Of course Cryptic's first priority is to make money. it's a company, that's what companies do for a living.
Not every company puts money immediately before making a stable game and making changes for the benefit of players who will then want to actually support the game. Stop trying to justify blatant greed.
Whether you agree or disagree with this change, what your feelings towards said change may be...it isn't for me or the rest of the mod team to decide. However...we do have rules in place prohibiting discussion of Pay to Win, threatening to quit, making allusions that you will be quitting, ultimatums, etc...and those rules are still in force.
Therefore, if your post consists of anything mentioned in those prohibited topics, kindly leave that out of your post,else your post will be moderated in accordance with those rules. Thank you.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
I'm not defending PWE or cryptic. I really disagree with what they just did. but expecting a company to have other frist priority but money is just delusional. Of course most times, in order to get money they have to give a good service, if not they loose customers and therefore money, but money will always, always be the first priority in a company.
They probably need a lot of cash to help push out the next module that they have 3 months to get out ( probably not their choice either considering how little time they have ) ,of course they need lots of cash xD
I'm not defending PWE or cryptic. I really disagree with what they just did. but expecting a company to have other frist priority but money is just delusional. Of course most times, in order to get money they have to give a good service, if not they loose customers and therefore money, but money will always, always be the first priority in a company.
This is a lot more complicated than just that. For starters, even if for arguments sake they make more money off of this, the player base will contract. That is bad for existing players and bad for the future outlook of profits. The second aspect to look at is will they really even make more money off of this? You can put your house up for sale for $5M but that doesn't mean anyone will be buying it. Personally, I have the enchants I need and at these prices just don't see myself ever buying more.
The biggest problem that I see is that new players will take one look at the costs to get enchants and will be gone and never come back. In fact, I think a lot of existing players that were still working on leveling up enchants just might throw in the towel now as well. Hell, I don't even need more enchants right now and this type of move has me questioning my motivation to stick with these guys.
I'm not defending PWE or cryptic. I really disagree with what they just did. but expecting a company to have other frist priority but money is just delusional. Of course most times, in order to get money they have to give a good service, if not they loose customers and therefore money, but money will always, always be the first priority in a company.
The argument that it being a cash grab decision is that it's at the expense of the players rather than something for the players in which they would be then supporting the company. Companies wanting money goes without saying, but that doesn't mean that it can't be argued when a company appears to make greedy decisions that some other companies wouldn't dare to screw their customers like that.
0
cprnMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2014
I wouldnt care about this change if the game would be fun and lag free, but when you provide crappy service and expect to be rewarded for it then whatever remaining players you got will complain.
Let's assume that Neverwinter Online is a long term 20th Fox Century Movie....
20th Fox invests "random number" of dollars to make the movie.
When the movie comes out and before it, 20th Fox will do everything to get as much income as possible....
The same happens with any F2P MMO. A company that payed for the game does NOT care for the "longevity" of the MMO. What they care about is to invest "random number" of dollars and in the end receive "random number"x1000 dollars.
It's simple as that. The ways to do it are many, but 99% of companies prefer to do it the fast way = milking the cow.
Have fun,
Almondum.
Note: All references to companies and dollars are intended to present a general behaviour of the Global MMO market and not a specific entity.
At least 500k zen is being sold every day. And that's a very conservative estimate. It's probably closer to 1mill.
Also many people don't sell Zen after buying it for $ but rather use it on keys and etc.
So... Cryptic makes 10-20 k $ a day, and likely more.
They are still not happy.
0
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
Now they just made coalescent wards even harder to get. You'd have to invest quite a bit of money or a whooole lot of diamonds to get one enchantment now.
I knew this pattern was coming as soon as it was confirmed they decreased the coal ward drop rate from the 7 day.
Well, it would be really good if they added 10% or at least 5% percent chance to create lesser enchantment with just preservation wards.
The way the things are now it's just unfair to the new players IMO
Just to add my standpoint,where i live, it is a poor country, we are happy to be able to play, or some days it comes as a gift from parents or ourselves-, if we work-, that we can put a few euros in to the game. I understand the company too, they need an income, it is totally ok to me, but this time they gone a bit too far.
We have a phrase here in Hungary: they didn't see the wood from the tree. Sure money rules, but it makes things this way only counter productive. By having to mainly buy coalescent trough them is sure a huge income for them, but taking out the opportunity to buy it from other players who don't need them, was a good choice, now look at the prices, everything which is somehow related to a ward, it has or will rocket high regarding prices.
