 20 mobs per area, and those abilities affect one thing at a time. It's frankly disgusting from a players point of view how obscene and short-sighted a majority of the nurfs have been.
All single target abilities need to be how they are on live, and even on live, they don't do nearly as much damage as the other classes. And all the multi target abilities should get nurfed. (just kidding shard of endless avalanche already got put into the grave lol)
This probably was just a rage post but it's defiantly right on the mark when it comes to what you devs have done with the class lol
-Almost the same in dungeons
-Worse in PvP then mod3
-All around depressing to continue to play this class
-Can't be arsed to try and lug it along like GF's lugged along in mod2/3
Two(and a half) things that can be done to make CWs playable and enjoyable
-take away the single target damage nurfs to ablities commonly used in PvP (they are horse s**t and have no reason to be used anymore besides leveling up to 60)
-reduce the damage on abilities commonly used in PvE to overpower the other classes with AoE damage
-make it so we can rely on our encounters again instead of a single (nurfed) feat (assailing force)
post purely focus on pvp
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Feedback: Shield
This change reverts it back to useless. When I give up my mastery slot I'm giving up more than 25% of my potential damage output. I'm not going to trade out an attacking encounter for Shield unless it increases my survivability more than it reduces my damage. Also, I'm giving up more than 25% of my incoming lifesteal by taking an attacking encounter off tab.
CW's are still punching bags on the preview server. Log on as a CW and head over to the PvP area of Icewind Pass and see for yourself.
Here's a thread started yesterday by GWF's upset about how bad they are in PvP in Mod 4 with videos as evidence.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?717311-GWF-vs-other-class&p=8522961&viewfull=1#post8522961
Notice: no videos against CW's. It's because CW's still aren't a problem for most other classes in PvP.
This was pretty disappointing to see. As soon as CW's became competitive with GWF's, they leap into our thread and get things re-nerfed.
The fact that people were now complaining about getting killed 1v1 by a CW told me that they were moving in the right direction. It actually gave me hope I'd be able to PvP more on my CW without feeling like I was weighing the team down.
Oh well, I'll just stick to PvE.
People of classes that have infinite Deflection and infinite Control Immune state and amazing survivability powers are upset because there's a power that reduces the damage received by a class that takes brutal damage by 35%.
The fun part is that the other classes have damage and we don't. In other words, the difference between the Shield pre-nerf and the Shield post-nerf is that before we could stay alive without being able to do nothing, and after we can't stay alive, unable to do nothing.
And to add to this, Renegade is the ultimate looser. Speaking of which:
- minimize EotS ICD, to help Renegade's DPS. No CW who is used to DPS through crit+cha+CA will become buffy! They will simply switch to the one and only DPS tree.
- or give Renegades kind of specialization that will allow them to cast encounters, at wills and dailies significantly faster then other trees (by reducing ICD, CD and casting time).
For CWs in general regardless of tree chosen:
- empower single target spells (for PvP purposes).
- make Shard damage significant again (for PvP).
- if you nerf shield, at least make it reflect some damage. This is really ridiculous that GF chock full of HP has reflecting damage skill, and squishy CW has nothing of this sort.If I remember well, D&D wizards have two shields (blue and red), both reflecting some portion of damage to the attackers. Make normal shield blue, tabbed one red.
Currently, Magic Missiles is the best choice for single-target damage, since it stacks Arcane Mastery and has a good performance. For AoE situations, Chilling Cloud is better.
But, in any situation, Chilling Cloud is currently better for Thaumaturge and Oppressor due to Chill stacking benefits, debuffs and Frozen Power Transfer, and here is my doubt. Why was Magic Missiles nerfed and Chilling Cloud buffed?
This nerf is even more strange when you think about the other Paragon Path's at-wills, because they have more interesting mechanics in comparison to Magic Missiles and deal even more damage on single-target damage after this nerf, making the Magic Missiles not being the best choice for any situation.
AFAIK only the last 2 hits of Magic Missiles weren't properly benefiting of Armor Penetration, which is 24% less damage for these hits, but the OVERALL damage of this power was reduced by 33%; it's not only 9% overflowed nerf, but it also decreases the damage of the other 3 hits that weren't buffed.
Is there any reason for this nerf that I didn't consider? Why was Magic Missiles nerfed if other powers can be used replacing it with almost no difference?
I still think the master slot should be reworked. It should work as follows:
- It enables the use of an energy bar that recharges slowly passively.
