Yes pve is important I use to do it and never bothered with pvp.
Currently on the test server with my new spec I am doing a lot more damage with the current changes to mark and having the increase to crit strike is a plus pve and pvp wise. I am not going to try and fight what is being done at this point because with the initial change to block I was apprehensive but now with the increased duration I am very happy with the change(even with the current dr bug). Even with the change to RA I can see the positive points I have said what will worry me already but since there is no real reason to go back to the old RA since block will decrease without being hit its better that this change is done at the same time.
Yes other paths need this attention as well with the change to block being a core part of our class the other paths need some more attention if they are to be just as attractive as conq in their respective ways. Protector could use some kind of stack mechanic where after so many hits you get a % heal. And for Tactician it will have to involve ap gain(maybe a higher gain from encounters) and a cc bonus of some kind.
If we can get past all the gloom and doom and start actually figuring out how to play with the new block we can probably get some new capstones for prot and tact which I am sure some gfs would very much enjoy.
From what I have found via testing. Our block is not where it is going to be.
Block
Block is capped at 80% DR. And since it is DR, things like thornward can reduce it zero, so I am holding my shield and taking full damage. So once that is fixed it will be a beast. I was able to keep near continuous block for 50 seconds of a minute, and that was max feated, max artifacts, max strength, max stamina gain via boons, so that could be good, but it should be increased because with that set up you aren't going to hurt anything. But like I said, currently it can be mitigated to nothing
Capstone
5% damage is rough testing right now, the crit is ok, but 20% damage increase will be a BIG noticeable difference.
Before anyone tests again
Lets let Crush fix the block, if it is meant to be mitigated, then I would then suggest a revert and leaving the capstone where it is. If our block can be mitigated, there are some classes that can reduce it zero, essentially making it useless.
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l3g10nna1reMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
edited July 2014
@ thesleeper55
Not sure if your Post is a Troll post of a Rage post but in most games where you are a Tank The Shield is the main defence however I agree to a certain extent that you can better in most cases with a GWF than GF due to Determination / Unstoppable Vrs Guard, However if Guard is fixed in Mod4 hopefully Itll change as it is now still Kinda Bugged
For reference Think of some of the Common MMOS going back that had Tanks
LOTRO - GF/Warden Block ussually the main defence and Parry for Warden OR block
Tera - Lancer - Stand Fast (Possibly the best Block Skill Ever) I Also loved Lancer
Wow - Warrior / Paladin Shield is the main Defence
Bug
Using dailies like crescendo causes immense lag
That big lag spike is because (well in my cases) - you/we are hitting shift to block before the daily is done. Since our block now interrupts all of our moves and lets us cancel things we don't want to use. It can do this with the daily, but it FREAKS out the game and makes us lag SUPER bad. I tested and got it to work 4/5 times just using the daily, and then blocking.
The new RA feat is too slow to stack. 5 hits means at least 2 secs the GF will luck the current damage.
Most,if not all Gfs use Lunging strike as their first assigned power both in pve/pvp.Followed by Bull/GW or FS.That means tha in the most crucial moment,the beginning of the battle,the stacks will not be full yet.
Proposal:
Make 3 stacks of 10% and crit by 4% each.
I AGREE WITH YOU.
*the new blocking with this duration time is good.*
MY SUGGESTIONS:
1- The most thing that GFs need is "CC IMMUNITY". add our passive skills, encounters or feats some cc immunity.
Killing a controlled tank doesnt cost more than 2 seconds.
2- Make the capstone buff more reachable. If you take 5 hit in pvp, you probably got controlled. Controlled tank means dead tank.
3- Just give us a "easy to apply" single target or an aoe skill like FLS that we could use instead of FLS. All of our encounters are easy to dodge. Even when the target only walks. (im not gonna use FLS in pvp. It hits like 7 year-old girl after the damage nerf and no prone .)
Yes pve is important I use to do it and never bothered with pvp.
Currently on the test server with my new spec I am doing a lot more damage with the current changes to mark and having the increase to crit strike is a plus pve and pvp wise. I am not going to try and fight what is being done at this point because with the initial change to block I was apprehensive but now with the increased duration I am very happy with the change(even with the current dr bug). Even with the change to RA I can see the positive points I have said what will worry me already but since there is no real reason to go back to the old RA since block will decrease without being hit its better that this change is done at the same time.
Yes other paths need this attention as well with the change to block being a core part of our class the other paths need some more attention if they are to be just as attractive as conq in their respective ways. Protector could use some kind of stack mechanic where after so many hits you get a % heal. And for Tactician it will have to involve ap gain(maybe a higher gain from encounters) and a cc bonus of some kind.
If we can get past all the gloom and doom and start actually figuring out how to play with the new block we can probably get some new capstones for prot and tact which I am sure some gfs would very much enjoy.
mfgamesys, that's been my point the whole time, the prot and tac trees are the ones that are broke, why mess with the conq tree it is the only one that "was" working.
ctf, I really do not have any problems with the changes to the shield or changing it over to stamina, my main concern is them nuking reckless attacker.
I realy want to keep the Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server as well. What I was trying to say was that the shield and the Reckless Attacker feat are connected. You will have a higher chance to keep your current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, if you support the old shield mechanic! The rework of the Reckless Attacker feat was a direct consequence of the shield rework! (Proof follows further down in this post.)