And to take out the manipulators from AH this isn't the right way, it would have been better to set a minimum or maximum limit for prices and so no room for manipulations.
I could make a decent GF from a lot of in-game work and a bit of money, now with my new toon i will never be able to make an even half way good char, just look at the prices now!
Money and time entirely wasted on GF (sorry my little dwarf (: ) and now very hard way to develop a good char.
Bye!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I.M.O., new players will decide being competitive is out of reach and move on. Not just because of this alone. The price of goods in general have risen dramatically. If I started playing today, I probably would move on after about a week.
I will not move on and they know it, there will always be players, who love this game, but yes i will never have a chance to come close to anyone, who plays the game much longer, due to the very high prices and i don't have the chance or will to relate back to my mum's credit card! Sad very sad development!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
0
katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
Coalescent Ward are 1000z in the Zen market - they always have been.
All anyone needs to do is to look at the Zen Exchanges and multiply the current best rate by 1000 to determine the Astral Diamond cost of the the blue ward. Hence, at 500/1 exchange rate the Blue Coalescent Ward will cost 500,000 AD. if it sells for this in the AH then buy it.
However, when the exchange rate drops to 400/1 then that is too high a price, because it will cost 400,000 AD. This makes the 500,000 AD Auction House version too expensive. So you convert AD, then buy the Coalescent Ward from Zen Market (which is always UNBOUND), then sell it at AH for 500,000 because too many people aren't even thinking about converting AD to Zen to buy it more cheaply at Zen market.
BOOM! 1000 AD Profit.
-shrugs-
I have not, nor will I ever spend 1000 Zen on a Coal Ward. That price along with the nerfs to the invocation drop and the Tradebar tweak are the reasons why Coal Wards and enchants are now priced through the roof.
Cryptic last saw a Zen purchase from me in December. Fortunately I have enough Zen left over to buy two more respec tokens. And that was another Montreal screw job on us, new paragon path for the HR and drastic changes to the GWF's paragon trees yet no free respec.
These guys won't see another dime from me until they stop taking us for mugs.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
0
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I have not, nor will I ever spend 1000 Zen on a Coal Ward. That price along with the nerfs to the invocation drop and the Tradebar tweak are the reasons why Coal Wards and enchants are now priced through the roof.
Cryptic last saw a Zen purchase from me in December. Fortunately I have enough Zen left over to buy two more respec tokens. And that was another Montreal screw job on us, new paragon path for the HR and drastic changes to the GWF's paragon trees yet no free respec.
These guys won't see another dime from me until they stop taking us for mugs.
thats been my standing for a long time. the more they want to try and funnel coal wards, the more I'm gonna be holding back my wallet. I've been not agreeing with the marketing they've been doing for some time now, and the game changes they've been making because of said marketing.
This is a serious punch to the gut. I've really been enjoying Neverwinter lately and really enjoy the mod 3 stuff. I even started up a 4th character. This kind of severe anti-player change really throws me for a loop. The only way this announcement could have been any worse would be for it to be accompanied by an increase in the maximum ad:zen ratio on the exchange. Don't be surprised if that happens in the next couple of weeks. I recently just put some more cash into the game to get the wardog pack. Money that I really should have spent elsewhere. Even though the crappy arc system charged me double, even though the pack didn't show up without customer service help, and even though that help was slow and tedious to acquire, I was still excited to be playing the game every night. Tonight I don't feel like playing anymore. I don't know if I'll stop altogether or what, but right now, my heart just isn't in it anymore.
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
edited May 2014
I'm very glad to see two moderators taking a stand that this change is harmful to the game.
I agree that pricing Coalescent Wards at about USD 2.50 is a reasonable price point.
I enjoy the game but of late things have been made more difficult than necessary. The Coalescent Wards is but just one of the issues. I used to buy/trade for keys with the hope of getting something of value, but lately buying keys is useless cause I only get stuff not worth even half the key's price in Zen or converted to AD. Trading for coalescent wards made it worth while though and now they took that option away as well. What next. Are they becoming the next Microsoft????? :mad:
This is a serious punch to the gut. I've really been enjoying Neverwinter lately and really enjoy the mod 3 stuff. I even started up a 4th character. This kind of severe anti-player change really throws me for a loop. The only way this announcement could have been any worse would be for it to be accompanied by an increase in the maximum ad:zen ratio on the exchange. Don't be surprised if that happens in the next couple of weeks. I recently just put some more cash into the game to get the wardog pack. Money that I really should have spent elsewhere. Even though the crappy arc system charged me double, even though the pack didn't show up without customer service help, and even though that help was slow and tedious to acquire, I was still excited to be playing the game every night. Tonight I don't feel like playing anymore. I don't know if I'll stop altogether or what, but right now, my heart just isn't in it anymore.
