I play gwf but from what ive seen playing on Gf must feel like playing demo version of neverwinter where ure restricted from aggroing effectively and basically fullfilling ur purpose. i mean cmon gwf can kite sp and fh better. Every enchantment apart from vorp is based on weapon dmg which in case of gwf is 1000 and gf ?600? I totally survive everything due to my life steal and dps so why shouldnt gf be able? Instead once his shield is gone he runs away like headless chicken and regen just doesnt work as good in pve i suppose. SO I AM AGAINST THE STAMINA/GUARD meter changes that cryptic wants to implement. and they should throw shield about like captain america.
The new Block is indeed awesome . I love the way it depletes by just using it(making it Helluva easy to break past it w/o even hitting a GF) or the reduced DR . It's indeed so much better as you say .
Mr Crash
.Let us keep our "OLD" Block instead of tiring yourself out by trying to fix the bugged non needed preview one . If you insist keeping the new block for mod 4 ,the GF Class will DIE .
Let me say this again this my personal opinion not a directed attack of any kind just trying to inspire some creativity for the coming change so people are not being stubborn to the last minute and then having to learn to play with the new block.
No problem, you were exclusively factual, allthough your "crazy mad scientists" comment was a bit of an eyebrow riser, but that audacious statement wasn't directed at me. :cool:
So let me ask would like your shield to be gone in seconds from multiple mobs or it lasts a fight and you are not running for your life over and over?
I think this situation can be significantly improved by increasing the general guard meter pool and/or regeneration rate of the guard meter as well as decreasing the delay until the guard meter starts recovering after taking a hit.
Additionally, I think it is ok in some cases for the guard to be broken during a fight, it makes it interesting and challenging to deal with these situations and to choose from a variety of options. I would like to see some improvements here to make it easier for us. For example, one could reduce the casting time of fighter's recovery (Kessel's Retreat anyone?). Another tweak has already been introduced at the live server, and you mentioned it: CON providing more hp, and thus helping us also to deal a bit better with damage spikes. One last thing about this: I am writing this from the perspective of a conqueror GF who is ok with beeing not that strong on the defensive side, I like evading or having to resort to something else than blocking.
Nevertheless I understand that there are protectors and probably tacticians who rightfully want their guard to be less easy broken if a volley of attacks hails down on them, and who want more tankiness. What I suggest is for them to get buffs to their feats deeper in their respective tree to boost what I wrote in the first paragraph or/and other creative ways to help them in this situation. I feel that there hasn't been made a serious attempt at exploring the creativity here. If I had to be the first one to step up and present ideas, well here is the first one from the top of my head:
Imagine to get (significantly!) higher damage resistance (and maybe CC immunity) x seconds to all damage once your guard is broken. This effect can only occur again after the guard meter has taped the 100% mark. Alternatively this effect could only trigger once in y seconds. (But I am not much a friend of these 'can only happen once in 90 seconds' time gates).Btw I'd love to see that underlined by some sound/graphics like chinking sparks flying of the armor. :cool:
OK i now am conficed the new block is great after a bunch of pvp matches the increased movement speed is a plus stamina block is decent if you slot the right talents and gear you have the potential to hold it up for close to 10 seconds plus we have cc immunity while guard is up now thats awesome. the movement is awesome it makes fights more exciting and your able to position yourself faster and better, trust me i was against it at first but now im all for it +1 for this the duration up was sorely needed now if we can just get the DR problem fixed good thing crush caught it
BLOCK we are still taking more dmg than we should through block it just a reminder this needs a fix then it will be perfect get to it devs
PLEASE add "blocked" back to the game for when you block attacks, its only a small change but it should have not been taken off.
Im Happy with everything else now, thanks for listening to people and making our class more balanced i really feel like mod 4 will make the game more fun for the gf players.
while blocking dont get 80% reduction dmg + your DR actually just get 41.176405 % of dmg reduction
Reckless Attacker dont increases your dmg only increases the crit chance
FLS still prone players
sometimes the cc affects you while blocking
idk why but sometimes your power down 70 % while blocking
feedback:
Guarded assault need to improve at least 15% of dmg returns
Change Knee breaker is too easy avoid /low range/slow motion
iron warrior / knight´s valor/Villian menace need buffed up whit dmg resit
Shielded resurgence/GRit/TAke a measure/ into the fray need to increase the amount of hit points
whille charge whit lunging strike your will get inmunity cc like root/slow
Iron Guard your shield now block 90/100% incoming dmg and reduces ATK speed/casting speed every enemy hit you
Martyal mastery while fight vs numerous enemies gain more action point
Finally the GF needs an increase in general DR make him better tank than the GWF in any event
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l3g10nna1reMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
edited July 2014
General question
The new Block was supposed to be based on Stamina Now, not DPS/Hits is that correct?
The reason I Ask is I just spent 1 hour doing solo trolls Elite etc and 5=1 add pulls to test block etc
1: Block went down in 4 seconds when pulling 5-10 adds but to my understanding its not about how many times you get HIT now its based on the Stamna Value Class Feature +30% Set means I get 10-11 seconds of 80% block Value/Ability and no amount of hits should take away from that time
2: Seems the Guard Icon is bugged some times will be full then Instantly Empty
3: Skills that restore Stamina Show it going to max Instantly not over 8 seconds
Seems Block is going down Very fast against enemys like its STILL based on Damage and not stamina or perhaps maybe I have understood it wrong
Bug: Knight's Challenge Any combat action during the animation (before the red line appears) will cancel the cast and put the power on cooldown w/o any affect. On rare occasions this can make the skill completely uncastable until it is removed from the active power slot.