Aside from supporting the current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, you brought up several other good points as well, and I hope the devs will listen. One of the most important for me is without question a need to increase our general damage output. I am for a percentage increase in weapon damage for all GF weapons. Gentlemancrush said about a percentage increase in weapon damage this (in this quote is also the connection between the stamina-guard and the proposed Reckless Attacker feat):
We do want Guardians to deal a little more damage personally without major overhauls to power ratios or weapon damage because those things factor into many different places in combat, so we are making another change to mark to facilitate more damage. Additionally we are reworking Reckless Attacker to make more sense with the new block and be much easier to comprehend and use.
Gentlemancrush, please rethink this, a weapon damage increase affecting us across the board is exactly what we need.
(By the way, I dislike these effects that trigger if you gain 'stacks' or that 'have a chance' to trigger or/and have a hidden internal cooldown. I prefere simple, transparent, flat increases like '+3% crit'. Am I the only one who sees it that way?)
Ok i just went on the test server again and the gf is so much better. the shield lasts longer and with the increased dmg and crit from reckless attacker i could actually do decent dmg.
Reckless attacker is better now, it gains stacks fast so not sure why people are complaining there and now we finally get more crit.
Our shield is great and once the bug has been fixed it will be finally where we needed it.
I love the hp boost and move speed when blocking, really makes the gf have more options during fights.
Bugs:
Sometimes the shield goes red as if its broken when it isnt.
The bug many have already said, the shield is only defending 80% dmg max not taking other DR into account.
Again one thing i would like is the word "blocked" to appear over our shields again when we block an attack, a small change but i think its needed.
Thanks for listening crush and thanks for buffing the gf, cant wait for mod 4 now
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback: Block Movement Speed So after a decent amount of hours testing block movement speed (both PvE & PvP), I must say the new movement speed is essential, especially since we still take 20% damage through our shields of holes (which I STRONGLY recommend you remove).
Feedback: New Guard System I still get hit for 5k+ during both PvP and PvE (it's much worse in PvE. Especially when blocking dragon breath attacks !!). Ex; On the final boss on MC, I normally save Supremacy of Steel for when the dragon is about to do his lightning breath attack to reflect damage. However, this is no longer a good option for it's EXTREMELY dangerous!!! I STRONGLY recommend you scrap the 20% damage, or the stamina idea all together. The current guard meter works just fine, all it needs is a BUFF. I'm fully aware the guard meter acts as another source of HP, and you fear that will make us OP (which is false because other classes it harder than us; that's the balance). The stamina guard meter was a decent idea in all, but it's NOT gonna get the job done too the extent many players want and NEED. Please reconsider this.
Go test out the 20% damage for yourselves if you don't believe me. Not to mention the new Black Ice damage players have to deal with now.
Just looked again at the unbuffed numbers of my cleave tooltip at live and preview:
Preview server: 1321 - 1571 (0 stacks of Reckless Attacker) and 1651 - 1964 (numbers mulitplied with 1.25 to simulate 5 stacks)
Live server: 1416 - 1684 (if the guard is at 0%) and 1697 - 2019 (if guard is at 100%)
My damage output at the live server is higher, but now comes the important part: This is a side issue. Improving Reckless Attacker at the preview server to provide 10% more damage per stack won't solve the problem. The problem is HOW Reckless Attacker works. Keep the current guard/block mechanism at the live server, perhaps buff it, and leave Reckless attacker as it is too, perhaps buff it.
I just posted this to shine some light on the myth that the new Reckless Attacker feat would provide more damage for everyone.
I realy want to keep the Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server as well. What I was trying to say was that the shield and the Reckless Attacker feat are connected. You will have a higher chance to keep your current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, if you support the old shield mechanic! The rework of the Reckless Attacker feat was a direct consequence of the shield rework! (Proof follows further down in this post.)
Aside from supporting the current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, you brought up several other good points as well, and I hope the devs will listen. One of the most important for me is without question a need to increase our general damage output. I am for a percentage increase in weapon damage for all GF weapons. Gentlemancrush said about a percentage increase in weapon damage this (in this quote is also the connection between the stamina-guard and the proposed Reckless Attacker feat):
Gentlemancrush, please rethink this, a weapon damage increase affecting us across the board is exactly what we need.
(By the way, I dislike these effects that trigger if you gain 'stacks' or that 'have a chance' to trigger or/and have a hidden internal cooldown. I prefere simple, transparent, flat increases like '+3% crit'. Am I the only one who sees it that way?)
I see what you are saying now, YES I TOTALLY AGREE.
I am old school, hidden cool downs, vague supposedly bonus's do not thrill me, plain +x% damage increase does. Why nuke a class or build when minor to moderate tweeks are all that is needed.
Elve, the main difference I see right off the bat>>> my stats>>
Str= 24
Con= 18
Dex= 18
Power = 8.5k
A/p = 2.4k
Crit= 2.1k
Def= 4.1k
That's why the damages posted are low to me.
Elve, I guess my damage will increase a little bit when I get that **** weaponsmithing sword forged but not by a lot. I hate to say it guy but I doubt it will, I have compared every GF weapon in-game and I still use the Mulhonand, it is basically the only Offensive weapon we have, every other weapon is defense stat'd.
