the guard is good that its that stable because we still take dmg while guarding and in pvp to have it up that long requires you to have less dmg encounters on and players can still CC you anyway or just run behind you and in pve you can still take heavy dmg so i think its fine.
Not to mention we cant really do much damage aside from reflect (takes a class feature slot) or trying to stab in melee range...
Other classes tools (GWF - Unstoppable, TR - stealth, CW- new shield) all allows them to not only still MOVE quite well, but also attack.
Like I said, Guard in the current state is too durable considering I invested exactly 0 feats in it, basically meaning that those feats would be superfluous and never picked.
I do not believe that Guard should be "endless" without having chosen any feats or sacrificed more than 1 encounter slot
Not sure what you are slotting, but even with Raven Skull artifact (+stam gain) the stam gain boon (+250) and the Sharandar 10% boon, AND Profound 4/4 I can assure you I dont have "endless block"
If block was at 100% mitigation it would need some sort of less downtime, given that its only 80% and classes like HR or CW have thing that ignore DR, I definitely DONT think its "OP" at all... Go duel a CW on the PTR or a good HR and youll see we still are not ULTRA TANKY...
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Not sure what you are slotting, but even with Raven Skull artifact (+stam gain) the stam gain boon (+250) and the Sharandar 10% boon, AND Profound 4/4 I can assure you I dont have "endless block"
If block was at 100% mitigation it would need some sort of less downtime, given that its only 80% and classes like HR or CW have thing that ignore DR, I definitely DONT think its "OP" at all... Go duel a CW on the PTR or a good HR and youll see we still are not ULTRA TANKY...
Well Godmode figured it out he have almost endless block.
And i know he use BI gear.
Well Godmode figured it out he have almost endless block.
And i know he use BI gear.
You can, if you slot everything for it. Which IMO isnt OP. Also ive been Theory crafting with Godmode about this and he definitely doesnt think its OP either...
What you need to do this is Shield Talent (class feature), Raven (stam gain) Boon (stam gain) sharandar boon (stam gain)
And THEN slotting Iron Warrior for the additional stam gain you can get near endless block. But none of that really helps you because you cant attk while in block, AND it takes an encounter power away.
Also you STILL take 20% damage through block... And run slower.... So again, not OP at all.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You can, if you slot everything for it. Which IMO isnt OP. Also ive been Theory crafting with Godmode about this and he definitely doesnt think its OP either...
What you need to do this is Shield Talent (class feature), Raven (stam gain) Boon (stam gain) sharandar boon (stam gain)
And THEN slotting Iron Warrior for the additional stam gain you can get near endless block. But none of that really helps you because you cant attk while in block, AND it takes an encounter power away.
Also you STILL take 20% damage through block... And run slower.... So again, not OP at all.
You only need Shield Talent and Iron Warrior (or Enforced Threat). That's hardly "slotting everything for it". The only stam related boon I have on GF is the IWD boon
You only need Shield Talent and Iron Warrior (or Enforced Threat). That's hardly "slotting everything for it". The only stam related boon I have on GF is the IWD boon
What is op about blocking 80% damage not to mention that piercing damage is the theme for mod 4 so this is no problem imo. Reason being to take an encounter slot for iron warrior in pvp is well silly because it will not help you control your opponent. The day we can use encounters while blocking then that becomes an issue(cough current cw shield).
EDIT: And as for pve please do try your perma block in the new dungeon without a dc i doubt you will live lol.
It just seems that TO ME, having a CW with a minimum of 70% DR (2% base + 50% unstable) is a little silly when the GF thats a TANK cant even get much over 60% DR (in full prot) I was thinking maybe the "MASTERY" of this adds either a damage boost, or MORE control resist but I dont think the DR should be more than even 30% when broken. Now that CWs have alot more control, they ARE more tanky. Now that they have a feat that deals damage THROUGH all damage resist, they can still do some good damage in PVP (through GFs block).
So to me, it doesnt make sense that they also have MUCH higher DR than all the classes.... Even the Tank class....
Im fearful if I post this feedback in the CW thread it causes alot of flame and just gets removed. If anyone wants to, go for it.