90% of the post in this thread are aimed at the PVP aspect of the game this post is about the PVE aspect.
I have read and more importantly I have inspected (in game) other GF's (many, many GF's)and due to the research I have discovered that not all, but close to 75% of the players complaining about the GF class being so lousy isn't because of the class, its because of them.
I see many GF's with racial abilities that do not match what they are trying to be and MOST importantly their basic ability scores, yes STR,CON,DEX are pathetic, do you guys even know u can roll the dice to gain the best set of abilities for your racial selection and class, No I don't think 3/4 of you do. I think you get in such a hurry to make your toon you completely skip that part accepting the stock dice roll for your starting stats. Then when your GF turns out so lousy "Ohhh this class stinks it needs the devs to re do it" !!!
I have seen GF's in complete mismatched armor sets, NO I am not talking about someone going 2/2, or 4/4, I am talking about players going 4/1 meaning no set bonus what so ever, four different pieces from four different sets, but its still the class fault, not theirs that their GF stinks.
Or people that get the PVP set and complain because they do so poorly in PVE, OR the Pve sets and do so poorly in PVP, there are specific builds best suited to PVP and there are specific builds best suited for PVE, learn them and utilize them before you go shouting ohhhhh the GF class is lousy.
But my biggest laugh is from people that want to hide behind a shield. Do you even realize why the GWF has replaced the GF in groups, do you?
Its because of the damage they generate. Damage against a mob is a form of CC, it pulls the boss to them hence the adds direct also towards where the boss is pulled. That is a basic formula of MMO's and it was one of the first forms of CC in any MMO. He who does the most damage pulls the mob.
Then taunt entered the scene, it is a form of damage without causing physical damage, which over powered MOST if not all the DD's. Then it became a game of increasing the damage the GWF's, Nukers and rangers did against the taunt (mark in this game) that the GF's did, without over powering the GF ( guess what someone forgot to adjust the marks power that's why you can no longer control the mobs). The marks power is lower then the damage that the GWF, Nukers and rangers generate, hence they pull the mobs from you.
The main reason other people do not want a GF in their group isn't due to CC, its because even a little girl holding up a cross can do more damage then you do, yeah I'm talking about a cleric.
You think (as a GF)your supposed to hide behind your shield (which in your thinking is supposed to block 100% of all damage against you) and spam mark and the mobs and boss are just magically supposedly to fall in love with you, waltz over and stand by your side, while the rest of the group hails damage upon them.
Get a grip people. As a GF you first MARK, then deal damage (which a GF can do if you know what the heck you are doing when you build him) and only upon the most damaging assaults, raise your shield to block them. You don't just stand there holding your shield up for 30-45 seconds till the rest of your group kills the mob, that's the mentality that has put all the GF's out of the parties. Parties want players that can deal damage so the group doesn't spend 2 hours in a dungeon trying to whittle down or bore a boss to death.
Parties have a limited # of slots, so if a group goes in with only 1-2 DD's it takes forever to kill a boss, along with the added expense of pots and IF the healer goes down the party goes down. A group of DD's even without a healer can control the boss and mobs by selectively hitting and actually pulling the boss and mobs from one player to the other, forcing the boss and mobs to kite between them hence lowering the damage they put out to the group.
Most GWF's do not have half the defense that a lot of you GF's have and they don't have a shield, SO why do you feel you have to stand there and hide behind a shield to be effective. YOU DON"T, you have skills that most of you are not using, prob don't even know about. You can generate damage very comparable to a GWF, which when combined with your taunts(marks) would hold the mob on you allowing you to control it. But you cannot mark a mob then stand there with your shield raised and use that skill that pokes over the top of it at the mob(never used it so don't even know its name, worthless skill) and expect the mob to hold to you.
SO instead of you educating yourself about the class or repairing a broken toon that you made, you come crying to the devs to fix your mistakes!
Now they are going to fix it oky, yeah they are going to fix it for the demands and wishes of the PVP crowd.
Yes pve is important I use to do it and never bothered with pvp.
Currently on the test server with my new spec I am doing a lot more damage with the current changes to mark and having the increase to crit strike is a plus pve and pvp wise. I am not going to try and fight what is being done at this point because with the initial change to block I was apprehensive but now with the increased duration I am very happy with the change(even with the current dr bug). Even with the change to RA I can see the positive points I have said what will worry me already but since there is no real reason to go back to the old RA since block will decrease without being hit its better that this change is done at the same time.
Yes other paths need this attention as well with the change to block being a core part of our class the other paths need some more attention if they are to be just as attractive as conq in their respective ways. Protector could use some kind of stack mechanic where after so many hits you get a % heal. And for Tactician it will have to involve ap gain(maybe a higher gain from encounters) and a cc bonus of some kind.
If we can get past all the gloom and doom and start actually figuring out how to play with the new block we can probably get some new capstones for prot and tact which I am sure some gfs would very much enjoy.
From what I have found via testing. Our block is not where it is going to be.
Block
Block is capped at 80% DR. And since it is DR, things like thornward can reduce it zero, so I am holding my shield and taking full damage. So once that is fixed it will be a beast. I was able to keep near continuous block for 50 seconds of a minute, and that was max feated, max artifacts, max strength, max stamina gain via boons, so that could be good, but it should be increased because with that set up you aren't going to hurt anything. But like I said, currently it can be mitigated to nothing
Capstone
5% damage is rough testing right now, the crit is ok, but 20% damage increase will be a BIG noticeable difference.