Hah, you actually got my name right from that joke of a nick I use..well done
As for your post, its my bad I did the one think I rly dislike in others - I assumed lol. Anyways PVE is a different animal altogether. I'm interested to run a dungeon with your GF just to see that damage output. You take into account things like weapon enchants Im sure. I play both fighters - both stay in PVP gear almost all the time ( even when dungeon delving ) as I have maximised my toons' ability based on Profound/Grim armor combinations. My GWF is a 17k Destroyer, he doesnt have mark nor tide of iron but he uses G.Plaguefire and along with my ArmPen Im pretty sure all mobs get to below zero Def. On top of that goes my very reliable crit and the rest of the Destroyers damage buffs. I dont see a GF coming even remotely close to that ( even with increased crit chance ).
TY.
I had thought about PF but instead went with terror, reason = the description states with your skills, I wanted a flat across the board increase that terror gave me, only wish I had higher at the moment only a lesser for now.
I also went a different armor enchant then most use= Negation and found it perks quite often, even at its lowest rank, lesser. A greater or perfect and from what I am seeing right now will be AWSOM. Talk about a def boost during those times you are really getting smacked around, man that enchant works.
Right now I cannot compare to your 17k GWF, but a 12k gwf with comparable power I can. If I had time to finish my GF and get him close to the 17k threshold "YES guy I truly believe, from what I am seeing currently that my GF will match him, or surpass him".
Why can we not just get the new reckless attacker, but without the stacks. As most people in favor of this new capstone point out, you gain the stacks quickly. However lot's of other ppl are worried that in PVP they won't get the bonus cos only way to get a kill is to get your hits in, without getting hit yourself.
By removing the need for stacks you instantly take away this concern. Without a major PVE difference. I really do not see the reason for it. Removing it will not make the new capstone OP. Just give the conqueror 25% damage boost, plus 10% crit.
I want to set some matters straight, I do not PvP personnel choice (been there done that don't need it in my entertainment.)
IMHO the following are what is needed:
1. Increase the threat power of mark and threat, not a major overhaul needed.
2. Increase the DR of the shield when it is utilized (RAISED) many have stated the old timer was ok.
3. Do not change block to stamina, why re create the wheel when it has been working for over a year, also when only a few tweeks are needed.
4. Change two of the armor sets pref T2.5 to extreme offensive nature, currently only high general and grand regent are offensive nature but mild when compared to the GWF's sets.
5. Change two of the weapon sets pref T2.5 to offensive nature, currently every one is defensive nature esp the weapon/shield bonus.
6. Raise the damage value of the GF's weapons, as it has been stated why are our weapons stat'd damage wise like a DC's.
7. Leave the conq tree as it is, this tree works.
8. Buff up the protector tree for those GF's who desire to protect/guard the parties/control the mobs.
9. Buff up the tac tree (same as above)
10. Give #8 & 9 defense buffs and defensive debuffs so that they can defend the parties and keep control of the mobs.
These changes could be made without a major overhaul, they have been done is many (countless) other MMO's, but it depends on the coding you all used when developing the game. I feel these changes would not only help the Pve crowd but also help the PvP crowd making it a win-win situation.
I am not trying to tell you dev's how to do your job( you are smarter then I am , I 'm just an old worn out ex-Marine), all I am trying to do is give you the opinion of a gamer with close to thirty years experience in gaming. Yes I started gaming on a souped up 286 with 512 megs of ram, hey at that time that was an insane gaming rig.
These changes will not favor either the PVP crowd nor the PvE crowd at the expense of the other. But it WILL enhance the entire class.
Why can we not just get the new reckless attacker, but without the stacks. As most people in favor of this new capstone point out, you gain the stacks quickly. However lot's of other ppl are worried that in PVP they won't get the bonus cos only way to get a kill is to get your hits in, without getting hit yourself.
By removing the need for stacks you instantly take away this concern. Without a major PVE difference. I really do not see the reason for it. Removing it will not make the new capstone OP. Just give the conqueror 25% damage boost, plus 10% crit.
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
Please keep it so that shield meter goes down and eventually breaks when the shield actually takes damage. Not by some kind of time meter or limit. It doesn't make sense and it's very unusefull in PvP. People will simply wait till the time is over and then attack the GF. Meaning the GF's shield is nothing more than a fancy piece of decoration within PvP.
Please... It should break because of actual damage. Like it is now. And not by a period of time. It's not only logical, it's also more realistic. Otherwise people with other classes have an advantage by just waiting till time is over. Meaning it's not balanced at all. And if you still choose to do a time limit than atleast make the time duration longer! It's too short now.
Many thanks for reading!! That's the only thing I really worry about... Thanks.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
I agree with you. And the poster above you as well.
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
Fresh, why so negative guy. No I do not use KC to me it is a lousy skill, but to others it may be great. Isn't that what this game is about diversity, different races, different builds played by those that create the toon.
Come on guy, right now is when we as GF's have to pull together not against each other. Internal strife splits the class to us against them, then we meaning the entire GF class looses.
Fresh, I know I am very frustrated also. I have done the math with those power to damage formulas posted online, and they do not come close damage wise to what we can generate currently on live.
I agree if they revert us to the old(current) on live it may be putting us right back where we were, BUT if they then buffed the shield when used(raised) to raise the DR like it should have been that's a plus.
I agree the devs have been over loaded with trying to get all the mods out in a timely manner, that they sorta forgot about the GF class. If the buffs and adjustments had come in a timely manner, hey we wouldn't be here discussing it now.
It is a touchy thing trying to buff the class without favoring PvP over Pve or vice versa, my concern is for the entire class. That's why I posted my thoughts and humble opinions in my preceding post, to help the entire class not just one aspect of the class over the other.