I know the feeling. I had big plans for one of my toons, would've entailed buying many new enchants, but it isn't happening now because of this latest patch.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
0
firkraaqMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 16Arc User
The only enchants that are not affected too much: Plaguefire, Tenebrous, Tranquility, Bronzewood. The rest are skyrocketing anyway. 30 more minutes more and lets grab any perfects under 7k. I think there are only a few guys that can do these major buy out, better buy some before they do, easy AD gain.
Soon those prices will go up as well, especially the Plagues. Why keep Plague prices low when you can just drive it up knowing full well that people will now see it is a cheap alternative? Lesser Terrors are now 400k, why sell a lesser Plaguefire for any less?
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I already spend over 1.000 Dollar to play Neverwinter in a time period of an year which means I spend 85 to 100 Dollar per month for this game. I am willing to spend so much money in this game because I think of it as a hobby.
Most of the money I spend on companions and to customize my gears look and open some Chests from time to time out of fun (and bad habbit). I only have one main character (a rogue) and still only have rank 8 enchantments and mighty vorpal and mighty soulforge.
*
What do I want to say?
You are killing this game because of your greed and you killing MY hobby! You saw (over a year) that no one want to buy this ward for 1.000 Zen, instead lower the price or make an cheap bundle pack you are forcing the players bit by bit to buy it for the price.
I understand that you must make money like every other company in the world too. But instead to give us something that we want to spend money (more transmutation items (not clothing), dye, companions, a bit lower prices to upgrade companions, etc.) you force us to spend on primary/basics aspects of the game.
Now you are killing this game, because new players are shocked by the price that they must spend and old players that see no option to upgrade there characters.
I mean you only can earn Astral diamonds with refining, all free drop items are worthless since this “mysterious bug” that occurred in spellplague and dread vault. You are killing the economy in Neverwinter and if the economy dies the game will die.
*
If you want to keep your players you need more sandbox content that keep them interested in the game itself. The new upgrade system for enchantments and artifacts is a good one (but stretching it articial is it not). To get additional Power Points by leveling past 60 is an option too (that I really like).
*
Now you need some primary tasks for the games that they want to play. Dungeons and Foundrys for the PvE Players are nice, but at current state pretty lame. Dungeons are always the same and the rewards of Foundrys do not really exist.
I liked the way of the Dungeons by Respens Game. To include some minor random tasks was freshening and a nice detail. Why not in the normal/epic Dungeons? Why not gathering some kind of artifact shards in the foundry chest to get a special foundry artifact or one of the three basic artifacts?
Why not building something like a personal story, with some kind of dialogue options? I know that is a bit of a work (writing storys myself) but you must only build it one time and can leave different endings and “happenings”.
*
The PvP in the current condition is okey, but I miss guild pvp and DIFFERENT maps. You only give us this capture the flags…
*
And if you want free and easy content that doesn’t cost you a cent, give us an editor to make own game mods. Look at other popular games. They are creating whole different games/maps and keep these games alive!
*o
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
I wish it was 5%. Sample data indicate that it is actually roughly 2.5%.
Which sample data are you looking at? a guy who used to visit the forum a lot did a whole bunch of RNG tests and came up with about 3.2% coal drop rate from coffers but if the drop rate has fallen again the wiki page needs updating.
thats been my standing for a long time. the more they want to try and funnel coal wards, the more I'm gonna be holding back my wallet. I've been not agreeing with the marketing they've been doing for some time now, and the game changes they've been making because of said marketing.
Yep, that's just it. Some of us are happy to spend on a discretionary basis- on something that is a fun pastime. That's fine when you decide how much you can/want to spend. However, this exercise in frog boiling is possibly counter-productive. It potentially mandates a high minimum spending level to keep up. Even people who could afford it might not want to. Having to spend lots of money for things to stay viable (rather than having it as an option for the lazy or time-poor), rather than choosing to spend money on cool-looking fluff is a surprisingly large change, and could leave a bad taste in the mouth.
This is obviously upsetting a lot of folks right now. I don't envy the moderators of this forum at all- have a care when you have a rant that they're stuck with this, and not only have to be careful what they say but clean up our mess.