Before anyone tests again
Lets let Crush fix the block, if it is meant to be mitigated, then I would then suggest a revert and leaving the capstone where it is. If our block can be mitigated, there are some classes that can reduce it zero, essentially making it useless.
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l3g10nna1reMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
edited July 2014
@ thesleeper55
Not sure if your Post is a Troll post of a Rage post but in most games where you are a Tank The Shield is the main defence however I agree to a certain extent that you can better in most cases with a GWF than GF due to Determination / Unstoppable Vrs Guard, However if Guard is fixed in Mod4 hopefully Itll change as it is now still Kinda Bugged
For reference Think of some of the Common MMOS going back that had Tanks
LOTRO - GF/Warden Block ussually the main defence and Parry for Warden OR block
Tera - Lancer - Stand Fast (Possibly the best Block Skill Ever) I Also loved Lancer
Wow - Warrior / Paladin Shield is the main Defence
Bug
Using dailies like crescendo causes immense lag
That big lag spike is because (well in my cases) - you/we are hitting shift to block before the daily is done. Since our block now interrupts all of our moves and lets us cancel things we don't want to use. It can do this with the daily, but it FREAKS out the game and makes us lag SUPER bad. I tested and got it to work 4/5 times just using the daily, and then blocking.
The new RA feat is too slow to stack. 5 hits means at least 2 secs the GF will luck the current damage.
Most,if not all Gfs use Lunging strike as their first assigned power both in pve/pvp.Followed by Bull/GW or FS.That means tha in the most crucial moment,the beginning of the battle,the stacks will not be full yet.
Proposal:
Make 3 stacks of 10% and crit by 4% each.
I AGREE WITH YOU.
*the new blocking with this duration time is good.*
MY SUGGESTIONS:
1- The most thing that GFs need is "CC IMMUNITY". add our passive skills, encounters or feats some cc immunity.
Killing a controlled tank doesnt cost more than 2 seconds.
2- Make the capstone buff more reachable. If you take 5 hit in pvp, you probably got controlled. Controlled tank means dead tank.
3- Just give us a "easy to apply" single target or an aoe skill like FLS that we could use instead of FLS. All of our encounters are easy to dodge. Even when the target only walks. (im not gonna use FLS in pvp. It hits like 7 year-old girl after the damage nerf and no prone .)
Yes pve is important I use to do it and never bothered with pvp.
Currently on the test server with my new spec I am doing a lot more damage with the current changes to mark and having the increase to crit strike is a plus pve and pvp wise. I am not going to try and fight what is being done at this point because with the initial change to block I was apprehensive but now with the increased duration I am very happy with the change(even with the current dr bug). Even with the change to RA I can see the positive points I have said what will worry me already but since there is no real reason to go back to the old RA since block will decrease without being hit its better that this change is done at the same time.
Yes other paths need this attention as well with the change to block being a core part of our class the other paths need some more attention if they are to be just as attractive as conq in their respective ways. Protector could use some kind of stack mechanic where after so many hits you get a % heal. And for Tactician it will have to involve ap gain(maybe a higher gain from encounters) and a cc bonus of some kind.
If we can get past all the gloom and doom and start actually figuring out how to play with the new block we can probably get some new capstones for prot and tact which I am sure some gfs would very much enjoy.
mfgamesys, that's been my point the whole time, the prot and tac trees are the ones that are broke, why mess with the conq tree it is the only one that "was" working.
ctf, I really do not have any problems with the changes to the shield or changing it over to stamina, my main concern is them nuking reckless attacker.
I realy want to keep the Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server as well. What I was trying to say was that the shield and the Reckless Attacker feat are connected. You will have a higher chance to keep your current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, if you support the old shield mechanic! The rework of the Reckless Attacker feat was a direct consequence of the shield rework! (Proof follows further down in this post.)
Aside from supporting the current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, you brought up several other good points as well, and I hope the devs will listen. One of the most important for me is without question a need to increase our general damage output. I am for a percentage increase in weapon damage for all GF weapons. Gentlemancrush said about a percentage increase in weapon damage this (in this quote is also the connection between the stamina-guard and the proposed Reckless Attacker feat):
We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Gentlemancrush, please rethink this, a weapon damage increase affecting us across the board is exactly what we need.
(By the way, I dislike these effects that trigger if you gain 'stacks' or that 'have a chance' to trigger or/and have a hidden internal cooldown. I prefere simple, transparent, flat increases like '+3% crit'. Am I the only one who sees it that way?)
Ok i just went on the test server again and the gf is so much better. the shield lasts longer and with the increased dmg and crit from reckless attacker i could actually do decent dmg.
Reckless attacker is better now, it gains stacks fast so not sure why people are complaining there and now we finally get more crit.
Our shield is great and once the bug has been fixed it will be finally where we needed it.
I love the hp boost and move speed when blocking, really makes the gf have more options during fights.
Bugs:
Sometimes the shield goes red as if its broken when it isnt.
The bug many have already said, the shield is only defending 80% dmg max not taking other DR into account.
Again one thing i would like is the word "blocked" to appear over our shields again when we block an attack, a small change but i think its needed.
Thanks for listening crush and thanks for buffing the gf, cant wait for mod 4 now
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback: Block Movement Speed So after a decent amount of hours testing block movement speed (both PvE & PvP), I must say the new movement speed is essential, especially since we still take 20% damage through our shields of holes (which I STRONGLY recommend you remove).