Lets keep it this way guy, I enjoy chatting with you, and we both want what is best for the class as a whole. You have great ideas and are really trying to test the changes on the test server and report them here.
The higher the gearscore of your party, the less tanking is required and the lower is your chance as a GF to get a slot in the party, because the stronger parties control and dps everything down very fast. The proposed Reckless Attacker feat that is at the preview server makes this situation even worse, and this is why:
Since the mobs die fast and painless in stronger parties, you will take less damage and thus the new reckless attacker feat would proc less. Sometimes not a single mob of a pack gets the opportunity to attack at all, so the new reckless attacker wouldn't give you a single stack. This means that parties of higher gearscore that already are not interested in bringing tanking abilities to the party now have even less interest in taking a GF since your dps is lower when running with them.
With the reckless attacker feat of the live server the situation is vice versa - You still have a low chance to get invited to stronger parties but at least you deal more damage in these parties since your guard meter doesn't deplete as much with them. And that means your chance to get invited by a stronger party is a little less low.
If we don't switch to the stamina-guard we can keep our old reckless attacker feat which synergizes well with stronger parties. That makes us more desirable for these stronger parties, and increases our chance to get an invite from them. Stop the stamina-guard!
I agree with you, most parties are all about DPS, Cc comes in second when DPS can control the mob. I have said it before its a true statement for any MMO "he who does the most damage controls the mob".
Right now on live, threat and improved threat are destructive taunts, they deal damage, which is easily over ridden by the insane damages GWF's, Nukers and rangers can dish out. In other games the taunts were not damage based, meaning they did not damage the mobs, but had a higher pull then physical damage did, sounds confusing doesn't it. In those other games their taunt was like our tab>mark, it caused no damage but pulled the mob to you.
If the taunts or threats in this game were changed to utilize the tab>mark mechanics but stronger, so its power would be higher then the damages other classes can generate that would fix the problem, without over powering the GF.
I think this is what the devs/crush is trying to do, but no disrespect to the devs/crush your making it so complicated I cannot understand what your trying to do.
The fact that ET now is capped at 20 we will get the most aggro and sustain from it compared to a cw who does more dps since singularity only does 8 which is what our current ET is on live. If you are worried about threat in mod 4 please know that ET having a higher mob count also means more dps for us in pve which means alot more threat than what we can generate. ET will become the number one encounter in pve hands down for large groups of mobs.
I swear our glowing finger power will save us in pve!
mfg, not quite sure I am understanding you, so correct me if I am wrong here guy. The number of mobs you can pull isn't the same as the amount of power you exert upon them to hold them on you. Its like currently on live and most every other game, you hit a target for 20k damage and someone hits it for 25k damage the mob is going to mitigate towards the higher damage. This is the problem every mmo has faced with Cc toons. The power to pull or hold the mob onto you has to be higher than the damages other players can generate, or else the mob moves. Well if you increase the damage based Cc against a mob you create an unfairly over powered toon. So the power to pull the mobs has to be non damaging to the mobs or else a DC with a high damaging Cc could out damage a DD toon. With me so far?
Currently our threats are damage based, meaning they exert xx# of points damage against a mob to pull it toward you, well a DD smacks the mob for twice the amount of damage your threat did, the mob goes to him.
Our threats need to be non damage based, and that value set to be first selected by the mob, instead of pure damage based Cc. A group of 4 archers because of their high burst damage can go into an epic and space themselves apart then time their ranged attacks correctly so that the boss is constantly pulled from one archer to the other, this allows the group to control the boss and allows none of the archers to sustain massive damage from the boss, since it is being pulled from one archer to the other then the other so forth and so forth, til the boss is dead (that's Old school before Cc was even installed into any games).
Hey all, we have a few more changes hopefully hitting this week.
Unstoppable: Now grants 15~30% DR when activated (up from 10~20%).
Sprint: Stamina cost of Sprint reduced by roughly 40%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
see even in mod 4 no dd for us gwf senti again takes our place
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Feature: Guarded Assault
This Feature remains extremely lacklustre andcould use a rework or increase in reflected damage, or be calculated based on pre-modified damage
I will post this again, the protector tree needs MORE love.
A protector GF sacrifices all his damage to get high survivability and to protect his teammates. I think that the ideas behind the feats are good, the problem is that the feats are not strong enough and need to be buffed.
Suggestions:
Armor of bahamut: I really like the change to this feat, but I think it's too strong for a T1 feat and needs to be moved deeper in the protector tree.
Shield defense: Gain 2/4/6/8/10 to AC.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly.
Brawling Warrior: Knight's valor increases you damage resistance by 2/4/6/8/10% and enforced threat deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% more damage and threat.
Balanced shield fighter: your shield slam and stab at wills deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage.
Overwhelming impact: supremacy of steel and terrifying impact now temporarily reduce damage resistance by 1/2/3/4/5% and damage dealt by 1/2/3/4/5% on affected targets.
Iron guard: Each time you deal damage to a target, you reduce its damage by 4%. Maximum 20% damage reduction.
If a Destoyer GWF is getting more immunities and damage mitigation , then its time that Swordmaster GF does the equivalent DPS to a Destroyer! Its ridiculous a DPS class is given that many free tools whilst we GFs struggle to get any...
