What is really the difference between 2.5% and 3.2%? To me it's none. I haven't got a Coalescent Ward since they dropped the rate with M2. It might as well be a 0% chance.
It seems PW has one way and one way only to do business. I've seen the same thing happen to Jade Dynasty, another one of PW's games - same high prices, same impossible RNG lottery <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and blatant pay to win cash-shop. I gave up on that game a long time ago. By the looks of it PW is dragging Neverwinter down the same path. I love Neverwinter, but I will give up on it without giving it a second. This is not a threat, it's just how I feel about what is going on in Neverwinter right now.
28% difference . Of course the test shows only an estimate and either way you'd be lucky to get 2 a year per toon. Well I'm going to make note and avoid this studio in future anyway. There were some good aspects to this game like the combat but I'd rather play/pay for something where I feel somewhat valued. Even if they reverse the decision it doesn't change everything else they've done.
What is really the difference between 2.5% and 3.2%? To me it's none. I haven't got a Coalescent Ward since they dropped the rate with M2. It might as well be a 0% chance.
Nobody said there is much of a difference , both are lame drop rates , all I said is that the wiki needs updating .
Of course the test shows only an estimate and either way you'd be lucky to get 2 a year per toon. Well I'm going to make note and avoid this studio in future anyway. There were some good aspects to this game like the combat but I'd rather play/pay for something where I feel somewhat valued. Even if they reverse the decision it doesn't change everything else they've done.
Pretty much this , these latest changes are a step too far for me , the guys at cryptic are getting far too greedy and this is a ongoing trend which doesn't seem to be getting any better , I'll stick around but until their business practices change I will not be spending any more cash , if I had to guess I'd say they are grabbing for money due to module 4 being hoisted on them at such short notice but taking it out on their long term players and customers is probably not the wisest of choices , anyways whatever lol.
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naveed24Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2014
I can see the 500 AD per Zen cap being raised in the near future, this will make the 1000 zen coal ward from the market a better option. Cryptic for teh win.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited May 2014
I do not believe enough can be said on this subject.
You want us to buy the cwards? Make them a reasonable price point, this isnt. I am willing to spend some money on this game, Im not going to spend what your demanding for the entertainment value in return, Ive played much more polished MMOs at lesser price points.
I go back to it over and over 2.50 or so is a working # that does reflect at least the value of the ward to the playerbase here. You lower it to that and you will see a mass uptick of sales on your site.
Sadly, I dont see that happening.
I got on guild chat this morning and most people realize what this means to the game, nothing good. 5/29/14 is marked as the end of the game.
Its rare you can point to one event, so in itself, its kind of a historic day for a MMO. Like Shakespeare's version of Henry V, you can proudly say you were there on St Coal Wards day. For future mmo generations companies, I hope they can see this and learn from it. Hopefully, other games will take note of this historic mistake and model themselves a bit differently and learn from this. Doubtful, but hey, you can always hope.
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
At least 500k zen is being sold every day. And that's a very conservative estimate. It's probably closer to 1mill.
Also many people don't sell Zen after buying it for $ but rather use it on keys and etc.
So... Cryptic makes 10-20 k $ a day, and likely more.
They are still not happy.
10-20k a day is nothing for a games like this. If you estimate is real they will close soon. Or try to increase their income
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I do not believe enough can be said on this subject.
You want us to buy the cwards? Make them a reasonable price point, this isnt. I am willing to spend some money on this game, Im not going to spend what your demanding for the entertainment value in return, Ive played much more polished MMOs at lesser price points.
I go back to it over and over 2.50 or so is a working # that does reflect at least the value of the ward to the playerbase here. You lower it to that and you will see a mass uptick of sales on your site.
Sadly, I dont see that happening.
I got on guild chat this morning and most people realize what this means to the game, nothing good. 5/29/14 is marked as the end of the game.
Its rare you can point to one event, so in itself, its kind of a historic day for a MMO. Like Shakespeare's version of Henry V, you can proudly say you were there on St Coal Wards day. For future mmo generations companies, I hope they can see this and learn from it. Hopefully, other games will take note of this historic mistake and model themselves a bit differently and learn from this. Doubtful, but hey, you can always hope.
Wow, pessimistic much. I belive in the long run nothing will change. Just free players who think they should have everything in the same time frame as a paying customer, will leave. But new free players will join.