Feedback: New Guard System I still get hit for 5k+ during both PvP and PvE (it's much worse in PvE. Especially when blocking dragon breath attacks !!). Ex; On the final boss on MC, I normally save Supremacy of Steel for when the dragon is about to do his lightning breath attack to reflect damage. However, this is no longer a good option for it's EXTREMELY dangerous!!! I STRONGLY recommend you scrap the 20% damage, or the stamina idea all together. The current guard meter works just fine, all it needs is a BUFF. I'm fully aware the guard meter acts as another source of HP, and you fear that will make us OP (which is false because other classes it harder than us; that's the balance). The stamina guard meter was a decent idea in all, but it's NOT gonna get the job done too the extent many players want and NEED. Please reconsider this.
Go test out the 20% damage for yourselves if you don't believe me. Not to mention the new Black Ice damage players have to deal with now.
Just looked again at the unbuffed numbers of my cleave tooltip at live and preview:
Preview server: 1321 - 1571 (0 stacks of Reckless Attacker) and 1651 - 1964 (numbers mulitplied with 1.25 to simulate 5 stacks)
Live server: 1416 - 1684 (if the guard is at 0%) and 1697 - 2019 (if guard is at 100%)
My damage output at the live server is higher, but now comes the important part: This is a side issue. Improving Reckless Attacker at the preview server to provide 10% more damage per stack won't solve the problem. The problem is HOW Reckless Attacker works. Keep the current guard/block mechanism at the live server, perhaps buff it, and leave Reckless attacker as it is too, perhaps buff it.
I just posted this to shine some light on the myth that the new Reckless Attacker feat would provide more damage for everyone.
I realy want to keep the Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server as well. What I was trying to say was that the shield and the Reckless Attacker feat are connected. You will have a higher chance to keep your current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, if you support the old shield mechanic! The rework of the Reckless Attacker feat was a direct consequence of the shield rework! (Proof follows further down in this post.)
Aside from supporting the current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, you brought up several other good points as well, and I hope the devs will listen. One of the most important for me is without question a need to increase our general damage output. I am for a percentage increase in weapon damage for all GF weapons. Gentlemancrush said about a percentage increase in weapon damage this (in this quote is also the connection between the stamina-guard and the proposed Reckless Attacker feat):
Gentlemancrush, please rethink this, a weapon damage increase affecting us across the board is exactly what we need.
(By the way, I dislike these effects that trigger if you gain 'stacks' or that 'have a chance' to trigger or/and have a hidden internal cooldown. I prefere simple, transparent, flat increases like '+3% crit'. Am I the only one who sees it that way?)
I see what you are saying now, YES I TOTALLY AGREE.
I am old school, hidden cool downs, vague supposedly bonus's do not thrill me, plain +x% damage increase does. Why nuke a class or build when minor to moderate tweeks are all that is needed.
Elve, the main difference I see right off the bat>>> my stats>>
Str= 24
Con= 18
Dex= 18
Power = 8.5k
A/p = 2.4k
Crit= 2.1k
Def= 4.1k
That's why the damages posted are low to me.
Elve, I guess my damage will increase a little bit when I get that **** weaponsmithing sword forged but not by a lot. I hate to say it guy but I doubt it will, I have compared every GF weapon in-game and I still use the Mulhonand, it is basically the only Offensive weapon we have, every other weapon is defense stat'd.
Hah, you actually got my name right from that joke of a nick I use..well done
As for your post, its my bad I did the one think I rly dislike in others - I assumed lol. Anyways PVE is a different animal altogether. I'm interested to run a dungeon with your GF just to see that damage output. You take into account things like weapon enchants Im sure. I play both fighters - both stay in PVP gear almost all the time ( even when dungeon delving ) as I have maximised my toons' ability based on Profound/Grim armor combinations. My GWF is a 17k Destroyer, he doesnt have mark nor tide of iron but he uses G.Plaguefire and along with my ArmPen Im pretty sure all mobs get to below zero Def. On top of that goes my very reliable crit and the rest of the Destroyers damage buffs. I dont see a GF coming even remotely close to that ( even with increased crit chance ).
TY.
I had thought about PF but instead went with terror, reason = the description states with your skills, I wanted a flat across the board increase that terror gave me, only wish I had higher at the moment only a lesser for now.
I also went a different armor enchant then most use= Negation and found it perks quite often, even at its lowest rank, lesser. A greater or perfect and from what I am seeing right now will be AWSOM. Talk about a def boost during those times you are really getting smacked around, man that enchant works.
Right now I cannot compare to your 17k GWF, but a 12k gwf with comparable power I can. If I had time to finish my GF and get him close to the 17k threshold "YES guy I truly believe, from what I am seeing currently that my GF will match him, or surpass him".
Why can we not just get the new reckless attacker, but without the stacks. As most people in favor of this new capstone point out, you gain the stacks quickly. However lot's of other ppl are worried that in PVP they won't get the bonus cos only way to get a kill is to get your hits in, without getting hit yourself.
By removing the need for stacks you instantly take away this concern. Without a major PVE difference. I really do not see the reason for it. Removing it will not make the new capstone OP. Just give the conqueror 25% damage boost, plus 10% crit.
I want to set some matters straight, I do not PvP personnel choice (been there done that don't need it in my entertainment.)
IMHO the following are what is needed:
1. Increase the threat power of mark and threat, not a major overhaul needed.
2. Increase the DR of the shield when it is utilized (RAISED) many have stated the old timer was ok.
3. Do not change block to stamina, why re create the wheel when it has been working for over a year, also when only a few tweeks are needed.
4. Change two of the armor sets pref T2.5 to extreme offensive nature, currently only high general and grand regent are offensive nature but mild when compared to the GWF's sets.
5. Change two of the weapon sets pref T2.5 to offensive nature, currently every one is defensive nature esp the weapon/shield bonus.