If DPS can Tank then Tank should be allowed to DPS!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
If balance is the goal, we are not there yet, not even close. The 'buff' to RA is questionable, and the other trees got nothing.
Feedback One reason there is not balance is that there is a huge disparity between unstoppable and shield. One part of disparity is that while a GWF is unstoppable, they generally do more damage, or are building stacks to do more damage. If it was hairy before they went unstoppable, they get a heal, temp hitpoints, and can even pop a potion if they really needed too. And, they have good damage, so they can lifesteal and regen up while they are portected. And unstoppable makes them immune to CC. The CC immune and the damage reduction is from ALL sides.
A GF can't do any of that. When our shield is up, we can't do encounters/dailies. We can't drink a pot. We used enforced threat before our shield went up, so we are getting hit from all sides. In pvp we can be CC'd from behind or from chill. All we can do is agg strike or get back some shield with our at-wills. This is why conq was so good comparitively, because we were trained not to use our shield. Shield up =damage and agro gone, and if your are conq, even more so.
If you are going for balance, pvp and/or pve, you haven't gotten there yet. Yes, you have buffed the GF and made him a bit better. Extra hp, arguably a better shield, arguably a buff to RA, better mark, better agro. But its nowhere near where you need to go for balance.
Don't nerf unstoppable more. I am against nerfs to balance. Bring us up to the same level, so both are fun, and both are viable/equal. That means Conq needs much more damage. That means tact/prot need love.
For tact/prot, i think one step would be to modify the capstones, to help the group. Tact/Prot's only purpose is to aid groups, so make it so? Make the Tact capstone add a small amount of AP to the whole party for getting hit, kind of like battle fury. Modify prot's capstone to reduce the mob's damage resistance for hitting the GF, not its damage output.
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elveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 336
edited July 2014
Here's an idea on how to equalize the shield with unstoppable - apply the old RA buff as a constant mechanic with the shield. The shield would be full much less than before and it will bring the DPS up with more than enough to compete with the GWF when it comes to damage.
I think the biggest thing from the new reckless isn't the damage bonus, that is pretty clearly going to outweight the old one. In PVE you are to generate WAY more threat than you used to. You are going to get hit a LOT more, and in higher end PVE if you aren't blocking you going to be low hp a LOT granted that gives you more AP if you spec'd it and more Regen if you have it.
But I think if you guys run some PVE in the new mod you'll notice how often EVERYTHING is on you, so being able to block is big.
The best part about the new capstone IMO
10% crit chance!!!!
This opens new avenues that we have never had. A lot of you who don't use vorpal, normal, greater or even perfect probably haven't seen what numbers we can hit when we do crit. 22-24% is about all we can get MAX as a GF. You can use timeless and some tenacity gear to make that go up especially your at wills, they hit freaking hard with crits, but the idea of GF's being based around crit has never really worked that well and now it can.
For instance in PVE, your frontlines, or your Villains will crit a LOT of monsters hard. Enforced Threat can now hit 20 targets. so in a big boss fight, you are getting over 30% chance to crit on 20 different targets! I think this is going to add a LOT more damage than people realize.
I know new rogues are not running the shocking path so the 5% crit chance isn't as often
But - lets say you are a big time PVE'r and you do have a rogue with you granted the speed runs don't usually bring one anymore. We are now talking mid to upper 30's % chance to crit, that is freaking unreal as a GF. Knight's Challenge is SICK on boss fights, so is Anvil as well. Imagine Knight's + Anvile with a mid to upper 30's chance to crit? I mean seriously?!
Again - lets see what Crush is doing as he has been really quiet lately.
Comments
Currently on the test server with my new spec I am doing a lot more damage with the current changes to mark and having the increase to crit strike is a plus pve and pvp wise. I am not going to try and fight what is being done at this point because with the initial change to block I was apprehensive but now with the increased duration I am very happy with the change(even with the current dr bug). Even with the change to RA I can see the positive points I have said what will worry me already but since there is no real reason to go back to the old RA since block will decrease without being hit its better that this change is done at the same time.
Yes other paths need this attention as well with the change to block being a core part of our class the other paths need some more attention if they are to be just as attractive as conq in their respective ways. Protector could use some kind of stack mechanic where after so many hits you get a % heal. And for Tactician it will have to involve ap gain(maybe a higher gain from encounters) and a cc bonus of some kind.
If we can get past all the gloom and doom and start actually figuring out how to play with the new block we can probably get some new capstones for prot and tact which I am sure some gfs would very much enjoy.
Block
Block is capped at 80% DR. And since it is DR, things like thornward can reduce it zero, so I am holding my shield and taking full damage. So once that is fixed it will be a beast. I was able to keep near continuous block for 50 seconds of a minute, and that was max feated, max artifacts, max strength, max stamina gain via boons, so that could be good, but it should be increased because with that set up you aren't going to hurt anything. But like I said, currently it can be mitigated to nothing
Capstone
5% damage is rough testing right now, the crit is ok, but 20% damage increase will be a BIG noticeable difference.
Before anyone tests again
Lets let Crush fix the block, if it is meant to be mitigated, then I would then suggest a revert and leaving the capstone where it is. If our block can be mitigated, there are some classes that can reduce it zero, essentially making it useless.