FEEDBACK:
I am also VERY leery about Guardians ability to tank. Now we have tools (i.e. ET/Mark/New block) but all of that is rather meh, if the GF cant actually TAKE alot of damage. Maybe we are supposed to revolve around blocking, and outside we are pitiful, it just seems for a class wearing plate armor, we dont get much benefit to the added AC we have.
Heroic Feat:
Armor Specialization. Consider boosting this to 10/20/30% increase (up from 5/10/15%). This would boost DR a fair amount for all GFs giving a real benefit to stacking high defense and AC. Even going to 15/20/25% would be fitting as well....
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
Like it has been said the protector capstone should work and apply stacks when hit instead of having to attack.
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
I've asked repeatedly for them to tone down the Shield on tab so that it's same DR on and off tab.
I've recommended giving it some other benefit on tab other than DR
I am a CW not a tank, and I'd prefer leaving that job to someone who is built for it.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited July 2014
I am 100% sure Goodmod dont have Shield Talent slotted he was pure on conq also her main arti is DC arti.
Mybe you shoud ask her when i saw him he have 50k hp no pets around 2 k power and almost zero armor pen 2 k crit.
But mybe i dont remember rigth .
I am 100% sure Goodmod dont have Shield Talent slotted he was pure on conq also her main arti is DC arti.
Mybe you shoud ask her when i saw him he have 50k hp no pets around 2 k power and almost zero armor pen 2 k crit.
But mybe i dont remember rigth .
Godmode is a He bro. Just saying... Maybe his char is a female - i havnt looked that closely. One thing I do know, ive been testing this ALOT myself and again, its not too strong which I think is hilarious that ppl were saying itll ruimn the class, and others say its too good.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Godmode is a He bro. Just saying... Maybe his char is a female - i havnt looked that closely. One thing I do know, ive been testing this ALOT myself and again, its not too strong which I think is hilarious that ppl were saying itll ruimn the class, and others say its too good.
I've asked repeatedly for them to tone down the Shield on tab so that it's same DR on and off tab.
I've recommended giving it some other benefit on tab other than DR
I am a CW not a tank, and I'd prefer leaving that job to someone who is built for it.
Thanks for the honest feedback here: maybe you can post (if you havnt) on the CW thread so this gets seen. Like I said, I am 100% behind the CW getting some love, even posted when this hit saying it looks interesting, but after playing with AND against it (in 2v2s etc) CWs are the tankiest class!
The ONLY way I can see this being viable, is if shield slowly drains stamina at this high of DR - so its not 100% uptime AND reduces the ability to blink as much. Otherwise it really should be toned down a tad... The moer DR/tankiness you have the less mobile you should be.
The NEW CW with shield PLUS the capstone that deals damage and ignores DR.... Pretty OP imo.
@ Crush - would it be possible to INSTEAD of halving the damage of the capstone in PVP (against players) if the ONLY difference was that it instead respected DR in PVP?
This would bring it back down a ways and tenacity+Dr/Deflect ETC could be factored into it. Even then it STILL may need a tone down.
I honestly dont know why this bypasses DR, in PVE most PVE players run 24% ARP to mitigate all DR anyways, so why does this do it? for PVP? Havnt we learned its bad to have things like this in PVP yet?
Thanks for the honest feedback here: maybe you can post (if you havnt) on the CW thread so this gets seen. Like I said, I am 100% behind the CW getting some love, even posted when this hit saying it looks interesting, but after playing with AND against it (in 2v2s etc) CWs are the tankiest class!
The ONLY way I can see this being viable, is if shield slowly drains stamina at this high of DR - so its not 100% uptime AND reduces the ability to blink as much. Otherwise it really should be toned down a tad... The moer DR/tankiness you have the less mobile you should be.
The NEW CW with shield PLUS the capstone that deals damage and ignores DR.... Pretty OP imo.
@ Crush - would it be possible to INSTEAD of halving the damage of the capstone in PVP (against players) if the ONLY difference was that it instead respected DR in PVP?
This would bring it back down a ways and tenacity+Dr/Deflect ETC could be factored into it. Even then it STILL may need a tone down.
I honestly dont know why this bypasses DR, in PVE most PVE players run 24% ARP to mitigate all DR anyways, so why does this do it? for PVP? Havnt we learned its bad to have things like this in PVP yet?
