4. But think about it. Why would they do this change? What possible purpose could it be other than forcing players to buy coal wards from the zen shop? And if that is their intent, then they will eventually plug the loophole of selling the finished enchant.
This is the thing I'm worried about , I really don't want to sound pessimistic but enchantments are all they have left to bind and at that point the game becomes the thing we cannot mention on the forum , no new players are going to stick around when they realize how time intensive or expensive in real money it now is to get to a level of competitiveness most MMO players want to be at in the games they play and without a constant influx of new players no MMO can hope to survive , this is a really ridiculous move on cryptics part .
It'll be interesting to see where this goes but if they don't back down or give us an alternative way to get coal wards I don't see this ending well long term.
1. Yes it did; the drop rate was reduced = less supply.
3. What else does the T bar merchant sell that's of value and not BoP?
4. I don't know what the purpose of the change is. Not going to speculate on that or assume nefarious intentions.
1. The drop rate was reduced to next to nothing. But the supply wasn't drastically reduced because the people buying lockboxes started selling more of them.
4. Please speculate, I'd love to hear another explanation for it. BTW I never said it was nefarious. The game NEEDS to make money. I just think it'd be better off if they went another direction to get it.
Why are people basing the math off of the auction house?
How about we base the math on buying the 1125zen for 10 keys bundle with the 15% off bonus sale?
And, there are still tens of thousands zen being sold, none of it is listed because people buy it up. I just bought 25000 zen yesterday. I had to wait 10 minutes, but I got it
All in know is I haven't seen this much caterwauling and carrying on since the power went out at the chucky cheese's
We can only speculate as to why and honestly only the dev's know why and they have far more information about what is really going on then we do so I'll just have to trust them that this change has some merit (despite not having a clue what it might be other then really slowing top tier down unless you spend real money or hoards of time). Who knows maybe they'll switch it back after a time or make other changes to find a happy medium. I've played a few MMO's over the years they have all had changes like this that have had the community in an uproar they still survived for many years (many are still going)
The reasonable price for coal wards, based on the number required per character, is 250 Zen. If PWE wants to funnel us into the limited sources of coal ward acquisition they need to make the price reasonable.
Again I agree. You can never make everyone happy. But I think they'd have a lot less opposition if 250 Zen was the regular price for coal wards.
Agreed. Sorry if I went off on the former a bit. The real issue is both of those changes combined. Though I fear what their next step might be.
Invocation needed to change. There were several players who had a big impact in abusing that system with hundreds of praybots. There was even a player who reached the max AD because of it.
I'll say that a better alternative is to have coal wards drop in future events or dungeons.
Who knows maybe they'll switch it back after a time or make other changes to find a happy medium.
You mean like when they tried to find another happy medium when addressing the enormous AD cost to upgrade your mount and companion ranking... but instead slapped us in the face with the abysmal low drop of companion upgrade tokens from lockboxes (and you needed 180 of those tokens to go from white to purple)? ....And ironically, that cost even more than the original AD upgrade option....
Ha ha ha. Be prepared to be insulted and disappointed when they give you that new alternative medium, if they ever do come up with one. These guys working at Cryptic really make me scratch my head.
but instead slapped us in the face with the abysmal low drop of companion upgrade tokens from lockboxes (and you needed 180 of those tokens to go from white to purple)? ....And ironically, that cost even more than the original AD upgrade option....
Well no. Nobody upgrades a white companion to purple when there are much much better blue and purple companions. That discredits any relevance of that math in itself.
Also, companion kits now drop 30 tokens instead of 1.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Well no. Nobody upgrades a white companion to purple when there are much much better blue and purple companions. That discredits any relevance of that math in itself.
Some people do, but as far as I know, only for purposes of stat stacking with active bonuses (Sellsword for power, for example) and anyone that does this is generally not hurting for being able to afford the AD cost in the first place.
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2014
There are a few people who will put money into the sinks but it really is a very small amount of the player base.
Sinks tend to be in small chunks for a reason and that's because in an MMO you have hundreds of thousands to millions of players. If every one of them spends a thousand AD a day in sinks you far exceed getting a handful of them spending tens of thousands.
I don't understand why the sinks in Neverwinter are priced to the point you need to spend several days playing and farming to get anything and even then are often outclassed by Zen Store items. Yeah Zen needs to be important but it can not be so much more important that AD only serves to acquire Zen.
I agree with the prices are too expensive, I'd definitely buy more stuff if it was cheaper, but considering how expensive it is, I just don't buy anything. (besides some respec tokens and extra char slots).
There's no way I'll buy a 35$ mount, I refer to wait and get my free one with the foundry achievements
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I agree with the prices are too expensive, I'd definitely buy more stuff if it was cheaper, but considering how expensive it is, I just don't buy anything. (besides some respec tokens and extra char slots).