Not sure if your Post is a Troll post of a Rage post but in most games where you are a Tank The Shield is the main defence however I agree to a certain extent that you can better in most cases with a GWF than GF due to Determination / Unstoppable Vrs Guard, However if Guard is fixed in Mod4 hopefully Itll change as it is now still Kinda Bugged
For reference Think of some of the Common MMOS going back that had Tanks
LOTRO - GF/Warden Block ussually the main defence and Parry for Warden OR block
Tera - Lancer - Stand Fast (Possibly the best Block Skill Ever) I Also loved Lancer
Wow - Warrior / Paladin Shield is the main Defence
Using dailies like crescendo causes immense lag
That big lag spike is because (well in my cases) - you/we are hitting shift to block before the daily is done. Since our block now interrupts all of our moves and lets us cancel things we don't want to use. It can do this with the daily, but it FREAKS out the game and makes us lag SUPER bad. I tested and got it to work 4/5 times just using the daily, and then blocking.
I AGREE WITH YOU.
*the new blocking with this duration time is good.*
MY SUGGESTIONS:
1- The most thing that GFs need is "CC IMMUNITY". add our passive skills, encounters or feats some cc immunity.
Killing a controlled tank doesnt cost more than 2 seconds.
2- Make the capstone buff more reachable. If you take 5 hit in pvp, you probably got controlled. Controlled tank means dead tank.
3- Just give us a "easy to apply" single target or an aoe skill like FLS that we could use instead of FLS. All of our encounters are easy to dodge. Even when the target only walks. (im not gonna use FLS in pvp. It hits like 7 year-old girl after the damage nerf and no prone
mfgamesys, that's been my point the whole time, the prot and tac trees are the ones that are broke, why mess with the conq tree it is the only one that "was" working.
I realy want to keep the Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server as well. What I was trying to say was that the shield and the Reckless Attacker feat are connected. You will have a higher chance to keep your current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, if you support the old shield mechanic! The rework of the Reckless Attacker feat was a direct consequence of the shield rework! (Proof follows further down in this post.)
Aside from supporting the current Reckless Attacker feat as it is at the live server, you brought up several other good points as well, and I hope the devs will listen. One of the most important for me is without question a need to increase our general damage output. I am for a percentage increase in weapon damage for all GF weapons. Gentlemancrush said about a percentage increase in weapon damage this (in this quote is also the connection between the stamina-guard and the proposed Reckless Attacker feat):
Gentlemancrush, please rethink this, a weapon damage increase affecting us across the board is exactly what we need.
(By the way, I dislike these effects that trigger if you gain 'stacks' or that 'have a chance' to trigger or/and have a hidden internal cooldown. I prefere simple, transparent, flat increases like '+3% crit'. Am I the only one who sees it that way?)
Ok i just went on the test server again and the gf is so much better. the shield lasts longer and with the increased dmg and crit from reckless attacker i could actually do decent dmg.
Reckless attacker is better now, it gains stacks fast so not sure why people are complaining there and now we finally get more crit.
Our shield is great and once the bug has been fixed it will be finally where we needed it.
I love the hp boost and move speed when blocking, really makes the gf have more options during fights.
Bugs:
Sometimes the shield goes red as if its broken when it isnt.
The bug many have already said, the shield is only defending 80% dmg max not taking other DR into account.
Again one thing i would like is the word "blocked" to appear over our shields again when we block an attack, a small change but i think its needed.
Thanks for listening crush and thanks for buffing the gf, cant wait for mod 4 now
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So after a decent amount of hours testing block movement speed (both PvE & PvP), I must say the new movement speed is essential, especially since we still take 20% damage through our shields of holes (which I STRONGLY recommend you remove).
Feedback: New Guard System
I still get hit for 5k+ during both PvP and PvE (it's much worse in PvE. Especially when blocking dragon breath attacks
Go test out the 20% damage for yourselves if you don't believe me. Not to mention the new Black Ice damage players have to deal with now.
Preview server: 1321 - 1571 (0 stacks of Reckless Attacker) and 1651 - 1964 (numbers mulitplied with 1.25 to simulate 5 stacks)
Live server: 1416 - 1684 (if the guard is at 0%) and 1697 - 2019 (if guard is at 100%)
My damage output at the live server is higher, but now comes the important part: This is a side issue. Improving Reckless Attacker at the preview server to provide 10% more damage per stack won't solve the problem. The problem is HOW Reckless Attacker works. Keep the current guard/block mechanism at the live server, perhaps buff it, and leave Reckless attacker as it is too, perhaps buff it.
I just posted this to shine some light on the myth that the new Reckless Attacker feat would provide more damage for everyone.
I see what you are saying now, YES I TOTALLY AGREE.
I am old school, hidden cool downs, vague supposedly bonus's do not thrill me, plain +x% damage increase does. Why nuke a class or build when minor to moderate tweeks are all that is needed.
Elve, the main difference I see right off the bat>>> my stats>>
Str= 24
Con= 18
Dex= 18
Power = 8.5k
A/p = 2.4k
Crit= 2.1k
Def= 4.1k
That's why the damages posted are low to me.
Elve, I guess my damage will increase a little bit when I get that **** weaponsmithing sword forged but not by a lot.
I hate to say it guy but I doubt it will, I have compared every GF weapon in-game and I still use the Mulhonand, it is basically the only Offensive weapon we have, every other weapon is defense stat'd.
I had thought about PF but instead went with terror, reason = the description states with your skills, I wanted a flat across the board increase that terror gave me, only wish I had higher at the moment only a lesser for now.