With as much attention the GF's are getting which was long overdue got to say pve wise I am really gunning to try the adjustments out as for pvp the simple fact that most damage is bypassing our new updated block and we have a cloth wearing class more survivable than a plate wearing GF...has me simply seeing a Mega-Facepalm moment. I know there's still time left for beta (preview) before we go live and more adjustments are probably ( I hope) scheduled for all the classes) but yeah it does seem we are being placed in a potentially worse situation for pvp than on live.
With as much attention the GF's are getting which was long overdue got to say pve wise I am really gunning to try the adjustments out as for pvp the simple fact that most damage is bypassing our new updated block and we have a cloth wearing class more survivable than a plate wearing GF...has me simply seeing a Mega-Facepalm moment. I know there's still time left for beta (preview) before we go live and more adjustments are probably ( I hope) scheduled for all the classes) but yeah it does seem we are being placed in a potentially worse situation for pvp than on live.
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Indeed, those changes are a bit ... confusing, and slightly disheartening.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Geez...bypassed the Mega-Facepalm moment and went into infinity mode....can we please stop giving our arch rival class the same things we get...they already are more survivable and bring more dps (though somewhat debatable if we tally up group buffs) to a group than us this is just adding insult to injury.
Crush, any chance this will get looked at and adjusted I mean seriously if this keeps up why not remove the GF's and give all our buffs to the GWF as well....sorry if that response is somewhat angered but...they wear scale (a version of chain) mail, don't use a shield and yet have more personal dps, can out survive us and faster movement just to name a few. I was in a good mood about the changes until Ayroux enlightened me on them getting our buffs we had suggested. I have never in 10 years on many different MMO's seen so much illogic with regards to classes i.e. the more damage a class can do the less survivable they are in pve and pvp but that base logic is out the window on this game....going to get drunk.
Geez...bypassed the Mega-Facepalm moment and went into infinity mode....can we please stop giving our arch rival class the same things we get...they already are more survivable and bring more dps (though somewhat debatable if we tally up group buffs) to a group than us this is just adding insult to injury.
Crush, any chance this will get looked at and adjusted I mean seriously if this keeps up why not remove the GF's and give all our buffs to the GWF as well....sorry if that response is somewhat angered but...they wear scale (a version of chain) mail, don't use a shield and yet have more personal dps, can out survive us and faster movement just to name a few. I was in a good mood about the changes until Ayroux enlightened me on them getting our buffs we had suggested. I have never in 10 years on many different MMO's seen so much illogic with regards to classes i.e. the more damage a class can do the less survivable they are in pve and pvp but that base logic is out the window on this game....going to get drunk.
I actually had to TRIPLE check he posted it under the GWF thread because I thought it was a type-error.
But yes, I am really at a loss.
GF mark(tab) is on command, but only hits 1 target, uses animation time. All their other marks DONT last long.
GWFs marks, NOT on command - use skills to mark, but are perma...
My suggestion: make "mark" last 10 seconds for BOTH classes (down from 20). Make Mark do 20% increased damage and CA - but 10 seconds for BOTH GF and GWF. REMOVE "tab" mark from GFs and give them Into the Fray on tab.
Yes you will have to replace those with new powers... Shoot, since were in the mood just take some of the GWFs stuff to make it easy.
Why not Take "Restoring Strike" and replace Into the Fray for encounters.
Now GFs get "into the fray" on tab. Block on Stamina.
GWFs get Unstoppable + Sprint
They both have the same mark mechanics - i.e. 10 second mark, 20% dmg bonus (8% for allies) and C.A. Bonus.
Id say that shapes up nicely. If you dont like ITF, use Knights Valor (although it has no solo-benefits) so that would be the only drawback... (Maybe just give a flat 10% DR boost while KV is active - instead of the R2/R3s giving 20% boost there).
Take your pick crush! Now players could be using ITF or K.V. on tab, and Enforced Threat to mark (aoe) targets for 10 seconds and get the aoe benefits. GWFs can threat rush/IBS/Shout to mark and get benefits.
This makes sense to me... Gives GF something unique from GWF and they BOTH get the fancy new mark!
Why is it every time a gf gets a good buff and we are all happy they then give it to other classes ? We get a great mark then our rival class gets it too, our shield is good but then CW get a super shield lol. I tested with some CW's on test server and I'm an 18.5k gf there and a cw tanked me, my huge hits did almost nothing to him and within 7 seconds I lost 50k hp...