6. Raise the damage value of the GF's weapons, as it has been stated why are our weapons stat'd damage wise like a DC's.
7. Leave the conq tree as it is, this tree works.
8. Buff up the protector tree for those GF's who desire to protect/guard the parties/control the mobs.
9. Buff up the tac tree (same as above)
10. Give #8 & 9 defense buffs and defensive debuffs so that they can defend the parties and keep control of the mobs.
These changes could be made without a major overhaul, they have been done is many (countless) other MMO's, but it depends on the coding you all used when developing the game. I feel these changes would not only help the Pve crowd but also help the PvP crowd making it a win-win situation.
I am not trying to tell you dev's how to do your job( you are smarter then I am , I 'm just an old worn out ex-Marine), all I am trying to do is give you the opinion of a gamer with close to thirty years experience in gaming. Yes I started gaming on a souped up 286 with 512 megs of ram, hey at that time that was an insane gaming rig.
These changes will not favor either the PVP crowd nor the PvE crowd at the expense of the other. But it WILL enhance the entire class.
Why can we not just get the new reckless attacker, but without the stacks. As most people in favor of this new capstone point out, you gain the stacks quickly. However lot's of other ppl are worried that in PVP they won't get the bonus cos only way to get a kill is to get your hits in, without getting hit yourself.
By removing the need for stacks you instantly take away this concern. Without a major PVE difference. I really do not see the reason for it. Removing it will not make the new capstone OP. Just give the conqueror 25% damage boost, plus 10% crit.
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
Please keep it so that shield meter goes down and eventually breaks when the shield actually takes damage. Not by some kind of time meter or limit. It doesn't make sense and it's very unusefull in PvP. People will simply wait till the time is over and then attack the GF. Meaning the GF's shield is nothing more than a fancy piece of decoration within PvP.
Please... It should break because of actual damage. Like it is now. And not by a period of time. It's not only logical, it's also more realistic. Otherwise people with other classes have an advantage by just waiting till time is over. Meaning it's not balanced at all. And if you still choose to do a time limit than atleast make the time duration longer! It's too short now.
Many thanks for reading!! That's the only thing I really worry about... Thanks.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
I agree with you. And the poster above you as well.
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
Fresh, why so negative guy. No I do not use KC to me it is a lousy skill, but to others it may be great. Isn't that what this game is about diversity, different races, different builds played by those that create the toon.
Come on guy, right now is when we as GF's have to pull together not against each other. Internal strife splits the class to us against them, then we meaning the entire GF class looses.
Fresh, I know I am very frustrated also. I have done the math with those power to damage formulas posted online, and they do not come close damage wise to what we can generate currently on live.
I agree if they revert us to the old(current) on live it may be putting us right back where we were, BUT if they then buffed the shield when used(raised) to raise the DR like it should have been that's a plus.
I agree the devs have been over loaded with trying to get all the mods out in a timely manner, that they sorta forgot about the GF class. If the buffs and adjustments had come in a timely manner, hey we wouldn't be here discussing it now.
It is a touchy thing trying to buff the class without favoring PvP over Pve or vice versa, my concern is for the entire class. That's why I posted my thoughts and humble opinions in my preceding post, to help the entire class not just one aspect of the class over the other.
Lets keep it this way guy, I enjoy chatting with you, and we both want what is best for the class as a whole. You have great ideas and are really trying to test the changes on the test server and report them here.
Comments
Mr Crash
.Let us keep our "OLD" Block instead of tiring yourself out by trying to fix the bugged non needed preview one . If you insist keeping the new block for mod 4 ,the GF Class will DIE .
I think this situation can be significantly improved by increasing the general guard meter pool and/or regeneration rate of the guard meter as well as decreasing the delay until the guard meter starts recovering after taking a hit.
Additionally, I think it is ok in some cases for the guard to be broken during a fight, it makes it interesting and challenging to deal with these situations and to choose from a variety of options. I would like to see some improvements here to make it easier for us. For example, one could reduce the casting time of fighter's recovery (Kessel's Retreat anyone?). Another tweak has already been introduced at the live server, and you mentioned it: CON providing more hp, and thus helping us also to deal a bit better with damage spikes. One last thing about this: I am writing this from the perspective of a conqueror GF who is ok with beeing not that strong on the defensive side, I like evading or having to resort to something else than blocking.
Nevertheless I understand that there are protectors and probably tacticians who rightfully want their guard to be less easy broken if a volley of attacks hails down on them, and who want more tankiness. What I suggest is for them to get buffs to their feats deeper in their respective tree to boost what I wrote in the first paragraph or/and other creative ways to help them in this situation. I feel that there hasn't been made a serious attempt at exploring the creativity here. If I had to be the first one to step up and present ideas, well here is the first one from the top of my head:
Imagine to get (significantly!) higher damage resistance (and maybe CC immunity) x seconds to all damage once your guard is broken. This effect can only occur again after the guard meter has taped the 100% mark. Alternatively this effect could only trigger once in y seconds. (But I am not much a friend of these 'can only happen once in 90 seconds' time gates). Btw I'd love to see that underlined by some sound/graphics like chinking sparks flying of the armor. :cool:
BLOCK
we are still taking more dmg than we should through block it just a reminder this needs a fix then it will be perfect get to it devs
PLEASE add "blocked" back to the game for when you block attacks, its only a small change but it should have not been taken off.