I also went a different armor enchant then most use= Negation and found it perks quite often, even at its lowest rank, lesser. A greater or perfect and from what I am seeing right now will be AWSOM. Talk about a def boost during those times you are really getting smacked around, man that enchant works.
Right now I cannot compare to your 17k GWF, but a 12k gwf with comparable power I can. If I had time to finish my GF and get him close to the 17k threshold "YES guy I truly believe, from what I am seeing currently that my GF will match him, or surpass him".
By removing the need for stacks you instantly take away this concern. Without a major PVE difference. I really do not see the reason for it. Removing it will not make the new capstone OP. Just give the conqueror 25% damage boost, plus 10% crit.
I want to set some matters straight, I do not PvP personnel choice (been there done that don't need it in my entertainment.)
IMHO the following are what is needed:
1. Increase the threat power of mark and threat, not a major overhaul needed.
2. Increase the DR of the shield when it is utilized (RAISED) many have stated the old timer was ok.
3. Do not change block to stamina, why re create the wheel when it has been working for over a year, also when only a few tweeks are needed.
4. Change two of the armor sets pref T2.5 to extreme offensive nature, currently only high general and grand regent are offensive nature but mild when compared to the GWF's sets.
5. Change two of the weapon sets pref T2.5 to offensive nature, currently every one is defensive nature esp the weapon/shield bonus.
6. Raise the damage value of the GF's weapons, as it has been stated why are our weapons stat'd damage wise like a DC's.
7. Leave the conq tree as it is, this tree works.
8. Buff up the protector tree for those GF's who desire to protect/guard the parties/control the mobs.
9. Buff up the tac tree (same as above)
10. Give #8 & 9 defense buffs and defensive debuffs so that they can defend the parties and keep control of the mobs.
These changes could be made without a major overhaul, they have been done is many (countless) other MMO's, but it depends on the coding you all used when developing the game. I feel these changes would not only help the Pve crowd but also help the PvP crowd making it a win-win situation.
I am not trying to tell you dev's how to do your job( you are smarter then I am , I 'm just an old worn out ex-Marine), all I am trying to do is give you the opinion of a gamer with close to thirty years experience in gaming. Yes I started gaming on a souped up 286 with 512 megs of ram, hey at that time that was an insane gaming rig.
These changes will not favor either the PVP crowd nor the PvE crowd at the expense of the other. But it WILL enhance the entire class.
If it was just the damage bonus I can see that not being a problem, but you'd have even more Knight's Cheese GF's in pvp nuking pugs if it included crit as well. It would take a less skilled set up even less skill, so I think they were trying to encourage us having to take a little damage and fulfilling the role that they see for us. I agree 5 stacks takes less than a few seconds, if they have GPF, it takes literally less than a second to cap it out. But having it up all the time would encourage the class in a different direction than I think they are trying to go, not saying it is right, or wrong, but not what they see it being
Please keep it so that shield meter goes down and eventually breaks when the shield actually takes damage. Not by some kind of time meter or limit. It doesn't make sense and it's very unusefull in PvP. People will simply wait till the time is over and then attack the GF. Meaning the GF's shield is nothing more than a fancy piece of decoration within PvP.
Please... It should break because of actual damage. Like it is now. And not by a period of time. It's not only logical, it's also more realistic. Otherwise people with other classes have an advantage by just waiting till time is over. Meaning it's not balanced at all. And if you still choose to do a time limit than atleast make the time duration longer! It's too short now.
Many thanks for reading!! That's the only thing I really worry about... Thanks.
I agree with you. And the poster above you as well.
Fresh, why so negative guy. No I do not use KC to me it is a lousy skill, but to others it may be great. Isn't that what this game is about diversity, different races, different builds played by those that create the toon.
Come on guy, right now is when we as GF's have to pull together not against each other. Internal strife splits the class to us against them, then we meaning the entire GF class looses.
I agree if they revert us to the old(current) on live it may be putting us right back where we were, BUT if they then buffed the shield when used(raised) to raise the DR like it should have been that's a plus.
I agree the devs have been over loaded with trying to get all the mods out in a timely manner, that they sorta forgot about the GF class. If the buffs and adjustments had come in a timely manner, hey we wouldn't be here discussing it now.
It is a touchy thing trying to buff the class without favoring PvP over Pve or vice versa, my concern is for the entire class. That's why I posted my thoughts and humble opinions in my preceding post, to help the entire class not just one aspect of the class over the other.
Lets keep it this way guy, I enjoy chatting with you, and we both want what is best for the class as a whole. You have great ideas and are really trying to test the changes on the test server and report them here.
I agree with you, most parties are all about DPS, Cc comes in second when DPS can control the mob. I have said it before its a true statement for any MMO "he who does the most damage controls the mob".
Right now on live, threat and improved threat are destructive taunts, they deal damage, which is easily over ridden by the insane damages GWF's, Nukers and rangers can dish out. In other games the taunts were not damage based, meaning they did not damage the mobs, but had a higher pull then physical damage did, sounds confusing doesn't it. In those other games their taunt was like our tab>mark, it caused no damage but pulled the mob to you.
If the taunts or threats in this game were changed to utilize the tab>mark mechanics but stronger, so its power would be higher then the damages other classes can generate that would fix the problem, without over powering the GF.