That said, and as a paid customer, I have to say price in the zen store are a bit too high.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Wow, pessimistic much. I belive in the long run nothing will change. Just free players who think they should have everything in the same time frame as a paying customer, will leave. But new free players will join.
That said, and as a paid customer, I have to say price in the zen store are a bit too high.
you want it both ways.. I AGREE with you 100% the pricing is too high, this is what its all about, I have no qualms throwing down money and on average have paid between 150-200 a year on mmos Ive played, up to maybe 300 if multiple items came out that was worth the investment, I AM not going to spend thousands of dollars on any mmo in just one year!. No way.
I am not wanting to play for free, I put a entertainment value on a game, this pricing structure they are laying out to us is way to high for regular consumers to enjoy.
There's a bit too much 'the sky is falling' in this thread.
I think you're all looking at this slightly incorrectly; you're assuming that you're going to keep buying Cwards and making your own enchants.
Try looking at it this way instead: instead of buying the wards and making things yourself, buy the finished product instead.
People farming lockboxes are still going to have the same amount of Cwards and will still want/need to flip them for some return on their investment. As was stated earlier, they won't be able to directly flip them now. So, the next option for them is to flip them indirectly. In other words, they'll start using their 'free' Cwards to make things that are unbound that people will want to buy; this should create a little more competition in the enchantment selling arena and drive prices down (obviously someone in this position will want to under-sell what the straight-up cost would be). I suspect that the prices of Lesser Enchants will take a bit of a dive after this change.
That being said, I do agree that the zen price of Cwards is too high and their availability via grind is too low. For example: I've gotten a grand total of 4 CWards from the CoWA box in the last 6 months over 5 characters. That's only enough for 4 Lessers or 1 Normal Enchant (out of the 10 enchantments I would want to gear all 5 characters).
Try looking at it this way instead: instead of buying the wards and making things yourself, buy the finished product instead.
People said the same kind of stuff when they nerfed Coal Wards from invoking. People also said: "You'll just buy the wards from players opening lockboxes. instead." Now they are taking that away. In my opinion they obviously WANT us to pay $10 per ward. Anything we come up with to avoid doing that will be changed.
I recently took a break from Neverwinter for a month or so. I came back to check out module 3. Now this? I love this game. The combat mechanics. The lore. Heck I even love the ability to buy cool mounts and pets in the shop. I wish there was more aesthetic stuff I actually wanted in the shop. But this... this is just wrong.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
With 24k AD a day, given an AD/Zen of 400, you'll need 16 days for a ward. I don't think it's too much time. And that without any other income than RAD refinement.
I have played with plenty of free players with perfects and r9/10. This game is still free, in that you can obtain everything in a timely manner just playing very much. And I think it's right that people who plays few hours a week and don't want to spend money on it, don't progress.
With 24k AD a day, given an AD/Zen of 400, you'll need 16 days for a ward. I don't think it's too much time. And that without any other income than RAD refinement.
16 days for 1 ward. Is a single ward enough? How many do you think players actually need? That's also assuming you don't have anything else to spend your AD on. Now consider how long it will take players that don't hit the AD cap every day.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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elthiruilMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
Just glancing over the Auction now and we see the ripple effect, price of many things has gone up by a factor of 2, this spells doom, out of reach for many players when they realize the true cost of things. So we see the death of many things AH oriented therefore leaving very few options for enhancing your characters.
The reality of 'random' drop in this game is not good requiring lots of grinding, the reality of getting rank 10 gear just slipped away for the majority of people, and what this means is people will never feel like they are getting anywhere, no progression=dissatisfaction, and when you have that in a player-base you should as a developer question why. I was there for Diablo 3, this is exactly what happened with the AH there, granted that game was lacking in so many ways and was not what the customer base envisioned it would be, this game however could be good, but this Coalescent ward change has the potential too destroy it.
So I guess that leaves those in charge with a decision really, accept that those 'Gold sellers' & or mass lockbox openers actually were enabling players with an option for progression - was that so bad really? (don't get me wrong I hate the spam as much as anyone), but hey they made an expensive thing within reach for many and enabled people to feel like they were getting somewhere, without that you have an undesirable situation.
With 24k AD a day, given an AD/Zen of 400, you'll need 16 days for a ward. I don't think it's too much time. And that without any other income than RAD refinement.
and 500 days for a perfect armour and weapon enchant, of course those aren't the only things you'll want to buy with AD. The $10 cost is equally bad. It baffles me how people can justify the decision unless they already have perfects and want the advantage over others. Obviously it takes longer with a higher zen exchange rate too.