There's no way I'll buy a 35$ mount, I refer to wait and get my free one with the foundry achievements
The purple mounts aren't a big deal. Only a one time purchase afterall.
I agree with the prices are too expensive, I'd definitely buy more stuff if it was cheaper, but considering how expensive it is, I just don't buy anything. (besides some respec tokens and extra char slots).
There's no way I'll buy a 35$ mount, I refer to wait and get my free one with the foundry achievements
$35 seems bad, but flip it around, 1.25mil (2500zen at 500ad/zen) for an account-wide mount seems worth it
I may be alone in this but I don't think that long term making Coalescent Wards from the Tarmalune bar merchant account bound will change much. In the short term it has. People are freaking out thinking that the supply is getting choked off so they're buying them all up and the price has skyrocketed. But I think it will stabilize long term and end up being no more expensive than it was a month ago.
Here's why:
Enchantments still won't be bound.
More details:
Right now, if you want a lesser vorpal enchantment what you do is get four shards, buy a Coalescent ward of the AH, then craft your own enchantment. Or you can just buy a lesser vorpal enchantment off the AH that someone else has already crafted for about the same total cost. What you saw a lot was people who opened a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-ton of lockbockes, traded in tarmalune bars for Coalescents, then sold those coalescents on the AH. That was the primary Coalescent ward supply to the market.
If those coalescents become bound what will happen is that people will still open a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-ton of lockboxes, trade in tarmalune bars for coalescents, craft an enchantment, then sell that on the AH. The total supply of enchantments won't change. You're just going to find that in the AH there's just going to be less coalescent wards and more things already crafted with coalescent wards. The prices should be comparable to what they were before because the total number of coalescent wards being acquired by the lockbox openers will be the same.
Think about it. They did this with Coalescents earned through invoking. It didn't make invoking to get a coalescent ward any more or less profitable when they became bound. It just meant that you had to craft an enchantment using the ward before you were able to sell it. But the profit was the same.
A week ago everybody would have said this about trade bar coal wards but now they are bound , they have bound them for a reason ,if players simply move on to trading lesser enchantments instead then it stands to reason they will bind them too otherwise it makes the entire exercise of binding coal wards pointless .
I'm curious on what they want to achieve though. I don't think people will buy more wards with Z, I know that I won't be buying any, no matter how hard it is to get them in game.
A week ago nobody would have ever thought that trade bar coal wards would ever be bound but now they are , they have bound them for a reason ,if players simply move on to trading lesser enchantments instead then it stands to reason they will bind them too otherwise it makes the entire exercise of binding coal wards pointless .
It'll be interesting to see what they do .
It will certainly be interesting. Making the wards bound may be an omen of things to come, but it also may not be. I'm not big into reading tea leaves. But just the same I'll save my freaking out for when they announce that enchantments will be bound. That would be the real kick in the groin to the game economy and to players trying to gear up their characters. This change is just a minor nuisance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited May 2014
It'll be a firestorm if they ever did become bound. Hard enough as it is to find 4 shards of the same type. Got enough RNG out of epic dungeons which are barely worth wasting your time on.
My guess the shards wouldn't become bound...but the actual enchantments made from the shards(that require the coal. ward) would be what is bound...so you can still get the shards but it won't do much good without a coal. ward
If the problem is the "new players" they will just add a promotion like: are you a new player and need some help to get your enchants? for $10 you will get a pack of 5 Cwards BoA/BoP! those new players that never had a chance to get a cheap cward in the ah (because they weren't in the game and/or doesn't know anything about it) will say: wow this is my opportunity! time to make a couple of enchants! either for sale or for himself/herself.
I rolled a new character!, the level 10 adventurer box contained a voucher for 20% off the Professions Pack, however the prize was: a master artificer - 11k and a green artificer - 2.5k. That's where the Zen Market zen went people! the comical section of the lower depths.
Don't hope, demand!
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited May 2014
Just because you got a coupon doesn't mean you were obligated to use it.
You have a free chance at coal wards every 7 straight days of play. You can save up AD to buy lockboxes, and use the bars in the boxes to buy more wards. Sell everything else from the box on the AH for almost enough for a second key. And completely free to play, you can have 2 characters, farming 25k AD a day, and every 7 days getting a chance at a ward. I think everyones overreacting on this one, and the mass influx of people buying coal wards out of fear is going to drive up the price, not the actual supply going down.
"Tarmalune Tradebar Merchant: Coalescent and Preservation wards sold by the Trade Bar merchant are now Bind on Account. This change is not retroactive. Existing wards will retain their current bind status."
WHY???