Im Happy with everything else now, thanks for listening to people and making our class more balanced i really feel like mod 4 will make the game more fun for the gf players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
while blocking dont get 80% reduction dmg + your DR actually just get 41.176405 % of dmg reduction
Reckless Attacker dont increases your dmg only increases the crit chance
FLS still prone players
sometimes the cc affects you while blocking
idk why but sometimes your power down 70 % while blocking
feedback:
Guarded assault need to improve at least 15% of dmg returns
Change Knee breaker is too easy avoid /low range/slow motion
iron warrior / knight´s valor/Villian menace need buffed up whit dmg resit
Shielded resurgence/GRit/TAke a measure/ into the fray need to increase the amount of hit points
whille charge whit lunging strike your will get inmunity cc like root/slow
Iron Guard your shield now block 90/100% incoming dmg and reduces ATK speed/casting speed every enemy hit you
Martyal mastery while fight vs numerous enemies gain more action point
Finally the GF needs an increase in general DR make him better tank than the GWF in any event
The new Block was supposed to be based on Stamina Now, not DPS/Hits is that correct?
The reason I Ask is I just spent 1 hour doing solo trolls Elite etc and 5=1 add pulls to test block etc
1: Block went down in 4 seconds when pulling 5-10 adds but to my understanding its not about how many times you get HIT now its based on the Stamna Value Class Feature +30% Set means I get 10-11 seconds of 80% block Value/Ability and no amount of hits should take away from that time
2: Seems the Guard Icon is bugged some times will be full then Instantly Empty
3: Skills that restore Stamina Show it going to max Instantly not over 8 seconds
Seems Block is going down Very fast against enemys like its STILL based on Damage and not stamina or perhaps maybe I have understood it wrong
Anyone Clarify please?
Any combat action during the animation (before the red line appears) will cancel the cast and put the power on cooldown w/o any affect. On rare occasions this can make the skill completely uncastable until it is removed from the active power slot.
I have read and more importantly I have inspected (in game) other GF's (many, many GF's)and due to the research I have discovered that not all, but close to 75% of the players complaining about the GF class being so lousy isn't because of the class, its because of them.
I see many GF's with racial abilities that do not match what they are trying to be and MOST importantly their basic ability scores, yes STR,CON,DEX are pathetic, do you guys even know u can roll the dice to gain the best set of abilities for your racial selection and class, No I don't think 3/4 of you do. I think you get in such a hurry to make your toon you completely skip that part accepting the stock dice roll for your starting stats. Then when your GF turns out so lousy "Ohhh this class stinks it needs the devs to re do it" !!!
I have seen GF's in complete mismatched armor sets, NO I am not talking about someone going 2/2, or 4/4, I am talking about players going 4/1 meaning no set bonus what so ever, four different pieces from four different sets, but its still the class fault, not theirs that their GF stinks.
Or people that get the PVP set and complain because they do so poorly in PVE, OR the Pve sets and do so poorly in PVP, there are specific builds best suited to PVP and there are specific builds best suited for PVE, learn them and utilize them before you go shouting ohhhhh the GF class is lousy.
But my biggest laugh is from people that want to hide behind a shield. Do you even realize why the GWF has replaced the GF in groups, do you?
Its because of the damage they generate. Damage against a mob is a form of CC, it pulls the boss to them hence the adds direct also towards where the boss is pulled. That is a basic formula of MMO's and it was one of the first forms of CC in any MMO. He who does the most damage pulls the mob.
Then taunt entered the scene, it is a form of damage without causing physical damage, which over powered MOST if not all the DD's. Then it became a game of increasing the damage the GWF's, Nukers and rangers did against the taunt (mark in this game) that the GF's did, without over powering the GF ( guess what someone forgot to adjust the marks power that's why you can no longer control the mobs). The marks power is lower then the damage that the GWF, Nukers and rangers generate, hence they pull the mobs from you.
The main reason other people do not want a GF in their group isn't due to CC, its because even a little girl holding up a cross can do more damage then you do, yeah I'm talking about a cleric.
You think (as a GF)your supposed to hide behind your shield (which in your thinking is supposed to block 100% of all damage against you) and spam mark and the mobs and boss are just magically supposedly to fall in love with you, waltz over and stand by your side, while the rest of the group hails damage upon them.
Get a grip people. As a GF you first MARK, then deal damage (which a GF can do if you know what the heck you are doing when you build him) and only upon the most damaging assaults, raise your shield to block them. You don't just stand there holding your shield up for 30-45 seconds till the rest of your group kills the mob, that's the mentality that has put all the GF's out of the parties. Parties want players that can deal damage so the group doesn't spend 2 hours in a dungeon trying to whittle down or bore a boss to death.
Parties have a limited # of slots, so if a group goes in with only 1-2 DD's it takes forever to kill a boss, along with the added expense of pots and IF the healer goes down the party goes down. A group of DD's even without a healer can control the boss and mobs by selectively hitting and actually pulling the boss and mobs from one player to the other, forcing the boss and mobs to kite between them hence lowering the damage they put out to the group.
Most GWF's do not have half the defense that a lot of you GF's have and they don't have a shield, SO why do you feel you have to stand there and hide behind a shield to be effective. YOU DON"T, you have skills that most of you are not using, prob don't even know about. You can generate damage very comparable to a GWF, which when combined with your taunts(marks) would hold the mob on you allowing you to control it. But you cannot mark a mob then stand there with your shield raised and use that skill that pokes over the top of it at the mob(never used it so don't even know its name, worthless skill) and expect the mob to hold to you.
SO instead of you educating yourself about the class or repairing a broken toon that you made, you come crying to the devs to fix your mistakes!
Now they are going to fix it oky, yeah they are going to fix it for the demands and wishes of the PVP crowd.