People said the same kind of stuff when they nerfed Coal Wards from invoking. People also said: "You'll just buy the wards from players opening lockboxes. instead." Now they are taking that away. In my opinion they obviously WANT us to pay $10 per ward. Anything we come up with to avoid doing that will be changed.
Apples v Oranges. When Mod1 came and the CoWA rate changed, they also dramatically changed the number of wards needed. Less supply and less need for wards. That's probably why the price didn't shoot right up to the exchange rate at the time,despite dire predictions of 400k+ at the time.
And you've missed my suggested viewpoint: don't aim to buy the wards, aim to buy what you were going to make with them instead.
You could see it in action all the time since then; lots of Lesser Enchants for sale at prices noticeably lower than the CW prices at the time. The only way someone would list something so cheap is if their overhead cost was super low (ie: an invoc farmed ward).
I do (and think everyone would agree) think that the CW prices are a tad too high though. $5-6 would be a better price point for me; I might actually consider buying one then (I will never spend $10 on one ward).
I think that the problem (for me at least) is that now all weapon and armor enchants (not the regular enchants) and basically just for people who either buy Zen, or people who have lots and lots of AD.
I agree that a perfect enchantment should be just for people who do that, but I think a lesser or a normal enchant should be this expensive, and with the price of the wards going up I think the overall price of all those enchants will rise up to the sky too.
I think a good solution would be to not require a coal ward to make a lesser enchant (like making it a 25-50% chance instead of 1% and the the same for normal ones (maybe 10%? chance)
That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. I have no problem dropping money on Neverwinter, that would be equal to what I would pay for a subscription game. In my mind spending money on Neverwinter is preferable, as I will be able to get what I want.
I've 4 60th level characters, all with a GS between 12 and high 13K. The only thing for me to do at this point, which is something I was looking forward to, is to improve my gear. Now that option, I personally feel, is out of reach. With the fact that most people require you to have a 14k+ GS for the top dungeon runs, and now little possibility I will be able to attain that in the future, why even bother?
Are you sure its 5% once per week? I've received a grand total of 1 coal ward from the coffer.
With the fact that most people require you to have a 14k+ GS for the top dungeon runs, and now little possibility I will be able to attain that in the future, why even bother?
I would recommend finding some good people to run with. A decent guild will not judge you on your GS like that and will help you run to pickup gear. And you can also find random people who are happy to run with a good player; I recently grouped and friended a guy who likes to farm dungeons and doesn't really care what my GS is. Not an easy find, but people like that do exist out there.
Apples v Oranges. When Mod1 came and the CoWA rate changed, they also dramatically changed the number of wards needed. Less supply and less need for wards. That's probably why the price didn't shoot right up to the exchange rate at the time,despite dire predictions of 400k+ at the time.
And you've missed my suggested viewpoint: don't aim to buy the wards, aim to buy what you were going to make with them instead.
You could see it in action all the time since then; lots of Lesser Enchants for sale at prices noticeably lower than the CW prices at the time. The only way someone would list something so cheap is if their overhead cost was super low (ie: an invoc farmed ward).
I do (and think everyone would agree) think that the CW prices are a tad too high though. $5-6 would be a better price point for me; I might actually consider buying one then (I will never spend $10 on one ward).
And you've missed my suggested viewpoint: don't aim to buy the wards, aim to buy what you were going to make with them instead.
Sorry, but you missed my point. They are eliminating the options. One at a time. If everyone starts buying the enchants instead of wards, they'll just make the enchants account bound. Probably next module.
Their goal is to make money. I don't begrudge them this. Every game needs money to survive. But I strongly disagree with how they've chosen to do it. Forcing us to pay Zen for coal wards isn't the right path. (In my opinion of course.)
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
With the fact that most people require you to have a 14k+ GS for the top dungeon runs, and now little possibility I will be able to attain that in the future, why even bother?
Silver lining... NW_Legit_Community does not require any particular gear score to join runs (and we discourage advertising what your GS is). We're a custom chat channel that connects friendly players that elect not to use cheats/exploits.