Why is it every time a gf gets a good buff and we are all happy they then give it to other classes ? We get a great mark then our rival class gets it too, our shield is good but then CW get a super shield lol. I tested with some CW's on test server and I'm an 18.5k gf there and a cw tanked me, my huge hits did almost nothing to him and within 7 seconds I lost 50k hp...
They will have to adjust CW shield. Right now it is way too powerful. I wouldn't be too worried about it
Lets put an end to this missunderstanding and the lack of knowledge once and for all.
This is a D&D WotC licensed title, and here are the definition of the Hunter Ranger from the official 4E source book "Players Handbook I":
Lets quote the definition of the Fighter class, shall we?
Now, lets take a closer look at the specific definition of the Guardian Fighter, and the assumption of people in this thread, a Guardian Fighter should be able to kill a hunter Ranger 1vs1.
Keep that quote in mind and imagine the situation on a node where a Hunter Ranger engages a GUARDIANfighter in a 1vs1:
About the Hunterranger:
Ok guys. Can you figure out that little quote puzzle by yourselfes? Or do I have to do that for you?
Which class might be more entitled to win an isolated 1vs1 situation?
I'd like to bring your own quote to your attention;
To fight better, you fight smarter. You’re willing to
trade offense for superior defenses and better ability
to control the battlefield around you. (...)
So, the GF has traded offense - we do have the lowest damage output in game outside of the DC - for defense. On the other hand we have the HR, in his leather and cloth, who can both attack from range and melee, 'deal(ing) a lot of damage to one enemy at a time' who according to you should also be able to facetank the class that has supposedly sacrificed offense for defense. Is there anything else we can add to the HR's arsenal or are we satisfied that he can do everything exceptionally well?
The GF should be incredibly difficult to dislodge from a node, especially in a 1v1 situation, but unless he outgears his opponent he will not keep an HR off of the node.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Strange, I've been using this power for months in PvP and PvE and I almost never strike twice anymore. It's very sensitive, but it does not strike twice with only one key push. If you push the key twice then it will launch two GW successively, it may explain the confusion.
I don't know then. I can assure you that I push it once. I have a DC and GWF as well and on them I will always trigger one Healing Word or one Punishing Charge (both of these encounters have 3 charges) at a time. Even in a Draco fight or messy node contest I do not fire off an unnecessary second HW. However, the GF frequently triggers a second GW for seemingly no reason.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Going from the quotes? The class that can "control the battlefield" around itself and has "superior defenses" sounds like it should be harder to dislodge from defending an area than the class that focuses on "speed and mobility" and "hit and run tactics." Basically, that while a Hunter Ranger should be able to win a 1v1, but not while fighting in a tight area; i.e. on a node.
This is true. You have limited space to work with. Rangers are supposed to excel in wider open areas. Not to say they cant operate and succeed in tight areas. It will and should be a bit more difficult for them.
And this is true for my ranger. (as I do not use the healing deflective set bonus that some other rangers use. I dont like the set bonus because it directly negates thier weakness they're supposed to have)
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't know then. I can assure you that I push it once. I have a DC and GWF as well and on them I will always trigger one Healing Word or one Punishing Charge (both of these encounters have 3 charges) at a time. Even in a Draco fight or messy node contest I do not fire off an unnecessary second HW. However, the GF frequently triggers a second GW for seemingly no reason.
This is because griffons wrath is extremely sensative to its activation. pressing it once, it doesnt go off right away so immediate habit is to press it again, and it queues both presses to make griffon's wrath strike twice without meaning to because you thought the first press didnt register. This doesnt happen with other charge encounter abilities. If you press Healing Word two or three times in rapid succession before the first even finishes its activation it wont follow with the rest of the charges. Same with punishing charge. Griffons Wrath's activation time has been increased before in a patch a while ago and because of this, its very sensative to the presses and queues each press.