Currently on the test server with my new spec I am doing a lot more damage with the current changes to mark and having the increase to crit strike is a plus pve and pvp wise. I am not going to try and fight what is being done at this point because with the initial change to block I was apprehensive but now with the increased duration I am very happy with the change(even with the current dr bug). Even with the change to RA I can see the positive points I have said what will worry me already but since there is no real reason to go back to the old RA since block will decrease without being hit its better that this change is done at the same time.
Yes other paths need this attention as well with the change to block being a core part of our class the other paths need some more attention if they are to be just as attractive as conq in their respective ways. Protector could use some kind of stack mechanic where after so many hits you get a % heal. And for Tactician it will have to involve ap gain(maybe a higher gain from encounters) and a cc bonus of some kind.
If we can get past all the gloom and doom and start actually figuring out how to play with the new block we can probably get some new capstones for prot and tact which I am sure some gfs would very much enjoy.
Block
Block is capped at 80% DR. And since it is DR, things like thornward can reduce it zero, so I am holding my shield and taking full damage. So once that is fixed it will be a beast. I was able to keep near continuous block for 50 seconds of a minute, and that was max feated, max artifacts, max strength, max stamina gain via boons, so that could be good, but it should be increased because with that set up you aren't going to hurt anything. But like I said, currently it can be mitigated to nothing
Capstone
5% damage is rough testing right now, the crit is ok, but 20% damage increase will be a BIG noticeable difference.
Before anyone tests again
Lets let Crush fix the block, if it is meant to be mitigated, then I would then suggest a revert and leaving the capstone where it is. If our block can be mitigated, there are some classes that can reduce it zero, essentially making it useless.
Not sure if your Post is a Troll post of a Rage post but in most games where you are a Tank The Shield is the main defence however I agree to a certain extent that you can better in most cases with a GWF than GF due to Determination / Unstoppable Vrs Guard, However if Guard is fixed in Mod4 hopefully Itll change as it is now still Kinda Bugged
For reference Think of some of the Common MMOS going back that had Tanks
LOTRO - GF/Warden Block ussually the main defence and Parry for Warden OR block
Tera - Lancer - Stand Fast (Possibly the best Block Skill Ever) I Also loved Lancer
Wow - Warrior / Paladin Shield is the main Defence
Using dailies like crescendo causes immense lag
That big lag spike is because (well in my cases) - you/we are hitting shift to block before the daily is done. Since our block now interrupts all of our moves and lets us cancel things we don't want to use. It can do this with the daily, but it FREAKS out the game and makes us lag SUPER bad. I tested and got it to work 4/5 times just using the daily, and then blocking.
I AGREE WITH YOU.
*the new blocking with this duration time is good.*
MY SUGGESTIONS:
1- The most thing that GFs need is "CC IMMUNITY". add our passive skills, encounters or feats some cc immunity.
Killing a controlled tank doesnt cost more than 2 seconds.
2- Make the capstone buff more reachable. If you take 5 hit in pvp, you probably got controlled. Controlled tank means dead tank.
3- Just give us a "easy to apply" single target or an aoe skill like FLS that we could use instead of FLS. All of our encounters are easy to dodge. Even when the target only walks. (im not gonna use FLS in pvp. It hits like 7 year-old girl after the damage nerf and no prone
mfgamesys, that's been my point the whole time, the prot and tac trees are the ones that are broke, why mess with the conq tree it is the only one that "was" working.
I realy want to keep the Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server as well. What I was trying to say was that the shield and the Reckless Attacker feat are connected. You will have a higher chance to keep your current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, if you support the old shield mechanic! The rework of the Reckless Attacker feat was a direct consequence of the shield rework! (Proof follows further down in this post.)
Aside from supporting the current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, you brought up several other good points as well, and I hope the devs will listen. One of the most important for me is without question a need to increase our general damage output. I am for a percentage increase in weapon damage for all GF weapons. Gentlemancrush said about a percentage increase in weapon damage this (in this quote is also the connection between the stamina-guard and the proposed Reckless Attacker feat):
Gentlemancrush, please rethink this, a weapon damage increase affecting us across the board is exactly what we need.
(By the way, I dislike these effects that trigger if you gain 'stacks' or that 'have a chance' to trigger or/and have a hidden internal cooldown. I prefere simple, transparent, flat increases like '+3% crit'. Am I the only one who sees it that way?)
Ok i just went on the test server again and the gf is so much better. the shield lasts longer and with the increased dmg and crit from reckless attacker i could actually do decent dmg.
Reckless attacker is better now, it gains stacks fast so not sure why people are complaining there and now we finally get more crit.
Our shield is great and once the bug has been fixed it will be finally where we needed it.
I love the hp boost and move speed when blocking, really makes the gf have more options during fights.
Bugs:
Sometimes the shield goes red as if its broken when it isnt.
The bug many have already said, the shield is only defending 80% dmg max not taking other DR into account.
Again one thing i would like is the word "blocked" to appear over our shields again when we block an attack, a small change but i think its needed.
Thanks for listening crush and thanks for buffing the gf, cant wait for mod 4 now
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So after a decent amount of hours testing block movement speed (both PvE & PvP), I must say the new movement speed is essential, especially since we still take 20% damage through our shields of holes (which I STRONGLY recommend you remove).
Feedback: New Guard System
I still get hit for 5k+ during both PvP and PvE (it's much worse in PvE. Especially when blocking dragon breath attacks
Go test out the 20% damage for yourselves if you don't believe me. Not to mention the new Black Ice damage players have to deal with now.