You can join by typing the following into the game chat:
The problem is simple; how some folks in the game's existing player base perceive this decision. It seems that most of us see this as the company's way of increasing demand in the Zen market, and disagree with this practice. I'm not so sure this was the company's intent, seeing that it is a counter-productive way of increasing demand in the Zen market. After all, I'm sure that the company realizes that as the price of coal wards goes up in the in-game auction house, demand for coal wards in-game will decrease, and demand for coal wards in the Zen market will ultimately decrease as players find reasonable alternatives. Also, since the coal wards can be bought using trade bars that are received from opening lockboxes, in-game and Zen market demand for the keys could also decrease as a result.
I'm sure that the company has already run statistical analyses that indicate that this one decision will not have an adverse impact on the amount of Zen being bought; however, I ask that the company consider the long-term impact of continuing to impose these kinds of restrictions. It really doesn't matter what the company's true intent is; what matters is how players perceive the decision. If the decision drives up the in-game pricing of an item, players are going to question the f2p aspect of the game. If players who are attracted to f2p aspect of the game begin to question this, then they will look for other games to play; meaning that if they do have money to spend, they will spend it to support another company's f2p model that they believe in.
Given that both cash and non-cash players equally support the game because cash players buy items from the Zen market, and then sell to non-cash players on the AH; I doubt it's really a wise move on the company's part to further restrict items from being sold on the AH. It will not only cause prices of these items to increase, and eventually tank in-game and Zen market demand, but it could eventually disillusion enough players to look for entertainment elsewhere.
If everyone starts buying the enchants instead of wards, they'll just make the enchants account bound. Probably next module.
This is pretty much what I'm predicting at this point , after what has started happening recently this wouldn't surprise me one bit , such a shame too considering the potential this game had.
This is pretty much what I'm predicting at this point , after what has started happening recently this wouldn't surprise me one bit , such a shame too considering the potential this game had.
Wow, that's a little too pessimistic for me, guys. Can't follow you down that 'sky is falling' road.
Sorry, but you missed my point. They are eliminating the options. One at a time. If everyone starts buying the enchants instead of wards, they'll just make the enchants account bound. Probably next module.
Their goal is to make money. I don't begrudge them this. Every game needs money to survive. But I strongly disagree with how they've chosen to do it. Forcing us to pay Zen for coal wards isn't the right path. (In my opinion of course.)
I'm not sure what their goal is. It can't be to make more money because it's one thing to increase costs by say 5-10%, it's another to increase costs by 100%. People are just not going to buy this stuff. It's not like instead of buying 2 they will buy 1, they are going to throw in the towel and not buy anything.
Think about how many people this will drive away and who will take 1 look and leave?
Think of the housing market. If you have a budget to look for say a 250K house, you *might* look at a 300k house or even a 350k but you won't even bother looking at a 1M house, it's just a waste of time.
Wow, that's a little too pessimistic for me, guys. Can't follow you down that 'sky is falling' road.
Didn't mean to be pessimistic and having reread my post I don't see the bit that says the sky is falling , I'm not giving up in any case but they don't really have very much more of value they can bind at this point , lesser enchants will just take over from coal wards when the market settles down and may end up a reasonable price which isn't really a concern to myself but new players just starting are in for a expensive time.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Wow, that's a little too pessimistic for me, guys. Can't follow you down that 'sky is falling' road.
Check out the math on Page 8 of this post (Post & Follow-Up Post). One of the Community Moderators pointed out that it will cost $300 for a new player to get perfect weapon and armor enchants. The vast majority of players will never be competitive with older players that achieved greater/perfect enchants at a far lower price. While that will not cause the game to fall apart, it will have a fairly substantial negative impact over the mid/long term.
Didn't mean to be pessimistic and having reread my post I don't see the bit that says the sky is falling , I'm not giving up in any case but they don't really have very much more of value they can bind at this point , lesser enchants will just take over from coal wards when the market settles down and may end up a reasonable price which isn't really a concern to myself but new players just starting are in for a expensive time.
The market settling down, I think, will be a big factor here. It's very stressed right now and things look entirely outrageous. But this is also the worst possible scenario and there is only room for things to get 'better'.
Check out the math on Page 8 of this post. One of the Community Moderators pointed out that it will cost $300 for a new player to get perfect weapon and armor enchants. The vast majority of players will never be competitive with older players that achieved greater/perfect enchants at a far lower price. While that will not cause the game to fall apart, it will have a fairly substantial negative impact over the mid/long term.