I think this is what the devs/crush is trying to do, but no disrespect to the devs/crush your making it so complicated I cannot understand what your trying to do.
mfg, not quite sure I am understanding you, so correct me if I am wrong here guy. The number of mobs you can pull isn't the same as the amount of power you exert upon them to hold them on you. Its like currently on live and most every other game, you hit a target for 20k damage and someone hits it for 25k damage the mob is going to mitigate towards the higher damage. This is the problem every mmo has faced with Cc toons. The power to pull or hold the mob onto you has to be higher than the damages other players can generate, or else the mob moves. Well if you increase the damage based Cc against a mob you create an unfairly over powered toon. So the power to pull the mobs has to be non damaging to the mobs or else a DC with a high damaging Cc could out damage a DD toon. With me so far?
Currently our threats are damage based, meaning they exert xx# of points damage against a mob to pull it toward you, well a DD smacks the mob for twice the amount of damage your threat did, the mob goes to him.
Our threats need to be non damage based, and that value set to be first selected by the mob, instead of pure damage based Cc. A group of 4 archers because of their high burst damage can go into an epic and space themselves apart then time their ranged attacks correctly so that the boss is constantly pulled from one archer to the other, this allows the group to control the boss and allows none of the archers to sustain massive damage from the boss, since it is being pulled from one archer to the other then the other so forth and so forth, til the boss is dead (that's Old school before Cc was even installed into any games).
Unstoppable: Now grants 15~30% DR when activated (up from 10~20%).
Sprint: Stamina cost of Sprint reduced by roughly 40%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
see even in mod 4 no dd for us gwf senti again takes our place
This Feature remains extremely lacklustre andcould use a rework or increase in reflected damage, or be calculated based on pre-modified damage
A protector GF sacrifices all his damage to get high survivability and to protect his teammates. I think that the ideas behind the feats are good, the problem is that the feats are not strong enough and need to be buffed.
Suggestions:
Armor of bahamut: I really like the change to this feat, but I think it's too strong for a T1 feat and needs to be moved deeper in the protector tree.
Shield defense: Gain 2/4/6/8/10 to AC.
Shieldmaster: Guard now drains stamina 4/8/12/16/20% more slowly.
Brawling Warrior: Knight's valor increases you damage resistance by 2/4/6/8/10% and enforced threat deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% more damage and threat.
Balanced shield fighter: your shield slam and stab at wills deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage.
Overwhelming impact: supremacy of steel and terrifying impact now temporarily reduce damage resistance by 1/2/3/4/5% and damage dealt by 1/2/3/4/5% on affected targets.
Iron guard: Each time you deal damage to a target, you reduce its damage by 4%. Maximum 20% damage reduction.
If DPS can Tank then Tank should be allowed to DPS!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Feedback
One reason there is not balance is that there is a huge disparity between unstoppable and shield. One part of disparity is that while a GWF is unstoppable, they generally do more damage, or are building stacks to do more damage. If it was hairy before they went unstoppable, they get a heal, temp hitpoints, and can even pop a potion if they really needed too. And, they have good damage, so they can lifesteal and regen up while they are portected. And unstoppable makes them immune to CC. The CC immune and the damage reduction is from ALL sides.
A GF can't do any of that. When our shield is up, we can't do encounters/dailies. We can't drink a pot. We used enforced threat before our shield went up, so we are getting hit from all sides. In pvp we can be CC'd from behind or from chill. All we can do is agg strike or get back some shield with our at-wills. This is why conq was so good comparitively, because we were trained not to use our shield. Shield up =damage and agro gone, and if your are conq, even more so.
If you are going for balance, pvp and/or pve, you haven't gotten there yet. Yes, you have buffed the GF and made him a bit better. Extra hp, arguably a better shield, arguably a buff to RA, better mark, better agro. But its nowhere near where you need to go for balance.
Don't nerf unstoppable more. I am against nerfs to balance. Bring us up to the same level, so both are fun, and both are viable/equal. That means Conq needs much more damage. That means tact/prot need love.
For tact/prot, i think one step would be to modify the capstones, to help the group. Tact/Prot's only purpose is to aid groups, so make it so? Make the Tact capstone add a small amount of AP to the whole party for getting hit, kind of like battle fury. Modify prot's capstone to reduce the mob's damage resistance for hitting the GF, not its damage output.
But I think if you guys run some PVE in the new mod you'll notice how often EVERYTHING is on you, so being able to block is big.
The best part about the new capstone IMO
10% crit chance!!!!
This opens new avenues that we have never had. A lot of you who don't use vorpal, normal, greater or even perfect probably haven't seen what numbers we can hit when we do crit. 22-24% is about all we can get MAX as a GF. You can use timeless and some tenacity gear to make that go up especially your at wills, they hit freaking hard with crits, but the idea of GF's being based around crit has never really worked that well and now it can.
For instance in PVE, your frontlines, or your Villains will crit a LOT of monsters hard. Enforced Threat can now hit 20 targets. so in a big boss fight, you are getting over 30% chance to crit on 20 different targets! I think this is going to add a LOT more damage than people realize.
I know new rogues are not running the shocking path so the 5% crit chance isn't as often
But - lets say you are a big time PVE'r and you do have a rogue with you granted the speed runs don't usually bring one anymore. We are now talking mid to upper 30's % chance to crit, that is freaking unreal as a GF. Knight's Challenge is SICK on boss fights, so is Anvil as well. Imagine Knight's + Anvile with a mid to upper 30's chance to crit? I mean seriously?!
Again - lets see what Crush is doing as he has been really quiet lately.