Preview server: 1321 - 1571 (0 stacks of Reckless Attacker) and 1651 - 1964 (numbers mulitplied with 1.25 to simulate 5 stacks)
Live server: 1416 - 1684 (if the guard is at 0%) and 1697 - 2019 (if guard is at 100%)
My damage output at the live server is higher, but now comes the important part: This is a side issue. Improving Reckless Attacker at the preview server to provide 10% more damage per stack won't solve the problem. The problem is HOW Reckless Attacker works. Keep the current guard/block mechanism at the live server, perhaps buff it, and leave Reckless attacker as it is too, perhaps buff it.
I just posted this to shine some light on the myth that the new Reckless Attacker feat would provide more damage for everyone.
I see what you are saying now, YES I TOTALLY AGREE.
I am old school, hidden cool downs, vague supposedly bonus's do not thrill me, plain +x% damage increase does. Why nuke a class or build when minor to moderate tweeks are all that is needed.
Elve, the main difference I see right off the bat>>> my stats>>
Str= 24
Con= 18
Dex= 18
Power = 8.5k
A/p = 2.4k
Crit= 2.1k
Def= 4.1k
That's why the damages posted are low to me.
Elve, I guess my damage will increase a little bit when I get that **** weaponsmithing sword forged but not by a lot.
I hate to say it guy but I doubt it will, I have compared every GF weapon in-game and I still use the Mulhonand, it is basically the only Offensive weapon we have, every other weapon is defense stat'd.
I had thought about PF but instead went with terror, reason = the description states with your skills, I wanted a flat across the board increase that terror gave me, only wish I had higher at the moment only a lesser for now.
I also went a different armor enchant then most use= Negation and found it perks quite often, even at its lowest rank, lesser. A greater or perfect and from what I am seeing right now will be AWSOM. Talk about a def boost during those times you are really getting smacked around, man that enchant works.
Right now I cannot compare to your 17k GWF, but a 12k gwf with comparable power I can. If I had time to finish my GF and get him close to the 17k threshold "YES guy I truly believe, from what I am seeing currently that my GF will match him, or surpass him".
By removing the need for stacks you instantly take away this concern. Without a major PVE difference. I really do not see the reason for it. Removing it will not make the new capstone OP. Just give the conqueror 25% damage boost, plus 10% crit.
I want to set some matters straight, I do not PvP personnel choice (been there done that don't need it in my entertainment.)
IMHO the following are what is needed:
1. Increase the threat power of mark and threat, not a major overhaul needed.
2. Increase the DR of the shield when it is utilized (RAISED) many have stated the old timer was ok.
3. Do not change block to stamina, why re create the wheel when it has been working for over a year, also when only a few tweeks are needed.
4. Change two of the armor sets pref T2.5 to extreme offensive nature, currently only high general and grand regent are offensive nature but mild when compared to the GWF's sets.
5. Change two of the weapon sets pref T2.5 to offensive nature, currently every one is defensive nature esp the weapon/shield bonus.
6. Raise the damage value of the GF's weapons, as it has been stated why are our weapons stat'd damage wise like a DC's.
7. Leave the conq tree as it is, this tree works.
8. Buff up the protector tree for those GF's who desire to protect/guard the parties/control the mobs.
9. Buff up the tac tree (same as above)
10. Give #8 & 9 defense buffs and defensive debuffs so that they can defend the parties and keep control of the mobs.
These changes could be made without a major overhaul, they have been done is many (countless) other MMO's, but it depends on the coding you all used when developing the game. I feel these changes would not only help the Pve crowd but also help the PvP crowd making it a win-win situation.
I am not trying to tell you dev's how to do your job( you are smarter then I am , I 'm just an old worn out ex-Marine), all I am trying to do is give you the opinion of a gamer with close to thirty years experience in gaming. Yes I started gaming on a souped up 286 with 512 megs of ram, hey at that time that was an insane gaming rig.
These changes will not favor either the PVP crowd nor the PvE crowd at the expense of the other. But it WILL enhance the entire class.
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
Please keep it so that shield meter goes down and eventually breaks when the shield actually takes damage. Not by some kind of time meter or limit. It doesn't make sense and it's very unusefull in PvP. People will simply wait till the time is over and then attack the GF. Meaning the GF's shield is nothing more than a fancy piece of decoration within PvP.
Please... It should break because of actual damage. Like it is now. And not by a period of time. It's not only logical, it's also more realistic. Otherwise people with other classes have an advantage by just waiting till time is over. Meaning it's not balanced at all. And if you still choose to do a time limit than atleast make the time duration longer! It's too short now.
Many thanks for reading!! That's the only thing I really worry about... Thanks.
I agree with you. And the poster above you as well.
Fresh, why so negative guy. No I do not use KC to me it is a lousy skill, but to others it may be great. Isn't that what this game is about diversity, different races, different builds played by those that create the toon.
Come on guy, right now is when we as GF's have to pull together not against each other. Internal strife splits the class to us against them, then we meaning the entire GF class looses.
I agree if they revert us to the old(current) on live it may be putting us right back where we were, BUT if they then buffed the shield when used(raised) to raise the DR like it should have been that's a plus.
I agree the devs have been over loaded with trying to get all the mods out in a timely manner, that they sorta forgot about the GF class. If the buffs and adjustments had come in a timely manner, hey we wouldn't be here discussing it now.
It is a touchy thing trying to buff the class without favoring PvP over Pve or vice versa, my concern is for the entire class. That's why I posted my thoughts and humble opinions in my preceding post, to help the entire class not just one aspect of the class over the other.
Lets keep it this way guy, I enjoy chatting with you, and we both want what is best for the class as a whole. You have great ideas and are really trying to test the changes on the test server and report them here.