Why? Simple, each passing the chanters, buggers, exploiters, booters, catundary saviors (I know there are several out there ... one time or another is banned) and other aberrations of the MMORPG world (even those who think that day should not F2P absolutely nothing to those who make the game ---> F2P = free to play, to have access to the base game ---> free to practice and not exploit or take advantage of the market bechas to have more than 1,000,000,000 accounts with different emails to get rich) it will end, is ending! And what good are to be congratulated that Cryptic increasingly amaze you catch these types of players! Very happy :-) In fact the game is more difficult, is difficult to obtain resources and such, but it's better than seeing people benefiting without contributing NOTHING.
That's still half a whole game price. Is a single mount (even if account bound) worth half a full game? definitely not for me.
1.25mil is not half a game's price.
I could easily make that diamond in a week without using my capital as an advantage to buy/sell ah stuff.
Also, neverwinter probably gave me and I'm assuming you more playtime than 70% (conservative estimate) of the other games out there. For the price of half a game, I'd say that is worth it.
In fact the game is more difficult, is difficult to obtain resources and such, but it's better than seeing people benefiting without contributing NOTHING.
Wait , who is benefiting without contributing nothing? you do know where trade bars come from right?
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I may be alone in this but I don't think that long term making Coalescent Wards from the Tarmalune bar merchant account bound will change much. In the short term it has. People are freaking out thinking that the supply is getting choked off so they're buying them all up and the price has skyrocketed. But I think it will stabilize long term and end up being no more expensive than it was a month ago.
Here's why:
Enchantments still won't be bound.
More details:
Right now, if you want a lesser vorpal enchantment what you do is get four shards, buy a Coalescent ward of the AH, then craft your own enchantment. Or you can just buy a lesser vorpal enchantment off the AH that someone else has already crafted for about the same total cost. What you saw a lot was people who opened a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-ton of lockbockes, traded in tarmalune bars for Coalescents, then sold those coalescents on the AH. That was the primary Coalescent ward supply to the market.
If those coalescents become bound what will happen is that people will still open a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-ton of lockboxes, trade in tarmalune bars for coalescents, craft an enchantment, then sell that on the AH. The total supply of enchantments won't change. You're just going to find that in the AH there's just going to be less coalescent wards and more things already crafted with coalescent wards. The prices should be comparable to what they were before because the total number of coalescent wards being acquired by the lockbox openers will be the same.
Think about it. They did this with Coalescents earned through invoking. It didn't make invoking to get a coalescent ward any more or less profitable when they became bound. It just meant that you had to craft an enchantment using the ward before you were able to sell it. But the profit was the same.
This guy gets it. All that will happen is that C. Wards will be funneled directly into Lessers. Smart people will do the math and figure out it's cheaper to buy the Lesser than spend 1000 Zen on a C. Ward.
Comments
This is the thing I'm worried about , I really don't want to sound pessimistic but enchantments are all they have left to bind and at that point the game becomes the thing we cannot mention on the forum , no new players are going to stick around when they realize how time intensive or expensive in real money it now is to get to a level of competitiveness most MMO players want to be at in the games they play and without a constant influx of new players no MMO can hope to survive , this is a really ridiculous move on cryptics part .
It'll be interesting to see where this goes but if they don't back down or give us an alternative way to get coal wards I don't see this ending well long term.
1. The drop rate was reduced to next to nothing. But the supply wasn't drastically reduced because the people buying lockboxes started selling more of them.
4. Please speculate, I'd love to hear another explanation for it. BTW I never said it was nefarious. The game NEEDS to make money. I just think it'd be better off if they went another direction to get it.
How about we base the math on buying the 1125zen for 10 keys bundle with the 15% off bonus sale?
And, there are still tens of thousands zen being sold, none of it is listed because people buy it up. I just bought 25000 zen yesterday. I had to wait 10 minutes, but I got it
We can only speculate as to why and honestly only the dev's know why and they have far more information about what is really going on then we do so I'll just have to trust them that this change has some merit (despite not having a clue what it might be other then really slowing top tier down unless you spend real money or hoards of time). Who knows maybe they'll switch it back after a time or make other changes to find a happy medium. I've played a few MMO's over the years they have all had changes like this that have had the community in an uproar they still survived for many years (many are still going)
Agreed. Sorry if I went off on the former a bit. The real issue is both of those changes combined. Though I fear what their next step might be.
Again I agree. You can never make everyone happy. But I think they'd have a lot less opposition if 250 Zen was the regular price for coal wards.
Invocation needed to change. There were several players who had a big impact in abusing that system with hundreds of praybots. There was even a player who reached the max AD because of it.
I'll say that a better alternative is to have coal wards drop in future events or dungeons.