These are the days of miracles and wonders.
0
khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited May 2014
What is really the difference between 2.5% and 3.2%? To me it's none. I haven't got a Coalescent Ward since they dropped the rate with M2. It might as well be a 0% chance.
It seems PW has one way and one way only to do business. I've seen the same thing happen to Jade Dynasty, another one of PW's games - same high prices, same impossible RNG lottery <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and blatant pay to win cash-shop. I gave up on that game a long time ago. By the looks of it PW is dragging Neverwinter down the same path. I love Neverwinter, but I will give up on it without giving it a second. This is not a threat, it's just how I feel about what is going on in Neverwinter right now.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
Comments
You can price yourself right out of the market too and that is what I think they just did.
Whether you agree or disagree with this change, what your feelings towards said change may be...it isn't for me or the rest of the mod team to decide. However...we do have rules in place prohibiting discussion of Pay to Win, threatening to quit, making allusions that you will be quitting, ultimatums, etc...and those rules are still in force.
Therefore, if your post consists of anything mentioned in those prohibited topics, kindly leave that out of your post,else your post will be moderated in accordance with those rules. Thank you.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
This is a lot more complicated than just that. For starters, even if for arguments sake they make more money off of this, the player base will contract. That is bad for existing players and bad for the future outlook of profits. The second aspect to look at is will they really even make more money off of this? You can put your house up for sale for $5M but that doesn't mean anyone will be buying it. Personally, I have the enchants I need and at these prices just don't see myself ever buying more.
The biggest problem that I see is that new players will take one look at the costs to get enchants and will be gone and never come back. In fact, I think a lot of existing players that were still working on leveling up enchants just might throw in the towel now as well. Hell, I don't even need more enchants right now and this type of move has me questioning my motivation to stick with these guys.
The argument that it being a cash grab decision is that it's at the expense of the players rather than something for the players in which they would be then supporting the company. Companies wanting money goes without saying, but that doesn't mean that it can't be argued when a company appears to make greedy decisions that some other companies wouldn't dare to screw their customers like that.
Let's assume that Neverwinter Online is a long term 20th Fox Century Movie....
20th Fox invests "random number" of dollars to make the movie.
When the movie comes out and before it, 20th Fox will do everything to get as much income as possible....
The same happens with any F2P MMO. A company that payed for the game does NOT care for the "longevity" of the MMO. What they care about is to invest "random number" of dollars and in the end receive "random number"x1000 dollars.
It's simple as that. The ways to do it are many, but 99% of companies prefer to do it the fast way = milking the cow.
Have fun,
Almondum.
Note: All references to companies and dollars are intended to present a general behaviour of the Global MMO market and not a specific entity.
Also many people don't sell Zen after buying it for $ but rather use it on keys and etc.
So... Cryptic makes 10-20 k $ a day, and likely more.
They are still not happy.
I knew this pattern was coming as soon as it was confirmed they decreased the coal ward drop rate from the 7 day.
The way the things are now it's just unfair to the new players IMO
WTB Class Reroll please
Just to add my standpoint,where i live, it is a poor country, we are happy to be able to play, or some days it comes as a gift from parents or ourselves-, if we work-, that we can put a few euros in to the game. I understand the company too, they need an income, it is totally ok to me, but this time they gone a bit too far.
We have a phrase here in Hungary: they didn't see the wood from the tree. Sure money rules, but it makes things this way only counter productive. By having to mainly buy coalescent trough them is sure a huge income for them, but taking out the opportunity to buy it from other players who don't need them, was a good choice, now look at the prices, everything which is somehow related to a ward, it has or will rocket high regarding prices.
And to take out the manipulators from AH this isn't the right way, it would have been better to set a minimum or maximum limit for prices and so no room for manipulations.
I could make a decent GF from a lot of in-game work and a bit of money, now with my new toon i will never be able to make an even half way good char, just look at the prices now!
Money and time entirely wasted on GF (sorry my little dwarf (: ) and now very hard way to develop a good char.
Bye!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I will not move on and they know it, there will always be players, who love this game, but yes i will never have a chance to come close to anyone, who plays the game much longer, due to the very high prices and i don't have the chance or will to relate back to my mum's credit card! Sad very sad development!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I have not, nor will I ever spend 1000 Zen on a Coal Ward. That price along with the nerfs to the invocation drop and the Tradebar tweak are the reasons why Coal Wards and enchants are now priced through the roof.