Yes, I saw that. This is also the absolute worst the math/cost for a perfect can get; it can only get cheaper from here. The market needs time to settle down again and the prices will drop.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2014
I didn't do math based on the AH.
I did math based on the Zen Store Price. It won't get much better than that and certainly not to what is a reasonable cost. Players shouldn't be funneled into investing hundreds of dollars in time or real value into just a two items for each character and as long as PWE is trying to get a $10 price tag they will be.
Wow, that's a little too pessimistic for me, guys. Can't follow you down that 'sky is falling' road.
We've been on that road since the invoking nerf. Some people refuse to look up and see it. 4 points...
1. The invoking nerf didn't reduce the amount of coal wards. It just shifted their source from players with tons of characters (like me) to players who play the lockbox lottery. BTW that is why the price didn't change drastically then.
2. Ever since that nerf and the enchanting system update they've run multiple promotions trying to get people to buy enchanting stuff from the zen shop. Despite everyone telling them how worthless the stuff is, they are pushing this junk hard.
3. This change truly reduces the amount of coal wards. The lockbox addicts may very well start trying to sell enchants instead. Though they could just use the bars for something else.
4. But think about it. Why would they do this change? What possible purpose could it be other than forcing players to buy coal wards from the zen shop? And if that is their intent, then they will eventually plug the loophole of selling the finished enchant.
I can't help but feel this is the wrong direction. They could put things int he shop people want to buy. Rather than forcing us to buy things we don't.
We've been on that road since the invoking nerf. Some people refuse to look up and see it. 4 points...
1. The invoking nerf didn't reduce the amount of coal wards. It just shifted their source from players with tons of characters (like me) to players who play the lockbox lottery. BTW that is why the price didn't change drastically then.
3. This change truly reduces the amount of coal wards. The lockbox addicts may very well start trying to sell enchants instead. Though they could just use the bars for something else.
4. But think about it. Why would they do this change? What possible purpose could it be other than forcing players to buy coal wards from the zen shop? And if that is their intent, then they will eventually plug the loophole of selling the finished enchant.
I can't help but feel this is the wrong direction. They could put things int he shop people want to buy. Rather than forcing us to buy things we don't.
1. Yes it did; the drop rate was reduced = less supply.
3. What else does the T bar merchant sell that's of value and not BoP?
4. I don't know what the purpose of the change is. Not going to speculate on that or assume nefarious intentions.
I.M.O., new players will decide being competitive is out of reach and move on. Not just because of this alone. The price of goods in general have risen dramatically. If I started playing today, I probably would move on after about a week.
This, I expect the community population to fall off sharply after people start to feel the repercussions.....
Comments
28% difference
Nobody said there is much of a difference , both are lame drop rates , all I said is that the wiki needs updating .
Pretty much this , these latest changes are a step too far for me , the guys at cryptic are getting far too greedy and this is a ongoing trend which doesn't seem to be getting any better , I'll stick around but until their business practices change I will not be spending any more cash , if I had to guess I'd say they are grabbing for money due to module 4 being hoisted on them at such short notice but taking it out on their long term players and customers is probably not the wisest of choices , anyways whatever lol.
You want us to buy the cwards? Make them a reasonable price point, this isnt. I am willing to spend some money on this game, Im not going to spend what your demanding for the entertainment value in return, Ive played much more polished MMOs at lesser price points.
I go back to it over and over 2.50 or so is a working # that does reflect at least the value of the ward to the playerbase here. You lower it to that and you will see a mass uptick of sales on your site.
Sadly, I dont see that happening.
I got on guild chat this morning and most people realize what this means to the game, nothing good. 5/29/14 is marked as the end of the game.
Its rare you can point to one event, so in itself, its kind of a historic day for a MMO. Like Shakespeare's version of Henry V, you can proudly say you were there on St Coal Wards day. For future mmo generations companies, I hope they can see this and learn from it. Hopefully, other games will take note of this historic mistake and model themselves a bit differently and learn from this. Doubtful, but hey, you can always hope.
10-20k a day is nothing for a games like this. If you estimate is real they will close soon. Or try to increase their income
Wow, pessimistic much. I belive in the long run nothing will change. Just free players who think they should have everything in the same time frame as a paying customer, will leave. But new free players will join.