- When activated all skills change dramatically becoming stronger in return doubles the cast time in using them.
- The secret is to be patient and use the power at the right time.
- Loss of energy bar can not be stopped at the end starts charging again.
Feedback:
Modify the following feats
Controlling Action: Gain 1/2/3/4/5% of your total Action Point when using powers on a controlled target. (10 second cooldown)
Fight On: Encounter fixed cooldowns reduced by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Battlewise: Increases your damage by 1/2/3% per Arcane Mastery stack (5 stacks = +30%)
Wizard's Wrath: Armor penetration bonus by 3/6/9%
Blighting Power: Chill reduces the target deflection by 1/2/3% per stack
Lightning Teleport: Consumption of stamina to teleport reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Arcane Enhancement: Arcane Mastery stack lasts longer 0.5/1.5/2.5 seconds
Learned Spellcaster: Encounter cast time reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%
Prestidigitation: You and your allies gain 2/4/6% increased Stat Ratings (does not stack)
Focused Wizardry: Chance to ignore immunity to control by 3/6/9%
What was giving us a little chance in live server (a really little) was armor pen feat and debuf spell (and that in thauma or renegade way). Without that buff dammage are already cut by 3 or even 4 on live server. Since they practicaly taking it all + reducing damage around 15 to 30 % on single target we are doing 30-40% of damage now.
let take a fight in live server between a GF or GWF with 80% dr (yes sentinel can goes to more than 80% with inflexible). 1 if you have entrengling force it do 0 damage against control immun target). let make count on thauma way with a classic and consider the best for the CW (spell not block by all instant control encounter on GF or GWF). default ice knife, ray of enfeeblisment in tab, ice conduct, let say steal time and chill strike for damage. base damage on my character in same order 12K,6K, 4K,4K,6K. alos lvl 9 spell plague enchant
with 15% armor pen and the fact that arcane spell reduce armor 10% more (t4 feat of thauma) you get in this order.
(ice knife usable only once)
1 ice conduct: 4k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.2(tenacity))= 1.12 K
2 ray : 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.15+0.1)*(1-0.2 )*(1.15+1.15)= 2.8 k
3 second ray: (most of time i see that both in live and test server second ray do 0 damage): 6K * (1-0.8+0.1+0.3+0.15)*(1.45)=5.22K
4 ice knife: 12K *(1-0.8+0.3+0.15)*(1-0.2)*1.45=10.44K
5 and 6 give an extra summ of 8.7. mean your doing at all 28k dammage mean to shot a GF and GWF with 80 DR you need if he let you strike 2 full roll of spell to shot him (40K life) 30 second.. here that the best without blocking or dodging or be controled or interrupt even once + ice knife charged (practicaly 50% damage here) mean without ice knife = 18k roll
now let see in test server with same spell.
ice knife do 11k base, ray: 4K, ice conduct:3K, steal time 6K, and chill strike:4k let also say that with the actual statment assaillant will proc once per 10 second (here is best since it's the minimal time that it can proc)
same fight.
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 second ray.4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 2.7k
4 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.30: 7.37 K
5 the rest: 6.7K damage and add 1 assaillant for 4 k: =17.61 k + 4 k = 21k at all. and 14K without ice knife: mean 45 second to kill without any dodge or anything nore any life back.
with new shield slotted in tab
taking same other spell just replace chill strike with ray (couting assaillant proc same once per roll)
1 ice conduct: 3k * (1-0.8+0.15)*(1-0.8):0.84K
2 ray: 4K *(1-0.8+0.15+0.10)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 1.656
3 ice knife 11K*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15: 6.5 K
4 steal time: 6k*(1-0.8+0.15+0.30)*(1-0.8)*1.15:3.5K
total 12.5k with ice knife +4k from assaillant: 16.5k without ice knife: 10K dammage mean 1 min to kill a passive player
know let see the other side. since def haven't change from live server and test server without shield it pretty the same.
1 all GF and GWF have at least 1 feat that provide 0.1 DR reduce+ let say a terror enchant lvl 9 and same 15% Dr ignore
A wizard can have at best 30% dr. mean only the first shot will have 5% dr left rest is 100% damage* 0.8 for tenacity
with a mere 6K medium feat damage it give
first shot: 6K *(1-0.05)*(1-0.8):4.56K
rest :4.8k
daily : 12k = 9.6
total: 23.76 K (as you can see i do not count any boost dammage to consider a fight against a GF. against GWF you can easely up that by 1.25%). with a 25K or 30K PV CW; your are near or already dead if even one crit (since we have 0 deflect value)
with shield and against a player that do not strike with at will to reduce damage it give
4.56*(1-0.8):0.912k
4.8*(1-0.5):2.4k
4.8*(1-0.25):3.6k
9.6*(1-0.25):7.2k
=14k and since shield will not reup after first roll, second role also do 3.6k each mean 10.8k . mean we are dead in 2 roll of encounter.