@ Crush your initial idea of the iv gwf trading damage for tankiness was good now with this update u have just thrown us back to the very root of the problem.I suggest you consider redesigning the tab ability(mark) of the gf to be very unique from what the gwf wod get here are some suggestions
1. reduce the bonus damage the gwf gets from mark to the 8% gfs are currently getting on live and 3% to allies and do away with the combat advantage they get.This class has high weapon damage and very good offense stats
2.When a target is marked by a gf let the gf allies gain 10% dr on that target(act differently in pvp of course)
3.like someone said let the gf get 15-25% dr on the targets that r marked
4.make mark last 20-30 sec for the gf and 10-15sec for the gwf
5.Its been said before let the guard timer start when we start taking damage not when sheild is up and stops when there is no more damage increaE THE TIME DURATION BY 4-8 sec
These optionsvare being presented to you and i hope u take a serious look at it else this is just mode 2 all over again since the gwf can tank better and dish out a truly decent amount of damage and this time round also buff allies
Looks like most of you fellow GF players are way too fixated on the GWF class and how the two fighters compare. Keep in mind, come Mod 4 its not the GWF that will cause problems for GFs both in PVE and PVP.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Looks like most of you fellow GF players are way too fixated on the GWF class and how the two fighters compare. Keep in mind, come Mod 4 its not the GWF that will cause problems for GFs both in PVE and PVP.
^^^^This. Gf is a control class not a DPS class. I say this playing a conq (GFs control via threat, damage adds threat). If we can work this mod so that we hold aggro while less tanky classes apply damage it is a party win.
Looks like most of you fellow GF players are way too fixated on the GWF class and how the two fighters compare. Keep in mind, come Mod 4 its not the GWF that will cause problems for GFs both in PVE and PVP.
well considering we can only mark one target permanently how is it remotely fair that GWF can permanently mark 3 targets with just threatening rush?
also there is this
GF mark= 20% damage reduction
GWF=20%damage reduction and with feat an extra 15%
so GWF get 35% extra damage on marked targets while we the GF's only get our base 20%.
but yeah come mod 4 CW's are tankier than us HR's are Tankier than us and heal pretty much on every single attack but thats the kicker these classes while striker classes may not hold threat but in pvp they out tank us any day.
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ameyaw1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
Looks like most of you fellow GF players are way too fixated on the GWF class and how the two fighters compare. Keep in mind, come Mod 4 its not the GWF that will cause problems for GFs both in PVE and PVP.
its not that we r fixated on them but the make is our tab ability and sharing that with a class that totally out performs us wod creat a much more disparity
Comments
Not to mention we cant really do much damage aside from reflect (takes a class feature slot) or trying to stab in melee range...
Other classes tools (GWF - Unstoppable, TR - stealth, CW- new shield) all allows them to not only still MOVE quite well, but also attack.
So I agree its in a fair spot IMO.
Not sure what you are slotting, but even with Raven Skull artifact (+stam gain) the stam gain boon (+250) and the Sharandar 10% boon, AND Profound 4/4 I can assure you I dont have "endless block"
If block was at 100% mitigation it would need some sort of less downtime, given that its only 80% and classes like HR or CW have thing that ignore DR, I definitely DONT think its "OP" at all... Go duel a CW on the PTR or a good HR and youll see we still are not ULTRA TANKY...
Well Godmode figured it out he have almost endless block.
And i know he use BI gear.
You can, if you slot everything for it. Which IMO isnt OP. Also ive been Theory crafting with Godmode about this and he definitely doesnt think its OP either...
What you need to do this is Shield Talent (class feature), Raven (stam gain) Boon (stam gain) sharandar boon (stam gain)
And THEN slotting Iron Warrior for the additional stam gain you can get near endless block. But none of that really helps you because you cant attk while in block, AND it takes an encounter power away.
Also you STILL take 20% damage through block... And run slower.... So again, not OP at all.
You only need Shield Talent and Iron Warrior (or Enforced Threat). That's hardly "slotting everything for it". The only stam related boon I have on GF is the IWD boon
What is op about blocking 80% damage not to mention that piercing damage is the theme for mod 4 so this is no problem imo. Reason being to take an encounter slot for iron warrior in pvp is well silly because it will not help you control your opponent. The day we can use encounters while blocking then that becomes an issue(cough current cw shield).
EDIT: And as for pve please do try your perma block in the new dungeon without a dc i doubt you will live lol.