You mean like when they tried to find another happy medium when addressing the enormous AD cost to upgrade your mount and companion ranking... but instead slapped us in the face with the abysmal low drop of companion upgrade tokens from lockboxes (and you needed 180 of those tokens to go from white to purple)? ....And ironically, that cost even more than the original AD upgrade option....
Ha ha ha. Be prepared to be insulted and disappointed when they give you that new alternative medium, if they ever do come up with one. These guys working at Cryptic really make me scratch my head.
Well no. Nobody upgrades a white companion to purple when there are much much better blue and purple companions. That discredits any relevance of that math in itself.
Also, companion kits now drop 30 tokens instead of 1.
Some people do, but as far as I know, only for purposes of stat stacking with active bonuses (Sellsword for power, for example) and anyone that does this is generally not hurting for being able to afford the AD cost in the first place.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Sinks tend to be in small chunks for a reason and that's because in an MMO you have hundreds of thousands to millions of players. If every one of them spends a thousand AD a day in sinks you far exceed getting a handful of them spending tens of thousands.
I don't understand why the sinks in Neverwinter are priced to the point you need to spend several days playing and farming to get anything and even then are often outclassed by Zen Store items. Yeah Zen needs to be important but it can not be so much more important that AD only serves to acquire Zen.
There's no way I'll buy a 35$ mount, I refer to wait and get my free one with the foundry achievements
The purple mounts aren't a big deal. Only a one time purchase afterall.
$35 seems bad, but flip it around, 1.25mil (2500zen at 500ad/zen) for an account-wide mount seems worth it
FYI: Account-WIDE, not Account-bound. Ie: 1 for every character on the account.
Here's why:
Enchantments still won't be bound.
More details:
Right now, if you want a lesser vorpal enchantment what you do is get four shards, buy a Coalescent ward of the AH, then craft your own enchantment. Or you can just buy a lesser vorpal enchantment off the AH that someone else has already crafted for about the same total cost. What you saw a lot was people who opened a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-ton of lockbockes, traded in tarmalune bars for Coalescents, then sold those coalescents on the AH. That was the primary Coalescent ward supply to the market.
If those coalescents become bound what will happen is that people will still open a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-ton of lockboxes, trade in tarmalune bars for coalescents, craft an enchantment, then sell that on the AH. The total supply of enchantments won't change. You're just going to find that in the AH there's just going to be less coalescent wards and more things already crafted with coalescent wards. The prices should be comparable to what they were before because the total number of coalescent wards being acquired by the lockbox openers will be the same.
Think about it. They did this with Coalescents earned through invoking. It didn't make invoking to get a coalescent ward any more or less profitable when they became bound. It just meant that you had to craft an enchantment using the ward before you were able to sell it. But the profit was the same.
A week ago everybody would have said this about trade bar coal wards but now they are bound , they have bound them for a reason ,if players simply move on to trading lesser enchantments instead then it stands to reason they will bind them too otherwise it makes the entire exercise of binding coal wards pointless .
It'll be interesting to see what they do .
It will certainly be interesting. Making the wards bound may be an omen of things to come, but it also may not be. I'm not big into reading tea leaves. But just the same I'll save my freaking out for when they announce that enchantments will be bound. That would be the real kick in the groin to the game economy and to players trying to gear up their characters. This change is just a minor nuisance.
I rolled a new character!, the level 10 adventurer box contained a voucher for 20% off the Professions Pack, however the prize was: a master artificer - 11k and a green artificer - 2.5k. That's where the Zen Market zen went people! the comical section of the lower depths.
Don't hope, demand!
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Why? Simple, each passing the chanters, buggers, exploiters, booters, catundary saviors (I know there are several out there ... one time or another is banned) and other aberrations of the MMORPG world (even those who think that day should not F2P absolutely nothing to those who make the game ---> F2P = free to play, to have access to the base game ---> free to practice and not exploit or take advantage of the market bechas to have more than 1,000,000,000 accounts with different emails to get rich) it will end, is ending! And what good are to be congratulated that Cryptic increasingly amaze you catch these types of players! Very happy :-) In fact the game is more difficult, is difficult to obtain resources and such, but it's better than seeing people benefiting without contributing NOTHING.
1.25mil is not half a game's price.
I could easily make that diamond in a week without using my capital as an advantage to buy/sell ah stuff.
Also, neverwinter probably gave me and I'm assuming you more playtime than 70% (conservative estimate) of the other games out there. For the price of half a game, I'd say that is worth it.
Wait , who is benefiting without contributing nothing? you do know where trade bars come from right?
This guy gets it. All that will happen is that C. Wards will be funneled directly into Lessers. Smart people will do the math and figure out it's cheaper to buy the Lesser than spend 1000 Zen on a C. Ward.
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