Cryptic last saw a Zen purchase from me in December. Fortunately I have enough Zen left over to buy two more respec tokens. And that was another Montreal screw job on us, new paragon path for the HR and drastic changes to the GWF's paragon trees yet no free respec.
These guys won't see another dime from me until they stop taking us for mugs.
thats been my standing for a long time. the more they want to try and funnel coal wards, the more I'm gonna be holding back my wallet. I've been not agreeing with the marketing they've been doing for some time now, and the game changes they've been making because of said marketing.
I agree that pricing Coalescent Wards at about USD 2.50 is a reasonable price point.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
I know the feeling. I had big plans for one of my toons, would've entailed buying many new enchants, but it isn't happening now because of this latest patch.
Soon those prices will go up as well, especially the Plagues. Why keep Plague prices low when you can just drive it up knowing full well that people will now see it is a cheap alternative? Lesser Terrors are now 400k, why sell a lesser Plaguefire for any less?
I wish it was 5%. Sample data indicate that it is actually roughly 2.5%.
Most of the money I spend on companions and to customize my gears look and open some Chests from time to time out of fun (and bad habbit). I only have one main character (a rogue) and still only have rank 8 enchantments and mighty vorpal and mighty soulforge.
*
What do I want to say?
You are killing this game because of your greed and you killing MY hobby! You saw (over a year) that no one want to buy this ward for 1.000 Zen, instead lower the price or make an cheap bundle pack you are forcing the players bit by bit to buy it for the price.
I understand that you must make money like every other company in the world too. But instead to give us something that we want to spend money (more transmutation items (not clothing), dye, companions, a bit lower prices to upgrade companions, etc.) you force us to spend on primary/basics aspects of the game.
Now you are killing this game, because new players are shocked by the price that they must spend and old players that see no option to upgrade there characters.
I mean you only can earn Astral diamonds with refining, all free drop items are worthless since this “mysterious bug” that occurred in spellplague and dread vault. You are killing the economy in Neverwinter and if the economy dies the game will die.
*
If you want to keep your players you need more sandbox content that keep them interested in the game itself. The new upgrade system for enchantments and artifacts is a good one (but stretching it articial is it not). To get additional Power Points by leveling past 60 is an option too (that I really like).
*
Now you need some primary tasks for the games that they want to play. Dungeons and Foundrys for the PvE Players are nice, but at current state pretty lame. Dungeons are always the same and the rewards of Foundrys do not really exist.
I liked the way of the Dungeons by Respens Game. To include some minor random tasks was freshening and a nice detail. Why not in the normal/epic Dungeons? Why not gathering some kind of artifact shards in the foundry chest to get a special foundry artifact or one of the three basic artifacts?
Why not building something like a personal story, with some kind of dialogue options? I know that is a bit of a work (writing storys myself) but you must only build it one time and can leave different endings and “happenings”.
*
The PvP in the current condition is okey, but I miss guild pvp and DIFFERENT maps. You only give us this capture the flags…
*
And if you want free and easy content that doesn’t cost you a cent, give us an editor to make own game mods. Look at other popular games. They are creating whole different games/maps and keep these games alive!
*o
Which sample data are you looking at? a guy who used to visit the forum a lot did a whole bunch of RNG tests and came up with about 3.2% coal drop rate from coffers but if the drop rate has fallen again the wiki page needs updating.
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/RNG_Tests#Coffer_of_Wondrous_Augmentation
Yep, that's just it. Some of us are happy to spend on a discretionary basis- on something that is a fun pastime. That's fine when you decide how much you can/want to spend. However, this exercise in frog boiling is possibly counter-productive. It potentially mandates a high minimum spending level to keep up. Even people who could afford it might not want to. Having to spend lots of money for things to stay viable (rather than having it as an option for the lazy or time-poor), rather than choosing to spend money on cool-looking fluff is a surprisingly large change, and could leave a bad taste in the mouth.
This is obviously upsetting a lot of folks right now. I don't envy the moderators of this forum at all- have a care when you have a rant that they're stuck with this, and not only have to be careful what they say but clean up our mess.
These are the days of miracles and wonders.
It seems PW has one way and one way only to do business. I've seen the same thing happen to Jade Dynasty, another one of PW's games - same high prices, same impossible RNG lottery <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and blatant pay to win cash-shop. I gave up on that game a long time ago. By the looks of it PW is dragging Neverwinter down the same path. I love Neverwinter, but I will give up on it without giving it a second. This is not a threat, it's just how I feel about what is going on in Neverwinter right now.