I moved to PTS and tested against a PVP GF/CW: Against the GF I could stall, but nothing more. If I try to attack him to kill him, I would easy lose. His 18k vs. 14.7k no PvP Protector with ~59.7% DR. That would be okay, BUT
I was murdered within 20s or so against the CW. He burn through my def(even BLOCK) like i was a fresh... nothing wearing GF. That's ridiculous! Yeah I had no Tenacity, but with 40k+59.7% so fast murdered is stupid...
And that's not all: With the powercreepfactor, the own Tree give the protector a disadvantage! -12% DR due new mark(so total -20% DR instead of the old -8% DR) AND on top of that: Many skills gain 20% or so more in damage! Even with the -10% damage done debuff the other both trees do more damage as before against us Protectors! Not fair...
Like it has been said the protector capstone should work and apply stacks when hit instead of having to attack.
I've asked repeatedly for them to tone down the Shield on tab so that it's same DR on and off tab.
I've recommended giving it some other benefit on tab other than DR
I am a CW not a tank, and I'd prefer leaving that job to someone who is built for it.
Mybe you shoud ask her when i saw him he have 50k hp no pets around 2 k power and almost zero armor pen 2 k crit.
But mybe i dont remember rigth .
Godmode is a He bro. Just saying... Maybe his char is a female - i havnt looked that closely. One thing I do know, ive been testing this ALOT myself and again, its not too strong which I think is hilarious that ppl were saying itll ruimn the class, and others say its too good.
He is a Male Dworf
Thanks for the honest feedback here: maybe you can post (if you havnt) on the CW thread so this gets seen. Like I said, I am 100% behind the CW getting some love, even posted when this hit saying it looks interesting, but after playing with AND against it (in 2v2s etc) CWs are the tankiest class!
The ONLY way I can see this being viable, is if shield slowly drains stamina at this high of DR - so its not 100% uptime AND reduces the ability to blink as much. Otherwise it really should be toned down a tad... The moer DR/tankiness you have the less mobile you should be.
The NEW CW with shield PLUS the capstone that deals damage and ignores DR.... Pretty OP imo.
@ Crush - would it be possible to INSTEAD of halving the damage of the capstone in PVP (against players) if the ONLY difference was that it instead respected DR in PVP?
This would bring it back down a ways and tenacity+Dr/Deflect ETC could be factored into it. Even then it STILL may need a tone down.
I honestly dont know why this bypasses DR, in PVE most PVE players run 24% ARP to mitigate all DR anyways, so why does this do it? for PVP? Havnt we learned its bad to have things like this in PVP yet?
With as much attention the GF's are getting which was long overdue got to say pve wise I am really gunning to try the adjustments out as for pvp the simple fact that most damage is bypassing our new updated block and we have a cloth wearing class more survivable than a plate wearing GF...has me simply seeing a Mega-Facepalm moment. I know there's still time left for beta (preview) before we go live and more adjustments are probably ( I hope) scheduled for all the classes) but yeah it does seem we are being placed in a potentially worse situation for pvp than on live.
Well you will also love the fact that GWFs "mark" now also gives 20% damage bonus, CA, and isnt removed when hit.
So now GWFs have our tab/sprint/unstoppable. CWs can outtank GFs! LOL - sorry this is all tongue in cheek. I know Crush will show some love here! Although I dont see the direction he is taking.....
Indeed, those changes are a bit ... confusing, and slightly disheartening.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Geez...bypassed the Mega-Facepalm moment and went into infinity mode....can we please stop giving our arch rival class the same things we get...they already are more survivable and bring more dps (though somewhat debatable if we tally up group buffs) to a group than us this is just adding insult to injury.
Crush, any chance this will get looked at and adjusted I mean seriously if this keeps up why not remove the GF's and give all our buffs to the GWF as well....sorry if that response is somewhat angered but...they wear scale (a version of chain) mail, don't use a shield and yet have more personal dps, can out survive us and faster movement just to name a few. I was in a good mood about the changes until Ayroux enlightened me on them getting our buffs we had suggested. I have never in 10 years on many different MMO's seen so much illogic with regards to classes i.e. the more damage a class can do the less survivable they are in pve and pvp but that base logic is out the window on this game....going to get drunk.
I actually had to TRIPLE check he posted it under the GWF thread because I thought it was a type-error.