That said, and as a paid customer, I have to say price in the zen store are a bit too high.
you want it both ways.. I AGREE with you 100% the pricing is too high, this is what its all about, I have no qualms throwing down money and on average have paid between 150-200 a year on mmos Ive played, up to maybe 300 if multiple items came out that was worth the investment, I AM not going to spend thousands of dollars on any mmo in just one year!. No way.
I am not wanting to play for free, I put a entertainment value on a game, this pricing structure they are laying out to us is way to high for regular consumers to enjoy.
People said the same kind of stuff when they nerfed Coal Wards from invoking. People also said: "You'll just buy the wards from players opening lockboxes. instead." Now they are taking that away. In my opinion they obviously WANT us to pay $10 per ward. Anything we come up with to avoid doing that will be changed.
I recently took a break from Neverwinter for a month or so. I came back to check out module 3. Now this? I love this game. The combat mechanics. The lore. Heck I even love the ability to buy cool mounts and pets in the shop. I wish there was more aesthetic stuff I actually wanted in the shop. But this... this is just wrong.
I have played with plenty of free players with perfects and r9/10. This game is still free, in that you can obtain everything in a timely manner just playing very much. And I think it's right that people who plays few hours a week and don't want to spend money on it, don't progress.
16 days for 1 ward. Is a single ward enough? How many do you think players actually need? That's also assuming you don't have anything else to spend your AD on. Now consider how long it will take players that don't hit the AD cap every day.
The reality of 'random' drop in this game is not good requiring lots of grinding, the reality of getting rank 10 gear just slipped away for the majority of people, and what this means is people will never feel like they are getting anywhere, no progression=dissatisfaction, and when you have that in a player-base you should as a developer question why. I was there for Diablo 3, this is exactly what happened with the AH there, granted that game was lacking in so many ways and was not what the customer base envisioned it would be, this game however could be good, but this Coalescent ward change has the potential too destroy it.
So I guess that leaves those in charge with a decision really, accept that those 'Gold sellers' & or mass lockbox openers actually were enabling players with an option for progression - was that so bad really? (don't get me wrong I hate the spam as much as anyone), but hey they made an expensive thing within reach for many and enabled people to feel like they were getting somewhere, without that you have an undesirable situation.
and 500 days for a perfect armour and weapon enchant, of course those aren't the only things you'll want to buy with AD. The $10 cost is equally bad. It baffles me how people can justify the decision unless they already have perfects and want the advantage over others. Obviously it takes longer with a higher zen exchange rate too.
Apples v Oranges. When Mod1 came and the CoWA rate changed, they also dramatically changed the number of wards needed. Less supply and less need for wards. That's probably why the price didn't shoot right up to the exchange rate at the time,despite dire predictions of 400k+ at the time.
And you've missed my suggested viewpoint: don't aim to buy the wards, aim to buy what you were going to make with them instead.
You could see it in action all the time since then; lots of Lesser Enchants for sale at prices noticeably lower than the CW prices at the time. The only way someone would list something so cheap is if their overhead cost was super low (ie: an invoc farmed ward).
I do (and think everyone would agree) think that the CW prices are a tad too high though. $5-6 would be a better price point for me; I might actually consider buying one then (I will never spend $10 on one ward).
I agree that a perfect enchantment should be just for people who do that, but I think a lesser or a normal enchant should be this expensive, and with the price of the wards going up I think the overall price of all those enchants will rise up to the sky too.
I think a good solution would be to not require a coal ward to make a lesser enchant (like making it a 25-50% chance instead of 1% and the the same for normal ones (maybe 10%? chance)
I've 4 60th level characters, all with a GS between 12 and high 13K. The only thing for me to do at this point, which is something I was looking forward to, is to improve my gear. Now that option, I personally feel, is out of reach. With the fact that most people require you to have a 14k+ GS for the top dungeon runs, and now little possibility I will be able to attain that in the future, why even bother?
Are you sure its 5% once per week? I've received a grand total of 1 coal ward from the coffer.
I would recommend finding some good people to run with. A decent guild will not judge you on your GS like that and will help you run to pickup gear. And you can also find random people who are happy to run with a good player; I recently grouped and friended a guy who likes to farm dungeons and doesn't really care what my GS is. Not an easy find, but people like that do exist out there.
$0.02
Sorry, but you missed my point. They are eliminating the options. One at a time. If everyone starts buying the enchants instead of wards, they'll just make the enchants account bound. Probably next module.