And since our at will do less damage we canno't hope anything from there too.
PS in GF case with there 30 second up shield we will be dead before we can control them with shield down and since we don't have any control immun we are already dead before doing any spell.
With on live server we already have hard time with a ratio of 20-25 second to kill vs 15 second for other due to control immun.
now on previous server we need twice the time we needed in live server with nothing else change for control or anything else.
Even with the 50% last shield lvl we were at disavatage but not an unpassable one
Edit:
in all that" i took each time the best case for CW but practically always min case for opponent
Isn't the whole point of this thread to create a form of comunication between players and devs about how to fix the class and make it still viable in pve and pvp?
It certainly doesen't feel like it at all.
You guys keep ignoring us and in less than a month the new module goes live.
Anyway..
Exactly.
Give us something to work with first and then we can talk about the Feat fixes for the different trees.
No. Leave Mastery alone.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
A CW, no matter which build,
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled GWF.
- has no chance against an equally geared and skilled HR (extreme case; the HR's HP would never even get close to 50 %).
- can not kill a PvP DC that is built for survivability.
- can kill a TR only with certain gear (Greater Plague Fire or Perfect Bilethorn Enchantment) and build (DoT Spellstorm, DoT MoF), that can only be pulled off in a straight 1v1.
All of the following changes need to happen in order to make the CW somewhat viable in PvP (these changes would not affect PvE in any way):
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target At-Will powers deal 20/40/60% more damage. Single target Encounter powers deal 10/20/30% more damage.
Unrestrained Chaos (Spellstorm Mage): *REWORK* Eye of the Storm's internal cooldown is reduced by 4/8/12/16/20 seconds.
Arcane Burst (MoF): *REWORK* Critical Conflagration grants you 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% more Crit Severity with each rank.
Nightmare Wizardry: 4/8/12/16/20% chance to grant you and allies combat advantage for 6 seconds (down from 12).
Phantasmal Destruction: *REWORK* When you deal Combat Advantage damage you gain (100%, up from 40%) 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Shard of Endless Avalanche: Spell Mastery: In addition to the other effects, deals 50% more damage (like Icy Rays).
Fix Repel: It is still affected by Deflection and doesn't push.
It's been said many times now, but I can say it one more time: Single target powers are pure PvP powers! They have nothing to do with the CW's PvE abilities. PvE CWs are so powerful because of their AoE abilities.
Look at the PvP Leaderboard for once! How many CWs will you spot? Well, maybe CWs just don't play PvP? Wrong! Go to page 1500+ and you will spot way more CWs than other classes. That's where PvP CWs are right now. As of the Live Shard, CWs are bad in PvP.
As of today's Test Shard, the PvP CW is dead!
It is OK in PvE and completely not viable in PvP. And this is coming from someone who's been playing the CW since the beginning of open beta on a daily basis. Over the last 2 Modules, you have destroyed the CW in PvP. If the current state on the Test Shard is even close to your idea of a balanced game, then it really leaves me speechless at this point.
There is no viable way to play a CW in PvP anymore.
I just wanted to say that I agree with these changes.
/ ZengiaH PvP CW from Disrespect (former Enemy Team)
Before they renerf shield and cut by half damage from assaillant. thauma way was near a good PVP class and only little adjust were needed for this way even if the build was a lonely config build, it was existing.
For oppressor way, they should have at least one CC that can break CC immun and have other control that don t take many second to activate
And for renegade should have a real party buff debuf tree that can really help party.
Also for all class we should have at least some spell that not take this long to be launch so we have a way to avoid interrupt in some way. we also need a real mechanism like other class to avoid control for some period of time since we have no way to escape or avoid fight.
But all that have been said so many time that is again useless post.
EDIT: Most of the CW community have left, fiew still remain and none of them want to continue test on the actual statment of CW, we don t care if there is bug or not since we don t want to play this class anymore on V4. we are only 4 or 5 CW player that continue trying to have a playable class, but our energy is limited