But yes, I am really at a loss.
GF mark(tab) is on command, but only hits 1 target, uses animation time. All their other marks DONT last long.
GWFs marks, NOT on command - use skills to mark, but are perma...
My suggestion: make "mark" last 10 seconds for BOTH classes (down from 20). Make Mark do 20% increased damage and CA - but 10 seconds for BOTH GF and GWF. REMOVE "tab" mark from GFs and give them Into the Fray on tab.
Yes you will have to replace those with new powers... Shoot, since were in the mood just take some of the GWFs stuff to make it easy.
Why not Take "Restoring Strike" and replace Into the Fray for encounters.
Now GFs get "into the fray" on tab. Block on Stamina.
GWFs get Unstoppable + Sprint
They both have the same mark mechanics - i.e. 10 second mark, 20% dmg bonus (8% for allies) and C.A. Bonus.
Id say that shapes up nicely. If you dont like ITF, use Knights Valor (although it has no solo-benefits) so that would be the only drawback... (Maybe just give a flat 10% DR boost while KV is active - instead of the R2/R3s giving 20% boost there).
Take your pick crush! Now players could be using ITF or K.V. on tab, and Enforced Threat to mark (aoe) targets for 10 seconds and get the aoe benefits. GWFs can threat rush/IBS/Shout to mark and get benefits.
This makes sense to me... Gives GF something unique from GWF and they BOTH get the fancy new mark!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They will have to adjust CW shield. Right now it is way too powerful. I wouldn't be too worried about it
I'd like to bring your own quote to your attention;
So, the GF has traded offense - we do have the lowest damage output in game outside of the DC - for defense. On the other hand we have the HR, in his leather and cloth, who can both attack from range and melee, 'deal(ing) a lot of damage to one enemy at a time' who according to you should also be able to facetank the class that has supposedly sacrificed offense for defense. Is there anything else we can add to the HR's arsenal or are we satisfied that he can do everything exceptionally well?
The GF should be incredibly difficult to dislodge from a node, especially in a 1v1 situation, but unless he outgears his opponent he will not keep an HR off of the node.
I don't know then. I can assure you that I push it once. I have a DC and GWF as well and on them I will always trigger one Healing Word or one Punishing Charge (both of these encounters have 3 charges) at a time. Even in a Draco fight or messy node contest I do not fire off an unnecessary second HW. However, the GF frequently triggers a second GW for seemingly no reason.
This is true. You have limited space to work with. Rangers are supposed to excel in wider open areas. Not to say they cant operate and succeed in tight areas. It will and should be a bit more difficult for them.
And this is true for my ranger. (as I do not use the healing deflective set bonus that some other rangers use. I dont like the set bonus because it directly negates thier weakness they're supposed to have)
This is because griffons wrath is extremely sensative to its activation. pressing it once, it doesnt go off right away so immediate habit is to press it again, and it queues both presses to make griffon's wrath strike twice without meaning to because you thought the first press didnt register. This doesnt happen with other charge encounter abilities. If you press Healing Word two or three times in rapid succession before the first even finishes its activation it wont follow with the rest of the charges. Same with punishing charge. Griffons Wrath's activation time has been increased before in a patch a while ago and because of this, its very sensative to the presses and queues each press.
Looks like most of you fellow GF players are way too fixated on the GWF class and how the two fighters compare. Keep in mind, come Mod 4 its not the GWF that will cause problems for GFs both in PVE and PVP.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
^^^^This. Gf is a control class not a DPS class. I say this playing a conq (GFs control via threat, damage adds threat). If we can work this mod so that we hold aggro while less tanky classes apply damage it is a party win.
well considering we can only mark one target permanently how is it remotely fair that GWF can permanently mark 3 targets with just threatening rush?
also there is this
GF mark= 20% damage reduction
GWF=20%damage reduction and with feat an extra 15%
so GWF get 35% extra damage on marked targets while we the GF's only get our base 20%.
but yeah come mod 4 CW's are tankier than us HR's are Tankier than us and heal pretty much on every single attack but thats the kicker these classes while striker classes may not hold threat but in pvp they out tank us any day.
its not that we r fixated on them but the make is our tab ability and sharing that with a class that totally out performs us wod creat a much more disparity