Their goal is to make money. I don't begrudge them this. Every game needs money to survive. But I strongly disagree with how they've chosen to do it. Forcing us to pay Zen for coal wards isn't the right path. (In my opinion of course.)
Silver lining... NW_Legit_Community does not require any particular gear score to join runs (and we discourage advertising what your GS is). We're a custom chat channel that connects friendly players that elect not to use cheats/exploits.
You can join by typing the following into the game chat:
/Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I'm sure that the company has already run statistical analyses that indicate that this one decision will not have an adverse impact on the amount of Zen being bought; however, I ask that the company consider the long-term impact of continuing to impose these kinds of restrictions. It really doesn't matter what the company's true intent is; what matters is how players perceive the decision. If the decision drives up the in-game pricing of an item, players are going to question the f2p aspect of the game. If players who are attracted to f2p aspect of the game begin to question this, then they will look for other games to play; meaning that if they do have money to spend, they will spend it to support another company's f2p model that they believe in.
Given that both cash and non-cash players equally support the game because cash players buy items from the Zen market, and then sell to non-cash players on the AH; I doubt it's really a wise move on the company's part to further restrict items from being sold on the AH. It will not only cause prices of these items to increase, and eventually tank in-game and Zen market demand, but it could eventually disillusion enough players to look for entertainment elsewhere.
This is pretty much what I'm predicting at this point , after what has started happening recently this wouldn't surprise me one bit , such a shame too considering the potential this game had.
Wow, that's a little too pessimistic for me, guys. Can't follow you down that 'sky is falling' road.
I'm not sure what their goal is. It can't be to make more money because it's one thing to increase costs by say 5-10%, it's another to increase costs by 100%. People are just not going to buy this stuff. It's not like instead of buying 2 they will buy 1, they are going to throw in the towel and not buy anything.
Think about how many people this will drive away and who will take 1 look and leave?
Think of the housing market. If you have a budget to look for say a 250K house, you *might* look at a 300k house or even a 350k but you won't even bother looking at a 1M house, it's just a waste of time.
Didn't mean to be pessimistic and having reread my post I don't see the bit that says the sky is falling , I'm not giving up in any case but they don't really have very much more of value they can bind at this point , lesser enchants will just take over from coal wards when the market settles down and may end up a reasonable price which isn't really a concern to myself but new players just starting are in for a expensive time.
Check out the math on Page 8 of this post (Post & Follow-Up Post). One of the Community Moderators pointed out that it will cost $300 for a new player to get perfect weapon and armor enchants. The vast majority of players will never be competitive with older players that achieved greater/perfect enchants at a far lower price. While that will not cause the game to fall apart, it will have a fairly substantial negative impact over the mid/long term.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
The market settling down, I think, will be a big factor here. It's very stressed right now and things look entirely outrageous. But this is also the worst possible scenario and there is only room for things to get 'better'.
Yes, I saw that. This is also the absolute worst the math/cost for a perfect can get; it can only get cheaper from here. The market needs time to settle down again and the prices will drop.
I did math based on the Zen Store Price. It won't get much better than that and certainly not to what is a reasonable cost. Players shouldn't be funneled into investing hundreds of dollars in time or real value into just a two items for each character and as long as PWE is trying to get a $10 price tag they will be.
We've been on that road since the invoking nerf. Some people refuse to look up and see it. 4 points...
1. The invoking nerf didn't reduce the amount of coal wards. It just shifted their source from players with tons of characters (like me) to players who play the lockbox lottery. BTW that is why the price didn't change drastically then.
2. Ever since that nerf and the enchanting system update they've run multiple promotions trying to get people to buy enchanting stuff from the zen shop. Despite everyone telling them how worthless the stuff is, they are pushing this junk hard.
3. This change truly reduces the amount of coal wards. The lockbox addicts may very well start trying to sell enchants instead. Though they could just use the bars for something else.
4. But think about it. Why would they do this change? What possible purpose could it be other than forcing players to buy coal wards from the zen shop? And if that is their intent, then they will eventually plug the loophole of selling the finished enchant.
I can't help but feel this is the wrong direction. They could put things int he shop people want to buy. Rather than forcing us to buy things we don't.
1. Yes it did; the drop rate was reduced = less supply.
3. What else does the T bar merchant sell that's of value and not BoP?
4. I don't know what the purpose of the change is. Not going to speculate on that or assume nefarious intentions.
This, I expect the community population to fall off sharply after people start to feel the repercussions.....